Illwinter, are you keeping it multiplayer?

[licker]

The SP problem is much deeper than that Gandalf.

The AI cannot possibly compete with all the options in the game, so there is no real impetus to actually improve the AI.

I know this, I accept this.

Can you get a satisfying SP game out of Dom3? Sure, with some caveats.

Is Dom3 designed for the SP game? Uhh... we all know the answer to that one.

Like I said, I don't begrudge illwinter the decision they made, they make the games they want to make and more power to them. But the facts remain that for whatever reason, the GUI and the AI make playing SP a much less enjoyable option than trying MP. Of course this is my opinion, I'm sure there are some who prefer SP, though I cannot really fathom why, but to each their own.

Anyway, the SP issues are not addressed directly by illwinter, they are addressed by kind folks as yourself and others making mods and randomizers and whatever else.

I don't see how difficult it would be for illwinter to at least include some reasonable pretenders for AI nations, nor do I see why some minor tweeks to the AI would be overly difficult.

Oh I know why it doesn't happen, because it's not fun to do. So yeah, I'll stick with my statement that the SP game is basically left to wither and die, however overly dramatic that might be

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by licker

The SP problem is much deeper than that Gandalf.

Well we all know that I dont tend to agree with much of that.
And I would of course appear to be a huge minority since so few soloers login here so its hard to know any hard numbers for agreement or not.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Well we all know that I dont tend to agree with much of that.
And I would of course appear to be a huge minority since so few soloers login here so its hard to know any hard numbers for agreement or not.

I don't think soloers are so few here, unless you mean "people who *only* ever play SP games," which would disqualify even you, Gandalf. I feel like it's maybe 50/50 on these boards, although of course in "balance" threads the multiplayer gamers are more vocal.

-Max

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by JimMorrison

I nearly passed out from adrenaline rush the first time I did Starcraft in MP.

To this day, the excitement is mostly in MP gaming. The obvious exceptions are really beautiful settings/stories like Bioshock, Fallout1/2/3, Dreamfall, etc. I still do tons of SP gaming, but I find it more relaxing, more meditative. I like being able to take my time sometimes. Get up and get food or otherwise tend to the body, without worrying about inconveniencing someone else, that sort of thing.

Hmm, I loved to play the Marine in Alien vs. Predator SP. You know you're just a human guy running through dark and filthy corridors trying to survive the aliens (from the Alien movies) who hid in corners or were only visible on your motion tracker until they were extremely close. I wasn't very good at it so my ammo was always low and I had no idea where to go, just went onwards barely surviving every encounter. One night I played it in complete darkness for some hours. I reached some stairs and thought they are up there waiting for me so I used the flamethrower on the stairs.
When I looked down again a small facehugger that I hadn't noticed before jumped at me. Instead of dodging (in game) I jumped backwards and tried to cover my face with my left arm (in real life). Of course the chair got a bit in the way and hitting the floor at full speed got me out of it.
Point is painful is not meditative.

I don't think SP and MP should be compared at all just like movies and board games. The "movie" (or for some games tinkering) part of a game is better done in SP while the competition part is better in MP.

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Illuminated One

When I looked down again a small facehugger that I hadn't noticed before jumped at me. Instead of dodging (in game) I jumped backwards and tried to cover my face with my left arm (in real life). Of course the chair got a bit in the way and hitting the floor at full speed got me out of it.
Point is painful is not meditative.

You might note that two of my "exceptions" to the idea of relaxed/meditative, were FPS games (Bioshock and Fallout3), because while most FPS games have enjoyable SP campaigns, they are not the peaceful experience that you can get from a TBS that only moves at exactly the pace that you want it to.


I want a Dominions MMO. Maybe just a MUD?

[Argitoth]

This is a big post. I'm going to bold what the casual reader should see. CASUAL READERS, read the bold, skim the rest. Gandalf Parker, read everything!

Originally Posted by Kristoffer O

Games are generally more fun when they have a social aspect. Together or against.

Well said! But don't forget, singleplayer games can have a social aspect, too. Totally forget what game I did this with, but I used to play a singleplayer game at the same time that my friend was playing the same game. We would stay on the phone and communicate while we played. I know I'm being counter-argumentative with that statement, but I would rather have just played co-op instead of being on the phone and pretending. But I know there are other examples of situations where a singleplayer game would have a social aspect.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

I wouldnt say that Illwinter is NOT going to create a solo game (as someone did) because they have. Has everyone forgotten that Conquest of Ellysium came before Dominions?

I would love to make a blanket statement and say any singleplayer game would be more fun with co-op, but I can't say that because each singleplayer game would have their own problems and would need some redesign for co-op to be a realistic idea. But,for example: I played Oblivion IV for a short time. I got bored. I think it should have co-op. I think Half-Life 2 should have co-op.

Here's a good example of Singleplayer VS Co-op. I used to download free fantasy games off the internet, games that had horrible graphics, some text-based graphics too. Anyone know of OpenGlad?: A lot of you gave examples of great singleplayer games like Half-Life 2, Fallout, etc. Those games have amazing graphics and amazing physics. But in my opinion, an old game with crappy graphics and no physics could make a horrible singleplayer game OR a fun-tastic co-op game. [b]Anyone ever played OpenGlad? http://snowstorm.sourceforge.net/cgi...?page=openglad This game was near perfect for its time in my opinion. I'm going to tell you what my perfect Illwinter game would be...

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

If I HAD to choose one or the other then Id prefer solo over a game that only supports MP.

Explain yourself. Why is singleplayer more fun than co-op? The argument that you'd like to play whenever you want is not a valid argument. Explain why it would be more *fun*, not more *convenient.*

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Do you consider it a natural progression that it goes Solo, Solo/MP, MP? If I were to consider such a programming stereotype I MIGHT consider it to be Solo, Solo/MP, Online World.

No, so let's start coming up with ideas for the perfect Illwinter game (remember, in realistic, doable terms). To answer my question "why singleplayer?" I would suggest you come up with an idea for an Illwinter game.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by Argitoth

Explain yourself. Why is singleplayer more fun than co-op? The argument that you'd like to play whenever you want is not a valid argument. Explain why it would be more *fun*, not more *convenient.*

Actually I love co-op. But if I had to choose a game which supports ONLY Solo or ONLY MP then I would choose solo. Just because a game supports MP doesnt mean it supports co-op.

The reasons I enjoy solo more is because I just cant get into player-vs-player. Im not a competitive player. People who arent competers should not be delegated to only playing games of solitair. I play Dominions in a more RPGish way.

More scenarios and campaigns and AI nations would help. I did push for larger maps. And I did do a number of co-op scenarios for Dom2 which I keep meaning to update for Dom3. And I did do a mod for a co-op game for Dom3 which I should do more of. I am working on a chaoticized version of AI nations to go with my chaoticized maps (which might shift to SemiRandom the same as my maps did).
So I dont complain too much since I havent gotten off my tail to do my part in fixing it.