.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $6.00
World Supremacy- Save $10.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > Illwinter Game Design > Dominions 3: The Awakening

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 6th, 2008, 07:03 PM
JimMorrison's Avatar

JimMorrison JimMorrison is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Utopia, Oregon
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 83
Thanked 143 Times in 108 Posts
JimMorrison is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

Thank you for getting us started Chris. <3

I understand this process takes a lot of thought, and a bit of effort to contribute. But the benefit to the older players, is that if we get a good chart developed, rather than explain the same things to people in newbie posts all the time, you can direct them to this post for these comparisons. They'll get more information, and more accurate information faster, and save you forum posting time for more in depth questions.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old June 6th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Meglobob's Avatar

Meglobob Meglobob is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,198
Thanks: 90
Thanked 32 Times in 22 Posts
Meglobob is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

Caelum is a nation you should avoid playing as your 1st or even 2nd/3rd nation. Hence low marks in ease of learning/use, this is mainly due to its flying units take some getting use to, the early game use of mammoths takes practice as well and learning just how good your troops are in cold 3 dominion.


EA Caelum

Early Game Strength 5
Mid Game Strength 4
Late Game Strength 3
Ease of Learning (SP) 1
Ease of Use (MP) 2

The great advantage EA Caelum has is Eagle Kings which is a excellent recruitable SC, with perfect paths for self buffing. It does however lack some magical diversity and requires luck in site searching unless you take a rainbow pretender.


MA Caelum

Early Game Strength 5
Mid Game Strength 3
Late Game Strength 3
Ease of Learning (SP) 1
Ease of Use (MP) 2

Ma Caelum is probably the weakest of the 3 ages, lacking the SC's of the EA and the better magical paths of the LA.


LA Caelum

Early Game Strength 5
Mid Game Strength 4
Late Game Strength 4
Ease of Learning (SP) 1
Ease of Use (MP) 2

I think LA Caelum is the strongest of all the ages, such a shame it shares the age with Ermor and Rlyeh. The Harab Elder is a fantastic mage with strong paths in A, E and D. This gives LA Caelum some serious power in the endgame which is lacking in the other 2 ages. The earth forging bonus is better than the MA's water forging bonus as well.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 6th, 2008, 09:40 PM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,968
Thanks: 24
Thanked 221 Times in 46 Posts
quantum_mechani is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

EA Arco 2 4 4 2 2
Ea Ermor 3 3 3 4 3
EA Ulm 2 2 4 3 2
EA Marverni 1 3 3 2 2
EA Sauromatia 3 3 3 3 2
EA TC 2 3 4 2 2
EA Mictlan 5 4 5 3 2
EA Aby 3 2 2 4 4
EA Caelum 4 3 2 2 3
EA C'tis 2 2 3 3 3
EA Pangaea 3 2 3 4 3
EA Agartha 2 3 4 2 3
EA Tir na Og 3 3 2 4 3
EA Fomoria 3 4 4 3 2
EA Helhiem 5 5 4 4 3
EA Vanhiem 4 4 3 4 3
EA Niefelhiem 5 4 5 5 4
EA Kailasa 2 3 4 2 3
EA Yomi 3 3 3 3 2
EA Hinnom 3 4 5 4 3
EA Atlantis 3 4 3 2 3
EA R'lyeh 2 3 4 2 2
EA Oceania 5 3 2 4 3

MA Arco 3 5 4 3 3
MA Ermor 5 5 5 4 3
MA Pythium 3 5 4 3 2
MA Man 3 2 2 4 3
MA Ulm 2 2 2 4 3
MA Marignon 3 3 2 3 4
MA Mictlan 4 3 3 2 3
MA TC 2 2 4 2 3
MA Mackaka 3 3 3 3 2
MA Agartha 1 2 2 3 2
MA Abysia 3 3 2 4 3
MA Caelum 3 4 2 2 3
MA C'tis 2 3 3 2 2
MA Pangaea 4 2 3 3 3
MA Vanhiem 5 5 3 3 4
MA Jotunhiem 4 4 4 4 3
MA Bandar Log 3 4 3 3 2
MA Shinuyama 3 4 4 3 2
MA Ashod 3 4 3 3 3
MA Atlantis 2 3 3 2 3
MA R'yeh 3 4 5 2 3
MA Oceania 5 3 2 4 4
MA Eriu 3 3 2 3 4

LA Arco 4 3 3 4 3
LA Ermor 5 5 4 5 5
LA Man 3 4 3 3 2
LA Ulm 2 3 2 3 1
LA Marignon 3 4 4 3 3
LA Mictlan 5 3 4 2 3
LA TC 4 3 4 3 3
LA Jomon 1 2 3 2 2
LA Agartha 3 5 4 3 3
LA Abysia 2 3 3 3 2
LA Caelum 4 4 3 2 3
LA C'tis 2 3 3 3 3
LA Pangaea 4 3 3 4 4
LA Midgard 5 4 4 3 3
LA Utgard 4 5 4 4 3
LA Patala 2 3 3 2 2
LA Gath 3 3 4 4 3
LA Atlantis 2 3 3 2 2
LA R'lyeh 4 5 5 5 3
LA Pythium 3 4 4 2 1
LA Bogarus 1 3 4 3 2

A few notes:

*As Micah says, late era strength is rather arbitrary, it almost always comes down to how well the nations have done in the earlier stags, not theoretical late game nation power.

*Ease of learning is also a bit arbitrary, some nations are cakewalk if you know basic bless tacics, but extremely challenging otherwise.

*I assumed nation power relative to other nations in their era.

*I was extremely tempted to put 6 in for some categories with LA Ermor/Ryleh, because as it is, it implies some otherwise powerful nations would be a one on one match for them.

*I consider early game approximately pre-level 4 research.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 7th, 2008, 12:03 AM
JimMorrison's Avatar

JimMorrison JimMorrison is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Utopia, Oregon
Posts: 2,676
Thanks: 83
Thanked 143 Times in 108 Posts
JimMorrison is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

Dear lord Quantum, that is quite impressive, and at first glance looks very well thought out, THANK YOU!

If a few more of the oldbies can do lists like this, we'll be looking at a good base for the chart. Everyone else contributes a few here and there to flesh it out, there will be a powerful reference for new arrivals to the game and the forums.

And yes, before anyone says it, I know I am setting a bad example by not posting, but I started to get my thoughts together, and I realized that I've only gotten to the true "late game" a few times, out of literally hundreds of starts. Unfortunately I either find out too late that I've failed to pull my strat together, or I am just doing too well and get bored of stomping on the AI, so I start a new one.....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 7th, 2008, 02:54 AM
Kristoffer O's Avatar

Kristoffer O Kristoffer O is offline
General
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,463
Thanks: 25
Thanked 92 Times in 43 Posts
Kristoffer O is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

Interesting thread. Keep up the good work!
__________________
www.illwinter.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 7th, 2008, 03:59 AM

Aezeal Aezeal is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,691
Thanks: 5
Thanked 39 Times in 31 Posts
Aezeal is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

I wonder why QM thinks niefelheim is 5-4-5.. I can see them starting very strong and getting less in the mid game.. but why 5 again in the end?
__________________
Want a blend of fantasy and sci-fi? Try the total conversion Dominions 3000 mod with a new and fully modded solar system map.
Dragons wanted? Try the Dragons, Magic Incarnate nation.
New and different undead nation? Try Souls of Shiar. Including new powerfull holy magic.
In for a whole new sort of game? Then try my scenario map Gang Wars.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 7th, 2008, 04:19 AM

quantum_mechani quantum_mechani is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,968
Thanks: 24
Thanked 221 Times in 46 Posts
quantum_mechani is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

Well, as I was saying, late game rating is pretty purely theoretical. However, niefel's commanders contribute more to the late game than most nation's- mages resistant to artillery, free SC/thug chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 14th, 2008, 12:28 PM

Xietor Xietor is offline
Lieutenant General
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,741
Thanks: 21
Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts
Xietor is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

For now I will only rate 3 of my top MA Nations. I am not rating ease of learning and ease of use, just the early, mid, and endgame strengths.(i will add others until it is complete)

Pythium 3 5 5
Ermor 5 4 4
Ryleh 3 4 5
Shinuyama 2 4 4
Ctis 3 5 3
__________________
"War is an art and as such is not susceptible of explanation by fixed formula."
- General George Patton Jr.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 7th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Endoperez's Avatar

Endoperez Endoperez is offline
National Security Advisor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Eastern Finland
Posts: 7,110
Thanks: 145
Thanked 153 Times in 101 Posts
Endoperez is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

EDIT: ninja'd by quantum, and I guess his reasons wrong as well.


MA Ulm:
Early: 2
Middle: 2
Late: 3
Learning: 3
Use: 2

You'll need clever tactics to get to late game, and need Blood Stones to survive late middle/all of late. This drops ease of use, because blood hunting is boring.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 7th, 2008, 07:29 AM
Amhazair's Avatar

Amhazair Amhazair is offline
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Posts: 1,333
Thanks: 39
Thanked 59 Times in 43 Posts
Amhazair is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Dominions Nations Evaluations ;)

EA Ermor: 3 4 3 2 3 (Solid yet unspectacular early game with legionaries, nice communion battlemagic potential in mid game. Low max levels in S prevent it from being the late game powerhouse other S nations can be. Mastering communions and lots of low-level not easy to boost paths make it quite tricky to learn. )
EA Sauromatia 4 4 4 3 3 (Just plain solid nation, with a large variety of strong options in all stages of the game. It might be worth a 2 in ease of learning simply due to the large number of options available, but in the end went with 3 as whatever option you choose is bound to be at least decent. )
EA Helheim: 5 3 3 4 4 (Obvious early game power. They do have a good number of mid/late game options available (magma eruption, good A/D magic, powerful(flying) stealthy raiders, but a lot of it is capital only, lowering their rating a bit. )
EA Yomi: 1 4 3 2 2 (Easily the most difficult expansion of all nations I played so far. Mid game with recruitable Dai Oni and strong battlemagic is very solid. Mastering early expansion, figuring the best uses for the quite crappy military, and the many uses of Dai Oni make them quite hard to learn. )
EA Oceania: 5 1 2 3 3 (Amazing early game potential, but getting out of the water is an unbelievable pain in the ***. Their only saving grace past early game is easy clam-access. )

MA Ulm: 2 4 2 4 4 (Your troops are decent enough for expansion, but you have a number of vulnerablilities in early wars. Hordes of smiths spamming magma eruption behind a wall of steel make mid-game their day of glory. Late game their lack of magic diversity haunts them. The limited number of magic paths make them quite easy to use and script. )
MA Abysia: 3 4 3 2 2 (Solid and fire immune if expensive troops and fire evocations make for a decent enough early and mid game. Late game they can leverage the power of blood, but expensive & capital only bloodhunters and lack of other tricks limits them. Crippling capital dependance, old age issues, blood magic, and path boosting difficulties make this nation hard to play.
MA C'tis: 2 4 3 2 2 (Recruitable everywhere marshmasters with skellespam and poison tricks make for a very powerful mid game. Late game marshmasters remain top-class mages, and shaman/couatls allow communions and astral tricks. The miasma makes it difficult to diversify their magic though (bringing their lategame rating down a notch) and also explains the low learning/ease of use ratings. )
MA Jotunheim: 4 4 3 4 3 (Easily massable sacreds for a potentially strong early game, cheap researchers, thugs and body ethereal in mid game. Somehow, despite having astral, death and blood magic I feel they slowly peter out towards late game. )
MA R'lyeh: 3 3 5 2 3 (Nothing extraordinary about the early stages of their game, but nigh on unstopable as soon as you get your Starspawn & cheap communion slaves going. Learing how to get out of the water with chaffy troops and communions make them not the easiest nation to learn. )

LA Pangaea: 4 3 3 4 4 (Two very different but equally nice varieties of sacreds and minotaurs make early game a breeze. Mid game your Pans can buff your very solid military to greater hights. High hp mages and troops and high MR are great assets for late game, but you lack magical diversity. )
LA Utgard: 4 4 4 2 3 (A very solid nation all around. Good sacreds, strong thugs, amazing cheap mages, strong communions, very decent S/D magic, and good blood access.
LA Atlantis: 2 3 2 4 5 (Strong but resource heavy troops. Coupled with strong W/D mages and cold resistant troops they make for a decent mid game. Late game the mages high hp and high death magic are useful, but appalling lack of other options leave them rather weak. That same lack of options and obvious strengths make them easy to use though. )
LA R'lyeh: 4 4 5 2 1 (I agree with QM about giving LA R'lyeh a 6 for endgame strength. Masses of freespawn chaff make for good expansion, and proper use of illithids and mages make early/mid game solid enough. Late game is ridiculously powerful, combining MA's magical power with virtually limitless chaff hordes - who suddenly become a lot more fearsome when massively buffed by your communions. Freespawn requiring two kinds of leadership, madness and large communions makes playing them a micromanagement nightmare. )


__________________
Praeterea censeo, contributoribus magnae auctoritatis e Foro Shrapnelsi frequenter in exsilium eiectis, eos qui verum auxilium petunt melius hoc situ adiuvari posse.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.