Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Finished!)

[Velusion]

Ack, I forgot to change the timer. I'll turn it back to 72 after this host.

[Evilhomer]

Just in case if someone missed it:

DrPretorious is a temporary substitute for LA R'lyeh for 1-2 weeks ahead.

[Hadrian_II]

MA Pangaeas troops are preparing for war
a war of liberation
a war of unification
soon the unfit leadership of EA Pangaea will crumble
Centaurs, Satyrs, Harpys, Dryads, Minotaurs and Pans rejoice
Pangaea will soon be one again.

[Xietor]

The Battle of Two Towers has begun. LA Ermor has launched an assault upon MA Ctis. Though our losses were heavy, the Lizards will persist in its war to protect the free nations
from Evil.

[Lingchih]

Hadrian_II said:
MA Pangaeas troops are preparing for war
a war of liberation
a war of unification
soon the unfit leadership of EA Pangaea will crumble
Centaurs, Satyrs, Harpys, Dryads, Minotaurs and Pans rejoice
Pangaea will soon be one again.



EA Pangaea? You hate them too brother? (I knew you hated us). But know that LA Pangaea still bears you no ill will.

[Hadrian_II]

Lingchih said:

Hadrian_II said:
MA Pangaeas troops are preparing for war
a war of liberation
a war of unification
soon the unfit leadership of EA Pangaea will crumble
Centaurs, Satyrs, Harpys, Dryads, Minotaurs and Pans rejoice
Pangaea will soon be one again.



EA Pangaea? You hate them too brother? (I knew you hated us). But know that LA Pangaea still bears you no ill will.



We dont hate our older brothers, we just cant stand anymore to be seperated from them.

[Velusion]

Hadrian_II said:

Lingchih said:

Hadrian_II said:
MA Pangaeas troops are preparing for war
a war of liberation
a war of unification
soon the unfit leadership of EA Pangaea will crumble
Centaurs, Satyrs, Harpys, Dryads, Minotaurs and Pans rejoice
Pangaea will soon be one again.



EA Pangaea? You hate them too brother? (I knew you hated us). But know that LA Pangaea still bears you no ill will.



We dont hate our older brothers, we just cant stand anymore to be seperated from them.



Naked Rabid Chick Fight!

[Salamander8]

Velusion said:

Hadrian_II said:

Lingchih said:

Hadrian_II said:
MA Pangaeas troops are preparing for war
a war of liberation
a war of unification
soon the unfit leadership of EA Pangaea will crumble
Centaurs, Satyrs, Harpys, Dryads, Minotaurs and Pans rejoice
Pangaea will soon be one again.



EA Pangaea? You hate them too brother? (I knew you hated us). But know that LA Pangaea still bears you no ill will.



We dont hate our older brothers, we just cant stand anymore to be seperated from them.



Naked Rabid Chick Fight!



Time to grab some popcorn and watch! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Lingchih]

Alas, we of LA Pangaea have no naked chicks that fight for us, although we have definitely tried to recruit some. We have naked dead vine creatures, if that turns you on.

[Hadrian_II]

MA Pangaea can offer chicks and vine creatures, so we have something for everyone.

[LoloMo]

Bondage and Fern Fetishes, kinky!

[Xietor]

When the Ctis scout peered over the hill and saw the enemy encampment, he knew that the doom of the Lizards was at hand. Countless as black flies on a rotting carcass were the undead armies of MA and LA Ermor. He must report what he had seen.....

"But my Lord", the scout exclaimed later, "too few of our friends have joined the war. We cannot hope to defeat the armies of both LA and MA Ermor."

"No we cannot," exclaimed Bones, "but we shall meet them on the field of battle nonetheless!"

[Stelteck]

undead making campment ?

I was thinking that undead only stay where their master told them to stay and moan....^^

Stelteck, prince of LA abysia.

[DrPraetorious]

Shelteck, you're thinking of Maenads.

DOOM!

-- Knife Bright Insight,
State Department Special Advisor on Unspeakable Gibbering and Meeping,
LA R'lyeh

[LoloMo]

"My lord, we have captured a C'tis scout. What shall we do with him?", asks Benhur. Having been dead only 5 days, his tongue and jaw muscles were still working smoothly, and in fact felt more limber than they were yesterday.

General Amphoteros looks up from his study of the terrain maps, a malevolent red glint inside his empty eye sockets the only clue that vision is used. "Another one? What does he have to say for himself?"

"My lord, he appears to be mumbling something about large swarms of black flies", replies Benhur, obliviously slapping dead a couple of fat black flies against his cheek.

General Amphoteros sighs, "Is he the same one we caught eight months ago who came declaring war on us and screaming about "Friends in High Places" on their side?"

Benhur squints at the dimunitive slimy lizardkin. If his olfactory senses have been what it once was, he would probably have been nauseated by the miasma that exudes from the C'tisian too. Being undead does have its perks.
"My lord, they all look the same to me".

"Nevermind, send him back. Their cowardly pretender is probably still holed up in his den all warm and cozy waiting for others to fight his war for him. For all that old coot's bluster, we haven't seen a real fight from him. It's his "Allies" MA Pythium and MA Tien Chi that have been doing the fighting and the dying. I'm going to take a nap. Wake me up if by some miracle that huge army next door starts marching. Maybe in another year", snickers General Amphoteros, making sure that the little C'tis scout is absorbing everything that was said.

[Xietor]

Bones chuckled at Benhur's report. "MA Ermor's so-called pretender, an immobile rock, hides inside a castle. His armies are off fighting minor skimishes while our army sits on an open field of battle waiting on his armies to attack."

"Sire," Benhur replied, "that fool likely has no idea that you were in the Hall of Fame during the Demon wars, and that the tally of your slain numbers in the hundreds, including LA Atlanteans, Lanka demons, LA Man's knights, and MA Oceania's Trident Knights. How must longer must i continue my work as a double agent? I tire of that fool's dribble?"

"Not much longer Benhur. Far have our armies marched to wage war, and do we sit hiding behind castle walls? No. We sit here blocking a key pass while Ermor builds 20 more forts to hide even more of his armies in. I thought rocks and undead had no fear of battle. But the stench of their armies' fear is pervades these lands."

[Lingchih]

Tien Chi. We don't mind you camping on the lawn around our castle. Really, it's the least we can do for you. But you must tell your minions to quit vandalizing the property! The graffiti was bad enough, but now they've started stealing parapet stones and door knockers. If you don't make them stop we are going to charge you for damages.

[Tichy]

Draw up an invoice and I'll forward it to the Celestial Accountants.

[Reay]

Hmm strange.

This turn 8 of my mages' summons did not appear, but 4 other mages' summons did appear. They were in order in the messages list as well. The top 8 mages didn't get any summons, bottom 4 mages got all their summons. Most of my province recruits did appear as far as I can tell.

I have had not this issue before. It might be related to the amount of units I recruited this turn from provinces (many).

Not very happy about losing the troops I summoned since they were quite powerful ones, bugger. Hopefully this does not continue. Did anybody else have a problem with summons this turn?

[Xietor]

I had mage summons that failed to appear also. Unfortunately one was a very expensive summon.

I also had a mage with ritual of returning who did not return when he was hit. The battle shows he did not die, but he is also not back in my capital.

On another note, my commanders in the rear were killed by 2 la ermor flying tar gates. Just to be clear, it was decided that you cannot copy attack commander script from the dark knight to other commanders correct?

I am not saying, btw, that it was in fact done. Just want a clarification. It is possible they flew over all the troops
with attack rearmost command, though that tends to mostly attack rearmost troops.

[Lingchih]

Holy balls, batman. Did you see that coming?

LA R'lyeh has thrown a fastball at us. What did we ever do to you R'lyeh? I hope you wasted a lot of gems trying to knock down those domes. And you did knock down a few, but never fear, we can put them back up.

Fear the day when you attacked mighty LA Pan. We shall destroy you. Or at least, kill a few of your militia.

[LoloMo]

I'm missing one summon that I know of, one of my ghost riders artillery spell arrived without the leader and so died, one ghost rider spell arrived with only 4 units and no leader, one earth attack was cast but couldn't view the battle, so I guess he didn't make it either.

Also, an enemy earth attack against a unit of mine couldn't be viewed, so I'm guessing it didn't arrive either.

Also, last turn, I had multiple astral window spells cast that I got a messages for, but didn't have any effect.

[archaeolept]

you all are hitting the unit limit of the game, due to the extreme map size and vast late-game armies. you need to be killing each other's units more :p

[atul]

Yeah, it would seem we hit the unit limit. I wanted to see what happens with improved crossbreeding and cast it, yet not a single crossbreeding unit appeared. Probably didn't get other stuff either, but can't be 100% sure.

Anyway, time to start killing stuff.

[Hadrian_II]

Im missing 2 tartarians :/

And i had another strange effect this turn, i was not able to watch the battles for some earth attacks (both on me and from me) so there might be some strange other stuff going on too.

But my war with EA Pan should yield some death maenads so there should be some space for new summons. And if LA Rlyeh and LA Ermor could start an all out war, the unit limit problems will be solved.

[Xietor]

Yep,

I cast Earth Attacks and could not watch the fight(: Not sure if Lolomo lost mages to them or they just did not appear.

Several ghost rider castings failed to appear.

That starspawn teleported into your province velusion with 15 s gems scripted to cast magic duel. but when he arrived he had no s gems, and cast horror mark instead. Consider yourself lucky.

Is there any way this issue can be fixed? Can dr p or someone go in and manually hack out about 20,000 units from la ermor and la ryleh? or maybe just remove all free summons and shut that off?

[atul]

I'd guess the only things that would help against this problem were either next patch increasing the unit count, or that people would seriously start beating each other up.

Hm, was wishing for Armageddon supposed to kill 10% of armies, too? *eg*

[Hadrian_II]

As said before, i will soon kill about 5000 or more units from EA Pangaea, and i might loose a few hunderd on my side too, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif but when Rlyeh and Ermor not engage each other, there will be much trouble.

I think if that glitches go on, it is almost impossible to play, as the chance that you loose a major battle cause your spells did not work is just too big.

Why is there an unit limit anyway or why is it smaller than 2 ^ 32?

[Xietor]

The game is not playable as is.

Last turn was a total fubar for me. i have a dead starspawn instead of velusion having 3 dead tar gates. I wasted 50 bloodslaves casting internal tempest with a b7 guy in a castle that is going to be stormed this turn. No units appeared. my Earth elemental attacks and ghost riders did not work.

If the game cannot be fixed somehow I vote that it is over.

Winners: Agartha, LA Ryleh, LA Ermor
Contenders: MA Ctis, MA Ermor, EA and MA Pangaea
Honorable mention: The survivors with over 25 provinces

[archaeolept]

you need to destroy whomever has vast chaff armies. A game like this is playable, in the sense that everyone is equally affected; and it is easy enough to rectify, if y'all don't just turtle-up carebearing ;p

just attack whomever has the most chaff. attack now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

I do not think everyone is equally affected. And I do not think it is playable. When you summon troops, they are supposed to appear.

Some races rely on summoned troops more than others. And races that have been at war need to summon troops to compete with races that have had long periods of peace and already have many tough troops.

I think hacking the chaff out of the game before the next turn is a more realistic solution then trying to kill off all of the free spawn-much of it underwater.

[Velusion]

I'll need everyone to chime in here.

I'm fine with calling it now, but will soldier on to the end if the majority wants to continue.

That's partially fatigue talking (for me) of course, but I can see how non-free spawning nations might feel hurt by this.

Frankly I'm really surprised it took us this long to hit the limit...

[archaeolept]

it's a good reason to ban LA ermor, and maybe a couple other nations like MA pan, from games such as these. Or, if you don't, at least try to take them down before it comes to this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[atul]

Velusion said:I'm fine with calling it now, but will soldier on to the end if the majority wants to continue.

Same here, I can go both ways.

It has been a great game, and I'd hate not to do it justice by just letting everything slip while the game hosts on 3-days intervals. But, dunno how much of that feeling is due the fatigue.

I don't think it's the freespawn nations that are the problem, but getting a realistic winning goal. I mean, current 650+ provinces is _huge_, no-one's even near it. I've got a fourth of that amount. %/ Can't say what would be a better goal, though.

[Stelteck]

I had also a strange thing this turn : An event that have to lead to an attack of my province by neutral, do not create this attack.

But of course it is not as important as yours.

My people are great and proud but they are not anymore in the course for victory, and i hope that a mighty god will give me a small place in heaven at its side. Perhaps i can play music, or sing, or serve ambroisia and nectar.. Things like that.

If you want to stop the game, no problem for me. But i'am not a major player. If game go on i will go on.

STelteck.

[DrPraetorious]

I don't think there's anything I can do to fix it from a modding standpoint - I could make a mod that killed all of LA R'lyeh and LA Ermor's units entirely (by making them amphibious or air-breathing, respectively), but I can't actually change the way freespawning works.

Obviously as a sub I'm not going to wish for Armageddon; but if anyone else wants to keep the game going, that would do it.

[Salamander8]

I didn't get hit as bad by this as others it appears, only 2 of the 3 abominations I called didn't appear.

If people want to call it, it's all good. My last few turns have not been any great shakes as it was thanks to my grandpa's illness and funeral, and now with the holidays here, I have a lot less time to focus.

I've had a great time, and was quite pleased that I was able to survive and, while not being in the upper echelon of nations left, I can't complain about my fortunes either. I do have 1 artifact (the ankh), when I saw it was available in my construct list. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Xietor]

Someone decided to lower the world population last turn by summoning my Djinn away from me! I wonder who that may have been? /winks lolomo.

[solo]

I also had a notice of an Indy attack that never materialized, as well as losing out on quite a few summons that did not materialize.

Since all players seem to be affected, perhaps a turn or two more are needed to really determine if this limit has made the game unplayable, but if the majority want to call it a game now, it's okay with me.

[Velusion]

When is EH coming back?

[Hadrian_II]

I would say that we wait for one more turn to see what happens. Maybe we can get a raise of the unitlimit inot patch 3.12 if we whine enough in the general forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

I think that freespawn nations might be slightly out of balance as from the nations that get lots of freespawns (EA & MA Pan, LA Ermor, LA Rlyeh) all are still around.

Also the 650 province goal for winning is way of the scale. My turns with a 75 province empire take 1+ hour, and im not the guy that micromanages everything do the deepest, so turns with a 600 province empire might take easily 10 turns, and the game would just be won by the guy who is willing to make that effort.

I would think this would be a bad end for the game, as just now the things begin to move. But if the strange bugs do not end i vote to end it now, as with this bugs we could also choose the winner by throwing dices.

[Szumo]

I (EA Pangea) am willing to end the game. It was a great expierence, but at this stage in game, it's getting more and more tiring due to micromanagement. Managing hundreds of mages when you have stockpiled thousands of gems, fitting out many thugs and moving freespawns is more tedious then fun IMO at this scale.

[Lingchih]

I'm also willing to end the game (LA Pangaea). But maybe, if LA R'lyeh and LA Ermor attacked each other in force this turn, it would solve the problems for a while. It appears LA R'lyeh is going to end it for me soon anyway.

I will continue to play though, if the consensus wants to.

[Xietor]

"When is EH coming back?"

Not for 2-3 weeks last i heard from him. His computer repair had issues.

[Velusion]

It would take many turns for me to maneuver my big armies to take losses.... and naturally I'd want to take as few as possible.

LA R'lyeh's freespawns can't even enter the sea...

So far I haven't heard anyone say they really want to keep playing... though I'd feel bad ending it without Evilhomer's input. However if it will be another 2-3 weeks before he comes back we can't really wait to decide.

[Lingchih]

So that's it. An extremely entertaining six month long game, and a draw at the end because of game limitations. Sounds fair to me. Medals to everyone who survived to this point.

I personally achieved all my goals in this game. Which were, to survive to the endgame and see what a really nasty MP endgame was like. Yes, I did it by becoming a pawn of one of the great powers, but hey, I haven't really heard of LA Pan being a seriously powerful nation. I did what I had to do to continue playing. This has been a wonderful experience.

[Xietor]

It is not a matter of "wanting" to end it. I just cannot play with my summons not working. That is a huge part of my endgame as Ctis. It is not really playing when it is pot luck as whether your spells will work. heh.

It was a great game regardless. 62 nations is quite a feat. And Velusion deserves credit for hosting it.

For my part though, the saga is over. Unless the issues are fixed, I am done. I feel quite good about the game. My main goal of destroying the LA Atlantis Alliance was accomplished, and I stayed true to my allies and defended them as best I could. No regrets.

Agartha was a surprise to me doing as well as they did. /bow Atul. Masterful work beating Dr. P and the rest of the East. MA Ermor was going to be quite a handful as well. My brief exchanges with Lolomo showed me he is a masterful player and had his armies very ready for conquering.

Had I not burned my reserves to aid Pythium and Tien Chi, he would have conquered them both in a very short period of time.

K was a fierce foe in Lanka. Though I beat Lanka the cost was so large I really had nothing left to fight the Ermors with.

[Reay]

I am already taking plenty of time to do my turns and I am not even at war yet and don't have freespawns. Unfortunately, I do not think I will have enough time to plan attacks or defend my lands in future turns. Especially seeing that I am losing summons which are very important to my plans.

I think I would have gone AI a long time ago if I was LA Ermor or LA R'lyeh. Thanks to those guys for managing to do their turns in time and helping making this epic game great fun.

I was able to survive through diplomacy mainly. However, I did manage to conquer LA Tien Chi (with LA Ermor's help) after he foolishly attacked me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. I did warn him that he was making a mistake. His grovelling afterwards as my 30 sorcerers cast every spell at his 1000's of barbarian horseman was highly entertaining http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.

Conquering EA Helheim at the start of the game was also a good strategic move. Flaming arrows is great against massed Helherdlings.

EA R'lyeh was a constant thorn in my side, thanks to Yucky for keeping me on my toes. That Polypal Queen you had was difficult to defeat. It took me around 80 turns to finally conquer your capital in the water.

If this game is ending now, I have to thank Velusion for hosting it. Hopefully there is a new mega game soon.

[LoloMo]

I can play on or end, both is acceptable to me. I have to thank Xietor for showing me all the nasty tricks possible, I've added all those little techniques Xietor used on me to my library of counters hehe. I specially liked that naked, solo raiding illusionist =) And yes, I have a shiny new lamp sitting in my treasure room =)

I can suggest another course of action, which is to shelve the game until the new patch comes out, and if there is still enough interest perhaps continue with the new patch that would have hopefully solved the unit limit.

[Hadrian_II]

I would rather play on, but with this bugs it is impossible.

The history of MA Pan would end hereby, before it really becomes glorious but the game was fun anyway.

If i think that i almost got killed in the very beginning while fighting Sauromantia. (i was so weak at that point, that i had to allow xietor to take the capital)

Afterwards i decided to invade tir na n'og, but on the turn i wanted to send the NAP cancellation there was no more Tir na n'og (a big alliance out of LA Atlantis, MA Oceania and LA Man and Lanka had attacked him, and anhillated him in one turn).

Now comes the time where the glorious nation of MA Pan safed the existence of MA Ctis, as the same alliance that crushed Tir na n'og now moved on to crush the lizards, Pangaea extended his realm around ctis to shield him from Atlantis and Oceania and i engaged LA Man, what allowed Ctis to fight Lanka.

After Man had ceased to exist i decided to annex Ulm, as Xietor was somehow just ignoring them. My biggest losses where when my centaur catapracts fainted at a castle gate, and so my army autorouted after 50 turns, and my carrion beasts and vine ogres dissolved. But the war against ulm was just a walking over him.

Then i got word that LA Ermor is moving into MA Oceania, and so i started a rescue operation, and took some of his provinces.

Now when MA Pan would face some real war after all the game is ending http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Xietor]

My hat is off to Hadrian II as he was a good friend this game. But some of that is what we call "revisionist" history.

First, you did not "save" me from the LA Atlantis Alliance. I kicked their arse severely before you lifted a finger. In fact the same large armies that destroyed Tier Nog you permitted to move through your lands to attack me.

I killed all 400 of LA Atlantis invaders, all of MA Oceania's invaders, and beat LA Man's armies to a pulp all before you entered the fray against LA Man. LA Man was already defeated, but i did appreciate the help mopping him up as my hands were very full with Lanka. But I had large armies also in my Eastern lands fighting LA Man.

My pretender and 70 percent of my forces were in the west fighting Lanka and MA Oceania(who snuck into the water provinces in the nw corner and built a castle).

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
In fact the same large armies that destroyed Tier Nog you permitted to move through your lands to attack me.



Somehow i must have missed that before http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Zoshan]

MA Pythium here.

Im ok with ending the game now. I had a blast playing and I want to thank Tichy=MA T'ien Ch'i who formed an alliance with me ealy on. Without him I would have never made it to the end.

I wish I had not been at war the whole game, all I ever wanted to do was build up my lil area and sit back and watch the rest of you guys fight.

In the end I can say I was at one time or another, the owner of EA Caelum, EA Arcoscephale, EA Mictlan, and EA Abysia(i think it was EA, might have been MA)capitals. Not too bad for a god that got Horrer Marked ealy in the game, and never resummoned.

My strategy with my god this game was to make him a sleeper take all good picks to max my income and the god was realy pointless used only to spread dominion and research. I didnt want to depend on him to do much cuz gods tend to die so easy. My god had like 2 air and I had given him one more air before he died. I was happy I didnt wast points on him as EA Mictlan caught out spreading dominoin and splat he was dead.

Well thanks for the game everyone good luck to you all.

[Velusion]

I guess the writing is on the wall. It's been very much fun. I'll go ahead and archive the game - if the new patch fixes things I'll see if there is any interest in starting it back up.

I had a running feud with EvilHomer (LA R'lyeh) pretty much the entire game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif . We only put aside our differences for EA Oceania. I still think he was/is in the best position to win since I couldn't sway Agatha over to help me. Still it really could have gone either way...

It was alot of work bordering so many nations when it came to diplomacy. So many NAPs! I'm glad that my "Sinister Six" coalition basically survived (sans Baalz http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif ) until the end. Early on I had made a secret alliance/pact with 5 other nations and everyone seemed to really benefit from it.

LA Ermor is insane at this turn. In the last thirty or so turns I rarely even bothered to separate my undead cavalry - just lumped them all together to speed things up. I was summoning 7-8 Tartarians a turn and GoR about 2 a turn. With the forge I could outfit 2-3 a turn. I literally had a Tartarian army I could unleash. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I was really curious as to how the next 10-15 turns would have played out. I have a feeling some players might have been unpleasantly surprised. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ahh well. Good game everyone. Definitely the most memorable for me!

[Tichy]

MA TC heartily enjoyed bringing our slingshots to the nuclear war.

Tea for all!

[Xietor]

It was not wise to let LA Ermor keep Well of Misery up. I asked all the clammers to dispel but none seemed too concerned by it.

I was thinking of trying to overwrite it with 350 d gems. How many did you have in it Velusion?

[Lingchih]

Although the Forge was a pain in the *** to operate, I found it amusing that no one paid any attention to me, or tried to attack me, until I became bored and decided to attack Tien Chi along with MA Ermor. Even then, until the final turn, no one lauched any really concerted attacks on me. I was continually pumping out items for LA Ermor and the rest of the Sinister Six. I had so many units forging, that I fell completely behind on research. That would have been my undoing, if the game had continued.

Great fun though, in retrospect. It was so cool to see the Nukes falling, and all the Tartarians, Seraphs, and other end game badasses in action. I doubt I'll ever play another game like this.

And yes, I think I would have lasted another ten turns, contrary to rumors.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
It was not wise to let LA Ermor keep Well of Misery up. I asked all the clammers to dispel but none seemed too concerned by it.

I was thinking of trying to overwrite it with 350 d gems. How many did you have in it Velusion?



Like 90 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif (thats a reinforcement of 10)
Soulgate had a reinforcement of like 50.

The key is to cast them during the rare times that something was dispelled or removed (due to being killed).

I had about 600 fire gems I was saving to overcast purgatory so it couldn't be used against me (once I hit 999 and had a level 10 or 11 fire mage).

I was negotiating with my allies about putting Utterdark up (I always had 600 death gems in the bank). Every water province I got immediately got turned up to 200 taxes (and left there) so I had 15K gold sitting around that last turn.

All that said... I bet LA R'lyeh's gem income was giganto-normous. 2 wishes a turn for more gems from the clams I'm guessing? I bet his gem income was 3x-5x mine. He had to be sittign on 100K Gold in the bank as well.

[Velusion]

Lingchih said:
Although the Forge was a pain in the *** to operate, I found it amusing that no one paid any attention to me, or tried to attack me, until I became bored and decided to attack Tien Chi along with MA Ermor. Even then, until the final turn, no one launched any really concerted attacks on me. I was continually pumping out items for LA Ermor and the rest of the Sinister Six. I had so many units forging, that I fell completely behind on research.



You were my hero with that forging!

The moment LA R'lyeh made their alliance with MA C'tis known I flushed every NAP down the mental toilet as I was going to need every little bit of advantage to have things go my way. I was going to attack MA Tien Chi immediately and bury him in undead, along with attacking LA R'lyeh everywhere I could.

I was probably going to officially invite EA Pan into our alliance as well.

[atul]

Huh, an alliance between half the active nations, what's the fun in that?

Anyway, I wasn't too keen on going against R'lyeh with Ermor for two reasons. First, after R'lyeh would be gone, who is next? The latest recruit, quite probably. Second, R'lyeh had given me some support in time of need earlier (mind hunts here and there, nothing too big but a gesture nevertheless), unlike some other big nations. I'd rather have seen two big giant alliances hack into each other than be on the frontlines in conflict I don't have any part in. :p

And MA Agartha would like to thank Patala, EA C'tis, Jomon and Oceania for their generous contributions towards our war chest. I wasn't allied with any of those, but got hundreds of gems and loads of useful items with the farewell note "avenge me" from those nations when they were crushed. Most of you can rest peacefully now.

[LoloMo]

Since everyone is laying down their cards, hehe, I'll show mine too.

I was pulling in about 120 Astral Gems from Clams, and about the same number of Earth Gems from blood stones. Making 4 clams and 4 blood stones per turn. I was wishing for gems every turn, and had started in motion another unit to do 2 wishes per turn. My problem was recruiting enough units to put all the stuff I was forging. Most of them were reserve items that I wasn't expecting to use immediately. I had the Steel Oven Construction bonus, so that even though I had access to the forge as part of the Sinister Six Alliance, I found it more convenient to forge my own.

If pressed I would have been capable of 15 seeking arrows, 10 earth attacks, and 6 ghost riders per turn, while still doing all the forging and "turtling" activities. Plus I had prepared a batch of stealthy assasinating Claws of Kokytos casting Spectres that I was about to seed around to catch raiding SCs hehe. Also lots of Druid led raiding Shadow Vestals, a lot of them with flying carpets. I had only used a few squads against Pythium and they were surprisingly effective, enough to probably win me the war by themselves. I had quite a lot of specialized units in reserve that I planned to use to fight a gem efficient war against SCs. I had also planned to use huge communions with my cheap Astral and Death mages.

I had been holding back in the war against MA C'tis, going for gem efficiency rather than a quick kill, as I did not want LA R'lyeh to conclude that it was over for MA C'tis and reveal himself as an ally of MA C'tis. My theory was that the longer the game run, the bigger my advantage gets, especially since no one seems to think that I was clamming =) Without the Steel Oven, I probably would not have spent the huge resources needed to get clamming started.

The biggest danger for me the entire game was in the beginning in the war against Abysia. My vestals were not very effective against heat auras and the dragon pretender, plus they had control of the steel oven then. Then Vanheim joined Abysia in fighting me. I had to pretend to be a lot stronger than I was at that time to get those two to agree to non simultaneous ceasefires, that allowed me to eventually concentrate on Abysia.

After that I had to forge diplomatic ties to keep out of war while I leverage the Steel Oven advantage.

[Velusion]

atul said:
Huh, an alliance between half the active nations, what's the fun in that?



Heh, well when we formed the alliance there were ALOT more players. The alliance wasn't forever either - It was designed to fall apart once all the other major powers fell.

[Velusion]

LoloMo said:
I was pulling in about 120 Astral Gems from Clams, and about the same number of Earth Gems from blood stones.



Heh - see I knew you were holding back (I overheard you once in the chatroom) but I didn't know you had such a stockpile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.

I discovered a steel oven as well but using the forge was still advantageous for me.

[Velusion]

atul said:
Anyway, I wasn't too keen on going against R'lyeh with Ermor for two reasons. First, after R'lyeh would be gone, who is next? The latest recruit, quite probably.



Eh, I would have been happy with the small fry for quite awhile - I wouldn't have turned on you right away (besides it would have taken forever to beat down LA R'lyeh - if even possible). IMHO I'll still stick by my assertion that it was most certainly in your best interest to go after LA R'lyeh - assuming you believe his gem income was significantly higher than mine - simply because I would be a more manageable opponent later than he would be.

[atul]

Heh, "alliance falls apart once all the major powers fell". Dunno whether that would have included my fall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I don't know how far ahead you people were planning, but from what I saw/heard it seemed both Vel and Homer (as well as me) had grown quite tired of managing their empires. My guess was that if a huge R'lyeh/Ermor war was to start, the winners would've noticed they have piddling 40% of the victory condition provinces at maximum and agree end the game then. Just my feeling.

Gem-wise, I was quite a paper tiger. This being the first game that got this far, I hadn't forged any gems or had any blood mages. Oh well, got quite a few from Oceania just recently.

[Hadrian_II]

MA Pangaea might have been a bit slow on the sc front, but we were in the opinion that bigger armies with weapons of sharpness cand take out paralized tartarians, it wen never to test that, but well, if this would not work i have also some flambeau wielding thugs specially to kill tartarians.

Also pangaea has a earth gem income of 250 and we are forging 6 bloodstones turn (and we have started again to raise that limit, as we have increased or blood income). Btw, i casted forge of the ancients with a E14 caster and 999 gems, how heavily entrenched was the original cast?

Also i did some strange things on my pretender, like production 2 (to get cataphracts) what i would not do again. As in CWs with relieve dont get fatigued, while cataphracts tend to faint in battle (especially annoying in sieges when you have some fainted cataphracts blocking the entrance). But all in all my tactics went quite well.

btw. if velusion is thinking to invite EA Pan in his alliance does that mean that EA Pan is not part of it?

[LoloMo]

Velusion said:

LoloMo said:
I was pulling in about 120 Astral Gems from Clams, and about the same number of Earth Gems from blood stones.



Heh - see I knew you were holding back (I overheard you once in the chatroom) but I didn't know you had such a stockpile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.

I discovered a steel oven as well but using the forge was still advantageous for me.



I recounted, I was actually pulling in 175 astrals per turn, 147 from clams and the rest from sites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
If the game went on, I would have had to resort to putting clams and stones on scouts cause I wouldn't have enough gold to recruit enough mages.

[Xietor]

Your secret 6 alliance was not so secret. I knew 100 percent that the forge was being shared, and that LA Pangaea was a vassal after Velusion saved him from Vanheim. My secret alliance was with new players-not smart but fun.

MA Vanheim, MA Pythium, MA Tien Chi. And they were a far from me, and could not help me in my fights. But I saw them as the 1st line of defense against LA Ermor Alliance.

I was not able to convince LA Ryleh to attack LA Pangaea and take out the forge. MA Pangaea tried to overwrite it with 1000 e gems and failed. In fact, I was unable to convince him the forge was being shared(at least that was Dr. P's opinion). But i knew it was.

I had asked EA Oceania for his clams, since that was the only way i could compete. But he took them with him to Davy Jones Locker.

[DrPraetorious]

Up until that last turn, LA R'lyeh had been alternating between 4 and 5 wishes per turn. I dumped a lot of pearls into that teleport attack, obviously.

It was a pain to administer. I *should* have scaled up to 5 tarts per turn, which could have been supported easily.

Those tarts *should* have had boutique equipment. But the game was so large that just moving items around was a major chore.

I recall something like half a million gold banked, but I'd just spent a bunch of it raising province defenses. Upkeep was pretty negligible, in any case.

[Hadrian_II]

Velusion said:
I had about 600 fire gems I was saving to overcast purgatory so it couldn't be used against me (once I hit 999 and had a level 10 or 11 fire mage).



Would this not be a quite suicidal stunt as now your dominion would begin to purge your own undead, or are the undead of the casting nation immune to the effects?

[archaeolept]

i guess he would have found out ;p

[Lingchih]

The Forge was cast by a natural 10 Earth mage with 999 earth gems. I'm unsure why it was not overwritten... chance perhaps.

[Hadrian_II]

Lingchih said:
The Forge was cast by a natural 10 Earth mage with 999 earth gems. I'm unsure why it was not overwritten... chance perhaps.



natural 10 equals E10 or 10 plus boosters?

if it would equal E10 and i casted it with E14 you would have thrown a drm 20 higher than me and the chance for that is less than 1% and that would be really rotten luck.

But if there where some boosters also included, the rotten luck might not have been that rotten.

[Velusion]

Boosters have no effect on determining the strength of a global ritual.

I read somewhere that Purgatory does not affect friendly troops. I would have tested it before I cast the spell obviously...

Dr. P - Was that 4 to 5 wishes for GEMS per turn? Insane. I would highly suggest that if anyone ever forms another mega-game they mod the gem producing items and double their cost.

EA Pan was never an official part of the alliance - though I seemed to get along with him quite well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

atul said:
Heh, "alliance falls apart once all the major powers fell". Dunno whether that would have included my fall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




See not if you were on our team it wouldn't have... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
Your secret 6 alliance was not so secret. I knew 100 percent that the forge was being shared, and that LA Pangaea was a vassal after Velusion saved him from Vanheim. My secret alliance was with new players-not smart but fun.



I figured everyone knew there was some sort of alliance and the forge was getting shared. I assumed (though I didn't really care that much) that not everyone knew all the members though.

[Amhazair]

My turn then:

My intention at the start of the game was to use EA Oceania's water power and blessed Triton knights to dominate the seas, and then use that position to pump out a clam economy and wish my way to power. Unfortunately two issues interfered with that plan.

First, there was Evilhomer's Rlyeh. I met him quite early, and seriously considered launching an early war against him (a war I still believe I might have won, though at great cost - don't know if Evilhomer thinks the same though) However Homer's early expansion was quite awesome, and in the end I decided to go for easier pickings, not wanting to weaken myself in a costly war so early in the game. From that point on he was a constant threat looming on my border, getting ever stronger...

Second problem was my water income. Despite many attempts to trade for them it was horribly insufficient for my needs. It took me quite some time to even fully Voice of Tiamat all my provinces. Add to that the large number of amulets of the fish I had to forge to gain even a small foothold on land, and water boosters, and clamming wasn't very impressing. By the time R'lyeh and Ermor (and some others) combined to eliminate me I had roughly 75 clams. Sure, a nice boost to my gem income, but hardly game-breaking - and never enough to stockpile any amount of gems. (Apparently medium-sized MA Ermor had substantially more, enough said)

Add to that Oceania's quite appalling magic ability, and horrible landgoing capacity (I had underestimated this before playing) forcing me to spend lots of gems to conquer even a (by then) minor nation like Jomon, and I'm afraid I wasn't nearly as strong as the graphs made everyone suspect.

Still, I did my best to defend against a multiple-front assault, with some local successes, and generally had a blast playing this game. Thanks a lot Velusion, for making this possible, I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

P.S. Evilhomer (if you read this by the time you come back from holliday): How come you never used darkness against me? It was actually the spell I feared most during the whole game (yes, even more than master enslave) and would have basically rendered all my underwater armies quite useless, with no possible counter. And from your Excellent R'lyeh guide I knew you're perfectly aware of it's possibilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

P.P.S. Hah, but I hold the first two spots in the hall of fame. Obviously that amounts to a moral victory!

[Amhazair]

Velusion said:
I read somewhere that Purgatory does not affect friendly troops. I would have tested it before I cast the spell obviously...

It doesn't. My purgatory left my own undead untouched. And was quite usefull in my war against you as you're obviously aware of. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Not that your Tartarians and Ghost riders weren't enough to conquer half my lands, but still...

[solo]

Amhazair said:
P.S. Evilhomer (if you read this by the time you come back from holliday): How come you never used darkness against me? It was actually the spell I feared most during the whole game (yes, even more than master enslave) and would have basically rendered all my underwater armies quite useless, with no possible counter. And from your Excellent R'lyeh guide I knew you're perfectly aware of it's possibilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




EH is away, so I might try to answer. If you were referring to sea battles, I believe Darkness can not be cast underwater, which would be a pretty good reason.

I also agree this game was tremendous fun though I goofed by cornering myself from most of the action with friendly nations and NAP's for most of it!

[Amhazair]

solo said:

Amhazair said:
P.S. Evilhomer (if you read this by the time you come back from holliday): How come you never used darkness against me? It was actually the spell I feared most during the whole game (yes, even more than master enslave) and would have basically rendered all my underwater armies quite useless, with no possible counter. And from your Excellent R'lyeh guide I knew you're perfectly aware of it's possibilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif




EH is away, so I might try to answer. If you were referring to sea battles, I believe Darkness can not be cast underwater, which would be a pretty good reason.

I also agree this game was tremendous fun though I goofed by cornering myself from most of the action with friendly nations and NAP's for most of it!

Woops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif And here I go dreading it the entire game... Guess I'm still a noob. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

I'm still trying to come to grips with 4-5 wishes PER TURN.

By my estimation thats a gem income of anywhere between 950-1150 PER TURN (assuming you are wishing for gems).

[Velusion]

Amhazair said:
By the time R'lyeh and Ermor (and some others) combined to eliminate me I had roughly 75 clams.



Yea everyone guessed you had 2-3x more clams than you did have...

[Velusion]

The most frustrating part of the game was knowing that LA R'lyeh was winning and not being able to convince other big powers to do something about it.

IF Dr P.s description of his wishing power was correct it proves my public assumption from early on in the game about LA R'lyeh. There was no way I (or any other single power) could win against THAT. Props to EH and to all those that mocked my dire warnings...

I told you so!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I think I spent one wish on gems blood slaves instead, but otherwise, yeah, 4-5 wishes for gems (EDITED) per turn. I was planning to make a bunch of Armor of Souls, also figured that the communions could benefit from Rejuvenation, sending people to hell, etc.

The position was very unwieldy there are the end, I'm afraid I was not doing a terribly good job as a sub.

[Stelteck]

My turn : (I know nobody care of abysia, but i was in the game ^^^^^)

With such a huge number of player, i was expected to be rushed or attacked very soon, so my main design of my nation was defensive.
I did not plan at the start a plan to win the game. Only to survive. I survived ^^ But nothing else.

I choose a F9 Phoenix immortal pretender, i began to mass produced abysian mages and gardian of the pire.

Then i made three mystakes.

First, F9 was not enough for a bless strategy with gardian of the pire. These troops are horribly expansive and need double bless.

Second, i was chocked by the horrible Age-mecanism of LA abysian mages. All very expansive mage die very quickly by ages effect and i did not plan to have grow scale to counter it.

Third, i did not plan at the beginning to use blood magic, which was in fact my unique way to prevent my mages from age effect. (boots of youth). By the time i began to used blood magic and produce these boots, i already lost many many mages.

During the game, i was sometimes attacked by neighbourgs, and always managed to repel them, but each time any other power took the provinces of my foe for himself ^^^^

LA abysia is not an easy nation !!

Stelteck ^^

[solo]

Velusion said:
I'm still trying to come to grips with 4-5 wishes PER TURN.

By my estimation thats a gem income of anywhere between 950-1150 PER TURN (assuming you are wishing for gems).



Me, too! I was getting close to 2 wishes per turn with some help from alchemy, my blood stones and fever fetishes, which I thought was fairly decent. I was also forging a soul contract and summoning 4 Tartarians/turn, but this seems like small potatoes, now. My earlier attempt to overwrite The Forge of the Ancients also failed and I was surprised to find out that Vel's globals held up for so long. I had assumed many more gems used to cast each.

Amhazair,

I remember it was possible to cast Darkness underwater in previous versions. If I recall correctly, this was changed in a recent patch.

[Velusion]

solo said:
[My earlier attempt to overwrite The Forge of the Ancients also failed and surprised to find out that Vel's globals held up for so long. I had assumed many more gems used to cast each.



I was pleasantly surprised as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The gem producing globals simply aren't worth investing a lot of gems into... the return isn't that great unless you get lucky like I did.

Soul Gate was handy, but not really that big of a deal. The ethereal troops didn't get used much and were ineffective against SCs. I found having the tons of Lvl 1 priests pop up was better then the troops - as I could then reanimate even more.

[Ironhawk]

Reading the numbers you guys are throwing around in this thread is just jaw-dropping. You mention 999 gems like it is an everyday occurence! Crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

In response to an earlier comment - I've found that a good victory condition is around 40% (territory or VP). And the number goes down the larger the game gets so you might go to 30 or 35%. I know that, on the face of it, that number sounds too low... but it really does work out pretty well.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm an absolute believer in victory point *accumulation*.

It's somewhat hard to sell people on it because no-one understands how it works - but if you set the right value, the game goes into the end game, and then there is a climactic series of battle to decide the actual victor.

It also has the advantage that, unlike "regular" victory points, it's hard to get an ambush win relatively early (as often happens, especially if you play with Frank.)

[Kristoffer O]

Game-wise i agree with DrPret. Accumulated VP's are the best winning condition if set right. It might be difficult to guess where VP limit should be on a 62 player game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Acc. VP's will encourage war and make long lasting treaties with weak neighbors less interesting. Something that is probably needed in a game of this scope.
Or you will have to be clear about who's servant and who's master by giving your Lord your VP lands.

[Velusion]

See I've never liked accumulated victory points. It allows one player to get a sizable empire quickly and just sit on it for the win.

Also is disenfranchises smaller players from the game quickly. Once you fall behind it becomes very hard to catch up.

It also causes more "Teleport-to-win" games IMHO. I'd much rather have a "front" to deal with than have to constantly babysit VP provinces.

[Ironhawk]

Yeah I agree with Velusion. The most dominant player does not need to make a real stretch to win. Only get a moderate advantage in VPs and then turtle until thier advantage accumulates to a win.

In my experience, capital-only VPs are probably the most effective victory condition involving victory points. You know that the VP will be protected by a fort. And you know that ever player will defend that fort to the last man.

[Evilhomer]

Checking in on this thread to see what is going on now. I will have my computer back in a week now it seems, though it seems the game was abandoned ? A shame really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I belive with my huge gold/gem income it would have been tough to stop me...but anyway, good game to all of you.

[Velusion]

EH - I agree with you. I think the only thing that might have stopped you is if everyone joined up against LA R'lyeh, but that didn't seem too likely.

[Reay]

Yeah, after bordering LA R'lyeh for most of the game and seeing his work I would have to say he probably would have won this game eventually. It would have taken a while though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Unless we all grouped up on him which was not happening.