Dominions 3: Speculation Wars

[Ironhawk]

B0rsuk said:
Then we start another game, because by the time we see each other again we tend to forget what was the game about. And where all the scouts are (*B0rsuk looks at Kristoffer/JK in a threatening manner*).

Borsuk brings up a good point in a tangential manner. I know this thread is about the themes upcoming in dom3. But I *hope and pray* that there have been some UI advancements! Being able to find scouts would be a treat. As would finding equipped magic items on commanders. The list goes on.

Kristoffer: Thanks, you've been very helpful ! Your insights are very inspiring.

Yeah, really Kristoffer. Stop playing the Sphinx.

[Vicious Love]

B0rsuk said:
Pythium - marsh people before Ermor came> regular Pythium > ?

You got it all wrong. Pythium are the Byzantines. They split from Ermor while Ermor collapsed under its own undead weight. Then chose to go off and live in a swamp, apparently. Go figure. If Serpent Cult is still around in Dom 3, I imagine it comes after base Pythium.
If Ermor's first age is before the 'splosion(Malediction? Cataclysm? That nasty thing that happened), first age Pythium would have to be part of the empire, if only in name. 'course, pre-nastyness Ermor also predates Marignon and Ulm, so the timeline would still need some work. I imagine the earliest available Ermor will still be the Broken Empire.

furthermore, Kuritza_Dru said:
Pythium with C'Tis (sauromancers helping the Theurgs) > Serpent cult / Pythium. Dunno in which order. Perhaps second era is about 'sauromancers are gone, but there are still some serpent temples around', and the third one is a 'pure' Pythium.

I thought Pythium split from Ermor precisely because of the sauromancers, and all those signs and portents they entailed?

Desert tombs > C'Tis > Miasma, with Tombs not as a 'return of the ancient Kings' theme, but as an 'Ancient nation obsessed with Life after Death' thingy. More Egypt please.

That does solve the problem of Miasma and Desert Tombs being somewhat exclusive, but it raises the question of just where the undead half of Desert Tombs C'tis went between eras.

Golden Era - Alexandria - Arcoscephale.
We have seen Arco as an old (tired) Empire and we've seen that land in its time of legends. Now its time to play a Hellinistic Empire at its prime.

Sounds good, though there might not be that much of a difference between mid- and late-era Arcoscephale in terms of actual units and commanders.

Diabolical Faith / Marignon / Conquerors.
When the first waves of the Undead overwhelmed the outer defenses, great fear arose. While the most devout priests were sacrificing their live at the front lines, others were... sacrificing others lives to get help from an even more sinister source. Heresy took some time to weed off, but eventually the Inquisition was founded and succeeded in both dealing with both keeping the Death at bay and weeding out the blasphemy.

Also good, but raises the question of why CotS would be synchronous with Ashen Empire or Soul Gate. There's also something to be said for Marignon resorting to diablerie only after exhausting their alternatives. I'd imagine they found it almost as abhorrent as the cult of death, back when they could afford to be picky.

First of the Tuatha > Man > Last of the Tuatha.

But... base Man hasn't got any Tuatha. It's already after LotT.

Regular Pangaea > "Iron" Pangaea > Carrion Woods ?

Carrion Woods and New Era are mutually exclusive. One will have to be reworked to fit them into the same timeline.

Raptors > Caelum > ?

Return of the Raptors necessarily follows base Caelum. Pre-banishment Caelum was presumably nothing like RotR, as it had most of what base Caelum has, and the harab seraphs. Now THAT'S overpowered.

[Kristoffer O]

> Now THAT'S overpowered.

One might think so

[Endoperez]

Hmm, Kristoffer mentioned that some themes have been merged, and also that early, middle and late versions of Caelum are quite close to each other... And much earlier, in one of the dev diaries, "Caelum now has it's three themes almost finished. Now I like the raptor theme, not just the idea."

So, does this mean that Caelum has wider range of magic (some Raptors) in all of its themes? Or have the Raptors become closer to the other Caelumians?

[Sandman]

You could have 'Age of the Tuatha' before Last of the Tuatha. Tuatha units would be recruitable everywhere - but no longbowmen, bards or monks.

[Nerfix]

BTW, I think that it was mentioned in a dev diary that the late era is an "unit era" so I guess that many of the nations have stronger units, steelier plate armors and less potent mages.

[Chazar]

Apart from technical issues like user interface improvements or new server options, or to-be-expected stuff like new unit types & new spells, or the three flavour-variants of the game in the form of the eras, what will be the most significant change to gameplay itself?

• Perhaps a renaissance of the terrain changing dominion like in Dom1, somehow superimposed on the new graphical maps?
• Maybe the introduction of terrain features and obstacles to the tactical map?
• The splitting of tactical combat in phases of 24 rounds, each representing a single day (hence round = 15min) and the possibilty of battles stretching into several days, with part fatigue recovery in between days and the reformation of non-routed troops for consecutive days via a special tactical setup (initial placement, secondary placement) and the restriction of some battlefield spells like storm, army of lead, etc. to last only a limited number of days as well of the delayed arrival of troops on the second day or third day depending on the number of provinces and speed the units moved? (i.e. Arco attack a province of Caelum. On the first day, Arco battles the PD and the wingless who moved in from an adjacent province, while the high seraphs flying in from the distant captial wont appear on the battlefield until the third day has dawned...

Just some thoughts, so what else would we not expect for Dom3?

[Kuritza_Dru]

Speaking of the Man-Tuatha.
Chronologically 'Last of the Tuatha' theme comes *after* the regular Man, AFAIK. You can safely call it 'Return of the Tuatha'. So what I had in mind, is the 'Golden age of the Tuatha' theme, that is, NO humans and lots of magic, then humans only and still a decent magic, then 'last of the Tuatha' - great mix of units, and somewhat worse magic (because these Tuatha, the only ones with a random pick, are some damn expensive)

[B0rsuk]

New nations: So far, only one new nation is specified, althrough squirrels claim we'll get several new nations total.

I like arms. Most Indian gods have several. Thus I like Indian gods. This month I have delved into Srimad Bhagavata Mahapurana, some other books, and Online resources to find more about Indian spirits and supernatural beings. Bandar Log, a new Indian inspired nation will have themes with additional mythological content and unique summons. Celestial apsaras and gandharvas as well as malign rakshasas and daityas will be available for the Bandar player.

So, we are getting at least Indian nation.

Furthermore, to my post suggesting Arabic and Slavic-like nations (wishlist thread) Kristoffer replied (more less)
- there will be no slavic nation, because he didn't research the area well enough. It could come in a mod. (doh)
- to "arabic" suggestion, he repplied with silence. This makes it perfect speculation that we are going to get arabic -like nation, too.
---------
Shameless self-promotion: Motivated by Kristoffer's repply, B0rsuk has begun researching slavic culture a while ago. Stuff from before christianity. Funny fact: Polish people were christianised (by force) starting with 996 (after Christ). Poland is often regarded as one of bastions of christianity.
In XVIII century, Church wanted to examine the situation. They sent people to several remote villages in the woods. Result: villagers never heard of Jesus and Maria !
This is because nobles and peasantry actually lived in separate worlds. Feudal system survived much longer in Poland than in rest of Europe. Even today, if you adress an adult without "Pan/Pani" prefix, you're perceived as being overly familiar. Remains of feudal system, no less.

Blah blah blah... This means B0rsuk is going to mod a slavic-inspired nation to Dominions3. Not to Dominions2, because B0rsuk owns only a demo. B0rsuk believes he'll be able to buy Dominions3.
For people with clue<=0: records on pagan Slavs are in bad shape. Church tried to do it's best to erase all trace. But here's short summary of what I found:

-tribal structure similar to democracy or even anarchy. MOst importand decisions were made by elders. Words describing rulers come from other languages. Priests were respected, but didn't have excessive power.
-many worshipped gods, most important of which was probably Perun, god of fire, sun, thunder, and warriors. There are other fire gods, too. For this reason sunday is a holy day. It's still a holy day because Church had tendency to overwrite pagan holy days. Sources say all slavs worshipped sun and fire. (fire magic)
Affinity for nature, it was also very important for ancient Slavs. Wise women possessed good knowledge of herbs and healing (...) (nature magic)
Deep belief in fate, curses, charms, "evil eye", fate...One of major gods - Weles/Wolos dealt with oaths, mysticism, spells... Don't get on a bad side of a witch, or she'll curse you. (a bit of Astral magic)
- worship of warlike gods - they weren't exactly most peaceful of nations.
- national heroes will include Baba Yaga for sure, possibly Likho, too.
- lots, lots of spirits and demons - ones associated with homestad, wilderness...

PM me if you'd like to help or can provide some info about pagan Slavs.

[Edi]

Regarding Ulm, I do not see any need for a separate branching timeline.

Base Ulm is obviously the first one. I have always seen the Iron Faith theme as a short-lived corrupt transition stage between standard Ulm and Black Forest.

Even the descriptions lend some support for this. In base Ulm, magic is solely in the hands of the master smiths and the nations trusts its brawn and military might to stand off its enemies.

In the Iron Faith theme, the control of magic has passed from the master smiths to the priest orders who are fanatic zealots with little grasp of how magic works and whether it is safe. They have little magical training and compensate with religious dogma and persecution to rival the Marignon inquisition.

Black Forest is the logical outcome of this setup. With the Iron Faith priesthood infiltrated from within and corrupted, civil war flares out when there is an attempt to return to the more traditional ways of the standard era Ulm. This allows the agents of the corrupting power (Ermor or whoever else) to do their malign work unnoticed and their scheme culminates in the destruction of the Keep of Ulm, the death of the god of Ulm and teh corruption of the land when they unleash the Malediction.

It makes for a relatively seamless story that has no alternate timelines.

What I'd like to know is what the devs think of this little interpretation and how close it is to what they envisioned.

Edi