Manifestation is overpowerd.

[Argitoth]

Calmon: Did you read my first post?
Endoperez: You're not in the game I'm playing where I have 30 mages in one army and each mage is absolutely precious and has items. When you're generating 40 death gems a turn without any global enchantments, 4 death gems is not much. BTW, I am playing C'tis and have the greatest capability to cast Manifestation. However, it's a spell I would officially ban from the game because of how it can kill commanders bypassing any guards or summons. I'd ban it, but I'm about ready to stop that game in a few more turns.

I love Earth Attacks, bring them on! I love to see my enemy wasting earth gems (not really though, it's only 2 earth gems when you're making 25+ a turn). You can defend against earth attack very easily. Each of my 30+ mages are guarded by summons and large recruits and scripted to cast certain spells. All of them have a chance of dieing from a manifestation though.

Read my first post, my solution is simple, set manifestation to attack closest.

[Twan]

Manifestation is one of the rare things allowing to succeed to take a defended province/fort in endgame (imagining manifestation go through the domes).

At a stage of the game where battles are win by the defender if his good casters are alive and with gems, the few good spells able to kill key ennemy mages in magic phase are a necessity.

Actually I'd like to see it nerfed only if the whole endgame magic is redone. With the actual system I'd rather like to see a manifestation equivalent added in each path.

[calmon]

I read your first post

"Manifestation is overpowered for one reason and one reason only: Manifestations have a chance of attacking the commander regardless of how many units the commander is surrounded by."

And i wrote that its not.

Why should i argue with the detail that manifestation may attack the commander regardless of his guards if i find the commander killing spells by themself very situational and NOT overpowered?

[Zeldor]

I'd rather ban Argitoth from here


But to be on topic - I would be happy with removing all assassinations from the game. It is really just annoyance with current game mechanics. That is random and really luck dependant. And it brings a huge load of frustration sometimes , when a commander with retreat order gets attacked that way or some communion master with strange script. And manifestation is one really ugly assasination spell. I have been attacked by it several times.

[Argitoth]

Zeldor said:
I'd rather ban Argitoth from here

Won't have to, I'm leaving soon, as I've already mentioned.

[Edi]

Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.

[Argitoth]

Edi said:
Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.

Why would proof all of a sudden change your mind that Manifestation is overpowered or not? Bottom line is that it's virtually impossible to gaurantee protection against Manifestation. Those are my test results. Now it's your job to either say why it is not overpowered OR agree with me. Let me list a few tests I did from the top of my head

-Casting living fire once
-Bottle of water
-Just man's cross, eye of aiming, set to cast Swarm and Fire
-Two Catoblepes as guards
-A tartarian as a guard
-5 wyverns as guards
-5 C'tis chariots as guards
-5 wights as guards + set to cast Dust to Dust (will kill the wights if you're unlucky)
-5 wights as guards + Just Man's Cross (not as bad with wight guards)

Everything in this list works ***SOMETIMES*** It depends on if your guards/summons are lucky and if the manifestation doesn't bypass all guards/summons

[Argitoth]

You know what, let me do one more test. If manifestation can be killed 9/10 times with a ring of warning + double the guards, I definitely won't think Manifestation is overpowered... gonna do the test now.

-8 Wyverns are guards: Manifestation bypasses guards 1st time
-8 Scropion beasts: Couldn't hit the Manifestation. Retreated due to fear 1st time.
-10 Wights: Manifestation bypassed guards 3rd time.

[capnq]

Argitoth said:it's virtually impossible to gaurantee...

IMO, this attitude right here is the source of much of your frustration with the game.

This isn't chess. NOTHING should be guaranteed. Every tactic has a counter, every counter has a counter, and none of them should work 100% of the time.

[Argitoth]

Bottle of water = immunity to earth attacks. There are things that do work 100% of the time.


Just did the test: worked 18 times in a row. Commander retreated due to water elemental getting hit too hard. The water elemental definitely would have won the battle.