Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Finished!)

[Wikd Thots]

That is not an annoyance. That is a tactic.
If we all donate some small magic items to LA Rhyle then we can keep the damage smaller.

[BigDisAwesome]

That's pretty low, and a borderline exploit if you ask me.

[Velusion]

Wikd Thots said:
That is not an annoyance. That is a tactic.
If we all donate some small magic items to LA Rhyle then we can keep the damage smaller.



I'm going to rule that deliberately filling up another player's lab with nuisance items so he fails in forging is an exploit.

Don't use this tactic.

[Evilhomer]

I seem to have caused some stir in this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

I made you 70 Slave Collars Evilhomer!

[Xietor]

If you are at war, then most likely you are not free to research straight to const 8, as their are not many combat spells along that path!

Obviously LA ryleh is not under any serious threat or he may have been forced along a different path to survive.

While I am second in research, and although i love my neighbors and trust them ALL, I do not think I would have dared go straight down the construction path, as those unique artifacts do not do you much good if your empire has been destroyed.

[Evilhomer]

I'm in dire threat of these dumb indies attacking me each turn... other than that I guess im pretty comfortable.


I made you 70 Slave Collars Evilhomer!

This would be pretty painful to receive each turn for sure.

[Velusion]

In order to observe the game someone asked if I could make the scores.htm file available via the web. For those who don't know the scores.htm file lists exactly what is in the score graphs but with specific numbers rather than just graphical estimates.

So my question is - does anyone care if I do this? It will list exactly how many army units everyone has, how many forts, etc... While you everyone can get a pretty good idea of what the numbers are from the graphs already some players might not want hard numbers available.

So, if you'd rather not have the hard numbers available to all speak up now! All I need is one player to object and I won't put it up.

If anyone wants to convert the scores.htm file to a graph (I have all of them backed up) we could do that for a complete history of the game as well... (hint, hint, Ich) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Salamander8]

I have no problem with that. In fact, once the game is over (or I'm eliminated), I'd love to see these charts.

[Lingchih]

I would prefer not to have the hard numbers posted at this time.

[Meglobob]

The nation of Tir Na N'Og will in the near future cease to be. In a truely devestating attack which caught me utterly and completely by surprise, I have effectively been eliminated from the game.

LA Atlantis sailed a nearly 400 strong army and captured my capital and he has breached Tir Na N'Ogs walls. At the same time MA Oceania has attacked me as well. Also apparently a rather large alliance has 'secretly' been organised to wipe me out. So all in all I am pretty much dead as dead can be. I applaud the effort I inspired, I take it as a compliment.

I hereby release all my allys from there NAP's with me and urge them, for there own sake to conquer my lands as fast as they can. Otherwise you will end up with borders with LA Atlantis and MA Oceania. This will end up being very bad for you sooner or later.

Good Luck to everyone still left in the game, except to those nations that conspired against me, bad luck to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

All in all I found it highly amusing, I laughed really, really hard when I got my latest turn, it was very, very funny...but I have always had a wierd sense of humour... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[lch]

Velusion said:
If anyone wants to convert the scores.htm file to a graph (I have all of them backed up) we could do that for a complete history of the game as well... (hint, hint, Ich) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Aagh, aagh, aagh, work work work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Yes, I'll do it - eventually. Before the game ends, even. But I think showing the raw scores right now is not a good idea. What else would they be used for other than to get abused?

[jutetrea]

I've got raw scores showing in one of gandalf's midsized games. I'm not sure how it really hurts, the graphs pretty much show the exact same thing. If I see that an opponent is about a quarter inch lower in army size on the graph, or I see that I have 1200 troops and he has 1000 troops... is that a big difference?

I check the scores every once in a great while for the other game, more out of curiosity than anything else. Usually just to see what my troop count/gem/fort count is up to without doing it manually.

I may just be missing something, but I don't see that much of a benefit from numerical vs. graphical.

I'd still like to have it available though, just so I can copy/past into excel and have pre-set graphs limited to my neighbors. I want to know what 9 nations are doing, so I have to uncheck the other 40+ in game. Better scale too.

[Evilhomer]

This was my last turn for a while - i have briefed folket on whats going on in the world, all my current deals are still valid.

[Kristoffer O]

How is the game going? What turn are you on and how many are still in the game?

I'm a bit curious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

KO - check this site out:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=Perpetuality

It will give you the status of who is in/out and the turn.

[Jazzepi]

I'm basically out at this point. I wasn't able to ravage EA C'Tis's capital like I promised. I did, however, kill his God. Which was quite a bit of fun.

Jazzepi, gang-banged by 4 nations at once. How many of you can say that?

[tibbs]

Jazzepi said:
I'm basically out at this point. I wasn't able to ravage EA C'Tis's capital like I promised. I did, however, kill his God. Which was quite a bit of fun.

Jazzepi, gang-banged by 4 nations at once. How many of you can say that?



In a game this size, I don't think it will be that uncommon.

[Wikd Thots]

MA Mictaln is out now. 2 nations squeezed me like a pimple. They met at my castle and unfortuntly did not try to attack both at the same time. MA Vanheim got my castle. I would not mind seeing the scores posted. But it seems like the game will let me keep coming back in to look at the scores in the game.

Hey Kris, if you want I will give you my password so you can poke your head in and see the score charts.

[Velusion]

I want to thank FAJ who has been graciously flipping players who disappear to computer controlled for me. Thanks "Gravedigger" FAJ!

Please don't make me call upon his services because you rudely abandon the game. If you are losing interest in the game because you are doing poorly simply set yourself to computer controlled please.

[Baalz]

I just realized something that is completely obvious, but as I just realized it I figure mentioning it might be of use to somebody. If you're looking through the history of Perpetuality thread, it's pretty easy to just skim through and glance at the "edited by xxx" tag at the very end to see when updates have been posted to each post. Then, if the poster posts/deletes to bump it whenever an update is posted it'll be more like a regular thread where you can just read the latest update if you're interested.

[Gandalf Parker]

Before anyone goes computer controlled let me make a pitch. Not everyone agrees on the good and bad points of these games. If you are getting bored with it because the initial quick-blitz attacks are over and its moving into micro-management then keep in mind that some people enjoy the MM part of the game. You might seek to hand off your nation to one of them.

And even if you are in a totally losing situation, it will still be beneficial for a newbie to step in and play it out. And it would be more interesting to the other players. Please go AI only as a last resort.

Gandalf Parker
--
Do not go quietly into the night
rage rage rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
What does that mean? It means dont be a putz and quit the
multiplayer game before all of your candles are snuffed.

[Evilhomer]

If anyone wants to convert the scores.htm file to a graph (I have all of them backed up) we could do that for a complete history of the game as well... (hint, hint, Ich)



would be really great to be able o follow the game without access to dominions. The graphs can be identical to the in-game variant.

[Lingchih]

Well... allright. I rescind my earlier veto of this. Make the graphs if you want.

[Jazzepi]

I'm curious if there's a policy about people who have been eliminated replacing those who give up? I could see a conflict of interests arising from previous disputes being brought back into the game. Or previous knowledge that the person they're replacing would not have access to being used.

Was wondering because I might not mind replacing someone later if they get tired of all the micro, and because I've been eliminated already.

Jazzepi

[LoloMo]

I actually think an eliminated player replacing someone tired of the micro is good. That player would be more involved since he was in this game already previously.

Regarding previous knowledge, I'm sure if 10 turns have passed, things have changed sufficiently that previous knowledge is not very useful anymore. We could make it a rule that a previously eliminated player coming back would have to forge NAPs with nations he was previously at war with first.

All the games seem to have serious problems finding subs and replacements, rather than setting a good nation to AI I would rather an eliminated player take over.

[Velusion]

Jazzepi said:
I'm curious if there's a policy about people who have been eliminated replacing those who give up? I could see a conflict of interests arising from previous disputes being brought back into the game. Or previous knowledge that the person they're replacing would not have access to being used.

Was wondering because I might not mind replacing someone later if they get tired of all the micro, and because I've been eliminated already.

Jazzepi



The benefits to having an active, interested player outweigh the possible negatives I think. I would probably require you to declare your grudges at the door (can't expect you to forget info learned though).

[llamabeast]

Jazzepi - Replace me in Armadillo!

Edit: D'oh! You're already in it. And in fact I just sent you a diplomatic PM. Stupid llama...

[Jazzepi]

I don't have any grudges, really :> I got beat fair and square. I try to segment my games, and coming back into Perpetuality would be no different.

In any case, if you need a sub, I'd be happy to. I wonder how many dying nations I can prop up in one game alone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jazzepi

[Kydorias]

The storm is nigh. My scouts observe approximately 6,500 LA Ermorian Undead milling around my Eastern borders. Meanwhile, LA Ermor's lapdog, LA Pangea, gathers a mighty army to my Southeast.

The next few months should prove extremely interesting.

May the best living, non-hooved warriors win the battlefield!

--Serenity, High Priestess of LA Caelum

[atul]

Jazzepi, you haven't actually even died yet and you're already wanting to sub someone? Considering your pretender is currently sieging your former capital I'd say you could have it worse. :p

Honestly, given the size of Perpetuality, one could sub a nation on the other side of the map from his original one and not even recognize the particular game.

[Jazzepi]

I set myself to AI. If my pretender is doing that, it's because she, I think I had a crone with N4, just broke free into the home province. I doubt that the 150 or so werewolves left will be doing anything useful.

Jazzepi

[atul]

Hm, I see an obelisk. But oh well, lots of strange things happening up north. You were a good neighbour, I constantly knew who was fighting whom while it lasted. Now, chaos.

[Jazzepi]

An obelisk? I'm pretty sure I had a crone. Maybe it was an obelisk. I forget about my pretenders a lot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I went for uber scales so I could rush with those skin shifters early.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

Upon further checking with catgod my pretender was as follows.

Monolith
DOM 10
A1
N4

O3
P3
C1
G3
L3
D2

[BigDisAwesome]

Luck 3 with order 3, but drain 2?
That just doesn't make sense to me.

[atul]

Hey, drain is very popular among my neighbours - all three land neighbours of mine have drain 2. Also, everyone seems to go for order 3 and some positive luck, 1 or 3.

Go figure.

[Jazzepi]

I'm always a big fan of drain when you are making lots of gold as the only thing it really effects is researching. Since the difference between M1 and D2 is 2 research points per caster. This means with D2 verus M1 you need to build something like 1 researcher more for every 3 you would have built under M1. So for D2 to be worth it, those three scale ticks need to go into something that's going to give you a lot of gold.

Luck 3 seems to open up some crazy good random stuff. Like for instance I got the 1,000 gold random on turn 15 or something which was a huge boost.

I'm not an expert though, and I like to try new things. In retrospect I should have dropped the DOM down to 5, and picked an imprisoned pretender that would have been better for site searching, something like a crone with level 3 in lots of paths.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Kydorias said:
The storm is nigh. My scouts observe approximately 6,500 LA Ermorian Undead milling around my Eastern borders. Meanwhile, LA Ermor's lapdog, LA Pangea, gathers a mighty army to my Southeast.

The next few months should prove extremely interesting.

May the best living, non-hooved warriors win the battlefield!

--Serenity, High Priestess of LA Caelum



You may live to regret that lapdog comment. Then again, you may not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Theonlystd]

Id be up for subbing or replacing some one in a nation looking doomed.

So i didnt have to worry about totally screwing it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ironhawk]

Velusion said:
KO - check this site out:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=Perpetuality

It will give you the status of who is in/out and the turn.



Wow, that status thing was really nice. I wish I had that for the other games I've played in. Anyway, I just wanted to take a second to say congrats to Velusion and DrP for successfully managing this game. I was really skeptical that it could be done, both from a technical and social management perspective. But you've pulled it off quite well, it would seem - Great work!

[Lingchih]

Yes, this game is a blast. Probably the best MP I have played in, and I haven't even gone to war yet (well, that changes this turn).

Underhanded diplomacy, backstabbing, mega-battles, alliances, trading with nations on the other side of the world that you will probably never even meet in-game, rampant spying, more backstabbing, four-on-one gankfests, and a superpower sitting out in the ocean watching everything. It's got it all.

[StrictlyRockers]

This game has been very fun. I can't wait for the next one, too.

[atul]

Let's just kill of even a half of the nations before setting up another one, otherwise the pool of players and substitutes is going to get really low. :p

Besides, when is the next patch? From the progress page:
4th july
* MA Agartha heroes x2.

Finally! I want mi heroes! Sweet heroes everyone but MA Agartha gets, until next patch! (and yes, I know the patch won't be any time soon)

Hm, I get a feeling I should rant about ingame issues, but given that the hosting happens about now and I'm still five hours at work there isn't much to rant about. Oh well.

[Kristoffer O]

I fully agree with Ironhawk. It seems to work out splendidly.

I'm very much interested in joining the next one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Atul: I suspect the next patch will be released shortly after JK arrives from the land of the Vanara. He is there in a Vanheim scheme of magical conquest (he's in India visiting a aid-worker friend). He will be gone the whole of july, more or less. So expect an august blessing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Meanwhile I have time to do some nationworks. Realized Agartha didn't have that many MA heroes (none actually). You will be pleased. They are rather tough to compensate for the wait http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, both of them. One living (almost at least, he's rather old) and one not living. But I intend to make a puny one as well (physically at least).

[atul]

Oh cool, now I just have to survive 'till August. And until my misfortune 2 deems suitable to give me heroes. Hear everyone, no ganging up on poor Agartha before they've got a shot at their heroes, mmmkay?

(should figure out better things to do at work, this is just painting a big sign on me)

Anyway, KO, thanks for the timeline headsup. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Salamander8]

I'm loving this huge game too. Part of it is that I was able to get 1 of my personal favorite nations (1st pick from my list!), but just having so many different people playing the same game really makes it come alive.

Hopefully the next one will use a simliar method of nation selection, I'm getting some weird results in the random games.

And huzzah for MA Agartha heroes! I rather like all Agarthas, but felt that MA could use more stuff, so this is very good news! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Im very glad that we got this going. It definetly shows the thing about "complaints are often specific to the type of game you usually play". Absolutes about what will or will not happen, or work, or is even worth considering are definetly different on a game of this level.

Hey Kristoffer, since this isnt such a horrible bastardization, is there a chance of maybe fixing the thing about mods not affecting the game sighnup screens? It would sure help in setting up more of these. And in games using modded nations.

[Kristoffer O]

I have no idea of what you are talking Gandalf. You'll have to speak with JK, or perhaps include me in a modded MP game so I get bugged by the problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

I tell you, one thing I didn't expect is the actual effect of the more difficult research. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's foregone some of my usual detours in research because it's just not trivial to grab level 2 or 3 in something for one spell. Brings a whole different facet to the value of remote searching spells (if you're not researching those paths already).

[Velusion]

Baalz said:
I tell you, one thing I didn't expect is the actual effect of the more difficult research. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's foregone some of my usual detours in research because it's just not trivial to grab level 2 or 3 in something for one spell. Brings a whole different facet to the value of remote searching spells (if you're not researching those paths already).



Yea I invested in manual searchers this time to avoid having to deviate from my research plan...

[Velusion]

atul said:
Let's just kill of even a half of the nations before setting up another one, otherwise the pool of players and substitutes is going to get really low. :p




Yea, I think the available pool of players is smaller because of the amount of games running at the moment. It's harder to fill games and find subs of late. I can't imagine another mega-game filling up anytime soon.

I wouldn't think about starting another until more than half of these players in this one are eliminated.

[StrictlyRockers]

It looks to me as if about a quarter of the players in this game have already been eliminated, set to computer control, or are well on their way to defeat. So maybe in another month or two it would make sense to start up another one as more and more people are eliminated from this one.

Evilhomer seems to be the runaway leader, but certainly not the runaway winner at this point. It will be interesting to see how this one plays out. I think we have some of the very best Dominions 3 players in the world in this one.

No points for second place.

because...

There can be only one!

SR

[Kydorias]

Open hostilities have commenced between LA Caelum and the evil alliance of LA Ermor and LA Pangea.

So far LA Caelum has lost two provinces and a few hundred LA Ermorian chaff troops have been ground to dust (an almost negligible loss from LA Ermor's perspective unfortunately).

Any of LA Ermor's current neighbors are encouraged to join in the festivities while the opportunity is ripe. On the anti-Undead side of course http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

--Serenity, High Priestess of LA Caelum

[Gandalf Parker]

Kristoffer O said:
I have no idea of what you are talking Gandalf. You'll have to speak with JK, or perhaps include me in a modded MP game so I get bugged by the problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Mods arent checked until the game is created (fatherland file) so modded nations do not show up in a network game as a choice. So those games can only be created manually as a local game.

Thats a hassle but for a game like this one it gets crazy. It means running 3 seperate network connections for uploading gods (early, mid, late era) and then creating a local game where the host sits and logs in as each player to locally upload the god. For the game I want to do it means running 4 servers and STILL having to accept emailed pretenders for any modded nations.

But yes, its a JK thing. Not one that will bother you as a player though.

[lch]

Gandalf Parker said:
Mods arent checked until the game is created (fatherland file) so modded nations do not show up in a network game as a choice. So those games can only be created manually as a local game.


Ah, now I see why I wasn't able to start my game remotely, it just wasn't possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Let me add to this: If I remember right, I was able to upload the gods for the mod nations remotely, just hitting on the "start game" button didn't have any effect. Maybe that had to do with them being nations that were not present in vanilla yet?


Gandalf Parker said:
Thats a hassle but for a game like this one it gets crazy. It means running 3 seperate network connections for uploading gods (early, mid, late era) and then creating a local game where the host sits and logs in as each player to locally upload the god.


Uhm, no. There is a far easier way: Create a local game (not networked one) like you want to host, and upload the gods manually during pretender creation. Then after the initial turn is generated, stop the game and use the files to host the game over the network. This is what I used for my game. Edit: Oops, now that I read through it again I think that's exactly what you're describing. Since pretenders can be overwritten while the host is looking for players I prefer to collect the pretender files via email, anyway.

[Baalz]

Yeah, just at a guess, but with this many good players in the game being a solid 1st place at this point may not be the best position to be in. It will indeed be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Gandalf Parker]

lch said:

Gandalf Parker said:
Thats a hassle but for a game like this one it gets crazy. It means running 3 seperate network connections for uploading gods (early, mid, late era) and then creating a local game where the host sits and logs in as each player to locally upload the god.


Uhm, no. There is a far easier way: Create a local game (not networked one) like you want to host, and upload the gods manually during pretender creation. Then after the initial turn is generated, stop the game and use the files to host the game over the network. This is what I used for my game. Edit: Oops, now that I read through it again I think that's exactly what you're describing. Since pretenders can be overwritten while the host is looking for players I prefer to collect the pretender files via email, anyway.



Yep that was the way I came up with.

Something I do not understand is why I cant create a game directory, put the pretender files in it, then tell it to create that game. That would not only help in these modded situations (if fixing the menu is too much to do) but it would also be a big help in setting up PbEM games.

[Xietor]

I will be out of town from 7/11-7/18. My replacement will be briefed as to my current diplomatic situation before i depart.

[Velusion]

Well since the only real object was withdrawn here is the score.html file for everyone to browse. People not in the game should find it even more interesting...

http:\\67.66.187.69\dominions3\Perpetuality_Scores .html

It should hopefully be automatically updated every turn.

If anyone wants to convert the saved score files I have to do some automatic html graphs let me know!

[LoloMo]

The monstrous EA Abysian Dragon Fulgor is no more, destroyed by horrors from beyond.

We take this moment to rejoice in the liberated former capital of the Fiery Serpent God. There is still much work to be done to cleanse the world of the legacy of Fulgor, but on this night, the destiny of the MA Ermorian nation have never been brighter.

[Lingchih]

I couldn't let the MegaGame drop off the front page.

MA Vanheim mas maliciously attacked LA Pan (me) without warning, apparently coming to the aid of the sniveling Caelum nation. So be it. We shall turn their vaunted Vans into manikins and grind the remainder into fertlizer.

[atul]

Velusion said:
It should hopefully be automatically updated every turn.


It would seem it isn't automagically updated. Not that it would be such a biggie, but it still bums me that the current hosting time is at 11am my time. How am I supposed to get anything done at work?

And fun facts about browsers. Apparently Firefox doesn't mind if you use backslashes in place of slashes in URL, but Safari does. Did take me some wondering why it doesn't work for me.

[Baalz]

Gotta tip my hat to FoodStamp, after a knock-down, drag out fight I had to pay for every inch in his last stand is quite the doozy. You just don't expect a 285 hp kitted immortal SC at this stage of the game! Hmmm, this is gonna take some thinking with my stymied research. Don't suppose I could entice you to come fight outside your (10!) dominion?

[llamabeast]

(apologies to everyone else for the off-topicness)

Gandalf and lch - I came up with an improved method for starting mod games. There's a thread about it in the main forum somewhere. Essentially it goes:

- Put all the pretenders in the game directory
- Open up the Dominions GUI
- Make sure the mod(s) are enabled
- Click "Create New Game"
- Click "Cancel"
- "Network"->"Host a game"
- Type in the name of the game (the same as the directory where the pretenders are).
- All of the mod nation pretenders will already be present.

(haven't got the game here, so the details may be slightly off)

The non-obvious and weird bit is the "Create New Game", "Cancel" bit. I think that makes it read the mod files.

The outstanding issue, then, is that we can't do it at all in text-only mode. This means I can't run mod nation games on the LlamaServer without a big faff, which is a pity - particularly because in future I hope to allow people to start games on the server entirely without my involvement, though some kind of "Create game" interface on the website. It would be nice if they could play with mod nations.

[lch]

llamabeast said:
The non-obvious and weird bit is the "Create New Game", "Cancel" bit. I think that makes it read the mod files.


Yup, I remember that thread.


llamabeast said:
The outstanding issue, then, is that we can't do it at all in text-only mode.


And that's exactly the problem that I have.

Plus, that there isn't a seperate binary for textmode servers, which does not depend on all the GL libraries.

[atul]

Baalz said:You just don't expect a 285 hp kitted immortal SC

Everyone just loves the Risen Oracle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

In other news, the last remains of the Utgårdian army have met their end after a valiant fight. Since only divine intervention can save them now, we count our blessings for the fact is that the old god is truly dead and unable to affect the world of living anymore.

[Salamander8]

After many turns of a quiet, if a vaguely cold-waresque existence between MA R'Lyeh and EA Abysia, things have just gotten interesting. Part of the problem of what just happened here is that he and I have only communicated via ingame messages rather than the faster IRC chat or PMs on the forums here. We ended up attacking the same neutral province (it was formerly Abysian, but I had made it known that MA R'Lyeh had designs on the 2 province island in question in the near future) on the same turn and it was not pretty for either side, although MA R'Lyeh did emerge as the victor, Ia! Shubburath Ftagn!

I had interpeted your force as either a retreated army from one of your many battles with MA Ermor, or a flanking force against him, not as a force for the re-conquest of the NW island province.

After this bloody miscommuncation, I strongly recommend to other players in any of these MP games to try faster communication channels (E-Mail, PM, or the IRC rooms) for fast and responsive diplomacy.

[DrPraetorious]

I strongly recommend despair!

A mere IRC channel will not be able to contain the depths of your wailing and lamentations as I crush you under my righteous heel. To really express the crushing despair that you will feel, you'll need to gather on the streets for bondage-themed performance art, with much wailing and lamentation and gnashing of teeth!

Once you have been purified by scourging yourselves to public derision, you'll be able to effectively coordinate your mass surrender to my magnificence.

[atul]

We are much relieved.

At first, the globals erected by Man were something to be wary of, for we knew not their purposes. But now all is clear - apparently the witches of Man, possibly one named aannn, aaann or aannnn even, realized to their horror the creeping insanity gripping the mind of their respected leader, and did cast Gift of Health just to cure him of his feeblemindedness that takes very sordid forms indeed. We are hoping success in their endeavour, for since Man turned on their previous ally Marverni and Marverni turned AI, not much has been heard from the Continent of Drama Queens.

[Velusion]

atul said:
...not much has been heard from the Continent of Drama Queens.



Har Har!

[DrPraetorious]

To clarify, we did not turn on Marverni.

We asked Marverni to stay in the game, he said that now he was revenged on *LA* (oops) Vanheim he didn't want to keep playing, he sent me all of his gold and gems (some may have went to other coalition members) and then skedaddled.

[atul]

I'm glad no-one took my poor post too seriously. After all, it was LA Vanheim that got beaten.

Anyway, I don't think anyone who had been following the situation thought Marverni was in condition to continue for long. Except as your vassal.

[vfb]

Greetings from the ghost of Marverni.

Having accomplished our goal of seeing to the destruction of the Midgard werewolves, we have achieved transcendence and now reside in spirit form in the trees of the forest. Of course, we were far too weak to destroy Midgard ourselves, being outnumbered approximately 2000 to 1, so we enlisted the aid of several of our neighbors. It was a miracle that we survived at all, actually. Only divine intervention at the last possible moment, when we were down to zero provinces and 6 units, allowed us to fight in the battle against the werewolf menace.

Once Midgard was destroyed, we had no desire to become embroiled in the conflicts between our former allies, so we jumped on our sacrificial knives, and that was it. The end.

[Kydorias]

With a deep intesity General Aithwyav's sharp eyes peered Southeast towards the highlands of Farseer Mountains. Already the leaves there darkened, gaining a brittleness unseen since the Seraphim Wars when the ancestors of the Raptor Clan were disovered practicing the blasphemous ways of the Dark Arts and were forced from the Kingdom. Even after the return of the Raptors and their now-limited knowledge of Death Majiks, the delicate balance between Growth and Death had been maintained to the benefit of the lush lands ruled by the Seraphs. Now once again the blight of Death spread, this time from a source wholly out of the realm and understanding of the Raptors.

Suddenly Aithwyav broke out of his fierce concentration, startled by the presence that seemingly materialized next to him.

"I feel it, Lord Aithwyav. And I cannot lie when I say it feels like it infuses me with pure, raw power. It is the force of Inevitability, of Oblivion, of Death. It excites me yet repulses me." Zbaurvant the Caretaker stood beside Aithwyav, his eyes glowing a strange purplish hue.

"Control yourself Caretaker, lest I decide in your disfavor to which side you truly belong." Aithwyav's eyes glared at Zbaurvant.

"No fear General. You know where my loyalties lie. I may have sworn the Way of Harab but what true family I cannot have now exists within the heart of our kin. And what we spy approaching does not bode well for us." Zbaurvant sighed and Aithwyav detected a note of regret in that loose of air.

"Yes, you are correct about your ill tidings. But know that if the time draws near, your heart will feel my Ice Blade before I allow you to taste the power you seemingly desire." Aithwyav ran his blade along his palm to increase the effect of his threat.

"Heh, no worries M'Lord. I expect you await news from our Soveriegn, Lady Serenity?" Zbaurvant inquired.

"Yes, and it worries me that we haven't yet received word from her. It was over two months ago that she and High Marshall Caelos left with the Army. I am now quite concerned." Aithwyav returned his Blade to its scabbard with an audible snap.

"As am I. Two weeks ago a Black Servant dispatched by Elder Grifec brought me word that Serenity had convinced Caelos to drive into Old Man Mountains. She knew that The Ashen Empire had annexed what was previously ours and seemed determined to gain it back." Zbuarvant waved his arm in the general direction of the Northeast, towards Old Man Mountains. Aithwyav blanched at hearing mentioned the name of the long lost dreaded Empire.

"I haven't received word since." Zbaurvant leaned heavily on his skull-encrusted staff.

"There." Aithwyav's gaze sharpened towards the North. A dark cloud appeared in the sky, gaining size until it crystallized into dozens of individual specks.

"So our Army returns." Muttered Zbaurvant. Squadron after squadron of Spire Archers alighted in the city of LA Caelum, reforming ranks as Squadronnaires barked orders. With a rush of wings, a Storm General landed heavily on the Central Tower next to Aithwyav.

"Greetings Lord Marshall." General Dashtayana bowed before Aithwyav.

"Brother, do not bow." With a smile and a thump, Aithwyav slapped Dashtayana on his back.

"I must my Lord. As much as I wish it were not so, I bring news that you are now Grand Marshall of the Army of Caelum." Dashtayana's gaze remained glued to the gleaming Ice Greaves worn by Aithwyav.

"What? But it cannot be so!" Exclaimed Aithwyav. "What of Serenity? Lord Caelos!"

"Gone Lord Marshall. Both ascended to whence they came. Both lost in a glorious fight but defeated nonetheless. Caelos wading in amongst hundreds of deathly warriors, shattering bone and helm as he bellowed his fury. Serenity herself laying waste to a Legion of Devils as they tried to cut down our Archers. But on they came, and there was nothing we could do to prevent the relentless tide washing over us." Dashtayana bowed even lower, if that was possible.

"It cannot be!" Aithwyav muttered.

"I'm afraid so Sir." Replied Dashtayana. "Losses were grievous for the Undead as well but you know they raise two more for every one we send back to the grave."

"Yes. I truly know. Very well. Reorganize our forces and get them fed and rested. More battles lie ahead and by the Gods we will acquit ourselves well. Maybe even pull out of this." With that declaration, Aithwyav strode back into the tower.
__________________________________________________ ___

OOC: The relentless tide of the Ashen Empire advances steadily. While the valiant forces of LA Caelum continue to fight a steady rearguard, they are inevitably pushed back before the oncoming tide.

Hope is not lost, however. The last essence of Serenity has yet to leave this land. Anyone interested or having the resources available to help stem the tide of Undead are encouraged to PM me and I shall provide coordinates for artillery strikes that will land amongst thousands of Undead.

Those bordering LA Ermor are encouraged to put aside any differences they may have with their living neighbors and lend their effort to stopping this scourge from spreading.

The time of LA Caelum may be nigh, but I will take five skeletal warriors down with each Caelumite Warrior that falls.

--LA Caelum

[LoloMo]

Post this in the History of Perpetuality thread also!

[Lingchih]

Very nice. Yes, definitely post it in the History thread. Too bad I can't join in the fun, but your ally Vanheim has me pinned up like a pinata.

[Kydorias]

LoloMo said:
Post this in the History of Perpetuality thread also!

Ah yes, I forgot about that. I will.

[Kydorias]

Lingchih said:Too bad I can't join in the fun, but your ally Vanheim has me pinned up like a pinata.

I'll be feeling your pain soon enough I fear.

[BigDisAwesome]

Well I'm out. Had a failed early conquest that weakened me up too much.

[Evilhomer]

Velusion the automatic score page doesn't seem to update automatically. It is stuck at turn 37, while the real game is at 40.

[Foodstamp]

Good fight Baalz. Thanks to a bug, my pretender did not respawn like he should have, so I concede the war to you. No sense in continuing since I lost the only weapon I had left.

[Baalz]

Aw, bummer on the respawn, I think I read somewhere that immortality doesn't kick in if you retreat into enemy territory (I guess maybe you're in a gray area without your dominion). At least you got your wish to leave hoards of eyeless soldiers in your wake. :/ Good fight man!

[Foodstamp]

Aye. The reason I think this is a bug is because I was able to kill SaintDude's Risen Oracle in a similar manner in a few games. His was not able to retreat before the time limit, so he exploded on the field. I think the game considers them both as dying in grey areas like you suggest, but I think there is a good argument for fixing it where if the battle took place in your dominion, then you get your immortal back.

I was a bit disappointed and shocked, but so it goes. A 4th nation had just started offensive maneuvers against me anyway so I was toast no matter what!

One tip for you Baalz. Know that your new neighbor uses NAPs as a means to sate an enemy he fears, just long enough to forge a massive alliance to defeat them.

I wish you the best, I had a lot of fun in our little war.

To the rest of you guys that attacked me after I went to war with Baalz. I hope your pretenders diaf.

[StrictlyRockers]

BigDisAwesome said:
Well I'm out. Had a failed early conquest that weakened me up too much.



You sure did. You most certainly had a failed early conquest. I hope you learned your lesson.

I had to kill almost 200 Helhirdings and Mounted Hirdmen to make my point. But I hope the point was made.

Wave after wave of scary double blessed fire-lancing ouchie ouchie nasty hasty quickness & attack boosted hackity hackity W9 F9 ugly big armies of Helheim cavalry invaded my lands. Several times the fronts moved back and forth. My home province was occupied twice.

Still, after all that effort. What dit it gain?

Decent effort on the battlefield. Poor effort at diplomacy. The only message ever recieved from EA Helheim was, you have a small and pathetic empire and we must now come and wipe you out. Ok.

Bye. Thanks for playing.

[Velusion]

StrictlyRockers said:
You sure did. You most certainly had a failed early conquest. I hope you learned your lesson.



Sore Winner of the month award!

[BigDisAwesome]

No kidding. I may be a jerk "in-game" at times, but geez. This guy takes the cake.

[Jazzepi]

Foodstamp said:
Aye. The reason I think this is a bug is because I was able to kill SaintDude's Risen Oracle in a similar manner in a few games. His was not able to retreat before the time limit, so he exploded on the field. I think the game considers them both as dying in grey areas like you suggest, but I think there is a good argument for fixing it where if the battle took place in your dominion, then you get your immortal back.

I was a bit disappointed and shocked, but so it goes. A 4th nation had just started offensive maneuvers against me anyway so I was toast no matter what!

One tip for you Baalz. Know that your new neighbor uses NAPs as a means to sate an enemy he fears, just long enough to forge a massive alliance to defeat them.

I wish you the best, I had a lot of fun in our little war.

To the rest of you guys that attacked me after I went to war with Baalz. I hope your pretenders diaf.



I can confirm this happened in the Armadillo game as well. I was extremely surprised when the Argatha opponent's risen oracle died, unable to retreat after routing, on the battlefield and then never came back.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Ah, *I* wanted the sore winner of the month award!

Doesn't threatening to piss on the corpses of my defeated foes count for something?

[Baalz]

DrPraetorious said:
Ah, *I* wanted the sore winner of the month award!

Doesn't threatening to piss on the corpses of my defeated foes count for something?



Aw come on, did anybody else see that +2 awe + fear +21 protection +eye sheild + immune to almost anything 300 FRICKING HP risen oracle I had to slay with difficult research to take my win?!?! I should totally get winner of the month. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Anybody think of a good use for a hundred blind Jaguar Warriors and imps?

[Jazzepi]

Blood sacrifices!

Jazzepi

[vfb]

Bats might be a good plan for Mictlan against an Eye Shield (next time). Plus you'd get a good excuse to make "You can't stop here this is bat country" posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Your Jag Warriors have a good chance to heal their afflictions next time they shape change. Your Imps are only strength 9, but they fly and don't eat and are maintenance free, so they'd be worth keeping around to either tear down or repair castle walls.

[Foodstamp]

vfb said:
Bats might be a good plan for Mictlan against an Eye Shield (next time). Plus you'd get a good excuse to make "You can't stop here this is bat country" posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Your Jag Warriors have a good chance to heal their afflictions next time they shape change. Your Imps are only strength 9, but they fly and don't eat and are maintenance free, so they'd be worth keeping around to either tear down or repair castle walls.



VFB,

A fear and loathing quote? You always crack me up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

You get the Mr. Congeniality award.

As far as the immortality bug goes. I think Baalz is right, I think it is working as intended. I just believe it should not be intended to work that way because it doesn't really make sense as far as how immortality works. I felt bad doing it to SaintDude and now I feel even worse being on the receiving end of it. Karma.

[Wikd Thots]

BigDisAwesome said:
No kidding. I may be a jerk "in-game" at times, but geez. This guy takes the cake.


I am very disapointed with myself. I really meant to take that title myself. I promise, next game I will try harder.

[StrictlyRockers]

Whatever dude. Thanks for the game. You fought bravely.

[RamsHead]

Oh no you don't! You can't declare war upon us! We declare war upon you! We shall slaughter your forces and kill your leaders! Their entrails shall be strewn about the cities! The sheer sight of our carnage will make children weep and women defecate on the spot! We will be a blight on your lands, and your nation will fall! EA C'tis asks but one thing from its neighbors: Do any of you know where Lanka is located? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Lingchih]

Lanka is located... hmm. Oh yeah, all our war reporters got killed. I guess you'll have to find them on your own.

-- You know what pisses me off? A whole boatload of Vans that you can't see... that's what pisses me off.

[Kydorias]

Whew. Desperately trying to fight a failed rearguard against several thousand Undead pouring into your lands isn't fun.

I gotta say. If you folks that border LA Ermor aren't desperately scrambling to form an alliance against the Horde then you're making a big mistake.

Anyway, cheers to the last stand of the LA Caelumites. If I manage to take out 1/4 of the 3000 Undead about to hit my last castle I'll consider it a success, hehe.

[Evilhomer]

Any chance you can get the Perpetuality_Scores.html page to work vel ? It would be fun to see how things have changed.

[Xietor]

I am back from vacation. Just in time it seems.

Our swamps have been invaded by some funny looking creatures from LA Atlantis and MA Oceania. Just as well, since our lizards were getting tired of eating the same tedious fare. New meat for the pots!

Our spies have reported that many of the invaders have leprosy, and that their skin is falling from their bones. That is a shame, as lizards do not dine on diseased meat.

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
Any chance you can get the Perpetuality_Scores.html page to work vel ? It would be fun to see how things have changed.



I'm not sure why it isn't updating... manually did it this time... we'll see if I can get it to work in the future.

[Xietor]

Tidbit:

And for my neighbor that has expressed concern about blood magic, LA Atlantis' pretender started with 4 blood magic.

[Gandalf Parker]

Velusion said:

Evilhomer said:
Any chance you can get the Perpetuality_Scores.html page to work vel ? It would be fun to see how things have changed.



I'm not sure why it isn't updating... manually did it this time... we'll see if I can get it to work in the future.


CRONing it?
Owner of script doesnt have the authority to overwrite the owner of the file?

[jutetrea]

What's up with the host timing?

[Velusion]

Server was restarted to night before last.

Make sure and check the "Velusion's server info" for this sort of thing.

[LoloMo]

Hmm, in one of my provinces, it appears that reanimation did not work. The corpses are still there, and the reanimation orders are still there, but no long dead horsemen.

Reanimation seemed to work in two other provinces I had.

Anyone else confirm this is happening?

A very suspicious coincidence is that if you add up all the troops, it comes out to exactly 75,000 minus 62 (from the scores page).

[Lingchih]

Time to go to war then, eh?

[jutetrea]

So, How's it going?

Is the game a success? Too much? Too Big? Cool to see the various ages interacting? Settings working out?

Turn 42 and quite a few are out already.

17 Defeated
7 Gone AI
= 24/62 Humans out of the game

Out of those:
11/22 EA Nations (50%)
9/22 MA Nations (41%)
4/18 LA Nations (22%)

1/8 Water Nations (12.5%)
23/54 Land Nations (42.5%)

Initial thoughts seem to be holding out, Early nations being weaker in the beginning, Late age stronger. Will be interesting to see if the LA nations will be able to hold onto their gains as magic becomes more prevalent.

Water Nations are doing very well early on, 7/8 still surviving and doing well.

Any surprises so far? Players you thought may be defeated that are still holding on (ME!!!), Players you thought might last longer? Surprising nations notwithstanding players?

Predictions? Some pretty hefty leads on troops, provinces, dominion and research so far. Will coalitions such as recently suggested by LA Atlantis knock off the leaders? I could see the game becoming very polarized in short order.

Personally I'm not liking difficult research. I still want a mod that does easy/normal research for the first 3 levels and then moves to difficult 4-7 and very difficult for 8-9. Conj 3 for apsu was painful as I wasn't initially going Conj. Anyway, while my little microcosm doesn't like difficult research, seems like some nations aren't bothered by it *points at LA Ry'leh*.

Kind of disliking the site setting as well, seems low. But again, realizing that there would be TONS of gems floating around if not (even more so than have to be). Late game is going to be disgusting as is. Again, in my little microcosm I wish there were more sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Wondering if future games such as this should have a turn limit, say 60 turns. Develop a scoring system and declare a winner? Obviously have to see how this turns out, but just imaging micro'ing one of the last 4 nations!

EDIT: Actually a composite scoring system would be pretty cool. Just to give a bird's eye view on the leaders. Weight the different categories per nations (i.e. income not being worth as much for LA Ermor as for EA Ulm), Add scores to the various measuring units (+1 pt per province, +1 pt per 50 income, +1 pt per 50 dominion, etc) analyze by weight and come out with a #. Obviously not perfect as it wouldn't take into consideration troop quality, SC's or position, but would still be nice to see.

Any thoughts?

[Hadrian_II]

It seems that we hit some troop border, as i did not get maenads this turn, but when i look at the graphs it does not look like LA ermor & rlyeh where affected also.

btw when i did not make typos, now are 76725 units in the game.

[LoloMo]

I stand corrected, I recounted and it is 76725.

[atul]

Looks really strange on the army graphs, Pangaea's line flatlines while others still grow or shrink. But at least I got all my recruits and summons, to the last yumbral. Anyway there have been strange events all the time, my scout reports haven't been reliably delivered ever since R'lyeh cast the Eye.

[Gandalf Parker]

jutetrea said:
Personally I'm not liking difficult research.

Kind of disliking the site setting as well, seems low.

Wondering if future games such as this should have a turn limit, say 60 turns.

Develop a scoring system and declare a winner?

Obviously have to see how this turns out, but just imaging micro'ing one of the last 4 nations!



Thanks for the breakdown on numbers. Very informative.
And the ideas are good also.

Personally I would have liked for the game to run totally vanilla and default settings for the first game so that we could get some real answers on all of that.

I suppose I could. But Im probably going to end up waiting until enough of these have run to make it worth doing one at the other end of that scale. Full chaos mode.

[Tyrant]

jutetrea said:

Is the game a success? Too much? Too Big? Cool to see the various ages interacting? Settings working out?



I'm having a good time. I'm glad i joined, but i'm not sure that i will play the next one- i'm anti-diplomacy and it's not optional in this one. The interaction of the ages is definatly one of the highlights for me.


Turn 42 and quite a few are out already.



I expected faster attrition, i'm thinking that having lots of neighbors made people cautious about quick strikes.



1/8 Water Nations (12.5%)
23/54 Land Nations (42.5%)

Water Nations are doing very well early on, 7/8 still surviving and doing well.




This is not a surprise, i felt water was the place to be and was absolutely shocked when i saw the draft results- i think me (MA Oceania) and Dreamlands were the only water nations that did not get a bonus! What i now understand though is that the amphibious nations are extra cool. Being able to hide from land powers in the water and from water powers on the land is a major strategic benefit.



Predictions? Some pretty hefty leads on troops, provinces, dominion and research so far. Will coalitions such as recently suggested by LA Atlantis knock off the leaders? I could see the game becoming very polarized in short order.



I'm thinkin' it will be a three way between R'lyeh and their vassals ("The Warsaw Pact"), the Big Alliance ("NATO") and Ermor ("Red China"), but that's pretty speculative- my little Seagulls of Death have been busy, but it's a big map and my info is, of course, incomplete.



Personally I'm not liking difficult research.



It bugs me too, but i still think it's nessicary to prevent utter chaos.



Wondering if future games such as this should have a turn limit, say 60 turns. Develop a scoring system and declare a winner? Obviously have to see how this turns out, but just imaging micro'ing one of the last 4 nations!



I think "points at turn x" is a fine way of playing in a general sence, but 60 is too short and for a game this big i'd perfectly happy to just play to turn X and call it a wrap.

[Velusion]

jutetrea said:
Initial thoughts seem to be holding out, Early nations being weaker in the beginning, Late age stronger. Will be interesting to see if the LA nations will be able to hold onto their gains as magic becomes more prevalent.




Actually the early age has much better bless rushers so I thought they would do better. Its really more about diplomacy though than capabilities.


jutetrea said:
Water Nations are doing very well early on, 7/8 still surviving and doing well.




The map is definitely water friendly - but we'll see how much that translates into late game.


jutetrea said:
Predictions? Some pretty hefty leads on troops, provinces, dominion and research so far. Will coalitions such as recently suggested by LA Atlantis knock off the leaders? I could see the game becoming very polarized in short order.




It's turning into WWI with large webs of alliances/pacts.


jutetrea said:
Personally I'm not liking difficult research. I still want a mod that does easy/normal research for the first 3 levels and then moves to difficult 4-7 and very difficult for 8-9. Conj 3 for apsu was painful as I wasn't initially going Conj. Anyway, while my little microcosm doesn't like difficult research, seems like some nations aren't bothered by it *points at LA Ry'leh*.




Yep I like your suggested model better - but the current setting is better than the normal setting.


jutetrea said:
Kind of disliking the site setting as well, seems low. But again, realizing that there would be TONS of gems floating around if not (even more so than have to be). Late game is going to be disgusting as is. Again, in my little microcosm I wish there were more sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




I personally think that too many MP games over-saturate with gem sites, so I'm fine with the recommended average.


jutetrea said:
Wondering if future games such as this should have a turn limit, say 60 turns. Develop a scoring system and declare a winner? Obviously have to see how this turns out, but just imaging micro'ing one of the last 4 nations!




I think that 60 turns is way to low - but I could see 120 turns as possibility. Perhaps I'll see if we can get everyone to agree on a set end time for this one.


jutetrea said:
Any thoughts?



Eh - simple provinces work for me. Its all about conquest - everything else is just a tool to get you there.

[Velusion]

My biggest surprise was how average (with a few exceptions) the typical bless rush nations have done. Lanka is doing very, very well but otherwise most of the heims are either eliminated or about average in the graphs.

[Salamander8]

It's been a lot of fun and I've been involved with a fair chunk of diplomacy as well. I concur with Tyrant about being in the water too. My lack of MP experience making me desire to hide beneath the waves combined with MA R'Lyeh being my favorite nation, made my first choice pretty easy.

Personally I like low-average site frequency and don't mind the difficult research, although in my SP games I tend to leave it at normal.

The gigantic map means that a large chunk of it is not visible to me, so all these massive power bloc struggles have not touched my borders yet. I am witnessing a lot of conflict to my north, but the long fight between the more southerly land powers near me is over with EA Abysia being defeated.

I'll be looking forward to joining more of these monster games in the future, especially with nation selection like this.

[atul]

Well, there has been a quite strong tendency to gang up on rushers. We're watching our neighbours on intensity that would put old women in small villages to shame. Can't say anything about proper bless nations since we don't have any up here in NE continent (except EA Oceania, but that isn't discussed in polite circles), but at least Midgård's rush proved to be quite fatal when he was ganged up quite badly.

[Jazzepi]

I had a few thoughts about what happened, my main one being that being jammed into a corner on a map this size is a ridiculously huge advantage. Man was able to attack me without fear of an opportunistic strike from behind, or the sides, because he was stuck in the corner bordering only 3 nations, with no nation at his back. Whereas Midgard was touching no less than 8 nations.

I would recommend that in the future the map be wrap around if at all possible. I'm actually really disappointed the automatic map generator doesn't have a nice way of making wrap around maps.

Also, I'm still very new at this game, and I had a terrible pretender/scales choice, even if the strategy I went with was sound. I really didn't spend as much time as I wanted creating my pretender for this game.

Jazzepi

[Gandalf Parker]

I would love to run one on a tower map (tall and thin, only room for an enemy on each side of you). But it would need to be wrapped top-to-bottom, and the game cant handle that without blowing up

[Szumo]

I am pleasingly suprised by my pretender's performance. Only 99 more kills to a round thousand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Having an SC was really really useful in early game. Does not matter that much anymore of course, now that really powerful magic is starting to appear.

[LoloMo]

I am really enjoying this game too. But to do well, diplomacy is the most important. A more strategic map can be thought up, for example, a Map that is made of a series of concentric rings. At its simplest, the outer most ring would have 62 provinces, the next one would have 31 provinces, then 15, then 7, down to the last province in the center. Winning can be by victory points in the inner circles.

Then we can use the random special province mods for every province, mod out all teleportation spells. Set income, gems, resource to max. This way we have a very nice and tight fight or die map with diplomacy having less effect at the beginning, although it would still be important later in the game.

[Micah]

Gandalf, about the tower map wraparound, couldn't you just manually edit the connections between the top and bottom provinces so they're connected? I haven't done any mapping but I had the impression that province connections were editable, and there would only be a few provinces that needed to be tweaked.

[atul]

Jazzepi said:being jammed into a corner on a map this size is a ridiculously huge advantage. Man was able to attack me without fear of an opportunistic strike from behind, or the sides, because he was stuck in the corner

Seconding the notion about the advantage of being in the corner. In addition to that Man did play his cards right there, with biding his time before attacking you, going straight at the capital and reaping the rewards of several nations' efforts. Now he's quite clearly the biggest guy in the continent, with few nations being able to be more than mere speed bumps. But Midgård starting essentially in the middle of everything was quite a raw deal.

Wraparound would be a good thing, it might also help to make sure no isolated land masses are left stranded by seas as is the case now.

But hey, a fun game. I'd be taking part in another like this too, maybe not the extreme kind LoloMo proposes, though.

[Jazzepi]

I definitely enjoyed myself even though I got reamed by four nations at once ;P It was an interesting experience.

One of the big things that hurt me is that I didn't think hard enough about my neighbors. What I should have done is demanded vassalage from EA Maverni instead of attacking vfb, as he was more than willing to pay item tribute to keep me off his back. Then I could have gone after C'Tis who had no good early-mid game counter to a billion skin shifters. Unfortunately, for me I didn't really pay attention to what the makeups of the other nations around me were, which speaks to my inexperience at this game.

It also would have given me more time to develop my research towards storm + mist.

Also, vfb is the noisiest mother in the world when he's getting attacked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jazzepi

[Folket]

"Predictions? Some pretty hefty leads on troops, provinces, dominion and research so far. Will coalitions such as recently suggested by LA Atlantis knock off the leaders? I could see the game becoming very polarized in short order. "

I would not call that a coalition to knock off leaders. Given that LA Atlantis has just as many provinces it's just him wanting help to get rid of competition.

[Lingchih]

I'm getting a bug where I can't see one of my commanders on the map province screen. She shows up in the army setup list, but not on the map screen, so I can't give her any general orders.

???

[atul]

Uh, sorry to ask this, but gotta make sure... You sure he isn't just last of the group and you'd see him if you scrolled down the map commander view? The down arrow has confused people before, it's quite hard to spot (to right of the bottom row of commanders displayed on map).

EDIT: and oh, I didn't know province count was THE big factor. Always thought the gem income and research were the graphs to look at. But you learn something each day. I'm relieved to know R'lyeh isn't the top dog after all. Canceling all the blights, then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Lingchih]

Thanks. Still took me 5 minutes to finally spot it. Guess I've never had that many commanders in one place before. You can tell I don't play Ermor.

[Jazzepi]

Friends don't let friends play Emor.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

GP - I recall that the "ring world" maps wrap just fine. Technically they wrap in both x and y but if there are no province connections going from top to bottom, it's effectively a single strip.

[RamsHead]

Hey, Man, didn't we have a NAP?

[DrPraetorious]

No, we don't. I was quite careful never to agree to one, although you did mention that you wanted one.

I have stored copies of all forum communications, but I'm quite sure I never agreed to one in-game, either.

This is one of the reasons I was so paranoid about you attacking *me*, earlier on.

[Ballbarian]

LoloMo said:
A more strategic map can be thought up, for example, a Map that is made of a series of concentric rings. At its simplest, the outer most ring would have 62 provinces, the next one would have 31 provinces, then 15, then 7, down to the last province in the center. Winning can be by victory points in the inner circles.



Your post prompted me to put the finishing touches on a small map idea that I had started back when I was working on my (never-to-be-finished) map editor.

I posted it in the map/mod forum:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=537867

I will go back to lurking quietly now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Xietor]

MA Ctis is happy to report that all of the strange creatures from LA Atlantis and MA Oceania that recklessly invaded our peaceful swamps have ended up in the cooking pots. Every single one. Of the 400 LA Atlantis creatures and the Trident Lord and his mounted armies that entered the Swamps not a trace remains.

All of MA Ctis lands have been reclaimed in one wild night of retribution.

[tibbs]

We've heard reports that LA Ryleh used mind hunts to eliminate the Atlantian's commanders. Just another reason for all water nations AND land nations to descend upon Ryleh.

[Xietor]

though you may have heard rumors to that effect, LA Atlantis had 5 mages and a prophet at the big battle and all of his troops. His mages had gems, a skull staff, a bag of air, 3 bottles of water, boots messenger, robe of the sea, wineskin. He lost the fight fair and square.

And last i checked, MA Ctis is on the north of the map, and LA Rlyeh is on the south. It seems like the alliance's armies are headed in the wrong direction if they want to reach LA Rlyeh.

I am not allied with any super power-much less LA Rlyeh. Though I am allied with MA pythium-as you darn well know. A brief check will reveal that Pythium is an astral nation. And though it may surprise you, I can mind hunt as well. MA Man can attest I made a s1 booster item for him ages ago.

* as an aside, MA Ctis is fighting 1 against 4. And YOU are crying that it is not a fair fight?

[Lingchih]

LA Pangaea is officially changing the name of it's land. It shall now be called Southern Vanheim.

[Evilhomer]

So how is things going for you all ?

[Yucky]

Interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

By far the funnest Dominions game ever for me.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm doing fairly well, but I'm not sure how I'm ever going to get into/across the water.

[Arameyan]

This game is interesting. It's quite scary to heard that a player already have most lvl 8 items and the elemental royalty...

[Shuma]

I've had a terrible time turning in my moves lately. I think I staled last turn even though I thought I turned them in. And yesterday I planned out all my moves, hit "E", and the game blew up. I'll have to try again today.

Don't AI me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Amhazair]

DrPraetorious said:
I'm doing fairly well, but I'm not sure how I'm ever going to get into/across the water.



If you insist I might be convinced to accept your vaselage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Xietor]

What race do you play? I do not see you listed on the 1st post of the thread that lists all the players.

[Velusion]

Arameyan said:
This game is interesting. It's quite scary to heard that a player already have most lvl 8 items and the elemental royalty...



I've been saying "LA R'lyeh is winning! LA R'lyeh is winning!" for quite awhile now. It's real, it's happening - LA R'lyeh is dominating every graph that matters, he has all the powerful summons and all the significant artifacts. Eventually (and this is fast approaching) a critical mass point will be reached and there will be no feasible way to stop him.

While I sympathize with Xietor and am glad he is doing better - LA Atlantis and his allies are not the biggest threat at the moment. LA R'lyeh is. If left alone he will gobble up everyone weak on land and then start working into the bigger players.

[Xietor]

Velusion,

Since Lanka LA Man La Atlantis and MA Oceania are throwing armies, gold and gems at me(and i own what 15 or so provinces), how do you expect anyone to take LA Atlantis cry for help seriously?

But do not feel sympathy for MA Ctis, feel sympathy for those attacking me.

[DrPraetorious]

Well, people are continuing to capitulate.

LA R'lyeh will threaten his neighbors with destruction unless bribed to leave them alone, and they are agreeing.

So no united front is forming and it appears likely that LA R'lyeh will advance unopposed.

I don't think it's possible, given the combined gem income of the rest of the world, for him to become invincible just by sitting there and researching and making supercombatants. But if he can do that *AND* continue to expand, there's not a lot we can do.

P.S. - the proper course of action is to identify those who have capitulated/aided/sided with LA R'lyeh, and to destroy them mercilessly. I know of only one example: LA Patala. He must be killed with dispatch and immediacy.

[Hadrian_II]

Even if LA Rlyeh is looking strong, dont forget about ermor. Now he should have enough research, so that when he becomes threatened, he will be able to cast BoT and Utterdark and then a lot of nations will look very bleak.

[Velusion]

Hadrian_II said:
Even if LA Rlyeh is looking strong, dont forget about ermor. Now he should have enough research, so that when he becomes threatened, he will be able to cast BoT and Utterdark and then a lot of nations will look very bleak.



*shrugs* either would just get dispelled. I'm not going to be casting either of those this game.

[tibbs]

I think ermor is a lot easier to deal with than Ryleh. I would hope by now that all the other underwater nations would have some plan formed against Ryleh by now, but who knows....

[Hadrian_II]

Velusion said:

Hadrian_II said:
Even if LA Rlyeh is looking strong, dont forget about ermor. Now he should have enough research, so that when he becomes threatened, he will be able to cast BoT and Utterdark and then a lot of nations will look very bleak.



*shrugs* either would just get dispelled. I'm not going to be casting either of those this game.



afaik when you cast utterdark, the next turn its already working --> that means -90% income = not enough money to pay for the upkeep = mass desertations = everyone who has not lots of troops that dont cost upkeep will be very death.

[Salamander8]

tibbs said:
I think ermor is a lot easier to deal with than Ryleh. I would hope by now that all the other underwater nations would have some plan formed against Ryleh by now, but who knows....



I have only seen 1 other water nation so far, and it's not LA R'Lyeh. I really don't know where my younger, crazier cousin is.

[Velusion]

Hadrian_II said:

Velusion said:

Hadrian_II said:
Even if LA Rlyeh is looking strong, dont forget about ermor. Now he should have enough research, so that when he becomes threatened, he will be able to cast BoT and Utterdark and then a lot of nations will look very bleak.



*shrugs* either would just get dispelled. I'm not going to be casting either of those this game.



afaik when you cast utterdark, the next turn its already working --> that means -90% income = not enough money to pay for the upkeep = mass desertations = everyone who has not lots of troops that dont cost upkeep will be very death.



The mass desertion is not "all at once" but drags out over many turns.. If it was dispelled the next turn or the turn after it was cast the end effect would be a very minimal. Leaders are exempted from desertion.

Again I have no intention of even trying to cast Utterdark or BoT. To many people here to bring it down. LA R'yleh would love for me to cast it - it would take some of the heat off of him.

[LoloMo]

If you were to make a firm commitment that you will NOT cast BoT or Utterdark for the entire game, even at the cost of complete Victory or utter Annihalation, then I think the pressure would certainly shift towards LA R'lyeh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Sounds like a political barter.
I will sign a world-pact that I will NOT cast forth the dreadful magics of.......... in return for a united nations sanction against the dreadful nation of .........

[DrPraetorious]

Can we get the blood nations to commit not to cast Astral Corruption?

Actually, the way things are developing, R'lyeh will probably branch into blood magic and cast it himself.

[Folket]

Me, casting astral corruption? That must be the stupidest thing I can ever do. LA R'leyh is the second hardest nation to branch into blood, after LA Ermor. I do not have many provinces over water and my dominion is killing off my population. Without my astral magic I have nothing to come with.

As far as I know there is just whining in this thread. I'm far, very very far from wining the game. I'm not expanding closly as much as EA Oceania or LA Atlantis. My dominion is killing my income.

[Evilhomer]

Yeah people have an irrational amount of fear about LA Rlyeh, LA ermor is the real threat people need to work against for sure. Look what he did to poor niefelheim and that guy was using a killer bless, people need to unite or he will kill all one by one !

[atul]

DrPraetorious said:
I know of only one example: LA Patala. He must be killed with dispatch and immediacy.

Naturally it would make alliance-forging much easier if people won't try to twist reality to match their current short-term (near-sighted) goals. What good to anti-R'lyeh alliance does using it to attack the reputation of a nation that has been valiantly defending itself from Man's lapdog?

Unless, of course, we should all capitulate to Man's rule lest R'lyeh win? Right. Makes, um, "sense". We thank again for the insight of Knight Bright Insight (61+).

Naturally, an agreement to bring the leader down is a good thing. However, needless smear-campaigns are less so.

[Digress]

Evilhomer said:
people have an irrational amount of fear about LA Rlyeh ....



I for one seem possessed by a degree of irrational fear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

EA Ermor has bitten the dust after being overrun by the starved, disease ridden barrel-scrapings of LA R'yleh (I assume their first class troops are being used elsewhere).

EA Ermor has been set to AI and I wish all those who aim to curb LA R'yleh well. I am not bitter .... but in every game I play where there is LA R'yleh represented, it is located next door and ain't friendly.

[DrPraetorious]

I know for a fact that Patala had the sword Augelmeyer.

The only way he could've gotten it would be to buy it from R'lyeh - or to be loaned it, just for the sake of hurting other potential enemies.

Therefore, Patala is allied with R'lyeh. I would guess that he's also been capitulating to R'lyehs other demands, but I don't know that for a fact.

[Jazzepi]

RamsHead said:
Hey, Man, didn't we have a NAP?



*booo* The ghost of Midgard can now happily say "I told you so."

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Jazzepi

[atul]

DrPraetorious said:Patala had the sword Augelmeyer.

The only way he could've gotten it would be to buy it from R'lyeh

Therefore, Patala is allied with R'lyeh.

So, a succesful transaction of goods equals alliance? Great! They must be telling the grand truth when they say economic relations enforce peace.

MA Agartha is happy to know they're among the allies of Man, after all, they've exchanged goods before as proven by message exchanges properly archived. A nation of dying race can't have too many friends!

[DrPraetorious]

Wait... MA Agartha? I didn't trade anything with MA Agartha.

I did trade with both MA C"tis and LA Atlantis.

The point is, since R'lyeh is so dominant, no mutually beneficial relations of any kind can be tolerated. The first thing we need to do is conquer all of R'lyehs neighbours who are *not* obviously at war with R'lyeh.

[Velusion]

What are everyone's thoughts on establishing a set turn where we end the game? My proposal:

Victory Conditions: The surrendering of all other players or 650 provinces controlled or the most provinces controlled by turn 125 (whichever comes first). Ties for the latter would be broken by the amount of provinces held the previous turn.

I'm in a large game now that is on turn 101 - so I don't think that 125 is unattainable.

We would need the buy-in of at least 90% of the players to make this change...

[jutetrea]

Ok, I let a tangent run away from me, I'm gonna keep it there but its pretty irrelevant (and long-windedly useless).

125 Should be fine, we've already got folks dominating research/construction/summons at turn 44. From then on its just strategy. 40% are out already, another good chunk will be out by 80 and by 125 I bet the remaining 5-10 will be sick of the micro http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I passed my goal of turn 20, not going to win, so I'm good whenever.


Tangent Ramble
--------------------------------------------------------
Even though I suggested turn 60 earlier, I was thinking along the lines of future games where it would be like a distinct subsection of the whole.

62 nations, many never see each other physically, but hear about their activities. Diplomats get sent, trade agreements, etc. 60 months pass and a whole lot of stuff happens, maybe a very peaceful corner just plays tiddlywinks while the rest of the world is embroiled in war. Turn 60 (more likely 80), everything gets tallied, winner declared and everyone finishes it off single player while the next game is set up. Possibly have multiple winners, highest research, provinces, income, etc. Start a "big board" to keep score and update it every couple of months.

Variations of that would be a Early Age, Mid Age, Late Age scenario.
Early Age - this game, everyone starts at 0 on everything
Mid Age - 40 nations, Start with x sages to simulate research, x provinces, x gems/known sites/etc, x gold/pop, x turn global NAP. Try to simulate turn 40. Ironhawk had a couple games like this and they seemed fun.
Late Age - 20 nations, x sages/gold/provinces, etc and then go at it after x turns. Try to simulate turn 80.

Possibly even run it as a tourney... hmm.

When the early (perpetuality-type) is down to 40 players, stop and declare winners. Winners get a gold star and a hug from KO.
Start up the "mid-game" with enhanced starting positions to simulate turn 40. Everything is nice and clean, very little micro, tons of cash to play with and a set of turns to do so. Play until 20 are left. Once down to 20, declare winners, get yer hugs.
Start up a "late-game" with those 20, simulating turn 80. All your research is advanced (tons of free sages or a mod), upkeep is manageable, everything is clean, set everything up like you want, etc. Gives everyone a renewed chance at summons/artifacts, new sites, etc. Play down to 1.

A few weeks after the mid game has started, start up another early game, rinse, repeat. Or possibly skip the whole Mid-game idea and go right late game.

[LoloMo]

Can this game be won by an alliance instead?
For example: Max of 5 nations per alliance. Alliance has to be declared formally on these boards 5 turns in advance. Alliance that holds 650 provinces for 3 turns in succession after the 5 turn official notice wins.

[Velusion]

LoloMo said:
Can this game be won by an alliance instead?
For example: Max of 5 nations per alliance. Alliance has to be declared formally on these boards 5 turns in advance. Alliance that holds 650 provinces for 3 turns in succession after the 5 turn official notice wins.



Officially no. That was never part of the Victory Conditions and I'm sure some people might have been playing differently if was.

[Salamander8]

That would be interesting for the next megagame. One of the things I wish this game had was a more detailed diplomacy/cooperation engine. I know it's built around 1 god only can live to the end, but as an option for these MP games, I would love to see more detailed things like: supplying foreign troops, cooperation, land grants, etc.

[Folket]

I'm sorry but I have turned ill. I propose you wait with hosting until Evilhomer can find a new sub or that I feel well again.

I do not believe LA R'lyeh will have any chances of winning the game. Since LA Ermor, LA Atlantis and EA Lanka are allied and have several other mid sized nation allied to them as well a winner will probably be picked out of that alliance.

[Hadrian_II]

I would not create a fix time for victory, as aslong people want to play let them play (or is there a significant part already bored of the game??). If one is too far in front, its always possible to gang on him, and if that does not work declare him winner.

[Fal]

Digress said:

Evilhomer said:
people have an irrational amount of fear about LA Rlyeh ....



I for one seem possessed by a degree of irrational fear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

EA Ermor has bitten the dust after being overrun by the starved, disease ridden barrel-scrapings of LA R'yleh (I assume their first class troops are being used elsewhere).

EA Ermor has been set to AI and I wish all those who aim to curb LA R'yleh well. I am not bitter .... but in every game I play where there is LA R'yleh represented, it is located next door and ain't friendly.



Particularly after I donated all my gold and gems to LA R'lyeh to destroy you and the giants to the north...those backstabbers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

But I must agree with you that LA R'lyeh is probably the most annoying nation in the game...

[Velusion]

Folket said:
I'm sorry but I have turned ill. I propose you wait with hosting until Evilhomer can find a new sub or that I feel well again.




I'll start looking for a sub now. This might cause a delay in hosting since LA R'lyeh affects so many people.

Folket, let us know when you are back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Arameyan]

atul said:
Naturally it would make alliance-forging much easier if people won't try to twist reality to match their current short-term (near-sighted) goals. What good to anti-R'lyeh alliance does using it to attack the reputation of a nation that has been valiantly defending itself from Man's lapdog?




The war between Patala and me (LA Ctis) doesn't concern Ma Man in any way. And honestly, and don't see why it concerns you. But yes, Patala is valiantly defending himself. Lucky/ethereal elephants can trample an impressive number of lizards before being stopped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It's about my fourth Dom3 multiplayer game, and I'm learning a lot. Especially about diplomacy and economics between players.

If it please you, you can insult me because I'm smaller than my ally. Have fun!

Arameyan

[Velusion]

Velusion said:

I'll start looking for a sub now. This might cause a delay in hosting since LA R'lyeh affects so many people.




As someone pointed out allowing a delay for the game for a powerful player isn't exactly fair when I've been turning them down for smaller ones. So there will be no delay. Hopefully we will find a sub soon!

[DrPraetorious]

ACCUSATIONS!

It has been asserted that LA R'yleh is backing up MA C'tis with Mind Hunt. MA C'tis is already getting gangbanged, so it really doesn't matter if this is true from that point.

However, this also implicates MA Pythium - possibly MA T'ien Ch'i as well.

These nations are far from me, but I think you should eliminate them all, just be safe.

[Hadrian_II]

Lets start the Rlyeh witchhunt, everyone accused has to denounce at least 2 other nations to be influenced by the void or else the fun will end way too soon.

btw. i have some information, that some people in this game actually share the bed with ermor.

Also who does say that it was not ermor who casted the mind hunts, so that it looks like rlyeh was it and you can begin to attack nations that ermor knows that would never join him.

You cant forget, that even when Rlyeh is strong, the real evil comes from Ermor, and that every bad event that happens to you is actually the doing of ermorian agents.

And at the end some question, how can you say who has cast the mindhunts, afaik they are anonymous, so nations like marignon, pythium, the other rlyes, arco, thien chi could also easily be behind this.

p.s. the next big game, i will take MA Marignon, just for the sake of RPG

[Velusion]

*scratches off MA Pangaea (Hadrian II) from his Christmas card list*

MA Pangaea and LA R'lyeh siting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I...

[BigDisAwesome]

Well I guess it's ok that I got knocked out of this game. I gave LA Ry'leh a Dwarven Hammer to get him to agree to a NAP early on in the game. It mostly benefited me cause there was no way I was going into the water then, but if it was still intact I guess I'd be pretty high on everyones [censored] list.

[Hadrian_II]

Velusion said:
*scratches off MA Pangaea (Hadrian II) from his Christmas card list*

MA Pangaea and LA R'lyeh siting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I...



I have zero contact with R'lyeh. But at the moment, i seem to be the only one who thinks that Ermor will become the bigger problem (everyone who thinks different might take a look at the provinces graph for the last turn). Also, ermor leaver a big spot of scorched earth on the map, what rlyeh does not.

[DrPraetorious]

LA R'lyeh doesn't scorch earth quite as fast as LA Ermor, but it does scorch earth.

Also, Ermor gets easier and easier to deal with as we move towards the late game. The same is not true of R'lyeh, who is still going to be hard to counterattack in the friggin' water.

[Xietor]

I actually wish I had a powerful ally like LA Rlyeh. There is not anything more that the LA Atlantis Alliance can do to me anyway.

So sure, if LA Rlyeh wants to be my ally, I openly invite you to aid me in any way possible. Not that I have much to offer in return, but hey, I am feisty!

What I would want from a powerful ally though, rather than mind hunts, would be some astral travel to key provinces that have low pd. Those i would be more than happy to point out to LA rlyeh, or any other race wanting some free provinces.

Also, I invite all races to send me death gems. Every death gem i get will translate to dead LA Atlantis troops.

EDIT: OOOPS! I no longer share any borders with LA Atlantis. Lest I be accused of "dishonestly" let me issue a clarification. All death gems received will be translate into dead LA Atlantis' Alliance troops. Though I would LOVE to see LA Atlantis troops in my swamps again-even though their stay will be as exceedingly short as LA Man's has been.

[Hadrian_II]

I think it would be better for LA Atlantian troops to die while fighting rlyeh, than to be wasted in the deep north.

[Xietor]

I am voting against any turn limit victories. To win, you will be required to kill every last lizard! AND EACH OTHER.

Notice that Velusion has not promised to refrain from casting utterdark or BOT. In fact my suggestion that BOT be voted on was ignored. If utterdark or BOT were to be cast, who could dispel it after LA Rlyeh is defeated?

My only solace is that there can be 1 true winner to this game. 1 nation. Not an alliance consisting of the most powerful nations that was likely put together before the game even began.

Yes, they may stop the game after the LA Atlantis/LA Ermor
alliance has defeated the hodge podge of other nations fighting singly. But if they do it will be a hollow victory
and certainly not one requiring more than average skill to achieve.

So my vote is for the original victory conditions stated at the outset to remain in place.

[solo]

At the rate they hatch, it may take awhile for this to happen. I vote the same way if it comes down to a vote.

[CelestialGoblyn]

Hello folks. Just wanted to say that I have no problem with a delay and waiting for a player, but I don't particularly like the idea of a 'timed' victory condition.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
Notice that Velusion has not promised to refrain from casting utterdark or BOT. In fact my suggestion that BOT be voted on was ignored. If utterdark or BOT were to be cast, who could dispel it after LA Rlyeh is defeated?



Ummm... everyone else?

But ok... I promise not to ever cast Utterdark or Burden of Time unless I'm in danger of being eliminated. All better now?

Now try and get the blood nations to promise not to cast Arcane Corruption! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Utterdark, BoT and Arcane Corruption can be dispelled i think it would become much uglier if someone begins to wish for armageddon (it has almost game ruining qualities).

[LoloMo]

Does a wished for Armaggeddon affect both land and water provinces equally? If so I don't see how it can be useful since it affects everyone, lasts one turn only, and is really costly at 100 astral gems. And how many percent of the provinces of the world does it affect? 50%? 60%?

[Szumo]

Zolharm will be subbing for me (EA Pangea) for next week (till Sunday August the 5th). In that time any potential diplomatic inquiries should be directed to him.

[Hadrian_II]

Armaggeddon kills just 20% of armies and population (but not in every province) so its much uglyer than most other spells, as all other spells can be dispelled, armaggeddon does his damage and thats it. (and it has the quality to be casted on defeat to annoy everyone else)

[Xietor]

Umm no Velusion. You should not be finding a sub for LA Rlyeh. You are at war with them. That is what is called a conflict of interest. When a conflict of interest arises, most judges recuse themselves from the case.

Since I am already LA Rlyeh's supposed ally, I will do their turn for them until I can find a sub. You all should not have any objection to that since we are already "sharing information" and they are "casting mind hunts for me."

I suggest a 24 hour delay to hosting until this is resolved. LA Rlyeh is a super power in the game and it is going to be tainted if they stale turn. LA Ermor has already taken advantage of LA Rlyeh's stale turn to rape MA Vanheim-if the graphs are accurate.

If the game is delayed 24 hours, I can find a quality replacement for LA Rlyeh. One that will impartially serve LA Rlyeh's interests, not LA Ermor and LA Atlantis' interests.

[jutetrea]

There will be NO (Zero, Zip, Zilch) delays for absences until we are down to 15 or less players. I highly recommend you ask around and find a temporary substitute if you plan on being gone for an extended time.

Due to the number of players I will be rather ruthless in enforcing the stale rule. No one will stale more than twice in a row before they are replaced or put on AI unless they let me know beforehand. If you let me know you will be gone you will not be replaced but the game will not be held up for you.




Why isn't this still in effect? Finding a sub is good, but a stale or two won't kill him.

[solo]

I believe Velusion is just adhering to and enforcing the game rules set forth in the first post regarding zero tolerance for delays.

The game's rules for stale turns should apply equally to all players, regardless of their strength or influence. Making any exception, especially one for a dominant player, is unfair to others who have staled and is bound to benefit some players and confound others, depending on their positions. Sticking to the game rules is the only impartial course of action.

[Xietor]

Actually, if you read the entire post, the reason for the no delay rule was there were 62 players. The game, while still huge, has fewer players.

And the fact is if MA Ctis staled a few turns, it would not affect the outcome of the game at all. But LA Ermor and LA Rlyeh occupy unique positions. And I think we all know that.

With so many nations already eliminated or on ai, will a 24 hour delay hurt so a sub can be found for one of the 2 superpowers? And believe it or not, my position would be the same if Velusion needed to delay host 24 hours for his own benefit.

I have suggested a sub already to velusion. One who I believe is above reproach and has a great reputation on the board. But even if he accepts(have not heard from him yet as to his interest), he would need at least 24 hours to acclimate himself to the game.

Evilhomer, if you are out there, give me your proxy for finding you a sub! And hurry. The clock is ticking.

[solo]

The rules state that the threshold is 15 remaining players before timeouts will be taken to find subs.

Personally, it does not matter to me whether there is a delay to find a sub, and in retrospect, it probably would have been better to set this threshold a bit higher or to have defined it differently.

The intention of my post was to point out that Velusion could not be accused of serving his own interests by just enforcing the rules we began the game with. In all his games in which I have particpated, I have found his conduct as host to be admirable and beyond reproach.

Finally, a look at the status page now shows a completed move for LA R'Iyeh, so R'Iyeh will not stale this turn. Perhaps in spite of his illness, Folket felt well enough to prevent R'Iyeh from staling by completing a move.

[Xietor]

Agreed Solo.

Sometimes my words coma across like a war hammer instead of a dove. I in fact did not mean to imply Velusion was doing anything underhanded. As I told him privately, he has done a wonderful service to Dominions III in hosting this game. And I feel it will have far reaching, or should have far reaching, implications.

But I do think a 24 hour pause at this point in the game, where half of the 62 players are dead or on AI, and even more are staling or have no hope, would be in the game's best interests. And I wish to reiterate, if I was going to stale, I would not even bother to ask for a 24 hour delay because it would be a minor event in the big picture.

[Xietor]

I have been appointed to find a sub for LA Rlyeh. To preserve the integrity of the game, I am not going to look at the turn as long as I am given 24 hours to find a capable sub.

If I was not honest, I would just do LA Rlyeh's turns and keep my mouth shut. But I am honest, and I will look to find an impartial player who most people know and respect.

My 1st choice is Llamabeast. I have not heard from him though. If the game is not delayed by 24 hours, and I can not find a good sub, I will be forced to look at his turn and play it.

I will promise in the event that occurs, to state that it has occurred. Under no circumstance will I transfer any items, gold, or gems to any other nation including mine. Or cast any spells on any of the nations in my part of the world that would aid MA Ctis in my own personal war.

In the meantime, I will try and get llamabeast to play the turn. If he will not play it I will, I promise to find a sub before the next turn takes place. If I do play the turn, I will allow gandalf to look at the LA Rlyeh turn file to ascertain that I did nothing improper.

And for the record-I was never LA Rlyeh's ally. We just have a common enemy.

[Velusion]

Xietor,

I really appreciate your help looking for a sub. I know you are just trying to help but...

As per the Velusion's Games Thread:
...playing two nations in the same game is strictly forbidden.

You'll also find that trying to play two nations with the same Cd-Key will make one or both nations stale when the turn hosts.

I assume you are the one that completed LA R'lyeh's turn so I'm going to delete that submitted turn from the server to comply with the rules and to insure that your primary nation doesn't stale!

I fully support you in finding a sub though! Once you have someone please have him post in this thread.

[Xietor]

No, I did not even look at the turn.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
No, I did not even look at the turn.



Ah well I will leave it then and assume folket did it.

[llamabeast]

I haven't really got the time to take over for LA R'lyeh for long - how long is he away for? I can take a turn though - I'll do it in a couple of hours when I get home.

[GrayZ]

Velusion said:

Xietor said:
No, I did not even look at the turn.



Ah well I will leave it then and assume folket did it.



Folket logged in to send me a Banner of the Northern Star which I had bought previously. This purchase is obviously more important now that I'm your next target.

[Xietor]

well, i will make sure Llamabeast sends you your banner. Anyone else having a legitimate trade with LA Rlyeh should inform Llamabeast.

Due to shortness of time until hosting, I am going to let llamabeast do the turn. I am also going to plead with Llamabeast to do at least 3 turns to ensure that i can find a very good permanent sub for LA Rlyeh.

[llamabeast]

Aargh. Two problems. Firstly the attachment on the first post no longer works so I can't get the map. Secondly I don't have LA R'lyeh's password. Stumped.

[Xietor]

the map will download(i think). and I am sending you a full report now(with the pw).

[jutetrea]

I still think this is pretty retarded, how is a player who is currently in the game, getting access to another nation currently in the game? Am I the only one who thinks this doesn't make sense?

If for some reason Ry'leh gets special treatment and a delay is needed to find a sub, fine. Why is it not Folket's, Evilhomer or the hosts job to get a sub? If they cannot find one the game continues, a stale or two isn't the end of the world.

I'm less concerned about a 24 hour delay as about precedence - both in delay and in one nation having access to another's info.

[Xietor]

I never looked at rlyeh's turn. In fact, had I not posted you would never have known i was hunting for a sub. So I was trying to be as above board as possible.

Evilhomer is not available and folket is ill. That is why a 3rd party had to find a sub, and it makes more sense for someone who at least has a common cause to find a sub, then someone who is at war with him.

Llamabeast is well known, and honest. It is not like i picked some unknown player who could be my friend or relative. That is one of the main reasons I picked llamabeast.

[llamabeast]

Right, I got over the aforementioned problems, and took the turn.

And relax guys, I'm coming from a completely unbiased viewpoint, Xietor did little more than ask me to sub, and he only did that because Folket asked him to sort it out for him. Also I know from previous dealings that Xietor goes completely out of his way to be honest about stuff, so if he says he didn't look at the turn you can be sure he didn't. And to be honest, he'd have to look for a very long time to have any idea what's going on. It's crazy! (literally)

So guys, I've landed a little in the deep end. I just took an hour looking at the map trying to get some idea what's going on and looking up all the different banners (so confusing! and some of them e.g. different Oceania ages are almost identical), looking at all my mages and trying to guess what they were doing and so on. I've done a kind of holding-action turn because I can't work out who I'm meant to be fighting or anything!

So, I'd ask that everyone in any way involved with me (which seems to be a lot of nations?) send me either a PM or an in-game message explaining the situation. Even if it's just "not done much diplomacy but consider you a friend". And the enemies too - I would greatly appreciate your honesty in letting me know we are at war.

I'm not sure how long I will sub for. I was trying to cut down on the games I am playing, but this does look very exciting (what a cool game!), so I think I will persist for a bit. Absolute max 3 weeks though, because then I am off to Edinburgh to do a show in the Fringe Festival. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Incidentally does Folket just have flu or something, or does he look to be out of action for a while? Hope he is okay.

[jutetrea]

It wasn't a cut at Xietor. If someone does access another nation, whether to send someone promised items or whatever, it just sets a bad precedence for all games in my mind. The delay would have just been a bad precedence for this game IMO.

Glad it worked out.

[Salamander8]

Hmmm, it's been almost 24 hours since the current turn hosted and this thread has been very quiet...

too quiet...

Things are shaking up in the west too. I'm rather surprised no one has posted about it till now.

[Lingchih]

There's nothing to see here citizen. Move along.

[Velusion]

For those worried about my spike in provinces I'm not planning on keeping them all. Indeed after this next turn or two you'll see my province track actually start to go down (either though countner attacks, me giving the provinces back to their rightful owner, or me selling them.)

[jutetrea]

I'll buy that for a dollar!

[Gandalf Parker]

Micah said:
Gandalf, about the tower map wraparound, couldn't you just manually edit the connections between the top and bottom provinces so they're connected? I haven't done any mapping but I had the impression that province connections were editable, and there would only be a few provinces that needed to be tweaked.



Yes, that would be very easy to do. Good catch on your part.
And when I run batches of tower maps I see ones which have a small ocean covering the bottom and the top which would make it even easier. Maybe 5 or 6 connections to make.

Unfortunately the game pukes if you do anything in those provinces where it has to try and paint an arrow all the way across the map. OUCH. In fact it seems to hate drawing arrows that go off of the screen to far at all.

Other map efforts have had the problem also. Such as creating "dungeons" on the side of the map which can be entered thru "caves" elsewhere. Or map-created portals which go long distances. I havent figured out the maximum length of an arrow but Im guessing that its different for everyones machine. It might also be dependent on the pixels of the map. Really large higher resolution maps might make it work harder.

Gandalf Parker

[Shuma]

The arena was not as exciting as I would have liked. But was anyone else freaked out by that crazy demon Lanka brought out that basically annihilated or banished its opponents?

[Folket]

I'm starting to feel batter I should be able to play R'leyh next turn again.

[llamabeast]

Okay, well no rush Folket, I am happy to sub until you're feeling good. Let me know when you're better and I'll tell you what I've been up to.

Everyone else - I will pass on any diplomatic developments carefully to Folket and I'm sure he will persist with any agreements, so please go ahead and reply if I've sent you a message.

[Salamander8]

I watched that. I always thought Mandahas rocked, and it's performance there was most impressive.

[Tichy]

Yes, but why did LA Arco's prophet keep coming back over and over until the Mandaha ran out of slaves and just had to kill him the old fashioned way? I thought it was really hard to escape the infernal prison...

[Salamander8]

I was wondering about that as well but I put it down to a bug when I saw LA Arco and EA Lanka fight those many times.

[llamabeast]

Maybe the infernal prison is only temporary if in the arena. Sort of seems reasonable, perhaps.

[Kristoffer O]

Infernal prison is always temporary, but time might be whacky in the arena.

Hmm. Inferno is not death, so perhaps the commander ending up in inferno decides that he should go to the arena instead of sitting in an oven and being poked by devils. Then he is sent back by the demon lord (Mandaha), but he still dislikes the oven and the poking, so he comes back for some old fashioned fighting, but is once more sent down. Finally the Mandaha decides that the bugger is more annoying alive in inferno, than dead in the arena http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Edit: some items makes you return from inferno quicker, but that is probably not the reason here. I'd say it is a bug more or less along the lines of my littel story.

[Evilhomer]

Xietor I sent you the pass so that you can pass it on to a suitable substitute. I will pass on what info I have on the game to that person. Note that im planing on resuming the game around 16/8.

[Xietor]

Bones, Divine Ruler of MA Ctis:

"My only regret is that I have but one life to give for my Nation. Oh wait, I am immortal!"

[jutetrea]

Wow, 99 forum pages

Anyway, just looking over the player list and found it interesting. (bugger, after previewing it takes out all the nicely spaced out bits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif. Aha, "code" works though!)

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Age DefeatedAI Out Total %
EA 10 4 14 22 64%
MA 7 2 9 22 41%
LA 5 1 6 18 33%

Type DefeatedAI Out Total %
Water 1 0 1 7 14%
Land 20 6 26 51 51%
Amph 1 1 2 4 50%


Cultures fully subsumed:

Nation defeated/Total
Arcoscephale 3/3
Caelum 3/3
Marveni 1/1
Sauromatia 1/1
Sidhe 2/2
Helheim 1/1
Marignon 2/2

Cultures mostly subsumed:

Nation defeated/total
Abysia 2/3
Agartha 2/3
Monkey folk 2/4 (Either Lanka or Patala don't fit, shrug)
Giants 2/3
Ulm 2/3

Cultures flourishing (zero defeated)
C'Tis 0/3
Oceania 0/2
Pangaea 0/3
Ry'leh 0/3
Pythium 0/1
Man 0/2</pre><hr />

[Morkilus]

All three R'lyehs are going strong? Yikes. Oh, where does Ermor fit?

Also, everyone was so quick to call the EA nations over the other eras. Yikes, what an upset.

[Velusion]

Morkilus said:
All three R'lyehs are going strong? Yikes. Oh, where does Ermor fit?

Also, everyone was so quick to call the EA nations over the other eras. Yikes, what an upset.



Scores file:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/perpetuality_scores.html

[Evilhomer]

Seems LA ermor has almost as many provinces as the 3 R'lyeh combined....better do something about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[llamabeast]

I'm trying! There's longdead everywhere!

[Gandalf Parker]

It might also be part of the "age of the game". IMHO
The late era's tend to be more army, and early era more magic. So in a game like this the late ages would be more able to take out the early age nations. But the ones that DO manage to survive into the late game could come back with a major magic punch.

[atul]

Well, looking at the actual nation list tells a lot what kind of nations survive from early era: Mictlan, Pangaea, Vanheim, Lanka, and three underwater nations. So blood/bless nations and guys underwater. I think it has been remarked several times that this map does favor a bit UW nations, though.

Also, although many late era nations survive, they are awfully small. The median province size for nations with more than zero provinces are: EA 27, MA 26 and LA 21 provinces. Which just means late era fields a lot of survivors and then several big guys: Ermor, Atlantis, R'lyeh and TC.

Middle age, harder to say. To me it'd seem it's the one with most balanced going, with no huge 70-province nations and many nations at 30-40 province range.

But that's it for today's portion of useless statistics.

[Tyrant]

The start bonuses might be part of the equation as well. IIRC most of the late era nations were not popular and got bumps.

[llamabeast]

Okay, Folket will play LA R'lyeh again from next turn, so I am stepping down after my brief stint in the job. What a game!

Incidentally, my bet is now on LA Atlantis (and friends) to win the game. The rest of you better get organised!

[sum1lost]

Its also worth noting that EA Mictlan, Pangea, Vanheim, and Lanka all have troops which are comptent when compared to any age (Jaguar warriors, etc.)

[DrPraetorious]

Evidently I staled last turn. Some kind of confusion with switching back from my laptop http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Anyway, any messages I was supposed to get last turn, I didn't get - so resend in the forum, plz.

[Hadrian_II]

Somehow the mega mod dl on the start page dont work, can someone attach the mod here? I would be very thankful, as else i would have to stale.

thx

[atul]

The mega-age and banners mods should be in the zip attached. I hope.

[Shuma]

In other news, this thread is now 100 pages.

Grats to Perpetuality! Next goal is 100,000 views!

[Hadrian_II]

ok, i got the patch, thx

[DrPraetorious]

Ugh, that was an unpleasant siege battle.

This is why I much prefer it when my enemies obligingly take the field. I also forgot to change the scripted instructions on my mages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

Well, three cheers for EA C'tis mounting a rousing defense of his capital! Our hats are off.

[Amhazair]

I don't suppose anyone got an unexpected present from EA Oceania in the form of 30 fire gems? I (should have) sent them to MA Agartha, but apparently they never arrived.

The idea of coughing up an extra 30 gems is moderately http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Zoshan]

I need a few ideas on how to spend 30ish fire gems?

[Kristoffer O]

Alchemize them into nature gems and summon a couple of sea dogs so that you can enter the sea.

[lch]

I suppose that you have alchemized them already. So you should send Amhazair 10% of the gold that you made back in return. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Amhazair]

So many friendly people around here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm moved to tears.

[Velusion]

I asked for a sub on the IRC channel for EA Vanhiem... and got Quantum Mechanic. He isn't sure if he can stay for the whole game but it's better then the nation just lapsing to AI.

[Lingchih]

Wow. This game must be super sexy. Ask for a sub, and you get a superstar.

[Xietor]

Welcome back my friend() to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend
Come inside! Come inside!

There behind a glass is a real blade of grass
be careful as you pass.
Move along! Move along!

Come inside, the show's about to start,
guaranteed to blow your head apart!

[quantum_mechani]

A notice in any interested blood nations- there is an open ice devil slot this turn.