Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

[tinkthank]

Cherry, I think your idea is noble, but am not sure it would be "worth it" in terms of the hours and hours you will need for testing, because "very difficult research" and a few spell mods will accomplish a similar effect. Balance mods such as this are extremely complex (doh!), since you will have to contextualize the increase of price for individual nations in comparison with the strengths and roles the mages play between the nations.

That being said: looks nice!
I would prefer fewer changes to a few mages. I particularly welcome a small price increase in the Caelan mage.
I think a thematically sensible change (which I have tested and liked) is to make the New Era Pan 2E2N1? (that is, in the New Age, the Pan's Nature skills have decreased due to their increased love of steel), but they keep a random.

Good luck!

[Scott Hebert]

Endoperez found my original work on over/undercosted mages,Cherry. I'll forward you the relevant information.

Regarding 'overcosted mages', I think the problem is more that the 'good mages' (those that people think are costed appropriately) are in fact under-costed by quite a degree, and the rest are more or less evenly priced.

If mages were not summonable, I think that would help.

We'll see.

[The_Tauren13]

Scott Hebert said:
If mages were not summonable, I think that would help.

Wouldnt that annihilate some themes like Ulm and Carrion Woods beyond all repair?

[Saber Cherry]

The_Tauren13 said:

Wouldnt that annihilate some themes like Ulm and Carrion Woods beyond all repair?

Yes. Alternately, living summonable mages could cost upkeep. When it makes sense, of course - nobody is going to expect a GoR'd Vastness to want (or be able to use) money, and neither will a fallen angel demand compensation upon being freed from eternal suffering.

Maybe some summonables should have disadvantages? I wouldn't want to live in a town being patrolled by Anthrax, the King of Banefires... and I would avoid the public library if he was hanging out there doing research in level-8 death evocations. Being forced to keep these guys on the move (and some of more vile blood and death summonable mages) because you don't want them polluting your territory (like with Demon Lords) might be interesting.

Also, it would be neat if some creatures like Hama Dryads, Fairy Queens, and Arch Angels attracted people to provinces, opposite to the way Harvesters of Sorrows repel / kill them, providing incentive to keep certain mages at home rather than in battle. If I, a lowly peasant, had my family killed by the Lord of Plague Wind that my God was keeping in my hometown for his own inscrutable reasons... and I heard that the province next door had a fairy queen curing blindess and disease... I'd probably move.


But that's all out of the scope of this mod. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions above. It's starting to seem that Dominions II is complex enough that you have to balance some units more by "feel" than by equations, so post your thoughts on other mages that feel too expensive, too cheap, or too useless.

And please try not to attack other people, no matter how poorly-thought-out or poorly-phrased their post might be. Discussion and disagreements are fine, but people tend to avoid posting their thoughts in threads where criticism is too sharp.

[Scott Hebert]

Well, national summonable mages shouldn't go away.

It's just that certain summonable mages, at the very least, are very undercosted, if they should be allowed at all. Spectres and Lamia Queens spring immediately to mind.

Any non-national mage that can summon itself is also immediately suspect.