Adamant Mod Discussion Thread [Archive] - Page 3

Fyron

April 9th, 2004, 06:19 AM

Announcing the long anticipated release of Adamant Mod 0.14.00.

Major features of this update include:
- Major reordering of components with removal of temporary weapons.
- Shiney new interface, thanks to Kevin Arisa.
- Working AI!

That is right, the mod now has AI, so it can be played in single player! The AI is sort of kludged together, but it works. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Thanks to Atrocities for creating a set of AI files for the Ticon race for Adamant mod. 7 hours of beaten it with several sticks until it fit into shape for all the races in the mod. It is not pretty, but yeah... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The AI is not necessarily going to be extremely challenging or anything, but it is quite functional, making the mod quite playable in single player. So get playing!

It is recommended that you do NOT update a 0.13.xx or earlier Version to 0.14.00. This is because there are fewer races in 0.14.00 than in previous Versions. You should move all files in the Adamant\Pictures\System folders (save Starmap.bmp) into the stock Pictures\System folders, then delete your Adamant Mod (unless you need it for PBW games). Then, download Adamant Full.exe and do a fresh install.

Remember, the files are self-extracting RAR archives. Just point them to your SE4 folder, and they will be installed into an Adamant subfolder.

Mod Files:

Adamant Mod FQM 0.14.00 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=327) - Full mod + FQM Deluxe systems, 45 MBs. Do not download if you already have the FQM Deluxe system images! Download Full instead.

Adamant Mod Full 0.14.00 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=298) - All pictures save Image Mod and FQM Deluxe systems

Adamant Mod Lite 0.14.00 (=http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=299) - No pictures

Adamant Mod Data 0.14.00 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=300) - Data and Credits folders only.

Version 0.14.00 - 8 April 2004:
Files Altered: Abilities.txt, Compenhancement.txt, Components.txt, Events.txt, RacialTraits.txt, Settings.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Removed - Most temporary components for Organic and Magic races deleted.
2. Removed - Removed Global Death Ray.
3. Changed - Reorganized Components.txt.
4. Added - Added Magic and Organic Versions of racial weapons for Crystalline, Psionic, and Temporal weapons.
5. Removed - Drone technology is no longer available.
6. Added - Organic and Magic Weapon Platforms.
7. Changed - Inherent Regeneration tech area is now in tech group Racial Trait instead of Applied Evolution.
8. Fixed - Temple District V now has Tech Level Req 2 set to 1 instead of 2 and Number of Abilities set to 2 instead of 1.
9. Changed - Mineral Purifiers now require Cooperative Development instead of Bioconstruction.
10. Changed - Reduced max levels of theoretical technologies to appropriate values.
11. Added - Shadow Monsters for Illusion Mastery racial trait, which are fighters with -10% offense, +20% defense.
12. Added - Mirage Arcana for Illusion Mastery racial trait, which provide more boarding defense than regular Glyphs of Contingency.
13. Added - Prismatic Sphere weapons, which increase reload time of the enemy ship. Requires Illusion 1.
14. Added - Commune With Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait, which gives better Espionage projects.
15. Changed - Bomber now uses image FighterHuge. Heavy Bomber now uses image FighterMassive.
16. Added - Leaky armor components now make use of AI Tag 01, AI Tag 02, and AI Tag 03 abilities. Check Abilities.txt.
17. Added - Satellite Coordination Nexus equivalent components for Organic and Magic races.
18. Fixed - Megafluxer family overlapped with colony modules. It is now in family 5008.
19. Added - Large colony ships, which are twice the size of the colony ship.
20. Added - Roleplay Elements racial trait, for use in roleplay games.
21. Changed - Mercenary Contracts now requires the Roleplay Elements racial trait.
22. Changed - The ability of many tech areas to be removed at game creation has been changed.
23. Added - Organic Version of Repair Drone.
24. Changed - Mine Cloaking Devices now provide one higher level of Psychic Cloaking, due to the fact that they do not have any sort of mental signature to detect. The highest level of mine Cloaking Device leaves them undetectable to psychic scans, though still detectable to other forms of scanning.
25. Added - Reactors now have AI Tag 04. Cargo Bays now have AI tag 05.
26. Changed - Paradigm techs now have 15 levels, to function as a workaround for some AI issues.
27. Changed - Magic Mechanoid Bridge is now Mechanoid Spelljammer Helm, and is positioned after the Major Spelljammer Helm.
28. Changed - The first class of engines (Fission, Basic Astral Projection) are now 5 kT and provide 1 standard movement instead of 2.
29. Changed - Bridges now require 15 levels in the appropriate paradigm tech, so that they will be used over components such as Doomship Modules and Flag Bridges.
30. Changed - Solar Sails are now 12 kT instead of 60 kT. They generate between 2 and 4 movement points.
31. Changed - Lightning Bolts now use beam image 190 instead of the non-existant 43.
32. Changed - Pop modifiers have been smoothed out, so that increments for both Construction and Space Yard rate bonuses are in single percents, rather than 2 or 3. The threshholds for bonuses in the old system should still be present (eg: 8000 M population gives +34% Production, +51% SY Rate).
33. Added - Adamant Mod now has a new customized interface, courtesy of Kevin Arisa.
34. Added - Functional AIs for all races based off of Ticon AI by Atrocities.

Ragnarok-X

April 9th, 2004, 12:35 PM

do i have to upgrade to latest Version in order to continue playing adamant11 on PBW ?

AMF

April 9th, 2004, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by aiken:
Thank you Fyron, and what about new Adamant 14 pbw game? Any plans? Yes, please! Someone start a new Adamant Game! I've got dibs on one of the physical race slots...

Thanks,

Alarik

Imperial

April 9th, 2004, 03:53 PM

very exciting news-- glad that there are people on this forum that work together to help each other out. Will be playing soon))

Fyron

April 9th, 2004, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
do i have to upgrade to latest Version in order to continue playing adamant11 on PBW ? No. The PBW games will never use any Version of Adamant that is not 0.13.xx. It is impossible to load a savegame from 0.13.33 in 0.14.00 (for simultaneous move, sequential you can do it, but it will be horribly broken).

Originally posted by Imperial:
very exciting news-- glad that there are people on this forum that work together to help each other out. Will be playing soon)) People on this forum do nothing but help each other out. It is a very rare Online community.

As for a new PBW game, what settings would you like to see?

[ April 09, 2004, 18:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

April 10th, 2004, 01:48 AM

That's really splendid news Fyron!
Downloading it right now. And since STM is freezed at pbw-ready stage, I hope to make something usefull for Adamant now.

Thank you Fyron, and what about new Adamant 14 pbw game? Any plans?

Fyron

April 10th, 2004, 07:15 AM

*sigh* I miss SE3 modding... no frickin' AI to deal with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif There are apparently a few issues with the AI, so a patch is in order...

Fyron

April 10th, 2004, 09:21 AM

Due to several blunders in the AI files, a 0.14.01 patch of Adamant Mod is necessary. Install this over an install of Adamant Mod 0.14.00. It is recommended that you move EEE_AI_Strategies.txt (in Adamant\Pictures\Races\Eee\) to their backup folder, so as to avoid errors every turn from them.

Adamant Patch 0.14.01 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=396)

This AI is really, really pissing me off... Unless any more critical blunders crop up, this will probably be the final AI from me... If anyone wants to volunteer to make the AI better, it would be appreciated. I am sick of it.

Atrocities

April 10th, 2004, 10:12 PM

Thanks Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

April 10th, 2004, 10:27 PM

What existing ship sets do you think would make good sets to use as Magic races?

Atrocities

April 10th, 2004, 10:33 PM

You want Neo-Standard sets?

I would recommend the Pyron, Kaelon, Oxmal and 8472 but with a differnt Port and name.

Fyron

April 10th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Pyron and Oxmal are already used as Magic races. 8472 is more of an organic race than a magic race. And they are used already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Kaelon don't look very magical to me.

Atrocities

April 10th, 2004, 10:50 PM

I guess we could go through the SOTASY and Tesco's site and look at all the races to see if any match up.

You could also use the Gamilon. I could recolor the ships and find a different race portrait.

When the Robotech set is done they too would make a nice magic or orgainic set.

Fyron

April 11th, 2004, 10:18 PM

There is at least one opening in each of the following PBW games (all of which use 0.13.33): Adamant 010, Adamant 011, Adamant 012. Join up!

AMF

April 12th, 2004, 04:40 AM

Well...are any of them physical races, in decent shape, not involved in wars at the moment? Those are my opnly criteria, and if those are met, I'll join up!

thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
There is at least one opening in each of the following PBW games (all of which use 0.13.33): Adamant 010, Adamant 011, Adamant 012. Join up!

Fyron

April 12th, 2004, 10:20 PM

The player that was playing them dropped out due to RL reasons, so I think the empires should still be in a viable position. I am not sure what race type they are though. Some of them sound Organic from their names.

Imperial

April 13th, 2004, 10:03 PM

This is my first go at the mod--and i have a question--The Xenoarcheology research area--how does it work??-- does each level researched allow for a higher tech to be discovered?--sorry if its been asked before)

[ April 13, 2004, 21:04: Message edited by: Imperial ]

Aiken

April 13th, 2004, 10:36 PM

It allows you to research advanced ancient techs. IE: you've found ancient ruin with Massive Ionic Disperser, and it gives you the comp itself and tech area with the same name (only 1 level). But if you have Xenoarcheology 1 you'll also get additional tech - Massive Engine Destroying Weapons with 5 levels to research and more comps.
Some high grade unique techs (like Adamantium armor) require higher levels of Xenoarcheology.

[ April 13, 2004, 21:37: Message edited by: aiken ]

Imperial

April 13th, 2004, 10:41 PM

sweet--sounds like fun--thanks for the answer

Fyron

April 14th, 2004, 05:01 AM

Still looking for AI modders to help improve the AI...

AMF

April 16th, 2004, 03:57 PM

I'm not a modder by any stretch of the imagination but I intend to start a solitaire game with this mod perhaps over the weekend...do you want me to let you know how it goes, if the AIs do anything weird, etc...?

Thanks,

Alarik

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Still looking for AI modders to help improve the AI...

Fyron

April 17th, 2004, 02:56 AM

Sure. It is a public beta, afterall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

April 19th, 2004, 02:29 AM

Adamant Mod has been upgraded to 0.14.02. You can get the patch here:

Adamant Mod Patch 0.14.02 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=396)

Version 0.14.02 - 18 April 2004:
Note: Requires Facility Pack 12 and Component Pack 23 of Image Mod.
Files Altered: AI_Construction_Facilities.txt files, Components.txt, Facility.txt
1. Fixed - Fungal Torpedos now display the correct to hit bonus in their ability tags.
2. Fixed - Resupply Depots now have correct roman numerals.
3. Fixed - Level VIII radioactives facilies now require tech level 8 instead of 7.
4. Fixed - Radioactives Harvesting II is now Radioactives Harvester II.
5. Fixed - Long range scanning facilities now have correct roman numerals.
6. Changed - Concatenated descriptions of Corrosive Fungal Torpedos to get around SE4 ability tag text display once again.
7. Changed - Homeworld facilities now list the shields that they generate.
8. Added - Normal resource production facilities now use AI Tag abilities, so that the AI can build them instead of homeworld facilities.
9. Changed - Growth Chamber facilities now use image 481.
10. Changed - Many components use new images.
11. Changed - Viral Spore (the plague bomb for organic races) is now Plague Spore.
12. Changed - Spore Filter description now references Viral Spores instead of Mines.

Fyron

April 27th, 2004, 07:47 AM

So has anyone actually downloaded and played Adamant with its new working AI? Feedback has been rather sparse...

Aiken

April 27th, 2004, 09:45 AM

Ok, some feedback:

AI still wants to build at least one Homeworld cultural center per colonized system.

Possible reason: Change Population Happiness - System call in Mining, Farming, Refing Colony sections of AI_CF file. Cultural center is the only type of facilities with such ability availiable from the start.

I don't think it's critical, though it can be fixed.

The really big problem is large ships with unsufficient amount of engines, so they have only 1 MP (if drans-dimensional, then 2 MP).
Solution is very easy - make separate designs for every hull size (since each hull size require its own amount of engines per move) with different Minimum Speed values.

Btw, Fyron, I guess right that all AI races (at least of the same type) use the same scripts as a base or not?

Edit: one more - AI doesn't build Spaceports in the colonized system. Where is no call for such ability in AI_CF files (all races), though it should be, since very few AIs have Natural Merchants trait in EMPs.

[ April 27, 2004, 09:36: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

April 27th, 2004, 09:16 PM

Solution is very easy - make separate designs for every hull size (since each hull size require its own amount of engines per move) with different Minimum Speed values. That is not easy, it is a long, tedious headache... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Btw, Fyron, I guess right that all AI races (at least of the same type) use the same scripts as a base or not? Yes, as was indicated earlier in the post announcing the release of 0.14.00. All AIs use the same Design Creation, Facility Construction, Research, and... one other file... based off of the Ticon AI that Atrocities sent me. The related files are included in Backup folders for each race, which have their original files. I am not going to make all of them Adamant-compatible... far too much work for very little gain. This is why I keep asking for volunteers to help out with the AI...

Well first does anyone know why whenever I try to start a game, if it is not a 'Quick Launch' one, the game hangs whenever I try to make a new (or add a emp file) race! Also occasionally it will not load up at all (Strangly it seems that if I load up and close another mod just before I start it it will always load!)and a similar thing happens when I try to load a game.
NOTE: I have reinstalled the mod many times (new downloads, with a dialup connection )
I have no idea why this would happen to you. The mod has never crashed like this on me, and I have never seen SE4 crash like this, actually... I will check the file uploaded later, when I get a chance.

[ April 27, 2004, 20:36: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

parabolize

April 27th, 2004, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by XenoTheMorph:
Ok Some more feedback! (Well a very small amount http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Well first does anyone know why whenever I try to start a game, if it is not a 'Quick Launch' one, the game hangs whenever I try to make a new (or add a emp file) race! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Also occasionally it will not load up at all (Strangly it seems that if I load up and close another mod just before I start it it will always load!)and a similar thing happens when I try to load a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
NOTE: I have reinstalled the mod many times (new downloads, with a dialup connection http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Well feedback -
Early game all the empires I've encountered don't really have enough supply storage, especially attack ships which don't seem to have any at all (therefore 1MP & no weapons fire!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Though I do really like the tech(magic) tree so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(I really must use less smilies!!!) adamant is crashing for me to

Aiken

April 27th, 2004, 11:03 PM

A friend of mine also reported about crashes during empire adding and turn computations.
I'll ask him about details.

XenoTheMorph

April 28th, 2004, 01:40 AM

Ok Some more feedback! (Well a very small amount http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Well first does anyone know why whenever I try to start a game, if it is not a 'Quick Launch' one, the game hangs whenever I try to make a new (or add a emp file) race! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Also occasionally it will not load up at all (Strangly it seems that if I load up and close another mod just before I start it it will always load!)and a similar thing happens when I try to load a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
NOTE: I have reinstalled the mod many times (new downloads, with a dialup connection http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Well feedback -
Early game all the empires I've encountered don't really have enough supply storage, especially attack ships which don't seem to have any at all (therefore 1MP & no weapons fire!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Though I do really like the tech(magic) tree so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

(I really must use less smilies!!!)

[ April 27, 2004, 12:43: Message edited by: XenoTheMorph ]

Fyron

April 28th, 2004, 06:27 AM

Most odd... what sorts of settings are you guys getting crashes with?

XenoTheMorph

April 28th, 2004, 02:32 PM

Well Fyron,

The settings I use in the game are the standard quick start settings (whatever thoses are!) for Flora or (machinelike magic race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ). With these settings I sometimes (when first loading only, 2nd onwards is fine) get a hang (whole system freezes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ).

The rest of the time it hangs before I get a chance to set any settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . Either on the intro screen (always 20% strangely), or when opening anything that uses individual races stats (i.e. new race choosing or emp adding).

If this helps anyone I once had a similar (though much less severe) problem with Atrocites Star Trek Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif , that was caused by a single corrupt Bmp in the Tholians folder (found by a process of elimination). Though this only happened when loading games that had the Tholians in or Viewing the Tholians Emp files (sometimes).

Hmm now thats an idea what about using the Tholian race for an extra magical shipset??? Does look reasonably magical http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I've even tried to reinstall SEIV to solve this but no luck! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ April 28, 2004, 13:34: Message edited by: XenoTheMorph ]

Fyron

April 29th, 2004, 02:17 AM

That solution to the AST mod problem sounds like a huge amount of work... :'S Perhaps I will just re-compress the mod and reupload instead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

May 1st, 2004, 07:38 AM

Ok, I could not replicate ANY crashing problems with the mod, using the file I had uploaded. Maybe you could try downloading the Lite file and extracting it overtop the install from the Full file, and see if that makes any difference?

XenoTheMorph

May 1st, 2004, 10:21 AM

Will do Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Knowing my luck it is going to be an artifact of my whole system!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks for checking for the likely suspects. Lets see if I can solve the problem (Hmm lets see if installing different copy of windows in another partition solves the prob, if so time to reinstall my system!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif )

Fyron

May 3rd, 2004, 12:06 AM

0.14.03 is now ready for download. The AI works much better than in previous Versions. There is no explicit patch file for this Version, as making that is a pain when there are so many AI files patched... so, you can use Adamant Lite as a patch, which contains no images whatsoever. It can patch any Adamant Version 0.14.00 or higher to 0.14.03. Check sig for links.

Note: Do NOT install this over your 0.13.34 Version if you are in an Adamant PBW game, as it will NOT be used for them.

Version 0.14.03 - 2 May 2004:
Files Altered: AI_Construction_Facilities.txt files, AI_Research.txt files, AI_Planet_Types.txt files, default AI_General.txt files
1. Changed - Completely revamped AI research paths.
2. Changed - Created new AI facility construction files that should hopefully work better. Loosely based off of Aquilaeian and United Floral files.
3. Changed - Created new AI planet type files, loosely based off of the United Floral file.
4. Fixed - Generic AI general files now have proper racial point balances.
5. Added - AI_File_Copy.bat to Pictures\Races folder, useful in adding generic AI files to all races at once. Created by Will^.
6. Added - Viewer2.2.html file to Pictures\Races folder, useful in viewing all of a race's vehicles at once. Created by Andr�s Lescano.

[ May 02, 2004, 23:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 02:34 AM

Version 0.14.04 is released. This update features some AI fixes, new unit armor with 1/2 the hit points of Light Armor, and various cosmetic updates to the display of the tech tree in-game (through different Groups for many tech areas).

There is no explicit patch. However, you can use these two files as a patch:

Adamant Mod Lite 0.14.04 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=299&ttitle=Adamant_Mod_Lite#dldetails)
Adamant Mod Race Pack 0.14.04 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownloaddetails&lid=403&ttitle=Adamant_Mod_Race_Pack#dldetails)

Lite contains all of the data and AI updates. Race Pack contains new ship set images added since the 0.14.00 Version. So far, it only contains the Manai ship set. If you already have this ship set installed, you do not need to get the Race Pack.

Version 0.14.04 - 4 May 2004:
Files Altered: AI_Research.txt files, CompEnhancement.txt, Components.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - Krill now have an AI_General.txt file.
2. Fixed - Cellulose Reinforement is now Cellulose Reinforcement
3. Changed - Membrane Shells tech area is now Membrane Layers.
4. Changed - Chitin Shells tech area is now Chitin Exoskeleton.
5. Changed - Cellulose Shells tech area is now Cellulose Exoskeleton.
6. Changed - Psilocybe Appendage ability descriptions now mention viral spores instead of mines.
7. Removed - There was a second tech area entry for Contagion. The one in the wrong place is changed to Contagion REMOVED.
8. Fixed - Pyron and Manai AI_General.txt files had improper calls for Physical Race instead of Magical Race.
9. Changed - Adamantium Armor can now only be placed on Ships and Bases.
10. Changed - Units can no longer use regular light armor. Instead, they have new light armor with one half the amount of Tonnage Structure.
11. Changed - Weapon platform component mounts are now 1/2 cost, rather than 1/4 cost.
12. Changed - Vehicle technologies are now in Vehicle Engineering, Vehicle Adaptation or Vehicle Conjuration group, depending on race type.
13. Changed - Armor technologies are now in Armor Engineering, Armor Adaptation or Armorsmithing group, depending on race type.
14. Changed - Propulsion technologies are now in Propulsion Science, Propulsion Adaptation or Propulsion Magic group, depending on race type.
15. Changed - Sensor, Scanner and Combat Support technologies are now in Martial Technology, Martial Adaptation or Martial Magic group, depending on race type.
16. Changed - Resource, research and Space Yard technologies are now in Infrastructure Development group.
17. Added - Light Weapon Mount, which halves all stats of a weapon except damage, which is reduced to 40%. Can only be used on ship hulls up to level 6 in the ship construction tech areas (Heavy Frigate, Great Spawn, Heavy Longship).
18. Removed - Mines and Infestation Spores tech areas had extraneous tech reqs.
19. Changed - Mine Sweepers now require their own tech areas, separate from the basic Mines tech.
20. Fixed - Cooperative Development now has 10 levels instead of 1.
21. Added - Electromagnetic Screening tech areas, which provide Active and Passive EM cloaking of up to level 3 for mines with far less theoretical tech research.
22. Changed - Necromatic Weapons is now Necromantic Weapons.
23. Changed - Updated the Readme with better Installation information.

[ May 05, 2004, 01:38: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

May 5th, 2004, 03:12 AM

Fyron, I am downloading your most recent Adamant and all sounds fascinating. I do have some free time if you have any opportunities on your team.
I would like to lend a small hand if you have anything for me?

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 03:23 AM

I could use help on the AI... currently, they all use the same Design Creation, Research, Facility Construction, and... Vehicle Creation? (the one that controls how many of each design they build) files, with slight modifications to the designs for the 3 race paradigms. And it isnt pretty... they work, but yeah... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I left the original files in the Backup folders, though many of the stock shipsets have TDM modified files in there... feel free to use stock AI files if you would prefer.

The research files probably just need a bit of tweaking, as the important techs are researched in a reasonable order. They have all the racial traits (such as temporal and psionic) in them, so that races with those traits will be able to use them. Incidentally, the Facility Construction files call for most of the racial trait facilities already. They are very generic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The design creation files... are not too hot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you can solve the problem of the AI adding 2 colony modules but not wanting to add just one (with different design, just the "must have" line used), without having to add special AI techs or change the current system of scale mounted colony module, that would be really cool.

For AI Tag usage, look in Abilities.txt. I have recorded which components and facilities currently use each of them in there.

AI_General files are all taken care of, unless there was a typo somewhere...

Other than the files mentioned above, all the races use pretty much unmodified files, as they dont really need to be modified much for a mod (Speech, for example http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

JLS

May 5th, 2004, 03:32 AM

Will do.

I will need to become re-acclimated to your formats and then get cracking on the AI.

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 03:34 AM

Jubilation!

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 07:00 AM

I have been contemplating adding a research station component to Adamant (for bases only). Trying to determine how much research it should make and how much it should cost... Basically, how many resources would be traded for research each turn. Any ideas?

Aiken

May 5th, 2004, 07:16 AM

Umm, but where is already Medical Bay and analogues. Though in my opinion it's overpriced. Maybe.
Anyway, considering that race have default maintanence rate, 2000-5000 resources [lvls dependent] (M+O+R) of maintanence paid per component per turn for 200-500 [lvls dependent] research (or intel) points is not a worst idea.
To summarize: 1000 res for 100 points. M/O/R ratios can be differen for different pardigms (ie race types).

[ May 05, 2004, 06:21: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 07:20 AM

Well Medical Bays have research just as a bonus, not meant as actual practical research components... they are expensive because you hardly ever need to build them, so why not? I don't like the idea of cheap medical escorts able to cure any plague. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 05, 2004, 06:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

May 5th, 2004, 07:25 AM

Sorry I edited my post.
From 2000 res for 200 points at lvl 1 to 5000 res for 500 points at ... lets say lvl 5.

Edit: well it's just round numbers afterall, they can only give a basic scale.

Edit2: taking into attention 90% maint reduction for bases and their size of 1000 kt minimum, the component should be rather expensive and have a size about 200 kt.

[ May 05, 2004, 06:38: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 07:39 AM

Hmm... something to keep in mind is where these resources come from. Is it more productive to build mining facilities and then use those resources to build research stations, or is it more productive to just build research labs on the planet in the first place?

taking into attention 90% maint reduction This is more like a net maintenance reduction of 60%, given that the base maintenance rate is 100, rather than 25, in Adamant. Ships have 75% maintenance reduction, bases 90%. This keeps base maintenance paid about the same, but allows teh Maintenance Aptitude trait to function much more logically, by reducing maintenance paid, rather than base maintenance rate. 1% means you pay 1% less maintenance, not 24% instead of 25%, which is more than a 1% decrease (10% decrease, in fact).

[ May 05, 2004, 06:42: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

se5a

May 5th, 2004, 08:08 AM

ohhh! I get it, transfering resorces to reserch points.... (duh you probibly said that to)

yea, you probibly want it to be better to build facilitys rather than bases.
this is going to make race creation more interesting...

Aiken

May 5th, 2004, 08:14 AM

The main problem I can see, is not maintanence but investments into the construction of such bases: 20000 resources x 5 comp per base = 100000 resourses (asuming 10:1 scale). That is quite expensive and takes long time for non-HW planets to build. To workaround this you can add positive Modified Maintenance Cost ability to this component and make them cheaper. Will the positive and negative values substract from each other, or not?

Atrocities

May 5th, 2004, 07:24 PM

I have to say that this is a very enjoyable mod to play now that the AI can actually play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Nice update and I look forward to more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

May 5th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by aiken:
The main problem I can see, is not maintanence but investments into the construction of such bases: 20000 resources x 5 comp per base = 100000 resourses (asuming 10:1 scale). That is quite expensive and takes long time for non-HW planets to build. To workaround this you can add positive Modified Maintenance Cost ability to this component and make them cheaper. Will the positive and negative values substract from each other, or not? Yeah, build times are an issue... The maintenance values will stack. I am not positive if they just add linearly, or if they multiply, with one increasing maintenenace first, then the other decreasing it. Anyone want to test it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Aiken

May 6th, 2004, 05:39 AM

It seems to work this way:
Final_maint_cost = Empire_Start_Maint_Cost + Initial_hull_maint_reduct + N*Mod_maint_cost_from_comp1 + M*Mod_maint_cost_from_comp2 +...

IE, Comp1 has Modified Maintenance Cost=20; Comp2 has Modified Maintenance Cost=-5; Comp3 has Modified Maintenance Cost=10. Hull has Modified Maintenance Cost=-90.
In Adamant, final maintanence for this hull with 4 Comp1, 2 Comp2 and 3 Comp3 will be 110%: (100-90+4*20+2*[-5]+3*10=110).

[ May 06, 2004, 04:50: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

May 7th, 2004, 05:54 AM

Empire_Start_Maint_Cost + Initial_hull_maint_reduct This can't be true... if it were, stock game bases would have 25 - 50 = - 25% maintenance, which they do not... it is 12.5%.

Aiken

May 7th, 2004, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Empire_Start_Maint_Cost + Initial_hull_maint_reduct This can't be true... if it were, stock game bases would have 25 - 50 = - 25% maintenance, which they do not... it is 12.5%. <hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Sorry, I see my mistake now. This formula should be correct:
Final_maint_cost = Empire_start_maint_cost * (1+ [Initial_hull_maint_reduct + N*Mod_maint_cost_from_comp1 + M*Mod_maint_cost_from_comp2 +...]/100)

edit: fixed the error again.

[ May 07, 2004, 06:58: Message edited by: aiken ]

Atrocities

May 7th, 2004, 11:10 AM

No wonder I can never win a PBW game. I am playing against rocket scientists and number loving uber geeks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

tesco samoa

May 7th, 2004, 05:36 PM

AT why does Women and food come in Last for your interests..... ? Do I smell Geek http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

May 7th, 2004, 09:59 PM

Ok I do not know why, but for some reason Parabolize was able to get the mod to work by installing an old 0.13.xx Version, then applying the 0.14.04 Lite and Race Pack files as a patch... most bizarre. This leades me to supsect that some people's systems have problems with the intro pics... if the mod causes SE4 to lock up or crash on you, try deleting the Intro.bmp pics. Tell me if this does not work...

parabolize

May 7th, 2004, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Ok I do not know why, but for some reason Parabolize was able to get the mod to work by installing an old 0.13.xx Version, then applying the 0.14.04 Lite and Race Pack files as a patch... most bizarre. This leades me to supsect that some people's systems have problems with the intro pics... if the mod causes SE4 to lock up or crash on you, try deleting the Intro.bmp pics. Tell me if this does not work... It has become more bizarre. I unpacked Adamant FQM.exe in windows gave it a differnt name and moved the Space Empires IV Gold/Adamant0.14.04/Pictures/Game folder into My Documents folder. Then I put in the 0.13.xx Pictures/Game folder and it loaded without crashing. Next I added the 0.14.04 files one by one back into the 0.14.04 and it never crashed. Dont ask me why this would change anything but it did. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Fyron

May 8th, 2004, 12:21 AM

Very, very strange...

Atrocities

May 8th, 2004, 01:12 AM

14.04 loads fine for me?

XenoTheMorph

May 8th, 2004, 10:03 AM

I myself cannot get my Win98 system to run it without major hassel and workarounds. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

But I have been able to install another windows Version on another partition and it works fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .I think I will have to finally find out where my Win98 CD is, so I can reinstall it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Fyron

May 9th, 2004, 01:30 AM

Very strange... it works flawlessly on XP and 2000 for me. I have no opportunity to test it on any other OS, but I see no reason why it would cause problems on other OS that any other mods or SE4 itself would not cause...

Caduceus

May 9th, 2004, 03:41 AM

Stupid addition to add to your mod info (and probably everyone else doing a mod) is to make sure they get the latest updated image files. I downloaded the full Version, but still am downloading the other large meg files by dial-up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I know I am living in the stone age, but that's what happens when you live in a house built in the thirties http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Wildcard

Fyron

May 9th, 2004, 04:59 AM

The mod does say that it uses the latest Version of the image mod in the readme. It is very important to read readmes before you try to play a mod...

[ May 09, 2004, 04:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

May 9th, 2004, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Very strange... it works flawlessly on XP and 2000 for me. I have no opportunity to test it on any other OS, but I see no reason why it would cause problems on other OS that any other mods or SE4 itself would not cause... The problem can arise from wrong expectation of se4 about bitmap header. I've heard that bitmaps generated under NT5 has a slightly different header format (generated not according to BITMAPHEADERINFO) and in some circumstances it can cause errors on 9x machines. I'd recommend to open every bmp in the pictures\game folder with Paint and then save it as bmp again. I'm not sure that'll help, but at least you can try.

Fyron

May 9th, 2004, 07:47 PM

If they were made in a program other than Paint, that should not be an issue. Running Photoshop on XP or 2000 should not result in Photoshop saving the bitmaps with different headers. It would still save them with whatever headers Photoshop puts there. This has not been a problem with Image Mod bitmaps created under XP, for example. It might be worth a shot though if nothing else works to get the mod running... probably only the folders with the Intro pics would need to be bothered with, given how Parabolize got the mod to run...

Aiken

May 9th, 2004, 08:01 PM

Well, I opened the intro.bmp in paint on my W2k machine and resaved it - same header, but when I opened the same bmp in IrfanView and resaved it, I've got different header. That's why I posted this.

Caduceus

May 10th, 2004, 03:49 AM

Hrm...

Having a problem with Adamant, I think.

I dinked around with it Last night, after loading image files and patches and such and I had no problems. Tonight, it freezes every time I load it, either on the INTRO screen, when loading, resuming or trying to generate a game.

I am running 1.91, Win98.

I am loading through the SE4 launcher program.

Quadrant Mod runs without difficulty.

Scandisk and Norton find no problems. Emptied TEMP directory.

Every time I load Adamant, it changes the Path file, even through the launcher, so I can't restart the basic game without launching Adamant.

But the more frustrating thing is the locking up, which freezes the entire system. Any advice?

Wildcard

Fyron

May 10th, 2004, 06:43 AM

Try what Aiken suggested. Open the Intro pics in MS Paint and save them.

XenoTheMorph

May 10th, 2004, 07:10 PM

O.K. Guys

I no longer have any problems with Adamant when running Win98. I'm not sure if it was 'resaving' the intro.bmp or not but I can say it was an issue with the BMP's. I just did a batch conVersion of all Bmp's in Adamant to Bmp's (resaves them ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Just remember to turn overright on OR get them copied to another location and move them, a bit safer ) using Irfanview. The header it uses seems perfectly fine. (it only took 30-40 seconds, for ~1700 pics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif )

I thank you all for your tracking down of the issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (esp Aiken!)

[ May 10, 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: XenoTheMorph ]

Caduceus

May 11th, 2004, 02:29 AM

Even for a lunk-head like me, resaving the BMPs through Paint corrected my problem.

Thanks everyone!

Wildcard

Aiken

May 12th, 2004, 08:59 PM

se.net is down so I'm posting this here:

1. Same issue as with Assault Command (erroneous tech dependency) is also true for Combat Command and Infiltration Command (organic and magic Versions) - they depend of Troops tech, which is physicals only.

2. It's still possible to exploit 660 kt colony mount issue to create extrafast colonisers: compare 13 Engines Per Move for Destroyer/Greater Ravager against 24 Engines Per Move for Large Colony Ship/Large Seedling.

Fyron

May 19th, 2004, 12:20 AM

Version 0.14.05 of Adamant Mod has been released! This Version features a new racial trait, Mobile Industrialists, as well as various bug fixes.

If you have a Version 0.14.xx installed, you can use the Race Pack and the Lite files as a patch. If you have crashes during loadup with the mod, you will need to get Full to fix the problem with image headers for some of the images.

Version 0.14.05 - 18 May 2004:
Files Altered: Components.txt. RacialTraits.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Added - Manuevering Thrusters for stations, which provide 1 combat movement.
2. Added - Magic races were missing an afterburner type component line for fighters. They now have them.
3. Changed - Mines charges are now twice as expensive as they were before.
4. Changed - Normal and AP mine charges now do one half the damage they did before.
5. Added - Mobile Industrialists racial trait, which gains access to ship-borne space yards that are one half the normal size.
6. Fixed - The graphics for Organic and Physical Repair Drones were swapped.
7. Changed - Code for Sailing Ship changed to SlS.
8. Changed - Satellite mounts are now restricted to the same set of weapon families as base mounts.
9. Changed - Small Sensory Input Nodes now use image 1596.
10. Fixed - Roman numeral of Gate Collapser III is now 3 instead of 2.
11. Fixed - All Laser Beams now use beam image 19.
12. Fixed - Rune of Free Astral Movement III now uses image 677 instead of 692.
13. Fixed - Space Yard facilities now upgrade correctly when the Hardy Industrialists trait is selected.
14. Fixed - Cargo facilities now upgrade correctly when the Advanced Storage Techniques trait is selected.
15. Fixed - Ship and Fleet Training Facilities now upgrade correctly when Master Tacticians or Master Strategists are selected, respectively.
16. Added - Organic and Magic Versions of the Ground Combat Doctrine tech area. Appropriate components require these new tech areas.
17. Fixed - The images for Shadow small fighters are now named correctly.
18. Fixed - Intro.bmp now has standard header, rather than Windows 9x-unfriendly one.
19. Fixed - Unit armor can now be mounted with 5x, 10x, 100x scale mounts.
20. Changed - Lasers, IR Lasers, PPBs, and Ethereal Lances now use different beam images.
21. Fixed - Organic and Magic robo miner satellite components now use the correct images.
22. Fixed - Second set of Psychic Combat Sensors for Magic races now require Magic Sensors tech area, rather than Sensors.

Aiken

May 20th, 2004, 11:38 AM

Fyron, what's Psionic Discipline - Metacreation for? I can't find any reference of this trait with component or facility, or anything.

Fyron

May 20th, 2004, 06:49 PM

It is for looking pretty... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif No really, I could never figure out how to properly implement it in SE4... one of these days...

XenoTheMorph

May 20th, 2004, 07:07 PM

Hi Fyron,

I've just been looking through the normal armours for magical races and I think I've found a few typos/bugs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

1)"Ironwood Structural Supports" are depedant on tech "Iron armour" Not "Ironwood Armour"

2)"Iron Structural Supports" Roman numeral is "II" not "III". Also "Flowsteel Structural Supports" Roman numeral is "III" not "IV".

3)"Light Flowsteel Armor III" (for units) has 2 x the damage resistance that it should (should be 1/2 Ship Version Not same)

4)"Light Wooden Armour" (for units) should have the costs for "I" & "II" And "III" & "IV" swapped, since these pairs are identicle except for organics cost (it is higher for higher armour, but more advanced armour should be better AND/OR cheaper not neither!)

Also for the other Psionic Disciplines (other than "Metacreation")

Name := Psychometabolism
Maximum Level := 6 (Should only be 2!)
Since only levels 1 & 2 are used.

And "Psychoportation" has no effects just like "Metacreation"

By the way Adamant is way cool!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif it's up there with the Star Trek Mod!

tesco samoa

May 22nd, 2004, 08:21 PM

hey what mount works for weapons on the light mech troops ??? I cannot see any that work ( for adm010

Fyron

May 22nd, 2004, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
hey what mount works for weapons on the light mech troops ??? I cannot see any that work ( for adm010 You have to research Troop Weapons (assuming you are Physical).

Fyron

May 25th, 2004, 07:39 AM

So now that you have had a chance to play the mod in single player mode, what are your thoughts on it? Any bugs to report? Potential problems? Speak up! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

tesco samoa

May 25th, 2004, 08:33 PM

yea... but howcome i can place weapons on the 5k Version ?

thats just silly

Fyron

May 25th, 2004, 08:50 PM

What? 5k Version of what? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

XenoTheMorph

May 26th, 2004, 07:07 PM

Well I have been looking around and the only other typos/bug I've seen are -

a) "Psychic Receptors VI" have roman numeral "III" instead of "VI".

and

b) The Ukra-Tal have an Ice Homeworld but have "Rock World Natives" selected for a racial trait.

Looking forward to the next update and everyone elses ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

May 26th, 2004, 07:13 PM

4)"Light Wooden Armour" (for units) should have the costs for "I" & "II" And "III" & "IV" swapped, since these pairs are identicle except for organics cost (it is higher for higher armour, but more advanced armour should be better AND/OR cheaper not neither!) I do not see the problem? I costs 8, has 3 HP. II costs 7, has 3 HP. It gets cheaper with the tech advance. III costs 8, has 4 HP. More expensive but stronger. IV costs 7 and has 4 HP. It again gets cheaper compared with III.

Fyron

May 27th, 2004, 06:35 PM

As stated previously, you need to research the Troop Weapons technology, or the equivalent if you are not a physical race.

Ed Kolis

May 27th, 2004, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by XenoTheMorph:
b) The Ukra-Tal have an Ice Homeworld but have "Rock World Natives" selected for a racial trait.Maybe they originated on a rock world which had a sudden climate change... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Aiken

May 27th, 2004, 08:29 PM

Yeah, rocks turned into the frozen water http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

tesco samoa

May 28th, 2004, 01:14 AM

The 5kt size troop... can use the weapons with a mount but the 10kt cannot..

Fyron

May 28th, 2004, 05:19 AM

Since I am evil, I give you a teaser instead of a patch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif :

Version 0.14.06 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Events.txt, TechArea.txt, UkraTal_AI_General.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Changed - The following tech areas now have a paradigm requirement so that they do not show up in the Expected Results for races that can not research them: Hyper Optics, Hyper Optic Nerves, Telescopes, Neutron Weapons, Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Capture, AP Explosive Warheads, Organic Neutron Weapons, Organic Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Infestation, AP Explosive Spores, Dispel Evocation, Spelljammer Capture, AP Explosive Glyphs.
2. Changed - Planet Rebellion events now all have a time delay.
3. Added - Two Covert Ops Leak events added, one on Catastrophic severity and one on High severity.
4. Fixed - Various typos in Events.txt fixed.
5. Fixed - Ironwood Structural Supports now require tech area Ironwood Armor instead of Iron Armor.
6. Fixed - Iron Structural Supports and Flowsteel Structural Supports roman numerals increased by 1.
7. Fixed - Light Flowsteel Armor III for units now has 14 structure, rather than 28.
8. Fixed - Psychic Receptors VI now has roman numeral 6 instead of 3.
9. Fixed - Ukra-Tal now take Ice World Natives trait instead of Rock World Natives.
10. Changed - Psychometabolism tech area now has max level set to 2 instead of 6.
11. Changed - Summoning Circle Expansion - Radioactives facilities now renamed to Summoning Circle Expansion - Mana. Their names are now not too long for the in-game display.
12. Changed - Hardy Industrialist space yard facilities now cost 12000 resources instead of 10000.
13. Fixed - No remote mining components mention anything about decreasing asteroid/planet value (as they do not do so).
14. Fixed - Remote Farming Teams now mention that organics are teleported back to the empire, not minerals.
15. Fixed - Remote Mana Refining Teams now have more clear descriptions.
16. Changed - Codes for Organic vehicles now make more sense.
17. Changed - Bio-Interceptor is now just Interceptor.
18. Added - All fighters, mines, satellites and weapons platforms now have descriptions.
19. Changed - Infantry now has code of INF, so as to prevent any overlap with Interceptors.
20. Added - Mercenary ships now have the same descriptions as their non-mercenary counterparts.
21. Changed - Research cost of Polymeric Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
22. Changed - Research cost of Advanced Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
23. Changed - Research cost of Cellulose Exoskeleton raised from 30000 to 45000.
24. Changed - Research cost of Fibroin Weave raised from 60000 to 90000.
25. Changed - Research cost of Steel Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
26. Changed - Research cost of Mithral Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
27. Changed - Research cost of Adamantite Armor raised from 50000 to 90000.
28. Changed - Tritanium Armor is replaced with Cerametal Armor.
29. Removed - Removed "Standard" from the description of various armor tech areas.

narf poit chez BOOM

May 28th, 2004, 05:24 AM

Have you been learning from Baen??

Fyron

May 28th, 2004, 05:27 AM

Umm... no. I am continuing my long-standing tradition of posting teasers for my mods... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

tesco samoa

May 28th, 2004, 12:34 PM

Adamant Mod 0.13.34 Fyron can you post a link to its download please thanks

XenoTheMorph

May 29th, 2004, 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> 4)"Light Wooden Armour" (for units) should have the costs for "I" & "II" And "III" & "IV" swapped, since these pairs are identicle except for organics cost (it is higher for higher armour, but more advanced armour should be better AND/OR cheaper not neither!) I do not see the problem? I costs 8, has 3 HP. II costs 7, has 3 HP. It gets cheaper with the tech advance. III costs 8, has 4 HP. More expensive but stronger. IV costs 7 and has 4 HP. It again gets cheaper compared with III. <hr /></blockquote>Oops! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I must have got mixed up. Sorry about that!

Fyron

May 29th, 2004, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Adamant Mod 0.13.34 Fyron can you post a link to its download please thanks The links to the old Versions can be found in the game forums on SE.net. Also, they can be found in the same Downloads Category they have always been in over on SE.net. 0.13.34 (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=401)

Fyron

May 29th, 2004, 09:20 PM

Surely _somebody_ else must have played the mod and has comments...

Fyron

May 31st, 2004, 02:16 AM

Adamant 0.14.06 is released! You can find it at the Adamant Mod Website, located on SE.net, linked in my sig. As always, the Lite file makes a good patch. Race Pack is not necessary to upgrade if you have 0.14.05 installed. If you have 0.14.04 or earlier, it is recommended that you download the Race Pack as well as Lite to patch your Version of the mod.

Version 0.14.06 - 30 May 2004:
Files Altered: Abilities.txt, AI Tags.txt, Components.txt, Events.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, TechArea.txt, UkraTal_AI_General.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Changed - The following tech areas now have a paradigm requirement so that they do not show up in the Expected Results for races that can not research them: Hyper Optics, Hyper Optic Nerves, Telescopes, Neutron Weapons, Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Capture, AP Explosive Warheads, Organic Neutron Weapons, Organic Weapon Overloading Weapons, Ship Infestation, AP Explosive Spores, Dispel Evocation, Spelljammer Capture, AP Explosive Glyphs.
2. Changed - Planet Rebellion events now all have a time delay.
3. Added - Two Covert Ops Leak events added, one on Catastrophic severity and one on High severity.
4. Fixed - Various typos in Events.txt fixed.
5. Fixed - Ironwood Structural Supports now require tech area Ironwood Armor instead of Iron Armor.
6. Fixed - Iron Structural Supports and Flowsteel Structural Supports roman numerals increased by 1.
7. Fixed - Light Flowsteel Armor III for units now has 14 structure, rather than 28.
8. Fixed - Psychic Receptors VI now has roman numeral 6 instead of 3.
9. Fixed - Ukra-Tal now take Ice World Natives trait instead of Rock World Natives.
10. Changed - Psychometabolism tech area now has max level set to 2 instead of 6.
11. Changed - Summoning Circle Expansion - Radioactives facilities now renamed to Summoning Circle Expansion - Mana. Their names are now not too long for the in-game display.
12. Changed - Hardy Industrialist space yard facilities now cost 12000 resources instead of 10000.
13. Fixed - No remote mining components mention anything about decreasing asteroid/planet value (as they do not do so).
14. Fixed - Remote Farming Teams now mention that organics are teleported back to the empire, not minerals.
15. Fixed - Remote Mana Refining Teams now have more clear descriptions.
16. Changed - Codes for Organic vehicles now make more sense.
17. Changed - Bio-Interceptor is now just Interceptor.
18. Added - All fighters, mines, satellites and weapons platforms now have descriptions.
19. Changed - Infantry now has code of INF, so as to prevent any overlap with Interceptors.
20. Added - Mercenary ships now have the same descriptions as their non-mercenary counterparts.
21. Changed - Research cost of Polymeric Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
22. Changed - Research cost of Advanced Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
23. Changed - Research cost of Cellulose Exoskeleton raised from 30000 to 45000.
24. Changed - Research cost of Fibroin Weave raised from 60000 to 90000.
25. Changed - Research cost of Steel Armor raised from 20000 to 30000.
26. Changed - Research cost of Mithral Armor raised from 40000 to 60000.
27. Changed - Research cost of Adamantite Armor raised from 50000 to 90000.
28. Changed - Tritanium Armor is replaced with Cerametal Armor.
29. Removed - Removed "Standard" from the description of various armor tech areas.
30. Added - Metacreationist Enclave facilities, which are Space Yard Expansion-like facilities that apply to all resources, as well as generating a small amount of resources.
31. Changed - Boarding Parties now explicitly list their boarding defense values.
32. Added - Metabolist Boarding Parties, Metacreationist Boarding Parties, and combined Metabolist/Metacreationist Boarding Parties for the appropriate Psionic racial traits. Metabolists get 20% increased Boarding Attack ability. Metacreationists get 20% increased Boarding Defense ability.
33. Added - Aerial Race racial trait, which provides fighters with a 20% defense bonus and a 10% offense bonus. This trait only works for Physical and Organic races, not Magic races.
34. Added - Small Combat Sensors and Small ECM components now require 10 levels of Paradigm tech.
35. Changed - First 5 levels of Long Range Scanner facilities removed. Remaining 6 levels given Long Range Scanner - System ability, as the Long Range Scanner ability does not work on a facility. Facilities given Combat Modifier - System ability ranging from 0% to 5%.
36. Changed - Orbital Fighters now require Fighter Cockpit and Fighter Life Support.
37. Changed - Fighter Cockpit and Fighter Life Support components now require level 1 paradigm tech, rather than Fighers tech.
38. Added - Combat Sensors components now have AI Tag 06 ability.
39. Added - ECM compononents now have AI Tag 07 ability.
40. Changed - Religious Talisman is now Talisman of Zeal. It now only requires Death Ethos, Life Ethos, and War Ethos, all at level 6.
41. Changed - Fate Talisman is now Talisman of Fate.
42. Added - Efficiency Algorithm, Talisman of Zeal, and Talisman of Fate now have dummy AI ability tags.
43. Added - AI Tags.txt to keep track of all dummy tags used in the mod. Abilities.txt no longer lists the items using the AI Tag ## abilities. Note that Space Monster races should never be given any technologies other than their Monster Tech area.
44. Changed - Small ECM now has bonus of 5/10/15 rather than 10/20/30.
45. Changed - Fighter afterburners now provide attack and defense bonuses of 5/10/15/20.
46. Changed - Organics and Radioactives costs of Alter of Healing components reversed.
47. Changed - Minerals and Radioactives costs of Medical Bay components reversed.
48. Added - Sick Bay components, which have low Boarding Defense ability and high hit points. Designed as a defense against Neutron Cannons and Mental Shredders.
49. Changed - Self - Destruct Device is now 30 kT and has sturcture of 60. Also, its description no longer makes any reference to engines. It is also 3 times as expensive as it used to be.
50. Fixed - Mine Sweeper V now requires Mine Sweeping instead of Mines.

Fyron

May 31st, 2004, 02:51 AM

Anyone have any ideas how the mastery of the dark arts of Necromancy would benefit your empire?

XenoTheMorph

May 31st, 2004, 03:13 PM

Hmmm,

Well I have no idea if this can work but maybe a weapon that does little damage but has a negative supply usage (drains life energy and transfers it to your ship!), or reasonable damage and a little negative supply? Any idea if this would work? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Not sure about non weapon components but for facilites maybe make races with advanced necromantic ability have slightly better Intel generation (maybe even on the standard Rogue Training Camp), its not so bad to kill someone before interrogating them or even during http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

And of course better Troops (the non monster ones, they are already dead!) and boarding parties (higher tonnage to destroy)

Fyron

May 31st, 2004, 10:39 PM

I really should wait longer before releasing patches... Teaser to follow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Version 0.14.07 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Demeanors.txt, EmpireNames.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, Settings.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt, Empire_Setup.html, Settings_Changes.html
1. Added - Mass Animate Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait. It allows the Animation Necropolis, which increases reproduction in the system by 2 to 10 percent.
2. Removed - Space Commissar is no longer available.
3. Changed - Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 30000 research instead of 15000.
4. Changed - Advanced Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 45000 research instead of 15000.
5. Removed - Bio-Morphic Science tech area is no longer available. Abominition troop components do not work as originally intended.
6. Changed - Temporal Technology, Crystalline Technology, and Mechanoid Technology are now in group Racial Applied.
7. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Magic) tech area now requires Mithral Armor instead of Wooden Armor.
8. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Organic) tech area now requires Fibroin Weave instead of Membrane Layers.
9. Changed - Ramming damage to both the attacker and the target reduced by 50%.
10. Changed - AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 170 to 250.
11. Changed - AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 250 to 300.
12. Changed - Home System Percentage Value With No Spaceport raised from 25 to 50.
13. Changed - Created Storm Maximum Obscuration Level raised from 2 to 5.
14. Changed - Settings_Changes.html in the Help folder updated to reflect changes to Settings.txt.
15. Fixed - Typo in description of Organic Race trait.
16. Added - Empire_Setup.html in the Help folder now lists Mobile Industrialists and Aerial Race racial traits in the Racial Trait Index.
17. Added - Warrior Spirit Binding components and Spirit Binding tech area available to Necromancy Masters. These components function like Neural Combat Nets, allowing all ships in the fleet to function with the experience of the best ship in the fleet.
18. Changed - Soldier Gear and Metabolist Gear (Magic) now use image 1736 instead of 271.
19. Changed - Riot Gear and Metabolist Gear (Physical) now use image 925 instead of 271.
20. Fixed - Metabolist Nucleon now uses image 312 instead of 271.
21. Changed - Monster Collars now use image 1710 instead of 270 or 271.
22. Changed - Code for Soldiers vehicle is now SLD instead of BT.
23. Fixed - Some ability descriptions for Space Monster ships now make more sense.
24. Changed - Space Monster vehicles are now named "Space Monster" instead of "Monster" to prevent overlaps with Magic race fighters.
25. Changed - Friggen HUGE Beast is now Colossal Space Monster. Big Space Monster is now Large Space Monster. Giant Space Monster is now Huge Space Monster.
26. Added - Space Monster ships now have descriptions.
27. Changed - Huge Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 6 instead of 2.
28. Changed - Colossal Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 7 instead of 6.
29. Changed - Basic Bridge now uses image 1. Bridge now uses image 252. Flag Bridge now uses image 251.
30. Changed - Flag Bridge is now in family 7210 instead of 5.
31. Added - Flag Bridge components for Organic and Magic races.
32. Changed - Added and removed various entries in Demeanors.txt.
33. Added - Added various fantasy based names to EmpireNames.txt.

Fyron

May 31st, 2004, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by XenoTheMorph:
Well I have no idea if this can work but maybe a weapon that does little damage but has a negative supply usage (drains life energy and transfers it to your ship!), or reasonable damage and a little negative supply? Any idea if this would work? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Sadly, it would not work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Not sure about non weapon components but for facilites maybe make races with advanced necromantic ability have slightly better Intel generation (maybe even on the standard Rogue Training Camp), its not so bad to kill someone before interrogating them or even during http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .I was considering giving them a better Planetary University facility, with slightly improved research capabilities. Nothing beats being able to tap into the knowledge of countless dead researchers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They do have some better intel projects already.

There are some things added in the latest development Version. Check the previous post to find them.

[ May 31, 2004, 21:43: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

XenoTheMorph

June 1st, 2004, 09:06 PM

Fyron,
A heads up about a little problem I noticed. I was just using the latest Version (0.14.06) and the 'Raiding Parties V' on one of my designs got upgraded to 'Metabolist Raiding Parties II' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . A slight problem since their not as good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . But besides that small niggle I like them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Hmm I've just got 'Psionic Raiding Parties I' and they have replaced MBP II's which are better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Also the description of the Organic construction ability of the 'Metacreationist Enclave I' has a duplication in it.

[ June 01, 2004, 20:20: Message edited by: XenoTheMorph ]

Fyron

June 2nd, 2004, 01:26 AM

I assume you have the Metacreationist and Psychometabolist traits? Otherwise there are some major bugs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Well that is what happens when all raiding parties are in the same family. In a future Version (0.15.00), I will be able to arrange them so that upgrades should not place worse parties in place of better ones by mixing the various levels around. I could not do this in this Version because inserting the new raiding parties in the middle of the file would break savegame compatibility.

XenoTheMorph

June 3rd, 2004, 01:53 AM

Ahh now it all makes sense! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

June 26th, 2004, 11:20 PM

Adamant 0.14.07 released!

This Version features a brand new missile system.

You can get the mod from the Adamant Mod Web Site (http://adamant.spaceempires.net/). The Adamant Mod Lite file will suffice as a patch.

Version 0.14.07 - 26 June 2004:
Files Altered: Components.txt, Demeanors.txt, EmpireNames.txt, Facility.txt, RacialTraits.txt, Settings.txt, StellarAbilityTypes.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt, Empire_Setup.html, Settings_Changes.html
1. Added - Mass Animate Dead tech area for Necromancy Mastery racial trait. It allows the Animation Necropolis, which increases reproduction in the system by 2 to 10 percent.
2. Removed - Space Commissar is no longer available.
3. Changed - Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 30000 research instead of 15000.
4. Changed - Advanced Political Indoctrination tech area now costs 45000 research instead of 15000.
5. Removed - Bio-Morphic Science tech area is no longer available. Abominition troop components do not work as originally intended.
6. Changed - Temporal Technology, Crystalline Technology, and Mechanoid Technology are now in group Racial Applied.
7. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Magic) tech area now requires Mithral Armor instead of Wooden Armor.
8. Changed - Xentronium Armor (Organic) tech area now requires Fibroin Weave instead of Membrane Layers.
9. Changed - Ramming damage to both the attacker and the target reduced by 50%.
10. Changed - AI Human Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 170 to 250.
11. Changed - AI Computer Mega Evil Empire Score Percent raised from 250 to 300.
12. Changed - Home System Percentage Value With No Spaceport raised from 25 to 50.
13. Changed - Created Storm Maximum Obscuration Level raised from 2 to 5.
14. Changed - Settings_Changes.html in the Help folder updated to reflect changes to Settings.txt.
15. Fixed - Typo in description of Organic Race trait.
16. Added - Empire_Setup.html in the Help folder now lists Mobile Industrialists and Aerial Race racial traits in the Racial Trait Index.
17. Added - Warrior Spirit Binding components and Spirit Binding tech area available to Necromancy Masters. These components function like Neural Combat Nets, allowing all ships in the fleet to function with the experience of the best ship in the fleet.
18. Changed - Soldier Gear and Metabolist Gear (Magic) now use image 1736 instead of 271.
19. Changed - Riot Gear and Metabolist Gear (Physical) now use image 925 instead of 271.
20. Fixed - Metabolist Nucleon now uses image 312 instead of 271.
21. Changed - Monster Collars now use image 1710 instead of 270 or 271.
22. Changed - Code for Soldiers vehicle is now SLD instead of BT.
23. Fixed - Some ability descriptions for Space Monster ships now make more sense.
24. Changed - Space Monster vehicles are now named "Space Monster" instead of "Monster" to prevent overlaps with Magic race fighters.
25. Changed - Friggen HUGE Beast is now Colossal Space Monster. Big Space Monster is now Large Space Monster. Giant Space Monster is now Huge Space Monster.
26. Added - Space Monster ships now have descriptions.
27. Changed - Huge Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 6 instead of 2.
28. Changed - Colossal Space Monster now requires Monster Tech 7 instead of 6.
29. Changed - Basic Bridge now uses image 1. Bridge now uses image 252. Flag Bridge now uses image 251.
30. Changed - Flag Bridge is now in family 7210 instead of 5.
31. Added - Flag Bridge components for Organic and Magic races.
32. Changed - Added and removed various entries in Demeanors.txt.
33. Added - Added various fantasy based names to EmpireNames.txt.
34. Added - Space-Time Flux Weapons tech area, which allows Focal - Implosion Arrays.
35. Added - Strike Missiles, Hardened Missiles, Decoy Missiles, Phased - Polaron Missiles, Graviton Missiles, Longhorn Missiles and Chaff Missiles. Also added Organic and Magic Versions of said missiles.
36. Changed - Capital Ship Missiles are now Thermonuclear Missiles.
37. Fixed - Satellite remote mining components are now in a different family so that upgrading a ship will not replace remote mining components with satellite Versions.
38. Fixed - Fighter Versions of Clawed Appendages are now in family 10023 instead of 8761.
39. Changed - Gravitational Weapons tech area now costs 10000 instead of 5000.
40. Added - Magic Weapons - Sonic tech area for Magical races.
41. Changed - All references to mephits being "demons" have been replaced with "creatures" instead.
42. Changed - Seeking Parasites now require 100 supplies to fire, rather than 25.
43. Changed - Descriptions of Hyper Optics tech areas are now more precise.
44. Changed - Descriptions of Neutron Weapons tech areas now reference killing crew rather than damaging boarding parties.
45. Fixed - Several warp point abilities of the turbulent type had extraneous 0s, leading to 10x the intended damage.
46. Changed - Warp Point - Turbulence ability of 650 reduced to 150.
47. Changed - Warp Point - Turbulence abilities are now labeled as minor, moderate, or major damage.
48. Removed - Warp Points with the ability Sector - Sight Obscuration are non-functional.

[ June 26, 2004, 22:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

XenoTheMorph

June 28th, 2004, 01:27 AM

Wonderfull Fyron!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was getting worried when nothing was posted on this tread for such a long time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Aiken

July 2nd, 2004, 07:56 PM

35. Added - Strike Missiles, Hardened Missiles, Decoy Missiles, Phased - Polaron Missiles, Graviton Missiles, Longhorn Missiles and Chaff Missiles. Also added Organic and Magic Versions of said missiles. Just realized that I have to rewrite all the bits of AI ship design to include new missile system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Fyron

July 2nd, 2004, 08:10 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Well at least they will be stronger now, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Aiken

July 2nd, 2004, 08:16 PM

Probably. But my fingers will be stronger in typing for sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

July 30th, 2004, 03:42 AM

I am looking for new ideas on how to make the 3 race paradigms even more different from each other, to provide very different styles of play. Ideas anyone?

Loser

July 30th, 2004, 04:13 AM

Take something significant away from one of them, or from two or them. Something like Repair Space Yard Components Shields Resupply Depots Plats Troops Ship Capture the ability to target planets PDC or somethingYou could also giveo nly one of them each of the following: Fighters, Seekers, Drones.

Whatever you do, the fun part will be making it balanced after you cripple their poor afts.

Fyron

July 30th, 2004, 05:51 AM

Organic races already lack shields. Many of those things would be too much to take away...

XenoTheMorph

July 30th, 2004, 07:45 PM

Fyron,

you might want to check the Organic cost of 'Strike Parasites II' it is 2750 compared to 'Strike Parasites I' 200. Looks like you accidently added a zero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

August 4th, 2004, 01:10 AM

I plan on revamping armor costs. At the moment, I am thinking of making light armors cost 1 resource per hit point, and heavy armors cost 2 resources per hit point. This essentially makes 10 kT of light armor cost the same as 10 kT of heavy armor... Heavy armor (10 kT comps) provides a stronger defense, as a higher percentage of hits will hit the armor instead of an internal. Light armor (1 kT comps) provides 2x as many hit points, however. What do you think of my cost scheme? Should I make one class of armor more expensive per kT than the other?

In other news, here is a tentative listing of the 0.14.08 history log:

Version 0.14.08 - UNRELEASED:
Files Altered: AI_Design_Creation.txt files, Components.txt, Facility.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - War Talismans and Death Talismans are now in general group Religious instead of War Ethos.
2. Fixed - Prismatic Spray I is now Prismatic Sphere I.
3. Fixed - AI empires no longer add 2 colony modules to colony ships.
4. Changed - AI empires no longer add quantum reactors to any vehicle designs.
5. Fixed - Somehow the old problem of AIs building homeworld facilities on colonies had resurfaced. It is fixed, again.
6. Fixed - Organic Seekers tech area now has max level 10 instead of 5.
7. Fixed - Decoy Missiles were incorrectly in family 2111 instead of 2112.
8. Fixed - Strike Parasite II now costs 275 organics instead of 2750.
9. Changed - Crystalline Armor with Shield Generation From Damage ability is now only available to Ships and Bases. The unit Crystalline Armor with no such ability is available to all units except mines.
10. Changed - Halved the hit points of unit Crystalline Armor to bring it in line with normal unit armor.
11. Changed - Unit Crystalline Armor is now in family 7214 so as to prevent unintended upgrades from ship Crystalline Armor.
12. Fixed - Crew Quarters had "jealously" used in their descriptions instead of "jealousy."
13. Changed - AP Mine Charges now state that they bypass hyper-dense armor, rather than all armor.
14. Fixed - Shipyard Expansion - Radioactives facilities now cost 6000 secondary resources, rather than 4000.
15. Changed - Clawed Appendages now have the damage type Quarter Damage To Shields.
16. Changed - Gaian Presence facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
17. Changed - Religious shrine facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
18. Fixed - Entertainment Networks and Temple Districts now have negative Planet - Change Population Happiness abilities instead of positive ones, so they no longer increase anger, but instead decrease it.
19. Fixed - Applied Political Science now has 5 levels instead of 3.
20. Changed - Resource Manipulation tech area now requires Biology in addition to Chemistry and Physics.
21. Added - Theoretical techs must be researched before higher than level 1 in basic resource harvesting technologies can be developed. The race paradigm's primary resource requires one level, whereas the other two resources require 2 levels.
22. Changed - Light armor now costs as many resources as it has hit points. Heavy armor costs two times as many resources as it has hit points. Organic armors cost 50% extra, due to regenerative properties.

[ August 04, 2004, 04:24: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

August 5th, 2004, 04:31 PM

Not that I expect any response at all, but here goes...

Thinking of adding research labs for bases. They would probably start off trading resources for research at a 1:1 ratio (reasearch generation starting off the same as base maintenance), and eventually improving to 1:2 or so. Sound like too much, too little, or just the right amount? For example, you might have a 1600 minerals cost lab that generates 200 research. Bases have maintenance of 12.5%, so it would cost 200 minerals per turn. At max tech, it would cost 1600 minerals and make 400 research.

What do you think of the idea of adding the intel generation ability to all bridge type components, with an amount of 5 or 10 or so? It would represent a bit of added flexibility on behalf of the covert ops agencies by having more ships that they can send spies out on and such. Alternatively, the ability could be added to Crew Quarters, so that larger ships can carry more covert ops agents.

[ August 05, 2004, 15:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Ragnarok-X

August 5th, 2004, 07:04 PM

nice idea (had the same one), but still ressource generation from non-planets will not show up in the empire screen, which somehow sucks. Was the reason why i forget the idea and deleted it from my mod...

Ed Kolis

August 5th, 2004, 07:30 PM

I like those ideas, though I'd say go with the intel on bridges rather than crew quarters - small ships are MUCH more effective at passing by undetected than dreadnoughts, which makes up for the number of agents the DN could carry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

edit: btw, you know if those ex-nihilo resource generation abilities are affected by the appropriate racial traits or not?

[ August 05, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

JLS

August 5th, 2004, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Thinking of adding research labs for bases. They would probably start off trading resources for research at a 1:1 ratio (reasearch generation starting off the same as base maintenance), and eventually improving to 1:2 or so. Sound like too much, too little, or just the right amount? For example, you might have a 1600 minerals cost lab that generates 200 research. Bases have maintenance of 12.5%, so it would cost 200 minerals per turn. At max tech, it would cost 1600 minerals and make 400 research.
I also like your idea and 1600 to 400 research sounds good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 05, 2004, 19:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

August 5th, 2004, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
nice idea (had the same one), but still ressource generation from non-planets will not show up in the empire screen, which somehow sucks. Was the reason why i forget the idea and deleted it from my mod... Indeed. Research and intelligence points show up correctly though.

Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
edit: btw, you know if those ex-nihilo resource generation abilities are affected by the appropriate racial traits or not? I am fairly certain that, as with robo miners, they are not.

[ August 05, 2004, 20:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 12:45 AM

Trying to determine whether shield facilities make enough shielding or not... A Planetary Shield Array V makes 12500 shield points and costs 9k/3k/16k. A 200 kT Weapon Platform filled with Cerametal Armor I (starting armor tech on Medium start) has 1800 hit points and costs 975/0/0. The shield facility takes 8 turns to build, wheras you can easily build 2 WPs per turn. So that is 12500 hp in 8 turns for a shield facility, or 3600 x 8 = 28800 hp in 8 turns, assuming you have 3200 cargo spaces (a single cargo facility). So, it would appear that it is far better to build cargo facilities and add more WPs than it is to build shield facilities... How much shielding do you think shield arrays should generate? Or maybe I should further weaken unit armor?

EDIT: Decided to make shield arrays range from 10000 shielding to 50000.

[ August 06, 2004, 06:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 07:30 AM

*Click here* (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1121#1121) to see the designs for the new research labs. Comments/opinions/suggestions?

Aiken

August 6th, 2004, 12:24 PM

FYI

Magic/max tech (for example):
=============================
Base 1000 kt +AC5
2000/5000/4000 - 960 kt free
+ 2 RL3 = 5200/5000/4000
-----------------------------
Base 3000 kt + AC5
4000/13000/4000 - 2960 kt free
+ 7RL3 = 15200/13000/4000
-----------------------------
Base 5000 kt +AC5
6000/21000/4000 - 4960 kt free
+ 12 RL3 = 25200/21000/4000
-----------------------------

Large HW (12B/12B) + SC3 = 5250/*/*/turn
========================================
Base 1000 kt:
Empty: 1 turn
+ 2 RL3: 1 turn
-------------------------
Base 3000 kt:
Empty: 3 turn
+ 7 RL3: 3 turn
-------------------------
Base 5000 kt:
Empty: 4 turn
+ 12 RL3: 5 turn
-------------------------
\* AC5 - Autonomous Costruct V
\* RL3 - Research Lab III

So as you see, in this case building time for RLs (apart from bases) is 0 (+1 turn for 5000 kt base) which is wrong in my opinion.
In Last case you get 4800 research in 5 turns, which is far better that 5 Research Labs V (2500) without system improvements and racial modifiers, and this is wrong too. Imho, orbital research shouldn't be so much superiour compared to planetary labs.
These weird calculations are made for full-tech case, but I belive they're true for other ingame situations.

My humble suggestion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif is:

Name := Research Lab I
Description := High-Tech space-borne researching facility which develops new technology for a society.
Pic Num := 885
Tonnage Space Taken := 400
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 1600
Cost Organics := 1600
Cost Radioactives := 1600
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := Five Per Ship
General Group := Research
Family := 7216
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Generate Points Research
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 200 research points each turn, unmodified by racial traits.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 200
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

*duh*

Name := Research Lab V
Description := High-Tech space-borne researching facility which develops new technology for a society.
Pic Num := 885
Tonnage Space Taken := 800
Tonnage Structure := 200
Cost Minerals := 1600
Cost Organics := 1600
Cost Radioactives := 1600
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None (or Ten Per Ship - restriction amount is increasing with comp advancement)
General Group := Research
Family := 7216
Roman Numeral := 5
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Generate Points Research
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 400 research points each turn, unmodified by racial traits.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 400
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

edit: typos, typos...

[ August 06, 2004, 11:30: Message edited by: aiken ]

Atrocities

August 6th, 2004, 12:32 PM

Man I have to say that for the first time in the history of my time with SEIV, I am lost. I am utterly completely and totally lost. I guess it is the side effect of being to tired to realy be able to comprehend what it is you just posted. Or it could just be that it is 4:26 am on 8-04, and all the numbers you just posted coupled with my numbers, and I just messed me right the hell up.

Something really needs to be done about this "Just One More Click" addiction that comes with SE IV. Seriously.

Gandalf Parker

August 6th, 2004, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Something really needs to be done about this "Just One More Click" addiction that comes with SE IV. Seriously. A warning label for the demo?

WARNING: this game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about SEIV strategys while operating heavy machinery. Do not begin learning SEIV without first making arrangments for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immeadiately (Do NOT show him the game!)

JLS

August 6th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by aiken:
Imho, orbital research shouldn't be so much superiour compared to planetary labs.
These weird calculations are made for full-tech case, but I belive they're true for other ingame situations.

My humble suggestion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif is:

Agreed Aiken.

Out of the options of Fyrons earlier post with �research from resource expenditure� - I also chose the most costly (1 from 4); however, from 12+ is wise indeed.

We need to look for the possibilities of Tech-ing out before the game is even near completion - if research returns are too great. Moreover, will the need then arise to compensate with mundane and/or even more over redundant techs to fill excessive research accumulations.

I have no doubts in Fyrons creativity for fresh and crisp new Tech generations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif so *more* may be very interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ August 06, 2004, 16:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Like research facilities, I would prefer to keep them costing only the primary resource. Also, I don't want them to be variable size with tech level (certainly not increasing), as that makes upgrading designs a hassle. I could make them cost 3200 minerals. That would both increase the build time and halve the research they make per resource...

Also, keep in mind that using them on larger bases is not really much more efficient, as you spend about the same amount of resources on Command & Control components per kiloton of base anyways.

Aiken

August 6th, 2004, 06:14 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Like research facilities, I would prefer to keep them costing only the primary resource. Then don't forget that Magical and Physical bases require more organics than minerals (and 0 rads) while Organic bases require more minerals than organics (and 0 rads still).
According to this, Magical and Physical RLs should cost 3200 minerals, but Organic RLs should cost 3200 organics.

Also, keep in mind that using them on larger bases is not really much more efficient, as you spend about the same amount of resources on Command & Control components per kiloton of base anyways. Sure, unless you're using master computers on really big bases - then it's significantly more profitable and effective.

And you still should consider limitation of RL's number per base: 2 massive bases filled with RLs have same research income as fully developed large scientifical planet (1 SY + 19 RC V). It's a research cheat, imho.

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 06:23 PM

Then don't forget that Magical and Physical bases require more organics than minerals (and 0 rads) while Organic bases require more minerals than organics (and 0 rads still).
According to this, Magical and Physical RLs should cost 3200 minerals, but Organic RLs should cost 3200 organics.Magic races have secondary resource costs more evenly distributed between minerals and organics accross the board than physical and organic races do (for their secondary resources). That 4000 minerals doesn't make much of a difference overall for the huge magic base...

Sure, unless you're using master computers on really big bases - then it's significantly more profitable and effective.I was comparing different sized bases...

And you still should consider limitation of RL's number per base: 2 massive bases filled with RLs have same research income as fully developed large scientifical planet (1 SY + 19 RC V). It's a research cheat, imho. And cost around 10000 resources (or more) per turn to maintain, each. So that is basically changing a fully developed resource planet into a fully developed research planet... Also, it costs about the same to build a large number of smaller bases to generate the same amount of research...

[ August 06, 2004, 17:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

August 6th, 2004, 06:39 PM

Sorry, I'm especially dumb today, but anyway I can't understand a sense of this:
18. Fixed - Entertainment Networks and Temple Districts now have negative Planet - Change Population Happiness abilities instead of positive ones, so they no longer increase anger, but instead decrease it. Do system and planet happiness modifiers work different?

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by aiken:
Do system and planet happiness modifiers work different? Yes. System happiness can not take a negative value. Positive decreases anger levels, thus increases happiness. For planet happiness ability, a postive amount increases anger every turn, thus decreases happiness. A negative amount decreases anger every turn, thus increases happiness. It is just like Happiness.txt values. Note that the game stores an anger level variable, not a happiness level. The planet happiness ability functions identically to the Happiness.txt file, whereas the system happiness ability is backwards.

Do you still think research labs are too productive, given their maintenance costs?

[ August 06, 2004, 17:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

August 6th, 2004, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Sure, unless you're using master computers on really big bases - then it's significantly more profitable and effective.I was comparing different sized bases...

Small Astral Base + 1B+5LS+2CQ+2RL: 7850/4675/700 + 400 research
Massive Astral Base + 1 AC + 12 RL: 38400/21000/4000 + 4800 research
-------------------------------------
MassiveBase/SmallBase = 4.89/4.49/5.71 + x6 research. It's always (well most time) more profitable to have big freaking base than small.

And you still should consider limitation of RL's number per base: 2 massive bases filled with RLs have same research income as fully developed large scientifical planet (1 SY + 19 RC V). It's a research cheat, imho. And cost around 10000 resources (or more) per turn to maintain, each. So that is basically changing a fully developed resource planet into a fully developed research planet... Also, it costs about the same to build a large number of smaller bases to generate the same amount of research... [/qb]<hr /></blockquote>Maintanence for hi-tech Massive Base is about 5000/2700/500 per turn (cost 38400/21000/4000 and 13% maint.). So 10000 maintanence is for 2 bases. Then, large hi-tech mining planet can generate 24700 minerals per turn (19 mineral extractors IX) => it can support 4 massive research base (9600 research). Large planet with 19 RC V can generate 9500 research per turn. Well, seems about equal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
It's means that orbital research is a viable alternative to planet-based research! Now it will possible to reduce Intelligence to 50 for 2100 free RP, hmm. Do you think it worths to try?

[ August 06, 2004, 18:14: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 07:23 PM

I was talking about with the doubled cost, at 3200 minerals. That comes to 60800 minerals for the 19 research labs alone, with 7600 maintenance.

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 07:34 PM

Now to compare different hull sizes.

As a basis of comparison, use standard 10 kT LS and CQ. Fill bases with minimum C&C comps, nothing else.

Small base:
80 kT used, 8% of hull used for C&C comps
2150/5400/2100, total 9650
9.65 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Large base:
200 kT used, 6.7% of hull used for C&C comps
5750/15800/5300, total 26850
8.95 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

Massive base:
320 kT used, 6.4% of hull used for C&C comps
9350/26200/8500, total 44050
8.82 resources/kT used for hull and C&C comps

The large base is definitely more efficient in terms of C&C than the small base, by a small margin. The massive base is still more efficient than the large base, but just barely. Using large bases, you pay a little bit more overall, but have more SYs to use in the end... And you get to build them faster, to get a bit of extra boost on research due to having labs operational sooner than when building massive bases.

[ August 06, 2004, 18:41: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Aiken

August 6th, 2004, 08:06 PM

Now with master computers (lvl 5).
massive base 5000 kt:
40 kt used, 0.8% of hull used for c&c comps
6000/21000/4000, total 31000
6.2 resources/kt used for hull and c&c comps

Comparision: 1.0-6.2/9.65 = 0,55 (55% better ratio for massive base). Now, who in their mind will use LS/CQ for research bases?
Yes with small bases you get your research immediatly, but it worth to wait 5 turns to get 16% more research for the same price (building time).

Edit: with tweaked SY rate massive base can be built in 4 turns.

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I was talking about with the doubled cost, at 3200 minerals. That comes to 60800 minerals for the 19 research labs alone, with 7600 maintenance. Yep, I've made a mistake (as always) with calcs for massive bases, sorry.

Costs:
Massive astral base - 5000/20000/0
1 AC V - 1000/1000/4000
12 research labs V (you can't put more on 5000 kt base) - 3200/0/0 x12 = 38400/0/0
Result - minerals: 38400+1000+5000 = 44400; org: 20000+1000 = 21000; rads: 0+0+4000 = 4000
Total - 44400/21000/4000
Maint. ~ 5700/2700/500

And you still can easily support 4 bases (48 labs) with 1 resource planet, so my conclusion is true.

[ August 06, 2004, 19:09: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 08:15 PM

So what would be your suggestion? Research labs still have to be useful...

Fyron

August 6th, 2004, 09:58 PM

For the more evil races out there, I am going to add slave labor camps. Trying to decide on their stats. Keep in mind that the unhappiness will stack, so 10 SLCs will cause 10x as much anger as 1 SLC. Assume a Mineral Miner produces 800 minerals per turn for all examples. Two possibilities are as follows:

a) 10% more productive, +2 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 5 SLCs. 5 SLCs make 4400 minerals per turn. 6 Mineral Miners make 4800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 10 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 60 troops balance out 6 SLCs, which make 480 more resources per turn than 6 Mineral Miners do.

b) 10% more productive, +1 anger per turn

With this, building a max tech Entertainment Network (-10 anger per turn) will balance out 10 SLCs. 10 SLCs make 8800 minerals per turn. 11 Mineral Miners make 8800 minerals per turn. Alternatively, you could build 5 troops per SLC to balance out the anger. So, 55 troops balance out 11 SLCs, which make 880 more resources per turn than 11 Mineral Miners do.

What do you think should be done? Slave Labor Camps need to have an advantage over Mineral Miners, without being way too much of a burden...

[ August 07, 2004, 22:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

JLS

August 7th, 2004, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
What do you think should be done? Slave Labor Camps need to have an advantage over, without being way too much of a burden... FYI only

Fyron when AIC was first released a few Years ago, as you may recall it also included Slave Camps that would yield extra Resources and IIRC that had a 2 to unhappy (Balanced by other positive Happy Facilities).

However, some felt that it may be insensitive so I dropped the Slave Camps immediately.

Call to power also had a Hugh out cry against their Slavers as well, as I later found out.
I was very satisfied the right thing was done when I droped the Camps.
- - -
AIC always had unhappy Planet modifiers on the AIC Intelligence Agency (2u) and Citizen Databanks (1u) and this is balanced by System and Planet happy facilities such as AIC Urban Centers, Universities, Medical Facilities, Military Barracks (5h), etc. and has work very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 07, 2004, 02:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Fyron

August 7th, 2004, 03:28 AM

Economic slavery has been a large part of human history for millennia. It is a part of a very large number of sci-fi universes. So are many other very evil things.

There are many items in stock SE4 that could be said to be just as, if not far more, insensitive. Conditions damaging bombs are insensitive to the Japanese that had atomic bombs dropped on them in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Plague bombs are insensitive to the native American tribes that had diseased blankets given to them to so that they would be infected and die by the US military. Hell, they are insensitive to all native Americans, due to Europeans bringing various diseases over to the Americas, wiping out 90% of the native populations. Napalm bombs are insensitive to the people that had friends and/or family killed in any of dozens of cities that had napalm dropped on them to set them on fire and kill civilians during World War II. Stellar manipulation devices that destroy stars or planets, create black holes, etc. are extremely insensitive, as they are weapons of extreme mass destruction. Should we remove all of these things too?

JLS

August 7th, 2004, 03:30 AM

FYI only

narf poit chez BOOM

August 7th, 2004, 08:19 PM

I have to agree with Fyron. Somewhere, someone's grandma was killed by slipping on a banana peel. I still wouldn't ban banana peel jokes.

Fyron

August 7th, 2004, 08:32 PM

So now to change subject... what facilities do you think would make the people unhappy to have near them (on the same planet)?

Raging Deadstar

August 7th, 2004, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So now to change subject... what facilities do you think would make the people unhappy to have near them (on the same planet)? Any sort of cloning facility? Robot producing factories or something like that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

TerranC

August 7th, 2004, 09:29 PM

Aiken

August 7th, 2004, 09:52 PM

About research labs. I think of 4 variants:

1. Very simple:
Make RLs bigger, say 900 kt and play with research output and costs until satisfactional results.

2. Simple
Add some restrictions to research lab components:
RL lvl 1 - 10 per base
RL lvl 2 - 9 per base
...
RL lvl 5 - 6 per base

or something of that kind. This way maxed reseach base can generate 2400 rp maximum.
However where is workarond to this receipt - ALOT of small bases with 2-6 RL V. Not very good.

3. Weird
5 levels of RLs + 5 sizes of bases = 1 RL per base:

RL I - size: 900 kt; cost: 6400/0/0; research generation: 400; suitable for sizes >= 1000 kt
RL II - size 1900 kt; cost 11200/0/0; research generation: 900; suitable for sizes >= 2000 kt
....
RL V - size 4900 kt; cost 30400/0/0; research generation: 2300; suitable for sizes >= 5000 kt

(numbers are approximate)

Then it will be impossible to upgrade old bases + player is forced to research Base Construction tech. I don't like this variant - too artificial for my taste http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

4. Less weird, but still....
My initial suggestion - increasing lab's size with level. And keep them costing only primary resource.
About upgrading such designs - yes you'll have to make a couple of clicks to remove extra labs and to shut up warnings. That's all.
However, I'm not sure about AI - it seems it can save designs with warnings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Also it would be nice to hear opinions of other people.

And Last: unbalancing research labs in 0.14.08 could be fixed/changed in 0.14.09 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------

Slavery camps:
did you meant
b) 10% more productive, +2 anger per turnor +1?

Imo, +80 (+10%) resource advantage of SLC is too unsignificant and don't worth a burden of troops and entartaimant networks. Probably, +120 (+15%) per facility per turn will be better (talking about maximum levels)?

[ August 07, 2004, 20:56: Message edited by: aiken ]

Fyron

August 7th, 2004, 11:20 PM

What if I add a special Research Station that is the only hull size a Research Lab can fit on via scale mounts? Maybe make it 140 kT and have the Research Lab 10000, with a 1% scale mount, so it ends up 100 kT. Add Bridge, CQ and LS ability to the Research Lab component. This would let you stick a shield generator or some armor on the base for a little bit of protection. No worries about larger bases or master computers... Or I could make the station a bit bigger or something.

At this point in time, labs are 400 kT, cost 3200 resources, and make from 100 to 200 research.

Also it would be nice to hear opinions of other people.So few people want to post their opinions though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Originally posted by aiken:
Slavery camps:
did you meant
<blockquote>quote:<hr />b) 10% more productive, +2 anger per turnor +1?<hr /></blockquote>I fixed it in the post on SE.net, but forgot this one... yeah, it is +1 for b. I have decided to go with a...

Imo, +80 (+10%) resource advantage of SLC is too unsignificant and don't worth a burden of troops and entartaimant networks. Probably, +120 (+15%) per facility per turn will be better (talking about maximum levels)? Think of emotionless races... +10% roughly balances out the loss of the +10% for jubilant happiness they can never have, so it is not too much of a problem.

[ August 07, 2004, 22:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

XenoTheMorph

August 8th, 2004, 09:07 AM

Fyron,

I was thinking about your idea of dedicated research stations and using scale mounts with them /threads/images/Graemlins/ooo.gif

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

What if I add a special Research Station that is the only hull size a Research Lab can fit on via scale mounts? Maybe make it 140 kT and have the Research Lab 10000, with a 1% scale mount, so it ends up 100 kT. Add Bridge, CQ and LS ability to the Research Lab component. This would let you stick a shield generator or some armor on the base for a little bit of protection. No worries about larger bases or master computers... Or I could make the station a bit bigger or something.

What about at higher levels of RL (or possibly bases) adding another scale mount/s to make all The RL a little smaller so you could fit a bit more into the research stations defence (or even scanners etc.) wise, without changing the hull size.

Other than that I do like the RL idea especialy since it means more flexability. i.e. if you get into an unexpected war you can mothball the RL stations and use the resources freed up to build up your navy and so on. All without scrapping and rebuilding facilities! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Fyron

August 14th, 2004, 02:20 AM

Version 0.14.08 of the Adamant Mod by Imperator Fyron has been released. This update features many additions and fixes. There are new forced exploitation facilities for the more evil races. Armor component costs have been revamped. Dense armors (those with the actual armor ability) have been reduced to one half the level of hit points they had previously. Shield Array facilities are now useful. New research outPosts have been added, which can generate reseach points in space. A new race, the Pequeninos, has been added to the mod.

If patching from a previous 0.14.xx Version, you will need the Race Pack and the Lite files. It does not matter which is applied first.

Version 0.14.08 - 13 August 2004:
Files Altered: AI_Design_Creation.txt files, CompEnhancement.txt, Components.txt, Facility.txt, Happiness.txt, TechArea.txt
1. Fixed - War Talismans and Death Talismans are now in general group Religious instead of War Ethos.
2. Fixed - Prismatic Spray I is now Prismatic Sphere I.
3. Fixed - AI empires no longer add 2 colony modules to colony ships.
4. Changed - AI empires no longer add quantum reactors to any vehicle designs.
5. Fixed - Somehow the old problem of AIs building homeworld facilities on colonies had resurfaced. It is fixed, again.
6. Fixed - Organic Seekers and Mephit Summoning tech areas now have max level 10 instead of 5.
7. Fixed - Decoy Missiles were incorrectly in family 2111 instead of 2112.
8. Fixed - Strike Parasite II now costs 275 organics instead of 2750.
9. Changed - Crystalline Armor with Shield Generation From Damage ability is now only available to Ships and Bases. The unit Crystalline Armor with no such ability is available to all units except mines.
10. Changed - Halved the hit points of unit Crystalline Armor to bring it in line with normal unit armor.
11. Changed - Unit Crystalline Armor is now in family 7214 so as to prevent unintended upgrades from ship Crystalline Armor.
12. Fixed - Crew Quarters had "jealously" used in their descriptions instead of "jealousy."
13. Changed - AP Mine Charges now state that they bypass hyper-dense armor, rather than all armor.
14. Fixed - Shipyard Expansion - Radioactives facilities now cost 6000 secondary resources, rather than 4000.
15. Changed - Clawed Appendages now have the damage type Quarter Damage To Shields.
16. Changed - Gaian Presence facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
17. Changed - Religious shrine facilities now have roman numerals as part of their names.
18. Fixed - Entertainment Networks and Temple Districts now have negative Planet - Change Population Happiness abilities instead of positive ones, so they no longer increase anger, but instead decrease it.
19. Fixed - Applied Political Science now has 5 levels instead of 3.
20. Changed - Resource Manipulation tech area now requires Biology in addition to Chemistry and Physics.
21. Added - Theoretical techs must be researched before higher than level 1 in basic resource harvesting technologies can be developed. The race paradigm's primary resource requires one level, whereas the other two resources require 2 levels.
22. Changed - Light armor now costs as many resources as it has hit points. Heavy armor costs two times as many resources as it has hit points. Organic armors cost 50% extra, due to regenerative properties.
23. Fixed - Reduced the length of the description of the Fire Ball components so that they no longer cause overflow.
24. Fixed - Base Space Yards are now in family 7215 instead of 6 so that Ship Space Yards will no longer upgrade to them.
25. Fixed - Planetary Shield Array facilities will no longer upgrade to Planetary Phased - Shield Array facilities.
26. Changed - Shield Array facilities now range from 10000 to 50000 shield points instead of 5000 to 20000.
27. Added - Research Lab components, for bases only. Also added Research Outpost hull, which is the only hull that Research Labs can be used on.
28. Fixed - Propaganda Center facilities erroneously had 0 for the ability System Point Generation Modifier - Research.
29. Fixed - University Research tech area now has max level 6 instead of 3.
30. Removed - All facilities with the ability Planet - Change Population Happiness now no longer mention "(only 1 facility per planet effective)." Such facilities actually stack with each other.
31. Removed - In ability descriptions of facilities with Planet - Change Population Happiness or Change Population Happiness - System abilities, all references to such facilities not stacking with each other have been removed. They do in fact stack with each other.
32. Added - Citizen Database Complexes now increase anger by +10 per turn. System Versions increase anger by +20 per turn.
33. Added - Death Shrines now increase anger by +6 per turn, to a minimum of +4 per turn at max level.
34. Changed - Replaced all mentions of "radioactives" with "mana crystals" for Magic race facilities and components.
35. Added - Slave Labor Camps, which are 10% more productive resource facilities, but increase anger by +2 per turn each.
36. Changed - High tech start homeworld resource facilities now generate 1431 resources instead of 1301, so that homeworlds do not start filled with Slave Labor Camps on a high tech start.
37. Changed - Bloodthirsty happiness type now has only an anger rise of 2 instead of 10 for colonizing new planets.
38. Added - Forced Breeding Camps, which increase reproduction rates at the expense of happiness.
39. Changed - Urban Pacification Centers now require Applied Political Science levels 3 to 5 instead of 1 to 3.
40. Added - Pequeninos race.
41. Changed - Size range of AI base space yard designs is now 500 kT to 1100 kT instead of 10kT to 5000 kT.
42. Changed - Minimum size of an AI defense base design is now 1000 kT.
43. Changed - Halved structure of dense armors.
44. Changed - Increased damage and range of shield disrupters.
45. Fixed - Graviton Hellbore VI is now more expensive than Graviton Hellbore V.
46. Added - Armor-skipping Nanoparasite Launcher weapons for Organic races and Wailing Doom for Magic races.

Captain Kwok

August 14th, 2004, 12:04 PM

You should add (v0.14.08) in your thread title. Thanks for the tip with fixed item #18 - I didn't know that the planet ability for happiness was reversed (or alternatively the system ability for happiness was backwards). I have lots of these facilities in SFEmod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Fyron

August 15th, 2004, 06:58 PM

Somehow the release Version of the mod had a typo in Default_AI_Research.txt that is not present in the dev Version. Extract this to the Adamant\AI\ folder:

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/temp/Default_AI_Research.zip

Fyron

August 20th, 2004, 10:01 PM

Version 0.14.09 of Adamant Mod has been released. There were some errors in regards to Research OutPosts that have been fixed. There is only a patch this time around, since it does not really warrant a full Version release. You can get the patch here (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=396).

For more information on Adamant Mod, you can visit it's web site (http://adamant.spaceempires.net/).

Version 0.14.09 - 20 August 2004:
Files Altered: CompEnhancement.txt, Components.txt, Facility.txt, TechArea.txt, VehicleSize.txt
1. Fixed - Dispel Evocation, Spelljammer Capture, and AP Explosive Glyphs tech areas now require Spellcraft instead of Applied Evolution.
2. Fixed - Combat Command components are now in family 6010 instead of 6007, so they do not make Siege Fortifications obselete.
3. Added - Organic and Magic Versions of the Research Outpost vehicle hull.
4. Fixed - Research Outpost mount is now only allowed on bases of 140 kT.
5. Added - Mounts for Organic and Magic research base components.
6. Added - Ship Bridge components now generate 20 intelligence, to simulate the increased flexibility of the covert ops agencies from having more ships at their disposal.

Fyron

August 30th, 2004, 09:45 PM

If I were to add a new racial paradigm to Adamant Mod (to complement Physical, Organic and Magic races), what would you like to see?

narf poit chez BOOM

August 30th, 2004, 10:16 PM

A list of or's: Psionic, Crystaline, Energy, Plasma, Mentalists.

By mentalists, I mean like in Kung Fu: The Legend Continues, only without the mystical slant.

Captain Kwok

August 30th, 2004, 11:22 PM

As mentioned on se.net - I'd like to see Energy and Mechanical beings added. Crystalline could also be an interesting option.

Caduceus

August 30th, 2004, 11:40 PM

How about "ethereal", which would work well with gas-dwelling races.

Wildcard /threads/images/Graemlins/icon46.gif

Ed Kolis

August 31st, 2004, 12:52 AM

As I mentioned in the SE.net forum, how about Energy, Digital, and Sentient Planet?

Caduceus

September 1st, 2004, 03:26 PM

You could have "planet killers" - a la Galactus from the Marvel Universe... Destroying planets (into asteroids) in order to survive and produce energy.

Wildcard /threads/images/Graemlins/icon46.gif

Fyron

September 1st, 2004, 03:58 PM

That is unfortunately not possible. You can't force a race to need to "eat" planets to survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Also, I believe that the Space Monsters already in the mod have some ships that "eat" planets already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Captain Kwok

September 1st, 2004, 09:01 PM

I think the 3 types I suggested could have many valid technologies to flesh them out to the extent of the current 3 types in Adamant.

Fyron

September 1st, 2004, 09:04 PM

They certainly could... however, it is most difficult coming up with ideas for energy races... check out this page for what I have so far:

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/temp/Energy_Races.txt

Captain Kwok

September 1st, 2004, 09:08 PM

You could also add some plasma stuff for energy races if you don't want to make that a separate paradigm.

You could also add a bunch of items based on some of the more advanced theories in quantum physics.

PvK

September 5th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Imperator Fyron said:
That is unfortunately not possible. You can't force a race to need to "eat" planets to survive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Also, I believe that the Space Monsters already in the mod have some ships that "eat" planets already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Well you could, but it's a lot of work - you'd probably need to limit their tech tree to accomplish it, and take away their ability to make efficient use of planets as non-disposable resource generators.

PvK

PvK

September 5th, 2004, 02:14 PM

Imperator Fyron said:
...
Lite contains all of the data and AI updates. Race Pack contains new ship set images added since the 0.14.00 Version. So far, it only contains the Manai ship set. If you already have this ship set installed, you do not need to get the Race Pack.
...

Does anyone know why the Manai shipset (as found on PBW) might crash my computer as soon as SE4 tries to load a game where one of the players is using it? We're using Proportions Mod 3.0.1 in that game.

To try to fix it, I checked the image sizes and re-saved them all using a fairly old Version of MS Paint, but it still crashes my computer. Anyone have any ideas?

Raging Deadstar

September 5th, 2004, 02:40 PM

Ahh, you are using those ship names and stuff i gave you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Was wondering if you were going to

Fyron

September 5th, 2004, 02:55 PM

PvK said:

Does anyone know why the Manai shipset (as found on PBW) might crash my computer as soon as SE4 tries to load a game where one of the players is using it? We're using Proportions Mod 3.0.1 in that game.

To try to fix it, I checked the image sizes and re-saved them all using a fairly old Version of MS Paint, but it still crashes my computer. Anyone have any ideas?

MS Paint on windows XP (and sometimes 2000) saves bitmaps with a different, non-standard header than most programs save them with (including MS Paint from older Versions of Windows). Most of the time this isn't an issue, and programs are able to ignore them. SE4, however, has some strange image reading code and crashes when it encounters such file headers on Windows 98... Loading SE4 with such images on Windows 2000 or XP works fine though... Try using www.irfanview.com (http://www.irfanview.com) to run a batch conVersion of all images in the Manai folder from bitmaps to bitmaps. This will give them standard bitmap file headers, allowing SE4 to not crash.

Well you could, but it's a lot of work - you'd probably need to limit their tech tree to accomplish it, and take away their ability to make efficient use of planets as non-disposable resource generators.

Remote mining does not decrease values in Adamant, so it is not possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Also, the idea of a paradigm is that pretty much every single item they have is unique to that paradigm. It is a lot of work implementing any paradigm.

PvK

September 5th, 2004, 03:16 PM

Thanks Fyron! I figured it was something like that ... (Where does M$ want me to have problems with their older products today?) ... I'll give that a try.

PvK

Fyron

September 5th, 2004, 03:37 PM

Where does M$ want me to have problems with their older products today?

What do you mean, "today?" Their biggest competition is older Versions of Windows, you know...

PvK

September 5th, 2004, 06:32 PM

I mean, Microsoft's annoying Win95-era slogan, "where do you want to go today?", which has ever since suggested itself for ironic parody. It's generally more a case of "what does using Microsoft stuff force you to deal with today?" Hey look, they've innovated some unneeded changes to the BMP format which breaks Space Empires IV. As you say, Win98 is now their main competitor for XP (the emoticon OS), and as with past competitors, pointless changes and incompatibilities lead the way in generating otherwise-absent reasons to pay them anew for their latest Version of their OS. Or, just to resent it, and to renew one's vow to abstain, as it is doing in this case with me.

PvK

PvK

September 15th, 2004, 03:29 AM

I have been SO busy lately! I only now finally managed to get back to this issue. Turns out you were spot on, Fyron. Infranview batch re-save cleared up the problem. I updated the ship set on PBW with an identical Version except with images that do not crash Win98.

Thanks!

PvK

Fyron

October 2nd, 2004, 04:21 AM

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/features.php

Working on a mod features page... What do you think (other than the fact that nearly everything is in unsorted features and all jumbled up... those issues will be fixed)? Did I miss anything? Something need more clarifying? Something a bad idea to put in the list? Input is required!

Oh, and I especially like the shiney green arrows... ok going to sleep now...

Atrocities

October 2nd, 2004, 04:40 AM

Nice list. Recall that I too have given it rave reviews.

Fyron

October 3rd, 2004, 02:17 PM

Imperator Fyron said:
http://adamant.spaceempires.net/features.php

Working on a mod features page... What do you think (other than the fact that nearly everything is in unsorted features and all jumbled up... those issues will be fixed)? Did I miss anything? Something need more clarifying? Something a bad idea to put in the list? Input is required!

Oh, and I especially like the shiney green arrows... ok going to sleep now...

Nobody has even one suggestion? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Aiken

October 3rd, 2004, 03:53 PM

* More logical maintanence scheme.

* Planet riots won't eliminate your production.

* Roleplay Elements for greater RP games (current RP comps are nearly useless, add more elements to 0.15 - artifacts, banners, mummies of famous leaders, whatever you like).

* Emphasis on FQMD use: more quadrant types, realistic solar systems, /insert more PR here/.

Fyron

October 3rd, 2004, 04:05 PM

Added them. What do you think?

Caduceus

October 3rd, 2004, 04:32 PM

Looking good Fyron.

The reviews are the best bits, though.

Wildcard /threads/images/Graemlins/icon46.gif

Aiken

October 3rd, 2004, 04:47 PM

The Maintenance Aptitude trait makes more sense now. Instead of reducing the base maintenance rate, it now reduces the actual maintenance paid. A characteristic of 110% actually reduces ship maintenance rates by 10%, not the bizarre 40% as in stock.

You know, it's advertizing, not tech reference. Too long and sophisticated (it's considered by default that target group is not as advanced as you). I don't have a ready-to-use Version, but try to make it compact and easy understandable.

Also. What you really need is SLOGAN. And emblem, probably ...

.... uh, sorry, learned too much marketing for exams this week. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Fyron

October 3rd, 2004, 05:15 PM

aiken said:
You know, it's advertizing, not tech reference. Too long and sophisticated (it's considered by default that target group is not as advanced as you). I don't have a ready-to-use Version, but try to make it compact and easy understandable.

Erm... examples make things easier to understand, do they not? It is a somewhat obtuse concept without the example.

Aiken

October 3rd, 2004, 05:36 PM

I don't mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Leave example, but throw away this sentence "Instead of reducing the base maintenance rate, it now reduces the actual maintenance paid." And since it describes deep mod mechanics and interesting for modders only, you won't harm whole idea by removing it.

Fyron

October 3rd, 2004, 06:13 PM

How about now?

Any other comments/suggestions? Care to add a funny review? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Fyron

October 13th, 2004, 10:07 PM

Adamant 0.15.00 has been released.

This Version has many exciting new features.
You can now play as a Pirate or a Nomadic race, based on the classic Pirates and Nomads Mod, by Suicide Junkie.
The groundwork for 2 new racial paradigms, Energy and Machine races, has been laid out. These paradigms are not yet playable.
Racial point costs have been reworked with a new Imperial Aspirations trait having been added. Now, it is very difficult to select multiple paradigms or colony types.
The Racial Traits selection process has been streamlined with the inclusion of helpful info directly into the traits.
Numerous bug fixes and balance tweaks have been made.
Master Computers and Cloaking Devices now scale in size based on the size of ship you are placing them on.
Stellar Manipulation has been tweaked to be a bit more expensive. Additionally, only tiny sized planets can ever be created.
Massive Gas Giants have been added, which are one size class larger than Huge planets. They are fairly rare in appearance.
And many more...
Mod web site:

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/

Note that there is no FQM file yet. It will take a while to upload.

You will want to make a fresh, clean install of the mod for 0.15.00.

The history file is attached to this post.

Captain Kwok

October 13th, 2004, 11:15 PM

I like the changes you've made to planet creation. Another option you can consider rather than scrapping the creation of larger planets, is to add another tech area at a much higher cost for creating larger planets - that might keep players from scrapping all their research facilities towards the end game as a bonus.

Atrocities

October 16th, 2004, 01:35 AM

When one sits down and looks over the detail of this mod, one can't help but get the distinct impression and sense that this mod is of a grand scope.

Fyron this has to be one of the most ambisious mods ever made for SEIV. I don't know how many people have had a chance to play this mod, but I would hope many have taken the oppertunity to do so.

The grand scope of this mod is mind bogglingly impressive to say the least. It is both brillant and dubious at the same time. Brillant in that is uses every thing but the kitchen sink in its well thought out symetry, dubious in that it draws you in and never lets you go. It is a grand mod on an epic level of modding. A true king of the hill, the Emperor of mods.

Fyron

October 16th, 2004, 01:44 AM

*eyes glaze over* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Aiken

October 16th, 2004, 06:36 AM

Now Fyron will regard himself as Teh Modding God. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Aiken

October 18th, 2004, 03:09 AM

I have a question:
there are normal remote miners and nomadic remote miners (some strings skipped):
Code:<hr /><pre> Name := Organics Harvester III
Description := Digestive systems which can harvest organics from asteroids or empty planets remotely.
Pic Num := 855
Tonnage Space Taken := 100
Tonnage Structure := 100
Cost Minerals := 0
Cost Organics := 1500
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 100
Restrictions := Four Per Vehicle
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Harvesting
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Normal Race
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Remote Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Automatically harvests 800 organics from any asteroids ...
Ability 1 Val 1 := 800
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0 </pre><hr />
and
Code:<hr /><pre> Name := Organics Harvester III
Description := Digestive systems which can harvest organics from asteroids or empty planets remotely.
Pic Num := 855
Tonnage Space Taken := 100
Tonnage Structure := 100
Cost Minerals := 0
Cost Organics := 1500
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 100
Restrictions := Four Per Vehicle
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Organics Harvesting
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Tech Area Req 2 := Nomadic Race
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Remote Resource Generation - Organics
Ability 1 Descr := Automatically harvests 800 organics from any asteroids ...
Ability 1 Val 1 := 800
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0 </pre><hr />
So what's the difference? And if there is no difference, what's the point of making 2 identical Groups of components?

Fyron

October 18th, 2004, 03:20 AM

Pirates have special remote miners that are less productive. Hence, the normal remote miners must be unavailable to them. There is no OR for tech reqs, so Nomads must have a duplicate as well.

Aiken

October 18th, 2004, 03:30 AM

You've just killed my Last hope, Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I thought it was a bug and nomadic miners will be fixed (read improved) in the future. Now it's all over and my great plans are broken. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Fyron

October 18th, 2004, 03:42 AM

Huh? What do you mean? Nomadic remote mining ships are very productive, due to 1% maintenance rates... Remote Mining components even count as cargo...

Aiken

October 18th, 2004, 12:05 PM

I was kidding.

Psychoportation trait serves no purpose. Still.

Fyron

October 18th, 2004, 01:21 PM

Nobody gives me any suggestions. Still.

Aiken

October 18th, 2004, 01:48 PM

Strong answer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Then you can remove it for a while, or mark it as nonfunctional, because I was about to spend 450 points for this traithttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Thanks lord, I decided to look what it actually gives.

Fyron

October 18th, 2004, 02:33 PM

Perhaps we could brainstorm some ideas for it? I was thinking a +1 combat move afterburner type component for fighters. I think I can make it stack with regular afterburners...

XenoTheMorph

October 18th, 2004, 04:58 PM

Well I have always thought of Psychoportation meaning that the race is able to move themselves or nearby items a 'short' distance via teleportation rather than telekinesis-like movement.
So in that vein maybe give new fighter hulls (or possibly more easily, specialised cockpits) that give defence bonuses (hops out of the previous intercept trajectory), and maybe upgraded seekers with slightly greater damage resistance to simulate this as well. Maybe increased unit deployment components (they just 'move' the units outside). Maybe even let the bridge gave multiple unit type deployment (1 unit/turn), who needs bays when you can teleport items off your ship! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Ohhh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif what about a new point defence component type called...
'Intercept Blink Bomb' range 1, high damage, okish accuracy (living judgment), small (just bombs and an adept), with a per ship limit to prevent abuse (to many interfear with each other?).

Hmmm not sure about new facilities though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

*** end random stream of consciousness/insane ramblings ***

Fyron

October 18th, 2004, 05:24 PM

That was the idea behind the movement bonus for the fighters; the psion would be able to make the fighter teleport a short distance periodically.

CovertJaguar

October 18th, 2004, 09:15 PM

I like the sound of not needing bays to launch units. It would make a race capable of doing it unique, provided it isn't too powerful. Or possibly even just increasing the number of units that bays could launch would work, though it would be less exciting.

As for facilities, I suppose you could combine the nexus with a more common facilty or something. Teleporting resources about the empire with out the need for a nexus fits the theme. Eh, Maybe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 11:33 AM

CovertJaguar said in another thread:
Hey, Fyron I got to thinking if I could actually help you out with pics, so I dug out my 3D rendering software and gave it a try. What do you think, you want more? A magic bridge pic is attached. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Not bad, but Magic "bridges" require a set of chairs that spellcasters sit in, providing magic power to control and direct the ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CovertJaguar

October 19th, 2004, 12:00 PM

lol, you can only fit so much in 128 x 128 pic, and besides chairs are boring inactive things. Although the more sugggestions you give me the better things will look.

Ragnarok-X

October 19th, 2004, 01:01 PM

I think pirates and nomads need ALOT of tweaking or rather improvements. Things, that make playing with those traits interesting.
For pirates, consider adding low-tech or inexpensive cloaking devices. Maybe even a component to create low level local storms with cloaking ability. Consider adding special weapons like tractor beams or shield depleting weapons. Weapons with destroy security stations only would be a good idea, too.
That are my suggestions for pirates.

About nomads...Maybe add a another base size, a small one, to resemble some kind of base-city, basicly a station to show where nomads live. More efficient remote miners are a MUST, maybe make components which decrease maintaince, have a increased output or low costs. Nomads should be able to move things more easily, so think about adding some kind of small transport which can hold only 200kT of cargo but has a very low EpM setting to resemble fast freighters.

Thats it for now, hope you like my suggestions !

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 01:50 PM

Ragnarok-X said:
I think pirates and nomads need ALOT of tweaking or rather improvements. Things, that make playing with those traits interesting.

Hmm... playing with them seems to be rather interesting already, but improvements couldn't hurt.

For pirates, consider adding low-tech or inexpensive cloaking devices. Maybe even a component to create low level local storms with cloaking ability. Consider adding special weapons like tractor beams or shield depleting weapons. Weapons with destroy security stations only would be a good idea, too.
That are my suggestions for pirates.

Civilian cruisers and freighters have super cloaking (always undetectable), in addition to good maintenance reduction. Perhaps a small, one shot per battle security-station destroying component, to aide those cruisers in boarding heavily defended ships?

More efficient remote miners are a MUST, maybe make components which decrease maintaince, have a increased output or low costs.

I don't see how I could make them more efficient than 1% maintenance rates? Add an Ultra-Recycler Node to your remote mining ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

About nomads...Maybe add a another base size, a small one, to resemble some kind of base-city, basicly a station to show where nomads live. More efficient remote miners are a MUST, maybe make components which decrease maintaince, have a increased output or low costs. Nomads should be able to move things more easily, so think about adding some kind of small transport which can hold only 200kT of cargo but has a very low EpM setting to resemble fast freighters.

What would this base city do, specifically? What purpose would it serve that can not be fulfilled by the space station hull?

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 01:52 PM

CovertJaguar said:
lol, you can only fit so much in 128 x 128 pic, and besides chairs are boring inactive things. Although the more sugggestions you give me the better things will look.

Not for Spelljammers. The "Helm" is what channels magic power from a spellcaster to the ship, thus enabling control of it. The "Helm" is really a set of chairs that the spellcaster(s) sit in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif The sailing ship steering wheel is good, it just needs more of a Spelljammer feel, chair and all. Additionally, two Versions are needed, the "Major" and "Minor" helms (think combat bridge and civilian ship bridge equivalents).

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 02:12 PM

And for a third post in a row... Adamant Mod 0.15.01 is released! This patch simply adds the missing Research and Covert Ops Teams components for Organic and Magic Nomads:

Adamant Mod 0.15.01 Data (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=426)

Extract it into the root SE4 directory and it will install itself over your current Adamant Mod 0.15.00 installation.

Aiken

October 19th, 2004, 02:17 PM

Hey, what about ultra-recycler node for research lab bases? Can I fit this comp to them now?

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 02:22 PM

No. I am still undecided whether I should allow Nomads to use Research OutPosts in the first place... they really don't need them, as they can use their Research Teams to get as much research...

Ragnarok-X

October 19th, 2004, 02:27 PM

Hey, just wanted to say that my suggestions were all out of the blue, i hadnt a look at pirate/nomad race traits yet, so i just came up with a couple of suggestions. Sorry if they sounded stupid or where already implented !

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 02:32 PM

Ragnarok-X said:
Hey, just wanted to say that my suggestions were all out of the blue, i hadnt a look at pirate/nomad race traits yet, so i just came up with a couple of suggestions. Sorry if they sounded stupid or where already implented !

No worries. Keep 'em coming! SJ might even want to use some of them in the official Pirates and Nomads Mod, should he ever make an update for it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Aiken

October 19th, 2004, 03:36 PM

Imperator Fyron said:
No. I am still undecided whether I should allow Nomads to use Research OutPosts in the first place... they really don't need them, as they can use their Research Teams to get as much research...

Not exactly. 10 research teams I generate 50 rp, while 1 research lab I generates 100 rp. And in the end of the game: 10 research teams 3 generate 150 rp, but research lab V generates 200 rp. For the same size of 100 kt. If you're afraid of nomad research overproduction, don't worry, I'll need to build 1000 research lab bases to achieve 100000-150000 research output http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif It's unlikely to happen even in the midgame.

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 03:38 PM

It is more an issue of redundancy... And bases aren't very nomadic anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Aiken

October 19th, 2004, 04:40 PM

Transports (organic) with recycler node have negative maintanence: 100-80-22= -2%. You simply forgot to include piratic and nomadic Versions of organic transport hulls.

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Ugh. Anything else you would like to catch before I do something dumb and make 0.15.02 before you find another error? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Actually... I am considering making the range penalty to hit be 5% instead of 10%... This would make long range tactics far more viable.

Aiken

October 19th, 2004, 05:13 PM

Magical transports for nomads and pirates are missing too. Hence they'll have -4% maint. reduction.
Actually, I love this bug. Could you wait a bit before fixing it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Persistent question: I'm curious, are you going to add resource reclamation ability to Monty Pirate Flying Space Yards? I remember you sympathized with this idea.

I was never able to predict revelation of errors. Maybe today or tommorow or next week.

CovertJaguar

October 19th, 2004, 07:02 PM

Something more like this pic perhaps?

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 07:08 PM

Ooooh. Maybe that could be the "basic bridge", and the "bridge" could have a fancier chair? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

CovertJaguar

October 19th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Changed the lights in the simple one:

EDIT: Image tags don't work?

CovertJaguar

October 19th, 2004, 08:18 PM

And here is the fancy one:

This would work better if the image tags worked.

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 10:11 PM

I think the forum software refuses bitmaps in image tags.

Those are great! What else would you like to make images for? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

CovertJaguar

October 19th, 2004, 11:48 PM

Well lets see, got any ideas about how to make the atmosphere generators look magical, especially the basic one? And I was thinking maybe just a post with a glowing orb for the backup helm. Not sure about the flag bridge though.

I think I'll post jpegs from now on and send you the bitmaps when I have a number of them done.

Fyron

October 19th, 2004, 11:54 PM

Why not just use PNGs? They are capable of lossless compression and prevent the need for sending 2 images. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Also, are you ok with the idea of having all of these images added to the Image Mod?

CovertJaguar

October 20th, 2004, 12:06 AM

I've never used pngs, I could try them. And yes I fine with having them added to the image mod, but I don't know how to get that done so I'll leave that up to you.

Here is what I have so far. I made the first two brighter.
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Basic%20Helm.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Major%20Helm.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Minor%20Helm.png

Captain Kwok

October 20th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Nice stuff.

Why not make the atmospheric generator a larger glowing globe (perhaps another colour?) supported by 3 or 4 "brass" pipes arranged in a tripod fashion...? It's looking a little bland as is...

CovertJaguar

October 20th, 2004, 12:37 AM

Something like this perhaps:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Basic%20Atmosphere%20Generator.png

Fyron

October 20th, 2004, 01:00 AM

Looking good! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Although I do agree, that auxiliary bridge is a little lackluster.

Captain Kwok

October 20th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Jaguar,

Yeah, that's great!

CovertJaguar

October 20th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Hmm... Any suggestions for the auxilliary helm.

Anyway here is the Atmosphere Generator:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Atmosphere%20Generator.png

Aiken

October 20th, 2004, 02:04 AM

For auxilary helm you can place 3 glowing orbs on pedestals and round stool or something else (pillar, pyramid, etc) in the center.
What I would like to see are pentagrams, sculls, candles and all that magical stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

About errors: no Ressuply Depots (5 types) have any roman numerals. They're all zeroed.

CovertJaguar

October 20th, 2004, 02:29 AM

I was thinking of using some kind of circular runes or pentagrams for the summoning circles and astral monster gates. And perhaps a skull for the autonomous constructs, maybe.

Here is a new Minor Helm:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/New%20Minor%20Helm.png

EDIT: And here are some Luxurious Crew Quarters:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Luxurious%20Crew%20Quarters.png

Fyron

October 20th, 2004, 03:06 AM

Autonomous constructs are more like golems than undead.

These are great, as usual. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

CovertJaguar

October 20th, 2004, 04:39 AM

Yah, I kind figured that, skulls just didn't sound right. I'll have some more tomorrow. Any suggestions anyone has are helpful and welcome.

I was thinking of maybe for the flag bridge either having a large transparent sphere with clusters of small different colored lights in it to represent battle Groups or perhaps some kind of scrying pool. I can do some pretty good looking water.

And what about the Fanatical Command, you want something for that, I could do something like the Major Helm but with an addition chair facing the opposite direction.

Then there is the repair homunculus, which really needs a new pic, any ideas. I can do some limited lifeform modeling. You want something spiderlike or did you have something else in mind.

As for the Summoning Circles I was thinking of a pentagram or runes on the floor with Posts around the circle directed towards the middle. I could then put orbs on the Posts or I might be able to string lightning between them.

I could do something with an altar and candles for the Altar of Healing if that sounds good.

Are Psycotropic Drugs a very magical thing? Shouldn't it be some kind of berserker enchantment or potion.

Any ideas for the reformation node.

How about banks of glowing orbs for the Mana Shard Generators or perhaps some kind of large uneven crystal shard mounted in some kind of bracket.

That ought to keep me busy for at least another day. Remember any and all suggestions are welcome.

Captain Kwok

October 20th, 2004, 08:59 AM

Perhaps the luxurious crew quarters could contain a "desk" and bunk or something like that to suggest "luxury" - I'm thinking along the lines of a Captain's quarters on an old sailing ship. Perhaps even some of those multiple-windowed portholes with a view of the stars.

A basic crew quarters could have some sort of hay mat or hammock for a bunk. Maybe even 2 or 3 of them sinced they'd be shared accomidations.

Matryx

October 20th, 2004, 09:17 AM

Luxury?
Then a plush four poster bed, with drapes and everything.
Fancy cushions
Desk and quill

XenoTheMorph

October 20th, 2004, 10:39 AM

CovertJaguar I really do like your images! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

The scrying pool sound good, though maybe that should be a replacement pic for the sensors gained from the Scrying 'tech' area http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

For the Fanatical Command what about adding some melee /threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif weapons to the image or some lighting /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif sweeping between the glowing 'Posts'?

I think your right about the Psycotropic Drugs, maybe some hallucinogenic fungi /threads/images/Graemlins/icon04.gif or herbs woulf fit a magical low tech theme better?

I wonder if you can fit some Alchemical lab equipment /threads/images/Graemlins/icon24.gif in you pics. Actually that would be a good replacement image for the magical base labs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif
What do all you guys think?

Hopefully you can remove more of the anachronistic images the magical races have been stuck with http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (a pet hate of mine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif, unfortunatly i'm lacking in artistic talent myself)

Finally keep up the good work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif

Fyron

October 20th, 2004, 02:30 PM

You guys dislike the current crew quarters for magical races? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Aiken

October 20th, 2004, 04:32 PM

In full tech games then playing nomad/pirate your HW starts with spaceport, resupply depot and SY only. No ancestral meeting grounds (forgot the actual name). So please add hitech Version of ancestral meeting groungs with small amount of mineral/org/rad production (1 per facility will be enough).

Then there is the repair homunculus, which really needs a new pic, any ideas. I can do some limited lifeform modeling. You want something spiderlike or did you have something else in mind.

Dwarf with a hammer and saw! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As for the Summoning Circles I was thinking of a pentagram or runes on the floor with Posts around the circle directed towards the middle. I could then put orbs on the Posts or I might be able to string lightning between them.

Yes, I think it could look like Stonehedge with glowing red pentagram on the floor. Lightning is welcome.

Reformation node: medium sized boat with primitive manipulators and instruments?

How about banks of glowing orbs for the Mana Shard Generators or perhaps some kind of large uneven crystal shard mounted in some kind of bracket.

Crystal shards. And the amount of crystals increases with mana generator advancement. They could have different colors also.