Will Vanheim Ever Become Spayed?

[HoneyBadger]

I agree about counters to glamour, but I'd hate to see the "anti-Helheim" spell. I hope people will come up with enough partial solutions that they'll add up to one whole solution, rather than shoe-horning a deus ex machina.

[Edi]

HoneyBadger, your base assumptions about what makes for an objective laboratory environment for testing Dom3 balance seem very strange. Your assertion that single player games provide for an accurate lab environment is, to me, nothing but a baseless claim with no evidence to back it up other than your say-so.

It is my contention that the multiplayer games provide a far more accurate environment because in that environment ALL the strengths of a nation can be utilized to their full effect. It has been, since the beginning of the thread, pointed out by very experienced players that Vanheim and Helheim are not only powerful but that the power balance with them vs other nations is ridiculously lopsided. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.

It just so happens that in MP, without mass alliances, you need to do everyything exactly right AND the heim player must also go along and work to YOUR script if you are to defeat him, while he has much more options. All this talk about defeating AI vanheim/Helheim means precisely nothing due to handicaps of the AI. It's much like a highly trained athlete crowing about being able to beat a person bound to a wheelchair on the 100 meter dash.

[Foodstamp]

It just so happens that in MP, without mass alliances, you need to do everything exactly right AND the heim player must also go along and work to YOUR script if you are to defeat him, while he has much more options.

QFT

[vfb]

I think one solution might be to use the CB mod when playing MP. I'm not sure, because I haven't tried CB in MP yet, but this is why I think it should solve the heim problem:

Those who play MP based from the shrapnel forums can get help loading the CB mod (not that it's difficult). SP players (who might not even visit here) might need variety in the strengths of the AI nations, so that once you kill the 2 or 3 AIs on your doorstep, you aren't faced with either a wasteland or a bunch of 15-province fortified AI nations ready to be invaded by a now 45-province human. Considering the nationality of the developers, and the nature of IW as an independent studio, it is not surprising that they chose to make the heims powerful. Without hiems to fight in SP, at the end you would be faced with the drudgery of wading through 500 bare chested warriors etc.

And if the CB 1.00 mod doesn't work because EA Helheim still, in one turn, flies into each province of a nation with 6 or 8 W9F9s and rapes all your horses and rides off on your women, then all we need to do is make CB 1.01 where we adjust the costs so it takes 3 turns to build a Dis and 2 turns to build a single Valk. Resources and gold. And if Helheim still pwns the world, then mod the defense of heim units down too.

Of course, this does not mean anyone is forced to do this (use CB in MP). Do what's fun for you (I think that's why some experienced players still join MP games as heim, when it's an option). Next game I host will be CB, though.