ArcoBlood Mod Finished

TheSelfishGene · #1 March 24th, 2005, 02:31 PM

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The_Tauren13 said:

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Scott Hebert said:
And for those who want to know why Blood magic per se sickens me, it is the fact that you are sacrificing another person's life for your own ends. As such, it is a supreme act of selfishness, which is evil.

Ah, human lives are overrated; over 100 people die each minute. Who knows, death may even be better than life...
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Dude, like, your right! So, you hop on the alter first. K?

Yes i am troll bait

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quantum_mechani · #2 March 24th, 2005, 02:55 PM

Sacred and holy do not imply 'good' to me, merely that they are extremely devoted to thier religion.

hmm... now the only thing this thread is missing is norfleet...

Scott Hebert · #3 March 24th, 2005, 03:16 PM

While my personal views are, I gather, quite unpopular here in this forum, I do try to keep them separate from games I play. I thought this would be obvious on my view of blood magic vis-a-vis the fact that I just published (for lack of a better term) a mod that converts a nation in Dominions into using Blood Magic.

BTW, Gene, I like your response. If you're referring to something you sacrifice things on, it's 'altar'.

For those that find that the words 'sacred' and 'holy' do not necessarily connote goodness, I pose the question as to why you can only desecrate and profane what is holy, if holy is not good.

Checking dictionary.com:

Unholy - Wicked; immoral

Wicked is evil, right? Unholy is also the defining antonym of Holy, right? Therefore, if Unholy is evil, Holy is good, right?

*shrugs* But then I guess the counter-argument is that every religion declares itself holy and its opponents unholy/wicked/evil. My issue is that this is not true, with Satanists being the most obvious example.

Ah well. As I said, my personal views I'm sure are quite unpopular here.

Grey · #4 March 24th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Actually Scott no matter how unpopular it may seem to you, your personal 'real' world view is valid. In fact it is most likely closer to my 'real' world view since I find real sacrifice and real attempts at magic to be evil.

Luckily (+3 scale) for me, I enjoy the game for what it is - a game which is not real nor serious. Unluckily (-3 scale) for me it looks like my very first post came at the very wrong time, since I did not see Quantum's post until after I posted. I have lurked for a couple of month's now after having discovered this wonderful game so I know some of the reference to Norfleet - enough to know that I am not Norfleet but everyone else may be. Boy with a +3 and a -3 I must have my turmoil setting too high.

With regards to the holy/unholy definition Merriam-Webster Online defines "Unholy" as "1. showing disregard for what is holy. Wicked" and defines "Holy" as several things but for the game the third defn. is most appropriate "devoted entirely to the diety or the work of the diety". I personally do not prefer to play blood nations since I find it distasteful (no pun intended), but I do not mind it in the game since it is just a game. Plus I get the opportunity to beat down those pretenders who use it, which is why I thank you for your mod.

Finally to not be a hypocrite... please hook me up to the generator my capacitance is reaching max.

Scott Hebert · #5 March 24th, 2005, 04:15 PM

*chuckles* Nah. It's cool. If anyone here is a hypocrite, it's me.

As for the validity of my worldview, I thank you for that, but it's not important whether it is or not. And, if by that, you would say that any personal worldview is valid, I would disagree with that strongly.

atul · #6 March 24th, 2005, 04:49 PM

I think it's a real pity there isn't any other species capable of communicating abstract thoughts we humans would know of. As it is, we're incapable of understanding relationships between intelligent species. Take this discussion about evilness of blood races, for example.

Abysians sacrifice human females. Since they are a species of lava-people with only a superficial resemblance to humans (they're even made of something other than meat), it's a bit like we using bunnies for cosmetic study.

Jotuns sacrifice human females. Well, we use chimps and other closely related species for our own good, and how many actively think it's evil?

Vanheim gave up blood long ago, but the memory remains. Sure, situational ethics, but nothing like classical Evil...

(and so on)

And as to Holy, I think the personal belief and devotion angle is the most believeable one, especially since no pretender can achieve holy status (IIRC that was fixed around patch 2.06 or so

). And defining something by saying what they are not (UNholy) is a bit vague, especially since hardly anyone outside bad fantasy thinks of him/herself as evil/unholy or anything...

quantum_mechani · #7 March 24th, 2005, 05:01 PM

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Grey said:
real attempts at magic to be evil.

Erm, evil? 'silly', I might say, but who are those people really harming?

BigDaddy · #8 March 24th, 2005, 06:56 PM

Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls.

I bet your religion has a similar teaching. . .

quantum_mechani · #9 March 24th, 2005, 07:33 PM

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BigDaddy said:
Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls.

I bet your religion has a similar teaching. . .

Actually, no. I'm not even nominally the member of any religion (or even an atheist). But calling people who try to practice magic 'evil' and getting upset over it seems even sillier than the people themselves.

Scott Hebert · #10 March 24th, 2005, 08:39 PM

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BigDaddy said:
Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls.

Actually, to be just a little more specific, Catholic theology frowns on the practice of magic, as you cannot be sure that the source of the supernatural power is NOT demonic in nature.

Catholic theology has remarkably little to say about what might be out there, in a supernatural sense.

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I bet your religion has a similar teaching. . .

I don't think this was directed at me, per se, but for the record, my religion IS Roman Catholicism.