Mod: Epic Heroes Mod -Version 1.5 Released

[jutetrea]

K, didn't see any of the domsummons yet, just played for 2 turns to see what summon allies does. I'll check that out later.

Yeti - I didn't think he had comparable stats for a melee and his summons weren't up to par with ulm/man/arco. Not sure if he had any other abilities.

K, I can see the Mict hero for MA...but that's one I'd think should be nerfed a bit for EA/LA. But I'm a Mict noob so could be wrong. Even if jag warriors are kind of weak, they're still sacred, and a free 120 gold. Pretty much giving any free sacreds kind of messes up the point cost limitation of having a high dom. At 20g Mict seems like it would be limited by its purchase of 4-8/turn and then add another 6 on top?

I'll test out the Arco hero later, seems like a great early indy killer with some support. Not sure how it would work as an MP SC.. SP I think it would rock.

Ulm - even if his hp's are great... pretty much everything else is. Before playtesting, my initial inclination would be to either drop some def or nerf his item effects. Obviously not sure till i get to play with it.

Machaka - think it matters if its a guarenteed kill. Being immortal he can kamikaze pretenders, die but still get the kill.

TC - losing the flying is kind of wierd thematically, but maybe necessary. All the blue robes in EA fly, but I don't think in LA and I'm not familiar with MA TC so unsure. Still think 3F or 3E would be a huge help.

Hmm, so i have to check for dom summons for C'tis and Van - will do.

Love the idea, and the implementation. Like the fact so far that there seem to be quite a few quirky things (summons, interesting items and such) which I like a lot.

[jutetrea]

Interesting on the dom summons - few comments

Should the ice imps get cold aura?

Never saw a domsummons for C'tis at dom 6, just the serpents

dom summons from van are nice, makes him much better. Does he have a forge bonus? can't remember. If not, IMO he should.

tithe collector.. Am I missing something? Do the summons do anything?

Ry'leh - does he have a summon?

Yeti - seems like he has good volume, but still lower quality troops

Is backstab MR resistable? Or does it need to pass defense/prot? Only tried twice, but failed to hit both times.

[Xietor]

Jut, thanks for the initial feedback.

It really helps. You do need to consider their whole package though and that includes special summons. The whole point of the Tinker(if you read the descr) is what he builds. Same with marignon. The tithe collector builds a sacred monument, and while it cannot hit back, hitting them does have consequences.

Read the descr of that thing ctis summons. I know for a fact that the balance is not right on. It needs a good bit of testing.

Your advice on the sacred summons is good, and i will have to consider it. They do not have to pay the big upfront cost, then they get 1/2 maintenance because they are sacred.

Mictlan is so bad i really do not mind. But the others....
I think i will remove sacred summons for arcos for sure and replace it with a hoplite. 2 serpents for ctis i can live with, and it is thematic with a snake hero.

[Edi]

If the Oceanian hero is average, is that from the point of view of using it as a supercombatant? It was hardly intended to be that, but a mage. It provides Oceania with access to magic it would not otherwise get, though I suppose increasing the magic levels by 1 would make it more impressive.

I had no time to go through the Worthy Heroes mod or look at the other stuff in Epic Heroes, so I threw it together quickly and it could be below average for this mod. If it's underpowered compared to what the benchmark should be, it is no big deal to increase the stats. I was looking more at the thematics and story, which is the hardest thing to do well when designing a hero. Stas are always easy to adjust.

[Xietor]

Well,

What ctis summons is pretty darn powerful, so they do not come often. same with marignon. To test what they get, start with a dom 10 awake pretender, make a prophet and keep clicking that turn button.

If ctis got many of those things, it would be too overpowering, so they come rarely and only in strong dom.

Make sure you read the descr. Most of the work has been on the descr, as edi said. Ryleh summons zip. he is powerful as he is. Atlantis has a summon though.

[jutetrea]

Edi, average only in the sense that he reminds me of the Atlantean hero who I've only seen once or twice. Its almost like Atlantis stole a Ry'leh standard hero and Oce stole an atlantean standard hero. Not bad because they introduce unavailable paths.

Well, in comparison with some of the heroes he seems good but in comparison with the melee heroes he seems less exciting. Remember, this is without playtesting yet, but maybe an ability or as you said jack the paths by 1.

I'll be able to test a bit today, it seems like the melee heroes are a bit more exciting, more risk (how much would it suck to get them killed early), cooler abilities, and better stats. On the other hand I think the mage heroes will be all around more useful, especially the ones that introduce new paths.

Still confused on the tithe collectors summons. Place up front and let them get hit? defense and no offense? If so, (a bit harder to test, means i'd have to actually invade myself) it might be pretty cool. Almost goes in with the idea I had of defensive towers. Did they move 1/0 or something? fully immobile is a bit tough, but i guess thematic with the desc. of the collector.

[Xietor]

Read the descr of the tithe collector. He is about spreading faith. His summons are sacred monuments. If you read their descr. it basically tells you that they also spread faith.

They spread faith the same as a prophet would in the square.

They cannot fight, but when they are stuck, their god strikes the heretic blind! Click on someone who attacks one of those statutes.

[Edi]

jutetrea, the idea of a Starspawn hero for Atlantis came from the description of Chuddar KAdul, the Seer King, who is one of the Atlantean heroes originally in the game. His description refers to learning Astral magic from a captive/renegade Starspawn hidden beneath the Coral Towers. Shadul Ummush, the Traitor King, is the R'lyeh hero, an Atlantian who switched sides for personal gain. I have had ideas of exile heroes for a while, so having a surviving Basalt King was the easiest story to come up with.

That was the reasoning behind the choices. Obviously improvement in one aspect or another is always possible.

[Xietor]

In Edi's defense, I really like the Basalt King in exile's storyline. Especially if you know the history.

And while the melee heroes ARE more exciting, they also die easier in combat, and longterm, may be less powerful than the mages who open up new paths.

The Mad Tinker, though he has only 6 hp, is likely more useful to Vanheim over the course of a game then a melee type hero. Having Watchers in your castles and patrolling is a nice bonus. He also has nature magic, and can spy. A very versatile little gnome.

[Xietor]

Note:

When you extract the files to the mod folder you will have 1 yellow folder named Epic Heroes Mod. That file had to be opened and the 2 files inside it manually drug out of the folder. That would be the DM file and another yellow folder
named ehspr(contains the sprites).

Some kind person may want to tell me how to zip the mod and attach it so that only the 2 files extract to the mod folder, thereby saving people the manual dragging of files step.

As to the updated version:

. Black Heart Treant-
a. descr is improved
b. added 1n and 1e.

2. Tithe Collector
a. itemslot issue fixed(he had 2 heads 3 misc)
In 1.1 he will have 1 head and 2 misc. I did catch this myself, but how i missed it when i did a preview of all 22 heroes is puzzling.
b. minor typo corrected

3. Ancient Ophidian-descr tweaked, typo corrected.

4. Sacred Yeti-

a.precision increased.

b. makemonster ability changed from 3 wingless to 1 winter wolf.

c. Magicleader added(so he can lead his winter wolves)

d. bite replaced by Yeti Slam

d. descr tweaked

5. Grand Elephantarch:

a. Elephant Barding's prot lowered, so his starting prot is now 15.

b. His make unit ability changed from 2 heart companions to 2 hoplites.

c. Elephantarch enc raised from 0 to 1.

6.Black Phoenix-fire imps come to him now in great numbers.

7. Blood Jarl-

a. ice imps now radiate cold(even though fire imps do not radiate fire), and they have ice prot(stronger in cold weaker in hot climates).

b. Blood Jarl lost his free blood slave a turn abilty.