Perpetuality - 62 Player MegaGame (Finished!)

[Velusion]

<font color="#2315dd">Perpetuality </font>

We ended the game due to the unit limit. If the patch comes out soon that fixes that we might restart.

It was probably a three way tie between MA Agartha/LA Ermor/LA R'lyeh... but other nations might have been able to catch up!

Perpetuality Status Page http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=perpetuality

Perpetuality Trading House http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=d3maars&amp;Number=521673&amp;fpar t=&amp;PHPSESSID=

A History of Perpetuality http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=528085&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

Latest Scores.html file http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/Perpetuality_Scores.html

Game Type: TCP/IP (static server)
Speed: 24 hours per host for the first 18 turns moving to 48 hours per host until around turn 70+ in which it moves to 72.
Quickhost: enabled.
Era: Middle (this is for indy strength)
Players: 62 (all era nations combined into one). Spots that go unfilled will be filled with a random Mighty AI.
Map: 16.1 provinces per player pre-generated map. The map image is attached to this post. It is highly recommended you download and extract the .tga file to your Dominions3\Maps folder before the game starts.
Research Speed Difficult
Victory Conditions: 650 out of 1000 (~65%) provinces controlled, or the surrendering of all other players (the latter is much more likey).
Graphs: On
Hall of Fame: 15
Renaming: On
Magic Site Frequency: 40
Masterpass: There will be one
Mods: We will be using the mega-mod.
Start Time: Started.
Length: If you aren’t eliminated this game might last a very long time. Be prepared!
Patch Level: We will use 3.08.

How the Nations Were awarded:
1st Seed: After the deadline I will award nations based on the player's first choice. If multiple players desire the same nation I will randomly select the player that is assigned the nation.
2nd Seed: We repeat the last step with those players that still have not been awarded nations and still have preferences. Players who are awarded a second seed get a 5% population increase in their capital.
3rd Seed: Repeat the Second Seed except the award is 10% population increase in their capital.
4th, 5th, 6th, etc Seed: Continue until there are no more conflicts, awarding and additional 5% per each seed.
Last Seed: On the seed where there are no more conflicts the final preferred nations are awarded and all the remaining players (those that ran out of preferences or never provided any) are randomly assigned the remaining nations. Whatever Seed level this ends up being is the population bonus all the remaining players will get. The seed cap limit will be 10 (i.e. 150% pop bonus).

Final Vote Tally:
Should we ban Utterdark? 16 Yes, 30 No
Should we ban Arcane Nexus? 41 Yes, 9 No
What should the research speed be? 26 Difficult, 21 Very Difficult
What age should the indys be? 11 Early, 22 Middle, 2 Late

There will be NO (Zero, Zip, Zilch) delays for absences until we are down to 15 or less players. I highly recommend you ask around and find a temporary substitute if you plan on being gone for an extended time.

Due to the number of players I will be rather ruthless in enforcing the stale rule. No one will stale more than twice in a row before they are replaced or put on AI unless they let me know beforehand. If you let me know you will be gone you will not be replaced but the game will not be held up for you.

Next steps:

1) Download the map (if you haven't already) attached this forum thread. Extract the map (perpetuality.tga) from the zip file and place it in your dominions3/maps folder.

2) Download the Mega-age mod here: http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/mega-age.zip

You will need to extract these files/folders to your dominions3/mods folder. You will then be able to enable/disable the mod via the dom3 game menu &gt; Preferences. You do not need to enable this mod to upload pretenders.

3) Connect to the following location to play the game:
IP: 67.66.187.69
Port: 15151

EA Arcoscephale - Manuk
EA Ermor - Digress (%5)
EA Ulm - Davegg (%20)
EA Marverni - vfb (%10)
EA Sauromatia - LeSquide
EA TienChi - Vathmoth
EA Mictlan - Methel
EA Abysia - Ramiro (%10)
EA Caelum - Terawaerto (%5)
EA C'tis - RamsHead
EA Pangaea - Szumo (%10)
EA Agartha - Foodstamp (%10)
EA Tir na O'og - Meglobob
EA Vanheim - Stricklyrockers (replaced by Quantem_Mechani)
EA Helheim - BigDisAwesome
EA Niefelheim - Honeybadger
EA Kailasa - Shuma
EA Yomi - thraveboy (%20)
EA Atlantis - cupido2 (%20)
EA R'lyeh - Yucky (%20)
EA Oceania - Amhazair
MA Arcoscephale - Smonk
MA Ermor - LoloMo
MA Pythium - Zoshan
MA Man - Dr. Praetorious (%15)
MA Ulm - Cor (%20)
MA Marignon - Fal
MA Mictlan - Wikd Thots (%20)
MA Tien Chi - Tichy (%5)
MA Machaka - Reay (%5)
MA Agartha - atul (%20)
MA Abysia - FAJ
MA Caelum - BolognaRamp (%20)
MA C'tis - Xietor (%5)
MA Pangaea - Hadrian_II
MA Vanheim - GrayZ (%5)
MA Jotunheim - solo
MA Bander Log - Hurst
MA Shinuyama - Saint Dude (%5)
MA Atlantis - PheasantPlucker (%20)
MA R'lyeh - Salamander8
MA Oceania - Tyrant
LA Arcoscephale - Sleet (%5)
LA Ermor - Velusion
LA Man - tibbs
LA Ulm - CelestialGoblyn (%5)
LA Marignon - Catquiet
LA Mictlan - Baalz
LA Tien Chi - jutetrea (%10)
LA Jomon - Fate (Replaced by Shuma)
LA Agartha - Shovah32
LA Abysia - Stelteck (%20)
LA Caelum - Kydorias (%5)
LA C'tis - Arameyan
LA Pangaea - Lingchih
LA Midgard - Jazzepi (%20)
LA Utgard - Xox (%5)
LA Patala - Morkilus (%20)
LA Atlantis - FrankTrollman (%20)
LA R'lyeh - Evilhomer
EA Lanka - K (Replaced by Meglobob)
MA Erdi - Hiddenmist

[LoloMo]

Sign me up!

I vote to BAN Arcane Nexus and BAN Utterdark

[Velusion]

Feel free to post whatever you want here... but sign-ups are only "certified" once I receive (via email or PM) your nation preference list (even if you don't have a preference) and your password.

Also you can change your preferences at any time before
Friday May 11th.

[LoloMo]

Got it!

5% population increase affects only income in that city correct? No effects on resources, etc?

[Velusion]

LoloMo said:
Got it!

5% population increase affects only income in that city correct? No effects on resources, etc?



I think population only affects income.

[Jazzepi]

I would like to sign up. Can you please place me as the last possible seed? I will play *anything* that people don't want to play.

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

Jazzepi said:
I would like to sign up. Can you please place me as the last possible seed? I will play *anything* that people don't want to play.

Jazzepi


I'll need your password.

[Jazzepi]

Sent!

Jazzepi

[FAJ]

Sent PM.

I vote in favor of banning any global people campaign to ban. I don't believe they are balanced or intended for games of this size.

[jutetrea]

e-mail sent with list, votes, passwords, etc

[Micah]

Is there any chance of taking out the gem-producer items? The end game of this thing is going to be flat-out retarded if they're left in. I can reasonably see someone having in excess of 1000 clams by the end of the game, and that's just not fun. The thought of a half-ton of fever fetishes makes me weep. If they're taken out the game will actually be about taking territory and finding magic sites, not who can clam-whore the best.

[Foodstamp]

I thought I read somewhere that there was a limit to how many gem producing items you could have now?

[Micah]

I had about 80 or so clams in Undertow without running into any problems (and that was with 3.06)

[Velusion]

FS - I didn't think there was an artificial limit.

I don't know about removing them... but I'd be up for say... doubling the cost via a mod if the general consensus in this thread is that they are too powerful in this sized game.

[K]

As this is a grand experiment, I'm tempted to "let the chips fall where they may" and not disallow anything.

I mean, if a dude casts the Arcane Nexus, they are asking for every remaining nation to send every assassination spell they can cast at that dude's provinces in order to kill the guy that cast the global (thus dropping it). You may have the gems for that turn, but what are you going to do with them when you have no commanders in your entire empire?

Natural selection and a glut of savvy players will curb even the most potentially abusive thing you can think of, and at the end of the day the ability to make a clam every turn is every bit one of Oceania's special powers as Abysia's ability to make a blood hunter every turn.

That being the case, I'd like to argue for no mods other than the ones to make the game possible. Let's not nerf nations because of what might happen before we even figure out what this play environment does to the game. Speculations are nice and everything, but lets actually get some testing in before we radically alter how the game plays.

[Micah]

You can't very well counter the "abusive tactic" of clamming because no one can tell it's happening. It doesn't show up in the score graphs (unlike Nexus).

I'm not concerned with Oceania making a clam every turn so much as everyone making 10 of the damn things every turn. It will introduce disgusting amounts of power creep into the late-game, and will also likely be a mandatory strategy that every nation has to follow if they're trying to win. Mandatory strategy + power creep + micromanagement = bad. Wish should not be something that you can cast 5 times/turn.

[Evilhomer]

Blood hunting doesn't show up in the graphs either. I'm doing 500 blood slaves at turn 40 in one game now. This game will obviously go 100+ turns and a successful blood nation can easily do 2000-3000 slaves per turn at that point (probably more). So if you want to ban/nerf clams you probalby should ban/nerf blood nations aswell for the same reason.

[Micah]

Blood magic has an ongoing cost in mage time and lost income, and scales with the number of provinces you own, along with gold and gem income. You still give up something for those slaves (3000 slaves in a turn drains an entire capital province's worth of population from your empire every month, on top of the mage time and unrest costs). Blood is really damn good, but it's not really put at an abnormal advantage just because of a large map or a long game (I think it's slightly disadvantaged by a long game because of the population drain, actually). If you want to debate that Blood is unbalanced in general that's a different point.

Clams do not have an ongoing cost aside from needing warm bodies, and scale with game LENGTH. A clam you make on turn 10 will have pumped out 90 pearls by turn 100. I can't think of many other amazingly good uses for water gems, either, so it's not like you give up an opportunity for kickass summons or item forging when you invest in a clam instead (the water queens are amazing, but since there are only 3 of them between 60 nations they're not going to make much of a dent on overall gem consumption)

[Evilhomer]

Blood is not at all disadvantaged by a long game. Not at all. Yes you may lose some pop and get a bit of unrest (less income) but with 3000 slaves/turn your a monster. And a blood hunter is a 1 time investment just like a clam (mage ca 150 gp +1 sang dousing rod (5 slaves)). And just like a clam it will pay of the more turns it is allowed to hunt. And if you nerf/remove clams you will have to do the same to blood stones and fever fetishes, and you will end up hurting some nations alot because of this.

(do note that my argument is not to nerf blood, simply do not nerf anything).

[FAJ]

I dont think blood hunting and clamming are so comparable. An enemy can see and stop blood hunting with attacks and remote spells. You need to protect each blood hunting province from remote attack. The amount of effort to make blood hunting unbalanced can be matched by others to thwart it, but using clams isn't exactly hard, or easy to stop. That, and I would rather have a player have 1000 slaves than 1000 pearls.

Fever fetishes require a lot of micromanagment, and massive amounts of fire gems arn't quite as devestating as pearls, or even slaves.

I am for the limiting of clams. (Or, if someone could make a mod that makes them work like fever fetishs, but produce pearls instead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

[Evilhomer]

you can't compare 1000 slaves against 1000 astral pearls. Getting 1000 slaves are A LOT easier than getting 1000 astral pearls from clams. And I dunno how you intend to stop blood hunting going on in protected castle provinces. And what about blood stones ? they are atleast as good as clams (tho only a few nations can make them)

[Foodstamp]

Let's not over analyze this game too much. A lot of the tactics being mentioned usually lead to victories in standard large games, yet people are not banning them from there.

It is true that in a game of this size, it is going to have an even larger impact, but if you do get rid of things like clam hording, blood hunting etc, players are still going to find and use the most efficient means possible to exploit the massive map size.

Out of the gate, nations are going to benefit from this map, should they be banned too? Let's not go overboard with banning things. I can understand Arcane Nexus, because beyond the initial effort, it is pretty much game breaking after that. But clam hording and blood hunting are going to take lots of micromanagement, lots of commanders recruited and equipped to facilitate.

A thousand commanders not doing anything but producing pearls is at the very worst going to be a late game sight, and if someone is able to devote the resources and man power to that endeavor, the game is probably already close to over anyway.

[Evilhomer]

Just to clarify, Im not arguing for a ban on blood nations =). In fact i don't want anything banned (well AN i don't really care about).

[Hadrian_II]

id like to join, and i will mail you my preferences soon.

[Amhazair]

How can you refuse a game like this?

Sleepless nights, stressful evenings, lukewarm pizza's hurriedly gulped up in front of the computer, half of your time at work spent pondering potential strategies instead of working... where do I sign?

I'll send a mail with nation preferences and votes as soon as I decide what I'd like to play.


P.S. I'm slightly in favor of limiting gem producing items in some way (perhaps imposing a maximum number you can own of turn number*x or by making them more expensive or something), but I'm not terribly fussed about it either. After all, someone will probably win this game.

[Tyrant]

Sign me up please.

I vote in favor of Nexus ban, against Utterdark ban, and for Difficult research. I'll vote on era later.

Thanks for hosting V!

[thraveboy]

I'm anti-banning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Stelteck]

I just signed in !!

Stelteck.

[Velusion]

Keep in mind this will be the only game like this for dom3, so consider this a sort of test game.

If I find aspects that I think significantly make this sort of game less fun we will get rid of it for the next megagame. For those people that think something is unbalanced/unfun I invite you to join this game and prove your point. If you succeed you have my permission to then mercilessly mock those who disagreed with you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Micah - Personally I totally agree with you. I find clam hording to be a remarkably unfun part of late large dom3 games. So much so that I generally don't pursue that path myself even though it gives great advantages.

Unfortunately though clams have always been a central aspect to late dom3 and dom2 games. The established players are used to this and accept it - some even like it. I don't think there will be much traction for changing this, especially since this sort of game is so unknown.

I will say that with the victory conditions there will be a fine line between over-hording and normal hording. %65 of the provinces is what's needed to win, so if a player sits too much on his *** without expanding he will fall behind. Turtling will not work in this game IMHO. You might be making a bazillion pearls a turn but if somoene on the other side of the world is expanding much quicker you are wasting your time.

That said, I'm sure the winner will have some trick going on - like Utterdark, Arcane Nexus or Clam Whoreding.

[Shovah32]

Sign me up

[Baalz]

Not to go too far off topic, but has anybody given thought to possible anti-clam strategies? Assuming the clams are being held in a (multiple) dome protected province with a nasty army patrolling for assassins, is there any way to cause casualties to the clam holders? Assuming, of course, that you know they're there.

How about in-game ways to limit the production of clams? Astral Corruption comes to mind, anything else that is hostile to clam hoarding? With (very) hard research I guess there would be a lot of clams forged before AC could be a possibility....

[Velusion]

I removed a couple players from the list who forgot to send me their passwords. Once I get them they will be added back! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Ironhawk]

Just for the record: You realize that the settings of this game strongly encourage bless strategies, right? Are you sure you dont want to add a house rule about blesses?

[Velusion]

Ironhawk said:
Just for the record: You realize that the settings of this game strongly encourage bless strategies, right? Are you sure you dont want to add a house rule about blesses?



Which settings specifically?

[Teraswaerto]

Hard research I imagine. I may join the game, not sure, the idea of crazy marathon turns later on scares me...

[K]

Blood hunting and clams both have the same counter: kill the person doing it. Assassination spells, kill spells, straight battles, and the like all hurt the clammer. If you have 60 clams, then you have 60 leaders who can be killed and who will drop their clams.

As for bless strategies, they actually aren't encouraged by these settings. Bless strategies all fail in the late game, and with a game this size there will be a late game. The fact that your dominion is a hellscape because you set it on fire for a high bless means that on turn 100 you've missed out on building a lot of troops and mages.

But once again, I have to ask: why ban anything? Don't you want someone to actually win this thing?

[Teraswaerto]

You don't need to take terrible scales for a useful bless. Nations like C'tis will do badly with hard research.

[Shovah32]

K said:
Blood hunting and clams both have the same counter: kill the person doing it. Assassination spells, kill spells, straight battles, and the like all hurt the clammer. If you have 60 clams, then you have 60 leaders who can be killed and who will drop their clams.

As for bless strategies, they actually aren't encouraged by these settings. Bless strategies all fail in the late game, and with a game this size there will be a late game. The fact that your dominion is a hellscape because you set it on fire for a high bless means that on turn 100 you've missed out on building a lot of troops and mages.

But once again, I have to ask: why ban anything? Don't you want someone to actually win this thing?



How do you assasinate commanders in a multi-domed, castled province with a large patrolling army?

[Foodstamp]

Kill the army?

[WSzaboPeter]

I think that banning Arcane Nexus is a good idea, since the benefit is clear and relative easy to achieve it and has no real downside (other then a lot of people will hate you).
In the other hand banning Utterdark or other globals, heavy bless and other things will lead to the simple fact that nations with better troops will win. Let's imagine the extreme, that we manage to ban every "cheesy" mean to win... So someone with Arcoscephale and a bargain pretender focused on armored elephants starts near T'ien Ch'i Spring and Atumn. By the time he will research with very hard or hard conjuration or other magic to deal with the Elephants he will be raw meat. But then let's ban armored elephants too? I hope you get my point where does this goes.

[Hadrian_II]

Foodstamp said:
Kill the army?



If you can kill the army guarding the clam factory you have to defeat the clamming player before (or does someone put such things on his border?)

[Foodstamp]

I don't understand what you mean? If you cannot kill his army, then what does it matter that he is gem hording? He has already beat you.

[Shovah32]

What if the army is nowhere near the border? What if he has NAPs with his neighbours ect.

[Teraswaerto]

Why would he need to keep all clams in one place? Stick them on scouts and sneak around if the carriers being killed starts to be a problem. Well, it would be micromanagement hell...

[Ironhawk]

Velusion said:
Which settings specifically?



The settings favor blessing for follow reasons:

1) Hard/Very Hard Research: Blesses work from turn 1. Hard research means that all magic-heavy nations will be very vulnerable to attack for like all of the early game.

2) Low Magic Sites: Even if you do bust your butt and get research done, what good is it when you dont have any gems to cast those spells or summon those units?

3) Map Size: Poor scales can be easily balanced if you constantly expand. A map of this size makes that easier. Not to mention the number of players means there will always be a nice weak neighbor to be found.

[Shovah32]

Even low level battle magic(acid bolt, magma bolts ect) can have a fairly big effect on most blessed troops and dosnt take long for a magic based nation to reach

[Velusion]

Foodstamp said:
I don't understand what you mean? If you cannot kill his army, then what does it matter that he is gem hording? He has already beat you.



Technically this is incorrect. He isn't hording gems, he is hording clams and probably spending the gems produced by the clams freely to kill your army... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Methel]

map size i would say works against bless. The scales.. um scale with the number of provinces you own. Even if you take a lot of ground, you have a weaker base with poor scales.

[Velusion]

Ironhawk said:
1) Hard/Very Hard Research: Blesses work from turn 1. Hard research means that all magic-heavy nations will be very vulnerable to attack for like all of the early game.




Agree. But the prospect many nations having researched all of the paths in the end game is too unappetizing to me. I'm sort of rooting for Hard research though instead of Very Hard...


Ironhawk said:
2) Low Magic Sites: Even if you do bust your butt and get research done, what good is it when you dont have any gems to cast those spells or summon those units?



Not sure this will be much of a factor in this large/chaotic a game. In theory yes, but I'm not really worried. Besides I don't think 40 is that low.


Ironhawk said:
3) Map Size: Poor scales can be easily balanced if you constantly expand. A map of this size makes that easier. Not to mention the number of players means there will always be a nice weak neighbor to be found.



Can't agree here. As you said it should "balance" out. Heavy blesses will get more provinces due to expansions while the others should have better scales in thier provinces to counter this. IMHO I doubt map-size really makes that much of a differnce.

While I do think in theory the bless nations should do a little better than they already do, I'd rather wait to see what the actual results are. If the top 5 nations at the end are all heavy bless nations I'll consider a house rule for next game - but from what I've seen in larger games bless nations don't exactly end up winning that much more than normal ones. (i.e. http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=d3maars&amp;Number=509540&amp;fpar t=&amp;PHPSESSID=)

I also think you'll have a lot of players expecting this and building their magic-nations to try and survive a bless rush (i.e. Awake Pretender)

Besides... I shudder at the thought of trying to come up with a balanced "bless" House Rule that most people would agree on. more likely I'd just start a never-ending argument...

[jutetrea]

In general I agree with Ironhawk. LA nations generally have better stock troops (armor), while EA nations generally have better/higher access to magic. Limiting sites to 40 on top of heavy research will make it difficult.

On the other hand, it is a test game and we'll see if LA nations or bless nations just instantly dominate and then can continue to compete vs those magic nations who survive.

All EA nations should gang up on the LA nations anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif After they stomp the nastiest bless nations.

By the way, when will nation selection occur?

[Velusion]

Not until we fill up + Patch comes out or the 11th. Which ever is sooner.

[mivayan]

Ah.. I was sure I wouldn't join, because it's way too big... but it's so tempting since it's a rare event.


K said:
Blood hunting and clams both have the same counter: kill the person doing it. Assassination spells, kill spells, straight battles, and the like all hurt the clammer. If you have 60 clams, then you have 60 leaders who can be killed and who will drop their clams.


The blood hunters will be in 50 different provinces, so you need domes and armies in 50 places rather than just a few. In theory population destruction works too.

Gem generating items will be important. Either mod away/ban all or none... game might be fun either way.


Ironhawk said:
2) Low Magic Sites: Even if you do bust your butt and get research done, what good is it when you dont have any gems to cast those spells or summon those units?


40 is default for middle era. Is that considered low?

You are right in that quite a lot of nations will be wiped out early by bless nations. But I dont think banning dual-9 blesses will change that, and those aren't a no-brainer choice for anyone except mictlan in a game this size.

[Micah]

Don't forget that since clams are items they can be yanked out of the castle in question and redistributed before any assassination attempts occur, even if you were able to kill a patrolling army deep in enemy territory. So now we're talking about a large force and/or several SC's teleporting/Astral travelling into a province (since you can bet that it'll be patrolled by stuff that'll kill a single SC off easily) and then spamming remote attack spells at every location that's likely to have a lab and a couple of commanders in it.

Oh, just remembered, all those domes prevent travel spells, don't they? Well, now we're talking about teleporting in next to the target province and then attacking it the next turn after showing the defender the composition and capabilities of your army from taking out the PD. Maybe you could put scouts there and then outfit your SCs with stealthed-in items for surprise. Good luck with that.

There is no effective counter to clams. Guarding 5-10 forgers from Corruption horrors to get them into play isn't that hard, and once the clams are made they're nigh-impossible to get rid of short of the complete destruction of the owning nation. They don't show up in the income graph, and they're maintenance-free. Leaving them in the game is going to be akin to making them like recruiting troops. There might be some other stuff you can do with your gold besides buying troops, but you kind of have to do it to some degree.

Flames from the sky has about a 5% chance of getting through a quadruple-domed province, and costs 35 gems per cast, so that's about 20 castings, on average, or 700 fire gems. It will hit half of the units, and kill most of them if they're in the realm of 10 HP, so that means your attacker has to expect that there are about 1500 gems' worth of clams in a province to make it cost-effective to spam Flames, which works out to about 1 castle/quadruple dome/patrolling army per 50 clams to be on the safe side of the cost-effectiveness curve. Even with some liches crawling around to spam Drain Life on any teleporting SC that might come calling that's not a particularly heavy infrastructure investment to keep your clams safe. Add in the obvious problem of actually figuring out where the clams ARE and the advantage for the defender in this situation is pretty insurmountable.

[FAJ]

I think making a mod that makes clams work like fever fetishes would be a comprimise.

[Cor]

FAJ, that was going to be my suggestion, kindof. I think modding the clams to have higher costs and higher path requirements would be fair. Or take them out all together.

[DrPraetorious]

It varies a lot from nation to nation.

I don't think any of this twiddling is needed. By the time a game of this size really gets into the late stages, every player will have hosts of independents. Everyone will be clam-hordeing, people will be bootsrapping into a bloodeconomy, empowering mages of the iron order to make bloodstones, all kinds of crazy crap.

If you have nature on your God there will be entire stacks of units, choking and near death, with sacred shrouds and fever fetishes built off of enchantresses.

GOOD.

A game like this should be all about the crazy. I want 128-member communions. I want them to fight a force of 80 mindless golem super-combatants (your master enslave is useless!) The only reason to even keep playing a game like this into the late stages is too enjoy watching the absolute insanity unfold.

[RamsHead]

I think that when the game does start, when we post in here, we should put the name of our nation and it's age at the beginning of our posts to make things easier for everyone.

[Jazzepi]

I completely agree.

Jazzepi

[Gandalf Parker]

As far as this game being too big.. If 60 people join then it wont be. Whats that map? 1000 provinces? 1500? If its 1000 provinces then we are only looking at 16 provinces per nation. If its 1500 (the maximum allowed) then its 25 provinces per nation. Its not quite the games of wide-open wilderness that allows for massive changes of strategy such as I like to play.

And whether or not this type of game will make certain things too powerful or not is something Im interested in seeing. The devs might also.

[Velusion]

The map is 1000 provinces so 16.6 provinces per player.

Gandalf - there will be lots of wide open wilderness... it will just probably belong to someone else http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. You should join just to shock everyone... If you win I swear I'll never make fun of your posts ever again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Maybe we can rope a Dev into playing... How about it Kris? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

Joining Ive done, winning Ive done. I dont really see an advantage to doing either as Gandalf Parker. I think the same would be true of devs or staff. You probably wont know if any are in your games Im afraid.

[Yucky]

I would like to play.

[Velusion]

Gandalf Parker said:
Joining Ive done, winning Ive done. I dont really see an advantage to doing either as Gandalf Parker. I think the same would be true of devs or staff. You probably wont know if any are in your games Im afraid.



Suuuuuure Gandalf.... sure.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Edit: Just Kidding!

[Manuk]

I would like to join the crowd. My choices by mail. Cheers.

[Shmonk]

Count me in, a PM is on the way with my choices and votes.

[Saint_Dude]

I'm in.

Although I have submitted my choices and votes, I will say here that I support the effort to ban Arcane Nexus as it would simply break a large game such as this. I don't support banning anything else (although it may make sense to mod the clams so that they are more expensive).

I look forward to the crazy end game in 2010. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

I'll publish the initial results of the voting once we hit 30 people (2 more to go!).

P.S. If you signed up and you don't see your name on the list it's because I haven't gotten your password.

[K]

Baalz said:
Not to go too far off topic, but has anybody given thought to possible anti-clam strategies? Assuming the clams are being held in a (multiple) dome protected province with a nasty army patrolling for assassins, is there any way to cause casualties to the clam holders? Assuming, of course, that you know they're there.




If someone has multiple domes in a province and a bunch of clams and a bunch of commanders and an army big enough to catch assasins....who cares? He's just invested a crapload of gems, money, and hero time on focusing his power into a laser point. It'll take so much of his resources to pull this off that he'll most likely lose his current war. It'll take dozens of turns before he breaks even on the gem expenditures, much less turn a profit.


----------------------
As for other people's ideas of things they want to mod out, I have this to say:

Some nations have troops that are objectively better in every category than other people's troops of the same cost, so we should mod out different kinds of troops. Heck, if you get lucky and find good gem sites, you get a huge advantage over your enemies, so we should play on a map with no sites. Oh, and some people are placed in more strategic positions with chokepoints and terrain that slows movement, so we should eliminate all terrain and make sure each province is like a square with four entry points. Last thing, we should mod out the spells in the game because some nations get better spells, since we all know that some types of magic (I'm looking at you Air) are worse than others in the early game.

Maybe we should just play a nice game of chess?

[Digress]

I would like to give it go.

[Hurst]

I'd be happy to join in too.

[Ramiro]

Count me in too !

[Morkilus]

This is almost as exciting as the Council of Wyrms. I hope it gets off the ground running. (I'm in, by the way)

[Velusion]

We we are already over half way full!

Here are the initial vote talleys. I think some people were waiting to see the initial results before committing...

Should we ban Utterdark? 8 Yes, 16 No
Should we ban Arcane Nexus? 21 Yes, 6 No
What should the research speed be? 10 Difficult, 15 Very Difficult
What age should the indys be? 7 Early, 9 Middle, 1 Late

So basically unless there is a huge change Arcane Nexus will be banned and Utterdark will not. I'm still hoping that the "difficult" will over take the "very Difficult" research speed, but we shall see. Looks like the Era will be Early or Middle for sure (though its a toss up).

Also we will of course be using the new patch. Feel free to revise your lists since there are two new nations available.

[Methel]

Im pretty sure I've played against/with Gandalf. Back in the Dom II days. The name kinda sticks with you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[FAJ]

vote for hard research.

[Xietor]

I will play as well.

I vote for difficult research, and against Arcane Nexus, burden of time, and utter dark.

[Velusion]

Xietor said:
I will play as well.

I vote for difficult research, and against Arcane Nexus, burden of time, and utter dark.



Need that password before you get on the list http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Plus your email if you want email notifications.

[Velusion]

We are getting close to being 2/3rds of the way full!

The following people expressed interest but I haven't gotten thier passwords/selections so they aren't on the list yet. There is no hurry to send me the info, I just wanted to remind ya'll.

Lolomo
Xietor
Amhazair

I'm missing passwords from the following people, though I have everything else:

StrictlyRockers

[davegg]

I would like to play, will email password

[Lingchih]

I'd like to sign up. I haven't played MP since DOM2, and have to admit I miss it. I'll send you an email with my info and votes tonite.

[Velusion]

Lingchih said:
I'd like to sign up. I haven't played MP since DOM2, and have to admit I miss it. I'll send you an email with my info and votes tonite.



Be looking forward to it!

P.S. Like those storms the last few days? &lt;&lt;&lt; *lives in Valley Ranch*

[BandarLover]

Ack! Storms!! I live in Arkansas and we always seem to get Texas' crappy weather. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Velusion]

BandarLover said:
Ack! Storms!! I live in Arkansas and we always seem to get Texas' crappy weather. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



Hey all that crap starts out in Cali... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[BandarLover]

lol Damn El Nino!!

[Kydorias]

Ahem. Nothing but sunny skies all year round here, thank you very much.

[Manuk]

I don't like difficult research as it benefits Bless Nations.

[Saint_Dude]

Regular research in a game that is likely to last a couple hundred turns would make Bless strategies worthless. Besides, it would be nice if everyone had not already completed research in all paths midway through the game.

I am rooting for very difficult research. That way players will have to make strategic decisions about which pathways they want to research. If you don't employ very difficult research in a game as large as this one, when would you employ it?

[Velusion]

Updated!

There are only 18 spots left - it would be fantastic if we could actually fill up!

[Velusion]

Saint_Dude said:
Regular research in a game that is likely to last a couple hundred turns would make Bless strategies worthless. Besides, it would be nice if everyone had not already completed research in all paths midway through the game.




I totally agree - which is why "normal" research isn't an option.


Saint_Dude said:
I am rooting for very difficult research. That way players will have to make strategic decisions about which pathways they want to research. If you don't employ very difficult research in a game as large as this one, when would you employ it?



The downside is that with VD heavy magic nations will be at a distinct disadvantage for many, many turns. After much thought I think 60 for the first research level rather than 100 sounds like a more reasonable compromise. 100 just seems awfully harsh.

As to your question "when would you?" I think a game with a higher provinces per player would probably be more appropriate - something like 25/30 provinces per player rather than 16 per player.

So I'm rooting for just Difficult - but, this is sort of a test game, so I don't mind trying it with the VD if that is the vote count. Either way should be interesting.

[Tyrant]

The VD is going to make many nations completly non-viable IMO. Various caster centered nations are for sure and for certain going to have to defend themselves against uber bless rushes for many turns until they get the magic to defend themselves and i predict it will be a 40 player game by turn25. Five hundred research to level three if i have it right.

How much time will we have between when the settings are set and the pick list is due?

BTW, the nation pick procedure is very cool, it's like a little game of it's own.

[Velusion]

Current Vote Tally:

Should we ban Utterdark? 10 Yes, 25 No
Should we ban Arcane Nexus? 31 Yes, 8 No
What should the research speed be? 19 Difficult, 18 Very Difficult
What age should the indys be? 9 Early, 17 Middle, 2 Late

So it's pretty much a forgone conclusion that AN will be banned and UD will not. It also appears that the age fighting in will be Middle.

It's still a complete toss up in the research area though. Had a lot of "difficults" come in yesterday/today.

Also - looking at the submitted nation selections it would appear that provided you sent me 4 choices, chances are you will get one of those, provided you didn't pick the most popular ones. Of course, as we get more players the chances of that decrease. If we fill up quite a bit of people who didn't provide 8 or more preferences will be stuck with random assignments in the lowest seed.

[Evilhomer]

Im not a modder, but it would be cool if it was possible to have different research dif at different magic levels. Perhaps "normal" reserch for level 1-3, difficult for 4-6 and v.difficult at 7-9. This way the magic nations would be able to reach some magic to counter the bless nations, and it would still take a long time to finish all research.

[Evilhomer]

oh any hint what the top 5 picks are ?? would be funny to know what nations people like/consider strong.

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
oh any hint what the top 5 picks are ?? would be funny to know what nations people like/consider strong.



Probably exactly what you think would be popular! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Actually, once assignments are done would people like to see everyone's picks and how they were assigned? I'm going to use random numbers from random.org, but I'd be happy to break down the process for clarities sake once completed.

[Evilhomer]

A stab in the dark for the 5 most picked nations are : EA niefel, EA helheim, EA lanka, LA ermor and LA R'lyeh. Was I even close ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Also - there has been some questions on the seeding process.

Namely: "So if get my forth pick on my list then I'm automatically going to get %20 extra pop on my capital?"

No. Or at least - not necessarily. How it works:

After the first seed I look at the remaining players and *discard* all nations from preferences that have already been assigned in the first seed. So... for example:

Player A choices:
Vanheim MA
Niefelhiem EA
Pythium
MA Marignon

Player B choices
Neifelhiem EA
MA Ermor
MA Miclan
MA Oceania

Player C choices:
Pythium
EA Abysia
Tir na n'Og

Player D Choices:
MA Vanheim
MA Caelum

Player E Choices:
(none)

Would resolve like such:

Seed 1
Player B auto gets Nifelheim (no conflict)
Player C auto gets Pythium (no conflict)
Player A vs. Player D - Player D wins the random roll off and gets MA Vanheim

Seed 2
Player A auto gets MA Marignon (no conflict)

Seed 3
Player E gets a random assignment.

Now this is going to much more complicated with 62 players - but keep in mind if you pick the most popular choices, even if your list is long you still probably won't get into a low seed.

I would be surprised if lowest seed is higher than 6.

[Meglobob]

Velusion said:Actually, once assignments are done would people like to see everyone's picks and how they were assigned? I'm going to use random numbers from random.org, but I'd be happy to break down the process for clarities sake once completed.



Would be interesting...perhaps the most definitive indication of what players really think are the most powerful nations.


Evilhomer said:
A stab in the dark for the 5 most picked nations are : EA niefel, EA helheim, EA lanka, LA ermor and LA R'lyeh. Was I even close ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



I went for 2 in that list in my choices and give serious consideration to the other 3.

[Evilhomer]

Not true, a lot of players pick nations they are comfortable with and like (cool theme, fun to play etc) not just nations they consider powerful. In my case i consider 1 of my picks strong, 3 above average and one average in strenght for example.

[Velusion]

Evilhomer said:
Not true, a lot of players pick nations they are comfortable with and like (cool theme, fun to play etc) not just nations they consider powerful. In my case i consider 1 of my picks strong, 3 above average and one average in strenght for example.



I think the listing would tell you more about players - like who plays to win vs. who plays with nations they thematically like.

We all play for fun though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Most people are somewhere in the middle I would guess. Like Meglo they threw in a couple well known heavy hitters, but have a few soft spots for favorites. There are probably about 10 nations that are VERY popular - so getting those will be tough. It's good to throw in another average/sub-average nation you just enjoy playing in case you don't get those.

And of course there is a small but not insignificant number of players that choose the "Random" route.

[Meglobob]

Yes, rule no.1 never pick a nation you do not like playing, so no Helheim or Vanheim for me!

[Gandalf Parker]

You mean like my list before I pulled out? I think I was in 3rd place and would have gotten my picks.
early pangaee
middle pangaee
early ulm
middle man
tir na nog
early maverni
early oceania
middle marignon

Personally I would tend to avoid any nation being heavily discussed in the IRC channel. Anything with the proper method of play being so completely laid out would be boring to me. And particularly unfun if you get it "wrong".

I kindof expected the experts to take their favorite topics so they can prove their points but it doesnt look like thats happening. Makes me wonder if they are avoiding those for the same reason.

[LeSquide]

With a game this big 'properly' following a tier 1 strategy might not even work; besides the possibility of getting ganked six ways from Sunday for playing a really competitive Lanka, there might be someone coming out of left field that has that strategy's number.

[Foodstamp]

I picked 3 strong ones, and 3 I have a soft spot for. All 6 I like so if I luck out and get the strong ones great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I have never had the chance to play a very strong nation in MP play, but if I get one of my other 3 choices, I will not be disappointed either. 2 of those 3 are pretty competitive and the other one I think I can make work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Wikd Thots]

Gandalf Parker said:
You mean like my list before I pulled out? I think I was in 3rd place and would have gotten my picks.


I wondered about that. Gandy says he playsj but you don't know him, Velusion razzs him on it, and suddenly one of the players dropped out. Ticked off G? Were you going to try MP?

[Teraswaerto]

I gather I can still change or update my list before the deadline? Mainly add a few to the list, there are too many nations I really don't want to risk getting totally random assignment.

[Evilhomer]

My hat is off for those who dare to go the random path. However just like you tero I don't want to risk getting stuck with a nation i dislike.

[Velusion]

Teraswaerto said:
I gather I can still change or update my list before the deadline? Mainly add a few to the list, there are too many nations I really don't want to risk getting totally random assignment.



Yep - feel free.

[Gandalf Parker]

With the vote tally posted I would guess that everyone might redo their lists.

@wicked:
Actually Ive played MP with pretty much the best players that Dom has to offer. And this one will be interesting but Im also one of the few people who has played in a game this large already.

[jutetrea]

If you've got the time Gandalf I think you should play... either as a whipping horse or to show all us whippersnappers what's up.

I think it'd be fun to hear "Gandalfs picking on MEEEE!" on the thread! "Gandalfs coming, run away!" Or everyone gangs up on you and we still get a chuckle. If you have the time and inclination I think you should be part of it.

[Shovah32]

I think gandalf should play too, im just not sure why i think this. Probably because he has the most experience on large maps

[Baalz]

Velusion said:
And of course there is a small but not insignificant number of players that choose the "Random" route.



So, just curious do the random picks have a random first choice assigned, or do they get the "leftover" pics after everyone else? Seems fairer to go with the former so they don't just get a nation nobody else would claim.

So I'm guessing I'm unlikely to get my 4th choice of Lanka...;)

[Velusion]

Baalz said:

Velusion said:
And of course there is a small but not insignificant number of players that choose the "Random" route.



So, just curious do the random picks have a random first choice assigned, or do they get the "leftover" pics after everyone else? Seems fairer to go with the former so they don't just get a nation nobody else would claim.

So I'm guessing I'm unlikely to get my 4th choice of Lanka...;)



The get leftovers. And your assumption is pretty accurate. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Gandalf Parker]

jutetrea said:
If you've got the time Gandalf I think you should play... either as a whipping horse or to show all us whippersnappers what's up.

I think it'd be fun to hear "Gandalfs picking on MEEEE!" on the thread! "Gandalfs coming, run away!" Or everyone gangs up on you and we still get a chuckle. If you have the time and inclination I think you should be part of it.


I play fairly often but Im afraid that you wont be hearing "Gandalfs picking om MEEEE!" if I can avoid it. When I join, I dont join as Gandalf. The only people who have played me as Gandalf are the devs and the beta-testers.

[Velusion]

Since a mod is already going to be needed for this game - if anyone has a mod that fixes a known verified bugs and has been tested - post the link here so we can include it in the "all-in-one" mod.

[CelestialGoblyn]

I want to play too!

[Velusion]

CelestialGoblyn said:
I want to play too!



We'd be glad to have you but just remember: sign-ups are only "certified" once I receive (via email or PM) your nation preference list (even if you don't have a preference) and your password.

[Foodstamp]

Wow, possibly 50ish if we are waiting on a couple to turn in their passwords and preferences, this is going to be a fun game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Foodstamp said:
Wow, possibly 50ish if we are waiting on a couple to turn in their passwords and preferences, this is going to be a fun game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



Yep, and we still have 6 days left for sign-ups! It's not out of the realm of possibility that we fill up. I have three people who have expressed interest and still waiting on one password...

[Cor]

I cant decide, give me a random nation. I like the sound of that population bonus.

[Fate]

I don't know. I thought the random pick meant that you were willing to take literally any nation in exchange for the population bonus of being last seed. Otherwise someone who chose all random might get the pick of someone who just chose 1 (which defies the meaning of a pick).

If you really don't want to get stuck with a bad nation, make a list of every nation and put the worst ones at the bottom. Your chances of getting one will be next to nill (especially if everyone else chose ~4 favorites).

[StrictlyRockers]

I sent an email to sign up a while ago.

I vote in favor of Nexus ban.

I vote against Utterdark ban.

I vote for Difficult research.

I prefer early age.

[Cor]

Fate said:
I don't know. I thought the random pick meant that you were willing to take literally any nation in exchange for the population bonus of being last seed. Otherwise someone who chose all random might get the pick of someone who just chose 1 (which defies the meaning of a pick).

If you really don't want to get stuck with a bad nation, make a list of every nation and put the worst ones at the bottom. Your chances of getting one will be next to nill (especially if everyone else chose ~4 favorites).



Yeah sorry, thats what i meant. I will take whatever crap you give me, as long as i get a pop bonus. It not like I am going to win anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

Here's a question.

Suppose that my choices 1-4 go in the first round.

On the second round, do I get my #5 choice or do I have to wait for round 5?

Do I get +20% population or +5% population?

[Salamander8]

I'm quite green for MP games, but this massive endeavor sounds like it could be very enjoyable. I would very much like to join this game, and I've already DLed the map. I'll send my projected password and such in a PM shortly.

[FAJ]

As I have read it:

Every round your highest available choice is your 'ticket' for that round. You will get your ticket if you are randomly selected from the people who have it, or if you are the only one with that ticket.

If you have your 1-4 choices taken in the 1st round, your 5th choice will be your ticket in the second seed. you will get +5% if you get it then. if you dont, you will go to your next number. If you run out of choices, you get a random one when all seeds are done.

Thats how i interpreted it.

[Velusion]

StrictlyRockers said:
I sent an email to sign up a while ago.

I vote in favor of Nexus ban.

I vote against Utterdark ban.

I vote for Difficult research.

I prefer early age.



I responded to your message Strictly and mentioned you a few times in the this thread... I need the password you will use. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

DrP:

See below:


Velusion said:
Also - there has been some questions on the seeding process.

Namely: "So if get my forth pick on my list then I'm automatically going to get %20 extra pop on my capital?"

No. Or at least - not necessarily. How it works:

After the first seed I look at the remaining players and *discard* all nations from preferences that have already been assigned in the first seed. So... for example:

Player A choices:
Vanheim MA
Niefelhiem EA
Pythium
MA Marignon

Player B choices
Neifelhiem EA
MA Ermor
MA Miclan
MA Oceania

Player C choices:
Pythium
EA Abysia
Tir na n'Og

Player D Choices:
MA Vanheim
MA Caelum

Player E Choices:
(none)

Would resolve like such:

Seed 1
Player B auto gets Nifelheim (no conflict)
Player C auto gets Pythium (no conflict)
Player A vs. Player D - Player D wins the random roll off and gets MA Vanheim

Seed 2
Player A auto gets MA Marignon (no conflict)

Seed 3
Player E gets a random assignment.

Now this is going to much more complicated with 62 players - but keep in mind if you pick the most popular choices, even if your list is long you still probably won't get into a low seed.

I would be surprised if lowest seed is higher than 6.

[Gandalf Parker]

If you have not built your god and assigned a password to it when you saved the file then simply respond that you will use "no password". He is not asking for anything particularly personal. Just the password of your pretender, if you gave it one.

[lch]

Everybody should use a password, always. Everybody can see who is using passwords and who isn't when they connect to the server in the console window, after all.

[Tyrant]

Two questions about the map- Is it wrap around? Are any of the small bodies of water no-start?

[BigDisAwesome]

Just sent you the email with all my info.

[Velusion]

Tyrant said:
Two questions about the map- Is it wrap around? Are any of the small bodies of water no-start?



It is not wrap-around and all of the small disconnected lakes are marked "no start".

[Velusion]

We have 3 days until start and there are only 10 spots left!

For those still on the fence - time and availability is running out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Velusion]

Gandalf Parker said:
If you have not built your god and assigned a password to it when you saved the file then simply respond that you will use "no password". He is not asking for anything particularly personal. Just the password of your pretender, if you gave it one.



I second Ich. If you forget and create your pretender god with no password (it's very easy to do), provided we haven't started yet - take the time to recreate the god with a password and re-upload. I've already been in a couple games were a player didn't do this and there was always a lingering temptation (perhaps justified) to blame someone else when orders don't get resolved properly.

Please try and avoid this by using a password.

[Evilhomer]

Maybe we should do a sign up in 1 day and get a 5% pop bonus drive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

1% sounds fine to me for an early bird bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

It should make a big difference in the long term with good scales since it's exponential growth.

Jazzepi

[Manuk]

one final desire: wrap around map.

I believe that Gandalf has a big one.

Also
Utterdark=on
Arcane Nexus=on or off is ok with me

[Velusion]

Manuk said:
one final desire: wrap around map.




One day I'd like to use a good natural looking huge 1000+ wraparound map, but I've yet to see one I really like.

I'm picky about the maps I like - both from functional and aesthetic standpoints.

[lch]

Although I've decided that I won't play in this (maybe as a sub later), I can only second this: To make it a little more balanced, use a wraparound map. That way everybody is surrounded by enemies and others have a better access to him in case he gets too strong and they want to ally against him.

[Cor]

I would have to say that a reach around...er... wrap around would be a very very good idea. But I will play either way, and if the host wants this map, that is fine with me. His server, his rules.

[Velusion]

Hey, if you have a good looking 1000 province wrap around map post it here. I doubt I have time to tweak it for this game but it would be nice to have for the future.

I'm not a big fan of Gandalf's map - specifically the color palate and the water provinces.

[Velusion]

I'm going to be putting the final touches on the custom mod for this game. If you have a tested mod that fixes a known bug please post the link for it here.

[HoneyBadger]

hey I'll play-or atleast I'll try to-sending email now

[RamsHead]

I want to change my vote from very difficult research to just difficult research.

[Velusion]

RamsHead said:
I want to change my vote from very difficult research to just difficult research.


Got it.

[Velusion]

There have been a lot of changes in preferences of late. I should have replied to all those that changed their minds with a confirmation. If you didn't get a quick confirmation from me resend them please.

For those that didn't change their minds, your confirmation is that you are listed on the first post! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Baalz]

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=519575&amp;page=0&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1

Looks like there is a 100,000 unit limit, have you run into this Gandalf?

[atul]

Heh, 100k units is less than 2000 units per nation, which is probably something this game's going to hit before long. Want to get big? Better start killing people, fast. *g*

By the way, what's the indy strength? Didn't see it in the first post, and it's bound to affect nation designs at least a bit.

[Velusion]

Edi said:
100k total. So the more nations, the smaller the total each nation can have assuming they all had an equal number of units.




Hmmm this could be a big problem...

[Evilhomer]

Hehe, I can see people ganging up on LA r'lyeh and LA ermor cause they can't build troops anymore

[jutetrea]

It could actually be pretty cool if there was a disband command and a nation specific cap. 1000 units per nation, chaff gets "upgraded" as needed.

If the game mechanics worked differently, maybe a max upkeep/turn allowed.

But yes, could be a large problem.

[Teraswaerto]

Many nations will be knocked out before we start to approach the limit I think. Still, it could be a problem.

[Evilhomer]

It might actually be a good idea to remove LA ermor/r'lyeh since they spawn so many troops and might just aggrevate this problem.

[Velusion]

At a thousand provinces - that equals only 100 units per province.

How positive are we that this cap exists and is implemented in 3.08? It's a pity its not something we can extend or get rid of. With the processing power available now days It seems like a rather outdated artificial cap.

[Velusion]

Actually - to test this someone could just play a single-player game using the SA mod and check the scores.html file to see if the total ever passes 100K...

[Gandalf Parker]

http://www.dom3minions.com/games/PvK-e-Oceania/
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/PvK-e-Ulm/
http://www.dom3minions.com/games/Massive/

We have been running all-nation games since before Dom3 was released. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I also had one where I edited one nation into impossible to lose then left the game running on a continual hosting loop. It got over 200 turns but Im afraid that a later problem on that machine lost the files. Might be fun to do another of those.

[thejeff]

In the latest score file for Gandalf's PvK-e-Oceania game, it shows a total of 136808 for army size.

If that's right, 100K is not a hard limit.

[Velusion]

thejeff said:
In the latest score file for Gandalf's PvK-e-Oceania game, it shows a total of 136808 for army size.

If that's right, 100K is not a hard limit.



Yep - lots of his other games hover just under 100K though. Probably the only way to find out is to play and see...

Gandalf - are these all dom3 games?

[Gandalf Parker]

They are all Dom3. I cant list the ones that we did prior to the release since they show some things that were taken out. But I definetly managed to crash the game fairly quickly with my insanity tests. Nearly all of the maximums were increased far beyond what Johan originally thought that anyone could possibly want. The only things that got tweaked smaller were some map maximums and packet settings.

The latest is the Oceania game which is still running under 3.08

[HoneyBadger]

Oh, I don't think I put it in my email, but I vote very difficult for research

[Fal]

ah what the hell, sign me up, will send email today.

[Velusion]

We are FULL!

Fal sneaked in and grabbed the last spot. Once I get a password from Arameyen and the same (plus preferences) from Fal I'll start assigning nations.

[davegg]

Great!

[WSzaboPeter]

Waiting and hoping for the very best of luck...

[Velusion]

Seeding is complete:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/perpetuality_seeds.html

Lots of interesting data...

I'll update the front page and provide IP/Ports later tonight.

[Jazzepi]

I'll have to learn how to play LA midgard real fast XD

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

Just to verify.

Starting pop is 30,000 (or default, unmolested) if no bonus is given.

5% -&gt; 31,500
10% -&gt; 33,000
15% -&gt; 34,500
20% -&gt; 36,000

Correct?

Coastal start positions will be handed out to the following nations in descending order of preference:
LA Atlantis
LA Marignon
EA Agartha
LA Vanheim
EA Vanheim
EA Helheim
MA Vanheim
MA Agartha
LA Ermor

Does anyone else have sailing or a desire to be semi-aquatic?

[BandarLover]

I can NOT wait for this game to get started.

And I know you'll take care of this but I'll ask any ways...

Isn't there a particular mod we'll be needing for this?

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
Just to verify.

Starting pop is 30,000 (or default, unmolested) if no bonus is given.

5% -&gt; 31,500
10% -&gt; 33,000
15% -&gt; 34,500
20% -&gt; 36,000

Correct?



I do believe you are correct.

DrPraetorious is going to be using his script to make sure everyone gets the correct population bonuses.

Everyone give many thanks to DrP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I'll set stuff up after john stewart.

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
I'll set stuff up after john stewart.



Well if you are going to do that you'll have to partake in Colbert as well...

[Velusion]

Final Vote Tally:

Should we ban Utterdark? 16 Yes, 30 No
Should we ban Arcane Nexus? 41 Yes, 9 No
What should the research speed be? 26 Difficult, 21 Very Difficult
What age should the indys be? 11 Early, 22 Middle, 2 Late

So Arcane Nexus is the only spell that is BANNED. If someone can make that into a mod that will ban AN we will use it , otherwise we'll just make it a rule.

I was surprised that the "difficult" research setting caught up and surpassed the VD setting by so much (which was leading for awhile).

[Foodstamp]

Very cool. I am very excited about this game. Thanks for taking this endeavor on Velusion, and thank you Dr.P for doing the behind the scenes work on the map. I am really looking forward to it.

[Fate]

Wow, this is very exciting. I like the nice seeding key.

Thank you to Dr.P for all the work you are doing, and to Velusion for setting this up.

[Saint_Dude]

DrPraetorious said:
Does anyone else have sailing or a desire to be semi-aquatic?



Shinuyama would very much like to be near the sea (not so much exactly on the coast - but close by). Our Kappa's don't do so well on dry land. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Foodstamp]

Here is a simple mod that makes Arcane Nexus non researchable. The mod includes a banner so you don't accidentally turn it on during your normal games. I tested the mod very quickly, feel free to double check and make sure that Arcane Nexus cannot be researched. Enjoy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Next steps:

1) Create and upload a pretender (giving it the password you gave me) to the server. Which server you upload it to depends on the age of your nation as per below:

Early Age Nations - upload your pretender to:
IP: 67.66.187.69
Port: 15151

Middle Age Nations - upload your pretender to:
IP: 67.66.187.69
Port: 15152

Late Age Nations - upload your pretender to:
IP: 67.66.187.69
Port: 15153

2) Download the map (if you haven't already) attached the forum thread here:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=d3maars&amp;Number=517122&amp;fpar t=&amp;PHPSESSID=

Extract the map (perpetuality.tga) from the zip file and place it in your dominions3/maps folder.

3) I will provide instructions on downloading the required mod soon. You do not need this mod to upload your pretender.

Your pretender MUST be uploaded by Monday the 14th.

[Velusion]

Foodstamp - that seemed to work great! I've integrated it into the custom game mod with a credit to you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Last call for mods that fix bugs!

Currently the custom mod is based off of Gandalf's Single Age mod and includes the following extras:

*Streamers &amp; Standards v3.1 Mod for Dominions III
*No Arcane Nexus Mod

If anyone else had a tested mod they want to use that fixes known bugs please post a link to it here. By this tomorrow night all changes to the mod will be closed.

[Ironhawk]

Wow, nice work Velusion and DrP. I'm impressed with your organizational skills so far!

[DrPraetorious]

Oh, here's the bless fix if you want it:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
#selectspell "Blessing"
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell "Divine Blessing"
#spec 12615680
#end

#selectspell 105
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell 109
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell 112
#spec 12615680
#end
</pre><hr />

Fiddling with something about sea starts. Will be ready in a bit.

[Velusion]

I'll insert that code!


DrPraetorious said:
Fiddling with something about sea starts. Will be ready in a bit.



Take your time - we won't need the .map file until sunday night or so.

[RamsHead]

Holy crap! We have not even started, and we are already on page thirteen!

[Velusion]

RamsHead said:
Holy crap! We have not even started, and we are already on page thirteen!



Megagame = Megathread

[vfb]

I can't find any mention of whether random events are common or rare. Are we using the default setting of common?

Edit, just in case this post gets lost in the forest

It is difficult to make a pretender without knowing whether random events are common or rare.

[atul]

DrPraetorious said:
Coastal start positions will be handed out to the following nations in descending order of preference:

....

MA Agartha



Um, this is probably the first time I even look at MA Agartha (I think that's my nation), but it would appear to me that 1) coast is not absolute must for a nation with less than half of the troops amphibians and 2) resource-needy troops get really shafted with a capital with only few land neighbours (resources won't transfer from water to land, IIRC?).

In summary, if it's not too late, I'd like not to get any special placing for my nation (as the game apparently doesn't do it either) to be on coast. But it's not a major thing for me, either way.

...now I just have to make the nation itself work for me...

[lch]

Velusion said:
Seeding is complete:

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/perpetuality_seeds.html

Lots of interesting data...


Hah, you bet. Velusion is playing Ermor again, among other things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif LA even. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[WSzaboPeter]

I think that those settings that are not mentioned are standard. So, strength of independents will be 5, multipliers 100, random: common and so on.
This makes sense, doesn't it?

BTW: I have uploaded my pretender for LA Arcoscephale, Sibylline Guidance. I'm a bit sad that I lost LA Ermor, but that's my bad luck.

[LoloMo]

DrPraetorious said:
Oh, here's the bless fix if you want it:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
#selectspell "Blessing"
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell "Divine Blessing"
#spec 12615680
#end

#selectspell 105
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell 109
#spec 12632064
#end

#selectspell 112
#spec 12615680
#end
</pre><hr />

Fiddling with something about sea starts. Will be ready in a bit.



Sorry, what is this? Is double bless banned?

[WSzaboPeter]

LoloMo said:

Sorry, what is this? Is double bless banned?



Nop, it seems it's the bless fix. You know the problem with undead and bless.

[Salamander8]

I'll work on pretender tonight when I get home from work. I'm really looking forward to this monster game and want to thank Velusion for starting this, and everyone else here for joining and helping with the code. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Velusion]

vfb said:
It is difficult to make a pretender without knowing whether random events are common or rare.




As WSzaboPeter pointed out correctly from the first post - all things not explicitly mentioned are default.

So yes - random events are common.

[vfb]

Thanks! Could you please turn off the red in my quote, it's painful to look at.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

And I'll get going on making my pretender.

[Velusion]

WSzaboPeter said:
I think that those settings that are not mentioned are standard. So, strength of independents will be 5, multipliers 100, random: common and so on.
This makes sense, doesn't it?

BTW: I have uploaded my pretender for LA Arcoscephale, Sibylline Guidance. I'm a bit sad that I lost LA Ermor, but that's my bad luck.



Sorry about winning that roll http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. At least you got your second pick though... poor DrPraetorious lost three in a row and FrankTrollman gave me a list of 10 and didn't' get any of his...

Actually the only reason my first choice was LA Ermor was because I was randomly assigned em once in another big game. Now that I sort of figured out what I was screwing up I want to try again. I almost didn't pick them because of the micromanagement though...

[lch]

Velusion said:
Actually the only reason my first choice was LA Ermor was because I was randomly assigned em once in another big game. Now that I sort of figured out what I was screwing up I want to try again. I almost didn't pick them because of the micromanagement though...


I don't even remember you playing anything else than Ermor, since you were somehow always assigned to them from a draft (yes, even when he didn't do the draft... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif).

[Baalz]

So, seeing the nations and players, anybody care to take a guess at who the front runners are going to be?

Here's my top three to watch:

LA Marignon - Catquiet
LA Ermor - Velusion
EA Caelum - Terawaerto (%5)

[Gandalf Parker]

EA Tir na O'og ..... Meglobob
LA Patala ..... Morkilus
EA Niefelheim ..... Honeybadger
LA Atlantis ..... FrankTrollman

and Pretender using EA Pangaea if he hadnt pulled out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
He was going to use one of my strategy plans for large-map/long-games altho having the game filled up might have altered that abit.
a Difficult Pangaea strategy (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=dom3&amp;Number=465882&amp;Forum=f 187,f194,f195&amp;Words=%2Bdifficult%20%2Bpangaea&amp;Sear chpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Main=465882&amp;Search=true&amp;where=su b&amp;Name=&amp;daterange=1&amp;newerval=5&amp;newertype=y&amp;olderva l=&amp;oldertype=&amp;bodyprev=#Post465882)

[Teraswaerto]

Baalz,
Could you elaborate on why you mentioned me? I am genuinely surprised and a bit confused.

[Velusion]

Baalz said:
So, seeing the nations and players, anybody care to take a guess at who the front runners are going to be?

Here's my top three to watch:

LA Marignon - Catquiet
LA Ermor - Velusion
EA Caelum - Terawaerto (%5)



I vote for Baalz dominating the game with LA Mictlan.

[Foodstamp]

I had compiled a fairly large list of contenders. But I began to realize that there is one player that stands heads and shoulders above the rest. He is the epitome of excellence and the deliverer of swift justice.

So I deleted my long list because I felt it was pointless because no player can hold a candle to:


EA Agartha - Foodstamp (%10)

[Baalz]

Oh, I just looked for people I've seen play good games who got nations I consider strong in a game like this. EA Caelum was one of my alternate picks, and you seem to handle yourself fairly well. A 5% head start won't hurt either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ironhawk]

Gandalf Parker said:
LA Atlantis ..... FrankTrollman




I thought Frank quit dominions?

[Foodstamp]

I think Frank came back and posted a bit under VadalkenBear? Just guessing, they had very similar posting styles and demeanors and left in a similar fashion.

[Saint_Dude]

I actually think that LA Mictlan is very well suited for this game. Which is why I picked them as my first choice even though I am not extremely proficient with blood magic. Since I lost the die roll to a player that is extremely proficient with blood magic, I am confident that they will do well.

[Velusion]

Saint_Dude said:
I actually think that LA Mictlan is very well suited for this game. Which is why I picked them as my first choice even though I am not extremely proficient with blood magic. Since I lost the die roll to a player that is extremely proficient with blood magic, I am confident that they will do well.



So it's agreed that we should start an anti-baalz coalition now - before it is too late?

[Teraswaerto]

Wouldn't hurt.

[Salamander8]

I had turned in a very long list of nations for this game(20 in fact), so was pleasantly surprised when I got my number 1 pick. No idea how well I'm going to do, between this being my 2nd ever MP game and I'm still playing my first 1 as EA Yomi right now, but it looks to be a good game regardless. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Baalz]

Heh, I have yet to win a single MP game, and this will be my first MP game with LA Mictlan so I wouldn't hold my breath on my domination. Hopefully my theory that they play the same as EA plus amphibious units will hold true.

So why don't y'all go pick on Helheim? Aren't they the usual target for a dogpile?

[Cor]

No way, you better watch out for Cor with MA Ulm. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Velusion,I am Having trouble with your server (uploading pretender), help?

[Gandalf Parker]

Ironhawk said:

Gandalf Parker said:
LA Atlantis ..... FrankTrollman



I thought Frank quit dominions?



In my last few emails with FT I got that he didnt quit dominions. He just quit this forum.

[davegg]

Can you give us the server details for where we upload our pretender?

[Jazzepi]

Baalz said:
Heh, I have yet to win a single MP game, and this will be my first MP game with LA Mictlan so I wouldn't hold my breath on my domination. Hopefully my theory that they play the same as EA plus amphibious units will hold true.

So why don't y'all go pick on Helheim? Aren't they the usual target for a dogpile?



Leave me alone!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif,
Jazzepi

[Teraswaerto]

LA and EA Mictlan are quite similar. Blood is power, so fear any blood nation, that's my advice.

[Velusion]

davegg said:


Can you give us the server details for where we upload our pretender?



I sent out an email with the info. I also posted the info here in a post ... flip back through my posts from last night.

[Velusion]

Cor said:
Velusion,I am Having trouble with your server (uploading pretender), help?



What error are you getting?

Edit: nevermind - I got your email.

[Shovah32]

Blood is extremely powerful and that power scales with the size of the empire by a large ammount. Should any of the blood nations(probably EA or LA Mictlan) get a very large empire they will have a force to match. I personally am VERY happy there is no lanka due to their extremely powerful non-unique summonable SCs.

[Velusion]

Shovah32 said:
Blood is extremely powerful and that power scales with the size of the empire by a large ammount. Should any of the blood nations(probably EA or LA Mictlan) get a very large empire they will have a force to match. I personally am VERY happy there is no lanka due to their extremely powerful non-unique summonable SCs.



Oh there is a lanka...

[DrPraetorious]

Yes, Lanks is in play, and IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!
Ah ha ha ha ha!
Kidding (actually I haven't looked.)

My list of nations/players to watch:
MA Man -- ME!

Grab your ankles. All your bases are belong to us! Resistance is useless! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

I had to nudge a couple of start locations over a few times, but I finally managed to fit 62 start locations with at least three provinces between each pair. The table of pairwise distances between starts is attached.

I sent in my pretender BEFORE I did this - should I post the final start assignments before other people are done uploading pretenders? I suppose there is a possibility people will change their pretender designs on the basis of who their neighbors are.

[Cor]

I am an Idiot. Thanks for your help Velusion. this is my first server game.

Pretender uploaded.

[BigDisAwesome]

Yeah, it'd be better to wait until everyone is done uploading.

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
Yes, Lanks is in play, and IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO YOU!
Ah ha ha ha ha!
Kidding (actually I haven't looked.)

My list of nations/players to watch:
MA Man -- ME!

Grab your ankles. All your bases are belong to us! Resistance is useless! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

I had to nudge a couple of start locations over a few times, but I finally managed to fit 62 start locations with at least three provinces between each pair. The table of pairwise distances between starts is attached.

I sent in my pretender BEFORE I did this - should I post the final start assignments before other people are done uploading pretenders? I suppose there is a possibility people will change their pretender designs on the basis of who their neighbors are.



I wouldn't post them at all. If people want to raid the .map file to figure out who their neighbors are they can - I probably won't.

edit: Do players even download the .map file anymore? If not even better - you can keep the starting locations a secret to your grave (or game end - whichever is sooner).

[DrPraetorious]

Players will not need to download the .map file, the image is all they need.

However, unavoidably, *I* have seen it. I'll try not to remember the province numbers but there was some stuff I had to doublecheck by hand (as well as making sure that it worked.) I know where Lanka, Tir and Eiru start because I was doublechecking I had their nation numbers right.

[FAJ]

Where do we get the mod. Do we need it to enabled while making our god?

[Shovah32]

Damn, didnt notice lanka as i only scanned the top of the list(where other EA nations were listed). I just hope they dont grow too large(although the darkness their best summons bring wont hurt me too much atleast).

[Velusion]

FAJ said:
Where do we get the mod. Do we need it to enabled while making our god?



That will be revealed tonight. You do not need it to to create/upload your pretender.

[Velusion]

DrPraetorious said:
Players will not need to download the .map file, the image is all they need.

However, unavoidably, *I* have seen it. I'll try not to remember the province numbers but there was some stuff I had to doublecheck by hand (as well as making sure that it worked.) I know where Lanka, Tir and Eiru start because I was doublechecking I had their nation numbers right.



You probably aren't going to be a bless rush nation (man) so it doesn't concern me too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif.

[FAJ]

Coincidence that all 3 Atlantis players were in the last seed, with 20% increase?

[Meglobob]

Yippee...got my first pick and I got a vote of confidence from Gandalf...double yippee.

Just picked Tir Na N'og for fun thou...arn't got a clue how to win with them! Also I always lose to the following players, who are the ones to watch out for, in no particular order:-

EA Oceania - Amazhair.
MA Oceania - Tyrant.
LA Ermor - Velusion.
LA Mictlan - Baalz.
LA Atlantis - Frank Trollmen.

So if you see any of them gang up on them and kill them, if you know whats good for you!http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif I also hope they start on the other side of the world from me as next door neighbours! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

But seriously...I have yet to meet a bad Dominions player. Dominions only seems to attract the best.

Good luck everyone and thanks to Velusion/Dr Praetorious for there hard work putting this game together.

[DrPraetorious]

It just means that either no-one picked Atlantis (as I suspect is the case with EA Ulm, EA R'lyeh, MA Ulm and MA Agartha) or that those who did got picks in earlier rounds. Also, it was a telepathic plot by Frank, who wanted that maximum pop bonus.

Personally, I'm rooting for vfb, who picked Marverni. I hope he turns out to be some kind of killer genius.

The positions that I'm surprised made it into the last round:
EA Yomi - boring, but certainly not a weak position.
EA Atlantis - NOT THE FACE! I'm just glad I'm not coastal (yes, I peaked at my own start location.)
MA Caelum - Mammoths + 20% pop bonus in her capital? My advice to his neighbors: don't believe his lies, kill him.
LA Abyssia - On a map like this blood positions are very strong.
LA Midgard - Likewise. Also a strong sacred rusher, actually.
LA Atlantis - Have I mentioned that Frank is actually very good with this position? Like, better than he is with other positions?

[jutetrea]

You guys are scaring the newbies (me). Personal goal, survive till turn 40.

[Meglobob]

Shame Gandalf, Jurri and Quantum are not playing.

Or perhaps they are...

[atul]

DrPraetorious said: (as I suspect is the case with EA Ulm, EA R'lyeh, MA Ulm and MA Agartha)


Did just a forum search, looking for any tidbits on playing my nation, and... can I get an extra starting gold piece for each post by DrP implying MA Agartha sucks? Consider it a motivational pat on the head for the soon to be extinct race. :p

At least I might get lucky and get ignored in the initial fray. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

...uh, should be reading for the investment theory exam that's due in 10 hours, but... Dominions series, some things were not meant to be experienced by mere men.

[Shovah32]

Meglobob said:
Shame Gandalf, Jurri and Quantum are not playing.

Or perhaps they are...



You think its a pitty QM isnt playing? :p

[Velusion]

My biggest surprises:

EvilHomer got R'lyeh with no one contesting him.
MA Vanheim wasn't anyone's inital pick.
So many people went for Sauromtia (are they that good?)

[Jazzepi]

I must admit my absolute greed for gold early, mid, and late game. And the nation I got randomly picked for will play well into what I want to do.

Jazzepi

[atul]

Velusion said:
So many people went for Sauromtia (are they that good?)


On the one hand I'm sorry I didn't get my pick, on the other I'm happy the man-flaying amazons get some of the love they deserve but have been lacking in the forums.

Poison composite bows, decent cavalry, magic paths facilitating summoning troops you can use with hydras (unlike other hydra nations). Ability to handle death scale (ND young mages), misfortune (bad event avoiding units), not overly resource-intensive.

And they eat their opponents. Or flay them.

My 0.02€.

[Teraswaerto]

Shovah32 said:

Meglobob said:
Shame Gandalf, Jurri and Quantum are not playing.

Or perhaps they are...



You think its a pitty QM isnt playing? :p



He was snuffed in Manaburn. Isn't Abysia supposed to be weak?

Yes, yes, I know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

[RamsHead]

My goal is to simply not be the first one knocked out.
*crosses fingers*

[Gandalf Parker]

Id have shot for ea pangaea, ma pangaea, ea ulm, basically any nation that has lots of stealth since this is a good game for using those tactics.

But I think people need to hold off on the notion of weak nation and power nation. Those concepts tend to be particular to the game setup such as small maps and few players. This game is new territory. Altho I was surprised that some people didnt jump in to prove some of their favorite claims about imbalances in the game.

[Morkilus]

Wow, I got a nation I've never played before (randomly). This should be educational. Or not, who knows.

[quantum_mechani]

Teraswaerto said:

Shovah32 said:

Meglobob said:
Shame Gandalf, Jurri and Quantum are not playing.

Or perhaps they are...



You think its a pitty QM isnt playing? :p



He was snuffed in Manaburn. Isn't Abysia supposed to be weak?

Yes, yes, I know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif


That's basicly the ultimate compliment, when people brag about winning a game against you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I (and I'm guessing Jurri too) avoided this game both because it's bound to be a total micromangement nightmare for people who really like to optimize, and because the unit limit is likely to mess it up.

[Teraswaerto]

QM, I meant it as a compliment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Salamander8]

Uploaded my pretender just now. It was fairly straight forward, but if I did make a mistake scream at me and I'll fix it.

As a newbie myself, I fully expect to die, but have fun doing so.


EA Yomi - boring, but certainly not a weak position.


I'm a big Yomi fan myself, it was my 2nd choice in fact, so this was surprising to me as well. Gotta love fire-breathing, poison-puking demons as standard troops!

[Evilhomer]

This will be a game of insanity....

[Velusion]

Updated the main post with all the current info/instructions/status.

[davegg]

Sorry to bug you velusion, but i connected to the game and it said that I claimed my nation ... but i didnt see anywhere to upload a pretender. I even looked it up in the manual! lol If you get a chance, can you check this out? thx

[vfb]

If you only have one pretender for your nation, it uploads it automagically without mentioning anything to you. It's only when you have a choice of pretenders that it bothers to ask you.

[Velusion]

davegg said:
Sorry to bug you velusion, but i connected to the game and it said that I claimed my nation ... but i didnt see anywhere to upload a pretender. I even looked it up in the manual! lol If you get a chance, can you check this out? thx



vfb has the right of it. Provided you claimed the nation it must have uploaded the only one you needed. IF you want to be sure you can create another dummy pretender and attempt to connect - at that point it should ask you which you want.

[FAJ]

Evilhomer said:
This will be a game of insanity....



Understatement of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


What will be the timeframe for this game? When will it start, how long for the turns, when will timelimit increase, any house rules, how long untill I am on my knees begging for mercy?

[Velusion]

FAJ said:

Evilhomer said:
This will be a game of insanity....



Understatement of the thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


What will be the timeframe for this game? When will it start, how long for the turns, when will timelimit increase, any house rules, how long untill I am on my knees begging for mercy?



Can't answer that last one... but all the rest are detailed on the first post in this thread.

[Tyrant]

I greatly enjoyed the nation draft procedure, it was fertile ground for enjoyable speculation.I had so much trouble trying to predict which nations would be popular that i was pretty much gaurenteed to be surprised, and indeed i was.

With every rush power in play and slow research handicapping the caster nations I figured the early game was so scary that there were only three ways to go- uberbless, SC pretender, or hide under the sea. I went for the third and decided after much thought to take my first pick first, despite a suspicion that it wouldn't go in the first. Looks pretty clear that few others were thinking aquatic.

My list of surprises-

All three versions of Atlantis fourth, what the heck are y'all smokin'? This boggles me so much i can't even offer speculation.

MA Mictlan last round. A top rush power so late shocks me. I guess the Mictlan fans went for the blood eras and blood fans skipped this one. Uskglass scored IMO.

MA Caelum 4th round. On the one hand a slow research game is not the game to play this most mage dependent of all nations, but last round for what i consider one of the very most powerfull nations?.... yeesh (EA Caelum not first round also surprising)

EA Ryleh last round. Insufficiently amphibious and/or why play R'yleh without the gate i suppose, but I figured them for a sure thing first rounder.

Midgard last round, though I kinda thought they might not be round one.

Patala- I wouldn't touch these guys with a ten foot pole, but the formidable KissBlade claims they are the top late game power and i figured they would be popular with the overly confident. Guess not.

.


Velusion said:
My biggest surprises:

EvilHomer got R'lyeh with no one contesting him.
MA Vanheim wasn't anyone's inital pick.
So many people went for Sauromtia (are they that good?)



I think we all just accepted that EvilHomer would be R'lyeh no matter what and decided not the waste the pick. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Go ahead and admit now that you are Spawn of Hastor EH.

Sauromatia has a nice army for the early, decent PD and a big toolbox for the mid, and blood and astral for the end, so i can see why they were sought after- an end game potential with a good chance of making it that far.

Such a whacky game and so many players i don't know that I don't really have much opinion on who to watch out for. Many from my list of top players are not in this game, and most of the ones who are well known and not likely to sneak up on anyone. TDNP may be trying to look inconspicuous by playing Man, but i spotted the pointy hat.
Personally, anyone playing a blood nation's gunna get the pointy end of the trident if they come near me.

Here are my two oracular pronouncments-

1) Catquiet will be there at the end if he chooses to be. I say this with confidence based on observation-I've
been in many many games with him, and he has finished every single one with a stong position (though i'm working on ending this streak right now).

2) The end game will take place under the long term influence of Arcane Coruption.

Thanks to Velusian for setting this up and hosting! Good luck to all, this will be fun!