Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!

[Wrana]

'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir. All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.

Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?
As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure!

To Zeldor:
There was no problem with it existing before - just with it not existing later !

[Gregstrom]

I have to admit that the first time I saw the Simargl in Dom3 I thought of the Simurgh, which is a Persian-area mythical dog-bird.

[Kuritza]

Wrana said:
Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?

Thats because bylinas are centered aroud several heroes who lived at about the same time Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitych and Alesha Popovitch, mostly. But druzhinas arent necessarily assotiated with that particular Knyaz, or any bogatyr at all.
Bogarus gave me impression of being mostly inspired by 12-14th century Russia (with some splash of Christianity, and sects from later time, as K. alredy confessed) , so Druzhina cavalry is absolutely not an anachronysm in it.
By the way. Knyaz "Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko" from these Bylinas is actually Vladimir I, around 960-1050, who baptized Russia. So everything makes lots of sense, to think of it.

As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure!

Not much is known about Russian paganism, thats true. Christian clergy did its best to wipe all traces of pagan traditions, and they succeeded. But from what I've read, Simargl could indeed be borrowed from Iran in the ancient times.
Well, as I see it - Rudra was initially a God in India, and later there were many Rudras as his companions. Or, for example, the Beregini. Initially it was a name of one specific Goddess; there was just one Bereginya. Later slavs believed that there are many other Bereginyas as well, protective spirits of the shore. Here's one, by the way - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%...D%D1%8F_01.jpg

So why not having winged dogs named after Simargl, his minions or something - seems quite logical to me.

P.S.

And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

[Kristoffer O]

> And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

They established a trading post with the more fully nature oriented finno-ugric nation that was there in the EA, and eventually became the masters of the land. The vanir were never numerous and soon they disappeared altogether, the eventual Bogatyr being the only reminiscent of their glorious (?) past.

[Kuritza]

Ah. I thought its about Rurik and the Norman theory.
I mean, Rurik's descendants were perceived as Russian princes in every sense of the word, so I thought that vanir wouldnt be treated as some outlandish conquerors as well.

[Kristoffer O]

Trade/conquest. Goes hand in hand in most cases. It is probably a bit Rurikish, but I'm not yet clear on the legacy of the finno-ugric remnants of the population and their role.

[Edi]

Remnant is probably the word you're looking for, Kristoffer.

Vanarus seems to me to be as KO said, a nation ruled by Vanir who came and conquered the lands of the Rus or assumed leadership through trade influence. It's what I first thought when I heard the name way back when. That would be a very close historical parallel to the Vikings who sailed east along the rivers and established fairly significant outposts in Russia in the first millennium, around 800-1000 AD.

So EA (or MA, depending) Vanarus would be something like an amalgamation of Vanir, the Rus and Finland circa 1000. When you look at the Vyedun and Vyedma units that are already included (but currently not used) in the game, they are very much like a mage or shaman in the Finnish tradition would be. Finland has historically been a battleground between Sweden and Russia and there has been very much a mixing of influences from both directions here, just that we speak a language which made it very, very difficult to annihilate our pagan beliefs (it did eventually happen, but there is a lot of data available because it disappeared so late).

[Kuritza]

Vyedun and Vyedma are both 100% Russian words. Maybe Finnish too, I dont know. For Vyedun, literally 'Knower', I cant think of an exact analogue, its somethink like 'one who's got arcane knowledge', and Vyedma is 'Witch'. Well, maybe not exactly the type of witch Marignon hunters are looking for, but its an exact translation. Baba Yaga is an archetypical 'Vyedma'.

'Rus led by Vanir' was my first thought when I've read this word on this forum too, of course. Vikings, also called 'varyags' in Russia (supposedly derieved from norse vaeringjar), were indeed a major part of life in Rus as traders, druzhina warriors or boyars (nobility). Surely, Vanir would have an even greater influence.

---

By the way - do Firebirds bring good luck indeed, or is it just a superstition? I mean, is it worth summoning a few in my cities just to fend of misfortune, or not?

[Endoperez]

Kuritza said:
Vyedun and Vyedma are both 100% Russian words. Maybe Finnish too, I dont know. For Vyedun, literally 'Knower', I cant think of an exact analogue, its somethink like 'one who's got arcane knowledge', and Vyedma is 'Witch'.

Vydeun isn't a Finnish word, but interestingly enough, there's a Finnish word 'tietäjä' that literally translates as "knower", that was used for shamans and witch-doctors and perhaps wise people in general. So it could be that the two words were formed the same way in both languages, or perhaps one is directly translated from the other.

EDIT: Firebirds do have a very small chance of creating a good event.

[Kuritza]

'Remnants of finno-ugric population'?
Afaik, varyags didnt commit no genocide, and slavic population wasnt finno-ugric, although these were present as well. ))
...
Having browsed some sources - yes, it should be classified as conquest. Though Rurik was invited by Novgorod to become a Knyaz/Prince, his son Oleg waged a military campaign, unifying the eastern slavs under his rule.
Its just that nobody now perceives him as an outlander; historians refer to him as of a great Russian prince.