Conceptual Content Mod

[Sombre]

MA Arcoscephale
Slingers based on Rhodes?
Archers based on cretans?

MA Mictlan
Recruitable atlatl (double range jav) armed infantry
Serpent/snake warrior sacreds? With poison res obviously

MA Eriu
Firbolg Fian – heroic elite firbolg with forest survival, standard (3), javs/melee
Gallowglass – foreign humans with axe + heavyish armour
Milisian kern – armed with darts (lighter javs with longer range)

MA Man
Forester recruitable – hatchet, dagger, shortbow, medium armour, forest survival, patrolbonus 1, stealth, animal awe 0/1 (also give animal awe to forester leader). Backstory is that they were formed to protect Man from invaders, brigands, rampaging animals and beasts, as well as raid the enemy to pre-empt attacks. A real all-rounder with no great strength or weakness.
Possibly wolfhounds? Non stealthy, patrolbonus 1, +1 supply, forestsurvival, similar stats to wolf. Could be summoned by a commander, recruitable, or a nature summon.

MA Marignon
Justicar – religious guards/police with fire res, good armour, mace + shield (sacred or not?) wear robes of their religious order over their armour

MA Machaka
Cheaper sacred troop? Leopard / Hyena warrior cults might be interesting, but anything sacred would certainly have to be related to spiders

MA Caelum
A hybrid missile / melee troop of some sort – might actually be used well by AI if given ammo of 2 or 3 – will fire off all ammo then attack

MA Ulm
Arbalest+tower shield ‘pavise’ unit?
Ulmish ‘Militia’ – very different from most militia, expected to hold off enemies until the slow moving regular Ulmish forces can arrive, so have to be less crap. Medium armour and halberds – even have fort def bonus of 1. All for a low gold price and (relative to other ulmish) low resources too.



EA Tirnanog
Attacotti berserker – A primitive tribe of naked berserk cannibals released in battle by the tuatha – they are like gladiators in that they are usable for only one battle?
Chariot – light/small, driver+jav chucker, not a trampler?



Spell ideas


A fireball that when it lands summons a small fire elemental – could be an excellent spell for abysia

Marignon – a holy/fire advanced version of bonds of fire – trial of fire, test of faith etc – can also throw in a panic effect or fear effect for extra synergy

W/D – Chilling bolt – frost bolt + fear effect, high prec

Spells that immobilise + cloud effects. You could have bonds of fire + sulfur cloud, tangle vines + leeching darkness (could be a great one for pangaea)


Earth gem using teleport spell – Agartha?

Battlefield wide resist elements – TC?

[Drysh]

I made this for EA Mictlan, but maybe it would fit MA too. A were jaguar (commander). I gave him the ability to shapechange at will into a jaguar. The description: "Some Jaguar Warriors remain forever in their half-jaguar form and loose their ability to turn back to human form. These rare warriors are taken to the temple and trained as priests and leaders to command the other Jaguar Warriors. They may shapechange at will into a true jaguar, and use this ability when they need to be stealthy."

[Wrana]

MA Arcoscephale
Slingers based on Rhodes?
Archers based on cretans?

Unfortunately slings have crap stats in Dom3. So while Greeks certainly had very effective slingers, in game terms these would have to have very high precision to compensate, which in turn would require them to be very costly for missilers (or they'll have to have somewhat better slings?). They can have shields, however... Elite archers should probably be capital only. Maybe it would be better to make something like RTW "heavy peltasts" which could actually hold their own in melee?

MA Mictlan
Recruitable atlatl (double range jav) armed infantry
Serpent/snake warrior sacreds? With poison res obviously

Atlatl would be fine, especially if they have more ammo also. And why do you not like Crocodiles (snake themed sacreds are present in C'tis, after all)?

MA Eriu
Firbolg Fian – heroic elite firbolg with forest survival, standard (3), javs/melee
Gallowglass – foreign humans with axe + heavyish armour
Milisian kern – armed with darts (lighter javs with longer range)

Honestly I don't like the latter two. And why don't you want to include chariots here instead of EA???

Possibly wolfhounds? Non stealthy, patrolbonus 1, +1 supply, forestsurvival, similar stats to wolf. Could be summoned by a commander, recruitable, or a nature summon.

They should be a little better than wolf - they are selected as wolf-hunters, after all...

Marignon – a holy/fire advanced version of bonds of fire – trial of fire, test of faith etc – can also throw in a panic effect or fear effect for extra synergy

That's excellent! While cloud+immobilisation would probably be too much. Unless it's for high level?

Earth gem using teleport spell – Agartha?

Fine idea, but probably would have to be of somewhat higher level than normal Teleport...

Battlefield wide resist elements – TC?

Probably Ulm too?

I made this for EA Mictlan, but maybe it would fit MA too. A were jaguar (commander). I gave him the ability to shapechange at will into a jaguar.

This I think a neat idea.
Another thought on MA Mictlan (probably C'tis as well) - is a spell which releases an arrow & then summons a snake at the point of contact possible? With a low-level making 1 arrow-snake & high-level many, similar to Vine Arrow/Storm of Thorns?

[Sombre]

Unfortunately slings have crap stats in Dom3. So while Greeks certainly had very effective slingers, in game terms these would have to have very high precision to compensate, which in turn would require them to be very costly for missilers (or they'll have to have somewhat better slings?). They can have shields, however... Elite archers should probably be capital only. Maybe it would be better to make something like RTW "heavy peltasts" which could actually hold their own in melee?

I think I'd pay a bit more gold for slingers with high prec and a few other stat boosts. Obviously they'd be a niche unit - anti low prot troops. They could deal slightly more damage with their slings, reflecting either increased accuracy or better quality of stones. Another major advantage would be 2 mapmove, since they aren't 'militia'.

And why do you not like Crocodiles (snake themed sacreds are present in C'tis, after all)?

I suggest snake themed sacreds because MA Mictlan is based around flying snakes and has a serpent sacred national summon. Crocodiles just don't seem to come into it.

Honestly I don't like the latter two. And why don't you want to include chariots here instead of EA???

Because chariots were present in the early history of Irish warfare and in Dom3 are generally an EA thing.

They should be a little better than wolf - they are selected as wolf-hunters, after all...

Dogs used to hunt wolves would obviously outnumber them. They were also used to hunt bears.

Probably Ulm too?

TC are masters of the elements. Ulm aren't even close to that.

Another thought on MA Mictlan (probably C'tis as well) - is a spell which releases an arrow & then summons a snake at the point of contact possible? With a low-level making 1 arrow-snake & high-level many, similar to Vine Arrow/Storm of Thorns?

Probably possible and a nice idea. I tink I'd make it a poison arrow rather than a tangle arrow though.

[Wrana]

They could deal slightly more damage with their slings, reflecting either increased accuracy or better quality of stones. Another major advantage would be 2 mapmove, since they aren't 'militia'.

Professional slingers used lead (or even sometimes bronze) bullets made in a form. Description may mention this as a justification... 2 mapmove would be certainly very useful, I've forgot about it.

I suggest snake themed sacreds because MA Mictlan is based around flying snakes and has a serpent sacred national summon. Crocodiles just don't seem to come into it.

Possibly. But crocodile-skin armor was certainly used in Mesoamerica. And even poor amphibian unit would be a strategic advantage (even if non-sacred). While considering snakes... Possibly poison protection would be sinergetic with sacred Toads - but it would have to be 100% & this could be too good..

Because chariots were present in the early history of Irish warfare and in Dom3 are generally an EA thing.

Well, Ireland is Eriu. And chariots remained there almost until 16th century iirc. Here it would represent more archaic nature of their army which is compensated by magic & inborn high quality of Tuatha/Sidhe warriors. While in EA they would be redundant - Sidhe surely have no problem with most human infantry (& charioters wouldn't get to use their higher weapon abilties, except against other chariots)!

Dogs used to hunt wolves would obviously outnumber them. They were also used to hunt bears.

Well, that's not the case with wolfhounds & other such kinds of dog. They are specialized to be better than wolf 1-on-1 (for wolves, being no fools, will just make strategic retreat if presented with too much dogs), Irish wolfhounds at least are also faster than wolves on the run - for the same reason. They are however, less clever & have somewhat worse health as their life presents more protection from the elements - but this is represented by them having no stealth, but patrolling instead... I wouldn't probably give them supply, but it certainly has a nice synergy with massed archers... At the same time hounds used against bears were used just to draw their attention from the hunter - completely different specialization. In Russian, they were even named differently than above-mentioned type though in English they are both "hounds". Another type of dogs sometimes used to fight bears (but only after bear was already caught) was bulldog-type - still another specialization!

TC are masters of the elements. Ulm aren't even close to that.

Certainly. But as their MA theme is anti-magic, they could get such specialized thing. Probably with Holy requirement? And they sure as hell need this much more than Tien Chi!

Probably possible and a nice idea. I tink I'd make it a poison arrow rather than a tangle arrow though.

Yes, of course snake-themed arrow should be poisonous rather than entangling! I just used an example to illustrate having two kinds of such a spell with different levels. Sorry if misunderstanding occurred.

Another thought: I personally find an idea that Vans or Tuatha would worship a human Pretender somewhat illogical. It would probably be good to give such races Rainbow-type Pretenders from their own kind. Something similar to this is made with C'tis having Saurolich, and giant-types having their own mage-kings as Pretanders. Note that I don't want such Pretenders to be SCs - just mages of appropriate races, with primal paths appropriate to them, human size & racial bonuses... It's OK if they will be more costly than other Rainbows - they just need to be here.

[Sombre]

Wrana said:
Well, Ireland is Eriu. And chariots remained there almost until 16th century iirc. Here it would represent more archaic nature of their army which is compensated by magic & inborn high quality of Tuatha/Sidhe warriors. While in EA they would be redundant - Sidhe surely have no problem with most human infantry (& charioters wouldn't get to use their higher weapon abilties, except against other chariots)!

Tirnanog is as much ireland as Eriu is. I don't see how they're redundant in EA. One of the tuatha/sidhe heroes uses a chariot, for example. Additionally I'm not sure I'd even make them tramplers, given that all descriptions I've read of celtic chariots stress they were fairly light and more of a rapid deployment/ranged skirmish troop than a scythed trampler.

I don't think that the century in which weapons were used is important, more where they fit in the general military evolution of the source nation. Dom3 puts greek hoplites and plate armoured germanic knights in the same era after all. But again, this isn't the thread to discuss that.


I'm not doing anything with pretenders.

[Wrana]

And where is the thread to discuss, pray tell, or mighty one?
As for scythed chariots - they were actually used only in one region, & this was Persia at about 4th century BC, i.e., after Greek (& Egyptian) phalanxes became problem. Hellenistic states sometimes used them for the same reason, but after their subjugation by Rome the problem itself disappeared as Romans didn't use phalanxes. Though I had heard that Britts used such, but source was probably mistaken... At the same time the game uses archer chariots (modelled after Egyptian/Hettite) as tramplers.
And the general military evolution of the source nation included chariots almost throughout history. They certainly didn't disappear by historical times! I am aware that Cu Chulain uses chariot in EA, but how much is it needed by this nation?

[Foodstamp]

As far as we know, Irish chariots were used in the following manner:

Move onto the field with driver and warrior.

Warrior throws some spears and hops off the chariot.

Chariot moves off the field.

Warrior kills people in teh phace.

Warrior gets in trouble.

Chariot picks him up.

Warrior moves off the field to rest, reload, whatever.

Rinse, repeat.

Here is a great article concerning chariot warfare written by one of our historians at WFGs:

Chariots in Warfare and Entertainment

Feel free to use any of the articles as a reference for your mod.

[Sombre]

Wrana said:
And where is the thread to discuss, pray tell, or mighty one?

Mighty one? I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. This thread is for recruit / spell suggestions for a mod I'm making. If you want a thread to discuss what centuries the different eras in dom3 cover or the merits of the quarterstaff as a melee weapon make it yourself.

At the same time the game uses archer chariots (modelled after Egyptian/Hettite) as tramplers.

Good point. I guess all chariots should be tramplers, though clearly some will suck at it due to low prot/hp.

And the general military evolution of the source nation included chariots almost throughout history. They certainly didn't disappear by historical times! I am aware that Cu Chulain uses chariot in EA, but how much is it needed by this nation?

Why does Eriu need a chariot more than Tirnanog?

I'll think about doing a firbolg one for Eriu and a Sidhe/Tuatha one for Tir, but I'm not really sold that they belong in MA.