Zen and the art of Thugging

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Since you always attack the front square if you're surrounded, eventually that 1 hp per repel adds up on the other sides and you can watch them disappear for seemingly no reason.

It only does 1 damage if you beat their prot. Which is less often than you'd think. Though with a high strength thug or high damage weapon, it might happen fairly often. Not exactly sure how that part of it works.

It would suck with a whip though. They'd never do 1 damage unless it was against 0 prot stuff.

[Baalz]

Yeah, repel doesn't hurt, but I find it almost never makes enough difference to promote somebody to "thug" that wasn't there already as to approximate awe you have to have an absurdly high attack skill - which is cross purpose to a crowd control thug. I find it does do a pretty noticeable effect in troops (ie pikemen) who often only get attacked one or two times in a round and are often matched up against normal morale troops.

[thejeff]

They don't trigger. All you get is damage capped at one point.
Not Vines, not Fire, not life Drain, not anything else. Just up to 1 pt of damage.

[Endoperez]

I was mostly thinking that defense-based thugs could basically use their attack rating to keep their defense from going down too fast.

It might also come up in few other situations, but those are really rare. Perhaps if you're really desperate for lightning resistance and had to use Iron Rods.

[Sombre]

The thing people forget about repel is that you only need to have a longer weapon. It doesn't matter how much longer. So if you get a length 3 sword and all your enemies are using shortswords or axes, you're just as likely to repel (probably more so due to stat boosts) than if you had a spear or pike.

[Endoperez]

But then again, most PD and many independents have spears, and those are very valuable targets for thugs.

Now that I think about it, Dancing Trident should be one of the best repelling weapons available, since it has length 6 and it deals base 19 damage. 7 gems might be worth it for some high att/def thugs without awe. Perhaps LA Tien Chi Ancestor Smiths?

Ancestor Smiths with a nature random have 15 att and def, 13 hp and a magical two-handed sword with lesser fear (and +3 att/def). They lose their sword if given shield, their armor is enc 3 and they don't start with a helmet, so it can be hard to equip them economically.
Copper plate and Summon Earthpower + Ironskin will give them good protection and minor reinvigoration, and def of 17. Ancestor Vessels are expensive, but have good magic resistance and bows that cause fear, so they could be worth a bless, and Water 9 would help them cause more fear faster. Minor Nature and Earth would help them survive once they get to melee, and would help make Ancestor Smiths thugs work.

I wonder if this counts as meditating? If it does, I just spent about half an hour practicing the Zen of Thugging.

[KissBlade]

e9w9 would be good for both ancestor smith thugs and ancestral vessels. Though LA TC is one of those very versatile nations where you can go a variety of strategies, none of which are too clear cut optimal.

[MaxWilson]

I've also noticed that Hangadrottir w/ Stone Bird get much more survivable, probably because of the Repel.

-Max

[archaeolept]

I think that is likely the case. Even a relatively weak repel effect would potentiate the drott's defense.

[BigDaddy]

I like to put a bow on some assassins. They don't need anything else unless you intend to assasinate, then maybe a ring or some armor.

It may not be the best use for death gems, but some assassins with banefire x-bows is very potent.