what about the future?

[lch]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

Actually there is a forum, and a channel. But the forum costs money to join.
And the maytrix site requires that I believe.

But it is a wonderful server. I think we could really use one of our own like that

Yes, being a Goon is mandatory to use Matryx' service, you can see that as soon as you try to register on there. Well, there are exceptions to that rule, but it has been designed to be for games originating from the SA forums. That's why it isn't on the list of the Dom3 game servers.

Matryx might share some codebits about his server setup there, but he is using an internal framework from his job which prohibits him from sharing it with others. So don't expect that there is going to be a non-SA branch of the service unless Matryx himself decides to host it.

MoseHansen shares his Perl scripts from his automated Dom2 game server, if you're interested in that. I did plan to develop a fully customizable web frontend for Dom3 game servers in PHP using some other frontend before Matryx showed me his site, but I dropped that project when it became apparent that the Llamaserver became the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games and people have no issues about PBEM turns, I then put the time into the Dom3Wiki instead. It seemed there was no need for a network equivalent, and what actually killed it for me was the whole user management stuff that one has to model and implement.

It's possible to verify purchased copies with the publisher? That's very interesting, I think server admins would like to have this option. Are llamabeast's and Gandalf's servers doing this already, too?

P.S.: I didn't really read much of the rest of this thread, or the other threads. Looks like the emotional tampon levels of the forums are quite high again.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by lch

MoseHansen shares his Perl scripts from his automated Dom2 game server, if you're interested in that. I did plan to develop a fully customizable web frontend for Dom3 game servers in PHP using some other frontend before Matryx showed me his site, but I dropped that project when it became apparent that the Llamaserver became the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games and people have no issues about PBEM turns, I then put the time into the Dom3Wiki instead. It seemed there was no need for a network equivalent, and what actually killed it for me was the whole user management stuff that one has to model and implement.

A front end something like this?
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
Actually most of the pieces for such a server have been ironed out if someone wanted to do it.

I didnt really want to with Dom3Minons. Like most things of mine it was meant more as a proof-of-concept for others to build on and improve. Which has happened to some extent. What I had originally wanted was for Dom3Minions to be a community asset as a shell account server but very few took me up on it and Im losing the ability to keep up with even that little an offering. I never did plan to go to a full hosting service.

As far as the need, de-facto, and no problems with pbem I would disagree. It is very common on this forum to put larger games on LLama's server (and I greatly appreciate it for that) but its not "the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games". Possibly it is on Sombre's. On the other forums very little is pbem, nor does there seem much interest in it altho I make sure they all know that LLama's is available.

But if someone wanted to create a server like Matryx's (they would have to do it from scratch I guess) then it might spread things out abit. That server arrangment is entirely setup for hosted direct-connect games. It facilitates their different forum style because it serves some of the purpose that separate game threads do on this forum. It displays games that want players, allows them to find out the settings, join if they wish reserving the nation they want, download the mods and maps for it, and once the game starts it allows checking to see who has done their turns. And it gives a one-stop location for checking the status of the games you are in. But unlike servers like LLama's or Dom3Minions it doesnt host any. The games are all being played on other systems. In fact, a number of the games are being hosted on Dom3Minions.

Of the 3 types of servers, I have put that one forth as the best concept for any possible future official server IMHO.

Gandalf Parker
--
feci quod potui, faciant meliora potentes
I have done what I could, those who can will do better.

[lch]

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

A front end something like this?
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
Actually most of the pieces for such a server have been ironed out if someone wanted to do it.

No, as far as I'm aware that's an interface to create and start a new game, but nothing after that. I had something in mind which smoothes the whole process that currently has to be handled manually by game admins in regards to organizing and administrating a game. Something where game admins can create/register a game, invite other people by formmail and use possibly some kind of token to the game or have it displayed on a overview page and leave the slots open for (registered) users to fill them. Verification of email addresses so people receive email notification on hosting for the games they're in, which they could optionally turn off, too. Then an option to boot people from said slots, handle players who work as substitutes, reset/change the clock for the game, and so on. All the little manual things. For games hosted on the server itself, access to the game backups, ability to revert to turn no. X, optionally extensive graphs for the game and a map of who owns which provinces currently. Blahblahblah, as I said, implementing the user management and web interface to handle all this would take quite some time and while something like that would certainly be "nice to have" and I even had some of the technical stuff implemented, I thought that it wouldn't be worth the effort. Especially not in the long run.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

As far as the need, de-facto, and no problems with pbem I would disagree. It is very common on this forum to put larger games on LLama's server (and I greatly appreciate it for that) but its not "the de-facto standard for playing Dom3 games". Possibly it is on Sombre's. On the other forums very little is pbem, nor does there seem much interest in it altho I make sure they all know that LLama's is available.

I've considered PBEM to be quite cumbersome, myself, but after the Llamaserver was fully operational people have voiced more than once that they prefer it to networked games. One of their points was that you have less issues with firewalls, the other that they automatically have access to their previous turns in their mailbox, which for networked games would require them to take care of backups themselves. I'd say that's about as much work as saving and getting the turn files from your mailbox every turn to play PBEM, but I can accept the points they make.

Originally Posted by Gandalf Parker

But if someone wanted to create a server like Matryx's (they would have to do it from scratch I guess) then it might spread things out abit. That server arrangment is entirely setup for hosted direct-connect games.

As you said yourself, it isn't really a server (as in, something that hosts games), but a service which tracks games on other servers. A web interface or web version to the game monitor tools that have become available here from multiple people, too. I don't know if you noticed that I had something like that when I've had my stuff hosted by you, too, I've even shared/compared code with Matryx. The problem is that the socket support in PHP4/5 is abysmal and you can't be fully sure that you receive something back when you make a request to a remote game server, it could just hang for an indefinite time. AFAIK what Matryx does to overcome this is to poll every server in set intervals, every couple of minutes or so, instead of when a request is made.