Adamant Mod Discussion Thread

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[QB] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Note that it is Deeply Religious, not Religious. I see nothing wrong with a race that is not Deeply Religious being able to make temples. They are not at all like Shrines, just happiness facilities. Religion played a more prominent role in the medieval ages of Europe than it does today in the US, and that is where the Magic races are sort of set. At least, the historical aspects.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Makes sense

Frigates were massive ships in the Age of Sail, unlike the modern usage of frigate. As the magic races are set around there somewhere, it made sense to use Frigate (as well as a lot of other medieval and later sail ships). I don't think it will be too confusing, but if it ends up confusing people, I have no idea what else to call the ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, guess they were, since in the Age of Sail they were only at level 2 of Ship Construction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously though, want other archaic sounding names? How about trireme? Are triremes big ships? (Are they even military ships or are they merchantmen? Why are they called merchantMEN when ships are referred to as "she", anyway?) Hmm, I'm not too good on marine history

Yeah there is. It is available to Physical races, between the Escort and Light Frigate in size and tech req.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Must have missed it... kinda odd by the way to have some hulls saying "defense bonus from small size, maintenance penalty from large size" - I know size is relative, but it is a bit weird http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I wasn't quite sure what to put in them, and I have loaned my Psionics Handbook (D&D) to a friend, so can't really fill them all up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So you DO play D&D! And you try to seem like you're above that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

It makes it a little more likely that they will be selected to be damaged when the ship is hit, as most internals have 10 hit points. They have 11, and so are more likely to be hit than if they had only 10.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm, how devious... give them just enough hitpoints so they're hit more often, but not enough to really make a difference when it comes to being destroyed... Maybe Aaron was up to something when he gave engines 20 hitpoints; I always thought he just figured they were too vulnerable so he beefed them up, but maybe he was making them easier to hit...

How about if the different crew quarters levels provided maintenance bonuses and penalties? You know, you're more likely to take care of the ship when you're taken care of yourself <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm... what bonuses would you suggest?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, since you seemed to go with the idea that only the luxury crew quarters is without penalties (as opposed to the standard being +0 combat, the luxury being +x, and the basic being -x), how about a 2% maintenance penalty for the standard quarters and a 4% for the basic? Nothing big or anything... well at least if you don't have any stellar manipulation ships!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How can the Religious Talisman be placed on satellites or drones?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It can't at present. If only we could just make our own list of vehicle sizes allowed and such. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I wasn't so clear with that question; what I meant is that satellites and drones are in the allowable vehicle types, when it really only makes sense for ships, bases, and weapons platforms. (How are you supposed to have fanatical priests doing their thing on an unmanned vehicle? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) The War and Death talismans only go on ships and bases... if it's an issue of there's no Ship\Base\WeapPlat designator, you could have 2 copies of the Talisman, one for ships\bases and the other for WP's; maybe make the WP one bulkier/more expensive since it has the power to affect an entire planet full of weapon platforms, not just one like the ship Version can...

They do have weaker armor. Their armors have 10% fewer hit points than equivalent levels of Physical race armor. You think I should make them even weaker?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, I guess I didn't notice; I thought they were the same. Still, it seems kinda funny for them to even be in the same ballpark... wooden ships vs. what's the basic Physical armor? ROFL! Monitor vs. Merrimack anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Of course, then magical shields would have to be MUCH more powerful to balance magic races out...

[quote]They don't get built in cloaks. Look closely: the number of abilities is set to 0, so they have no built in abilities in-game. I just did not want to delete the ability lines in case I later decided to give them built-in cloaking again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And the game actually loads those files, it doesn't choke on the extra lines?!

True. They were useful before I added boarding defense to a lot of comps to make them susceptible to Mental Shredders and such. I will remove the Neutron Cannon (BP).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Might as well remove the (SS) designation as well, since it does affect crew quarters and boarding parties...

[Fyron]

Yeah, guess they were, since in the Age of Sail they were only at level 2 of Ship Construction ;) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, if we were doing Age of Sail, the Frigate name would be used for a ship of about Ship Construction 8... it is not at all the same as the stock SE4 Frigate.

Seriously though, want other archaic sounding names? How about trireme? Are triremes big ships? (Are they even military ships or are they merchantmen? Why are they called merchantMEN when ships are referred to as "she", anyway?) Hmm, I'm not too good on marine history<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Triremes were pretty much all warships. They were also smaller than most of the ships I have used, and oar-driven. All of the ships I used were capable of being driven by sails (and were), even Galleys.

Must have missed it... kinda odd by the way to have some hulls saying "defense bonus from small size, maintenance penalty from large size" - I know size is relative, but it is a bit weird ;) <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those would be typoes. :D

So you DO play D&D! And you try to seem like you're above that! :p <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have said countless times that D&D is the primary inspiration of the Magic races... :P

Well, since you seemed to go with the idea that only the luxury crew quarters is without penalties (as opposed to the standard being +0 combat, the luxury being +x, and the basic being -x), how about a 2% maintenance penalty for the standard quarters and a 4% for the basic? Nothing big or anything... well at least if you don't have any stellar manipulation ships!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That was to prevent someone from adding just one Luxurious CQ and the rest Standard CQ to get the bonus, but without giving up all the space. ;)

Sorry, I wasn't so clear with that question; what I meant is that satellites and drones are in the allowable vehicle types, when it really only makes sense for ships, bases, and weapons platforms. (How are you supposed to have fanatical priests doing their thing on an unmanned vehicle? ;) ) The War and Death talismans only go on ships and bases... if it's an issue of there's no Ship\Base\WeapPlat designator, you could have 2 copies of the Talisman, one for ships\bases and the other for WP's; maybe make the WP one bulkier/more expensive since it has the power to affect an entire planet full of weapon platforms, not just one like the ship Version can...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh... the sats could be blessed or something. :D

Oh, I guess I didn't notice; I thought they were the same. Still, it seems kinda funny for them to even be in the same ballpark... wooden ships vs. what's the basic Physical armor? ROFL! Monitor vs. Merrimack anyone? :D Of course, then magical shields would have to be MUCH more powerful to balance magic races out...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The armor is magically enchanted, of course.

And the game actually loads those files, it doesn't choke on the extra lines?!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They are not extra lines, they are expected lines. So no, it does not choke.

Might as well remove the (SS) designation as well, since it does affect crew quarters and boarding parties...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, I did that already. ;)

More Sneak Peak Goodness

Version 0.12.02:
1. Added - Added Star - Unstable and Palace ability description tag to the following weapons mentioning that their armor skipping ability does not trigger the extra shields from damage ability of leaky shields: Null - Space Projector, Temporal Shifter, Shard Cannon, Graviton Hellbore.
2. Fixed - Tower of Protection technology is now in Racial Area 60.
3. Fixed - Phased - Shield Generators now use the correct picture instead of the normal Shield Generator picture.
4. Added - Advanced Storage Techniques Version of the Drone Launcher.
5. Fixed - Contagion tech area is now in Racial Area 60.
6. Fixed - Invisibility tech area is now in Racial Area 60.
7. Fixed - Renamed Radioactive Resource Warehouse to Mana Resource Warehouse.
8. Changed - Hunter-Killer Drones are now in Family 2026 instead of 2025.
9. Fixed - Magic race fighters (Astral Monsters) were missing.
10. Changed - Added the Depleted Uranium Cannon back into the mod.
11. Changed - Colony Modules can now only be placed on Ships.
12. Added - Readded hybrid colony modules.
13. Changed - Increased research cost of Advanced Military Theory from 15000 to 25000.
14. Added - Magic and Organic themed alternate Main.bmp button graphics, by General Woundwort.
15. Added - Physical themed alternate Main.bmp button graphics, by David E. Gervais.
16. Added - Fibroin Weave for Organic Races, which is the high level armor component with the Armor ability.
17. Fixed - Cellulose Shells tech area now requires Chitin Shells instead of Armor.
18. Fixed - Spelling error in description of Inherent Regeneration racial trait.
19. Removed - Neutron Cannon (BP) is now pointless, as the Neutron Cannon (SS) can already destroy Boarding Parties. So, it has been removed. Neutron Cannon (SS) is now just Neutron Cannon.
20. Fixed - Point Defense Cannons and Flak Cannons now list their bonuses to hit in their ability tags.
21. Changed - PDC bonuses to hit now range from 20 to 70 instead of 70 at all levels.
22. Changed - Flak Cannon bonuses to hit now range from 10 to 40 instead of 70 at all levels.

[ August 12, 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[FMMonty]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
FMMonty:
Any progress or ideas you want to run by me or anything?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Must say I decided not to worry about names until later in the process, until I hit a snag. I was cheerfully making up df weapons with no concept of what the rational behind why the weapon does the damage would be.

So, I am currently thinking of a number of seeking weapon types (think wasps), some very short range melee type attacks (claws, bite, tenticles).

The other things could be a spit type weapon, and maybe some spike shooter ideas.

I do wonder about making the ships primarily seeker armed with melee weapons, but that would require very careful balancing. Up to you, how do you see their weapon Groups progressing?

[Fyron]

Primarily missiles and short range (melee) weapons doesn't really fit with Organic races. It might if they were actually wasps or something, but they are not. More of a general organicy type race. They would definitely need some weapons like the Organic Manipulation tech tree weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They should have some powerful melee type weapons, but also some longer ranged ones too.

[Fyron]

I have decided to use a new Intro pic. You can get it here:

800x600 (http://spaceempires.net/files/seiv/mods/adamant/800.exe) - 450 KB
1024x768 (http://spaceempires.net/files/seiv/mods/adamant/1024.exe) - 1.39 MB

They are self-extracing RAR archives (as ZIP sucks...), so you do not need any archive program to extract them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Extract them into the Adamant\Pictures\Game\800x600 or the Adamant\Pictures\Game\1024x768 folder.

Edit:
Ok, SE4 is just stupid. On 1024x768 resolution, a 800x600 intro pic makes the text buttons have a white background. On 1280x1024, they have the normal black background.

This image comes from Birth of the Federation, copyright some time by Microprose.

[ August 25, 2003, 10:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

Ok, I have decided to change the intro pic just a tad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif You can get a preview here:

http://spaceempires.net/files/Intro.jpg

[Atrocities]

I need to get the newest Version of your AI defualt files to I can avoid the errors at the start of the game. The file you sent me Last night did not fix it.

[Fyron]

Version 0.13.00 has been released! Check out thie History file for the latest changes:

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/History.txt

[Fyron]

I have been adding descriptions to the various vehicle sizes in the mod. Here is my work so far: VehicleSizes.txt (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1063408547.txt)

If you view this file, comments/suggestions are REQUIRED. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Don't make me bump this incessantly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

BUMP

[Atrocities]

Hey I have been playing your mod a bit lately, and I have to say Fyron, this is one well thought out, compreesive mod. I am enjoying it a lot.

Would you care if I tried to adapt my Ticon (http://www.astmod.com/nasy/concept/Ticon/Ticon.htm) and Kiriath (http://www.astmod.com/races/Kiriath/Kiriath.htm) race Ai to use your mod? If I can get it to work, would you consider using it in the mod?

Again, great work on this mod.

[Fyron]

Sure. I might have to make a separate "races" pack if I get too many races in the mod though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Atrocities]

Dude this mod is as much fun to play as Proportions. How did you find the time to make it so indepth?

[Fyron]

Umm... not that hard when it is spread out over a year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Atrocities]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So you have focused more on the Multiplayer aspect of the game and less on the Single Player. I can see the logic behind this as this mod would be awsome in a PBW game.

The SP games are good as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Very challenging at times.

[Fyron]

I hope you didn't mean SP games of Adamant, as the AI can not even design any ships... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Brand new screen shots available on http://adamant.spaceempires.net/ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Atrocities]

Fantastic. Even more proof that this is a kick *** mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Atrocities]

Nice Component shots. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Like I said, this mod is a great play.

[Fyron]

Hopefully, basic AI support will be available within a month! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[deccan]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I hope you didn't mean SP games of Adamant, as the AI can not even design any ships... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No offense, Atrocities, but you seem to be going out of your way to praise the Imperator. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Atrocities and Fyron are the same person? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Atrocities and Fyron are the same person? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As funny as that would be, no. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ September 19, 2003, 01:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Brand new screen shots available on http://adamant.spaceempires.net/ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The home page is as expected (near perfect) and your forums is always of interest
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Adamant Mod Patch 0.13.09.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1066189823.zip)

[Atrocities]

Thanks Fyron. Will those who are playing in your PBW Beta have to update as well?

[ October 15, 2003, 04:34: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Fyron]

I sent out a news email with the link to this file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Atrocities]

Hummm, I did not get it. Oh well. I read it in the game info at PBW so all is well and the game is progressing ok.

Great mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Adamant Mod Patch 0.13.10.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1066343494.zip)

[Imperial]

just curious if the mod has AI support yet for single player))--

[Fyron]

Not yet. Hopefully JLS will finish up AIC 4.1 and release it, so that he can get to work on the Adamant AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

There is so much to the Adamant mod that one can play it for a long time and still not learn everything. Very nice job Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Saber Cherry]

This mod SOUNDS awesome (homepage is down, so I don't know what it looks like). But if I'm reading this thread correctly, it is unusable for single player games (because the AI does not design ships, or something). Is that correct?

[Fyron]

The new homepage is down, but the old is still up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/

JLS is working on some AIs for the mod so that it will be useable in SP mode. It is still in alpha, afterall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Atrocities]

Hey Fyron, I keep getting a 404 error on this latest patch link even when I am logged into PBW.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/Download/filelib/896/Adamant+Patch+0.13.11.zip

I guess I need the file to play the latest turn, but I can not seem to get it.

[Atrocities]

Never mind, I was able to get the file section of PBW to work this time. Odd, I tried for hours to get into the file library and could not. I kept getting a timed out error. Damn dial up!

[Fyron]

The "new" Adamant Mod web site (on SE.net) is back up.

[Fyron]

The Psionic Disciplines of Metacreation (powers create objects, creatures, or some form of matter), Psychometabolism (powers change the physical properties of the psion) and Psychoportation (powers move the manifester, an object, or another creature through space and time) don't really have much in them. Anyone have suggestions on what to add to them?

[Saber Cherry]

Guns. Lots of guns.

Oh, wait, this isn't the movie quotes thread...

[Ed Kolis]

Off the top of my head...

Psychoportation:
Psionic Supply Transfer - Effectively a Quantum Reactor, it transfers supplies from an infinite pool on the homeworld.
Beam-the-enemy-leader-into-the-center-of-the-sun/beam-the-center-of-the-sun-into-whatever-you-want/a million other cheesy applications of psionic teleportation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif (Hey, if you allow teleporting of SOME stuff, why not ANYTHING? OK, I guess you could place a mass or heat limit on it or something, saying that it strains the mind to move really heavy or hot objects...)
PK Tractor - Long range tractor beam
PK Repulsor - Powerful repulsor beam
PK Fuya / PK Thunda - Mispronounced attacks from Super Smash Bros. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Psychometabolism:
Ultra-Spartan Crew Quarters - Crew quarters that are even smaller and cheaper than regular Spartan Crew Quarters, but don't provide any extra penalties beyond those of normal Spartan Crew Quarters (the crew can adapt to this environment)
Zero-G Troopers - Improved boarding parties who are disciplined to withstand zero gravity; an even more enhanced Version could be available with the Zero-G Engineers trait
Ultra-Spartan Colony Module - Smaller colony module due to reduced need for support equipment
I'd suggest something to reduce the food consumed by population, except that they don't consume any in the first place! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (If I were to make a mod, I'd probably make all systems 1 star and give all facilities that require people to work a negative solar organics generation in order to simulate food consumption... OK, so it's based on facilities not population but it's the best I can do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Metacreation:
Mental Construction Yard - sort of like Temporal Spaceyard
Mental Replicator - Mini spaceyard for building units onboard carriers and transports (though normal races could use something like this too), possibly with the "emergency supply pod" ability if you don't get rid of those things entirely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Psionic Matter Converter - generates resources from solar energy (like the crystalline facility) and also converts between resources
Psionic CT Engine - much cheaper Version of the Contra Terrene engine which relies on psionic conVersion of matter to antimatter by rotating it through the fourth dimension, instead of producing it the hard way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


What is the difference between Psychoportation and Telekinesis anyway? They both move things with the power of the mind... Does Psychoportation make them "jump" places instantaneously without traversing the space in between while Telekinesis makes them "slide" like things normally move? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Fyron]

Here are some powers from D&D, though I am not sure how to translate them to SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif :

Psychometabolism:
Elfsight. You have low-light vision.
Lesser Natural Armor. You gain +1 natural armor bonus.
Talongs. Your unarmed attacks deal +1 damage.
Verve. You gain 1 temporary hit point.
Biofeedback. Self-control allows you to take some damage as subdual damage.
Compression. You shrink 10%/level (max 50%).
Empathic Transfer. You absorb others' hurts.
Feel Light. You use tactile sensation to see.
Feel Sound. You use tactile sensation to hear.
Hear Light. You use auditory sensation to see.
Lesser Body Adjustment. You heal1d8 hp, or gain a +1 bonus on your next Fortitude save to resist ability damage.
Animal Affinity. You possess one ability score of a chosen animal.
Body Equilibrium. You can walk on nonsolid surfaces.
Chameleon. You gain a +10 enhancement bonus on Hide checks.
Sustenance. You can go without food and water.
Ectoplasmic Form. Your amorphous form is hard to hurt.
Rejuvenation. You heal 1 point of temporary ability damage/hour.
Polymorph Self. You assume a new form.
Adapt Body. You adapt your body to hostile environments.
Energy Barrier. You convert energy attacks to harmless light.
Suspend Life. Your life functions slow to imperceptibility.
Energy ConVersion. You convert energy attacks to one ray energy attack of your own.
Fission. You briefly duplicate yourself.
Hypercognition. You can deduce almost anything.
Iron Body. Your body becomes living iron.
Affinity Field. Effects that affect you also affect others.


Psychoportation:
Burst. Subject speed improves by 10 ft. for 1 round.
Float. You buoy a subject in water or other liquid.
Call Weaponry. Never lack for a weapon.
Skate. Subject slides (skillfully) along the ground as if ice.
Spider climb. Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings.
Knock. Opens locked or psionically locked doors.
Astral Steed. Astral steed appears for 1 hour/level.
Fly. Subject flies at speed of 90 ft.
Dimension Door. Teleports you and up to 500 lb. a short distance.
Dismissal. Forces a creature to return to a native plane.
Sending. Delivers short message anywhere instantly.
Teleport. Instantly transports you anywhere.
Retrieve. You teleport to your hand an item you can see.
Trace Teleport. Learn origin or goal of subject's teleport.
Phase Door. Invisible passage through wood or stone.
Plane Shift. Up to eight subjects navel to another plane.
Dream Travel. You travel to other places through dreams.
Temporal Acceleration. Your time frame accelerates for 2 rounds.
Temporal Velocity. Your time frame accelerates for 3d4 rounds.


Metacreation:
Astral Construct I. Creates astral construct to fight for you.
Grease. Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.
Psycholuminescence. Object sheds silvery light.
Ectoplasmic Cocoon. You encapsulate a foe so it can't move.
Burning Ray. Fiery ray deals 3d6 damage to foe.
Create Food and Water. Feed's three humans (or one horse)/level.
Metaphysical Weapon. Weapon gains a +3 bonus.
Fabricate. Transforms raw goods to finished items.
Wall of Ectoplasm. You create a protective barrier.
Ectoplasmic Armor. Subject gains a +10 armor bonus.
Flaming Shroud. Encased foe rakes 11d6 fire, damage.
Contingency. Sets trigger condition for another power.
Mind Store. Store your personality against future need.
Genesis. You instigate a new demiplane in the Astral Plane.

[Fyron]

What is the difference between Psychoportation and Telekinesis anyway? They both move things with the power of the mind... Does Psychoportation make them "jump" places instantaneously without traversing the space in between while Telekinesis makes them "slide" like things normally move? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Psychoportation:
Psychoportation powers move the manifester, an object, or another creature through space and time. Representative powers include astral projection, dimension door, teleport, and teleport trigger.

True understanding of that reality allows the nomad to prize loose small fissures and cracks in existence, and then slip through them to new locations in space, and even in time.

Psychokinesis:
Psychokinesis powers manipulate energy or tap the power of the mind to produce a desired end. Many of these powers produce interesting visual effects above and beyond the standard secondary display, such as moving, melting, transforming, or bLasting a target. Psychokinesis powers can deal large amounts of damage. Representative powers include concussion, matter agitation, and matter manipulation.

Telekinesis and its variants are the heart of the Psychokinesis discipline. It is the purest expression of the savant’s power: mind over matter, movement at a distance. The power allows the user's mind to grip the fabric of reality and move it as she wills. Telekinesis is the most obvious use of the power, but even powers such as matter agitation and concussion involve the movement and rearrangement of very tiny motes of reality. The particular new arrangement determines the specific effect. For instance, concussion creates an invisible bulge in the fabric of reality, and the psion uses that bulge to pummel the desired target.

[Atrocities]

I would love to get in to this discussion, but my will to do anything has been seriously depleted.

Sorry Fyron, I love your mod and all, but I am far to tired to drive into such a deep subject.

[JLS]

Fyron, I am downloading v0.13.00 now
AdamantFULL.exe

I need familiarize myself and then delve into the AI.

Which AI Player would you like to start with?

[Fyron]

You might want to snag the 0.13.13 patch next. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=20

It does not really matter which you start with. Just pick any physical race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I have been given the green light to use TDM AIs as a base.

Could you please keep a log of the changes you have to make to the AI to get it to function in the mod? This would be a great aide to others that decide to make their AIs compatible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, whatever dummy tags are necessary can be added in easily (well, not always easily... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Consistency is crucial, ofc. And, making them not totally interfere with the stuff that the Space Monsters use would be a good idea.

[ October 27, 2003, 00:40: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You might want to snag the 0.13.13 patch next. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=20

It does not really matter which you start with. Just pick any physical race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I have been given the green light to use TDM AIs as a base.

Could you please keep a log of the changes you have to make to the AI to get it to function in the mod? This would be a great aide to others that decide to make their AIs compatible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, whatever dummy tags are necessary can be added in easily (well, not always easily... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Consistency is crucial, ofc. And, making them not totally interfere with the stuff that the Space Monsters use would be a good idea. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK, Abbi it is at 13.13 and with no Space Monsters conflicts, I think I can manage this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I will get it off to a start, but it is expected you will have many more data additions that will effect the first product.

I doubt TDM and/or AIC files will have much to offer as a foundation in regards to the Major AI Files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

- - -

However, there will be a few consultations you may have to make with some of the base data, but this can wait until I have more of the Ducks lined up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 01:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Well, just 3 basic sets of AI files (physical, magic and organic) would do great for now, so that people can start using the mod in SP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Most family numbers are identical for similar comps/facilities for the 3 race types. It is just the stuff unique to one type or the other that differs. So, just a bunch of name changes are what is needed to get Organic and Magic AI files off to a start, then lots of editing of the ship design files, due to different sized ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files...

[ October 27, 2003, 01:24: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Alneyan]

Good luck to you JLS with Adamant AIs , I am eager to see these as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (Then I will be able to heavily complain about Adamant as well. *Evil chuckle*)

[tesco samoa]

Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.

TDM major files are a precise amalgamation of base se4 stock DATA and ONLY base se4 data.
---> (few if any Adamant Data interpetations)

AIC AI drivers are a amalgamation that depends on the cooperation of the base data AIC supplies.
The same applies to the precise and fine work that went into Rollos Devnul, PFKs Proportions, Tampa Bays Sound, FQM and the many others.

There is no way TDM, AIC or any mod AI driver files will work; even near 50% effective in Adamant. The file at base will not produce what you want intended, properly Defend when needed and attack when the correct opportune arises and there is much more.

Now if this is in-Forum politics or you desire the TDM label, then sure
.
I will open each of TDMs AI Files, then select all and then cut. In this way, you may say the AI started from a TDM file base. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use.

[ October 27, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tesco, you may use reactors to improve the range of your colonizers. I seem to recall from when I was in Adamant 010 than a Colonizer with 18 engines meant a speed of 2 with something like 2000 or 2500 supplies, or perhaps even more, if the other components are reactors.

Good luck to travel through these two empty systems though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you are using AI this will cause problems. The AI will start using colony components on large warships to satisfy it's requirment for additional supply storage. If the mod is for humans only though this could work. Or the supply generation as Alyenan suggests should work as well.

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The TDM AI files are much better basis than the stock AI files... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron,
In regards to AI driver files.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Fyron perhaps the colony component could have 2000 supply points on it. This would greatly help with the colony ships not running out of fuel very quickly. As each engine starts with 20 supply points a turn and it takes about 18 or 20 engines to move two points. So you run out of supplies right away. And if your lucky enough to hit two empty systems your screwed. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Start up a game on medium tech, and you will see that it is in this regard similar to stock SE4's low tech. Again, I wanted "low tech start" to mean low tech start in Adamant... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Colony ships can get 2 systems over or so easily, but that's it. It would not make sense for ships using fission engines and such to be able to have a great range...

Geo, you could build the supplies in to the colony ship hull itself. In Adamant, the colony ship is 3300 kT, and the colony module is 3000 kT. Good luck fitting one on a non-colony ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

In regards to AI driver files.
Yes, the TDM AIs are precise... that is the whole point. The stock AI files are comparatively poorly written. Just converting them to be compatible with Adamant will result in equally poor AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Changing TDM AIs to work in Adamant will require the same amount of work as converting the stock AIs (as all of the exact same conVersions are necessary in either case; look at SJ's AI Patcher for P&N, it can work on both stock AIs and custom AIs like TDM). Better to start with a strong foundation than a weak one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It has nothing to do with "forum politics" or the "TDM label;" it just has to do with better AI files. And trust me, I know how the AI works (not the specific details, but in general). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK fyron, what TDM AI would you recomend for what ADAMANT RACE...

And this is my final example.

Actually lets go with (A) our original Abbidon choice.
- -
If I add the Adamant weapons to there Design File and add what ever Adamant Facilities to that construction file and do NOT totally rebuild any TDM AI driver files from the bottom up; other then the added Adamant Weapons and Facilities etc.

- - -

Any player can make your Adamant AI based on se4 TDM drivers and your Adamant data COWER into:

Protectorate Treaty
Subjugation Treaty
Then Accept any Human Players Demand for surrender


Get this; it can probably be done WITHOUT any Human Player researching any not even one, existing sole Adamant tech and only building a FEW SHIPS; a matter of fact it is doubtful I even need to build a facility or start a new colony. And to boot; in simu play; I can do this all within 5 years, with most default game starts.

I know the players that will find the way and find it quick. How about you, please tell me if you know what Adamant data will allow us Human Players to Cower all your AI; with drivers that are tuned to another data source.

= = = = =

However, when playing TDM with the Stock se4 data that TDM is tuned with; and the same Drivers less your Adamant Weapons and Facilities, the TDM Abbi has and will rule most players.

[ October 27, 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

I think you missed my point... I never said just throw in TDM AIs and use them unaltered... of course that would not work. My point was that they are a better base to work from than the stock AIs, as they are written better. All of the weapon families are the same in Adamant as in stock, save the new Flak Cannons and a few new specialty weapons. Other component families are the same as well, except for armors, as there are a few more types of those. Facility families are identical as well, save for some new facilities, of which there are not many. The majority of the changes are tweaks of stock data (and of course duplicating loads of stuff for magic and organic races, though all family numbers were preserved in the duplications).

If you can take stock AI files and make them perform as well in Adamant as the TDM AIs do in stock (or better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ), go ahead and do so. But, a lot of the same generic tweaks that are necessary to make the AI perform better in any mod are already done in the TDM AIs, so there would be less work involved...

It does not matter which race you pick. The plan for now is to get 3 sets of AI files (one for each race type) that work fairly well in the mod, and just port them to all the other AIs, so that some SP games could be played. Actually, now that I think about it, it might be necessary to edit more AIs than that, based on racial tech traits. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

The AI drivers have to be totally re-built from the Bottom up to except even (Some) of what you would like them to accept.

I will need any new general information that is different from what is described in Abbi’s AI_General file.

Your desired AI_Strategies file in case I need to tweak while testing (for Abbi specifics only).

Note:
AI Files that do not have to be rebuilt.
Abbidon_AI_Speech

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?

[ October 27, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

It's up to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It's up to you... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The General.txt file needs the race type and HW planet type traits added as the first advanced traits (they cost 0, so if added as the Last ones, they will not be selected...). Just set up their characteristics and traits as close to what they are in stock as possible.

I believe the latest Default_Strategies.txt file form the Ultimate Strategies Mod is in Adamant. Use that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Have you figured out the puzzle below on how to beat the AI using your existing data?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can't think of any exploits that are not already possible in stock SE4... if someone wants to exploit the AI as much as possible to cheat their way to victory, that is their problem, not mine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you want your AI to be great in multiplayer or a Week End LAN party, you can not adopt this philosophy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them...

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is always possible to exploit the AI, no matter the mod... you can always make them not accept trades or surrenders, ever, but that kind of detracts from any sort of interaction with them... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never suggested "accept trades or surrenders turned" off...

Just change your Data so the Human Players can’t build a Huge Fortress Ships and extra large Juggernaut from the beginning of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 27, 2003, 22:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

I have a Juggernaut and a Fortress Ship, both of which require level 16 ship construction techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Am I missing something here? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[JLS]

Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.


Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:

If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Reference

Adamant Colonizer Hull

Name := Colony Ship
Short Name := Colony Ship
Description :=
Code := CL
Primary Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Alternate Bitmap Name := ColonyShip
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 3300
Cost Minerals := 150
Cost Organics := 600
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 18


=============================================
AI POLITICS DATA FILE - Default
=============================================

This file governs how an empire decides to send Messages. (Accept Messages and set Postures and much, much more)

Score Percent:
This is the percentage of the target player's score to ours. So
if we have a score of 10000, and they have a score of 15000, this percentage
would be 150%.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader.


================================================
AI DATA FILE - Settings
==================================================

Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Amount := 510
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 1 Num Turns := 20
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Amount := 610
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 2 Num Turns := 40
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Amount := 0
Max Ship Size Tonnage From Start 3 Num Turns := 0

[ October 28, 2003, 01:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

E Koli maybe I would like to play a LAN game in Adamant with a good AI like I do with the AIC MOD.
When you only have 1 or two freinds over, its not much fun one on one ot two against one.

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ October 28, 2003, 07:04: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Fyron]

All that score stuff can easily be taken care of... just double or triple the score ratios necessary for those bad treaties and surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Do AI bonus resources count towards their score? I forget. If so, then an AI with even a low bonus has 2x the starting score from resources as the human does, so a few colony ships will not be that drastic.

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.

You may attempt some setting in the AI DATA FILE - Settings
, but in all probability it will be for not. In v1.78 for a +600 ship, I spent days trying to get this to work

You also may want to confirm this with Malfader. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because Ekolis does not represent everyone that plays SE4... his opinion is no more or less valid than yours.

Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif I am confused. What exactly are you refering too? I incorporated the Colony Tech Mod by Ekolis moments after it came out some time ago... I do not see this stuff in AIC. Please clarify.

[ October 28, 2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by JLS:
However, the cold truth is; for without the AI understanding your data Fyron, all you have in Adamant is a depository of past and the present cells of Facilities, Platforms, and Components along with images, geo and eco support that is pure and unrefined data that for the most part; only a Human may read and then possibly understand its intended use. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Uh, are you saying that a mod is useless without good AI files? I personally play SE4 almost exclusively multiplayer, because it's such a long, drawn-out game that I can never motivate myself to finish a single-player game; I need other people who are depending on me to play my empire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, JLS was merely speaking of the understanding of Adamant by the AI. For an AI, Adamant is currently only a lot of facilities, hulls, components and so on, impossible to understand and to use. He said that because Fyron and he were discussing which AI to use as a fundation, how to best code an AI and other technical matter alongs these lines. So JLS didn't say anything about the usefulness of a mod with or without AI files.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
Your Colonizer is 3300 kt and every time a Player builds one the score will climb, every time a player lands the score will drop; dramatically.
Now if I have 6 in flight to planets and building one and a Avg Gas Type AI has 2 in flight you have the AI out scored in this area alone; this AI Player is forced into thinking you have a huge fleet:
If the AI or an unfamiliar Human Player is near all I need is several 3300kt Colony ships over my Home World plus several fair ships but far inferior to my opponant; However, my score may have me master. Or at least apear that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JLS I remember in LAN games that the AI would not build 1500kt Colonizers in Proportions for almost 100 turns but I think that was fixed in se4 v1.78 or se4 1.84.

But I see your point about the AI thinking that a 3300 KT Colonizer can be a Massive Base Ship.

[ October 28, 2003, 15:00: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[tesco samoa]

hmm... geo that is a problem.

As is the current situation. A bad start and your done. Which is what I currently have. And yes I have maxed the ship out with the supply storage. But it is worthless as it is now due to the fact that the engines use too much supplies at the beginning. I am sure it is corrected later on in the game. But that is illrevelent to the current situation. As I am talking about the early game with low tech start.

It is an issue.

[Grand Lord Vito]

JLS:
"In addition, as far as I recall as of se4 v1.78 and probably to date the AI will not build ships that are over a certain KT. If IRRC its between 400 and 590 kt, so in effect your AI will not build Colonizer over (what ever it was 400 to 590) in simu games for 50 turns, you may consider reducing your Colonizers to that minimum.
You also may want to confirm this with Malfader"


Fyron:
"You can certainly have AIs building big ships, just increase the design sizes and max tonnage at various start levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Have you never seen any TDM AIs with baseships or DNs? Or, have you never seen the AIs build colony ships in Proportions or AIC? In there, colony ships are 1800 kT."
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess you never played LAN fyron, because prior to the Last se4 patched Version the AI would not build ships over 600kt for 50 to 100 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

JLS can you confirm if this is fixed yet, I think it was.

[ October 28, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

ME:
Forget it, sully after E Koli post why do you even bother to help.

Fyron
Because Ekolis does not represent everyone that plays SE4... his opinion is no more or less valid than yours.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I think EKolis is right - "Adamant is better played without the AI"

[Grand Lord Vito]

ME:
Fyron I noticed the Rock Natives Trait/Tech and Compnent LAYOUT from JLS work in the AIC mod released Last febuary

Fyron:
Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif I am confused. What exactly are you refering too? I incorporated the Colony Tech Mod by Ekolis moments after it came out some time ago... I do not see this stuff in AIC. Please clarify. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I received an EMAIL to mind my own business. It was polite and to that effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
No, I think EKolis is right - "Adamant is better played without the AI" <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, right now that the AI is unmodded and can not work in Adamant... but just wait til some modded AIs are made. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
I received an EMAIL to mind my own business. It was polite and to that effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok... I am now more confused than ever. Who sent an email? What were you talking about to begin with? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
hmm... geo that is a problem.

As is the current situation. A bad start and your done. Which is what I currently have. And yes I have maxed the ship out with the supply storage. But it is worthless as it is now due to the fact that the engines use too much supplies at the beginning. I am sure it is corrected later on in the game. But that is illrevelent to the current situation. As I am talking about the early game with low tech start.

It is an issue. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Starting behind several empty systems will screw you over in stock SE4 as well. I am still not convinced it is an issue for humans... for AI probably, as they turn their ships around as soon as they get below a certain supply threshhold (which I hope can be modded in Settings.txt, will have to check).

[Fyron]

Based on Lighthorse's suggestion for the romulans in the STM thread...

I think I need to add some sort of cloaking device that can be used in combat too. You can't cloak in combat, so it would give an ECM bonus, representing the ability to decloak, fire, and then recloak. Any good ideas on a name and type of cloaking this would be to distinguish it from regular cloaking devices?

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
All that score stuff can easily be taken care of... just double or triple the score ratios necessary for those bad treaties and surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Do AI bonus resources count towards their score? I forget. If so, then an AI with even a low bonus has 2x the starting score from resources as the human does, so a few colony ships will not be that drastic.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You may think Fyron, however http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I believe the Adamant AI will vacillate and dither as the Human Players builds, maintains in flight then lands multiple 3300kt Colonizers.

In addition, when 3300kt Colonizers are NOT being built by the Human Player (1) with the AI as you recommend “score double or triple the score ratios stuff”; will cause the AI to now think HP (1) is weak and puny but yet HP (1) may have a superior Combat Fleet value worthy to take on that AI.

Yet Human Player (2) with a much lesser Combat Fleet value but has Multiple 3300kt Colonizer in Flight with the same AI will think this player is “score ratios” more powerful. Hence, this AI Player may decide to change posture towards Human Player (1) the actual stronger Player.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 29, 2003, 15:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Since the AI will build plenty of its own 3300 kT colony ships, I think you are blowing this a little out of proportion...

[Ed Kolis]

Tactical Cloaking Device? Multi-Band Cloaking Device?

[tesco samoa]

fyron what is up with the fighters... under your current set up. You cannot arm fighters with any weapons , engines supplies...

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
fyron what is up with the fighters... under your current set up. You cannot arm fighters with any weapons , engines supplies... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Have you checked the fighters only mounts? Their purpose is to decrease the size and the costs of components for fighters, including engines and weapons. It worked fine when I played with full-tech , although I was a bit surprised at first like you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tesco samoa]

hmmm the only mount available was normal mount

[Fyron]

What sort of race are you playing as? Also, you have to select a fighter size before the mounts will show up, as they are scaled mounts based on vehicle size.

[Fyron]

I have expanded the help documents to include a help file on fighters. The next Version of the mod will include it. But, I have stuck it Online so you can see it now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/

[Ed Kolis]

There don't seem to be any mounts for fighter supply storage... is this intentional? 5kT seems like a rather large quantum of space to devote to supply storage on a fighter - I'd think you should be able to cram in an extra 1kT worth if you want, or take 1kT away if you need the space for something else...

[Fyron]

Sure there are, they just require level one in fighters tech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 12, 2003, 02:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Atrocities]

Fyron can you also provide lists ranked by racial traits for Technology, Facility, Weapons, and other for all races. This will help a lot for setting up an AI to use the mod.

I would like to set up a few AI's to use the mod so that SP will have some bit to it.

Since you know the mod inside and out it would be best for you to provide the info. Thanks.

[JLS]

I made a list from the Last Adamant Version, I will update it for you and email it Atrocities.

[Fyron]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

You can get a tech tree very easily. Just start up the game with each of the race types on high tech start and then export the in-game tech tree listing to a text file.

As for the rest, I would rather wait until the mod is a bit more complete before doing anything like that, as things are definitely bound to change drastically (especially with regards to weapons).

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:


As for the rest, I would rather wait until the mod is a bit more complete before doing anything like that, as things are definitely bound to change drastically (especially with regards to weapons). <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is the truith, I am pulling my hair out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ November 19, 2003, 15:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Well you just need one set of weapon families, as they are currently the same for all 3 race types... they are using the same weapons. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And, the Physical race weapons are likely to remain with the same families. I might change the weapons a bit, but leave their families the same.

And, I just want a functional set of AIs right now; they do not have to be the best AIs ever yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 19, 2003, 15:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

There is some discussion about magic weapons for Adamant going on over on SE.net at:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=256

Feel free to stop by! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by JLS:
I made a list from the Last Adamant Version, I will update it for you and email it Atrocities. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you JLS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ed Kolis]

Hey Fyron... I can't access SE.net, it just gives me a 403 permission denied error... even when I go to the main mage... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Alneyan]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Hey Fyron... I can't access SE.net, it just gives me a 403 permission denied error... even when I go to the main mage... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I had the same problem this morning (that is to say, around midnight in the States), but now it works fine for me. Yesterday Posts disappeared as well, and now they are back. *Frowns* Was I daydreaming?

[Fyron]

I just sent a trouble ticket to the web host.

[Fyron]

Just so you know, I am still *cough* hard *cough* at work with the mod. It is up to Version 0.13.20! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Adamant Mod 0.13.20 Patch (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=358)

Version 0.13.20 - 9 December 2003:
Files Altered: CompEnhancement.txt, Components.txt
1. Fixed - 0-G space yards had a roman numeral that was one too high.
2. Fixed - Mana Resource Storage is now Radioactives Resource Storage.
3. Fixed - Radioactives Resource Warehouse is now Mana Resource Warehouse.
4. Added - 5x and 10x scaled armor mounts for Fighter, Satellite, Troop.
5. Added - 5x, 10x, and 100x scaled armor mounts for Weapon Platforms.

[Fyron]

So is anyone playing this mod other than the PBW games Adamant 010 and Adamant 011? If so, what are your comments/opinions on it?

[Imperial]

Is it playable now in single player-- AI compatible and such?

[Fyron]

Not yet, but soon. Hopefully.

[Asmala]

I found two bugs (or rather typos http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ):
-Graviton Hellbore has so long description that it's abilities doesn't show
-[%ShieldPointsGenerated] doesn't work in facilities, so Planetary Shield Array's description should be changed

[Fyron]

Version 0.13.21 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Facility.txt
1. Fixed - Entertainment Network/Temple District now say "only 1 facility per planet effective" instead of "only 1 facility per system effective".
2. Fixed - Description of Entertainment Network had a typo in it.
3. Added - Entertainment Network/Temple District and Urban Pacification Center/Theater District now have ability tags that mention that they do not stack with each other.
4. Fixed - Reduced length of component description for Gravition Hellbores because it caused the text of the ability tag descriptions to be cut off.
5. Fixed - [%ShieldPointsGenerated] does not work for ability descriptions for facilities. All instances of it in Facility.txt have been replaced by the actual amount of shield points.
6. Fixed - Tower of Protection I had an extraneous ability.

[Asmala]

Why somebody would use those big weapon platforms? The only benefit which I see is a smaller percent is devoted to computer core. Do I miss something?

[Fyron]

Compare how quickly you lose firepower when large WPs are being destroyed as opposed to small WPs being destroyed. If a small can take 200 damage and a large can take 400, when the planet takes 200 damage, half of its firepower will be gone if it had 2 small WPs. If it had a large one, no firepower is lost at this point.

[Asmala]

Good point. But the difference isn't big between 600kt and 800kt platforms. So I don't think it's worth to research Ground Fortress unless everything important is already researched.

[Fyron]

So how would you suggest I improve them?

[Ed Kolis]

It's a fortress, right? So give it special shield and armor mounts... to make my standard weapon platforms cheaper, I often leave out the combat sensors and design a "Command Center" with just the computer core, combat sensors or Religious Talisman, and lots of armor or shields (to make sure it has more HP than any other platform, so it gets hit Last), and build one on each planet. This works especially well in Proportions with its 100kT, 4000-mineral Fire Control Centers! Wouldnt' want one of THOSE on every platform! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif So anyway, you take this fortress and make it your command center, fill it up with lots of armor with a special mount, and you've got something that's guaranteed to get hit Last, and when it is, it can hold out for a while! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

WPs are actually hit in random order. However, each shot hits a new random WP. The damage all builds up as one sum and adds to each new shot until enough is done to destroy the WP that was randomly selected. WPs with fewer HPs tend to be destroyed before those with more HPs because the chance of enough damage having been accumulated to destroy one is greater than against a tougher WP. But, there is no gaurantee.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So how would you suggest I improve them? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Some nice mount for Ground Fortress would be nice. Perhaps a weapon mount with more accurary bonus and range, or more damage.

[Fyron]

There is still a significant risk of it being destroyed before all other WPs are gone.

Maybe I will just give the WP "hulls" a built-in CS bonus. 10% per level sound good?

[ December 15, 2003, 17:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

The risk depends how the platforms are destroyed, and I'm not quite sure about it. There's two possible ways weapon platforms are destroyed are:

1. Completely random, each platform has equal likelihood to be selected

2. The likelihood is related to HPs of platform, similar way to the destruction of components in ships. Thus if you have 600kt and 200kt platforms, it's 75% probability to hit 600kt platform and 25% probability to hit 200kt platform.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
WPs are actually hit in random order. However, each shot hits a new random WP. The damage all builds up as one sum and adds to each new shot until enough is done to destroy the WP that was randomly selected. WPs with fewer HPs tend to be destroyed before those with more HPs because the chance of enough damage having been accumulated to destroy one is greater than against a tougher WP. But, there is no gaurantee. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is the way in which all planetary cargo is destroyed. One of the recent patches made it so that WPs get destroyed before all other cargo, but the method of destruction remains the same.

[Asmala]

Since weapon platforms are destroyed completely random there's practically no risk to lose your command center.

Example (otherwise you won't believe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ):
1 fully armored command center platform: 22000 HP
platform with weapons and armor: 6700 HP

Assume the planet is bombarded with global death ray in heavy mount, 750 damage. After 8 shots the weapon platform can be destroyed so the rest of the shots must hit to command center. That means 22000/750 - 8 = 22 consecutive shots must hit to command center. Each hit has 50% probability to hit command center, which means it's 0.5^22= 0,000023% likelihood that command center is destroyed first. And that's the best case, if there is 10 weapon and one command platform the odds are even smaller. And if the weapon does less damage than 750, like most of weapons do, the odds are again even smaller.

So do you still think it's significant risk? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

I think you misunderstood significant risk. I did not say huge risk, I said that the risk is significant enough to be meaningful.

Also, keep in mind that WPs do NOT take partial damage. All damage gets built up until a shot randomly selects a WP that has enough damage built up to destroy it. You do NOT need 22 consecutive hits against it to destroy the Command Center WP.

[Asmala]

0,000023% means if you do 4.3 million attacks it's one time when command center is destroyed before the weapon platform. You really think that's meaningful? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Also, keep in mind that WPs do NOT take partial damage.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Did you even read what I wrote? You DO need 22 consecutive hits to command center or the weapon platform is destroyed first. After 8 shots there is so much damage built up so the ninth shot will destroy the weapon platform, so it must hit to the command center. After that EVERY shot must hit to command center until there is enough damage built up that it's destroyed. If only one of those 22 shots hits to weapon platform it's destroyed first.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Maybe I will just give the WP "hulls" a built-in CS bonus. 10% per level sound good? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sounds good. Are you going to remove the mount accuracy bonus? I think you shouldn't, weapon platforms have usually great difficulties to hit ships.

[Fyron]

If only computers actually made real random calculations... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I do not plan to remove the to hit bonus of WP mounts.

[Fyron]

Version 0.13.22 released!

Files Altered: CompEnhancement.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Added - Weapon Platforms get a +10-40% bonus to hit.
2. Added - Added Orbital Fighter Reactor Mount.

[Ed Kolis]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
WPs are actually hit in random order. However, each shot hits a new random WP. The damage all builds up as one sum and adds to each new shot until enough is done to destroy the WP that was randomly selected. WPs with fewer HPs tend to be destroyed before those with more HPs because the chance of enough damage having been accumulated to destroy one is greater than against a tougher WP. But, there is no gaurantee. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh, looks like I'll have to change my strategy then... for my command centers I was building small WP's filled with enough armor to make sure they have more HP than the most HP of any WP, but looks like I'll have to build the largest WP's possible!

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Oh, looks like I'll have to change my strategy then... for my command centers I was building small WP's filled with enough armor to make sure they have more HP than the most HP of any WP, but looks like I'll have to build the largest WP's possible! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. If the command center has two or three times more HP than other platforms there's almost no risk to lose it before other platforms.

[Fyron]

Note that I have expanded the Help documentation for the mod on its website:

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/

These will be in the next major release of the mod.

What suggestions do you have for new areas that could use a help file on?

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If only computers actually made real random calculations... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Computers random calculations aren't good but still you won't get 22 times the same result when you're randomizing numbers. Even when randomizing only two numbers.

[Asmala]

I think you should add a new section to your help file about the changes between stock and Adamant. Especially changes in settings.txt, like population growth check frequency, population damage resistance, cost of unmothballing etc.

[Asmala]

Does combat modifiers affect on troops? And do I recall correctly that it's only the damage to range 1 which matter in troop weapons, range, reload time or special damage type has no effect?

[Ed Kolis]

Yep, you're right, Asmala... which means that Shield Depleters (and Accelerators) are far and away the uber troop weapons; even in stock they far surpass ground cannons! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Asmala]

Bug: Siege Fortifications and Combat Command has same family number.

Is there any reasonable use for Siege Fortifications? You get much more HPs using armor, and it's even cheaper.

Shield depleters etc. should removed from troops, as the special damage type is ignored.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Does combat modifiers affect on troops?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but in an abstract and non-random way. Test out some combats comparing troops with CS invading a large planet (with no troops, just militia) with the same number of troops with no CS (and leave that extra space empty so as not to invalidate the results).

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Is there any reasonable use for Siege Fortifications? You get much more HPs using armor, and it's even cheaper.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... guess I should have looked over the Bio-Psych mod a bit more carefully before implementing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

If I have a mixed group of troops, is it the highest or lowest value in attack/defence which matter? Is attack bonus for invading troops and defence bonus for defence troops (sounds logical http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) or attack bonus when dealing damage and defence bonus when receiving damage?

[Fyron]

The best to hit value in the stack is used, just like all other unit stacks.

As for question 2, I believe it is the latter.

[ December 16, 2003, 22:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
I think you should add a new section to your help file about the changes between stock and Adamant. Especially changes in settings.txt, like population growth check frequency, population damage resistance, cost of unmothballing etc. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hows this?

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/Settings_Changes.html

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hows this?

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/Settings_Changes.html <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif More like that and it's much easier to start playing Adamant.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The best to hit value in the stack is used, just like all other unit stacks.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How the presence of Abomination saps the morale of friendly forces then? If there are any friendly forces they have better attack and defence values which are used.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Great. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif More like that and it's much easier to start playing Adamant. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Such as?

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Such as? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tech tree for each race would be splendid. It would help a lot to make overall view of the mod.

If you're new to the mod you'd start a new game with full techs and check through the components to see what's available. Then you notice a nice armor you'd like to research. But how you now what to research? First open the components.txt, find the component and check the tech requirements. Open the techareas.txt search the tech, notice it has one prerequisite, search it, notice it has again one prerequisite, search it and then you know what to research. Not so handy.

Of course I use SE4Modder which makes that much easier but I think most players don't use that.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
Is there any reasonable use for Siege Fortifications? You get much more HPs using armor, and it's even cheaper.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... guess I should have looked over the Bio-Psych mod a bit more carefully before implementing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What if the fortification was a Defense-penalty combined with EA ability?

[Fyron]

I don't think EA works on units? Especially not on WPs?

You can get a tech tree by starting a full tech game and exporting the tech list in the research window. It does not export everything that tech gives you, but it shows all tech reqs IIRC. And with technologies often named after what they are (I am very creative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), it works fairly well. I will probably make a real one at some point, but this will be good for now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 18, 2003, 08:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

List of all components giving combat bonuses would be great addition to the help section.

[Fyron]

How's this for a combat bonus listing? (http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/Combat_Bonuses.html)

[Fyron]

Additionally, I have exported both the tech areas and tech levels parts of the in-game tech tree and saved them as excel spreadsheet files. There are also comma separated text Versions in the zip. It is available here:

techtree.zip (http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/techtree.zip) <-- 117 kB

Note that if a tech area has multiple requirements, it has multiple lines in the files.

Not entirely sure just how useful this will be, but there it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Anyone want to figure out a way to make a program generate a graphical representation?

[ December 19, 2003, 20:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
How's this for a combat bonus listing? (http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/Combat_Bonuses.html) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just what I had in mind (Actually better than that, I didn't think about Tech Reqs). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Anyone want to figure out a way to make a program generate a graphical representation? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be a real challenge. I don't know a way you can make the tech tree clear even if you'd do it by hand. Let a program do it and I'd bet the result is messy, considering the amount of techs there are in Adamant.

[Fyron]

Well you can divide the number by 3 if you make a separate tree for each paradigm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Actually... once you do that, and discount the trees for the racial tech traits (which are identical for each paradigm), the number of techs in Adamant for each paradigm is only like 10-20% greater than the number in stock SE4...

[Fyron]

So the maximum allowable number of satellites in any sector is 5000... perhaps I should add a Siege Cannon that has a damage ratio on the order of 8 (APBs are around 2...) that can target only satellites that comes fairly late in the tech tree, for busting up super stacks? What do you think?

[Phoenix-D]

Don't think it would be required. A stack of 5000 sats would be a pretty big investment- anything used to kill them should be too.

Besides, you could only do that four times, since IIRC there is a maxium cap of 20,000 units for the entire game..

[Fyron]

Even 500 satellites is a killer stack... especially with the number of hit points you can give them with the armor available. Up to 32 hp/kT for the best armor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Fyron]

Whoops! It is 500 max instead of 5000... thanks ekolis! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So anyways... it still applies. 500 satellites is a huge defensive chunk... and with the range bonus they get...

[Ed Kolis]

Someone (maybe Matryx?) wrote a program to display tech trees, but they were a mess onscreen even with the stock data files, not to mention Adamant's techs with up to 4 prerequisites! However, it probably wouldn't be too difficult for me to put together something where you pick the technology you want in a combo box and the program traverses the tech tree to find all its prerequisites (edit: and their prerequisites, and so on - if you just wanted the tech's prerequisites you could find it the techarea.txt file in 15 seconds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ), which is pretty much what people want anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

edit: hey, this is my 1666th post! I am the devil plus a millennium! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 24, 2003, 18:04: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

[Asmala]

Is there accuracy bonus in satellite mounts? In stock game satellites are useless (in that purpose) without talisman because only 1 of 100 shots hit against trained ships.

[Fyron]

No... but ship and fleet training max at 15% (total).

[Asmala]

If fully trained ships have ECM, stealth armor, stealth shield, best engines and fanatic command satellites won't hit them. But that would require a huge researching first so it's not a problem.

[Fyron]

Satellites can have CS and Long Range Scanners, which cancel out ECM, leaving a +20% to hit net in favor of the sats. They can benefit from the various command centers the same as a ship can, so that cancels out. Training brings it to +5%. Fanatical Command brings it to -1%. Engines bring it to -11%. Then the stealth shields and armor give -30%, so -41%. Hmm... might need a Satellite Coordination Center or something to give the whole stack a nice bonus.

[ December 24, 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

Just make sure Satellite Coordination Center can't be researched very easily. It requires lots of researhing to get 10% bonus from engines and 30% from stealth shield and armor.

[Fyron]

I could put it at the end of the Sensors and Scanners tech trees (require both techs).

[Asmala]

I think that would be good. Then satellites would be useful throughout the game without being overpowering.

[Fyron]

*sigh* I am really getting annoyed with the target type options... why can there not be a simple Ships\Ftr\Sat\Drone option? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I made it so most weapons can't target planets. Unfotrunately, I had to use the targetting type of Ships\Sat, which means that they can no longer fire at drones or fighters... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Looks like it is back to Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

This new Version is going to be a doozey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Version 0.13.26 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Facility.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - Astral Panel wrongly mentioned "star" instead of "astral core."
2. Changed - Organic and Magic robo - miner components have new images.
3. Changed - Hybrid colony modules have new images.
4. Changed - Special damage mine charges have new images.
5. Fixed - Evolution Chamber now costs organics instead of minerals.
6. Fixed - Research Library now costs radioactives instead of minerals.
7. Changed - Removed "but it will decrease their value permanently" from the descriptions of robo - miners.
8. Changed - Anti-Matter Reactor and above now require tech levels in Resupply.
9. Changed - Solar Panels now generate 35 supplies per turn instead of 20.
10. Added - Dispel Evocation Magic, magic weapons which destroy other weapons.
11. Changed - Magic Ionic Disruptor is now Locomotion Disruption.
12. Fixed - Teleported Explosives now require level 1 of Teleportation, rather than level 2.
13. Changed - Magic Shield Depleter is now Thunder Lance and Magic Shield Disruptor is now Dispel Abjuration. Magic Shield Damaging Weapons is now Barrier Disruption.
14. Removed - Numerous temporary Magic weapon techs have been made unresearchable.
15. Fixed - Phased - Polaron Beams had only 1 tech area req instead of 2.
16. Added - Ethereal Lance, which skips normal shields for Magic races.
17. Added - Chaos Ripple, which skips armor and shields for Magic races.
18. Added - Mephit Summoning, which allows various seeking weapons for Magic Races.
19. Changed - Seeking Parasite now requires the new tech area Organic Seekers.
20. Added - Wildsphere Magic, the magic equivalent of the Wormhole Beam.
21. Added - Buffeting Winds and Ensnaring Winds, Magic equivalents of Tractor and Repulsor Beams.
22. Added - Disrupt Control, which can damage Master Computers for Magic races.
23. Updated - Updated SystemTypes.txt, QuadrantTypes.txt and StellarAbilityTypes.txt from FQM Deluxe 2.08.

[ January 18, 2004, 23:18: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

0.13.26 is released!

Details Page (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=369)

[Fyron]

At long Last, the Data, Lite, Full and Nebulae download files have been updated from 0.13.00 to 0.13.26. *sigh* I miss that T1 line... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

Lets say I made it so that you can only stick 2 of each type of robo miner on any particular vehicle (so you can have up to 2 mining each resource on a ship or base, for 6 maximum possible, though not in the same resource type). Keep in mind that remote mining does not decrease asteroid values at all. How many racial points would you be willing to pay for a trait that allows you to put 4 of each type on a vehicle, thus potentially doubling your remote mining profits?

[ January 20, 2004, 06:05: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[eorg]

nothing :-) i never used remote mining http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif this is why you should not ask me to answer :-P

[Ed Kolis]

Not much... ships are practically useless for remote mining since they cost so much maintenance, so only bases and satellites are viable. The only advantage bases have is that you can get more out of each asteroid field, but with the plenitude of asteroid fields in Adamant, I doubt that will be much of a problem anyway. So satellites are probably the way to go... and you can only fit one miner on a satellite anyway! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Paul1980au]

Id say 300 racial points to implement the ability to fit more remote miners on satelites and ships. This offset might be enough for the gains - that said what about a rising maintence costs ie 10% after 20 miners, 20% after 40 miners to put a cap on the benefits gained from having the extra remote miners on board ?

[Fyron]

I think you are misinterpreting the effects of plentiful asteroids... they mean that you can get 17 times as many resources from remote mining as you can in stock from mining the asteroids, and doing so does not decrease their value at all...

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
Id say 300 racial points to implement the ability to fit more remote miners on satelites and ships. This offset might be enough for the gains - that said what about a rising maintence costs ie 10% after 20 miners, 20% after 40 miners to put a cap on the benefits gained from having the extra remote miners on board ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would require using several different families of each component, with a 10 per vehicle restriction each. Then, you need one of those families have no maint. incrase, the other families to have 10% maint. increase. Now, you can add 10 of the first family for no increase in maint., then up to 10 of the second family for 10% increase, then up to 10 of the third for 20% maint. increase, and so on. It would get rather complicated...

[Paul1980au]

Ok point taken - just putting out some ideas ignore them if they are no good - would like to see something with the racial points though. Take away the rising maintence costs with each new unit.

Seperate them and then see if they can be worked with.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

That would require using several different families of each component, with a 10 per vehicle restriction each. Then, you need one of those families have no maint. incrase, the other families to have 10% maint. increase. Now, you can add 10 of the first family for no increase in maint., then up to 10 of the second family for 10% increase, then up to 10 of the third for 20% maint. increase, and so on. It would get rather complicated...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">would take no more than an hour to set up and write out.

[Combat Wombat]

Just finished playing my first PBW turn ever!

I took over the open space in Adamant 011 and I just finished my turn.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

it's nice, trying something new.

uh, unless you try to bang your head against the wall.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
would take no more than an hour to set up and write out. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I was refering to extreme complication of use... it would probably take about 10 minutes at most to set up...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I was refering to extreme complication of use... it would probably take about 10 minutes at most to set up...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i don't have that usefull thing known as a 'sense of time'.

don't think it would be that complicated. only problem i can see is it would clutter up the list of comps.

[BBegemott]

Psionic Ship Traininig Facility I description:
"Ships in this system will improve by 2% each turn up to 2%(only one facility per planet effective)"
Question:
If I build one Psionic Ship Traininig Facility I per planet in all planets of a system, will the effect be added up? I mean will the ships be trained at the rate of 20% up to 20% each turn (I assume I build 10 such facilities on different planets)?

[Captain Kwok]

Besides bases and satellites, ships in FQM type maps can make decent enough returns on asteroids to make them practical - so I think Fyron's suggestion to limit to two of each type would be a good step especially considering that mining asteroids will not decrease their value.

I'd pay at least 500 racial points for double that, maybe more if I was aware of its full potential.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by BBegemott:
Psionic Ship Traininig Facility I description:
"Ships in this system will improve by 2% each turn up to 2%(only one facility per planet effective)"
Question:
If I build one Psionic Ship Traininig Facility I per planet in all planets of a system, will the effect be added up? I mean will the ships be trained at the rate of 20% up to 20% each turn (I assume I build 10 such facilities on different planets)? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No. Only the best system facility is used in the entire system.

About remote miners, I think 2 per vehicle is not enough... there is no way to make a space station miner profitable or a ship profitable with just 2 of each type.

[Captain Kwok]

I think you are right about the profitability of two. I keep think Atrocities STmod - but that's a bit different. What about 3 for normal races and 5 for the bonus trait?

[Fyron]

The cheapest possible base a Physical race can make, with the cheaper variety of C&C comps, comes out to 1650 min, 5200 org, 475 rad. This has maintenance costs of 165/520/47. Add 2 robo farmers, 2 robo miners and 2 robo rad ext. It now costs 5650/5400/1575, with maintenance of 565/540/157. At a 100% value asteroid, it produces 1200/1200/1200, which means it is still fairly profitable.

Now lets look at a ship. Take a Light Frigate, with enough engines to go speed 3. It has 12 fusion engine IIIs and only 6 fusion reactors, so can only go a range of 2700 / (12*16) = 14 sectors before it runs out of supplies. You can certainly tweak its engine / reactor ratio to get longer range, but it makes it take a lot longer to get some mining done, reducing profits. This leaves room for exactly 2 mining components. Robo mineral miners brings the cost to 3780/1970/2685, with maintenance of 1058/551/751. So it costs 2360 resources total in maintenance per turn, and makes at best 2400 resources from 200% value asteroids. Now certainly you can make use of planets with moons, but it is more profitable to colonize them if possible. This is about the cheapest miner you can get with 2 robo miners. Lets look at one with 6 miners at level 3. It is a cruiser with 19 engines and 12 reactors, so 2 movement per turn. Cost is at 10440/4960/5095, with maintenance at 3027/1438/1477. It can make 3200 of each resource per turn at a 200% value asteroid. No minerals profit, really, though decent rads and orgs profit. Clearly, ships are not very good for remote mining with 2 miners per ship. Now lets try 3 per ship. Same cruiser. It can only mine 2 types now, so lets pick 3 min and 3 rad. Cost is now 10940/4760/5345, with maint at 3172/1380/1550. It produces 4800 min and 4800 rad at a 200 value asteroid. Only 2400 min and 2400 rad at a 100 value asteroid. So at best, total resource profits are 3498. With 100 value asteroid, profits are -1302. Mining with ships requires high valued asteroids. Ship mining is still not a good option. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Perhaps you can increase the yield of the remote miners?

[Fyron]

Version 0.13.28 of Adamant Mod has just been released! It features several new racial traits, as well as changes to the costs of Religious and Psionic traits. You can download it here: Adamant Patch 0.13.28 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=372). Remote Mining is still under consideration.

Version 0.13.28 - 24 January 2004:
Files Altered: Components.txt, EmpireNames.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt
1. Changed - Basic Psionic Capacity now costs 300 points. All Psionic Discipline traits cost 50 fewer points.
2. Changed - Deeply Religious now costs 350 points. All Religious Ethos tratis cost 50 fewer points.
3. Added - Low Gravity Homeworld racial trait, which lowers ship movement by 1 point and gives back 1500 racial points.
4. Added - Metabolist Gear, an enhanced Version of Riot Gear available to races with the Psychometabolic trait, which has 10 hp and does 5 damage in combat.
5. Added - Disorganized resource storage traits.
6. Fixed - Mechanoid Labor Force incorrectly referenced planets instead of systems in the ability descriptions.
7. Added - Various new empire names.

[Atrocities]

You should post a link to all the new components your using. (Display page or something like that.)

[Fyron]

Like these?

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/screenshots.html

Scroll to the bottom to the Ships section.

[Atrocities]

Man this mod is a hell of a lot of fun Fyron. Even without good SP AI I am still enjoying it a lot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

So when can we expect a new Version? I am half way through one of my small games now, and kickin butt. No surprise, the AI has no clue on what to research. LOL.

[Fyron]

When I get enough free time to finish 0.13.31 and generate the next Adamant mod PBW game turns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Fyron]

Version 0.13.32 has been released! This Version requires Gold Patch 4, Version 1.91.

This will be the final patch in the 0.13.xx line. I am freezing the mod into this state for the remainder of the PBW beta test games games. I will continue to work on the mod, but the updates will not be used for those games. There are things I wish to do that break savegame compatibility. Of course, if critical game-stopping bugs are discovered, I will release a new 0.13.xx patch for this game to use to fix it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Download (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=381)

Version 0.13.32 - 25 February 2004:
Requires: SEIV Gold Patch 4, Version 1.91
Files Altered: Components.txt, Facility.txt, IntelProjects.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - Psychotropic Drugs III required Experimental Psychology 2 instead of 3.
2. Changed - Corrosive Clawed Appendage now has Roman Numeral of 0 instead of 1.
3. Added - Heavy reactors, which are 10x the size and power of regular reactors. They get 10% bonus to do economy of scale.
4. Changed - All Solar Collectors now produce 75 more supplies per turn than before.
5. Fixed - Xentronium Armor tech area had Num Tech Reqs set to 3 instead of 4.
6. Fixed - Energy Dampener tech area had Num Tech Reqs set to 2 instead of 3.
7. Changed - Nucleon was using the wrong image.
8. Changed - Components now only appear on the relevant vehicle types. No more engines appearing on mines!
9. Changed - Medical Bays now produce 50 research points.
10. Changed - Robo Miners are now limited to 4 per vehicle.
11. Changed - Siege Fortifications are now 30 kT in size and have 900, 1200, 1500 structure. Also, they now cost 400, 600, 800 resources.
12. Added - Customs Bureau facility, which uses new Generate Point resource abilities. Requires Imperial Adminstration 1-3 tech area.
13. Added - System Capital facility, which provides 5-20% increase in all resource, intel and research production in a system, and counts as a spaceport. Requires Imperial Adminstration 4-7 tech area.
14. Changed - Political Practices tech group is now Imperial Affairs.
15. Added - Monster Counter - Intelligence project for Space Monsters.

[ February 26, 2004, 07:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Imperial]

How goes the AI for SP games?--

[AMF]

OK, so, if I wanted to jump in from a completely ignorant point of view, having never used/played Adamant before, is this the full Version I would use to start up a solitaire game? I think I'm at the point where I am unable to resist at least checking it out...

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Version 0.13.32 has been released! This Version requires Gold Patch 4, Version 1.91.

This will be the final patch in the 0.13.xx line. I am freezing the mod into this state for the remainder of the PBW beta test games games. I will continue to work on the mod, but the updates will not be used for those games. There are things I wish to do that break savegame compatibility. Of course, if critical game-stopping bugs are discovered, I will release a new 0.13.xx patch for this game to use to fix it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Download (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=381)

Version 0.13.32 - 25 February 2004:
Requires: SEIV Gold Patch 4, Version 1.91
Files Altered: Components.txt, Facility.txt, IntelProjects.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - Psychotropic Drugs III required Experimental Psychology 2 instead of 3.
2. Changed - Corrosive Clawed Appendage now has Roman Numeral of 0 instead of 1.
3. Added - Heavy reactors, which are 10x the size and power of regular reactors. They get 10% bonus to do economy of scale.
4. Changed - All Solar Collectors now produce 75 more supplies per turn than before.
5. Fixed - Xentronium Armor tech area had Num Tech Reqs set to 3 instead of 4.
6. Fixed - Energy Dampener tech area had Num Tech Reqs set to 2 instead of 3.
7. Changed - Nucleon was using the wrong image.
8. Changed - Components now only appear on the relevant vehicle types. No more engines appearing on mines!
9. Changed - Medical Bays now produce 50 research points.
10. Changed - Robo Miners are now limited to 4 per vehicle.
11. Changed - Siege Fortifications are now 30 kT in size and have 900, 1200, 1500 structure. Also, they now cost 400, 600, 800 resources.
12. Added - Customs Bureau facility, which uses new Generate Point resource abilities. Requires Imperial Adminstration 1-3 tech area.
13. Added - System Capital facility, which provides 5-20% increase in all resource, intel and research production in a system, and counts as a spaceport. Requires Imperial Adminstration 4-7 tech area.
14. Changed - Political Practices tech group is now Imperial Affairs.
15. Added - Monster Counter - Intelligence project for Space Monsters. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[gregebowman]

Unfortunately, alarikf, I thought you could have a solo game also, but I think it was Fyron who reminded me that it's only for multi-play as of right now. I wish I could play this solo, but I guess we'll both have to be patient.

[AMF]

OOh. I think I'm having a Deja Vu. I think I asked this exact same question a few weeks ago and had the same answer. I totally forgot about that...sigh. I'll blame old age.

...I'm in just too many games to join another PBW one though, so I'll just have to wait until I finish one before trying Adamant multiplayer...

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Unfortunately, alarikf, I thought you could have a solo game also, but I think it was Fyron who reminded me that it's only for multi-play as of right now. I wish I could play this solo, but I guess we'll both have to be patient. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Fyron]

The Space Monsters are the only race that has working AI. So, you could play a single player game with yourself and a monster race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AMF]

Well, at least that way I could get a feel for the mod to see if I wanted to jump into a multiplayer PBW game...

thanks,

Alarik


Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The Space Monsters are the only race that has working AI. So, you could play a single player game with yourself and a monster race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Atrocities]

Well I managed to get two things done for the A Mod.

I was able to get a working prototype for the Ticon Research file done, and a general_Ai research file.

I have not tested the General AI file yet, but I hope it works.

Now onto the Design Creation file.

[Fyron]

Keeping in line with your expectations, here is a tantalizing teaser:

Version 0.14.00 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Removed - Most temporary components for Organic and Magic races deleted.
2. Removed - Removed Global Death Ray.
3. Changed - Reorganized Components.txt.
4. Added - Added Magic and Organic Versions of racial weapons for Crystalline, Psionic, and Temporal weapons.
5. Removed - Drone technology is no longer available.
6. Added - Organic and Magic Weapon Platforms.
7. Changed - Inherent Regeneration tech area is now in tech group Racial Trait instead of Applied Evolution.
8. Fixed - Temple District V now has Tech Level Req 2 set to 1 instead of 2 and Number of Abilities set to 2 instead of 1.
9. Changed - Mineral Purifiers now require Cooperative Development instead of Bioconstruction.
10. Changed - Reduced max levels of theoretical technologies to appropriate values.

[Atrocities]

Hot damn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Nice update.

[Captain Kwok]

Why remove drones?

[Fyron]

Because Drones do not work very well in SE4. There are bugs where they all get launched in combat, wasting tons of them, as well as bugs in how they move, often not able to move as a fleet, so they go one by one.

[Fyron]

And another teaser:

Version 0.14.00 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Removed - Most temporary components for Organic and Magic races deleted.
2. Removed - Removed Global Death Ray.
3. Changed - Reorganized Components.txt.
4. Added - Added Magic and Organic Versions of racial weapons for Crystalline, Psionic, and Temporal weapons.
5. Removed - Drone technology is no longer available.
6. Added - Organic and Magic Weapon Platforms.
7. Changed - Inherent Regeneration tech area is now in tech group Racial Trait instead of Applied Evolution.
8. Fixed - Temple District V now has Tech Level Req 2 set to 1 instead of 2 and Number of Abilities set to 2 instead of 1.
9. Changed - Mineral Purifiers now require Cooperative Development instead of Bioconstruction.
10. Changed - Reduced max levels of theoretical technologies to appropriate values.
11. Added - Shadow Monsters for Illusion Mastery racial trait, which are fighters with -10% offense, +20% defense.
12. Added - Mirage Arcana for Illusion Mastery racial trait, which provide more boarding defense than regular Glyphs of Contingency.
13. Added - Prismatic Sphere weapons, which increase reload time of the enemy ship. Requires Illusion 1.
14. Added - Commune With Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait, which gives better Espionage projects.

[Fyron]

More teaser:

Version 0.14.00 - UNRELEASED:
15. Changed - Bomber now uses image FighterHuge. Heavy Bomber now uses image FighterMassive.
16. Added - Leaky armor components now make use of AI Tag 01, AI Tag 02, and AI Tag 03 abilities. Check Abilities.txt.
17. Added - Satellite Coordination Nexus equivalent components for Organic and Magic races.
18. Fixed - Megafluxer family overlapped with colony modules. It is now in family 5008.
19. Added - Large colony ships, which are twice the size of the colony ship.
20. Added - Roleplay Elements racial trait, for use in roleplay games.
21. Changed - Mercenary Contracts now requires the Roleplay Elements racial trait.
22. Fixed - Iron Armor tech area had Num Tech Reqs set to 1 instead of 2.
23. Fixed - Steel Armor, Mithral Armor, Adamantite Armor tech areas had Num Tech Reqs set to 1 instead of 3.
24. Changed - The ability of many tech areas to be removed at game creation has been changed.

[ March 07, 2004, 01:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Fyron]

Check out the brand new intro pic spliced together by David Gervais:

New Intro (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=random&cat=&pos=-14)

[ March 09, 2004, 01:23: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Paul1980au]

Why werent large colony ships standard in the normal game ? maybe fore Version 1.92 then !

[Fyron]

Because it is too late too add new stuff like that to the stock game...

[Asmala]

Isn't Massive Planetary Shield Generator quite useless? At least I can't think any good use for it because you can build one large weapon platform which has same damage resistance and costs only a twenth of generator.

[Fyron]

Thought I had added more levels to it. Odd. It does have 3x the shield points of the stock Version. You think that is not enough? Maybe with high tech levels you can get a WP with as much damage resistance. Starting tech levels you can get at most 1530 HP from a WP.

[ March 09, 2004, 14:59: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Asmala]

This is the ruin tech which I'm speaking, are you confusing it to Shield Array?

Where you get that 1530 HP, I'd think it's almost 2000 HP since the worst armor has dmg resistance/size ratio 10.

[tesco samoa]

yea it is rather weak.... Perhaps increase the shield by 4x its current rate... and add a few levels... ( Also add some additonal cargo on it ... to entice people to build it )

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
This is the ruin tech which I'm speaking, are you confusing it to Shield Array?

Where you get that 1530 HP, I'd think it's almost 2000 HP since the worst armor has dmg resistance/size ratio 10. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Massive Planetary Shield Generator generates 15000 shield points.

Lowest light armor has 8 hp and is 1 kT. 200 kT WP. 10 kT for comp core, which has 10 hp. 190 kT of light armor nets 1520 hp. Of course, this depends on your race type... Magic races have their weakest light armor at 8 hp/kt.

[ March 09, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ragnarok-X]

-> Where can i find the newest Version of the Adamant Mod ?

[Fyron]

The Adamant Mod website is: http://adamant.spaceempires.net/. You can find the latest full Version there. The (recently frequent) patches get posted here (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=20). The latest released Version is 0.13.32.

[Ragnarok-X]

thanks for the fast answer ^^

[Fyron]

Time for some more teaser!

Version 0.14.00 - UNRELEASED:
1-24. old teaser (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=007973;p=1#000 445)
25. Added - Organic Version of Repair Drone.
26. Changed - Mine Cloaking Devices now provide one higher level of Psychic Cloaking, due to the fact that they do not have any sort of mental signature to detect. The highest level of mine Cloaking Device leaves them undetectable to psychic scans, though still detectable to other forms of scanning.
27. Changed - All components and facilities with the ability Combat Modifier - System now state that they provide an offense bonus, rather than a generic combat bonus.
28. Changed - Space Yard Expansion Projects now cost 0 resources, with all of the cost going in the Space Yard Expansion itself. This is because you could add a SYEP to the build queue, then use the Upgrade All Facilities button to have it replaced with the SYE, thus cutting out any build cost from the SYEP itself. Now, if you first build the SYEP and then upgrade, it costs half as many resources, but there is an extra turn delay.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Massive Planetary Shield Generator generates 15000 shield points. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep, and I think that's not enough.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Lowest light armor has 8 hp and is 1 kT. 200 kT WP. 10 kT for comp core, which has 10 hp. 190 kT of light armor nets 1520 hp. Of course, this depends on your race type... Magic races have their weakest light armor at 8 hp/kt. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I used Physical race so it explains the difference. However it's easy to research Light Tritanium Armor IV which has 24 hp and is 1 kT. If you put large weapon platform full of those armors it's 14170 hp total and costs 1500 minerals. Not a big problem which I'd build. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

I could always make armor 10x as expensive as it is now to build... which I plan on doing anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What about the Shield Arrays? They make at most 20000 shield points, and cost less than half of a Massive Planetary Shield Generator to build.

What sort of shield values are you thinking of?

Keep in mind that if all your planet has on it is armor WPs, with no weapons, troop ships will waltz right up and drop troops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Might want to have at least one weapon on each.

[Asmala]

I could always make armor 10x as expensive as it is now to build... which I plan on doing anyways. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ant I thought you've always abuse stock armor useless... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Keep in mind that if all your planet has on it is armor WPs, with no weapons, troop ships will waltz right up and drop troops. Might want to have at least one weapon on each. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes of course weapons, but does the planetary shield prevent troop ships dropping troops?

Yes Shield Arrays are better but since the Massive Generator is a ruin tech I think it should be a more powerful. Perhaps 45k shields?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Yes of course weapons, but does the planetary shield prevent troop ships dropping troops?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No it does not. Troops can drop through shields.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Ant I thought you've always abuse stock armor useless... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh?

Yes Shield Arrays are better but since the Massive Generator is a ruin tech I think it should be a more powerful. Perhaps 45k shields?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ruins techs should not always be more powerful than everything else... Massive Planetary Shield Generators, like the Massive Ionic Disrupter and such, are meant more as early-mid game techs, not late game techs.

[tesco samoa]

well what do you feel should be able to take over a planet ?

And how long.

The shield generators protect the WP...

How long does 20k of shield strenght Last ?

As these items are more for mid and late game what do you need to take one out ?

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
Ant I thought you've always abuse stock armor useless... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you raise the cost of armor ten times then shields would be superior choice (unless shields are now underpowered).

[Fyron]

Keep in mind that 10 is just a number pulled out of a hat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Even if I did that, shields would still not be a superior choice, as they do not provide very complete protection, and can be gotten around through the use of Shield Depleters. A combination is best. Especially when you compare higher level shielding and non-leaky armor... which is actually more expensive per kT than shielding is. I am just considering the costs of the low level armors... play testing will show us what happens. Come on beta testers, get into wars!

[ March 10, 2004, 22:51: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Atrocities]

The one thing that would really benifit the Amod would be the inclusion of trans deminsional race. A race that used both temporal technology and a combination of magic / organic technology.

[Gargantua]

Help !
I installed the Adamant Mod Nebulae, and get this Error (http://www.kodp.net/Temp/error.jpg)

I have the Image Mod installed + latest patch.Thanks!

[ March 11, 2004, 14:34: Message edited by: Gargantua ]

[Fyron]

The AI is not yet programmed to work in the mod.

[Asmala]

Why all small ships have maintenance penalty due to large size? One would think 110kT scout isn't very large. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Because Physical ships are large, compared to Magic and Organic ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif If you notice, they are the biggest ships, and Organic ships are the smallest. Physical ships get a 12% maintenance penalty compared to Magic ships, and Organic ships get an 8% maintenance bonus compared to Magic ships.

[ March 11, 2004, 17:28: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ragnarok-X]

i downloaded your mod and the fixed AI files and just creates a new organic race. I just take a look at the first turn, and it looks amazing. I really like the research tree, it must have taken LONG time to build that one up.

Anyway i discovered that AI research error after the first turn, too

Is there any way i can play WITHOUT AI errors ? Is it possible to set the AIs to default scripts or something ?! I would really like to play your mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Not without modding the AIs to be compatible... want to get into AI modding? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif The Space Monsters have working AI, though they might pose a bit of a challenge. You could manually add one Space Monster race on AI, and use a large galaxy, to hopefully give you time to build up before you meet them... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So about Massive Planetary Shield Generators, what is the consensus guys?

Also, I have been considering adding a repair facility. How much repair do you think would be good for it to have?

[ March 11, 2004, 19:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ragnarok-X]

me again. I recently played with each race (magical, organic, physical) race for a few douzen turns.
I have to admit this mod is GREAT, just plain great.

I really enjoy playinng organic, since im playing versus AI i didnt had a good combat yet.
Once a planet rebelled and formed a new empire. I tried to invade it several times.
Invasions are really hard in this mod imho. I had like 300 troops (size 15kt - 20 kt) armed with tritanium 3 armor and lvl 5 laser guns and wasnt able to capture the planet, i had to combat 300-1000 militas though (the population was growing QUICK).

Anyway i discovered a few minor bugs, at least thats what i think, i.e. Organic race can build a drone from the beginning, which is called "inter contential ballistic missile" ?
Huh ? I think its drone thingy itself is okay, but you should consider changing the name. Organic races which have larvaes and queens wont build ballistic missles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Anyway, GO ON! I really like your mod, its the best i have played so far. I have to admit im waiting for the b5 mod since 2 or 3 years ...

I hope you will add more picks later, i really like the idea of certain "themes" -> ie. organic race pick with a "subpick" to give them regeneration modules and the like !

[Asmala]

I don't know about consensus but IMO 40k would be good, though I think I wouldn't built them anyway.

About repair facility, I'm not sure about exact numbers but it should repair a lot because repair bays are very cheap. Perhaps 80 components so it would be equal to 10 repair bays.

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X, glad you like the mod! ICBMs were thrown in there as a test idea. If they were to stay, I would add copies for Organic and Magic races. But I think I am going to just remove drones from the mod altogether, as they do not work all that well... :-\

[Fyron]

Crappy POS Dell... please delete this duplicate post!

[ March 17, 2004, 21:09: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Ed Kolis]

I say leave the massive planetary shields as they are; you get them for free when you colonize a planet (you don't even have to research Xenoarcheaology or Shields), so you could (and I have) get them when you have level 1 shields, making them much more powerful than your current shields (though also much more expensive!)

[spoon]

Originally posted by Asmala:
About repair facility, I'm not sure about exact numbers but it should repair a lot because repair bays are very cheap. Perhaps 80 components so it would be equal to 10 repair bays. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think though the advantage of being able to build this facility without a Spaceyard is a significant advantage to Repair Bays on ships. If you can build the repair facility in 1 turn, I'd give it maybe 10 comps. If it takes 3 turns, then 40 or so. If it costs as much as a spaceyard, then, yeah, 80 seems good...

[Ed Kolis]

Remember you can put multiple repair facilities on a planet, unlike with spaceyards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[CNCRaymond]

I recently played a game using this mod and I have to be honest about it. The mod is very impressive. A bit complicated trying to figure things out, but very impressive non the less. Excellent job on this Mod Mr. Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Please tell me which areas are the most complicated so that I can write more Help files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[BBegemott]

You like playing this mod? Then join Adamant 011 game on PBW! It has one open spot. However I have no contact with replacement empire, so I can't say what situation you will fall into http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Actually, they are organic! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

heh, if the free slot is organic and has the inherent regeneration, count me in. I really LOVE playing organic. The regeneration is not that important though ^^

[Fyron]

Adamant Mod has a new interface! Go here (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=90&mode=&order=0&thold=0) to learn more.

[Atrocities]

Fyron I have to be honest with you. I really do not think that it is possible to make a good Single Player Ai. There are so many varables that cause the Ai to do things and design things that may work in a low tech game, but totally are worthless in a high tech start game.

The Colony ships having two colony modules despite every conceivable setting to avoid this.

You can get one early tech start design to work, but because of the way many of the components are set up, engines and armor for example, in a high tech start these design become utter FUBAR.

I have spent nearly a month working on the design creation file and I am at wits ends.

There are simply to many things that confuse the AI and prevent it from designing ships the way it should be. Ask me what those are and all I can tell you is "everything does."

The AI is simply too stupid to take advantage of what this mod has to offer. It gets confused and designs things that are utterly useless.

Good luck.

[Fyron]

Why did you post this here, when you were saying this to me on MSN? I believe we worked this out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

hey about that multiplayer game, i would like to join and play that organic race, no matter how bad its position is ! Can someone give me a overview at how i can join the game ? (never played pbw/pbemail yet)

[BBegemott]

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
hey about that multiplayer game, i would like to join and play that organic race, no matter how bad its position is ! Can someone give me a overview at how i can join the game ? (never played pbw/pbemail yet) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1. go to PBW (http://seiv.pbw.cc/).
2. Register your PBW account.
3. Log in to PBW with your username.
4. Go to 'Games' to see all the games on PBW server.
5. Scroll to 'Adamant 011'. Enter it.
6. Find open spot and click the 'join game' button.
EDIT- Wait for Game master (Imperator Fyron) to approve your join.
7. Wait for password to arrive into your email that you gave to PBW server.
8. Download turn and see if psw is correct.
8a. If it is- do the turn, and send *.plr file to PBW by email or by direct upload.
8b. If it is not correct- ask Imperator Fyron to reset it.

Hope that helps.

[ March 21, 2004, 13:28: Message edited by: BBegemott ]

[AMF]

I have decided to take the plunge and try and get into a Adamant Game to not only have fun but see what the mod is all about. However, I really only want to play a technological ("standard") race - organics and magiks are not for me (at the moment at least). Is there such an opening in the adamant game at the moment?

thanks,

Alarik

[Fyron]

The only open slots are both the Ticon Consortium, in Adamant 011 (which Ragnarok-X is going to take) and in Adamant 010. The empires are both Organic races. It is, of course, entirely possible for you to create a new game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Once Geo gets 0.13.33 set up on PBW, the mod on PBW should remain constant, unless critical, game breaking bugs are found.

[AMF]

Well, I'll just bide my time until another game starts up. Haven't yet downloaded or played the mod at all, so I would want to get much more familiar with it before starting a game. And I'm pretty maxed out on running games at the moment..

thanks though. If an technological race opens up, I'll jump in...

Alarik

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
The only open slots are both the Ticon Consortium, in Adamant 011 (which Ragnarok-X is going to take) and in Adamant 010. The empires are both Organic races. It is, of course, entirely possible for you to create a new game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Once Geo gets 0.13.33 set up on PBW, the mod on PBW should remain constant, unless critical, game breaking bugs are found. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why did you post this here, when you were saying this to me on MSN? I believe we worked this out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I posted this I believe before we started chatting on MSN. If you like I can delete it.

[Moonsword]

I'm looking at the single-player AI for the Adamant mod. I have a workable fix for the multiple-colony components, but I'm running into other problems.

I can see your problems, though. Is there anywhere that gives any sort of tutorial for working with the AI files? I'm not entirely sure about some of the stuff I'm looking at in this file specifically, though the other files are pretty understandable.

[ March 22, 2004, 01:52: Message edited by: Moonsword ]

[BBegemott]

How many remote sat miners per sector are effective in Adamant?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by BBegemott:
How many remote sat miners per sector are effective in Adamant? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As in all SE4, you can have 3 satellites, one mining each resource. You can not have more than one satellite mining any particular resource.

Moonsword, as I linked on SE.net:

http://www.astmod.com/BasicModdingTutorial_1.txt

[ March 25, 2004, 16:58: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Captain Kwok]

What were the steps taken to avoid multiple additions of multiple-colony modules?

[Fyron]

Eh?

[Atrocities]

I had to set the Majority Component amount to 0 and it only adds two now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif