Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Finished!)

[Baalz]

Now that's just mean. ;P As if magic dueling poor Bifrons wasn't mean enough.

Unfortunately I get the feeling you may be opening up some more slots on my roster before I'm done with you. Still, anybody trying to snatch my devils should know I'll be immediately resummoning any that fall so there's a decent chance your blood slaves will be wasted.

[Lingchih]

1500 posts. 101 pages. A new milestone? Someone should write a book about this game. Although sadly, poor LA Pangaea would probably only get a mention in the appendix.

[Stelteck]

Server of the game down ?

I just get quicked from it and no way to reconnect.

Stelteck, LA abysia

[Stelteck]

Service seems restored.

Stelteck, the flamming people.

[quantum_mechani]

Hmm, even though I got no stale turn message, my orders from last turn didn't seem to get processed. Oh well, I guess it didn't work out so bad anyway.

[Arameyan]

A book or a novel about this game seems a good idea. A kind of wiki-based online novel where everyone write his own history.

[DrPraetorious]

Pfaugh! History is written by *the winners*. Whoever wins the game gets to write whatever glaringly self-serving, factually inaccurate history they want.

[Hadrian_II]

There is a history of perpetuality thread, where you can write down your history.

[Baalz]

I'd like to make a proposal regarding subs for this game. As we climb towards late game and it looks like things are just getting warmed up I thought we might address the question of how to handle temporary subs for nations in good positions. This came up with LA R'yleh, and it looks like Machaka is having trouble finding a sub. Specifically I'd like to propose that we allow subs who are already in the game. I believe the thinking behind banning one person from playing two nations was to stop somebody from essentially having a double sized empire. However, in the case of a temporary sub, particularly as we hit the late game and alliances are formed I think it makes more sense to allow someone to let their ally (or whoever they choose) play their nation temporarily. Nobody wants nations in strong positions to be forced to stale (particularly if it's your ally!), and I don't really see this giving anyone an advantage as the nations will (presumably) be working in concert anyway.

[Tichy]

I didn't think that was possible -- I think the game itself won't let you play more than one side in a hosted MP game. Is this true?

[Baalz]

It'll work fine, the issue is if more than one nation is played with the same CD key and *different IPs* on one turn. It works perfectly fine to play more than one nation from a single computer (I've done it in other games).

[Tichy]

Ah, learned something new. Thanks.

[Xietor]

I do not agree that we should allow 1 person to play 2 nations. Even allies can have different agendas as only 1 nation can ultimately prevail.

And there are different skill levels even among allies. Perhaps I do not fancy having K play more than 1 of the races I am fighting. One K is plenty to deal with, 2 is one too many.

And besides when I proposed taking a single turn for la rlyeh-if and only if i could not find a sub(but luckily i did)-it was rapidly shot down by velusion. And that was even after i offered to let gandalf check the turn file to guarantee nothing shady took place.

If i recall the popular sentiment-a stale turn or 2 will not kill him.

[Baalz]

Well, a stale turn or two won't kill you, but I was thinking more that it looks like Reay is gonna be out for several weeks and is having trouble finding a sub - a situation that seems likely to be repeated eventually by others given the length this game will likely run. Letting him stale that long is a certain death sentence. I agree it's not ideal to have a sub at all, but given that people will need to be absent, and that finding people to step in for a temporary stint is a bit difficult (and problematical for them to come up to speed on a large nation in late game) it seems like much the lesser of distasteful options to let the player use someone who he thinks will best represent his interests.

Plus, speaking as the guy who suddenly found himself at war with QM I can say your objection about skill level differences in subs is certainly not limited to people playing more than one nation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[atul]

Several people who had been killed early on did express interest in subbing other nations a while ago. But it'd seem they're not that interested anymore?

[Xietor]

I am the admin of the Epic Heroes Game, and it looks like with school starting and summer over, many people are overextended on games and are looking for subs.

So it may be no easy thing to find a sub. That said, i am going to pause the Epic Heroes Game and look for a sub for a few days. If one cannot be found, the race will be set on Ai, even though it has the most provinces(though it is not winning).

That is precisely what needs to happen here as well. In no event should one player be playing 2 nations. Maybe for one turn in a pinch, but no more than that.

As I stated when LA Ryleh needed to find a sub, I will support a delay of 48 hours for subs to be found. If none can be, then they just have to be put on AI. So far we have LA Tien Chi and Machaka needing subs.

I will ask around. There are several players being eliminated in the Epic Heroes Game that are not playing in the Big game. Maybe they would be willing to take over these races.

Anyway Velusion, I vote for 24 hour additional delay to find subs. If none can be found, then set them to AI.

[Baalz]

hehe, that might work out well for me as Machaka and LA TC are at war with each other and I border both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Baalz said:
hehe, that might work out well for me as Machaka and LA TC are at war with each other and I border both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Both will get new players, they wont like their war and focus on you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Velusion]

Players will not ever be able to play two nations in Perp. This would have been something hat needed to be decided before the game started.

I've had bad experiences in other MP computer games were people were either actually "rigging" the game by playing more than one nation or the perception was that it was happening. Whatever the intentions it left a bad taste in many people's mouths and is not something I'm inclinded to ever allow.

While it sucks that sometimes players stale or become unavailable, I'm afraid that is how things go.

[Reay]

I have just found a temporary sub for Machaka who will start playing in a few hosts. He will play for a month and then I will come back to continue. (if I have not been destroyed in the mean time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

LA TC and I are currently having a very entertaining (and deadly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif) war. Whoever replaces LA TC will be in for an interesting time indeed.

[Xietor]

Do you mind saying who your sub is? I tried to find you and la tc subs, and it may help me find TC a sub if i know who you got.

[Reay]

Yep his name is Burnsaber. He wants to learn more about the Machakan mid-late game so we will see how he goes.

[Salamander8]

Burnsaber is Machaka in the Chinchilla game that I am also in. I haven't met his forces in game but he seems like a decent chap from his posts.

[Evilhomer]

I have resumed control over LA R'lyeh

[Xietor]

Let MA Ctis be the 1st to welcome you back EH. How was camp?

If you follow the boards, you will be surprised to know that you and I are ALLIES! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Though I am quite sure Folket overlooked that small fact in his briefing. But why believe Folket when you have most of the LA Atlantis Alliance swearing we are in bed together?

Now be a good ally and send your little brother aid!

[Tichy]

We shall call it the Battle of the Sixteen Ticked-Off Sages.

EA Mictlan thought he could take out MA TC's Rim Mountains Research Corridor. Our sages looked up from their desks and musty tomes. Annoyed by the interruption, they burned minds and called down light from the stars while crossbow bolts drifted like a gentle rain 'pon the newly en-souped brains of the exhausted jaguar warriors.

At the end of the day, the sages, intrigued by what they learned, started work on a team-authored article "Lookit his eyes go all buggy!:Mind Burn in Theory and Practice," forthcoming in The Journal of Astral Sciences.

[Velusion]

The world should know that LA Ermor is losing ground on LA R'lyeh - who is casting Undead Mastery with his artifact filled SCs.

So LA R'lyeh's ranks grow stronger with my forces as he gains ground.

I also know that LA Atlantis has lost ground to him as well.

[Xietor]

Velusion,

Maybe LA Atlantis Alliance (aka Evil Empire), should focus more of their efforts there then, instead of continuing their attempts to eradicate tiny MA Ctis who has attempted to dwell peacefully in the NW corner. They have also found time to eradicate EA Rlyeh and if scouting is accurate, EA Atlantis.

So it is hard to take any cries of a LA Ryleh threat too seriously when i see waves of troops descending on my lands every turn. And MA Oceania at least is capable of travel through the water.

Maybe you can talk your allies into sending more of their troops to fight this "Perilous Foe" rather than gobble up nations that are no threat to world balance.

At least one of the small nations they attempted to gobble got caught in their throat. After 30 turns of war, countless of their troops dead, gems spent, items lost, and what do they have to show for it?

The Lizards of MA Ctis now own MORE land then when the Evil Empire first invaded. And, they have pissed off the Lizards to the point they would not accept peace if offered. So save your breath LA Atlantis Alliance. And defend your lands. The Lizards are coming!

[Hadrian_II]

If i look at the graph, it looks like no one is fighting with rlyeh, as no graphs go really down. Both Oceanias and LA Atlantis are having the biggest real armies (real: no chaff like dreamers, skeletons and maenads) so there should something be possible in the water.

[sum1lost]

At this stage in the game, just about everything is chaff.

I'm surprised that the blood nations aren't doing well, by now. I would be very, very amused if someone cast Astral Corruption sometime around now.

[quantum_mechani]

I'd just like to put in that while I've enjoyed subbing for EA Van, I've ended up staling a few turns and will in any case shortly have even less time for long term games. So if by next turn another sub hasn't expressed interest I guess I will be turning it over to the AI.

[Evilhomer]

The world should know that LA Ermor is losing ground on LA R'lyeh - who is casting Undead Mastery with his artifact filled SCs.

So LA R'lyeh's ranks grow stronger with my forces as he gains ground.

I also know that LA Atlantis has lost ground to him as well.



You can try making it sound like im a bigger threat than you, but anyone that has glanced at the graphs knows the opposite is really true.

I invite any nation that consider LA ermor a threat to contact me - lets do something before velusian becomes way too powerful.

[DrPraetorious]

Of course he's a *threat*, evilhomer.

But he doesn't have most of the relics and elemental royalty. Come on.

Now, if you wanted to deliberately reduce your size, and otherwise offer huge, crass bribes to the second-tier nations, you might have a viable proposal.

[Evilhomer]

I know you are allied with him so I understand your "view". However, this game won't be won due to some elemental royalties.

[Hadrian_II]

Elemental royality is also a pretty limited source, while tartarians are almost as strong and are in unlimitted suply.

[Huzurdaddi]

So when is the next game like this starting? It sounds pretty insane!

[DrPraetorious]

The consensus is that it will be won by diplomacy. I do not know if you've *actually* been threatening people, demanding bribes to refrain from crushing them, and so forth. I'm not going to fault you for playing agressively, I've been known to be somewhat agressive myself, but you've either been too beligerent by far, or you've lost the propoganda war in any case.

Ermor has not - and the only player he's well known for crushing has been Nifelheim, an act widely viewed as a public service.

Furthermore, you've been aiding/supplying players who are about to be crushed. This is a good idea in a sense, as it weakens those doing the crushing; I certainly don't fault a player for taking one last stab in the eye of the one who eliminates him.

However, by aiding such players you've earned a lot of enemies (including me), and not made any friends.

That said, while Knife Bright Insight may *appear* to be indifferent to Ermor's losses against you, that is because he has assigned no less than a dozen Monks who try *really really hard* to be sad. Hopefully, the struggle between R'lyeh and Ermor won't end in mutual slaughter, because then I'd need an absolute *army* of monks to spend all their time being miserable. Who wants that?

[Evilhomer]

you've lost the propoganda war in any case



I dunno, many are reasonable and realise that a Man + LA ermor + LA atlantis + EA lanka alliance is very dangerous too the rest of the players.


Ermor has not - and the only player he's well known for crushing has been Nifelheim, an act widely viewed as a public service.



Ermor has made war on many nations - none has been "public service".


However, by aiding such players you've earned a lot of enemies (including me), and not made any friends.



I don't view a mutual trade as aiding - anyway we will see if I stand alone in this.... if people know whats good for them they won't let your evil alliance take them out one by one without doing something about it.

[jutetrea]

Well I was hoping to leave any notifications to my sub, but since I haven't had any luck finding one yet...

LA TC is another nation being attacked by Ermor, just a few thousand undead rolling in, messing up real estate values. I see about 4k at this point, and I'm pretty sure there are another 2-3k right around the corner.

At this point it isn't against any "alliance", just Ermor and my ill advised war with Machaka. LA Atlantis has actually been a very good neighbor, friendly and helpful and have not had any contact with Lanka or Man.

Any assistance would be helpful, and can be paid for through gems/gold/items/future considerations.

Really wish I had the time and interest to do this properly, I've assumed it would happen eventually and had planned a bit. Sure no one wants to sub into a strong nation that will be very interesting shortly?

[Velusion]

Because I'm a nice guy (nicer than LA R'lyeh) I'm going to share the eye of god map image to everyone:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/perpeye.jpg

I'll keep updating it every 3 or so turns for as long as I got the eye up.

[Lingchih]

It won't load.

[Velusion]

Lingchih said:
It won't load.



Might load slowly but it should load. Some people on the IRC channel have already looked at it.

[Lingchih]

Oh my God. I guess I never realized how huge this map was until looking at this. This game will take years to play!

[Velusion]

Well I guess someone doesn't want me to share the eye with everyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

I do think its funny that someone spent more gems to cancel my spell then I did to overcast it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.

P.S. you only got to blind some random indy mage btw. hehe

[DrPraetorious]

Wooo.... nice SCs, MA Agartha. Those are gonna be a real pain, all flying around burning down my temples. A real administrative headache to hunt them down, no doubt.

I hereby salute MA Agartha for his excellent choice in attacking me! I look forward to a rousing battle and I congratulate him on his choice of a glorious death at my hands! Huzzah!

Although I am not the agressor (for once), I am willing to show good form and make an offer-of-no-scorched earth; each side agrees not to spam the other with hurricanes, plagues (the ones that kill population - kill all the troops you want), no taxing at 200%, no tearing down labs and castles, etc. etc. In fact, I'd be willing to engage in one of those all-gems-to-the-victor agreements that have been requested variously.

By sparing our respective civilian populations and infrastructure as well as is possible, we will benefit whichever of us emerges the victor, Let me know this turn, so I don't start shutting down your forts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[atul]

I'm quite interested to see what kind of administration you put up - luckily undead do not drown into paperwork.

MA Agartha's hand was pretty much forced by your yesterday's admission "making plots against you, just not yet implementing them", which is as good an invitation to war as those get. But looking forward to a good trashing, I might lose the verbal acrobatics battle but moral loss is only half the battle - let loose the mindless hordes! They care not of morale.

I'm willing to make the gentlemen's agreement, as long as it is complete. No killing of civilian population, destruction of infrastructure nor sudden orchestrated gangings. Should you feel you can be proud for crushing MA Agartha, do it with honor, not with backhanded deals!

MA Agartha marches to war once again, this time against an opponent on equal footing. And the history is written by the victors.

[Saint_Dude]

For anyone that may be interested. . . EA Pan (free spawn nation with large army and nasty pretender) is in bed with the undead (LA Ermor).

Also of potential interest. . . EA Pan's pretender and 2000 or so troops are holed up behind the castle walls in Venna (prov 508), where they will remain for the next 2+ turns. A few well placed Leprosy or Rain of Toads would soften them up nicely and thereby weaken the unholy alliance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

[sum1lost]

Don't pangean troops have recuperation?

[Velusion]

Saint_Dude said:
For anyone that may be interested. . . EA Pan (free spawn nation with large army and nasty pretender) is in bed with the undead (LA Ermor).



Huh? Thats news to me.

We are cordial (as we would have to be being neighbors for so long) but we aren't allied, don't share plans and I have no idea what he is doing outside of our borders...

If people want to spell-devastate EA Pan's lands for fun, that's their business... just don't get the idea you are at all hurting me via EA Pan.

[Saint_Dude]

Long term cordial neighbors definitely serve each others interests, even if there is no formal alliance. All I know is that EA Pan is comfortable aggregating the majority of his forces along his northern border, leaving the vast southern border that he shares with the undead unprotected. In the grand scheme of things, he may not be a direct ally (coordinating attacks on a mutual opponent), but he is definitely a facilitator. And by choosing to facilitate Ermor, Pan goes down as Evil in my book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Although, now that sum1one reminds me that Pan's troops have recuperation, I am not sure remote disease spells will have much effect. I guess, I will have to just wait for them to come out of the castle so that I can kill them off in hand-to-hand. 150 vs. 2000. Gotta love them odds.

[jutetrea]

This is SPARTAAAA!

[Velusion]

Saint_Dude said:
In the grand scheme of things, he may not be a direct ally (coordinating attacks on a mutual opponent), but he is definitely a facilitator. And by choosing to facilitate Ermor, Pan goes down as Evil in my book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




As long as he doesn't "facilitate" on my lawn... damn kids.

[Szumo]

Saint_Dude said:
For anyone that may be interested. . . EA Pan (free spawn nation with large army and nasty pretender) is in bed with the undead (LA Ermor).

Also of potential interest. . . EA Pan's pretender and 2000 or so troops are holed up behind the castle walls in Venna (prov 508), where they will remain for the next 2+ turns. A few well placed Leprosy or Rain of Toads would soften them up nicely and thereby weaken the unholy alliance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif



Time for desperate measures, huh?

A few points of interest:
1. Any remote spells are propably going to hurt your sieging army, not my meneads.
2. I coudn't care less if you kill them all really. I get several hundred new ones each turn which is enough for chaff, they can't really kill anything and i have to feed them.
3. By your definition, i'm allied with all my neighbours, including LA Ermor and LA Atlantis. Except you of course, because of your "negotiation tactics".
4. At this point of game my pretender is not much more than a researcher, unfortunately. Still, she did her job quite well so far.
5. Menead is the only EA Pangea's unit without recuperation.

[K]

I need to bow out due to law school obligations. I'll need a sub for the next turn.

Xietor,

Would you mind not attacking this turn to give the new sub a chance to figure out what is going on?

[Xietor]

K,

You have been as good a foe as I have fought. So of course i will do you that courtesy-with 1 exception. I will pm you in detail about the exception and will take your word that you will not use the knowledge against me.

[DrPraetorious]

What is a "sudden orchestrated ganging"?

[Xietor]

Dr. P said:
What is a "sudden orchestrated ganging"?

That is what the LA Atlantis Alliance attempted to do to me-unsuccessfully. It is what they did do successfully to Tir Nog. For more clarification, do a séance and speak with the departed spirit of Tir Nog's pretender.

[Baalz]

Xietor said:
That is what the LA Atlantis Alliance attempted.....



Aw, come on, we can come up with a better name for them than that. Axis of Naughty...League of Extraordinary Bedwetters...who all is part of it? What do you name yourself?

[Xietor]

"What do you name yourself?"

300 Spartans

"Who all is a part of it?"

I can only speak of the western continent, but when the attempted gang bang started:

LA Atlantis
MA Oceania
EA Lanka
LA Man

But the war took its toll on LA Man, and his armies are now loyal only to himself.

EA Lanka is getting a sub-whether the sub will want to remain in bed with LA Atlantis-time will tell. Personally, if i was the sub, my 1st official act would be to renounce any prior ties and start my diplomacy anew.

I am sure MA Man and perhaps EA Oceania are also aligned with LA Atlantis. But as they are far from my lands, their involvement with LA Atlantis concerns me little.

LA Ermor, by his own admission, is working with the LA Atlantis Alliance, but for the limited purpose of fighting LA Rlyeh.

So that is the big picture, as seen by the eyes of the Western Lizards. /waves at his cousins on the eastern shores and wishes them luck!

[Baalz]

*snort* I was more looking for a suitable moniker for the group that allegedly tried to have their way with you. Who's part of this Coalition of the Gangings? This Federation of Fishes? You need a proper name!

[DrPraetorious]

Ah, well, I certainly can't guarantee that no-one else will attack MA Agartha.

In fact, I can basically guarantee that other people *will* attack MA Agartha - in the aforementioned plotting, I was the one advocating delay http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Xietor]

I think when ma agartha is attacked, that will fill in whatever doubts any interested in who is in the alliance on the eastern realm may have.

My cousins EA and LA Ctis are always loved because they are, after all, Lizards. So even if my cousins are part of the Evil Empire, should we ever meet, well cold blood is thicker than Water! I will fully expect a savage betrayal of your former allies and a new alliance of Lizards!

[atul]

I admit I've been the one sleeping in the Great Diplomacy Game, as the ones I've counted among friends have been already killed by my current neighbours. But that's only fitting for a twilight race, the last ones to shut down the lights.

But I'm hard pressed to believe that the delay MA Man was advocating was for any other reason than his losses in his war against EA C'tis. Perhaps you were afraid your "friends" would take a too large a slice off the pie if you hadn't had the time to mass forces at my border? After all, should they have gained too much ground it would've made it harder for you to crush them in turn.

And Xietor, regarding EA C'tis you're too late. Your lizard brethen have been crushed already by Man.

[Xietor]

/cry Lizard tears for my cousin.

Beware Lizard killers, the tails of the Lizards are long, and our teeth sharp!

[DrPraetorious]

I resent the implication that I turn on - and crush - my allies. I never allied with EA C'tis, there was an arrangement of temporary convenience only. I don't see how he could've construed "I have no plans to invade you at this time" in any other way.

LA C'tis is a permanent ally. Totally different deal.

Anyway, I was advocating delay because I wanted to get the diplomatic situation straightened out; a quandry from which I am now clearly resolved http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. If I'd been certain that we were attacking you I would've said so.

Troops are like toilet paper - I expect to consume them in great scads but it's hardly a concern to a celestial being such as myself.

[Xietor]

"LA C'tis is a permanent ally. Totally different deal."

Cold Blood is thicker than the ink of your treaties. In the unlikely event MA Ctis ever lands on the Eastern Shores, we know we can rely on our cousins to fight at our side!

[RamsHead]

DrPraetorious said:
I resent the implication that I turn on - and crush - my allies. I never allied with EA C'tis, there was an arrangement of temporary convenience only. I don't see how he could've construed "I have no plans to invade you at this time" in any other way.


I maintain that we did have a NAP, but since that was a long time ago and the in-game message system was used, I chose not to pursue the argument any further. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue. You are correct that we never had an alliance though.


DrPraetorious said:
Troops are like toilet paper - I expect to consume them in great scads but it's hardly a concern to a celestial being such as myself.


You lost more than just troops. You lost quit a few mages (some holding a large amount of gems) to the two earthquakes in the swamp, and your god was dispatched easily enough by serpent dancers.


Xietor said:
Cold Blood is thicker than the ink of your treaties. In the unlikely event MA Ctis ever lands on the Eastern Shores, we know we can rely on our cousins to fight at our side!


Just like they did our's? (not that EA C'tis asked them to)

[Arameyan]

Just like they did our's? (not that EA C'tis asked them to)



We let Man free your people from a false god. All the scaled folks are welcome in our lands. We offer a hot tempered country, with desert and swamp resorts.

[Jazzepi]

RamsHead said:

DrPraetorious said:
I resent the implication that I turn on - and crush - my allies. I never allied with EA C'tis, there was an arrangement of temporary convenience only. I don't see how he could've construed "I have no plans to invade you at this time" in any other way.


I maintain that we did have a NAP, but since that was a long time ago and the in-game message system was used, I chose not to pursue the argument any further. We will just have to agree to disagree on this issue. You are correct that we never had an alliance though.


DrPraetorious said:
Troops are like toilet paper - I expect to consume them in great scads but it's hardly a concern to a celestial being such as myself.


You lost more than just troops. You lost quit a few mages (some holding a large amount of gems) to the two earthquakes in the swamp, and your god was dispatched easily enough by serpent dancers.


Xietor said:
Cold Blood is thicker than the ink of your treaties. In the unlikely event MA Ctis ever lands on the Eastern Shores, we know we can rely on our cousins to fight at our side!


Just like they did our's? (not that EA C'tis asked them to)



All that the people of Midgard had predicted has come true!

Jazzepi, (ghost of Midgard)

[Shuma]

Velusion, can you update the player list to put me as the owner of LA Jomon? fate quit some time ago and had me put in as a sub and he has received quite a few messages meant for me.

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Sure...

Also anyone else who is a perm sub please let me know.

[Meglobob]

EA Lanka is now under new leadership.

Anyone with NAP's/Alliances, agreements, PM or in game message me. I will give them due consideration and let you know if I will continue with them.

The new leadership bears no ill will to any other nation or god. Everyone has a clean slate as far as I am concerned.

In the next few turns or so EA Lanka will seek to just defend my own lands and not make any hostile actions vs anyone else.

[Velusion]

There has been some discussion on subbing and how subs are found. I wanted to clear the air - and this applys to all the games I host.

1) I won't start looking for a sub for players unless they have at least staled once.
2) I post a thread in the MP forums asking for volunteers if the leaving player hasn't already. IF the previous owners ever wanted to exclude people from taking over their position I would honor it.
3) Other players who have a vested interest are free to bump the thread (as I might do) but only the original player can exclude people from taking over their empire.
4) If I deem a nation to be in a really bad shape I'll request that it be put on AI, rather than ask for a sub. The orginal owner is still free to find a real sub if he wishes.
5) Players still in the game may NOT sub for another nation.

My goal (and it can be hard) is just to find a warm body to take over the nation. I don't advertise or notify people before I put up the "sub needed" thread and I always go with first come first serve.

I would HOPE that the player taking over the nation will at least honor or give notice on NAPs. However, as the player could always lie, I won't bother trying to force this requirement.

I hope that this clears things up. I'm not always aware of the politics/disagreements that happened before/during the game... I just try to put a body with a nation... nothing more.

[Velusion]

Looks like I'll be looking for a permanent sub for LA Atlantis. *le sigh*

[Xietor]

I will post on both of my mp game threads and say the LA Atlantis spot is now open as well. I doubt a sub will be hard to find, he had a decent position.

[Baalz]

Hmmm, whats going on? Seems like the western power block just took its ball and went home...

Oh well, I'd rather stomp on Bob anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Xietor]

K did have a legitimate reason for leaving the game. real life is greater than a game-however fun. And he was a great adversary.

[DrPraetorious]

To be fair, Frank *did* just start driving ambulances again. I might need a sub myself if this drags into October, as I've got a fair amount of work to do.

This puts me in a bit of a lurch, as I may get a replacement for Frank who won't pay me back the several hundred gems he still owes me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Xietor]

Velusion:

I think with all the changes, perhaps we could take an extra 24 hours? personally I am fine. In fact my turn is already in.

But the face of the Western continent just changed significantly, and this seems to be an appropriate time for a small pause.

Just my 2 cents.

[Velusion]

There have not been any pauses in the past when large nations stale, nor will there be one now.

Which sucks for me because LA Atlantis was helping me against LA R'lyeh. But that's how the cookie crumbles.

The game will advance, inexorably, towards it's bitter end. Mistakes, exceptions and delays be damned!

[Meglobob]

Velusion said:
Looks like I'll be looking for a permanent sub for LA Atlantis. *le sigh*



Velusion said:
Which sucks for me because LA Atlantis was helping me against LA R'lyeh. But that's how the cookie crumbles.



Sorry, I did not mean to effect the game so much by subbing for Lanka. I will sub for Lanka if you want me too but if it would be better to keep LA Atlantis, then I will withdraw. I don't want to spoil/upset a major power block within the game.

Really, I am not going to do anything that has a negative effect on La Atlantis other than stop the destructive war with Ctis, which is not benefiting Lanka as for as I can tell.


Baalz said:
Oh well, I'd rather stomp on Bob anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

Lanka does not even border LA Atlantis. And in fact is nowhere close to LA Atlantis. I am quite sure LA Atlantis' departure has nothing to you with you playing Lanka.

I doubt K himself would say the war between us has been profitable for him. There have been horrific losses on both sides, and zero progress made either way in terms of land gained/lost.

[Velusion]

Meglobob said:
Sorry, I did not mean to effect the game so much by subbing for Lanka. I will sub for Lanka if you want me too but if it would be better to keep LA Atlantis, then I will withdraw. I don't want to spoil/upset amajor power block within the game.




I'm always glad to have a dedicated sub fill in for a departing player.

Any sub will always change the status quo that can't be helped. People just have to adjust... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I'd certainly be happier. In many ways I prefer untrustworthy opponents, I've played enough diplomacy to greatly respect dishonesty, but the whole situation is complicated at this point.

Lanka is certainly in a strong enough position to stale for a turn - or Meglobob could take a turn anyway, since he's just going to tread water for a turn it shouldn't make any difference. I'll see if I can get in touch with K IRL.

However, Frank might just be using this as an excuse to bow out over work, too - I know he's been pretty stretched and might just have been staying in to honor the many, many agreements he's had. With Frank out of the picture it makes much less of a difference (to me at least) whether or not I can cut deals with Lanka.

His insistence that he won't tolerate subs from within game - while reasonable in principle - falls apart because there simply *isn't* anyone else here to sub.

I do think that with the combination of fewer people, more complex turns (visions of void spectres are dancing in my head) and summer drawing to a close it wouldn't be unreasonable to switch to 72h turns for those of us tied to the school year - maybe not now, but soon.

P.S. - DOOM!

[Velusion]

I've had a few people mention 72 hour turns. We'll go ahead move to them at turn 65 (7 turns).

[Baalz]

*shrug* I don't really know what all went on, but knowing Frank's history of poor sportsmanship this sudden bailing smells like his characteristic huff about something he doesn't like. Since he won't respond in the forum (because he left in a huff over something he didn't like) I'll just assume that's what it is. Not at all to disparage anyone else who needs to bow out....but there's a big difference in how jutetrea's been trying for over a week to find a sub - and playing in the mean time - and what I have to assume is a deliberate attempt to inconvenience as many people as possible by suddenly destabilizing one of the largest power blocks in this huge game.

[Meglobob]

Ok then, I should be able to do Lankas turn by the deadline with an hour or two to spare. From then on 48 hrs is no problem to me.

The entire idea of me subbing is to fill a gap not to create one, so if Frank or anyone else of the alliance can find a alternative sub for Lanka within the next couple of turns, lets say 3 turns. I will step aside for there sub.

Frank has obviously put a lot of effort into the game and the alliance, so I would not want him to leave the game because of me subbing for Lanka. This would be very unfair and defeat the object of me subbing. So I hope he stays in the game or if he leaves it is for life/job reasons.

K has left Lanka in extremly good shape and a big thanks to him for providing a handy checklist of whats going on with the nation.

[Xietor]

"Sent to: Meglobob
There is no reason for you to withdraw.

While Lanka was a member of la atlantis alliance, there can be no expectation that subs also remain in an alliance with other people.

Actually the purpose of a sub is to play the race to the best of his ability as he sees fit. In other words, to play the race in a manner that best benefits that race-not someone else."

And here is my response to that. Now if you determine it is in Lanka's best interest to continue the war-that is fine by me. I told you that in my 1st message. Heck, does K even think that continuing the war with Ctis is in Lanka's best interest?

Even original players bail out on alliances at times-only one player can win. By his own admission, Dr. P likes dishonesty in diplomacy, so should his allies be surprised one day when the knife slides home?

Why should a sub be held to a higher standard than the original player?

I also strongly suspect LA Atlantis is quitting over something he does not like in game. But I think it sends the wrong signal to give in to his threat of taking his ball and going home. The fact is-he was never going to win this game anyway. I was not going to let him.

[DrPraetorious]

Xietor, I'm going to have to disagree.

Personally, I wouldn't be willing to accept a sub who wouldn't honor my alliances and crush my enemies. If that were the option, I'd give all my stuff to an ally and go CPU.

In the obvious example of the war between you and C'tis, this means Lanka won't be paying Atlantis back for the extensive favors that Atlantis did for Lanka in the past. In a sense this is good, because I think people honor their agreements too scrupulously and that cooperation should be riskier. OTOH, I'd be pissed off if someone subbed for me and then screwed over my allies, as this is not something I'd do.

This is impossible to adjudicate except by the person-who-is-being-subbed-for; maybe Lanka was planning to betray LA Atlantis anyway, I certainly can't know for sure. But the sub should obey the diplomatic instructions of the subee, which obviously I haven't seen. It seems unlikely to me that Meglobob's stated intentions are in accord with what K would've allowed, but that's just speculation on my part. If K included no diplomatic info, that may have been what he had in mind.

Anyway, yes, Frank *is* in a funk, no question. He generally gets worse when he's driving an ambulance.

[Evilhomer]

I always give even my temporary subs rather loose ideas about what I want - whats the fun in playing a game where you are not allowed to play the way you want ?.

I think its obvious that a permanent sub needs to honor trade agreements (say if gems or money is owed in some way), and NAP as well - else than that he/she should be allowed to do whatever they please.

[Zoshan]

Ok here is my 2 cents.

If the sub is a true sub and will only be playing for a short time then the sub should try to play just like the original player.

If the sub is taking over and the original player is not coming back then the sub becomes the NEW player and can do whatever he/she wants. The King/Queen is dead long live the new King/Queen.

Now the way in which LA Atlantis is quitting the game it makes it look like he is leaving in a Huff. Very child like. I dont know much about this guy but from what I have read here on the boards its not all good. Also the messages he sent me in game makes me think he would act this way. I will however try not to judge someone by what goes on here as this is not real life.

[Xietor]

What Franktrollman should do, if he wants my respect(admittedly most people do not live their lives to achieve this noble goal), is to take a deep breath, and recognize that one of his friends had to leave the game for real life issues.

Also recognize that the legitimate sub, while not his ally, has stated he will play Lanka to the best of his ability, with
a clean slate. LA Atlantis can show his skill in both diplomacy and gameplay, by adapting to the change in circumstances, and continuing to play to win.

What is the net effect of Lanka ending his war with me to LA Atlantis? I am not going away even if the war continues.
Lanka did tie up my main armies, but i am still not going to leave my borders unprotected. So those large armies will remain just where they have been. Only a fool leaves a border unguarded.

Lanka still may be open to diplomacy from LA Atlantis. Who knows? It is your job to demonstrate your diplomatic skill.
Maybe you can convince him/bribe him to continue his war against me. That is up to you, and him.

But why should a reasonable player taking over a new race, unless he is LA atlantis sister or close friend, grind his own nation down to help some other nation prosper? That is the question LA Atlantis needs to address with Lanka.

All quiting the game in a "huff" so to speak does, is put you in a bad light. That is my 2 cents. Coming into the game i had never even heard of you. So I had a neutral opinion.
If you leave now, I will not lie, I would never allow you in any game I ran.

At the very least you should find a sub yourself. At best, you suck up the loss of an ally-just as we all may have to do-and move on. Did you think that because you had a premade alliance entering the game it was going to be given to you on a silver platter?

If so, you were mistaken. There are many excellent players in this game you have never faced before, and they are not going to make it easy for you. If you want to be the head that wears the crown-fine. Earn it!

[Hadrian_II]

I also think some people take this alliance thing way too serious. As dom3 is about to get your pretender to ascend into godhood, there is just no place for alliance victories. Sure you can make (temporary) NAPs with other players, and work together with others for your own benefit. But if you are creating an alliance with the target to win the game together, this is in my opinion almost cheating.

[Saint_Dude]

Wow, sounds like a lot of huffing going on. But I am at a loss when I try to locate Frank's huffy comments.

Could it just be that real life (computer/connection issues, crazy hours at work, or something more personal) has interfered with Frank's ability to get his turns in? If so, I doubt he would be too inclined to return to such a welcoming environment.

Moreover, real life interference can take many forms. If someone has a particularly stressful job (ambulance driver perhaps), it is possible to get into an emotional funk that makes it very difficult to care much about such trivialities as this (especially if a significant time commitment is involved).

I am not condoning this manner of leaving a game (if that is Frank's intent), but give the guy some slack. I don't see the need to smear his name over several pages, or ban him from future games.

As a player, I was very impressed with LA Atlantis' performance. Frank demonstrated exceptional skill and a high level of diplomacy (which I would find exhausting). At this point of the game, my money was on LA Atlantis for the win. If he was playing a two-bit part in this game (like myself), I doubt that anyone would care about the manner of his departure. The fact that the whole world reverberates with his leaving speaks volumes about his position.

[Xietor]

"But I am at a loss when I try to locate Frank's huffy comments."

That is not surprising as he apparently does not post on the boards, but that does not mean he does not communicate with people.

And I did not say he made "huffy" comments. My precise intent is that if he is leaving the game because he was not allowed to hand pick another player's permanent sub, then that conduct-to me-is leaving in a huff.

Obviously if Lanka had wanted LA Atlantis to hand pick his sub, he would have assigned him that task-just like EH assigned me the task of finding his sub for him. Since Lanka did not assign LA Atlantis that task, imho, he needs to deal with it.

[K]

Frank just started a job as an Emergency Medical Tech(EMT). In case anyone isn't aware, the hours on that kind of job is like 36 hours on, 24 off, 36 on. Its pretty nuts, so I think this is less of a "he left in a huff" move on his part and more of a "no human being could get quality turns done on that kind of schedule."

On a personal note, good game everyone. My only regret is that I didn't cast Astral Corruption when I had the chance.

And I'd like to do a public shout-out to Xietor. Our war was bloody and brutal with horrific losses on both sides, as well as being surprisingly unprofitable. I definitely had to bring my A-game, and I still was never sure if it was going to be enough. For that I am grateful, as it pushed me to improve and expand my game.

So I tip my demonic monkey horns to you.

[DrPraetorious]

There's a lot of additional IRL stuff going on here that makes this a complicated situation. Meglobob has said he's okay with a different sub - but I'll still take K's input on that question before locating one.

That said, if Xietor were effectively eliminated and playing only to destroy Frank, that would be fine. Since Xietor *isn't* eliminated, is at about mid-quantile, and is still playing only for a vendetta, and doesn't know the extent of the favors that Atlantis did for Lanka earlier in the game (which are wasted if meglobob takes over), I it might be wise to consider carefully before criticizing people for their sportsmanship.

[Xietor]

Thank you K for everything.

It appears Frank is in fact leaving the game for real life issues-so I do owe him an apology for the implication that he was leaving in a "huff." But if he is in fact leaving, there is no reason whatsoever Dr. P should be finding a sub for lanka.

One has already been found, and he apparently realizes what K has confirmed-the war had been bloody and neither side profited. So Dr. P wants to find a sub for Lanka who will not play Lanka to win, but promote Dr. P's agenda?

Am I the only one that has an issue with that?

*As an aside, yes i had a vendetta against Frank, and he knows why. Since he will not respond on the forums, I will not take any shots at him he cannot reply to.

But If a new player is playing LA Atlantis-i will put aside any issues I had with LA Atlantis. In other words-new player-clean slate. Just like with Lanka.

[DrPraetorious]

I am absolutely not interested in recruiting players who would be spoilers - either for me, or against anyone else.

If Frank is indeed leaving - I'm trying to talk him out of it - then, as I said, Meglobob can have the position, makes little difference to me. At that point I'm (with Frank's permission) recruiting a sub for *him*, and I would like to recruit someone who will pay me back the gems LA Atlantis owes me, which I hardly regard as someone who's going to throw the game my way, thank you.

Anyway I'm opposed to the whole "clean slate" thing. You're supposed to be at war with other positions - not with other *players*.

[Xietor]

The point is Dr. P you have no more right to recruit a sub for lanka than me(and i have none). In fact, since I am the one who has been at war with him for gawd knows how long, no one other than K knows Lanka's position better than me.

And you in no way have any right to recruit someone for lanka that has any predisposition to your position. Sorry. I do not care if you loaned him 10,000 gold etc.

I will agree that K has the right to select his own sub. No one disputes that. What I am unclear on is this, did K ask Velusion to find a sub for him(rather than dr p or someone else?). If he asked velusion, then Velusion did the job.

If velusion just saw that lanka staled 1 turn, and on his own went out and got a sub, then i see your point. But if he was asked by the player to get a sub for him-and did so-what right do you have to find a different one? And what issues do you have with the one that signed up to play Lanka?

That is the risk inherent in loaning people gems etc. And i will say no matter how many "favors" Atlantis did for lanka,
they in no way compensated lanka for all the losses he incurred in our war.

[Velusion]

I've updated my Server Status/Rules page with the guidelines I posted earlier:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=507308&fpar t=&PHPSESSID=

Please refer to it if you have any questions about replacement players and PM me directly if it doesn't address your issue. I won't be responding to this topic in the forums as I consider the issue moot.

[jutetrea]

My opinions, since there seem to be a lot flying around:

Frank is/was a good player and good to play with.

How/when/why he leaves is his own business. IMO common courtesy just involves giving notice. Anything above that is gravy, debriefing your sub, paying back loans before leaving, etc. The presence or lack of gravy may impact future games, but it falls into the same category as bringing past treachery into future games.

The new player has the onus, if a perm sub he should have a clean slate diplomacy wise. If there are outstanding NAPs or loans or favors, his actions will determine his diplomatic stance. If he doesn't pay back the loan, kill him or defame him in public. Just remember, the sub didn't make the agreements.

And since this is an opinion piece, I hate treachery. That being said, I don't consider dissolving a NAP and attacking after it runs out treachery (Velusion!), just part of the game. Breaking NAPs, breaking alliances without due notice, etc... bad.

[atul]

And now, for something completely different: ingame events!

Hm, I was wondering why Man had kept retreating all the time, but it seems he was just waiting for LA C'tis to join in the fray. Sorry Xietor, but I'm going to have to bash in some lizard heads also - they started it this time.

Anyway, nice to see at least some people do benefit from good relations with each other - wouldn't have expected to see Tomb Kings head to toe with air items. Gotta remember to trade more next time.

(Just a note to anyone worrying about the rise of Agartha in the graphs: that happens when your opposition just retreats all the time. Probably trying to prove a point of some kind with that.)

And remember: hostile talk out-of-character makes pandas sad.

[DrPraetorious]

Actually, I wasn't retreating that turn, I just misjudged where you were going http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[atul]

It seems I just have to wait until sunday to view your brand of SCs, then. Lots of Sleepers hanging around. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[jutetrea]

Folket (previous Ry'leh sub I believe) has supposedly agreed to take over LA TC. Once I hear back with confirmation I'll de-brief and pass along the password.

Anyone have any major problem with that?

[Velusion]

jutetrea said:

Folket (previous Ry'leh sub I believe) has supposedly agreed to take over LA TC. Once I hear back with confirmation I'll de-brief and pass along the password.

Anyone have any major problem with that?



Just so Evilhomer knows... I'm going to have my twin brother replace EA Oceania once he quits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.

Edit: I dont' have an objection, but I am curious if LA TC is actually going to be played as an independent power - or should we just consider him a permanent vassal of LA R'lyeh?

[Amhazair]

Velusion said:
Just so Evilhomer knows... I'm going to have my twin brother replace EA Oceania once he quits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.



Who's quitting? I'm quitting? Who says I'm quiting? I'm not quitting!

(Okey, okey, I admit it. I'm going on holliday for two weeks in september. But I fully intend to return!)

[Velusion]

Amhazair said:

Velusion said:
Just so Evilhomer knows... I'm going to have my twin brother replace EA Oceania once he quits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.



Who's quitting? I'm quitting? Who says I'm quiting? I'm not quitting!

(Okey, okey, I admit it. I'm going on holliday for two weeks in september. But I fully intend to return!)



My twin brother Delusion volunteers to sub for you while you are gone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Evilhomer]

Actually folket was the one who got me into dom3 - he is fully capable of playing TC without my guidance...

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
Actually folket was the one who got me into dom3 - he is fully capable of playing TC without my guidance...



Oh I know he is capable - the question is if he will play to win himself or if he will just help you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[jutetrea]

Well, decide quick. If there's a huge uproar I'll find someone else. Otherwise I'd like to pass it off as soon as I get confirmation.

[Velusion]

jutetrea said:


Well, decide quick. If there's a huge uproar I'll find someone else. Otherwise I'd like to pass it off as soon as I get confirmation.



I'm not objecting. Its completely your call who replaces you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm just asking what will be on people's mind for diplomacy purposes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[coobe]

Im taking over for Lanka. Im open for completely new diplomacy. Hope to hear from you soon !

[jutetrea]

Sounds good, passed my password along to Folket.

Been great fun, real life is just sucking up time now and I think I need a break from dominions.

Good luck!

My prediction was for LA Atlantis/EA Lanka to win it, but due to the recent changes I'm not sure.

As of now I'd probably vote for EA Oceania.

[Meglobob]

coobe said:
Im taking over for Lanka. Im open for completely new diplomacy. Hope to hear from you soon !



Ok, coobe wants to play Lanka. So my short tenure as leader of Lanka is over. Please forward all diplomacy to him.

I will forward K's instructions to coobe via PM.

Velusion, I will let you officially forward the password for Lanka if thats ok.

So alls well in the end. EA Lanka has a sub, LA Tien Chi has a sub and everyones happy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif...hopefully.

[Velusion]

Thanks Meglo. I appreciate you trying to help out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

So...Bob's free to play LA Atlantis now, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Meglobob]

Baalz said:
So...Bob's free to play LA Atlantis now, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Now, now Baalz. You will have Frank inside the ambulance rather than driving it with comments like that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Velusion]

Anyone with Construction 8: The Tome of High power is now available for forging! (cost 10A,10s).

Forge away!

[Xietor]

I dont like it, horror marks ya know.

[Szumo]

Tome of High Power does not horror mark.

[Xietor]

Well in another game my golem had that and a starshine cap
and a crystal coin. he got a horror mark. I am fairly certain the other 2 items do not horror mark as i have used them a ton and never had it occur.

[jutetrea]

I'd have to disagree here, I've had plenty of celestial masters horrormarked by using the tome. Its not frequent and I can have it on a mage for 20 turns before getting one, but I've had it mark on the 3rd turn as well.

If possible I always avoid using the robe or the tome with my pretender.

[Velusion]

It's a +1 Air +1 Astral for a base of 20 gems! You guys are fraidy cats if thats the reason you won't forge it...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Xietor]

If you think it is so good velusion-you buy it.

Bag of winds does more and you do not get a horror mark. tome is something id never use. I prefer not killing off my mages. better way to boost them in battle, namely giving them gems!

[jutetrea]

Oh, its definitely worth it, when possible I try to grab all the tomes possible - all good value.

I just don't put it on the guys I want to stick around longterm.

[Xietor]

I think the other tomes do not horror mark, so they are better value.

I guess since it has an s1 boost, ko decided to throw in the evil horror marking.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
If you think it is so good velusion-you buy it.




PSHHH! I wouldn't even be mentioning it so I could forge it myself - but I don't have construction 8.

[DrPraetorious]

Coobe may stale due to failure to get the password http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

But he is playing. I actually thought meglobob was going to take this turn anyway. Ah well.

[Meglobob]

DrPraetorious said:
Coobe may stale due to failure to get the password http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

But he is playing. I actually thought meglobob was going to take this turn anyway. Ah well.



I took a quick turn to avoid Lanka staling.

Has said in a previous post, I have left Velusion to send Coobe the password.

Perhaps Coobe should PM Velusion for the password?

[jutetrea]

In the same vein I threw a quick turn in for LA TC/folket, he has the password and a short de-brief.

[Folket]

Can someone turn off quickhost? I just played the turn but the game had hosted since all players had a turn uploaded.

[Velusion]

Sorry - didn't see the post about sending coobe the password... glad there was a turn put in.


Folket said:
Can someone turn off quickhost? I just played the turn but the game had hosted since all players had a turn uploaded.



The game rule is for quickhost to be on (it's just really rare that someone doesn't stale). I'm not sure why it needs to be changed since you can always do your turn offline.... It's not a big deal to me to disable it - but everyone would basically have to sign off on that rule change...

We will be going to 72 hours timer (with quickhost enabled) in 5 turns.

[Evilhomer]

Any plans to start another mega-game velusion ? This game has been a success, and now that the majority is dead and we are moving to 72 h qh another one might be started. (I sure would sign up)

[Velusion]

Yea I've been thinking about it. However, here are a lot more games running now (Mostly thanks to llama) than there were when Perp started...

[Xietor]

Why not finish this one before starting another? The fact is only half the races are eliminated or on AI.

I am presently in 3 mp games now, and my target is 2. And with the trouble finding permanent subs, I am not sure the interest is high in this game as it previously was.

LA Tien Chi had a hard time getting a perm sub, and even LAnka who had a strong position did not have many suitors.

[Xox]

I would like to see more games myself.

Sure lots of new games, but not a single game in a long, long time with network and over 6 players. Lot of people, like myself, don't like the small games and really prefer a network game.

The last network game to start was the Mods over Europe game and that is not really a regular game. Although it is a blast and I really recommend it to all who are thinking about joining when a new one comes up.

Getting subs is always difficult. That difficulty has nothing to do with the interest in playing a new game.

[Xietor]

well,

I would love to get in another Big Game, but it is my hope we can hold off at least for 1 more month. In that time, many more races will be gone from this game, and my Alpaca game will be over-for good or ill.

Next time I hope to get a better race than MA Ctis! In fact, I reserve my right to my favorite race right now-MA Pangaea. Nothing would be more satisfying than watching 200 capital only sacreds of some evil nation go snap, crackle, pop to the Gorgon!

[Gandalf Parker]

heehee. In another month the count on the nations will probably have gone up again. (new patch with new nations?)
And maybe even be able to include modded nations which would increase the count even farther.

[Xox]

Sounds great, just have to be patient I quess. New nations are big fun and playing with some of the modded nations in the next all nation game would be great.

I know some people are worried about balance but, if anything, I would say almost all the modded nations in Mods over europe are a bit underpowered compared to regular nations.

It would be great to see them in games with the regular powers to see how well they perform.

[DrPraetorious]

The new game could be called "Why do the nations rage so furiously together?".

So the absolute limit - as I understand it - is 80 nations? So -

1) Wait for the new patch to come out.
2) Find out how many mod nations we could potentially add to the mix.
3) Hold a poll to pick mod nations.
4) Do a little playtesting on the mod nations that win the poll, get them at least presentable.

Do another, bigger mod game. Preferably on a wrap-around map this time.

[Gandalf Parker]

The max map is 1500 provinces. 80 players into 1500 is 18 so its not even up to "large map" by the game standards (which is 20 provs per player). About the only way to get a wraparound of 1500 would be to use ParadoxHarbinger's mapgen which is kindof hit-or-miss. I guess I can start running random batches off of it and hope for something playable.

[Xietor]

personally, bigger is not always better.

Maybe give players more choices. offer 62 players a spot, and let them sign up for the race they want. If their is 62/80 races being played, that is still a huge game by anyone's standards.

And it keeps some poor sap from having to play ma ulm or some other race that is doomed not to see turn 20.

[Hadrian_II]

Is Frank Trollman now away or not?
I would like to know that, as there are some enclaves of LA Atlantis in my domain that i would not like for some sub to take over http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Tyrant]

Frank is still playing

[Hadrian_II]

ok, then i will wait.

[Folket]

btw, I was recruited to the game using some out of game diplomacy. It will not affect other games, and it will probably have little effect on how Then Chi is played.

[Evilhomer]

My orders in the previous turn was not processed - for anyone I had a trade deal with i can only apologise (items/gems etc will be sent this turn instead).

[Velusion]

Attention all with construction 8:

The Barrier is now available for forging!
Also a Sea Queen is available for summoning!

[Xietor]

Well,

It sounds as if we have a winner in the LA Ermor v LA Rlyeh fight.

[Hadrian_II]

It sounds like one SC was killed

[Xietor]

Post deleted by Xietor

[sum1lost]

It sounds like a water queen with the barrier was killed.

[atul]

It sounds like excellent propaganda stunt to make some unsuspecting player waste a truckload of water gems.

[Velusion]

atul said:
It sounds like excellent propaganda stunt to make some unsuspecting player waste a truckload of water gems.



Anyone can attempt to summon the queen EXCEPT for atul. He is not allowed.

[atul]

Ha, I'm not falling for that!

...too bad I already did waste 50 water gems at my domed province... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif At least Beckoning got through.

[Xietor]

I am a bit underwhelmed by my generous offer to buy nature gems. Why not help out a little guy being ground under by the big boys? Sell me some nature gems so i can fight back!

[atul]

Heh, I would sell if I didn't need them all myself trying to fight big bad boys. But, should this trend keep up I can stop forging and just use loot for all my equipment needs. :>

[Gandalf Parker]

This late in the game there are too many expert MicroManagers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Now a decent blitz expert who just hates figuring out how to use all of the gem income they have from their expansion would be real handy in a deal like that but I think they have all been weeded out

[Salamander8]

Apologies for the stale turn. I'm visiting friends in Michigan and their internet was out till just a couple minutes ago so I'm catching up on my 2 MP games right now.

[Arameyan]

Sorry for the stale turn.
I'm outside for a 3 days holiday and a communication error occured with my sub.

As I'm in war I fear that this stale turn will hurt badly... Cant wait until this evening to see it.

[atul]

I'm sorry (as in, feel bad to benefit from someone staling) to say it probably did hurt you quite bad.

13 of your commanders dead, none of mine. 145 of your troops, 27 of mine.

That +7 enc due to being cold-blooded in permafrosted province really isn't pretty.

[Arameyan]

Yeah, it hurted bad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But it's my fault: the army commander shouldn't leave command in the heat (or cold) of battle.

I dont know what is worse: to lose so many commanders without doing much damage or to give you so many thug items by losing my thugs...

It's the first time I see someone using cold against my army of lizards. Pretty scary.

[solo]

The dinosaurs did not survive an ice age for similar reasons. Reptiles need a rock warmed up by the sun to sit on before being able to move around much.

[atul]

Arameyan said:
I dont know what is worse: to lose so many commanders without doing much damage or to give you so many thug items by losing my thugs...

I can answer that one for you: the former. As items are lost on enslaved commanders, I actually didn't get that many items out of that fight. Just enough to outfit one of those Tomb Kings of yours once I Gift of Reason him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
It's the first time I see someone using cold against my army of lizards. Pretty scary.

Surprisingly effective. I've got to do this more often. But it's also nice to know that Mistform protects from the first hit of Banefire. Must say I was expecting far greater losses.

[Velusion]

Late notice:

But if anyone has construction 8 the following should be available:

Green Eye
Scepter of Dark Regency!
Boots of the Planes

[Xietor]

I think people can see when artifacts are available-unlike elemental royalty.

In the future just pm me and dispense with the public notifications!

[Velusion]

Post deleted by Velusion

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
I think people can see when artifacts are available-unlike elemental royalty.



Yea but you have to shuffle your boosters all around usually and is a pain in the ***. I'm just trying to be nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If knew LA R'lyeh was going to throw the kitchen sink of artifacts/SCs at me I wouldn't have stopped at Construction 6!!

OF course he still kicking my *** and has removed me pretty much completely from the water. You guys should really flatter me with compliments or something... here I am being being the world's meat (bone?) shield against the LA R'lyeh monstrosity. His army is now about the same size as MINE (thanks to Undead Mastry/Master Enslave) and since he has researched everything he is throwing all his mages into combat!

Once I fall you guys are sooooo F#$$%@#ed!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

BTW:
Nethgul is now available to forge!

[Evilhomer]

SO much false propagada in one post...

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
SO much false propagada in one post...



HAH! So point out the falsehoods!

I'd love to discuss on the forum here with you because I'm certain I can win this sort of argument. So go on...let's get into details.

How are you *not* kicking my ***? The only reason I've been stable on the province graph is because I've been helping Machaka against LA TC. Otherwise you've taken... what... 8 of my provinces these last 5 turns and wiped out LA Atlantis from the south?

*grins* but go on ... defend yourself from the facts... I'm all rotting ears...

[Evilhomer]

1. You kicked me out from the south to begin with, i.e you started this. Im just getting back lands that never belonged to you to begin with. And you continue to send armies into the water - more my element don't you agree ? It's almost funny, you take lands and when the rightful owners (Rlyeh) take it back - you cry theft!

2. Frank (LA atlantis) hasn't sent anything serious anyway.

3. In my view im the saviour (meat shield if you prefer) from the undead hordes about to devour us all, LA TC being his current victim. (He is by the way weakend a bit so this would be a good time to strike!).

4. Im not close to reaching the end of my research - the graphs are not working, maybe due to the hard research setting.

5. LA ermor is massing tartarians - beware and strike while you can ! with his death gem income he will have hundreds equiped if we wait since he is allied with mr.forge.


I could go on....

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
1. You kicked me out from the south to begin with, i.e you started this. Im just getting back lands that never belonged to you to begin with. And you continue to send armies into the water - more my element don't you agree ? It's almost funny, you take lands and when the rightful owners (Rlyeh) take it back - you cry theft!




Somebody had to do something about you. I'm proud I actually stood up to you! Who is crying?


Evilhomer said:
2. Frank (LA atlantis) hasn't sent anything serious anyway.




So you were able to kick is *** *real* good? Thanks for making us all feel better!


Evilhomer said:
3. In my view im the saviour (meat shield if you prefer) from the undead hordes about to devour us all, LA TC being his current victim. (He is by the way weakend a bit so this would be a good time to strike!).




Well yes, LA TC (powered by your best friend Folket), is doing a good job in hurting me and slowing me down. It's a pity I had to expend resources helping Machaka - but I value the agreements I have.


Evilhomer said:
4. Im not close to reaching the end of my research - the graphs are not working, maybe due to the hard research setting.




Oh that's comforting. That's like *almost* lapping everyone on the racetrack.


Evilhomer said:
5. LA ermor is massing tartarians - beware and strike while you can ! with his death gem income he will have hundreds equiped if we wait since he is allied with mr.forge.




Massing hmm? you mean the THREE that are going right to your front?

Also - as far as being "allied" with MR forge, I haven't received a single item from LA Atlantis nor are we allied.


Evilhomer said:
I could go on....



Please do. You seem to like talking about everything but the fact that you are effectively crushing me.

Why just ask around the IRC channel. LA R'lyeh and EA Oceania are the odds favorite to win. Ask if they think LA Ermor is going to win and you hear crickets chirping. That's because LA Ermor has way too many vulnerabilities. Any decent player can come up with strats to use against LA Ermor. LA R'lyeh though... *chuckles* what is anyone going to do against a massive LA R'lyeh?

Oh wait... thats were that "savior" title kicks in eh?

[Evilhomer]

I think it all boils down to you attacking me and now you are upset because im pushing you back. I have no real chance to destroy you - and you know it. We are in fact pretty equal in gems, lands, armies etc.


That's because LA Ermor has way too many vulnerabilities. Any decent player can come up with strats to use against LA Ermor. LA R'lyeh though... *chuckles* what is anyone going to do against a massive LA R'lyeh?



Yeah we all know LA ermor is so very weak - is that why its the number one winning nation among LA nations (shared with LA marignon) in the victory thread ? Also you don't seem to want to aknowledge the fact that you have a large powerful alliance backing you up (those I know are LA miclan, MA ermor and Manchaka, but im guessing there are many more).

And as to crushing you - its more of an temporary trend. Go back 5-10 turns and you and atlantis was pushing me back rather fast.

[Baalz]

Well, FWIW LA R'yleh is apparently doing well enough that he's comfortable starting war on another new front. Anyone who wants to support the war against them without helping LA Ermor should send aid to the nation of LA Mictlan, for the fight is joined in our heartland.

[Evilhomer]

Well, you are closly allied with LA ermor, so it's the same old war I'm afraid, just different tactics.

[Xietor]

I will be interested to see who attacks MA Tien Chi, ma rlyeh, or ma pythium. Those nations are not part of any big alliance and whoever attacks them will be the true menace to the world.

[Baalz]

Cool, apparently damn near everyone is in bed with the undead, so all my allies by inference send aid soon!

[Folket]

Well, you did join in the war against LA Then Chi. Perhaps you should choose your enemies more carefully.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
I will be interested to see who attacks MA Tien Chi, ma rlyeh, or ma pythium. Those nations are not part of any big alliance and whoever attacks them will be the true menace to the world.



*shrugs*

By the time EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh get around to you they will be so big they will fart in your general direction and bring your nation tumbling down... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Hadrian_II]

Velusion said:
By the time EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh get around to you they will be so big they will fart in your general direction and bring your nation tumbling down... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



I think living in the miasma made C'tis pretty resistant to bad vapours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Xietor]

Yes, MA Ctis is a small nation, but we are a proud one. Farting on us would be akin to a declaration of war!

[Amhazair]

I'll just quickly let the several people who wrote me a message deserving of a serious reply in the last 2, 3 days, that I received them all fine, and I do intend to answer you all fully. Unfortunately I'm very busy at work right now, having to finish loads of stuff before I take my vacation, and this, coupled to the fact that I'm seriously in need of that vacation, leaves me with little energy to do all the stuff I should when I'm back home. (Or, alternatively, you could say I'm a no-good layabout who's too damn lazy to move his arse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) In any case, I should get home a bit earlier tomorrow, so I hope to give you all the answers you deserve.

P.S. EA Oceania is a nation having reached the pinacle of civilisation, our culture is admired throughout the world, and our social conduct is above reproach. In the unlikely event any of our dignitaries would sink so low as to actually unleash a fart, they would definitely camouflage it to the best of their ability, and certainly NOT send it in the direction of MA C'tis, or any other vaguely intelligent creature.

[Velusion]

The turn schedule has been adjusted to 72 hours as discussed in previous posts. Forgot to do it yesterday when it hosted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Frank (LA Atlantis) is going to Europe for at least a week and probably won't be in any position to turn in his turns. When he gets back, he's driving it turns out every day (it's for some reason an even more intense schedule than normal), so he might not be able to resume.

[Velusion]

Since he has staled twice if I don't find a replacement for LA Atlantis in 48 hours I shall have someone put him on AI.

[Velusion]

I've been told through a number of channels that EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh are basically allied. EA Oceania refuses to respond to my inquires so I can only assume the reports are true.

If anyone cares at this point or not I'm not sure, but those two powers combined are pretty much unstoppable.

[Hadrian_II]

Ermor is now controlling the Forge of the Ancients, that makes the evil empire not weak either.

Also i heard that Ermor is having a big group of vassals.

[Evilhomer]

I've been told through a number of channels that EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh are basically allied. EA Oceania refuses to respond to my inquires so I can only assume the reports are true.




Even more false propaganda...

The truth is that LA ermor has countless nation allied to him, like LA miclan and mr.forge (LA pangea). Also MA pangea, Manchaka and probably a bunch more.

[Hadrian_II]

Evilhomer said:
The truth is that LA ermor has countless nation allied to him, like LA miclan and mr.forge (LA pangea). Also MA pangea, Manchaka and probably a bunch more.



MA Pangaea objects to this rude lie, and if R'lyeh does not apologise we would be very unhappy (some satyrs will even consider this a decleration of war). But i have heard that EA Pangea is on friendly terms with Ermor.

[Xietor]

1. Velusion-just because someone does not respond to pm's does not mean anything. They may just not like you. but I confess I think EA Oceania is tied to LA Atlantis-but i have no proof. Based on circumstantial evidence.

2. MA Pangaea is not tied to any power, much less Ermor. Hadrian has much better taste. The other 2 are definitely tied to Ermor.

3. Since Edi has said that casting battlefield enchantments and retreating the mage who cast the spell/artifact is a major bug(confirmed by Kristopher), I do not expect to see that tactic used anymore.

4. I would like to remind players that capturing units that have a command to attack mages and copying that script to other units as also a major exploit.

Hopefully Velusion will set players using these tactic to AI in the future. It clearly stated on the rules that using bugs listed on Edi's list are an exploit-and that is now on his list.

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:

I've been told through a number of channels that EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh are basically allied. EA Oceania refuses to respond to my inquires so I can only assume the reports are true.




Even more false propaganda...

The truth is that LA ermor has countless nation allied to him, like LA miclan and mr.forge (LA pangea). Also MA pangea, Manchaka and probably a bunch more.



*rolls eyes* Or perhaps they are just scared of LA R'lyeh and are actually looking to band together?

For the rest of the game, and even after I am eliminated I'm going to be posting here with one line as EA Oceania and LA R'lyeh crush everyone...

"Told you so!" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
I think EA Oceania is tied to LA Atlantis-but i have no proof. Based on circumstantial evidence.



EA Oceania is attacking anything weak to gobble up provinces - Including LA Atlantis.

<< Goes to practice saying "I told you so"

[Evilhomer]

1. EA Oceania might be crushing all - I know I won't.

2. I might have confused one Pangea with another, if so I apologise.



Since Edi has said that casting battlefield enchantments and retreating the mage who cast the spell/artifact is a major bug(confirmed by Kristopher), I do not expect to see that tactic used anymore.



3. I really would like to hear Velusions thoughts on this. He used this tactic against me in the previous turn (retreating a astral tempest mage). Not that I'm complaining I used it myself to destroy one of miclans armies. I just want an answer if this is an allowed tactic or not (I would never have built the horror harmonica if its not, that thing is made for this type of abuse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif)

[Baalz]

Air queen and sun slayer are available if anyone is interested.

[Evilhomer]

One arch devil is available (f3s3 is the magic paths)

[Xietor]

I am taking the aq. Be warned.

I know EA oceania had 2 aq's and LA Ryleh 1. If I waste 50 gems on an aq and do not get it,when i find out who took the 3rd one, you can expect some retribution.

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
1. EA Oceania might be crushing all - I know I won't.

2. I might have confused one Pangea with another, if so I apologise.



Since Edi has said that casting battlefield enchantments and retreating the mage who cast the spell/artifact is a major bug(confirmed by Kristopher), I do not expect to see that tactic used anymore.



3. I really would like to hear Velusions thoughts on this. He used this tactic against me in the previous turn (retreating a astral tempest mage). Not that I'm complaining I used it myself to destroy one of miclans armies. I just want an answer if this is an allowed tactic or not (I would never have built the horror harmonica if its not, that thing is made for this type of abuse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif)



Is it actually on Edi's list to be fixed? If not then it's fair game.

I've always thought it was a fundamental part of the game - never knew it was considered a "bug".

[Xietor]

EDI:

The battlefield enchantments staying up after the caster retreats is a red-flagged issue that's been on the shortlist for quite a while. I'll add Mists of Deception as a spell bug.

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Xietor
Captain


Reged: 02/19/07
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Re: Mists of Deception -- exploit?? [Re: Edi]
#548352 - 09/07/07 01:57 PM
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It also applies to artifacts edi.

In the Big Game the same race that used the wrathful skies retreat on me, has also used this tactic:

mage has forbidden light. The solar brilliance stays up the entire battle, even though the mage that has it casts returning and is gone after one round. A blind pretender(monolith) or chaff on battlefield, and the good army is blinded before it kills off the chaff.

If the forbidden light leaves the battle, solar brilliance should also leave.

BTW, I am not calling the users of these tactics exploiters. What I am saying is the result should not obtain.

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Edited by Xietor (09/08/07 04:35 PM)

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EdiModerator
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Re: Mists of Deception -- exploit?? [Re: Xietor]
#548377 - 09/07/07 04:17 PM
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It's the same issue.

Whether an enchantment is autocast by an artifact (Heat from Hell (Unquenched Sword), Solar Brilliance (Forbidden Light), Will of the Fates (Aurgelmer's Sword) or a regular item (Banner of the Northern Star) or a mage or the autocast being the property of a certain monster (Darkness for Mandaha etc), this bug tends to manifest the same way, i.e. enchantment stays in effect even if source leaves battlefield.

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K
Corporal


Reged: 02/07/07
Posts: 107

Re: Mists of Deception -- exploit?? [Re: Edi]
#548542 - 09/08/07 01:34 PM
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I don't think this is a bug, but a feature.

At that level of play, if all spells dropped when the caster left then you'd rarely see a use for battlefield enchantments like this. This level of play is so deadly that most battlefield spells rarely are as effective as just having one mage casting blasting spells, so nerfing them further would be to nerf them out of play.

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Endoperez
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Re: Mists of Deception -- exploit?? [Re: K]
#548546 - 09/08/07 01:55 PM
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It's only a question of keeping a mage alive. There's no way to target the one mage who cast a battlefield spell, so it wouldn't be any more dangerous than having that mage cast blasting spells. Their effects end if a mage dies, but if he doesn't, they can be used to great effect, while blast spells provide quick results, but usually affect much fewer enemies at a time.

--------------------
Once, I tried to come up with a name that meant nothing. In Greek, Endo means "in, inside of" (endo >< exo), and in Latin, pereas means "you die" (2 sg. of pereo: to die, to be destroyed).
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Re: Mists of Deception -- exploit?? [Re: K]
#548557 - 09/08/07 03:51 PM
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Quote:
K said:
I don't think this is a bug, but a feature.

At that level of play, if all spells dropped when the caster left then you'd rarely see a use for battlefield enchantments like this. This level of play is so deadly that most battlefield spells rarely are as effective as just having one mage casting blasting spells, so nerfing them further would be to nerf them out of play.


It just so happens that we have Kristoffer on record being surprised that battlefield enchantments did not end when the caster left the battle and saying this should not happen, so it's a confirmed major bug.

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[Xietor]

Edi says it is a red flagged bug. And is on a short list to be fixed. And that KO has confirmed it is a bug.

Given these statements, I consider their future use to be exploits.

[Velusion]

Ahhh I see it on the list.

I'm not sure how this can be enforced though... I mean how can you be sure when someone ment to use this or if the unit just routed naturally?

And what if you intended the enchantment to only last a few turns? You don't have any way to control it.

[Xietor]

well when the guy with forbidden light casts ritual of returning on the 1st turn, or the mages that retreat the turn after casting wrathful skies-it is fairly obvious.

Trust me, I know when I see it. You can also have gandalf look at their turn files if the issue is raised and they try and deny it.

Hopefully most players are honest and will not lie about their battle set ups.

[Folket]

To answer Evilhomer. To spam horror and then retreat is fair game since summons are supposed to exist till slain.

But if I remember correctly the horror harmonica autocasts wailing winds in battle. I think as long as you do not sscript to abuse wailing winds after retreating I do not think there is a problem.

[Velusion]

*shudders at the thought of trying to enforce this*

[Evilhomer]

So basically is the mist of deception + battle field damage expoit allowed in this game or not ? To me this tactic sounds very lame and I don't think it should be allowed.

Edit: I'm not against the retreat tactic at all (just in combo with mists of deception).

[Velusion]

It just sort of pisses me off that I've had the "solar brilliance" + retreat used on me so many times, and then all of a sudden now that I can really use it for astral tempest/flamestorm it's brought up.

Whatever though, I'm about to go AI.

[Evilhomer]

Whatever though, I'm about to go AI.



Why? Your position is solid.

[Xietor]

I bring it up now because I just became aware of it when i read edi's statement on the mists of deception thread.

It has been used on me the entire game as well. So it is not something that impacts you alone. Had I known it was a major bug earlier in the game, I certainly would have raised the issue earlier as it would have saved me from countless losses.

You can still use the exact same tactic-you just need to sacrifice a single mage to achieve the result. What is so bad about that?

[Velusion]

For clarification:

The Mists of Deception/retreat problem will be considered an exploit. Don't script your caster of Mists of Deception to ever retreat or you risk being put on AI.

As far as this applying to all other battle enchantments we'll just take it on a case by case basis. I'll say that as long as you leave your caster in in the battle for 5 rounds it is OK to retreat after that point. If there is a pattern of someone obviously casting battle field wild enchantments on the first turn then immediately running away then I'll address that when the time comes. As long as you respect the compromise 5-round rule (excepting MoD) you shouldn't have to worry about it.

[Baalz]

Sounds quite reasonable

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:


Whatever though, I'm about to go AI.



Why? Your position is solid.



Heh - no gem producing items.

I'm certain EA Oceania has 70-100+ clams at this point (or at least he should) and I'm betting you have at least 60? Probably more (if history and your posts on clamming threads are to be taken under consideration).

Honestly it wasn't until pretty recently that I found indy mages capable of forge gem producing items. I *should* have empowered a couple casters up much earlier.

Also that Undead Mastery super-army you have is quite a tough nut to crack. I have a feeling I'm going to have to spend much more resources in taking it down than you expended in putting it up. It certainly isn't unkillable, but it is as close to that as possible (for me) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Besides the big gem hit from losing my capital I loose the functionality of a number of important spells like ritual of returning.

Finally, the diplomatic situation is the biggest problem. Taking it offensively to you or EA Oceania is a non-starter for most land nations. Maybe if all of the land nations focused on you we could slowly beat you back but that sort of coordination is unrealistic and even if it were possible the other large water nation (EA Oceania) would simply benefit making their nation much, much stronger in the length of time it took us to beat down the other.

All that said, It isn't hopeless I know. Just bleak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I'll stick it out for awhile... we'll see.

[Xietor]

And so passes the last vestiges of the once great empire of LA Man. Lizard warriors have overrun his last castle, and the standard of MA Ctis now flies over his empire.

Rejecting MA Ctis generous offer of peace, LA Man pursued an unjust war, siding with evil. Now the Lizards have raised their standard over his last castle. LA Man's defeat is complete, and history will not reflect kindly on his ruined civilization.

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
And so passes the last vestiges of the once great empire of LA Man. Lizard warriors have overrun his last castle, and the standard of MA Ctis now flies over his empire.



The Empire of LA Man was annhillated because the people of LA Man wanted to join Pangaea, so pangean forces freed LA Man. There where some lizard operations in the western swamps of the country, but the capital and farmlands near to it are now flying the colours of MA Pangaea.

[Jazzepi]

I'm subbing for Lingchih in this game. All diplomacy to Lingchih - *LA Pangaea* should be directed to me. I use the forums, and sometimes e-mail. Don't expect much wheeling and dealing, I'm just a temporary sub, but if you want to surrender your empire to LA Pangea out of fear of it's awesome new sub, feel free to.

Oh, and Dr. Praetorious don't mind the capital targeting unrest spells. They're completely not my idea 0:)

Jazzepi

[atul]

Hey! That's MY future property you're about to destroy!

...although some outside interference might be welcome, just to balance the mystery nation that's been casting the Evo9 army destroying fire spell on my troops and supplying Man with stuff like Unquenched Sword.

In other news, Midgård was recently liberated. It has been resieged by the previous occupants, although it would seem Man is just passing by as they seem to be unable to even scratch the wall after some extremely murdering winter they had to weather.

[Xietor]

MA Pangaea does get credit. But the annals duly noted you aided the Lizards AFTER they had dealt crushing blows to LA Atlantis, MA Oceania, and LA Man. More credit by Croaker(MA Ctis historian)would be given had you aided the Lizards before it crushed LA Atlantis. MA Oceania, and LA Man's invading armies.

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
More credit by Croaker(MA Ctis historian)would be given had you aided the Lizards before it crushed LA Atlantis. MA Oceania, and LA Man's invading armies.



MA Pangaea thinks that MA Oceania is a nation of nice sympathethic people, and we dont attack nice sympathetic peaple. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif (even if they attack our swampy friends)

[Velusion]

Is this the second turn Lanka has missed? If so I'll have him set to AI.

[Evilhomer]

I belive several people in the past offered to take over lanka. Now that trollman is gone they should be allowed to enter the game. I prefer if we don't set large powerful nation into AI:s so easily.

[Velusion]

If someone has a vested interest in making sure Lanka is played I invite them to create a "looking for replacement" thread. Otherwise I'm putting him on AI before the next host.

[Xietor]

I asked this privately, but where can the players view staling data? I think all players have an interest in who stales each turn, not just the game admin.

[jutetrea]

Right on the status page:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=perpetuality

[Velusion]

As far as stales beyond the last turn I can only reference the turn history since the game was last reset by looking on the sever manually. There is no way for users to see the stale history beyond the last turn.

[Xietor]

is there a record of how many stales? Or just the most recent turn stales?

I would also like at least a 12 hour notification if a player is going to gi AI.

Obviously the AI is not going to honor NAP's and it dramatically changes how one plays vis a vis that race.

For instance I saw LA Atlantis on AI took several MA Oceania provinces its 1st turn on ai. Did MA Oceania have any notice of this change in leadership?

Since they were allies the entire game I doubt their mutual borders were guarded.

[jutetrea]

I can take over Lanka temporarily until a perm sub is found.

I don't know anything on that side of the map, so would be playing as a neutral growth nation initially unless provoked.

All past alliances and grudges would need to be renewed although I would hope that those with existing NAPs would at least give moderate acclimation time before jumping in. If there has been some opportunistic poaching so be it, further such activity will be considered provocation.

If there is no major outcry I will request the pw from Coobe, letting him know I would take over due to the stales.

[Velusion]

Only the most recent stales. Technically I could go through all the backups and document all the stales, but I'm not.

I always give people notice on the thread before nations get placed on AI (I did for LA Atlantis).

[Xietor]

Ok thanks Velusion.

LLamabeast has his site set up so it automatically lists the stales of every player. It may or may not be an easy thing to implement, so you may want to chat with him if interested.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually the game puts out a tiny file called stats (not sure why its called that) which does nothing except list the nations and say if they did their turn, staled, or are computer.

[Xietor]

well,

I am going to act as if Lanka is going on AI for my next turn. If a sub is found let me know.

The once great LA Atlantis Alliance has crumbled.

I do not see Lanka's position as remotely as good as when K left. They have lost a capital, another castle, their pretender, their alliance, and numerous provinces.

[Evilhomer]

I belive jutitrea offered to take over lanka.

[jutetrea]

Yes and got the password last night. Will be looking over the position today and submitting a turn.

[Xietor]

MA Ctis is a small nation on the nw corner of the world. Beset by enemies, and clinging to survival by a thread.

We do have a decent gold income, however. Our military advisers have informed us that our very survival depends on getting the chalice for 4-5 turns max.

If the nation presently holding the chalice would be willing to rent it-for gold or gems-please contact MA Ctis and we will happily make it worth your while.

[DrPraetorious]

Ouch!

I expected to lose that battle - but I had hoped to cause some casualties.

It is now clear that I never stood a chance against MA Agartha - he has me beat in army strength, in army composition, in magic diversity. I'm outclassed in essentially every field.

If anyone else wishes to attack him - I doubt this will be enough to save my alliance, but you could weaken him, which would be a good idea because he is viciously strong.

[Arameyan]

I agree with DrPraetorious,

I cant damage MA Agartha either, even with hordes of bane fire casters, nicely equipped tomb kings, etc.

Once he'll conquer MA Man and LA Ctis, he'll rule almost all of the Northeast island.

[Xietor]

The issue of importance is me borrowing the Chalice! Who owns what on the Eastern Continent does not really concern the 90 percent of the remaining players that occupy the Western Continent.

MA Agartha is hardly a power. Fear the Umbrals?

[Hadrian_II]

Xietor said:
The issue of importance is me borrowing the Chalice!




So much feebleminded tartarians?

[Amhazair]

I'm leaving on a holliday tomorrow morning, Meglobob has kindly agreed to sub for me till I'm back (which should be the end of the month) Any diplomacy and or trade proposals with EA Oceania should be directed to him in this time.

Enjoy the game during my abscence.

[Xietor]

feebleminded tartarains?

yes. Why else would M Ctis need a chalice? And how else can poor MA Ctis survive in a hostile world? Lizards?

[Xietor]

"I'm leaving on a holiday tomorrow morning, Meglobob has kindly agreed to sub for me till I'm back (which should be the end of the month) Any diplomacy and or trade proposals with EA Oceania should be directed to him in this time."

Melobob contact me if you have a Chalice! You too hadrian. Who is holding out on me? I save the World from LA Atlantis and I can't even rent the Chalice for a few turns?

[iceboy]

Maybe this has been asked before but could you guys post a screenshot of what the map looks like now?

[Evilhomer]

None knows - it's a computer that has the eyes of god at the moment.

[Stelteck]

Ha ha it may be a funny AI that win the game ^^

Stelteck of abysia.

[Xietor]

If LA Ryleh, LA Ermor, and EA Oceania all posted screen shots of their lands, you would see most of the world!

[atul]

...

Wow.

It seems MA Agartha has managed to strike some decent fear and awe to its current opponents. But on the other hand, nothing says "your mages are dead" like three Earthquakes on the opening round.

Anyway, despite the pessimistic views of my adversaries, the war's hardly over. My nation of relatively harmless cave people isn't the sleeping giant anyone should worry about, although I liked the "viciously strong" part. I take that as a compliment, thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

And really, massed banefire is nasty. Lodvathu has degreed massed banefire an abomination, strict insult upon anything righteous. Eeeevil banefire, requiring expensive special counter methods. :/

[solo]

Stelteck said:
Ha ha it may be a funny AI that win the game ^^

Stelteck of abysia.



Unlikely, but not an impossibility. What's to stop one of the blundering AI from casting something that is actually useful for themselves, such as Arcane Nexus?

[Hadrian_II]

solo said:

Stelteck said:
Ha ha it may be a funny AI that win the game ^^

Stelteck of abysia.



Unlikely, but not an impossibility. What's to stop one of the blundering AI from casting something that is actually useful for themselves, such as Arcane Nexus?



Nothing, but the AI wont be able to use the gems she will get from it.

Also the AI cant build SCs, tends to wear itself off on strongpoints, and brings alwais far to less leaders with its armies (--> with earth attacks, mindhunts etc you can easily stop an advancing AI). As an adition to this, the AIs armies are just random.

The winnings of Atlantis are just from the fact, that it got set to AI very quickly and then backstabbed all his neighbours at once. I think from the next turn on Atlantis will begin to loose 8 provinces per turn to MA Oceania, EA Oceania, EA Pangea and MA Pangea.

[Evilhomer]

Having a strong nation set to AI really changes game balance. I belive as Hadrian that it will be crushed in the near future.

[Velusion]

Arcane Nexus has been completely modded out of the game. The AI couldn't cast it even if it wanted to.

[Evilhomer]

Game crashes as soon as I upload my turn - anyone else having these difficulties ?

edit: never mind, worked on the 4th atempt.