Vanilla Summon Costs

Dedas · #1 March 9th, 2008, 10:19 AM

Yes, that is what I've always thought. All the serpent/drake spells for example - pure crap. Do anyone ever use them (besides from SP). Even the spell that is intended to strengthen them is bad (dragon master). I mean lv8 and 30 gems to get "not one but three" of them. What is up with that?

Sombre · #2 March 9th, 2008, 10:39 AM

Well this is kinda my speciality area. If you go back to the old CBM thread you can see my analysis of various vanilla summons and suggestions to improve them in CBM.

Many, many summons are improved in CBM, though sometimes I think qm doesn't go far enough. Or at least as far as I would.

Summon animals in CBM is a hot spell though. It scales (quite a lot) and is cheap and in the right terrain you get some nice stuff. Just as an example.

Dedas · #3 March 9th, 2008, 10:43 AM

The CBM is a way to solve the issues of course, but I rather have an explanation by Kristoffer how he justifies the high costs. I mean doesn't he like animals?

sector24 · #4 March 9th, 2008, 12:09 PM

I love animals. They're delicious!

Jazzepi · #5 March 9th, 2008, 12:18 PM

Summon beef cake.

Jazzepi

Twan · #6 March 9th, 2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Dedas said:
The CBM is a way to solve the issues of course, but I rather have an explanation by Kristoffer how he justifies the high costs. I mean doesn't he like animals?

It's a good question.

Compared to dom2, national army sizes you encounter in midgame have been multiplied by 3 or 4, and so battlefield wide dammage spells kill 3 or 4 times more troops when their cost is unchanged, lone SCs are perhaps a little less efficient but teams with thugs and mages are far better with the new morale system...

Only troops summons in most cases got no love at all (vine ogres had even their cost increased iirc) when gold allows to recruit far more regulars. It looks like a strange design decision in a game where half the rituals are troop summons.

(another one is not upgrading alchemy results, a gem should worth 30 or more gp with the devaluation of gold imo, I wonder if anyone uses gold alchemy out of extreme emergency, or the old trade price of 10 gold for a gem).

Jazzepi · #7 March 9th, 2008, 12:39 PM

Even when playing Abysia with smoldercone and a ridiculous amount of gems, I never alchemized. It's just not worth it.

Jazzepi

vfb · #8 March 9th, 2008, 01:02 PM

I'm using alchemy in an ongoing MP game. I've got Turmoil-Luck, and not enough luck

. Got an Eternal Pyre up, and when I'm short of cash, I dip into my fire gems.

Dedas · #9 March 9th, 2008, 01:30 PM

With the great alchemist it becomes somehow justified to use alchemy, although not enough (in my opinion) to actually choose the pretender.

Aezeal · #10 March 9th, 2008, 01:37 PM

Maybe they all should just double the effects to start with and then a bonus for each magic level above the one required to cast it to make it extra nice in certain occasions.

Even nicer would be some "special effects" a few extra, stronger, nasty beasts if the mage has certain other paths... "summon this creature" that now gives 10 would then give 20, and 5 extra for each higher magic level of the path the spells is in (maybe with a cap at 30) but if you had death magic too 5 of them would be ethereal. And if you had earth magic 5 of them would be better armoured, or there would be a bonus extra summon of a complete other type a drake of the magic path you have.

(hmm a lot of extra creature types that would mean, some programming too I guess.. but I'm just dreaming here and IMHO it would be fun.)