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  #1  
Old September 11th, 2008, 10:44 AM
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Potion Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

Hello everyone.

To prove that development on my Mod has not halted and because I am also in a bit of a jam I have decided to drop in and ask you guys a couple of questions.

I recently hit upon the idea of developing a German counterpart to the Russian and American HMGs. I did a little research and it seems that the Germans had two rounds which might be good starting points for this project.

The first was the 13.2mm TuF round (WWI vintage) and the second is the 15,1mm round used by the Luftwaffe.

My 1st question is, how would I go about converting an Aircraft Auto-Cannon into an HMG?

The second is pretty much like the first, how do I convert an old WWI Anti-Tank Rifle into an HMG?

Many thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old September 11th, 2008, 02:50 PM

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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

For the 15 mm autocannon, there was an anti-aircraft halftrack (Sdkfz 251/21) mounting that on a triple mount. And this is already covered by the game, just do some browsing on the encyclopedia. Stats on the triple mount seem to be Acc 21, Kill 13, Pen 1 and Range 40.

For use as a single barrel on ground mount (tripod) you should probably cut down on the HE kill factor to present the difference in ROF due to number of barrels. The gun and the ammo would probably be even heavier to lug around than a 12.7 mm MG, too.

As for the 13.2 mm cartridge, there are already some weapons in other TOEs that use rounds of this caliber (not sure if they are identical or different to the German version). These are the MG carried by the T.15 tank and Laffly armoured car in Belgian TOE, AMR-35 tankette in French TOE and Landsverk armoured car in Finnish TOE.

Not sure if there tips were of any help.

(As a curiosity, in the 1930's Finnish army was comtemplating production of a 13.2 mm anti-tank machinegun. The project was eventually dropped in favour of a 20 mm anti-tank rifle, but a few prototypes were produced - including at least one with a wheeled carriage that makes it look like a light anti-tank gun.)

Edit: in the 1930's, there seems to have been also at least one Hungarian factory manufacturing 13.2 mm cartridges, though I am not sure if these were actually used by the Hungarian military. However, I spotted that the 15 mm triple-mounted AA-gun features on the Hungarian TOE in the game as armament for Kecskemet ornsz riverboat from October 1944 to December 1946.

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Last edited by Griefbringer; September 11th, 2008 at 02:59 PM..
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  #3  
Old September 11th, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

Thanks, you have given me a good place to start. I will post up my results asap. I take I'll have to divide the HE Kill factor by three?

The 15mm HMG is more for tanks and APCs rather than Infantry, but the 13.2mm is definately to be used by infantry as well as tanks.
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Old September 11th, 2008, 04:12 PM

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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

The French 13.2mm MG isn't using German 13mm AP cartridge AFAIK but smaller Hotchkiss cartridge, making it rather poor performer IRL wherever it was used (though mostly as AAMG).
German 13mm antitank round served as a muster for Browning .50 - so maybe just take Ma Deuce's stats? Maybe add one point of accuracy to appease German Kewlness factor?
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Old September 11th, 2008, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

OK, here we go. I looked at equivalent Soviet and American weapons as well as the weapons you suggested and the 13mm MG-131. From these comparisons I came up with the following weapon stats.

13.2mm SMG-132:
---------------
Klasse: 4/3
Genauigkeit: 21
Grösse 1: 2
Grösse 2: 1
HE Eindringungscharakteristik (EC): 2
Abschuss: 10
PM EC: 0
- Entf.
Schussweite: 40

15.1mm SMG-151:
---------------
Klasse: 4/5
Genauigkeit: 23
Grösse 1: 2
Grösse 2: 2
HE Eindringungscharakteristik (EC): 3
Abschuss: 10
PM EC: 3
- Entf.
Schussweite: 50
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Old September 11th, 2008, 04:55 PM

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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecruitMonty View Post
I take I'll have to divide the HE Kill factor by three?
I don't think it works that linearly, see for example:

- US M2 on a single mount vs. quad-mount (Kill 10 vs. Kill 19)
- Japanese 25mm AA gun on double and triple barreled mounts (Kill 14 vs. Kill 17).
- German 20mm Flak on single vs. quad mount (Kill 11 vs. Kill 19)
- Russian Maxim MG single barreled vs. quad mount (Kill 5 vs. Kill 10)

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Old September 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM

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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griefbringer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecruitMonty View Post
I take I'll have to divide the HE Kill factor by three?
I don't think it works that linearly, see for example:

- US M2 on a single mount vs. quad-mount (Kill 10 vs. Kill 19)
- Japanese 25mm AA gun on double and triple barreled mounts (Kill 14 vs. Kill 17).
- German 20mm Flak on single vs. quad mount (Kill 11 vs. Kill 19)
- Russian Maxim MG single barreled vs. quad mount (Kill 5 vs. Kill 10)

Griefbringer
It doesn't. Its in the MOBHack readme what you have to multiply by for multiple weapons. I believe four is something like 1.85 HEK or something, they're all less than 2 for sure. The more weapons, the closer you get to 2x.
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Old September 12th, 2008, 05:46 AM

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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

Some more comments: there is also a 15mm Besa MG mounted on some of the British light tanks and armoured cars, though that was probably quite different from the German 15mm gun.

As for the French 13.2 mm Hotchkiss MG, I just found some pictures from the 1930's showing it on a naval AA-mount and on a ground AA-mount (similar to a light AA-gun, not on a tripod mount). Not sure if either of these were used by the French military - but if they were, then the Germans would have probably captured some in 1940.

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  #9  
Old September 12th, 2008, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Any Suggestions (13,2mm and 15,1mm HMG)

I have set the weapons up in-game. Two of each (codes provided above). It will take a while to get edit each and every unit that will be using these babies but it shouldn't be too much of a hard slog.
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