The Council of Wyrms

[Wish]

tvyno pushed me down in the HoF ranks :/

[Arralen]

Eat him.

[Huntsman]

puffyn said:
Mistakes were made, and I would like to apologize to all my fellow wyrms for not noticing before now that it was impossible to upload images to the wiki. That was never my intent, and I have now fixed it. Apep has assured me that those responsible were summarily eaten (but very wyrmanely), and that it won't happen again, but if it does, he'll eat them, too.

-puffyn



Woohoo! I was bummed out when I tried getting some pics up so now I am HAPPY. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif thx

[Oversway]

This is even a fun game to read about! Hats off to Panther for thinking of the concept and of course to all the good players involved!

[Morkilus]

Nice pictures. I wept a tear for Grundle in the depiction of the Battle for Yellow Mountain.

[Huntsman]

Morkilus said:
Nice pictures. I wept a tear for Grundle in the depiction of the Battle for Yellow Mountain.



Indeed, it is quite a tear-jerker as you can see his very lifeblood flowing from multiple wounds inflicted upon his magnificent serpentine body, splattering the beautiful emerald-green grass with deep crimson.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[The Panther]

Turn 19 has hosted. Next deadline is Sunday at 8 PM MST. News:
1. Arco staled.
2. Pythium picked up a third VP.

[Wish]

VPs gonna be hard to get without going to war, soon.

[puffyn]

Proposition 14 (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition14) is now open for voting.

[The Panther]

Turn 20 has been sent. Next deadline is Tuesday at 8 PM MST. Turn 20 seemed to be fairly uneventful.

Ronan of Pangaea did manage to survive and win an attack on a potentially nasty knight province. Let's hope that the routine HI/LI/Archer province does provide any surprises to the mighty green wyrm.

With the neutral provinces radidly dwindling, I must wonder who will be the first test case in the Council of War.

[Wish]

I like to look at strings of knight and heavy calvary provinces as a sort of wall. (even though i did a pretty good job on a local heavy calvary province this last turn)

what I would give for a harpy. maybe you will be able to mercenary out your troops, or give them as gifts, in dom 3. that would be cool.

[Cainehill]

You'd like a harpy? Heh - until this last turn's conquered province, I couldn't recruit any scouts anywhere!

[Wish]

the best thing is to play new age pangea (because minotaurs in steel are scary) and still get harpies because the harpy queen shows up. (even if you have to gift of reason them)

[Cainehill]

Speaking of which, you could always charm / enslave one of Pangaea's harpies and GoR it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wish]

I guess so, but that would require me to be at war with pangaea, and to be honest, I think their stats are better than mine.

edit: also, looks like prop 14 got the 7/13 votes it needed to pass.

hooray for broadened safe zones.

[The Panther]

Turn 21 has been sent out. Next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST. News:

Leviatan has died for the third time. I guess his E3 magic is now gone unless he was empowered back up to E2 recently. This should now make 4 magic-less wyrms in the Council. I also expect Leviatan is chock full of afflictions (despite the 1/4 chance of wyrms gaining them)...

[Wish]

well he was alive just long enough to vote on prop 14, so thats what counts :/

[Ygorl]

Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.

[Huntsman]

Ygorl said:
Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.




Already been done on multiple occasions. Just offer it back with profuse apologies.

[Wish]

just know that when you are aproaching a crowned territory it may or may not be a capitol. you could send a scout ahead to check.

[Cainehill]

Huntsman said:

Ygorl said:
Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.




Already been done on multiple occasions. Just offer it back with profuse apologies.



Especially if you just killed the other Wyrm who was finally going to clear out those pesky knights. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[djo]

[edit] accidentally posted yarnspinners story in this thread...oops! I'm only in 2 games and can't keep them straight...moved...

[Morkilus]

Cainehill said:

Huntsman said:

Ygorl said:
Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.




Already been done on multiple occasions. Just offer it back with profuse apologies.



Especially if you just killed the other Wyrm who was finally going to clear out those pesky knights. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



Sounds interesting! Stories! Please! Your military advisors can always censor the important stuff.

[The Panther]

Ygorl said:
Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.



The capitols are fixed, so you definitely should know where they all are. The province numbers are listed in the modified COW map file and is therefore public knowledge. Ignorance is no excuse for violating Prop 14!

On a side note, I have scouted all capitols with my harpies and am offering an Excel spreadsheet containing the starting location of all nations for 31 gold plus 1 gem to anyone interested.

[Morkilus]

Props to Ronan for defending the Safe Territories Amendment despite voting against it. Long live wyrmocracy!

[Ygorl]

Good point. I was worried about being stuck unable to attack a province that bordered on a crowned province without knowing whether or not it was a capital. Your solution works beautifully, however (it's not important to know which nation's capital a province is, only that it is *some* nation's capital - a subtlety that had escaped me when I posted my request). Thanks for helping out this old and unimaginative wyrm!

[Wish]

I can offer the same deal as panther

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:

Ygorl said:
Something I just realized... We'll need to know where the capitals of the different nations are, if we're to avoid invading the lands adjacent to them.



The capitols are fixed, so you definitely should know where they all are. The province numbers are listed in the modified COW map file and is therefore public knowledge. Ignorance is no excuse for violating Prop 14!




Is the modified map file posted anywhere? Since if it isn't, the players can't see it as only the host has the modified file.

[The Panther]

I posted the map file on this thread somewhen. Of course, I would not be able to find it anymore after 36 pages...

Anyway, here is a list of the capitol provinces:
10
28
32
47
89
97
104
128
147
160
171
185
202
210
260
261
263

[Morkilus]

My turn is in... forgot to send yesterday and I couldn't get away from work. I shudder to think what would happen if I installed it there...

[The Panther]

Turn 22 has been sent. Next deadline is Sunday at 8 PM MST.

[quantum_mechani]

I think the council has it's first real case to debate...

Man just got the Ermorian cultist event. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Obviously an act of aggression. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wish]

the big dogs fighting it out. does this make ermor rogue?

[The Panther]

Turn 23 has been sent. No one staled and no wyrms in the HOF died. Next deadline is Tuesday at 8 PM MST.

I will be out of town on Monday, so I hope that any votes and discussion over this cultist event will still be brewing when I return (very) late at night tomorrow.

I might point out that, as far as I know, the cultist event cannot be called upon. It is just a side benefit of playing Broken Empire.

[quantum_mechani]

The Panther said:It is just a side benefit of playing Broken Empire.

It can occur when any flavor of Ermor is in the game, I believe.

[Ygorl]

Well, it's certainly not an act of aggression on the part of Zona Nyl... Still, a province that was mine is no longer mine, and so it seems (in my absolutely impartial and unbiased minds) that I ought to get it back. I'd like to see this resolved amicably (I get my province back, Ermor gets a free cultist and pack of undead). I'm submitting a proposition to that effect forthwith.

[The Panther]

Turn 24 has been sent. Machaka has staled.

The next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST. Since no one has said they will be away from their computer over the holidays, the game will continue on the 3 turns per week schedule.

[Huntsman]

The Panther said:
Turn 24 has been sent. Machaka has staled.

The next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST. Since no one has said they will be away from their computer over the holidays, the game will continue on the 3 turns per week schedule.



Hmm, I didn't get it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
Turn 24 has been sent. Machaka has staled.

The next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST. Since no one has said they will be away from their computer over the holidays, the game will continue on the 3 turns per week schedule.



Cool! Nice to have one game continuing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[quantum_mechani]

I think I'm going to have to bow out of this game... hopefully one of the subs listed in the first post is interested?

[Morkilus]

Gah! This was just starting to get interesting! Any reason you care to share?

[quantum_mechani]

Morkilus said:
Gah! This was just starting to get interesting! Any reason you care to share?

Well, I said earlier I was really in this mostly just to see how fast I could expand and maybe provide a starter nation for someone who wanted one. But the real reason I'm getting out at this particular point is the diplomacy is getting too heavy for me, blackmail and obscure rules is just more than I have the energy to deal with.

If I stay I will just end up getting worked up about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Morkilus]

Heh heh, well each to his own - I love that sort of thing; I got into this game for that exact reason. I do remember you saying about just getting it started. I was hoping Truper might join; there were a few that said they would have been interested if there was a spot. You are doing quite well and I imagine it shouldn't be hard to find a replacement for a nation with a strong foothold. Try passing off mine, for example...

[Zooko]

My nation is available to any Quixotes and masochists who want it! One of the best things about ruling Caelum it is that you are allowed to make pronouncements like this in the Council:


BWAAAARGH!

Except that now they've passed a resolution, or resolved to make a pass, or something like that, forbidding The Olde Tongue in the Council Hall. :-(

Sad of the Raptors

[Huntsman]

Sheesh, dropping like rapto--, er, flies.

[Wish]

Kinda sad that people would be so discouraged. All the large armies are probably just longdead and militias people. geez.

Its not like the game is gonna end when there are no more independant provinces...

It just means that nations formerly at peace with eachother, may find themselves at war.

the difference from a normal game is that everyone is assumed to be "at peace" rather than the usual free-for-alls.

Quantum: why not just go rogue - then you don't have to worry about all the rules - just every other nation.

[quantum_mechani]

Wish_For_Blood_Slaves said:
Quantum: why not just go rogue - then you don't have to worry about all the rules - just every other nation.

Not a bad idea... but I have already played more than enough games where I am being ganged from every direction. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Zooko]

http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition16

[Zooko]

By the way, I just learned that if you ask your military advisors for the disposition of troops and recruitments in a given province (i.e., if you request Military Information), then they will tell you the name of the province, even if you do not control it and have no other information about it, even if its name is the name of a Nation Capitol.

[Morkilus]

aw, I think the Wiki server is down. Sad.

[Morkilus]

oops nevermind
its back

[Huntsman]

Morkilus said:
aw, I think the Wiki server is down. Sad.



Working for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[The Panther]

Turn 25 has been sent out. Next deadline is Sunday (Christmas Day) at 8 PM MST.

Happy Holidays to all!!

[Wish]

things are getting kind of weary at council, and bordewrs are beginning to butt up against eachother.

how long can peace last?

also ermor: why not just propose war and spice things up?

[Zooko]

Wait -- I take it back. This game is fun again.

Zook of the Zaptors

[Wish]

heh. Good that you've returned from purgatory. You can weigh in on Sak's sillyness.

[puffyn]

I am going to be entirely out of email contact from Dec 29 to Jan 9 for vacation related program activities. Anyone interested in babysitting my little empire for those few turns? I can leave some broad instructions, and anyhow Mictlan is not at a terribly difficult stage to play right now.

On a related note, in the unlikely event that something serious goes wrong with the wiki, I won't be around to fix it (and my emergency backup sysadmins will be on vacation with me). This is just a heads up, as I don't anticipate anything happening. On the software side, that is. The content side, ie, the council, seems to be heating up quite nicely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The Panther]

Turn 26 has been sent out. Next deadline is Tuesady at 8 PM MST.

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom sends this message to all Wyrms with ears between one and four. A certain dragon my be allowed in the discussion.

All should be aware of the proposition on the table to eliminate the peaceful nation of T'ien Ch'i. Visit the Wiki below to vote.

[The_Tauren13]

Zona Nyl of Ermor has directly violated the newly amended rule 14 and attacked one of my esteemed safe territories. I tried to resolve this in peace, but his most recent proposition gives me no choice but to declare him and his minions a Rogue Nation.

[Cainehill]

I ask for ... another 24 hours. The cavalry I just ate had been drinking, and I'm am confused and merry. Thus, I ask for a small postponement of all votes, whilst the fermented-goat filled lances have passed through my gullets.

[PashaDawg]

Here Here - - another 24 hours!

[Zooko]

I sent 11 of my 12 Harabs and 1 of my 2 Harab Seraphs to conquer an independent province. One of them was killed by crossbows in the first moment, and all fled and died in enemy territory.

I therefore humbly request that some noble Wyrms send me gold or gems or else post nice encouraging poems on the Proclamations page. Iambic pentameter, please.

[Cainehill]

PashaDawg said:
Here Here - - another 24 hours!



Note that I ask with regards to the votings. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom speaks:

We believe Proposition 18 to be of importance enough to leave open until either more evidence is gathered or a larger amount of votes have been cast. We agree to wait at least until Turn 27 is sent to close discussion. It would be nice if there was a chairman to decide on appropriate timetables for propositions...

[The Panther]

Proposition 19 "The Agressiveness of Man" is now open for voting.

I am still missing turns for Atlantis, Ermor, and Vanheim.

[puffyn]

Please see the Proclamations page for your poem Sak. It's not strict iambic pentameter, but hopefully it'll cheer you up some.

[Morkilus]

I thought I sent my turn. Well, I sent another one.

[The Panther]

Turn 27 has been sent out. Atlantis has staled.

Next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST.

[puffyn]

Well, nobody wrote about subbing, but fortunately it seems like I will be able to get my turns in for the next week after all. I may still need a sub around Jan 5-10 though, and I should warn you diplomacy will be a little slow while Apep is sunning himself in warmer climes.

-puffyn

[Wish]

things are getting interesting

[The Panther]

puffyn said:
Well, nobody wrote about subbing, but fortunately it seems like I will be able to get my turns in for the next week after all. I may still need a sub around Jan 5-10 though, and I should warn you diplomacy will be a little slow while Apep is sunning himself in warmer climes.

-puffyn



If things go as planned, I will be driving to my new home in Virginia from Jan 5-10 myself. I doubt I will be able to do much hosting during this time.

Unfortunately, though, with Washington beauracracy being the way it is, I am expecing a delay in these dates.

[Morkilus]

The diatribe involving Proposition 19 is truly entertaining. Surprisingly (or maybe not so, considering how things are heating up), already more than half of voting Wyrms have had something to say.

[Huntsman]

Morkilus said:
The diatribe involving Proposition 19 is truly entertaining. Surprisingly (or maybe not so, considering how things are heating up), already more than half of voting Wyrms have had something to say.



Oh the drama! This stuff is exactly why I signed up. FUN! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S. Just want everyone to know that everything I write on the wiki will be in-character, as Grundle, so please don't take anything personally. It's just a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom speaks:

Unfortunately Proposition 18, which allows the first War in Orania between Wyrms, has passed. Let the hostilities begin.

[The Panther]

Actually, it did not officially pass. Note that when the 48 hour time limit expired, there were only 6 votes recorded:

Yes:
Ermor
Jontunheim

No:
Vanheim
Pangaea
T'ien Ch'i
Mictlan

Thus, according to the rules, the proposition failed by a 4 to 2 vote.

HOWEVER, after a one day voting extension, it passed easily by a final tally of 8-3 in favor, indicating a generally positive opinion of the council.

This dilemma makes it clear that we need to update the voting rules by coming up with some kind of quorum rule needed as brought up by Suli-Krom in the pre-prosition discussion on the COW site.

In particular, by putting up a vote at 1 AM on Christmas morning, it did make it hard for busy (and drunk) wryms to read the proposal and vote with a clear head.

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
In particular, by putting up a vote at 1 AM on Christmas morning, it did make it hard for busy (and drunk) wryms to read the proposal and vote with a clear head.



Heh. Made it very difficult for some such wyrms to even understand the proposal, who did what to whom and who got eaten. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Morkilus]

Chief Advisor Morkilus speaks:

I may have been out of line delaring the proposition "passed", though I thought it was concensus that the voting period was extended. Do we need to bring the Chief Justice in on this?

The Wyrm Suli-Krom speaks:
We will soon bring the automatic quorum requirement bill to vote.

[Ygorl]

Propositions 20 and 21 attempt to rectify the mess that Proposition 19 has become.

[Huntsman]

Ygorl said:
Propositions 20 and 21 attempt to rectify the mess that Proposition 19 has become.



Hehe, when you guys said this game was going to be "wordy", you really meant it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Reverend Zombie]

B'hemet of Arcoscephale never promised gems to anyone as part of Prop 19. Is there another B'hemet running around, or is the requirement to pay in Prop 20 a punitive measure of some sort for voting yea on 19?

[Morkilus]

I fixed it to what I'm sure it's supposed to be: Grundle and Ronan.

Sounds like a sitcom... or a political talk show.

[Ygorl]

Whoops. I've been juggling so many different wyrms in my heads, I lost track of who was whom. Time for both heads to take a nap.
Cheers!

[RonD]

Wow. I think I'm glad I have houseguests and only a couple of minutes a day to spare for dom2 activities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The Panther]

Proposition 19 has passed by an 8-3 vote. Now all that has to be done is sort out Propositions 20 and 21.

As long as Proposition 19 is not rescinded by Proposition 21, then Ronan is honor-bound to give the following nations 2 gems each:
Abysia
Arco
Caelum
Jontunheim
Pythium
TC
Ulm

Please note that the agreement between Ronan and Grundle was for ONE gem each, but Ronan the wheeling-dealing wyrm inexplicitly modified it to 2 gems before posting the proposition. Ronan has been appropriately beaten over one of his heads by Grundle for this brain fart. Also, C'tis has since retracted his support for Proposition 19 and therefore owes 0, 1, or 2 gems to each of the above nations. That is his call, of course.

Now, on to Proposition 20. My two heads surely hurt from trying to figure out this proposition. I believe it has 3 salient points:
1. Assuming Exibothia is lost (VERY safe assumption), Man is allowed to try and contest (meaning retake) that land until the end of the five turn period.
2. C'tis will not attack Elidor in accordance with the recently passed Proposition 19 in exchange for the public burning of the foul temple present in said province.
3. Man will relinquish all prior claims to the Victory Point in Yellow Mountains. Obviously, there could be a future claim, though.

Note that there is another claim in Proposition 20 that says Pangaea and C'tis will pay 1 gem each to all wyrms voting yes. This has not been agreed to by either party, so vote at your own risk! I do not plan to pay anybody any gems over Proposition 20, for I am honor bound to already pay TWO gems to the above nations.

And if Proposition 20 passes, then there is a lot to sort out. Especially if Proposition 21 rescinds Proposition 19!!

HOWEVER, having said all that, I believe that the wyrm Ygorl is being very cordial and reasonable over this whole issue. In fact, I admire his restraint. Furthermore, I can easily see the truth of his claim that his army is out of position and he should be allowed to try and retake Exibothia on my side of the mountains. Furthermore, he has apparently resolved all his differences over both the temple in Elidor as well as the province of Yellow Mountains. Thus one of Ronan's heads is quite in favor of this compromise.

But the milk has been spilled. Proposition 19 HAS passed. It perhaps can be rescinded by Proposition 21, but it still has passed for now. At least if Proposition 21 passes, it does get me out of paying 14 gems to various nations!

I now have no clue what to do with my next turn...


At least I can say that I am greatly enjoying the word play, the Council, AND the game right now! It ain’t about winning or losing, that is for sure. It is all about the Council of Wyrms.

But I can also see how lawyers get rich simply by arguing over words!

[Wish]

just because it passed doesn't mean the nations in question need to act on it. you know, except for the promised gems, unless it is overturned by 21

[quantum_mechani]

The Panther said:
I now have no clue what to do with my next turn...


Same boat here, is proposition 18 official or not?

[Ygorl]

I have recalled 20 and 21, since 19 has been declared passed and I'll be incommunicado for the next 24-48 hours. I'd hoped that discussion might be extended, in the same manner as with 18, but that seems not to be the case. So, Pangaea takes a province of mine, people who voted yes get two gems instead of the four they were promised, and it appears that Ronan owes Grundle two gems as well.
I will certainly be back with additional propositional goodness in the future.

QM, 18 is pretty solidly passed, I think.

[The Panther]

quantum_mechani said:
Same boat here, is proposition 18 official or not?



We could send it to the Supreme Court, but I would have to say it has passed. I was merely poining out that the rules (written by yours truly) were not as clear as they ought to be. Hopefully this will be fixed in some kind of future admentment. It kind of reminds me of Bush winning by stealing Florida in the 2000 election in the USA. And no, I did not also write the rules for the Electoral College!

Since both you and TC voted for war, I would say you two ought to enjoy the fireworks. At least it will give you a nice incentive to stay in the game now instead of finding a sub. Unless you get utterly crushed, that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[WraithLord]

I am sorry to say that I wish to quit this game.
I don't find the diplomacy heavy game to my liking. Also I've found that I'm not really contributing much to the discussions and on going propositions.

I can continue playing until a sub is found. Or as an alternative turn my nation to AI. Alas, for my mistakes, R'lyeh is not doing so well...

[The Panther]

I have not received turn files from the following nations:
Abysia
Atlantis
C'tis
Caelum
Ermor
Marignon
Vanheim

I will be hosting late this evening due to a poker game with friends. I expect it will be at least midnight MST tonight before the next turn hosts.

I am a bit concerned with Atlantis being AWOL. I have not heard from him since last week.

And I am sorry to see that izaqyos wants out. I have found this game pretty fun so far, perhpas even more that I had envisoned when I thought it up.

[Morkilus]

I'm sorry to see a player want out too, but hopefully there are some wordy folks out there lurking this thread...? Perhaps some of those that did the Yarnspinners thing a while back...?

I definitely do not want AI nations at this point. Once OW I breaks out, perhaps it will not matter, but it seems things are more peaceful than I thought yesterday.

[Huntsman]

Proposition 19 states that Grundle will pay 2 gems so that's what he shall do. It may take a few turns though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Morkilus]

Perhaps Ronan will agree to pay another one in your stead...

Ah, the joy of new alliances.

I've placed a pre-proposition to update rules for propositions, allowing for amendments, extensions, and an optional quorum requirement (since Wyrms will be Wyrms). Please visit the Pre-Proposition Committee (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Pre-Proposition_Committee); I have not yet received any feedback on this. It should be at the bottom of the page. On the other head, we could just ban all extensions and amendments... if you want to change your proposition, retract it before it passes and post a new one.

[The Panther]

Huntsman said:
Proposition 19 states that Grundle will pay 2 gems so that's what he shall do. It may take a few turns though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Actually, you do not have to do that since it is in the discussion section, not the actual Wyrm Law. Of course, you may want to be known as an honorable wyrm and decide to pay anyway. The two gem thing was the idea of my right head. The left head said no, we should stick with 1, but was overruled. Let me know if you want me to pay some or all of the gem difference if you feel strongly about this.

I already did send out the gems to all parties concerned in the current turn, but it is easy to modify the turn when one is the host!

[PashaDawg]

Hi Panther:

Whollaborg (Atlantis) happens to be playing in the RAND game, too, in which we are taking a break until the new year. Is is possible that he did not realize that this game was not on break, too?

I have never found him to miss turns in the RAND game, unless he was going out of town.

Pasha

[The Panther]

Hmm..., he never said that to me. He did last weekend's turn but not this past one. At least his priests are working night and day Calling for their dead God, so all was not lost for him during the stale.

I think we should therefore skip tonights turn and delay hosting until the next turn is due on Sunday, January 1. I will send out an email to this effect. Thanks for the info, Pasha.

Oh, and by the way, I don't know if you are still reading the yarns on Yarnspinners 2, but my next installment will have a discussion about the reclusive Pasha Tzu. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[PashaDawg]

Hi Panther:

I am only guessing about Whollaborg's absence. I don't recall him telling me either. I just figured that RAND is taking a break, and perhaps, Whollaborg assumed that COW was also taking a break. He seems to be a pretty attentive player.

I shall have to read about PashaTzu. Perhaps, I will get off my butt and write a yarn!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Huntsman]

The Panther said:

Huntsman said:
Proposition 19 states that Grundle will pay 2 gems so that's what he shall do. It may take a few turns though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Actually, you do not have to do that since it is in the discussion section, not the actual Wyrm Law. Of course, you may want to be known as an honorable wyrm and decide to pay anyway. The two gem thing was the idea of my right head. The left head said no, we should stick with 1, but was overruled. Let me know if you want me to pay some or all of the gem difference if you feel strongly about this.

I already did send out the gems to all parties concerned in the current turn, but it is easy to modify the turn when one is the host!



Grundle is low on gems (and money, and troops, and research, and....) but he will pay everybody eventually. If you want to compensate Grundle somehow for the difference, that is up to your two fat heads! Perhaps a small trinket... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom speaks:

Please visit the Chairwyrm Nomination Committee (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Chairwyrm_Nomination_Committee) for discussion of possible duties of a chairwyrm. We are attempting to put together a rules for better understanding in propositions, and a Chairwyrm would help in these matters greatly.

[The Panther]

Turn 28 has been sent out. Next deadline is Sunday at 8 PM MST.

[Huntsman]

The Panther said:
Proposition 19 has passed by an 8-3 vote. Now all that has to be done is sort out Propositions 20 and 21.

As long as Proposition 19 is not rescinded by Proposition 21, then Ronan is honor-bound to give the following nations 2 gems each:
Abysia
Arco
Caelum
Jontunheim
Pythium
TC
Ulm

Please note that the agreement between Ronan and Grundle was for ONE gem each, but Ronan the wheeling-dealing wyrm inexplicitly modified it to 2 gems before posting the proposition. Ronan has been appropriately beaten over one of his heads by Grundle for this brain fart. Also, C'tis has since retracted his support for Proposition 19 and therefore owes 0, 1, or 2 gems to each of the above nations. That is his call, of course.




Grundle has sent 2 gems each to Abysia, Arco, and Caelum. He promises to send the remaining nations their due gems next month. He apologizes for the delay but claims "times are tight".... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[puffyn]

Can we delay hosting until Monday? My local internet cafe is closed tomorrow for the holiday, but I can get my turn in by first thing Monday morning (GMT +1).

Thanks,
puffyn

[The Panther]

Delay is fine. This time window was shortened anyway, hosting a day later than usual. I will host whenever all players get their turns in to me.

The schedule will become very crazy when I pack up the computer and move across the country (hopefully this coming week). I will try to get Dominions installed on my laptop so I might be able to do some turns during the move. It also would be good to have a backup copy of the fatherland file in case the movers wreck my desktop.

Also, someone was looking for a sub during the same time window I am moving, so we can expect to game to slow down. At least it will give everybody time to work out the details of the quorum and chairwyrm rules.

[The Panther]

Turn 29 has been sent out.

Lord Pasha joins the list of once-dead wyrms.

Next turn is due WEDNESDAY (not Thursday), January 4, at 8 PM MST.

Sorry for the delay, but Yorgl had been confused by the schedule change over the weekend and he is out of town (I think).

[PashaDawg]

Fricken Frack Frick Frack! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[Cainehill]

Squeaker of a turn - 2 friendly Wyrms met in battle (indie province), happily neither was wounded or died.

Pasha, what got you???

[Morkilus]

We should love to hear the story of the friendly game between Wyrms. Did they just get bored and wander off?

[Arralen]

Want to get yourself a real 2-headed wyrm ?
Look here ! (http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/erde/0,1518,393299,00.html)
Obviously, the World Aquarium in St. Louis wants to sell its famous twoheaded snake "We". They say it's the only one world-wide that survived longer than some days and hope to make big bucks on it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Sorry, wasn't able to find anything in english, so this must do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[shovah]

ive seen things like those before, including a 2 headed turtle :p

[Reverend Zombie]

Ermor has attacked a Safe Province of Arcoscephale. I request it be vacated immediately for reclamation by its rightful owner.

[quantum_mechani]

Reverend Zombie said:
Ermor has attacked a Safe Province of Arcoscephale. I request it be vacated immediately for reclamation by its rightful owner.

Absolutely. Request granted. Glad to do business with a reasonable Wyrm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[PashaDawg]

Cainehill said:

Pasha, what got you???



Lord Pasha and the Good Wyrm from R'lyeh attacked the same province. Lord Pasha did not expect that and paid the price. Sad (and dead) be Lord Pasha.

[Morkilus]

Proposition 22, Quorum and Proposition Rules Clarifications is open for vote.

[Morkilus]

Proposition 22 has passed, so all proposing Wyrms, please re-read section 4 of the Charter. Of course, all involved in the Propositions 18-21 snafu knew this was coming...

[The Panther]

Turn 31 has been mailed. Ermor has staled. No pretenders in the HoF died.

Next deadline is Sunday evening at 8 PM MST.

[quantum_mechani]

Last I heard the next hosting was sunday, when I got an e-mail that it was hosting this morning. I gave warning I would be late getting the turn, but by the time I finally got home and was able to do my turn, it had already hosted. Needless to say I really hate staling, particularity in a war, I would really appreciate if a sub could step in at this point.

[The Panther]

quantum_mechani said:
Last I heard the next hosting was sunday, when I got an e-mail that it was hosting this morning. I gave warning I would be late getting the turn, but by the time I finally got home and was able to do my turn, it had already hosted. Needless to say I really hate staling, particularity in a war, I would really appreciate if a sub could step in at this point.



If you had done your turn Thursday evening (like 16 other players had done!), you would not have staled. Heck, even Puffyn on vacation did his turn on Thursday.

Had you done your turn within 48 hours of receiving the turn file, you would not have staled.

Had you replied to my noon email today when I had told you I was hosting at 5 PM MST today, you would not have staled.

I even gave you until 8 PM today, an extra 3 hours beyond what I told you in my email.

It is tough enough hosting a 17 player game without the same player being chronically late time and time again. It is certainly not fair to the other players to be frequently waiting on one player.

Considering the fact that you have now twice violated a directive of the Council, I think you are not really much into this game. I have to agree that a sub would be much better at this point for all concerned.

It should not be hard to find a sub since you are doing pretty well in the game. Perhaps Boron would be interested in trying the non-death Ermor theme for once.

[quantum_mechani]

The Panther said:

quantum_mechani said:
Last I heard the next hosting was sunday, when I got an e-mail that it was hosting this morning. I gave warning I would be late getting the turn, but by the time I finally got home and was able to do my turn, it had already hosted. Needless to say I really hate staling, particularity in a war, I would really appreciate if a sub could step in at this point.



If you had done your turn Thursday evening (like 16 other players had done!), you would not have staled. Heck, even Puffyn on vacation did his turn on Thursday.

Had you done your turn within 48 hours of receiving the turn file, you would not have staled.

Had you replied to my noon email today when I had told you I was hosting at 5 PM MST today, you would not have staled.

I even gave you until 8 PM today, an extra 3 hours beyond what I told you in my email.

It is tough enough hosting a 17 player game without the same player being chronically late time and time again. It is certainly not fair to the other players to be frequently waiting on one player.

Considering the fact that you have now twice violated a directive of the Council, I think you are not really much into this game. I have to agree that a sub would be much better at this point for all concerned.

It should not be hard to find a sub since you are doing pretty well in the game. Perhaps Boron would be interested in trying the non-death Ermor theme for once.

I told you before, I don't do my turns until the last minute because I always have to do last minute changes and I try not to annoy the host. I never had a chance to read or reply to your e-mail after my warning. Honestly I did everything possible to give warning and get the turn in as fast as I could when suddenly the host schedule moved for the second time. And the game has not been to my knowledge 'waiting on me frequently'.

As for violating the directives, I benefited not at all from them (nor had I intended to break them in the first place). Each of the cases was resolved diplomatically or through the council, which seems exactly what the game is supposed to be all about.

Sorry if I seem a bit harsh, but staling staling was pretty much the icing on 'one of those days'...

[Arralen]

Sorry I have to say that, but quant is right.

In your last email, Panther, you told everyone the game would host on Sunday evening:


It would appear that Puffyn is out of town until Monday. I will see if Alneyan will do the current turn for Mictlan. If so, we will host on Sunday evening, which will get us back to the Sun/Tues/Thurs schedule.

Panther



And, obviously, it was not only me who didn't figure that you were talking about the next hosting. If I hadn't send my turn file already on Thursday evening, I would have send it now, instead of writing this posting, believing I still would have some hours before you host.



Considering the fact that you have now twice violated a directive of the Council, I think you are not really much into this game. I have to agree that a sub would be much better at this point for all concerned.



.. so you start mixing in- and out-game behaviour in an argument to tell a player to leave the game?

Let me give a warning to everyone: I told you all before - do not mix the wyrmy council stuff etc. with game rules and player's affairs. It is perfectly 'legal' for a player not to care at all about the council stuff, as long as he adheres to the rules the game was set up with (e.g. tell everyone if his pretenders dies or is resurrected). If a player chooses not to follow the 'laws' issued by the council, it's his strategical and tactical decision, on which the other players can and should respond appropiatly - in game, not out of it.

As I have no intention to get caught up the the unevitable childish bickering that will ensue if we start discussing in-game behaviour on player, and therefore personal level, I will leave the game without further notice if I ever see that happen again.

Yes, this is intended to put pressure on everyone to think twice about what statements and accusations he posts here. Sorry I have to do that, but I don't have time to wast on a game where players start hurling insults at each other as soon as the first real in-game confrontations happen. Really.

Stefan

[The Panther]

Edit: Post deleted due to the fact it contained excessive whining!

[Cainehill]

The Panther said:
Actually, there is a lot more to the story.

More than half the time, QM is the last player to send in his turn.



Can't be! I thought I was always one of the last! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (Albeit I think I almost always send it in first thing on the morning of the hosting, which seems timely enough.)

[silhouette]

Honored Council Members and Advisors,

We, the not-yet-eaten, have not the omniscience of the Council, and our minds span not the world entire. The sum of our poor records do not allow us to know the names of all the place-names of which the Council discussions refer. Perhaps a Wise One would demonstrate his worthyness of worship by providing this initial small boon to the lowly subjects in the world of the Soon Ascended: a simple map of the world showing only the human names of the provinces, and the location of the seat of your nation, so that supplicants can pilgrimage.

And for those Council Representatives whos' words are true, when found to be in property dispute with neighbors of errant opinion, the plain facts presented as simple graphic map can be a pursuasive argument to the obvious fairness of your position. Surely those of honorable intent and wise ends have the facility to present simple maps to make clear their claim?

Sill

(OOC: Could someone Please post a graphic of the province names. Turn-1 would be fine, no need to drop any free intelligence unless you want to. It's hard to follow the arguments about territory boundaries, etc, since the map seems to not used fixed province names. Thanks!)

[Morkilus]

I wouldn't mind working on a map (tho I'm sure there are more experienced ones); but my scouts are quite poor at their job, so I couldn't contribute much. Perhaps it is time for our world to be shown to all...?

[silhouette]

Certainly, there is no "overseer" (as in YS2), but certainly as omniscience is considered a quality of godlyness, some pretender(s) might like to demonstrate this quality by showing their knowledge. Perhaps a Council Member would like to sponsor a contest and prize to the one (or cooperative) who is first able to present a map showing all the province names correctly. Perhaps the Council could collect some meager funds which can be spent through Proposition for the good of the world, such as the above contest for Map of the World Entire, or an additional prize for the winner of the Tournament to encourage participation, or in escrow for a Disaster Assistance fund should nations have desire to subscribe to insurance ?

Sill (unofficial speaker for the under-represented)

[Wish]

I can probably modify the map to change the color of safe territory

would that work?

[Morkilus]

I would definitely pay (in-game) for a nice map with borders and names. Earth gems, anyone?

[The Panther]

Turn 32 has been sent. Not much happened. Next turn is due on Tuesday at 8 PM MST.

[Wish]

I have uploaded an altered orania.tga that has all safe territories marked with a red hue. just rename your own orania.tga to orania.old and then extract it into maps. when CoW is over, jsut delete it and rename orania.old to orania.tga

here is a link to the map:
CLICK (http://www.importantlife.net/orania.zip)

[Wish]

if you already downloaded it i realized a minute after osting that i missed (at least) one province. If anyone else notices their safe territory is not red, let me know. The link has the fixed map.

[Wish]

I can have my cartographers send you a map that also has the nation name tagged to the capitol. My fee, now, for this intelligence is 10 astral or 5 death gems.

[Morkilus]

good idea! How simple is the process to shade provinces? Did you use Photoshop?

[Morkilus]

Proposition 23 (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition23) has been posted. Keep in mind that this proposition merely creates the positions, and does not elect any wyrms. To set a precedent, another proposition shall place the elected Wyrms.

[Wish]

I use paintshop pro, but it can be done in photoshop. I make a new layer and set it to 13% opacity, then just trace the provinces with a red point to point vector tool. Merge the layers, and dont forget to replace the white dots.

[Morkilus]

We need more votes on the Chairwyrm proposition. Make your voices heard!

[Morkilus]

Proposition 23 has passed, so we can look forward to having a Chairwyrm and Vice Chairwyrm to keep propositions orderly.

Any Wyrm may post a proposition to place a Wyrm into the Chair, but here (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Chairwyrm_Nomination_Committee) is a good place to start. There may be additional nominees, but I think it is time to begin voting. After votes are tallied tomorrow, I will post a proposition to put the Chairwyrm and Vice Chairwyrm in their positions. Please feel free to comment and argue in the Wiki.

[puffyn]

A public service announcement: Proposition 24 (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition24) has been posted by Kir'Doq of T'ien Ch'i.

The new quorum rules of Proposition 22 are in effect, so even if you just wish to abstain you should visit the wiki to vote.

[The Panther]

Turn 33 has been sent.

Next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST.

Starting next Sunday, the deadline times will be moved up to 5 PM Mountain Standard Time (GMT-7) on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday. This will allow me to get the turns out in a more timely fashion.

[Wish]

this turn is proof possitive that you can defeat knights with longdead (giants)

[Morkilus]

Suli-Krom died again most gloriously. Pictures of the cowardly Einhere clan are here. (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Suli-Krom)

[Wish]

poor suli-krom

[puffyn]

There is a new proposition for the council to consider, electing Apep (that's me) and Suli-Krom as Chairwyrm and Vice Chairwyrm. Vote for Proposition 25 (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition25) here.

[Folket]

Hello everyone, so I am the new spirit that has possesed Zona Nyl. It will be fun to make you all my puppets. I am in the prosses of sending my turn to the Panther.

[Folket]

And btw, I would never dare to have deathscale in a game of this size... people playing Ulm, Abysia and Caelum must be planing to go rouge pretty soon.

[Cainehill]

Not at all. Abysia plans to have all choose to enter the jaws of Vyrmin freely and of their free will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

( Remember - Abysia doesn't take nearly as much a hit for death scale as any other living nation. )

[The Panther]

Folket said:
And btw, I would never dare to have deathscale in a game of this size... people playing Ulm, Abysia and Caelum must be planing to go rouge pretty soon.



Actually, I would say they are going for mass summons!

[Folket]

Still income may become more important in a game like this. Since borders are not changing to much.

[Cainehill]

As Abysia, I was rather counting on fire gems for income.

And being the baddest Wyrm in the valley of death, meaning ... tribute. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Turn 34 has been sent. The next deadline is Sunday at 5 PM MST.


Abysia is immune to the income loss from a death scale. It is not, however, immune to the population loss. I think every Abysia player takes Death 3 without even thinking twice.

[PashaDawg]

Hi All:

The Great Dominion of Ulm is pleased to announce that Lord Pasha has returned.

Signed:

/s/ Lord Pasha

[PashaDawg]

Oh... by the way, my choice of Ulm Black Forest had nothing to do with reason. I just thought it would be Fun, Fun, Fun!

[Morkilus]

There is no reason to go rogue when proposing a war would make more sense. With all the bloodthirsty Wyrms in this council, I believe almost any war propositioin would pass. Our Deceased Wyrm may have been a pacifist in the past, but he is going to be VERY angry when he returns. At least towards his own coward army. (he will still be a good Vice Chairwyrm)...

[RonD]

I was pretty astonished, watching that battle. Your guys bailed so fast it looked like they had orders to retreat.

[Morkilus]

I've never seen anything like it; I had to check to make sure nobody got assassinated before the battle began. It wouldn't have been that bad of a loss if my pretender would have stayed at home like the good peaceful Wyrm he plays in Council.

[Cainehill]

If you ate more of your einheres, they'd be more afraid of you than the enemy. Or maybe - you should've eaten fewer?

Vyrmin of Abysia

[The Panther]

Turn 35 has been sent. Next deadline is Tuesday at 5 PM MST.

[Ygorl]

Hey, just wondering if a turn went out that for some reason I didn't get, or if the turn was delayed (perhaps by a cross-country move on Panther's part?)
Anyone?

[Arralen]

No turn 36 for me, either ?!

[Cainehill]

Expect he's either moving, or more likely just real busy getting ready to move on something like the 21st.

[The Panther]

Turn 36 has been sent. It was delayed due to a corrupted Atlantis file, which sure seems common enough for this game. I would still like to keep the deadline at 5 PM MST tomorrow, or perhaps later in the evening as necessary.

Looking at the score graphs for Turn 36, there seems to be a plethora of nations who have no more independants to conquer. I guess it must be time for some wartime proposals. If only I could think of another one, I just might be dangerous. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

As for my cross-country move, the approval paperwork seems hopelessly mired within endless buracracy. Of course, this has become quite typical for our splendid government (By the people, For the people, or some such random nonsense). I still don't have a date for the move as yet. And I just might get fed up with all this and tell them to go pound sand. Who knows???

[The Panther]

Turn 37 has been sent. However, they may be a big problem.

When I hosted, I got a message that the C'tis file was corrupt. But instead of aborting the hosting with a Nagot error, it went ahead and finished the hosting anyway. So I have no idea what happened. It is not something I have ever seen before.

I guess there are basically 2 things to expect:

1. C'tis will be reported as a stale.
2. C'tis will get a Nagot error and be unable to do anything with his turn.

I sent him a message but have received no reply as yet.

[Saber Cherry]

Alneyan said:

The Panther said:
heh!

I sure feel so darn stupid!



"Look at you, Panther, a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?" (*)

(*Exact quote is: Look at you, hacker, and the rest is unchanged)



One of my favorite video game quotes =)

[Huntsman]

The Panther said:
Turn 37 has been sent. However, they may be a big problem.

When I hosted, I got a message that the C'tis file was corrupt. But instead of aborting the hosting with a Nagot error, it went ahead and finished the hosting anyway. So I have no idea what happened. It is not something I have ever seen before.

I guess there are basically 2 things to expect:

1. C'tis will be reported as a stale.
2. C'tis will get a Nagot error and be unable to do anything with his turn.

I sent him a message but have received no reply as yet.



That sucks. But it's not like there's much going on...

[RonD]

If there is something wrong with your turn, I'd hate to discover that it messes you up further in the future. It may be best to re-run turn 37, if there's something wrong now.

[Morkilus]

why can't we re-do?

[Ygorl]

I don't know much (or anything) about how or why games get corrupted, what the symptoms are, anything like that... But if there's any chance that Huntsman's nation might get screwed up, or (even worse!) the whole game might get screwed up, I'm definitely in favor of re-hosting.

[Huntsman]

I'm checking the turn right now.

Edit: turn loads fine but I guess we won't know for sure until the next hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Cainehill]

If it loads fine, should be fine. Albeit you might want to get your turn in a little early - Panther could do a test run to make sure. ( IE, host with just your turn, check what happens, throw it away and rehost with all the turn files. )

[The Panther]

I tested the newly received C'tis turn and it worked perfectly fine. Whatever the error was (if any), it appears to have been relatively benign. We will therefore continue on schedule with the current turn due at 5 PM MST on Sunday.

I am missing only the following turns:
Machaka
Man
Marignon
Vanheim (sent the trn file)

[PashaDawg]

I find that sometimes a particular file will become corrupted, but it will work fine if the player resends the file as a zip. Go figure!

[djo]

The Panther said:
I am missing only the following turns:
Machaka
Marignon




Speaking of which, did Machaka receive my email regarding that...um...unfortunate incident? If not, post and I'll resend.

[The Panther]

Turn 38 has been sent. The next turn is due at 5 PM MST on Tuesday.

[Folket]

There is something strange with my turn. Some of my Jade Sorceress have been moved around, even one I recruited last turn, turned up in the wrong province.

[Folket]

To my knowledge I have not been hurt by this but I will send my turn to The Panther so that he may check if the game will accept my turn.

[The Panther]

I just checked your latest Ermor turn and it worked fine. I have found that Orania is a big enough map to get the occasional error when playing with 17 players. Although, on a poor world and without a death Ermor, I would have thought the game engine could handle it easily.

Most of these commander type errors, while annoying, are not fatal to the game.

P.S. It is a good thing I am backing up all files for every turn. During my test of this Ermor turn, I lost the fatherland file due to operator error. But I was able to reload the backup file and it is perfectly fine!

[The Panther]

Turn 39 has been sent. Next deadline is Thursday at 8 PM MST.

[Folket]

Leviatan of Atlantis was posted as dead on the site. But still he is sculking around my coasts. I have removed the dead status. I wonder if not Oothoon is dead. I'm not seeing him sculking around.

If it is just a dead carcas that my scouts are so scared of you may change it. The radiation of power could be the body heat leaving his corpse. But I doubt that a sealiving serpent is that warm.

[The Panther]

Turn 40 has been sent. Next deadline is Sunday at 5 PM MST.

Edit: Forgot my own deadline!!

[The Panther]

Turn 41 has been sent. Caelum and Machaka have both staled. The next deadline is Tuesday at 5 PM MST.

I will be on a business trip to Washington, DC this week. The hotel I am staying is supposed to have internet connections, so everything ought to work fine for hosting. But if you have not heard from me, it is because I have no internet connection.

[Zooko]

Sorry to stale -- I was travelling. I thought I had sent my move for Turn 40, but I guess not.

[Ygorl]

Sak has a proposition:
http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proposition26

[The Panther]

I am in our nation's capitol WITH a high-speed internet connection. Cheers for Panther!!!

This means that the deadline remains at 5 PM MST tomorrow. So far, I am missing a lot of turns:
Abysia
Arco
C'tis
Ermor
Machaka
Marignon
Mictlan

[Cainehill]

Woot! Three cheers for high-speed internet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif My turn'll be there by morning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom has a Proclamation. (http://yarnspinners.improbable.org/Wyrms/index.php?title=Proclamations)

[Folket]

I find the Wiki a little intimidating. So I post my suggestions here instead.

I think we should randomize wars, so that anyone who fights will be able to attack an enemy. I know some people are loosing intrest in this game as it is to little action.

The randomization will take place on IRC with a bot randomizing number that will correspond to a nation. As soon as one or more wars end, new randomization will be done so that at any time at most one nation will be outside of a random war. A nation can not be part of more then one random war. The two nations are not forced to attack eachother but are allowed to do so.

I also propose that I will be in charge of the randomization as I have access to a bot.

I have talked with several wyrms to see if I had any support and I have had mostly positive response.

Some say that this will diminish the power of the council but I think not so, because as soon as war breaks out the council will be more important. You will need to stop wars with people you do not want to war or get allies and make votes to let them attack your mutual enemy.

It will put some dynamics into the game preventing everyone from sitting on thier asses producing clams.

[PashaDawg]

Hmmmm. This would seem to defeat the purpose of the Council. It seems to me if folks are getting bored then they should start making proposals and get some wars going. The Council seems to be pretty bloodthirsty and is likely to approve most war proposals.

[Folket]

This is a war proposal, but I think alot of people fear starting wars as they might get jumped upon. I think this proposition is needed to get war/peace propositions going in the council. It will put action in the game as well i n the council.

[Ygorl]

Given how much history my wyrm has accumulated, I'd be very disappointed not to be able to pick my opponent(s?). I imagine at least some others feel the same.

Folket, coming in late as you did, you've got less baggage. You could always pick up quantum_mechani's (I believe he was fighting with T'ien Ch'i for a while, after T'ien Ch'i attempted what he felt was blackmail and extortion)...

If someone's getting ganged up on, attack one of the gangers-up; their resources will be at least somewhat committed in the action against the underdog, and you'll get to grow bigger easily with the satisfaction of knowing you're crushing a parasite!

[Cainehill]

Yeah - given the whole premise of the game, assigning random wars would be total BS, negating ongoing diplomacy, pretender/nation designs, how people are handling their borders, totally changing the nature of the game.

Try proposing a war, or simply attack someone, thus going rogue, if you're getting bored.

[The Panther]

Turn 42 has been sent. The next deadline is Thursday at 5 PM MST.

[The Panther]

Folket said:
I find the Wiki a little intimidating. So I post my suggestions here instead.




Please note that putting a suggestion in the forum does no good. Unless you make a proposition on the COW site, it has exactly zero effect on the game.

I too was intimidated by the Wiki site at first. But if a 50-year-old dog like me can learn new tricks, surely you can too! It is actually pretty easy and straightforward.

I also find it difficult to conceive of a player who has been in the game for so few moves could already be bored. Ask the council to declare war on someone! Send wryms a bribe to get their votes. Go rogue and commit suicide! It is not that hard to do.

[archaeolept]

council? you don't need no steenkin' council...


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Cainehill]

Ah, nothing like knights for a nice light brunch. Would've killed more of them, except ... Casting flight, with no friendly troops, apparently casted it on the enemy, despite precision 18. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wish]

seriosuly, two turns in and its boring?

Try playing within the boundries. I'm sure you can start whatever war you want since the wyrms tend to find it pretty entertaining.

[Folket]

Guess there is no point in puting the suggestion on the wiki, as I do not seem to have any support at all. I had expected some support at least.

Ygorl, you are still able to vote for a war against an enemy of your choice. And if assigned a random war with a friend surly you can agre on a NAP.

Cainehill, if your ongoing diplomacy is of any value surly your allies will not backstab you just because they are allowed to. It is true that this will alter the game.

[Cainehill]

Some of the diplomacy is simply knowing that even those nations with whom a player hasn't spoken to, can't freely attack them without going rogue.

In any case - I expect things may be getting more lively, as I expect at least one of three nations will be unhappy with my eating their knights. ( Just bellyflopped into an independent province half a dozen away from my nearest lands; while I'm sure someone may've been counting on it for their own, I have taken advantage of the charter stating that such provinces are first come, first claimed. )

As far as "not seeming to have any support at all", you said several wyrms had given you positive responses?

[Ygorl]

What're you doing casting flight, anyway? Wyrms look hideously goofy flying. Either one head is in the back, and you've got one snake dragging another backwards through the sky, or they both face the same direction and look like a big floppy flying horseshoe. Ridiculous.

Really, it's almost as bad as a wyrm in a VW Microbus.

[Cainehill]

Heh. I am the flying horseshoe of DOOM! Actually, I fly in a vertical mode, one head devouring everything that breathes, the other head up high looking for food - knights, dragons, shedus, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Wish]

Cainehill said:

I'm sure someone may've been counting on it for their own, I have taken advantage of the charter stating that such provinces are first come, first claimed.



I have done the same, I fully expect my neighbor to bring it before council eventually. In the end it will likely result in a small or large confrontation, the result of which redrawing our mutual borders.

[RonD]

Wish_For_Blood_Slaves said:
I have done the same, I fully expect my neighbor to bring it before council eventually. In the end it will likely result in a small or large confrontation, the result of which redrawing our mutual borders.



Nah - B'ang!Pat'h is all bluster and bluff, near as I can tell. Though he may surprise me by following through on his threats some day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Morkilus]

The Wyrm Suli-Krom speaks:

Since Proposition 26 passed, we were wondering if there were actually any evidence of spying. We think Sak is all bluster, and that he actually caused the unrest himself by reciting bad poetry while drunk on Raptor blood.

[Wish]

I did give him something to do with his assassins though: run them into well guarded territory to get killed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[RonD]

Even as we speak, "Teach Yourself to Assassinate in 10 Easy Lessons" rockets to the top of the pythian best-seller lists (both Fiction and Non-fiction).

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Poison.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Panda.gif

[Wish]

admitedly its harder to assassinate jotun commanders than say the commanders of smaller peoples.

[shovah]

unless you want to load assassins up with etheral crossbow/skele charms http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Wish]

well they've had skele charms, but that hasn't helped much

[Ygorl]

There's a new proposition up, in which Sak demands that the spymaster either fight Sak in his dominion or else send him 731 gold and cease all spying... It's in very nice verse, as you might expect coming from such a wyrm as Sak, though I'm not sure what exactly it adds to proposition 26.

[Folket]

Seems like I still haven got a working turn file. When did Panther start using tar files that refuse to work on my computer.

[The Panther]

I am not using tar files. Since no one else seems to have a problem with the zip files I am sending, the problem is most likely on your own computer. I will re-send the turn file for you, as I am back at home now.

[puffyn]

A public service announcement:

Proposition 27 has been extended again, since it has failed to make the quorum. One more vote is needed in the next 17 hours or it will fail by virtue of too few votes.

[PashaDawg]

puffyn said:
A public service announcement:

Proposition 27 has been extended again, since it has failed to make the quorum. One more vote is needed in the next 17 hours or it will fail by virtue of too few votes.



Lord Pasha has voted... so I think you have a quorum now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Folket]

I get tar files when I download them from hotmail I have no idea why. I can open the file and see that there is a zip file inside but I can't extract or get to it. It doews not work to change the file extension to zip then it will just say that the file is broken.

[Cainehill]

Just created a hotmail account to test this, and sure enough - seems that hotmail is screwing things up, won't simply save a file with the filename specified for the attachment. Seems to be getting confused because Panther's mail sends it out specifying content type of x-tar, but that shouldn't matter.

Might ask Whollaborg how he accesses the files, since he seems to use hotmail also (but may be using a paid version that allows DLing the mail to outlook).

[The Panther]

It perhaps could be complicated by the fact that I was sending out the files through COMCAST when I was in DC. At home, I am using OUTLOOK. This next turn will be sent out using OUTLOOK, so maybe it will work for Folket this time. I do know that Whollaburg is having no problems with either method.

[The Panther]

My paperwork to move to DC was finally approved late last week. I will thus be leaving New Mexico on Wednesday to drive across the country. I will have my laptop and I hope to find internet access occasionally to avoid delaying this game. But if you don't see the move from me on Thursday, then you will know why.

I will be arriving in my Virginia apartment on Monday, February 13. I don't know how long it will take to set up a new internet connection while there. Unfortunately, Comcast does not do the East Coast, so I will have to go to a different provider (Cox, I believe).

Hopefully, I will be settled in within two weeks so things will get back to some semblance of normality.

[PashaDawg]

Best wishes for your move!

[Cainehill]

Congrats and good luck with the move, Panther - glad we managed to get together for a beer before you left.

[The Panther]

I have sent out Turn 44. Machaka has staled (again!).

The next deadline is Tuesday at 5 PM MST. Please get yours turns in on time since I will be packing that night and will not have a lot of time for Dominions.

[PashaDawg]

You had a beer and didn't invite me???

So, Panther, does Cainehill really look like Van Gogh?

[PashaDawg]

(I, of course, look like a cross between Beethoven and Brad Pitt.)

[RonD]

Van Gogh? Never heard of it - must be a local microbrew.

[edit - Oh - Pasha meant "look like"]

Meanwhile, drive safely.

[Zooko]

As per Proposition 26, I get to choose the Province and King Joke du Marignon gets to choose whether we fight alone or with one other unit and whether we fight naked or with magical items.

I choose Anremark. Three out of four spies that were caught were caught in Anremark, and I want the good people of Anremark -- most of whom are proper Sak worshippers -- to witness the living disproof of the spy's whispers!

Sak of the Raptors

[RonD]

Cainehill said:


In any case - I expect things may be getting more lively, as I expect at least one of three nations will be unhappy with my eating their knights. ( Just bellyflopped into an independent province half a dozen away from my nearest lands; while I'm sure someone may've been counting on it for their own, I have taken advantage of the charter stating that such provinces are first come, first claimed. )




Come to think of it, I am upset that you killed those knights - I had been using them to, er, "train" the local volunteer militia. I found I needed to pay them considerably less after they were "well trained" by the knights.

[PashaDawg]

RonD said:
Van Gogh? Never heard of it - must be a local microbrew.

[edit - Oh - Pasha meant "look like"]

Meanwhile, drive safely.



Yup... I should have read my own text... tsk tsk!

[Folket]

This turn seems to be working fine.

[Morkilus]

PashaDawg said:
You had a beer and didn't invite me???

So, Panther, does Cainehill really look like Van Gogh?



I just want to know how many ears he has. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[The Panther]

PashaDawg said:
So, Panther, does Cainehill really look like Van Gogh?



Amazingly enough, there is a small resemblance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

Zooko said:
As per Proposition 26, I get to choose the Province and King Joke du Marignon gets to choose whether we fight alone or with one other unit and whether we fight naked or with magical items.

I choose Anremark. Three out of four spies that were caught were caught in Anremark, and I want the good people of Anremark -- most of whom are proper Sak worshippers -- to witness the living disproof of the spy's whispers!

Sak of the Raptors



I may not be the Chairwyrm, but I do not see how this claim is accurate. The exact words from Prop 26 are:
"I hereby proposition that this Wyrm shall be obligated to engage in a DUEL with Me, Sak of the Raptors, in a province free of Provincial Defenders."

How does this give you the right to choose the location? Being on defense and having the first move is pretty big advantage. There may have to be a ruling from the chair on this issue. We also need to hear from King Jack on the subject.


On a side note, I think it is great that you found the offending spies. This means your claims were definitely valid. I also note that getting a LOT of magic on your wyrm seems like a good idea right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Cainehill]

Seems that the other members of the council should vote on a province - if one of the Wyrms doesn't show up there, that Wyrm defaults and is rogue. Oh my - one of them can teleport, and one can't? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[The Panther]

I have an idea for the duel.

1. Let a third party who is nearby (like Machaka) take a province where all three nations border.
2. Machaka (or whomever) next vacates the province and leaves no PD behind. Machaka gets to keep the gold/gem income for the one turn as payment for participating.
3. Both wyrms move into the empty province on the same turn. There is a 50/50 chance of either wyrm getting the advantage of defense.
5. Note that the battle could conceivably go the full 50 turns, or one wyrm may eventually want to retreat. Both nations or neither nation should be able to retreat. Since Sak can't teleport, then he is unable to go to a territory which does not border his lands. King Jack should not be penalized just because me might be able to teleport at the present time.

This seems fair, especially if there happens to be a province with either zero dominion or someone else's dominion. Because of the low dominion starting level selected by Sak, I would guess that there is a province he currently owns on the Marignon/Machaka border without Caelum dominion.

How does this sound?

[Morkilus]

I would vote for a proposition making Panther the "Referee of Duels". The above idea sounds excellent, if Astairr the Red is okay with clearing a dueling grounds.

[puffyn]

The Chair wishes to stress that its powers are strictly limited to regulating voting procedures and has no power to interpret or enforce existing laws.

My personal opinion is that we must hear from James. He and Sak may be able to come to a sensible and mutually satisfactory arrangement for this duel. Barring that, Panther's suggestions sound good, and I would also support a proposition to make him "Referee of Duels".

[djo]

We are in agreement with our wyrmly colleagues that Prop 26 does not specify that Sak choose the province of the duel.

Furthermore, we agree in large with the thoughts of the duelmaster-nominee, and if we were to seek a neutral meeting-ground, it would seem we would require the cooperation of our only mutual neighbor, good Vyrmin to the south. If he were willing to clear Gaieta (122) or Aole (113), the location would be reachable by both of us. (The fortress in Gaieta would, of course, need to be destroyed first.)

What say Sak and Vyrmin to this? Other learned opinions and ideas are welcome.

The other parameters of the duel, we shall decide upon after consulting with our royal strategist.


Would-be spectators of this event ought to send their own scouts to the region in preparation of wyrmly bloodshed!


King James, who disavows that his followers performed any improper actions whilst in his employ

[Ygorl]

Why would the fortress need to be destroyed? Just fight outside its gates (unless it belongs to Vyrmin and he's got lots of PD, in which case those would need to be cleared).

[Cainehill]

djo said:
We are in agreement with our wyrmly colleagues that Prop 26 does not specify that Sak choose the province of the duel.

Furthermore, we agree in large with the thoughts of the duelmaster-nominee, and if we were to seek a neutral meeting-ground, it would seem we would require the cooperation of our only mutual neighbor, good Vyrmin to the south. If he were willing to clear Gaieta (122) or Aole (113), the location would be reachable by both of us. (The fortress in Gaieta would, of course, need to be destroyed first.)

What say Sak and Vyrmin to this? Other learned opinions and ideas are welcome.

The other parameters of the duel, we shall decide upon after consulting with our royal strategist.


Would-be spectators of this event ought to send their own scouts to the region in preparation of wyrmly bloodshed!


King James, who disavows that his followers performed any improper actions whilst in his employ



While I don't _own_ either of those provinces, I would be glad to claim one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

My province of Azimar (98) is the one I see that both nations border. No province defense, so I could give it up in exchange for ... 50 gold. Or if I get to teleport in and eat the winner, or charge 10 gold to each nation not involved.

[Cainehill]

( I am particularly in fond of, say, my getting to eat the winner. )

[Cainehill]

( I am particularly in fond of, say, my getting to eat the winner. )

[PashaDawg]

While I don't think this matters for the current circumstances...

Isn't it the role of the Chief Justice to have the final word on all matters concerning the construction of propositions that are passed by the Council (e.g., whether Proposition 26 allows Sak to choose the location of the duel)?

[The Panther]

Actually, I foresaw the Chief Justice having the role to verify conflicting claims inside the game. For example, if Marignon had claimed no spies were found by Caelum, then looking at the old turn files would clearly indicate whether or not Marignon was actually causing unrest in Caelum territory and spies were truly caught. After all, it is possible that Caelum might have killed the wrong spies. Not likely in this particular instance, but you get the general idea.

Simply having a Chief Justice who can view your private turns makes situations like the current one easy to resolve. Without that, it could easily be "His word against mine!", or "I tell you, he is lying!!!"

In other words, the Chief Justice rules only on things which can be verified by using the master password to look at the turn files. As for poorly worded propositions, well, then the proposer can just sleep in the bed he/she makes. This is how lawyers get rich, right Pasha?

Finally, just supposing that Sak had proposed asking the Chief Justice to look into the turn files to see which nation was spying on him, then that would have been unwyrmly in the extreme and probably would not have passed. No way would I have voted for such a cheap trick as that! But, because Sak was acting quite wrymly, his proposition passed.

After all, as someone eloquently said in the proposition comments, Sak had the responsibility to unmask the spy himself to enforce his own ruling; Spying is definitely NOT against any rules.

[djo]

Ygorl said:
Why would the fortress need to be destroyed?



What kind of a wyrm would we be if we didn't slip in an outrageous demand now and then?

Much later today we will consult our royal cartographer regarding Vyrmin's offer, but we do not think a short-term lease of his province would be impossible to negotiate.

[Ygorl]

Of course!
You'd think I'd have learned by now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[The Panther]

Turn 45 has been sent. C'tis has staled.

The next deadline is Thursday at 5 PM MST.

[The Panther]

Turn 46 has been sent. Atlantis has staled because he sent me an old 2h file. I went ahead and sent the Ermor turn without zip since I am back on my laptop.

The next deadline is Sunday at 5 PM MST.

[The Panther]

Turn 47 has been sent. Miraculously, no one staled!

Also, I arrived this evening in Alexandria through the rain and snow. The freeways were kept clear the entire way! Had we had this much snow in New Mexico, you would simply have to wait for it to melt. But not here.

Now that I am on the East Coast, I am moving FORWARD the hosting schedule by 2 hours. The new deadline will be 5 PM Eastern Standard Time on Tuesday, Thursday, and Sunday.

Therefore, the deadline for the next turn is 5 PM EST (GMT - 5) on Tuesday.

[Cainehill]

Glad to hear you made it - be happy you weren't moving to NYC, seems their snow may stick around. If only we could get some here in NM.

[djo]

Fellow wyrms,

The duel between Sak of the Raptors and King James is scheduled to take place in a couple turns (probably T48, if we count right) in Azimar (98). If you have spies in the area, stop by and watch!

Terms are: magic items allowed, otherwise, wyrmano-a-wyrmano. In theory, two wyrms enter, one wyrm leaves.

We encourage everyone to wager on the outcome. With the regrettable lack of wars, what else have you got to do?

[The Panther]

Turn 48 has been sent. Machaka and Ctis have staled.

The next deadline is Thursday at 5 PM EST.

[Cainehill]

Atlantis, Arco or Ermor, any of y'all gotten your turns yet? Mine's usually in the same zip / email as you, but I ain't got mine yet, and I hate to think I'm missing a minute of Vyrmin eating something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Zooko]

Does anyone have advice on how to exterminate an infestation of spies? I suspect that some of them may be wiggly little Men Of The Cloth who slyly whisper blasphemy into the ears of my indolent subjects.

I've been able to catch quite a few of them by sending small armies of wigglers marching around harassing villagers, but I'm not sure if it costs me more to catch them than it costs James to hire them...

Regards,

Sak of the Raptors