Scales You Should Never Take?

[Xietor]

drain 2 is only -1 research, which is why it is a good deal for some races that do no not depend on magic for survival.

[Tuidjy]

I play most of my games with Order3, Sloth2-3, Temp 1 off, Growth 1, Misfortune 3,
Drain 2 or Magic 1. I cannot complain of my results :-)

Right now I am subbing for someone who took growth 3. Late in the game, I am
enjoying the income, but I know that there is nothing I can do if someone
decides to hit me with population killing spells. I firmly believe that
growth and death should influence population killers in the same way that
temperature and magic influence other spells.

[CUnknown]

Wow, great idea Tuidjy. Growth should definitely lessen the effect of the black deaths, blights, etc. That would be awesome. Growth could use a boost too, and that one makes perfect sense.

[OmikronWarrior]

Order-3, Growth-3, heat/cold-0 are the gold maximizing scales. Taking additional hot/cold nets you -5% gold, which ain't good. Especially considering Order usually accompanies Misfortune causing fixed income losses (200 gold to repair vital equipment!). Meaning, thinking in terms of margins, the felt effect is more than just 5%.

Combining Turmoil, Misfortune, and Death is suicide. I doubt you'll be able to go 6 turns with out recruiting becoming impossible at your home province. Death and Misfortune is pretty bad itself even with order, but the effects might be delayed longer to let you get set up.

As for magic and drain, yes the largest effect these scales will have on your game is on your research. However, keep in mind magic scales also effect MR and spell casting fatigue. If you're up against LA Ermor, it might be worthwhile to consider magic scales for the sole purpose of making his undead units easier to banish.

[Sir_Dr_D]

people say to always use order 3 misfortune 2, or else luck 3, turmoil 3. But I I am using order 3 and luck 3 in a current game, and have found the combination quite effective.

[Endoperez]

Order/Luck is very good, but also very expensive. Most nations have trouble getting the points for it.

[Omnirizon]

are there any side effects to taking heat/cold scales (besides what's listed: - gold/supplies)

If you take 3 heat/cold to fund 3 order + growth (split up however you like), you will make a net gain in gold (especially considering the growth scale over the long run) and break even or just under on supplies. On top of that, taking 3 heat/cold is really only like taking 2.5 heat/cold (giving you a .5 scale in points worth) because half the time that scale doesn't match dominion, so if it is already maxed out in your dominion, you get the points for it but it will never randomly (or by seasons, whatever) go higher than three; and will often the time be under three (thus you only take a 2.5 effects worth of negative scale for 3 scales worth of points).

Unless there is some unstated side effect to having a very high heat/cold, this just seems like a no-brainer to take.

[Wick]

OmikronWarrior said:
Taking additional hot/cold nets you -5% gold, which ain't good.

Remember summer, winter, and that the scale is capped at 3. Taking your base temperature is -2.5%, one scale adds -2.5%, subsequent but not capped scales are -5% each, and the capped scale is -3.75%, unless it's also the first in which case it's just -1.25%! Being one scale off is usually a good idea.

[Corwin]

I often take Misfortune 3 Order 3 scales. I won about 30%-40% of MP Dominions games I've played over the last few years. Misfortune 3 is not really as scary as many people believe, and sometimes you can even turn it to your advantage.

[Xietor]

I have to disagree with the fast expansion theory in mp games. I think steady expansion may be better. If you top the chart in provinces, you are often torn apart by the dog pile.

And fast expansion with poor defenses really means nothing as you can lose those provinces fairly easily. In a 10+ mp game, the longterm income you throw away by taking death rather than growth is significant.

There is a chart someone made that had the turn when 3 growth provided as much income as 3 order. forget the turn number, but it was not super high.

And I never take an awake pretender(though i am picky of the races i play too), though i will only take an imprisoned one if i am playing a good bless nation. With a sleeping pretender there is almost never a need to take d sclaes.