Shattered Soul for tartarians. Do tell !

[Endoperez]

kasnavada said:

These can be circumvented. Create just a single item called "spell holder". Then, as a special action, a mage can put the spell in the "spell holder".

Another idea would be to unlock items with another criteria (a spell school). I always found quite dumb that you could make a robe of invulnerability without having the invulnerability spell in the first place.

"Spell Holders" - too complex. Way, way too complex. There's nothing like them in the game.

As for the second one, there was a bug that caused similar results with items and ritual spells. Gate Stone only worked if you had researched Astral Travel, etc. It was a bug, and a very annoying one at that because it made several items utterly useless.
Just imagine what Construction would be like if it didn't actually give you anything but Sword of Sharpness? No Luck, no regen, no Air Shield, no Fire Shield, no Barkskin, no Quickness...

[kasnavada]

Just imagine what Construction would be like if it didn't actually give you anything but Sword of Sharpness? No Luck, no regen, no Air Shield, no Fire Shield, no Barkskin, no Quickness...

Yeah, it would make sense and be great. Most buffs have a low level anyway. But people are used to the current system, which doesn't make sense, and since it's essentially a nerf to construction-rushers (which is the main strategy in many games because SC and thugs are more powerful than most spells and armies), it won't be implemented. It would also make armies more useful during mid-game compared to thugs.

For your example, just tying the gate stone to a spell with lower requirements like teleport would also have solved the problem... I suppose the rest of "problems" would have been the same. What was annoying was that the game changed and people refused to adapt, that's all.

Besides, if you like the idea, why don't you try to find an change to the game that pleases you ? I dont undertand that category of people that comment only to say "that won't work" and don't propose a solution that would work for them.

[Endoperez]

It'd be better to actually limit the items to just units. As an example, the item affects all units controlled by the commander it is equipped to. Problems with this approach:

* new, unprecedented spell effect is not likely to be added (if it was, it MIGHT go into #spec field, which would make it easy to add the effect to existing spells)
* undead are numerous, and it's much, much easier to get undead leadership in the hundreds than it's to increase normal leadership. Undead already have good immunities, and making few hundred soulless (already immune to cold, poison and fatigue) immune or resistant to fire and/or lightning as well would be very annoying. Boosting their magres would also suddenly be much easier for everyone.


It would make national commanders with high ldrship values better, because one item on them would affect double or triple the number of units indy commanders could protect.

EDIT: Heh, you made a good post there. I didn't have any ideas when I posted the above message. I got one. I posted it. I can only do as much as I can, and no more.

[thejeff]

I like the idea of effects limited to non-commanders. Probably better for balance if it was just an area effect, that didn't work on commanders, than having it work on units under one commanders command.

Re: Gate Stone
What was annoying was that it was broken and for quite awhile no one knew why. In one game you'd forge it and it would work, in another it wouldn't. It's not that people refused to adapt, but that no one could figure out how, other than just not relying on it. If it had been an announced change, there would have been some grumbling, but then people could adjust. Once it was realized that the bug was tied to researching the spell, it was quickly fixed. No need to adjust.

[Meglobob]

I think its lack of choice in the endgame thats the problem really. When it comes to SC's, you currently have the following choices:-

1) Tartarians.

By a long and clear margin. Nothing else compares really. You will often see a dozen+ tartarians in the endgame. Abominations, poison golems, iron dragons and tarrasque are just not on the same playing field in terms of power.

2) Beyond Tartarians you have wish + GoR, as a second rate hugely expensive option. The Seraph is the most popular choice for the wish but again thats only through lack of choice because nothing comes close to it in terms of power. Even then, its rare, very rare to see a seraph in the endgame.

The best solution would be more endgame choice, the introduction of some new SC chasis that rival the power of tartarians/Seraphs, preferably in other schools of magic, other than death/astral. Those should be normal summons castable (with the required paths in magic of course) by any nation.

This would make the endgame more diverse and fun.

[Zeldor]

And more joined path summons. For example N3A3E3, not just high level in one path + smth else. Something for normal nations, not that 9blessers. S9 bless gives you a really nasty end-game pretender.

[kasnavada]

Anyway, if I dare resume the talks about shattered soul, since shattered soul is 20% chance of a limited insanity, that part about tartarians being the main SC chassis for endgame will not change.

The reason is simple :
- cheap,
- producing commanders,
- some can use magic,
- no limitation of unicity.

The only "equivalents" would actually be for other magic, stuff like : fairy queens, ivy kings, wraith lords and bane lords, vampires, golems... they simply are not at the same power level and for most cost more to summon, less to transform into something useful (tartarian do need to get healed), and about the same to equip.

[NTJedi]

Meglobob said:
I think its lack of choice in the endgame thats the problem really. When it comes to SC's, you currently have the following choices:-

1) Tartarians.

By a long and clear margin. Nothing else compares really. You will often see a dozen+ tartarians in the endgame. Abominations, poison golems, iron dragons and tarrasque are just not on the same playing field in terms of power.

2) Beyond Tartarians you have wish + GoR, as a second rate hugely expensive option. The Seraph is the most popular choice for the wish but again thats only through lack of choice because nothing comes close to it in terms of power. Even then, its rare, very rare to see a seraph in the endgame.

The best solution would be more endgame choice, the introduction of some new SC chasis that rival the power of tartarians/Seraphs, preferably in other schools of magic, other than death/astral. Those should be normal summons castable (with the required paths in magic of course) by any nation.

This would make the endgame more diverse and fun.

I completely agree... the Tartarians need at least one or two summoning rivals.



=====

Last I heard three & more summoning paths or forging paths are not possible for the current DOM_3 game design. Good idea for DOM_4.

[Kristoffer O]

> I completely agree... the Tartarians need at least one or two summoning rivals.

I think I agree too. But that doesn't always make things happen

[Endoperez]

kasnavada said:
Besides, if you like the idea, why don't you try to find an change to the game that pleases you ? I dont undertand that category of people that comment only to say "that won't work" and don't propose a solution that would work for them.

You better start coming up with good ideas very quickly if you want the Tartarian-replacement to appear in the upcoming patch...