Jomon advice wanted

[Edi]

As far as pretender choices being too obvious and only a few being "viable", it is not a given that this will remain so in the future...

[cleveland]

I highly, HIGHLY recommend trying out the Conceptual Balance mod, available here: Post#578909
Its philosophy is to make the unused/underused units, commanders, and pretenders viable, usually by adding or expanding some thematic feature. So for example, I believe the Celestial Master autosummons troops each turn. It really expands your options, I'll bet you'll love it.

Pablomatic said:
I've read some posts that claim MP boils down to a "rush for Tartarians."

Unfortunately this is mostly true, but it looks like the new patch will mitigate that somewhat. DON'T LET THIS PUT YOU OFF FROM MP!!! MP is the home of subtlety & cleverness, and if you find a game with Difficult or Very Difficult Research settings, you'll have literally months before SCs become common...and it turns out that kitting & maneuvering SCs is actually very fun & challenging, as the game is cleverly designed such that no SC can ever be truly invulnerable.

[Hoplosternum]

Pablomatic said:
I've read some posts that claim MP boils down to a "rush for Tartarians." With everybody going for more or less the same spells and everybody having a Cyclops pretender or something similar, I'm not sure I'll enjoy MP as much as I had hoped. I'll try it out and see. I'd like to be the one who surprises my opponents with an effective ORIGINAL strategy. Is that a losing cause?

I don't think all mp is like that exactly. The end game (where Tartarians are) is dominated by them and certain powerful magic schools and so can be a bit samey by all accounts.

But before you get there there are many strategies and ways of playing. the different races play very differently. Some like Jomon are slow starters and therefore really need awake SC pretenders. Others want double blesses, others have the troops capable of expanding quickly anyway (Elephants, Hydras etc.)

But you do need a good start in mp. You will find some of your opponents are taking more than a province a turn in the first year. You can't afford to be taking one every two turns in those circumstances.

I highly recommend mp. I started in the new year to play mp and there are plenty of inexperienced mp people to play against. Avoid Micah he is one of the very best mp players. Look for the newbie games. You learn a lot very quickly.

[MaxWilson]

Pablomatic said:
I've read some posts that claim MP boils down to a "rush for Tartarians." With everybody going for more or less the same spells and everybody having a Cyclops pretender or something similar, I'm not sure I'll enjoy MP as much as I had hoped. I'll try it out and see. I'd like to be the one who surprises my opponents with an effective ORIGINAL strategy. Is that a losing cause?

I have found that Tartarians are great for 1.) giving death/nature nations access to earth/fire/astral/air, 2.) supercombatant duty. In the end game, SCs largely replace national armies, in the sense that SCs can be easily and trivially beaten by mages, but can also easily and trivially beat mages (depends on the tactics each side chooses), and SCs can easily and trivially beat armies while armies have a tough time beating mages (with a small army to support them). What I'm trying to say here is that Tartarian access is an escalation in the use of force, not a bland "I win" card that makes all end games look the same. Still, I like the upcoming Tartarian nerf because it's thematic, and I'm certainly sympathetic to the idea that endgames are boring. Mine would be if I didn't make them fun, because I play against the AI.

-Max

[Micah]

You only need dom 9 for awe. I don't think I've ever spent the points for 10.

Also Hoplos is right, the end game does *sort of* come down to who has the most tartarians, but the paths to get there vary quite widely by nation. The mages available to you nationally also stay important, even if it just comes down to being able to counter tartarians effectively or not. (Dust to dust vs life for a life vs charm...etc). Raiding is also very important and doesn't require massive forces to pull off, just enough to knock out some PD.

[JimMorrison]

Ressurected! Out of nowhere!

Pablomatic said:
...Also, nobody said anything about the two Jomon sacred samurais not working together, as implied in the unit description. I've never had a problem (that I discovered anyway) so I'll keep doing that...

An unexpected event has occured in Silicia.
A group of drunken Yamabushi picked a fight with some of your Sohei. After a vicious battle one Sohei and one Yamabushi were dead.


I've played them a bit, and tend to end up with a mix of the two..... This is the first I've ever noticed this happen, but it does happen, apparently.

[Sombre]

Yeah rarely you'll lose 1 troop. Not much of a discouragement to mixing them, but a nice event.

[Trumanator]

Has anyone tried using an awake Celestial General in CBM? I did a little test game, and you can get a dom9 A4 E3 CG with decent scales. The big advantage in CBM is that he autosummons perfect arrow catchers for your samurai. This lets you use the resource-cheaper Aka-Oni samurai instead of the expensive archers or heavy prot samurai. He isn't much of an early game SC, but once you get Alt 3 or so he becomes much more effective with stone/iron skin, and mistform. Just a thought, I'm not sure how effective it is in the long run.

[archaeolept]

I think it could be done. 5 HI a turn is like a free 100 resources for arrow catchers. My preference is generally for asleep pretenders, but an awake CG should be viable. The chassis has reasonable SC stats as well.

although I would back them up w/ Samurai Cavalry, who are cheaper and slightly better in CB.

[legowarrior]

A Dormant Oracle with 9 Astral Magic makes the Sacred units of the Jomon great Arrow Catchers. Also, Monks spamming Fear Not means that you can field an army that fears no arrow. And you don't even need a Lab to build them.