Adamant Mod Discussion Thread

[Captain Kwok]

I like the summoning circle on the left below, have you tried using a yellowish zig-zagged energy beam between the Posts?

[CovertJaguar]

Like this you mean:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Yellow.png

[Fyron]

You might want to make sure that the components are all rendered at the same angle (such as the angle of stock component images). It will look somewhat strange to view a ship design and see that every image has a different viewing angle.

[Captain Kwok]

CovertJaguar said:
Like this you mean:http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Yellow.png



Yeah, but maybe a bit more wavy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Everything has had the same angle except the crew quarters, which use an angle similar to the stock image, and the scrying pool, which I have fixed:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Scrying%20Pool%202.png

EDIT: Wavy like this?
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Wavy.png

[Captain Kwok]

Maybe five or so "saw teeth" per section...

[CovertJaguar]

Like either of these?
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Wavy%202.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Wavy%203.png

[Captain Kwok]

If you made the one on the right have multi-colored beams it might look cool.

[CovertJaguar]

I'll try that.

Anyway here is the Altar of Healing:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Alter%20of%20Healing.png

EDIT: Hmm... This background does wierd things to my flames. It looks better on a black background

[Fyron]

Have you been saving them with transparent backgrounds? Might as well just save it as black...

[CovertJaguar]

I didn't realize I had a choice, it just sort of did it automatically and I never paid any attention to it.

Here is the alter with a black background:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Alter%20of%20Healing%20-%20Black%20Background.png

And the bicolor Summoning Circle:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Bicolor.png

Does it need to be brighter on the black background?

EDIT: Well anyway here is a brighter one:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20Bicolor%20Bright.png

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Captain Kwok said:
If you made the one on the right have multi-colored beams it might look cool.


Ignore him. They already look cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Atrocities]

CovertJaguar said:
I'll try that.

Anyway here is the Altar of Healing:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Alter%20of%20Healing.png

EDIT: Hmm... This background does wierd things to my flames. It looks better on a black background



That is rally nice work.

[Captain Kwok]

I like that Last summoning circle - the brighter one. That's cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Time for an update.

The Fanatic Command:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Fanatic%20Command.png
You like the glow on the sword and halberd or is it too much?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Like it.

[XenoTheMorph]

That is really good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
I have to say I think the glow is just right!

[CovertJaguar]

And Behold The Entire Mana Shard Generator Series:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20I.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20II.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20III.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20IV.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20V.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20VI.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20VII%20NEW.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20VIII.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mana%20Shard%20Generator%20IX.png

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Gimme a '1'! Gimme a '2'! Gimme a '3'!

Well, it was my first impression. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Lol, never thought about that.

Ok, its idea time.

I still need suggestions for the repair homunculus and the reformation node. I could do something along the lines of a quicksilver being that can assume whatever shape it needs or I could do a glowing orb that will repair the ship magically, or I could make a spiderlike being that can repair the ship. I could even make a smithy if that sounds interesting. Should the repair homunculus be a smaller Version of the reformation node or something entirely different? Is there something I have not thought of that would be cool looking?

For the apothecary bay I was thinking of a bench with a mortar and pestle and jars and bowls that sort of thing.

For the mirror image I was thinking of three orbs each with image of a the same ship in them.

For the see invisibility I was thinking of a large lens mounted in a bracket.

Any ideas for the combat sensors and multiplex tracking?

Any ideas for any other components are welcome.

[Fyron]

Should the repair homunculus be a smaller Version of the reformation node or something entirely different?

Entirely different.

[CovertJaguar]

Hmm... Ok, any suggestions?



EDIT: Here is the Apothecary:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Apothercary.png

[Ragnarok-X]

Wow, the mana shard generators look really cool. What programm are you using ? Are you doing postwork !?

[CovertJaguar]

Thanks, I use Rhino for the models and 3D Studio Max for the renders and no I do nothing beyond Max.

EDIT: Here is the See Invisibility:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/See%20Invisibility.png

EDIT 2: Here is the Repair Homunculus:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Repair%20Homunculus.png
I went with a spider magical construct. You like?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I know I like.

[CovertJaguar]

I introduce you to the Autonomous Constructs (please ignore their lack of a sense of humor and poor conversation skills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif ):
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Autonomous%20Construct.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Aggressive%20Autonomous%20Construct.png

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
I introduce you to the Autonomous Constructs (please ignore their lack of a sense of humor and poor conversation skills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif ):


Hmm... a little bland. Could you make them look more like the following image?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/EPIC_Gallery/Gallery5a/44170_C5_mithralgolem.jpg

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'Oh man I really gotta...'

Another of Narf's first impressions.

[CovertJaguar]

Umm.. Ok? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Anyway, you mean like this Fyron:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Autonomous%20Construct%20New.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Aggressive%20Autonomous%20Construct%20New.png

[Fyron]

Ooohh... yeah! Perhaps some nice bumpy spots on the red/blue parts, to give it a less metalic/technological feel? As in the image I posted. And while you are at it, might as well make a few other colors of these guys. I might want to add more types of master computers/autonomous constructs in the future, and different colors should be easy enough to render. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[douglas]

Why aren't there Hardy Industrialist Versions of the Space Yard Expansions?

[Fyron]

Imperator Fyron said:
Perhaps some nice bumpy spots on the red/blue parts, to give it a less metalic/technological feel?

Actually strike that, they need to be metallic... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Just less futuristic robot-looking.



douglas said:
Why aren't there Hardy Industrialist Versions of the Space Yard Expansions?



Didn't want it to be too powerful. There are no HI Versions of the Temporal Space Yards either.

[CovertJaguar]

Now, before I go and do the rest of the colors, is this what you mean by bumps?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red.png
I tried making the bumps glow, but then he reminded me of a Christmas Tree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I toned it down a little here:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Glowing%20Bumps.png
Which do you like better?

EDIT: I was fiddling around and came up with this:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Electric%20Glow.png
Does this help?

[Fyron]

Hmm... non-glowey looks better.

Looking better, but still says "robot" to me, rather than some sort of medieval-esque construct. Looks too, I dunno, well formed? Like it was produced in a modern factory. The parts look too smooth, too integrated, like if a huge factory was mass producing these things with high-tech laser welding and whatnot, rather than some wizard employing a blacksmith or whatever. Could you make the grey parts and the red parts look more like they are composed of various plates "welded" together as in the image I linked? Like thick parts of plate mail melded together or something... It just looks too "modern." Kind of hard to explain...

[CovertJaguar]

I could try coming up with some stone textures and see if that helps.

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
EDIT: I was fiddling around and came up with this:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Electric%20Glow.png
Does this help?

Hmm.. I may need to come up with some stone textures instead of the metalic ones.

Hey no fair now, editing your post while I was typing mine up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif This one definitely looks better (for the non-modernist approach at any rate). It will suffice if you can't make an even cooler texure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Sleep time for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[CovertJaguar]

I have a better texture and it looks pretty good at higher resolutions, but I just don't know if the small pics have a high enough level of detail to make a difference. I think it does look better though, stone is harder to make look realistic than metal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Stone.png

[Fyron]

That Last one looks pretty good, but why are the legs really bright and the torso really dark?

[CovertJaguar]

This Better?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Stone%20-%20Dark.png

EDIT: Or this one:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Stone%20-%20Rough.png

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Stone%20-%20Dark.png

This is good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Taste The Raindbow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Red%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Orange.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Yellow.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Green.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Blue.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Purple.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Golem%20-%20Grey.png

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me eats the robo-skittles.

[Krsqk]

CovertJaguar said:
Taste The Raindbow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif :



Power Rangers! What do they morph into? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me kills Power Rangers.

[Fyron]

/me pronounces Krsqk's name, and Krsqk promptly falls over dead. It was his only weakness...

[CovertJaguar]

Lol, you guys are weird. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

http://rotd.keenspace.com/d/20040603.html

[CovertJaguar]

I'm not sure what the comic has to do with anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif , but here is a self destruct device or perhaps something else. I'm not sure really:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Dark%20Orb.png


And Fyron were you aware that a Energy Detector Probing Organelle costs 160800 organics. Makes my ships take reaallly long to build. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
I'm not sure what the comic has to do with anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif , but here is a self destruct device or perhaps something else. I'm not sure really:

You could make a bunch of weird looking things like that and I am sure I could find some use for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


CovertJaguar said:
And Fyron were you aware that a Energy Detector Probing Organelle costs 160800 organics. Makes my ships take reaallly long to build. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

No I was not. Just use an obselete one for now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I don't see how the "robot" guy can control a whole ship, why not give him a bank of controls with round-knob levers and maybe I can see him doing such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Ed Kolis]

How about this for the autonomous magical constructs, actually... floating protomechanical heads with all kinds of glass tubing and arcane equipment projecting out of them (fulfilling Kwok's desire to have some link to the ship), and each type (aggressive/defensive/etc.) could have a different emotion as well as a different color, so the aggressive could be red and angry, while the defensive could be blue and wary, and the others... hmm, depends on what they are - I suppose there could be a Conservationist which is green and smiling and and reduces maintenance, or a - hmm, this is starting to remind me of Star Trek Mod's Captains; why can't you place Captains of different types on ships before you've researched Master Computers? Just use recolored population pics or something like PBC does for the various avatars http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(Great work though, CovertJaguar... have you submitted any of your work to Malfador to see if you can make art for SE5? Speaking of which, has anyone actually heard back about that? I remember one person said he was turned down, but I haven't heard back yet and I haven't heard any other reports... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

CovertJaguar said:
I'm not sure what the comic has to do with anything


Neither am I, but it seemed perfectly sensible to my tired mind yesterday.

[Aiken]

Guess that all approved artists signed NDA immediately. So we won't hear about their work until release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
And they don't declare of their approval on public because of extraordinary modesty, which is inherent to all artist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

One project is plenty for me, lol.

Who said that there was only one golem running the ship. There could be a whole host of golems represented by the picture. Or the the ship could be designed for one strong and fast golem to run. The golem stays.

Here is a possible candidate for the Displacement Device:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Displacement%20Device.png

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
I don't see how the "robot" guy can control a whole ship, why not give him a bank of controls with round-knob levers and maybe I can see him doing such. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

You misunderstand how spelljammers operate... they are controlled through magical force of will by a spellcaster or a group of spellcaster sitting in a specially created and enchanted helm (similar to a chair). There are no levers or buttons to push... These golems are merely infused with even more powerful magic that allows them to control the ship without the constant presence of a wizard or other spell caster.

[Captain Kwok]

Ok, sure. But why not throw in a few token knobs and levers they can move via spells? Their ships are going to be just plain boring otherwise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
Ok, sure. But why not throw in a few token knobs and levers they can move via spells?

Because that would be absurd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Imperator Fyron said:

Captain Kwok said:
Ok, sure. But why not throw in a few token knobs and levers they can move via spells?

Because that would be absurd. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Absurd would be having them with bubbling cauldrons... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Makinus]

Just a question: how good is the AI in the latest Version of Adamant? I´m tempted to play the mod but since i only play single player games nowadays i wish for a good challenge from the AI...

Even if the Ai is a little weaker, what settings would you recommend for me to boost the AI so the game would pose a good challenge (except the setting All AI against the Human player, because i like some diplomacy).

[Fyron]

If you regularly squash TDM AIs with your hands tied behind your back and your eyes closed, the Adamant AI will be woefully inadequate, as will non-cheating AIs in any mod. If the stock game AI is still fun to play against, the Adamant AI should be good enough. It is a bit homogenous (as in, races will tend to use the same designs, research paths, etc.), but then, so is the stock game AI... There are likely still a few quirks here and there, but they are minor in comparison to what has been fixed in recent Versions... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Makinus said:Even if the Ai is a little weaker, what settings would you recommend for me to boost the AI so the game would pose a good challenge (except the setting All AI against the Human player, because i like some diplomacy).

You could always play a tougher race... Leave your maintenance reduction at even and put the points into politics, for example.

[Makinus]

If i did a 0 point race against the AI 3000 point races (20 races/medium size map) with a small bonus the Ai in Adamant would be strong enough to give a chalenge to an average player?

Just so you can measure my level: I can beat Stock AI with Medium bonus without big problems, TDM AIs without bonus i can take without much problems too, but i never defeated an human player...

[Fyron]

It is hard to say. Play and find out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CovertJaguar]

And here is the mirror image:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mirror%20Image.png

EDIT: Here is the astral sail:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Sail.png

[Captain Kwok]

I like that astral sail.

[Fyron]

Has anyone been playing the mod against the AI, and if so, how has the AI been doing?

[Makinus]

I´ve been trying to install the latest Version of Adamant FQM mod (found in adamant.spaceempires.net) and i noticed 2 small bugs that probably were already noted but, there goes:

First, there is a typo in the file Data\TechArea.txt in the area Advanced Tactical Maneuvers that is copied in all the AI files, except for the file AI\Default_Ai_Research.txt where it is spelled right (Advanced Tactical Manuevers) generating an error in the loading of the mod...

Second, the Tylmai race directory don´t have the AI pictures, creating an error when you are browsing the races to design your own race...

The first one i crrected without problems, but where i can find the Tylmai race pics?

thanks

[Fyron]

You seem to have downloaded an old Version of the mod. The "FQM" Version of 0.15.00 has not yet been uploaded. You'll need to download the 0.15.00 Full file. You can simply copy the Pictures\Systems folder from the current installation of Adamant to the folder created by installing 0.15.00 (it is not a good idea to simply install 0.15.00 over 0.14.xx).

[CovertJaguar]

Been busy the Last few days, but I had some free time today.

I was wondering, Fyron, was this anything like what you had in mind for the dimensional pockets?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Bag.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Chest.png

[Captain Kwok]

I think the trunk works well for the magic cargo bay.

[CovertJaguar]

There are two sizes of cargo bays that need pictures, not to mention the racial trait specials. Does the bag work for the small one or should I do a different style trunk or a barrel or something?

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:

I was wondering, Fyron, was this anything like what you had in mind for the dimensional pockets?

I didn't really have anything in particular in mind... The AST Versions don't really need separate images, unless you really want to make them... they should be quite similar to the regular Versions, maybe of a different shade, or slightly larger or something...

[CovertJaguar]

It doesn't really matter to me, I'll just whip up a couple with different coloring for the AST tommorrow.

[Captain Kwok]

The sack one reminds me of Santa. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
The sack one reminds me of Santa. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Or the classic bag of holding...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me drops a portable dimensional portal into the bag and runs away fast.

[CovertJaguar]

I don't remember exactly what happens if you do that, but I remember it being very very bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Something along the lines of ripping open a dimensional rift. You don't want to be anywhere nearby when it happens.

Anyways, here are the other ones:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Bag%20-%20Purple.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Chest%20-%20Purple.png

EDIT: And Behold the Astral Horse:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Horse.png
This one took a while, it was actually the first time I attemped this complex a model. I think it turned out well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Neigh!!!

[Ed Kolis]

CovertJaguar, you NEED to contact Aaron Hall about developing art for SE5, NOW! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Indeed, great !

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Like the horse. And the other stuff, but I'm pretty sure I already said that.

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar, could you please repost the following images with black backgrounds, rather than transparent? Thanks.

Summoning Circle 2.png
Scrying Pool 2.png
Flag Bridge.png
New Minor Helm.png
Atmosphere Generator.png
Luxurious Crew Quarters.png
Basic Helm.png
Major Helm.png

[CovertJaguar]

Here you go:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Scrying%20Pool%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Flag%20Bridge%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Minor%20Helm%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Basic%20Helm%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Major%20Helm%20-%20Final.png

You are going to use the blue summoning circle?
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Summoning%20Circle%20-%20Blue%20-%20Final.png

You only want the Atmosphere Generator? I'll post both the minor and major ones anyway:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Basic%20Atmosphere%20Generator%20-%20Final.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Atmosphere%20Generator%20-%20Final.png

I think I'm going to redo the Luxurious Crew Quarters. I can give you the spartan ones that I just finished though:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Spartan%20Crew%20Quarters.png


CovertJaguar, you NEED to contact Aaron Hall about developing art for SE5, NOW!

As I said before I really don't have time for more than one project. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[Fyron]

You are going to use the blue summoning circle?

Wouldn't hurt to have two Versions, on for normal races and one for Zero Gravity Engineers. Or even to distinguish between ship and base mounted space yards (which are quite different in abilities) instead.

[CovertJaguar]

I could do more colors of the summoning circles if you want them.

Here are the normal Crew Quarters:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Crew%20Quarters.png

And here are the Luxurious Crew Quarters:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Luxurious%20Crew%20Quarters%20-%20Inside.png

EDIT: Here is the Staff of Teleportation:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Staff%20of%20Teleportation.png

EDIT2: Here is the Telescope:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Telescope.png

Here is the Astral Collector:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Collector.png

[CovertJaguar]

Am I the only one here today? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Anyway I have some more, the Astral Monster Gates:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Monster%20Gate%20-%20Purple.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Monster%20Gate%20-%20Red.png

[Captain Kwok]

The monster gates look a little too bright.

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
The monster gates look a little too bright.

Indeed. The Staff of Teleportation is as well. I would prefer a minimum of random light glares like that.

[Captain Kwok]

I really like the astral collector.

[CovertJaguar]

I really like the astral collector.


Yah, that one turned out really well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



As for the less flare effects, do these look better:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Staff%20of%20Teleportation%20-%20No%20Flare.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Monster%20Gate%20-%20Blue.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Monster%20Gate%20-%20Purple%20-%20No%20Flare.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Astral%20Monster%20Gate%20-%20Red%20-%20No%20Flare.png

[Captain Kwok]

They work for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
As for the less flare effects, do these look better:

Yes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I like both of them, but the brighter ones are too bright.

[Ragnarok-X]

I like the bright ones, because i somehow think magic and brightness are connected http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[CovertJaguar]

I'll admit that the gates were too bright, but I have to agree with Ragnarok-X on the staff; however, Fyron's vote counts more than the rest of ours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Fyron]

In my opinion, brightly glowing flares around components are just distracting, not really adding much to the visual appeal...

Oh, and please don't get the erroneous impression that I am satisfied with the image currently being used for Mana Barriers... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Real subtle Fyron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I was going to get to them eventually. I'm just not sure what to do, yet. Any ideas? I was thinking about something with crystals, everyone seems to like those ones. If fact if anyone has any ideas for the contingency device launcher, recon satellite launcher, some of the other engine components, the hunter-killer homunculi, the reformation node, and glyph detector that would be helpful.

Additionally Fyron I think you should think about renaming the psychotropic drugs, multiplex tracking, and combat sensors, and anything else that may need renaming before I make pics for them.

And while I'm at it I have the first weapon pic, the Prismatic Sphere:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Prismatic%20Sphere.png
Opinions?

Additionally I've been sitting on this one for a while, I figure I might as well post it and see what you guys had to say. It a possiblity for the Contingency Spell:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Spell.png
Opinions?

[Kamog]

Those are very beautiful component pictures, CovertJaguar! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
The details and lighting effects are just magnificent. I especially like the Astral Horse. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
Additionally Fyron I think you should think about renaming the psychotropic drugs, multiplex tracking, and combat sensors, and anything else that may need renaming before I make pics for them.

Other than psychotropic drugs, components like these without magic-sounding names are components for which I was unable to think of any good ideas... Suggestions are welcome.

As for psychotropic drugs, I don't see any reason why magic-weilding races couldn't concoct such substances with alchemical processes, possibly aided by a bit of magic.


And while I'm at it I have the first weapon pic, the Prismatic Sphere:
Opinions?

Very nice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif However, when reduced to a 36x36 mini, the bright white parts seem to take over, resulting in a component that will look rather detracting when shown with all of the other components on a ship. It looks good as is for the portrait image, but the mini just looks like a big white glob, losing much of the cool swirly effects in the upper hemisphere. Perhaps the white part in the top central area could be changed to a different color, or reduced in area, so that there is more pink between the white regions?

Could you make a "Torpedo" combat image for this, so that the prismatic sphere will have an appropriate display when fired in combat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Additionally I've been sitting on this one for a while, I figure I might as well post it and see what you guys had to say. It a possiblity for the Contingency Spell:
Opinions?

Hmm... This definitely has an even more pronounced brightness takeover affect for the 36x36 mini than the primsatic sphere image. The D&D contingency spell that the devices were based off of essentially finishes the casting of another spell, prepared at the time of the casting of the contingency, when a specified event occurs. Not entirely certain how this would translate visually to the SE4 entity... Perhaps some sort of archaic looking device with glowing runes etched on it?

[CovertJaguar]

Poster: Kamog

Those are very beautiful component pictures, CovertJaguar!
The details and lighting effects are just magnificent. I especially like the Astral Horse.



Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



Poster: Imperator Fyron
As for psychotropic drugs, I don't see any reason why magic-weilding races couldn't concoct such substances with alchemical processes, possibly aided by a bit of magic.


Wouldn't that make it a potion then, because I'm sure they aren't going to use a syringe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

As for the combat sensors, how about some kind of compass perhaps. Magic Compass. Aiming Compass. Homing Compass. Something like that perhaps, that would be easy enough to make a pic for.


Very nice. However, when reduced to a 36x36 mini, the bright white parts seem to take over, resulting in a component that will look rather detracting when shown with all of the other components on a ship. It looks good as is for the portrait image, but the mini just looks like a big white glob, losing much of the cool swirly effects in the upper hemisphere. Perhaps the white part in the top central area could be changed to a different color, or reduced in area, so that there is more pink between the white regions?


The texture is generated randomly. I can play around with the seed value and see what I come up with tomorrow. If all else fails I think I could edit it manually.


Could you make a "Torpedo" combat image for this, so that the prismatic sphere will have an appropriate display when fired in combat?


I will have to do some research as to what is needed, but yah I can probably do it.


mm... This definitely has an even more pronounced brightness takeover affect for the 36x36 mini than the primsatic sphere image. The D&D contingency spell that the devices were based off of essentially finishes the casting of another spell, prepared at the time of the casting of the contingency, when a specified event occurs. Not entirely certain how this would translate visually to the SE4 entity... Perhaps some sort of archaic looking device with glowing runes etched on it?


I was never really satisfied with it anyway. That's why I haven't done anything with it for about a week and half. I just happened to notice it today, and decided to see what you thought.

P.S. I have played Baldur's Gate and know full well what a contingency spell is. Usefull things along with the sequencer spells. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

EDIT: Wait a minute! That's it! The Multiplex Tracking could be a sequencer spell. Use one spell to cast multiply spells at once. Perfect! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Aiken]

Psychotropic Drugs -> Berserk Potion (or Spell).

[Captain Kwok]

Yeah, the berserk potion would be in a little erlenmeyer flask with bubbles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Is this Sphere better?
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Prismatic%20Sphere%20-%20Option%202.png

EDIT: That was easy enough, here is the torpedo pic:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Prismatic%20torp.png

[Aiken]

Yes, and the mini image looks good too.

CovertJaguar you make very impessive art. Thumbs up!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Now, if it was a plasma display, you could watch it for hours...

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
Is this Sphere better?

Perfect! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CovertJaguar]

That's good, but what about the rest of the stuff I posted about yesterday, Fyron? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

EDIT: Here is another possiblitity for the Contingecy Device:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Contigency%20Spell.png
I can make the stone any color you might like.

[Ragnarok-X]

Wow, thats a pretty awesome picture. Really good !!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Oooh...Aaaah...

[CovertJaguar]

You guy like this better than the Last one?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Contigency%20Spell%20-%20Black%20Stone.png

And I have some possible shield generators:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Generator%20-%20No%20Shield.png http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Generator%20-%20With%20Shield.png
Do you like the one with the shield or the one with out better?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ooooh...Aaaah...

[CovertJaguar]

Poster: narf poit chez BOOM

Ooooh...Aaaah...


Could you perhaps be a little more specific? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

What, one more 'o' and 'a' isn't enough for you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I like the new wheel-thingy better. The other two look kinda toy-like.

[Fyron]

Contingency:
Yeah, the black one is somehow more appealing than the bluish one.

Mana Barrier:
I'd go with the one without the bubble thingie. What exactly the shield energy looks like is dependent upon the specific race.

[CovertJaguar]

Does this one look less toy like, narf?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Generator%20-%20No%20Shield%202.png


And Fyron, what about my name suggestions? The compass and spell sequencer? You did see the post right? I do need to know this stuff before I can make images for them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

No, it's how they are lit and colored. They look pLastic.

[Fyron]

I am not really sure how a compass lets you fire more accurately... the sequencer seems like a good enough idea though.

[CovertJaguar]

Compass was the only thing I could think of. I'll have to think about that one some more. An accuracy spell maybe?

This better, narf?:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Generator%20-%20No%20Shield%203.png
Surely it can't still look pLastic?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

More glassy, less pLasticy. Maybe try to add some sparkle.

[CovertJaguar]

Last one tonight, I like this one:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Generator%20-%20No%20Shield%205.png

[Captain Kwok]

That Last one looks nice.

[Ragnarok-X]

Well to be honest: I like all of them !! Put all of them in the mod, Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Better.

[CovertJaguar]

Lol, I don't know what to say narf, I can't get it much better.

I do, however, have the shield regenerator:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shield%20Regenerator.png

[CovertJaguar]

And here is the Thunder Lance:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Thunder%20Lance.png

EDIT: And Here is the Etheral Lance:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Etheral%20Lance.png

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yeah, unless you can get a rainbow effect I think that's good enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oooooh...Aaaaah...

[Ed Kolis]

How's this Multifaceted Sensory Input Node (2)?

http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/Multifaceted_Sensory_Input_Node_2.png

The 3/4/5 levels will have more eyestalks, of course - I will try not to make them look not too much like Beholders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(BTW, the Adamant thread slipped off the first page??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Looks organic, which is probably what you wanted.

[CovertJaguar]

Poster: Ed Kolis
(BTW, the Adamant thread slipped off the first page??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif )


Sorry, that would be my fault. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But I have pics to make up for it.

Here is the WildSphere weapon:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Wildsphere.png

And the Chaos Ripple:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Chaos%20Ripple.png

[Captain Kwok]

Those are really cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[CovertJaguar]

I have more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

The Buffeting Winds:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Buffeting%20Winds.png

And the Ensnaring Winds:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Ensnaring%20Winds.png

[Atrocities]

Fyron can you post a comprehensive list of your components so that we can gain a better idea of what you have? Seprate them by type, IE normal, organic, magic, other.

I would like to contribute some more to your mod and would enjoy making a few more components.

[Atrocities]

Meet the SJ (Space Junkie) Machine race.

http://www.astmod.com/fyron/fyron1.PNG http://www.astmod.com/fyron/fyron2.PNG http://www.astmod.com/fyron/fyron3.PNG http://www.astmod.com/fyron/fyron4.PNG

[XenoTheMorph]

Oooh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Another race to crush http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Makinus]

Hey Atrocities! These shipset is ready? Where i can get it?

[Ed Kolis]

No shadows Version of that multisensory node thingy:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin2_noshadows.png

[Captain Kwok]

Ed, you may want to keep the lighted Version because it looks better first of all, but also because it will resize better for the mini image. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Fyron]

Via IM we worked out a new Version... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin2_3.png

[Captain Kwok]

I like the new Version.

[Ed Kolis]

Here is the whole component family:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin2.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin3.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin4.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin5.png

[Aiken]

Nice shaggy thingie! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Makinus said:
Hey Atrocities! These shipset is ready? Where i can get it?



Soon.

I take it that no one else like them though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Aiken]

Atrocities said:

Makinus said:
Hey Atrocities! These shipset is ready? Where i can get it?



Soon.

I take it that no one else like them though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif


Uh, why? I think you made a very good ships, not the best ones, but very good.
They're difficult to distinguish from each other though, especially on top-down minis.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Pretty pictures. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Makinus]

any idea when a Version with all these nice pictures will be released?

[solops]

Ed Kolis said:
Here is the whole component family:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin2.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin3.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin4.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/msin5.png



Looks like a green Beholder.

[Ed Kolis]

solops said:
Looks like a green Beholder.



Darn, I was trying not to make the resemblance TOO obvious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
But yes, the Beholder was my inspiration for this component...
Next I'll work on the Bioelectric Arc Gun / Electric Discharge / Lightning Ray series, since those 3 all use the same image, which necessitates right-clicking on the component when you encounter it in an enemy design http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
I've already done the Bioelectric Arc Gun:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/BioElectricArcGun.png

[Fyron]

Makinus said:
any idea when a Version with all these nice pictures will be released?

I didn't want to bombard the Image Mod with new updates every day, so I was waiting for some sort of stability to be reached... which of course has not happened, since new images keep being posted every few days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

CovertJaguar and Ekolis, could you guys package all of the images you have completed in the form of an Image Mod submission on Friday and post the package? I probably won't have much time to make an update until the weekend... BMP format, properly named for SE4 use, preferably with currently unused numbers for Component Pack 23d (probably should tell each other what numbers you will be using to prevent overlaps), with a minis file and credits.txt info? We could make this an every other week sort of affair or something...

[Ed Kolis]

If we each make our own minis file that would require collating the two, which would be a PITA to cut and paste with pixel accuracy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Hmm, I have an idea for a new project! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
A program which takes unnumbered component images and assigns them to slots in the Imagemod!
Basically, it would search for any bitmaps in a folder which are not already named "Comp_n.bmp" where n is a number. Then, it would assign those to slots where there's a missing entry in the sequence. Finally - here's the cool part - it would automatically generate all the mini images and conglomerate them together into a Components.bmp! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Seems pretty easy, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
edit: hey, this would be even cooler - what if it were implemented as a PHP script so all you'd have to do to add to the imagemod is upload a BMP to a special page, and the script would take care of the rest... bingo, realtime updated imagemod with no need for SJ or Fyron to add stuff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Atrocities]

You know, making organic components is pure imagination. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fyron]

edit: hey, this would be even cooler - what if it were implemented as a PHP script so all you'd have to do to add to the imagemod is upload a BMP to a special page, and the script would take care of the rest... bingo, realtime updated imagemod with no need for SJ or Fyron to add stuff!

Taking out any sort of peer review in the process is IMO a bad idea...


If we each make our own minis file that would require collating the two, which would be a PITA to cut and paste with pixel accuracy...

I did suggest telling each other which slots you would be using... Even if you don't, it is a very simple matter to renumber component files and move minis to a different slot.

[XenoTheMorph]

Ed how about making an organic Fanatical Command type component to go with CJ's new Magic paradigim one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Fanatic%20Command.png

Not that I have any idea what it would be or look like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
Anyone else have an idea?

[Ed Kolis]

I dunno, but for some reason Zerg and Ithkul come to mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

As of this moment I have 57 images done. If that helps any.

[PvK]

Atrocities said:
Meet the SJ (Space Junkie) Machine race.
...



Those are nice!

PvK

[CovertJaguar]

So, um... how are we doing this Image pack update? Are we going to assign a range of numbers to each of us? As I said before I have 57 images done.

I hope to have some time to do some more images over Thanksgiving.

[Fyron]

How many images do you plan on making?

[CovertJaguar]

How many do you want? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Do you want a full set, one for every magic component? Including say the spacial manipulation components. It appears that without the spacial manipulation components there are still 45-50 components without magic themed images, 60-65 with them. Grand total, I pretty sure I will not do more that 130 pics max for the magic paradigm.

[Fyron]

A picture for every magic component would be nice... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Probably excessive to make different Versions of the image for every level of every component though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

There are 24 components per line, so would 6 lines in the minis file suffice? That is 144 images. More than 130 certainly... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif You could start at 1780, and reserve up to 1920 (if I did the math correctly). That would be 141 images. Ekolis would then start at 1921.

[XenoTheMorph]

Oooh *drool*

CJ your a glutton for punishment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif
Fyron you are a slave driver! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Carry on!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

P.s. Fyron hows the Adamant 13 problem going?

[CovertJaguar]

There are 24 components per line, so would 6 lines in the minis file suffice? That is 144 images. More than 130 certainly... You could start at 1780, and reserve up to 1920 (if I did the math correctly). That would be 141 images. Ekolis would then start at 1921.


Sounds good to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif


Poster: XenoTheMorph
Oooh *drool*

CJ your a glutton for punishment.
Fyron you are a slave driver!

Carry on!!!


The more ideas I get the easier it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ed Kolis]

I have made, umm, four images http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
And Fyron didn't like the texture on the Last one, said it was too mossy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/BioElectricArcGun.png
What SHOULD a bioelectric arc gun look like then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

XenoTheMorph said:
Oooh *drool*

CJ your a glutton for punishment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif
Fyron you are a slave driver! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Carry on!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Hey, who am I to stop him when he is having so much fun? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


XenoTheMorph said:
P.s. Fyron hows the Adamant 13 problem going?

Slowly.


Ed Kolis said:
What SHOULD a bioelectric arc gun look like then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I just think it should look smoother, and less bumpy/fuzzy...

[douglas]

In the Galactic Invasion game using the latest Version of the mod, the monsters don't seem to be designing ships correctly. I'm pretty sure this is because the shipsets they're using have AI files designed for monsters in a different mod (they do at least have cloaking bases and hate everyone). It's too late to help for this game unless we restart, but I think you should add a monster race minister style so working monster races aren't restricted to one specific shipset. For this game, I think we'll need a PBW admin to make a copy of the three shipsets in the Adamant mod directory and overwrite their AI files.

[Aiken]

I thought about the same. Except, it'd our task to make 3 monster AIs (just copy AI files over) and ask pbw admins to replace existing shipsets with modified ones.

Also, Monster AI in Adamant has an error in AI_designcreation file: Base Space Yard design has no Space Yard ability call.

[Fyron]

aiken said:
Also, Monster AI in Adamant has an error in AI_designcreation file: Base Space Yard design has no Space Yard ability call.

This is how Rollo designed them... the BSY is not meant as a base space yard, but merely as a platform for the sector cloaking ability. I seem to recall that the AI only uses BSYs to construct units. Since the Space Monster homeworld can effectively never be attacked, having units on it would only have wasted resources.


douglass said:
In the Galactic Invasion game using the latest Version of the mod, the monsters don't seem to be designing ships correctly.

Strange, they worked perfectly in a test game I just ran. The only thing I can think of is that the game host added them to the game incorrectly, so they are not using the Space Monster AI files.


douglass said:
I'm pretty sure this is because the shipsets they're using have AI files designed for monsters in a different mod (they do at least have cloaking bases and hate everyone).

The Space Monsters have their own ship and base sizes, and do not have any access to the "normal" vehicles, due to racial traits. This is not an issue.


douglass said:
It's too late to help for this game unless we restart, but I think you should add a monster race minister style so working monster races aren't restricted to one specific shipset.

Hmm... not a bad idea. Not positive that it will work as desired, but I shall look into it.

[douglas]

Imperator Fyron said:

aiken said:
Also, Monster AI in Adamant has an error in AI_designcreation file: Base Space Yard design has no Space Yard ability call.

This is how Rollo designed them... the BSY is not meant as a base space yard, but merely as a platform for the sector cloaking ability. I seem to recall that the AI only uses BSYs to construct units. Since the Space Monster homeworld can effectively never be attacked, having units on it would only have wasted resources.

I just checked one of my single player games, and the AI had several BSYs building ships.


Imperator Fyron said:

douglass said:
In the Galactic Invasion game using the latest Version of the mod, the monsters don't seem to be designing ships correctly.

Strange, they worked perfectly in a test game I just ran. The only thing I can think of is that the game host added them to the game incorrectly, so they are not using the Space Monster AI files.


douglass said:
I'm pretty sure this is because the shipsets they're using have AI files designed for monsters in a different mod (they do at least have cloaking bases and hate everyone).

The Space Monsters have their own ship and base sizes, and do not have any access to the "normal" vehicles, due to racial traits. This is not an issue.

The game host didn't know any better and gave the monster races Imperial Aspirations, Physical Race, and Nomads as well as the Space Monster traits. I'd suggest making the Space Monster traits cost 30000 together and require Imperial Aspirations so this mistake is a lot harder to make. Even if he hadn't done that, in the test game I ran with a monster race using the aggressive minister style (deliberately NOT using correct Space Monster AI) and a high tech start, the monsters it designed had no weapons. I'm pretty sure this happened because the AI files called for a weapon family the race didn't have access to, and the AI doesn't have a backup way of picking weapons.

[Ed Kolis]

Here's a modified Version of the Bioelectric Arc Gun, as well as an Electric Discharge and Lightning Ray:

http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/BioElectricArcGunLessGlossy.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/ElectricDischargeLessGlossy.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/LightningRayLessGlossy.png

Note that the Electric Discharge and Lightning Ray use the same image in stock, so any modders (i.e. not just Fyron) who want to differentiate between the two might want to use my images! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Aiken]

Electric charge itself needs slightly different color imo, such as light blue, maybe.

[Ed Kolis]

Well my intent was for it to be dazzlingly intense... hmm, maybe the discharge should also illuminate the gun as if it were a light - that would be cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[CovertJaguar]

My image mod submission is ready Fyron. What do you want me to do with it. It is 3.143 MB.



In regards to the Galatic Invasion Game:

Can our game be fixed or are we stuck with disfunctional monsters unless we restart? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Fyron]

douglas said:
I just checked one of my single player games, and the AI had several BSYs building ships.

Guess my information is outdated then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The monsters might possibly expand too quickly if they construct a bunch of BSYs. Of course, I think they might need some revamping to be able to glass planets in Adamant anyways...


douglass said:
The game host didn't know any better and gave the monster races Imperial Aspirations, Physical Race, and Nomads as well as the Space Monster traits. I'd suggest making the Space Monster traits cost 30000 together and require Imperial Aspirations so this mistake is a lot harder to make.

Actually I already did that for 0.16.00. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


douglass said:
Even if he hadn't done that, in the test game I ran with a monster race using the aggressive minister style (deliberately NOT using correct Space Monster AI) and a high tech start, the monsters it designed had no weapons. I'm pretty sure this happened because the AI files called for a weapon family the race didn't have access to, and the AI doesn't have a backup way of picking weapons.

Well using the generic AI files for any race is generally a bad idea... except possibly a physical race, but that is all.


CovertJaguar said:
My image mod submission is ready Fyron. What do you want me to do with it. It is 3.143 MB.

Generally, you would want to upload it to a post in this thread: Space Empires IV: Data/Sound/Graphic (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=213510). Then, post a link here.


CovertJaguar said:
Can our game be fixed or are we stuck with disfunctional monsters unless we restart?

The AI files for the shipsets used as the monsters (if "use style from race" was not selected) or the generic AI files could be overwritten with the Space Monsters' AI files on PBW for that Version of the mod... This should allow the monsters to start functioning correctly. Not sure if any other games are using Adamant 0.15.02 on PBW or not...

[CovertJaguar]

Here you go:
Image Mod Submission (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=312552)

[Ed Kolis]

New Versions of the organic discharge weapons:
http://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/BioElectricArcGunGlow.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/ElectricDischargeGlow.pnghttp://home.fuse.net/koliset/SE4/LightningRayGlow.png

[Captain Kwok]

Contrary to Sir Fyron, I liked the fuzzy Versions better - and with the "discharge" regions, they need to have more color, either a yellowish tinge or lightning blue might be suitable. Perhaps you can use different colours of "discharges" to help differentiate between them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
Contrary to Sir Fyron, I liked the fuzzy Versions better...

Organic ships are neither space mold (or moss) nor green teddy bears... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Aiken]

Hmm, and what are they? Have you seen organic ships recently? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

aiken said:
Hmm, and what are they? Have you seen organic ships recently? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Yes, I saw a fleet of them just the other day.

[Aiken]

Imperator Fyron said:

aiken said:
Hmm, and what are they? Have you seen organic ships recently? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Yes, I saw a fleet of them just the other day.


I hope this fleet was not under YOUR command http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Fyron]

/me whistles non-chalantly.

[brianeyci]

Fyron, the Space Monsters aren't working properly in my Adamant 15.02 game.



I'm pretty sure their AI is not set up correctly. Which AI files they use
is determined at empire setup by either your choice of minister style
(aggressive, backup, defensive, or neutral) or shipset (if Use Race
Minister Style is selected). Now, considering their behavior (instantly
declaring war), the cloaking bases, and their monster tech research, I'm
guessing you selected Use Race Minister Style with some shipsets that were
designed for monster races in a different mod. If I'm correct, they can be
fixed with the help of a PBW admin. You'll have to get the three shipsets
copied into the Adamant mod directory we're using and have their AI files
overwritten with the Adamant Monster AI files.

Douglas Miller




I got the monster AI somewhere, copied it to the Adamant folder, and when creating the monster races selected the "monster" ai from the folder I created. Here (http://individual.utoronto.ca/brianlim/Monsters.rar) is the AI I used. Is this the correct Adamant Mod monster AI, and if not is there a way to fix it without trashing the game? Appreciate help Fyron.

Brian

[Fyron]

That looks like the Space Monster AI directly from Devnull Mod... It was modified and adapted (really just the AI_General.txt file) when I added the Space Monsters to Adamant. However, all of the other AI files are the same as the originals from Devnull...

When you manually added the space monsters, did you choose to use an AI minister style ("Using Selected Style"), or to "Use Style from Race?" Either way, it can be fixed. It just gets really messy if you did not select "Using Style from Race..."

[Aiken]

brianeyci, I have a pretty stupid question to you, but such things used to happend to me, so: have you changed names of the AI files from Monster_AI_something.txt to, say, MokAkah_AI_something.txt after you've copied them?

[brianeyci]

Fyron, I used the AI minister style "use selected style" option. I created a folder for the monster AI alongside "agressive" "neutral" and "defensive" called "Monster"

Aiken, I didn't change the name of the AI files because I chose "use selected style", not "use style from race"

Brian

[Aiken]

brianeyci, I'll post here your reply to my email. I hope you don't mind.

Yes, they have researched tiny space monster hull and created an "attack base"
with a ****load of monster PD, monster beam weapon, monster armor, etc.

Brian

So does it mean that AI is ok? Probably they were lacking good monster designs because of absence of suitable ship sizes? Smallest monster design is Attack Base (290 kt), demanding Tiny Space Monster hull, which is not available from start, since it requires Monster tech lvl 2.
Probably it looked like this:
Monster race decided to build Attack Ship design ("Entry 2 Type := Attack Ship" in AI_constructionvehicle.txt), but nearest monstrish attack ship design requires 410 kt hull.
It didn't have such ship hull.
So it took AS design from another AI set (from other generic AI or from actual race directory).
And we've seen monster scouts armed with DUCs.

To avoid this situation in the future, one could make separate attack ship design for hulls less than 410 kt, and probably make Tiny Space Monster ship size available from start.

[brianeyci]

Hrm. So when does the AI decide to create new designs? The problem is that the AI has researched monster tech II, but has started researching nuclear propulsion and standard armor tech, meaning the monster AI is not working (they should be researching monster tech I believe).

Will the AI continue to use default AI, or start designing monsters and researching like monsters?

Brian

[brianeyci]

Well I took another look. You need monster level 3 to build tiny space monster, and they can't make them yet.

Right now they are designing hybrid ships, mostly with monster organic armor armed with DUCV. (Yes they have DUCV now). They also use normal armor as well.

Quite an unexpected turn, and not totally unenjoyable. Lets see how the AI runs for a few turns before we "fix" it. Maybe they'll eventually research small space monster and start making them -- although I doubt it, because level 3 monster tech requires 900000 research and the AI only has 50k research.

Brian

[Aiken]

brianeyci said:
Hrm. So when does the AI decide to create new designs? The problem is that the AI has researched monster tech II, but has started researching nuclear propulsion and standard armor tech, meaning the monster AI is not working (they should be researching monster tech I believe).
Brian


I don't know why this happens. Ideally they should research Monster tech only (as monsters). But from another hand, default AI will never research Monster tech, because this tech is excluded from default_research file.
So our monsters have neither default AI nor monster's AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif The only reason I can think about is the influence of the Physical trait (which grants access to a bunch of phys techs). Normally devnull monsters (unlike our monsters) have no access to common weapon and components.

Will the AI continue to use default AI, or start designing monsters and researching like monsters?


I can hardly answer this question http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I'd suggest to resume game [twas imo], but keep an eye on monster's development.
As a Last resort, we can always arrange small civil war amongst platers to balance things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Fyron]

brianeyci said:
Fyron, I used the AI minister style "use selected style" option. I created a folder for the monster AI alongside "agressive" "neutral" and "defensive" called "Monster"

Aiken, I didn't change the name of the AI files because I chose "use selected style", not "use style from race"

Brian

PBW can not use race styles that do not exist in the mod files on PBW... A new AI folder would need adding...

[Aiken]

brianeyci said:
Well I took another look. You need monster level 3 to build tiny space monster, and they can't make them yet.
Brian

Nope.
Name := Tiny Space Monster
...
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Monster Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 2

Hmm, why so little research points? Did you count AI bonus multipliers?

[Fyron]

aiken said:
So does it mean that AI is ok? Probably they were lacking good monster designs because of absence of suitable ship sizes? Smallest monster design is Attack Base (290 kt), demanding Tiny Space Monster hull, which is not available from start, since it requires Monster tech lvl 2.
Probably it looked like this:
Monster race decided to build Attack Ship design ("Entry 2 Type := Attack Ship" in AI_constructionvehicle.txt), but nearest monstrish attack ship design requires 410 kt hull.
It didn't have such ship hull.
So it took AS design from another AI set (from other generic AI or from actual race directory).
And we've seen monster scouts armed with DUCs.

To avoid this situation in the future, one could make separate attack ship design for hulls less than 410 kt, and probably make Tiny Space Monster ship size available from start.

Unless an illegal Paradigm trait was assigned to the Space Monsters, they only have access to monster hulls. No escorts, scouts, battlestations, etc.


make Tiny Space Monster ship size available from start.

No. This was done to cause a delay before the monsters start building ships to eat you with in low tech start games. They can not and will not design bizarre ships when set up properly (ie: actually using Space Monster AI files and the proper racial traits).

[Fyron]

brianeyci said:
Well I took another look. You need monster level 3 to build tiny space monster, and they can't make them yet.

Right now they are designing hybrid ships, mostly with monster organic armor armed with DUCV. (Yes they have DUCV now). They also use normal armor as well.

Quite an unexpected turn, and not totally unenjoyable. Lets see how the AI runs for a few turns before we "fix" it. Maybe they'll eventually research small space monster and start making them -- although I doubt it, because level 3 monster tech requires 900000 research and the AI only has 50k research.

Brian

The problem here seems to be that you assigned Physical Race to the Monsters, which you should not have done...

[Fyron]

Thanks to Georgig, there is now a Monster folder in the AI folder... this may or may not be sufficient to get the Space Monsters behaving like monsters. The Physical Race trait might still interfere somewhat though...

[brianeyci]

Imperator Fyron said:
Thanks to Georgig, there is now a Monster folder in the AI folder... this may or may not be sufficient to get the Space Monsters behaving like monsters. The Physical Race trait might still interfere somewhat though...



Thanks Fyron. Appreciate your help.

Is physical race selected by default?

Unfortunately another small nitpick -- the folder is called "monsters" not "monster", with a capital M.

Brian

[Fyron]

brianeyci said:
Is physical race selected by default?

No. It is wrong for Monsters to have any of the paradigm traits.


brianeyci said:
Unfortunately another small nitpick -- the folder is called "monsters" not "monster", with a capital M.

I just went by what you had posted...

[Fyron]

brianeyci said:
Unfortunately another small nitpick -- the folder is called "monsters" not "monster", with a capital M.

This is now corrected.

[XenoTheMorph]

Fyron,

I've just found a strange thing while looking through the available techs/facilites I can get in my magic paradigam Adamant 13 game.
It seems that even without any 'Ethreality' techs (at all) I can get a 'Planetary Ethreal Mana barrier VI'! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif
It may be unlikely that someone would get to this level in 'Protective Barriers' without any level in 'Ethreality' (especially since it is only 5000 reaserch!) but it can! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif (well I have!)
Maybe you should make all the Ethreal mana barriers need level 1 of 'Ethreality at' minimum for 'realism'.

Of course this may effect the other paradigms aswell I've not checked

Just my 2 pennys! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Ahh... Finally a break. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif And in honor of Thankgiving break I have a new pic. The Lightning Bolt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Lightning%20Bolt.png

[Mylon]

How does this mod fair in single player? I'm generally too impatient to play 1 turn per day and a good AI is good enough for me.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

CovertJaguar said:
Ahh... Finally a break. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif And in honor of Thankgiving break I have a new pic. The Lightning Bolt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Lightning%20Bolt.png


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif/5

[CovertJaguar]

You liked that one huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Well, I'm sure you like this one then. The Shock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shock.png





Poster: Mylon

How does this mod fair in single player? I'm generally too impatient to play 1 turn per day and a good AI is good enough for me.


Its passable, but Version 15 doesn't have any ready-to-play AI Empires included Last time I checked. You'll have to set them up yourself. Make sure you use the right AI files or they won't do much of anything. The shipsets included with the mod should be setup with the mod's AI files already. If you have any questions ask Fyron.

[Captain Kwok]

Now that's a great looking weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:

Its passable, but Version 15 doesn't have any ready-to-play AI Empires included Last time I checked. You'll have to set them up yourself. Make sure you use the right AI files or they won't do much of anything. The shipsets included with the mod should be setup with the mod's AI files already. If you have any questions ask Fyron.

Random AI empire generation works great... The AI is roughly on par with Stock, albiet a bit uniform... It is no TDM, but it works well enough for now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
Now that's a great looking weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif



I agree. WOW.

[CovertJaguar]

Poster: Imperator Fyron

Random AI empire generation works great... The AI is roughly on par with Stock, albiet a bit uniform... It is no TDM, but it works well enough for now...



I didn't realize it could figure out your complex racial traits. How does that work? Are there some kind of standard picks that you set up or something? Or am I completely off the wall? I've always manually picked my opponents. /threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif

[Fyron]

The AI_General file in each Race folder tells the game exactly what to select for each of the AI empires.

[CovertJaguar]

Ahh... I looked around, but didn't see anything anywhere. Didn't look there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif Never really messed with the AI like I have with much of the rest of the stuff.

[Fyron]

AI General files are a huge pain in the arse... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

CovertJaguar said:
You liked that one huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif Well, I'm sure you like this one then. The Shock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shock.png



/threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif/5

[Kamog]

Those are wonderful component pictures! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Those weapons look magical and at the same time, technological as well... excellent work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Kamog Wrote:
Those weapons look magical and at the same time, technological as well... excellent work!


Magic really isn't all that different from science. A mage spends as much time theorizing and performing experiments as any scientist. The scientific method still holds true. The only difference is that magic doesn't care about the laws of physics and other standard scientific restrictions. It operates by a separate set of rules that cannot be reconciled with scientific laws.

Magical apparatus will take on a form similar to any device ever made, whether magical or technological. Energy must come from somewhere, in this case the crystals feed directly off of the Mana Shard Generators. The energy must then be converted and channeled into a useful form, this is done by the crystals and the "brass" tubing. And, Volia, instant lightning bolt or whatever else you need. /threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif

[Fyron]

Of course, magic spells usually channel energy from other planes, such as the elemental planes and negative energy planes. So, it appears that the energy does indeed come from nowhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Only from a scientist's point of view. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

And behold the Cone of Cold (Otherwise known as "The Snow Blower" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Penguin.gif ):
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Cone%20of%20Cold.png

[Ed Kolis]

Isn't that a cylinder, not a cone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

Picky, Picky, Picky... Lets just say the snow will fan out as it travels.

[CovertJaguar]

I have been fiddling around with nomads and pirates against the AI. I was playing a nomadic race and was trying to get a functional pirate AI working. The pirate AI isn't doing very well, but it will build pretty good boarding ships. The AI can capture ships right? I'm not mistaken am I? Never actually seen them do it yet. Anyways, I had some questions and suggestions regarding the nomads and pirates.

Nomads:
--Why are the research teams limited to 10 per vessel? I would like to be able to build dedicated research bases and ships, but with only being able to put 100kt of research teams on the vessel hinders this somewhat.

--Research teams should count as cargo on cargo vessels so that I can make dedicated research ships.

--You need to make a decision concerning the research outPosts, they are useless currently. Either make them large enough to put a maintenance reducer on them or remove them entirely.

Pirate:
--Pirates can capture colony ships and then colonize planets with them. They have nothing really useful to build on those planets though. Would it be terrible to give the pirates access to the forced labor production facilities to put those enslaved populations to use.

--Pirate are supposed to be hard to find right? I was wondering if it would be reasonable to give the pirates a system cloak component for their bases. It can be large (1000kt - 1500kt) and expensive. It would require a base just to house it. It doesn't need to be as high a level as the monster cloaks. A good set of sensors could see through it. This wouldn't be too powerful would it?

Please forgive any false assumptions I may have made and feel free to correct me.

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
I have been fiddling around with nomads and pirates against the AI. I was playing a nomadic race and was trying to get a functional pirate AI working. The pirate AI isn't doing very well, but it will build pretty good boarding ships. The AI can capture ships right? I'm not mistaken am I? Never actually seen them do it yet. Anyways, I had some questions and suggestions regarding the nomads and pirates.

The AI can never properly handle pirates or nomads...



Nomads:
--Why are the research teams limited to 10 per vessel? I would like to be able to build dedicated research bases and ships, but with only being able to put 100kt of research teams on the vessel hinders this somewhat.

To encourage spreading them out amongst different vessels.


--Research teams should count as cargo on cargo vessels so that I can make dedicated research ships.

That seems rather odd to me... why would a transport make a good research hull? You can just use a warship hull...


--You need to make a decision concerning the research outPosts, they are useless currently. Either make them large enough to put a maintenance reducer on them or remove them entirely.

I already have, actually. Just not yet in a released Version... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


Pirate:
--Pirates can capture colony ships and then colonize planets with them. They have nothing really useful to build on those planets though. Would it be terrible to give the pirates access to the forced labor production facilities to put those enslaved populations to use.

Possibly... pirates aren't really supposed to be generating their own resources to begin with. Perhaps a weakened Version...


--Pirate are supposed to be hard to find right? I was wondering if it would be reasonable to give the pirates a system cloak component for their bases. It can be large (1000kt - 1500kt) and expensive. It would require a base just to house it. It doesn't need to be as high a level as the monster cloaks. A good set of sensors could see through it. This wouldn't be too powerful would it?

Hmm... possibly.

[CovertJaguar]

Imperator Fyron said:

CovertJaguar said:
I have been fiddling around with nomads and pirates against the AI. I was playing a nomadic race and was trying to get a functional pirate AI working. The pirate AI isn't doing very well, but it will build pretty good boarding ships. The AI can capture ships right? I'm not mistaken am I? Never actually seen them do it yet. Anyways, I had some questions and suggestions regarding the nomads and pirates.

The AI can never properly handle pirates or nomads...


Well it kind of works, they will never be a threat beyond their home system and any surrounding systems, their largest problem is that they lack the resources to maintain more than a dozen ships or so, that and the fact that they are being picked on by a neighboring AI. They will be little more than a flavorful nuisance like the neutral AIs. That is if the AI can capture ships. My test subject is in no condition to attempt it really.


That seems rather odd to me... why would a transport make a good research hull? You can just use a warship hull...


I don't know, call it habit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif I tend to put the non-combat ships in the cargo hulls because they are cheeper to maintain and larger, but I guess that doesn't matter here. To turn the tables; Why would a science vessel use a combat hull?

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
To turn the tables; Why would a science vessel use a combat hull?

Because it is a generic hull, not necessarily a "combat hull." Transports are not the "civilian" hull, they are just ships specialized to carry cargo or supplies. They can be combat vessels as well, such as troop transports...

[CovertJaguar]

Remote miners count as cargo. Why is that? They are not related to cargo or supplies, infact they are closer related to the research teams as resource producers.

[Aiken]

To allow remote mining with transport hulls early in the game, I think. It's the only logic I can see here.

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
Remote miners count as cargo. Why is that? They are not related to cargo or supplies, infact they are closer related to the research teams as resource producers.

Sure they do. They have to have massive cargo storage areas to store all of those resources mined... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Research teams, not so much. Also, to allow them to be used on ships earlier in the game, as Aiken mentioned...

[CovertJaguar]

lol, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif you have a point there.

[CovertJaguar]

I have numbers this time. A 10 research team corvette (310kt) costs 3035, 5790, 3675 to build. It costs 103, 196, 124 to maintain. A 7 research team small transport (300kt) costs 3425, 4150, 3825 to build, but it only costs 23, 37, 24 to maintain. I can maintain at least 28 research labs using transports for a similar cost of maintaining 10 research labs with a combat hull. This is why I use transport hulls for research vessels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[CovertJaguar]

I have another suggestion for the nomads. They have no real access to training facilities. Would it be possible to get space-based training facilities to put in starbases. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

P.S. I'm still working on the pics if you were wondeing. I am working on a memphit model and it is taking a while. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[XenoTheMorph]

Lovely Jubly! New piccys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Your & Fyrons 'upgrade' to the Magic Paradigm is much looked forward to!

[Aiken]

Both pirates and nomads need some serious support in intel area. Intel points from bridges are not enough to resist severe intel attack.

[Atrocities]

A counter intel facility.

[Fyron]

CovertJaguar said:
I have numbers this time. A 10 research team corvette (310kt) costs 3035, 5790, 3675 to build. It costs 103, 196, 124 to maintain. A 7 research team small transport (300kt) costs 3425, 4150, 3825 to build, but it only costs 23, 37, 24 to maintain. I can maintain at least 28 research labs using transports for a similar cost of maintaining 10 research labs with a combat hull. This is why I use transport hulls for research vessels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Note that I have fixed a number of issues regarding hull sizes and maintenance values for 0.16.00... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


aiken said:
Both pirates and nomads need some serious support in intel area. Intel points from bridges are not enough to resist severe intel attack.

Nomads have intelligence components that can be placed on ships and bases. Perhaps 10x counter intel projects for the pirates or something...


Atrocities said:
A counter intel facility.

There is no such thing. The Fate Shrine ability is largely useless. If it succeeds, all it does is shift the project to a target in a different system of your empire. If you only have a single planet in your empire, it effectively does nothing at all against planet-based projects...

[Fyron]

For reference, here is the information stating why a counter-intel facility using the Fate Shrine ability(s) is more or less useless:

*thread link* (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=181008)

[CovertJaguar]

What about the space-based training facilities in my Last post, Fyron?

[Aiken]

Ship Training
Value1 = Per turn increase in ship experience in this sector.
Value2 = Maximum experience level that can be attained here.
Valid in Components.txt, Facility.txt, VehicleSize.txt


That's what Modding tutorial says about this ability. So the only problem is to convince Fyron to add such component http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Wouldn't component-based training be susceptible to sector stacking?

[Atrocities]

He could also make this into a unique facility type. Say like System Lord or System General. (IE you make the facility with the said ability, but use a Race Portrait as the image instead of a facility image.)

You give this Facility a new class, say System Government.

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
Wouldn't component-based training be susceptible to sector stacking?

Only if it was sector training, which will never be used in Adamant...


CovertJaguar said:
What about the space-based training facilities in my Last post, Fyron?

I am rather leary of component-base training... Imagine what happens when the nomads start gifting these out to normal races... Perhaps a reduced efficiency training or something...

[CovertJaguar]

Make it starbases only. And make it large and spendy, so you have to build a base designed solely to house the training facility. How would this be any different that if you gifted a tiny planet with training facilities to another player. Its not like the normal races couldn't build their own training facilities on a planet, planetside facilities would be cheaper to maintain as well. Also a base is more susceptible to attack than a planet. Sure the nomads aren't limited by the number of facility slots available but that's not going to break anything is it? If a normal race deals for a spacebased facility in order to save one facility slot on a planet somewhere he is not going to win the game automatically because he did. It will not make planetside facilities obsolete. You aren't going to trade with your enemies. They will still have to build planetside facilities. Beside if a spacebased facility is destroyed you would have to deal for another from a nomadic race rather than just rebuild, which may take two to four times longer if the nomads have to build it first.


Both will have pluses and minuses:

Nomads:
-Plus:
--No facility slot required
--Can be built anywhere

-Minus:
--Has maintenance cost
--Would cost more to build
--Would take longer to build
--Cannot be defended with Weapons Platforms.



Normal Races:
-Plus:
--No maintenance cost
--Cheaper than a starbase
--Builds quicker
--Can be defended with planetary defenses

-Minus:
--Requires a planetside facility slot
--Limited to planetary locations



If you must penalize the nomads training facilities in some way make it require a higher tech level for the nomads rather than making them less effective. By the time the nomads were rolling them out the normal races could have already built their facilities and have no need for spacebased facilities.

[Atrocities]

Fyron, an idea that I just put into the STM that you might want to consider for Adamant.


NOTE:
Play By Web

Advanced Trait
PBW Advanced Research

I added the PBW Advanced Research Trait to the mod in order to speed up PBW games. That this trait is free, and I strongly

suggest that it be stipulated in any PBW, EBEM, or PBIM games that this Advanced Trait be used by all or not at all. To use

it when others do not is considered cheating therefore all game hosts must consider this as a mandtory rule.

NOTE:
Single Player

Advanced Trait
Mild Research Boost
Medium Research Boost
Heavy Research Boost

Now for Single Players you can set your Computer Player Bonus to low or medium and then give these trait to one or more of

the AI's. By doing so you will be giving the AI a boost in research and an advantage over you. In this way you can make a

more unique game for yourself by giving each race its own level for research boosting. For example: Give the Heavy Research

Boost trait to the Borg and they will research faster than you and say an AI with the Mild trait. These settings will

provide for a more unique type of game play whereas the AI players will research at differant levels in stead of one size

fits all.

[Fyron]

What does this do, exactly? Just add more powerful research facilities?

[Atrocities]

It increase the research bonus for that race.

Mild would give that race a 25% boost to reseach
Medium would give 50%
Heavy 100%.

Its a racial trait so it does not require any new facilities or technology. It is done like a characteristic or culture bonus but is an advanced trait.

[Atrocities]

Ok I worked up an example using the STM.

For each setting I used the same race so there are no differances except in the Advanced Trait setting for each of the research traits.

Mild 25% - 25100
Medium 50% - 25725
Heavy 100% - 26975

And for stm PBW advanced Research Trait 5x
PBW AR - 26975

[Fyron]

I plan to create a FAQ, and am looking to gather questions for it. *link to thread* (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=2017)

[CovertJaguar]

Time for a new pic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

The Mephit:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mephit.png
And I thought the horse took a long time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I've been working on this since Thanksgiving. At least the rest of the mephits should go pretty fast now that I have a model. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif So what do you think?

[Captain Kwok]

It looks like he's ready to go to the bathroom... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

The model itself is nice though.

[CovertJaguar]

You people have your minds in the gutter, truely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I got that response for the first golems I posted, as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Here is a new one, I hope you like this one better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif :
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Mephit%20-%20New.png

[Makinus]

any chane of a new adamant verion before christmas?

[XenoTheMorph]

The 1st one was good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
The 2nd one is much better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

keep up the good work!

[Fyron]

First Version of the FAQ is uploaded:

http://adamant.spaceempires.net/help/FAQ.html


any chane of a new adamant verion before christmas?

You never know.

[CovertJaguar]

Looks good, but..


Question 10: Why are some of the component images for organic, magic and energy races not very organic, magic or energy looking?

The mod is still in beta, meaning it has not yet reached Bn "official releBse" Version. It is still under development. Not all of the artwork is completed, so many filler graphics had to be used.


... I'm sure 'Bn "official releBse"' is spelled incorrectly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[CovertJaguar]

I've got more pics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

The Fire Mephit:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Fire%20Mephit.png

The Air Mephit:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Air%20Mephit.png

The Shadow Mephit:
http://www.pacifier.com/~gladmill/adamant/Shadow%20Mephit.png