Conceptual Balance Mod 5.4

[PDF]

Turin said:
I think that the problem with the vine ogre isn´t the vine ogre himself, but rather the ivy kings. I doubt anyone complains about precious n3 mages forging an ivy crown and then using their time getting 2 ogres per turn. Especially when you compare them to lamias.

The ivy king on the other hand doubles that efficiency and is already a bargain summon. A very high hp, no encumbrance n3 mage for only 20 gems is really sweet.

Regarding the drakes, I find all of them to costly with the exception of the cave drake, which makes an excellent tank. The others should drop to 6 gems in price.

As for Scs/thugs, the nerf to lifedrain weapons makes them a bit less dominant, Ice and arch devils are fine now imho, but banelords are still to cheap. I would raise the price to 20 gems.

About Ivy Kings and Ogres, it's exactly the problem.
And Ivy Kings should *not* be able to "reproduce" so easily, so have N2 instead of 3 and cost a little more.
Ogres should be back to their base stats and costs 2 or 3 gems.
I don't see any Drakes in my games, and IMHO they should cost 4 to 6, no more. Who'll care to have such high-cost, one-per-summoning, sort of critters except in the very early game - where gems are quite scarce ?

ID/AD are still very powerful, and too easy to get by non blood nations, I suggest to make them B4W3/B4F3.
Also Devils are still too strong : "real" devils should have some less HP (32, like a Jotun) and morale 15 for all kind of devils, 18 still makes them rather unbreakable.

Maybe I'm going to make my own mod ...

[quantum_mechani]

PDF said:

About Ivy Kings and Ogres, it's exactly the problem.
And Ivy Kings should *not* be able to "reproduce" so easily, so have N2 instead of 3 and cost a little more.
Ogres should be back to their base stats and costs 2 or 3 gems.
I don't see any Drakes in my games, and IMHO they should cost 4 to 6, no more. Who'll care to have such high-cost, one-per-summoning, sort of critters except in the very early game - where gems are quite scarce ?

ID/AD are still very powerful, and too easy to get by non blood nations, I suggest to make them B4W3/B4F3.
Also Devils are still too strong : "real" devils should have some less HP (32, like a Jotun) and morale 15 for all kind of devils, 18 still makes them rather unbreakable.

Maybe I'm going to make my own mod ...

Hmm... I'm not sure I understand, I thought you were criticizing the mod for being _too_ extreme?

I don't know why you don't see drakes in your games, probably play to big of maps? When you are in conflict around turn 20 or before they are highly useful.

Your suggested nerf to the ivy king would nerf him to oblivion, and the ogres would be rarely if ever used.

[Graeme Dice]

PDF said:
About Ivy Kings and Ogres, it's exactly the problem.

Why do so many people think that vine ogres are so dangerous when they are only slightly more useful than the infinite skeletons from raise skeleton?

ID/AD are still very powerful, and too easy to get by non blood nations, I suggest to make them B4W3/B4F3.

A SC without effective lifedraining can be taken out quite easily by your elite national troops. The devil commanders can never be made 0 encumbrance, so they will always tire out eventually.

[quantum_mechani]

Graeme Dice said:

A SC without effective lifedraining can be taken out quite easily by your elite national troops. The devil commanders can never be made 0 encumbrance, so they will always tire out eventually.

Not quite, properly equipped (including regeneration and reinvigorating), few national troops alone would be capable of defeating them.

[shovah]

hordes of mindblast ......

[Graeme Dice]

quantum_mechani said:
Not quite, properly equipped (including regeneration and reinvigorating), few national troops alone would be capable of defeating them.

You would have some trouble covering both regeneration and reinvigoration without leaving them open to elemental or MR based attacks attacks though.

[quantum_mechani]

Graeme Dice said:

You would have some trouble covering both regeneration and reinvigoration without leaving them open to elemental or MR based attacks attacks though.

Certainly, but still, elite troops alone won't usually cut it.

[Arralen]

Btw:

Milita #18 still has 2 shields in CBM 5.0 !!
Obviously, there's some ordering of the slots involved, and equipment seemingly does not have a 'type': The shield from the mod overwrote the helmet, but didn't erase the shield already there. So, if you wish to alter the equipment of a given unit, list all of it's intended equipment in the mod. Maybe even clear the unit completely...

[Edi]

Arralen said:
Btw:

Milita #18 still has 2 shields in CBM 5.0 !!
Obviously, there's some ordering of the slots involved, and equipment seemingly does not have a 'type': The shield from the mod overwrote the helmet, but didn't erase the shield already there. So, if you wish to alter the equipment of a given unit, list all of it's intended equipment in the mod. Maybe even clear the unit completely...

<snip image>

Well, you learn something new everyday. I didn't know this could happen.


Clearing the unit completely is not usually necessary. However, weapons and armor must be reassigned. This assumes that there is going to be the same or greater number of weapons or armor, or this sort of thing results.

I'm not sure about the weapons, but it certainly seems that way for armor. I had assumed that the first #armor command for a specific monster nullifies previous armor assignments, but apparently the #clear command must be used. This is again something that the modding manual is silent on.

Edi