HINNOM EATS EVERYTHING

Ming · #1 July 14th, 2008, 11:22 AM

KO,

I am relatively new here but I would like to take this opportunity to say (or rather, echo, as I am sure it has been said by others) that in all these years of gaming I have never come across a developer that is as responsive and as dedicated to his/their games. Thank you and congratulations for such a superb game.

On your question on Hinnom's pop eating, my limited experience is that with a Growth 3 scale and care in the early turns (ie. not hiring Rephaims at EVERY possible opportunity) the effect is minimal (virtually all provinces are still growing), although some micromanagement with placement might be necessary. So I equate it as the equivalent of roughly a 80 reduction in design points (you are still growing in the earlier turns and only plateau out in selected provinces later) , which is not much since they get 80 points back for favouring Heat 2.

Baalz · #2 July 14th, 2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Ming said:
On your question on Hinnom's pop eating, my limited experience is that with a Growth 3 scale and care in the early turns (ie. not hiring Rephaims at EVERY possible opportunity) the effect is minimal (virtually all provinces are still growing), although some micromanagement with placement might be necessary. So I equate it as the equivalent of roughly a 80 reduction in design points (you are still growing in the earlier turns and only plateau out in selected provinces later) , which is not much since they get 80 points back for favouring Heat 2.

Well, this actually illustrates my point quite well. If you a) feel the need to take growth 3 for *no other reason* and b) feel the need to limit/alter how many of your best units you recruit then the effect is significant. It's not a crippling thing, but it's not an insignificant one either. Without HINNOM EATING EVERYTHING, there would be no reason to take growth scales, and indeed death scales would be a reasonable choice - you can leverage your rapid expansion to shape your empire such that good bloodhunting sites remain outside your dominion. Kind of a pain, but that'd give you points to stack a nasty bless on top of everything else.

Even taking these precautions it still will impact the bloodhunting as I suggest, growth 3 in a 5k province will offset 30 population decline per turn, so you're talking about slowing the process I describe, not stopping it (unless you're bloodhunting in provinces > 10k).

Ming · #3 July 14th, 2008, 01:29 PM

Baalz,

I was not trying to disagree with you. I don't always disagree with you.

I am just putting it into perspective and saying that it is no where near crippling. I agree with KO that weakening Hinnom's starting army and PD is already sufficient to bring it in line with other nations. No need to weaken it further.

Ming · #4 July 14th, 2008, 01:36 PM

Baalz,

BTW, look forward to reading your Ashdod guide.

triqui · #5 July 14th, 2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

I am just putting it into perspective and saying that it is no where near crippling. I agree with KO that weakening Hinnom's starting army and PD is already sufficient to bring it in line with other nations. No need to weaken it further.

I dont think that weaking Hinnom PD and army is enough to bring it in line with the average nations. Nor KO has said such thing. KO said that was an easy change becouse it does not alter the theme of the nation, while other changes might do.

Hinnom is a powerful nation even with a lesser starting army and a weaker PD. It's certainly in the class of nations KO has mentioned that require diplomacy (ie: alliances) to be controlled.

Ming · #6 July 14th, 2008, 05:59 PM

triqul,

Do not under estimate the impact of weakening Hinnom's starting army and PD. It obviously depends on how much they are weakened. If you take the example in my earlier post, I think it would be sufficient. Even if I were to be wrong, it would be simplest (and best) to weaken Hinnom's PD even more than to change other aspects of the nation's make-up.

triqui · #7 July 15th, 2008, 02:24 PM

Ming

What i mean is that, even having monkey PD, Hinom would be a major powerhouse in the game. They have very strong sacreds, very strong regular troops, powerful thugs (even SC i would say), powerful mages, access to blood, natural access to dwarven hammers and bloodstones, access to Astral magic... They have virtually no niche "weak".

I think without PD (or monkey PD, which is almost the same) they would still be Lanka-level nation. Which means a solid top 5.

Ming · #8 July 16th, 2008, 05:27 PM

triqui,

I do not disagree with you, except that being Lanka level is not overpowered. At the very least they have the company of Lanka - and probably also Niefel, Hellheim, Mictlan, etc. Furthermore, Hinnom is relatively weak against high defense, high damage troops (read Lanka/Kalissa etc. ). So they will be at their worst in a match-up against Lanka.

There are other reasons behind my suggesting a PD for Hinnom that is stronger than Lanka's (but still somewhat weak) in my earlier post. I'll elaborate on that and my other observations on Hinnom when I have more time.

Epaminondas · #9 September 22nd, 2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ming

KO,

I am relatively new here but I would like to take this opportunity to say (or rather, echo, as I am sure it has been said by others) that in all these years of gaming I have never come across a developer that is as responsive and as dedicated to his/their games. Thank you and congratulations for such a superb game.

I echo your sentiment.