Destroyer of worlds weapon slots

[Blitz]

Plenty of dominions units incorporte a ranged weapon as well as a one-hander and shield. Good examples are all the infantry units for Ermor (javelin + tower shield + spear) or the crossbow infantry for LA man (crossbow, greatsword). Most knights also have a lance as well as sword and shield. Why is this significant? It shows that Dom3 units can carry more weapomns than they have hands, but not use all of them at once.

[Wish]

DoW definitely keeps his lightning in his pocket

[Kalin]

I think the point was that it was buggy for all of the weapons to dissapear when you equip a single weapon on him. There's nothing wrong with the fact that he can have 6 weapons at once, since they will only use melee or range weapon. However, if you put a single dagger on him, the only thing he will use is the dagger, what happened to the other 3 intrisic melee weapon hands, or the 2 range weapons? The bug is that these should NOT dissapear. It is also buggy that you have to equip a shield inorder to keep your range weapons. Why can't you use 4 melee weapons, and then switch to 2 range weapons when the time comes?

[Edi]

*sigh*

Most units on Dom3 have only one weapon unless they are something like the assassin or the EA Ulm warriors. When equipped with an item weapon, the intrinsic weapon is replaced. I don't know precisely what kind of checking is involved in that, but it generally replaces all melee weapons. Not a problem as such because most units only have one to begin with.

Missile weapons are bonus wrt melee weapons but most of them require two hands. This is probably why they disappear when equipping a single item weapon, since there is no flag to differentiate missile weapons from melee weapons as such. Adding range and shots is what turns a melee weapon to a range weapon, but here is no specific identifier flag. So if one hand slot is full, scratch missile weapon. Add shield and for some reason the check algorithm recognizes the difference and returns the missile weapons.

All of the above assumes a two-handed unit, not one with four, in which case the peculiar behavior starts. It's noteworthy that this feature has been around at least since Dom2, probably since DomPPP. DoW is the only unit that is significantly impacted, the closest followers being the Van and Hel commanders with javelin.

Altogether this affects only a few units and in very minor ways since something like the DoW is going to get a full kit of items anyway. Now we just know how to optimize it. So even if we get a consensus on the bug vs. feature, whether or not it's worth fixing (taking into account the possible amount of work and the possibility of something else breaking due to some unforeseen factor) is a determination only the devs and more specifically Johan can reliably make.

Edi

[mivayan]

Edi said:
If this is a bug, as you claim, then explain to me how and WHY it is a bug. Provide me with some evidence or some form of reasoning that logically arrives at a different conclusion than mine did. Your personal sense of outrage at people optimizing the unit is NOT sufficient.
Edi

Working As Designed, because it doesn't usually matter, is fair enough. A matter of taste to have it in the list.

But dont say it makes logical sense to be able to wield a default spear, a defeault Broad sword, and four Fire Bolas... but not a main gauche of parrying and the two default ranged weapons. With four shields you get Fist *and* the two default ranged weapons.

My EA centaur hierophant keeps his long bow if I give him Hunters knife + shield, but not if I give him shield + hunters knife.

[lch]

mivayan said:
My EA centaur hierophant keeps his long bow if I give him Hunters knife + shield, but not if I give him shield + hunters knife.

lol

[Edi]

I've been repeating over and over that this is how it seems to behave when checking for what weapons a unit can wield and that most missile weapons are 2-handed. Getting affliction "lost an arm" means the unit losing e.g. longbow or banefire bow, and it has something to do with the checking algorithm.

Based on the observed behavior of the checking algorithm that deals with units that possess 2 hand slots and what weapons appear and disappear when you mix items and intrinsics in what order, it is consistent and logical.

Whether or not it is logical from a point of view that disregards repeated and tested observations is another matter. I have not seen the relevant algorithm, so I cannot pass judgment on what should be done to it on the coding level to get things to match what most people see as the behavior it, in their opinion, SHOULD have.

Edi

[Wish]

Edi, i think they're just giving you Hard Time.

[thejeff]

You seem to be saying it's working as designed because "this is how it seems to behave"?

I think people get what the behavior is. I do. That doesn't mean the behavior is intended. Maybe it is. Maybe the devs intended a centaur with a knife to not be able to use his bow, but if he also had a shield he could. Seems weird to me, but I suppose it's possible.

If it's too small a problem to bother fixing because it doesn't affect too many units and you can work around it by putting a shield in the last slot, then fine. That makes sense. Maybe there should be a "Will not fix" category.

But don't claim people are disregarding "repeated and tested observations." We see the behavior. The behavior doesn't make sense.

[Edi]

To reiterate: The behavior of weapons for 4-armed monsters is logical and consistent in light of behavior with 2-armed monsters. Hence 4-armed behavior is not a bug.

If the behavior seems nonsensical and you would like it changed, then put it in the bloody feature request wishlist. With the magic word included.

Edi