Grossly, insanely different PD strengths

[HJFudge]

Morkilus wins the thread.

[Chris_Byler]

Look, if Lord_Bob (or anyone else for that matter) wants to make a PD Rebalance mod, and claim that it improves overall game balance, then we'd have something concrete to discuss; and if the player community agreed that more equal PD strengths improved the game overall, it'd stand a decent chance of being incorporated into CB or even a future patch.

But as long as there is nothing but complaint with no attempt to fix the situation (for a moddable problem), there's really not much to discuss.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Morkilus , I think that your monkey PD is overly powerfull. It looks like it has a high awe ability, and no one will be able to strike it.

[Lord_Bob]

There isn't much point in making a mod, if people won't use it.

Let's see if I can explain this to you, Chris.

A.I find a problem and tell people.
B.They agree it's a problem that needs a solution.
C.I THEN spend the large amount of time to make a mod.
D.Since there is agreement about the problem, people then use the mod I made. So I have not wasted my time.

Following, Chris?

Have you spent large amounts of time on projects that nobody uses, Chris? Judging from your attitude, I have to believe that's the case, Chris.

[Edi]

Lord_Bob said:
There isn't much point in making a mod, if people won't use it.

Let's see if I can explain this to you, Chris.

A.I find a problem and tell people.
B.They agree it's a problem that needs a solution.
C.I THEN spend the large amount of time to make a mod.
D.Since there is agreement about the problem, people then use the mod I made. So I have not wasted my time.

Following, Chris?

Have you spent large amounts of time on projects that nobody uses, Chris? Judging from your attitude, I have to believe that's the case, Chris.

You can cut the condescending tone right now. Since judging by the tone of the replies I got you apparently cannot understand a clear, plain text warning sent by PM, I will now warn you in public that you will either stop trolling or you will be reap the consequences. That's two warnings now, just so it's clear to everyone.

I've also been given to understand by another mod that you feel like you are being persecuted and that we are out to get you so that you can be "deleted". I was also given to understand that you had indicated a willingness to try to force things to that point. If that's indeed your tack here, it is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, since this community has absolutely no use at all for people who troll and disrupt the forums on purpose. We do NOT want to ban people, but we will if we have to, though that is always an administrative decision, not one made by mere moderators.

This topic is looking more and more like it's going to be just people beating on a dead horse, and if it does come to that, it's going to be locked. I'm not going to shut this thread down yet, though. I hope the discussion will go forward in a more productive vein.

[Lord_Bob]

I've also been given to understand by another mod that you feel like you are being persecuted and that we are out to get you so that you can be "deleted". I was also given to understand that you had indicated a willingness to try to force things to that point. If that's indeed your tack here, it is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy, since this community has absolutely no use at all for people who troll and disrupt the forums on purpose. We do NOT want to ban people, but we will if we have to, though that is always an administrative decision, not one made by mere moderators.

Since you have access to what I wrote, why don't you quote it? I give you full permission. I think that would make my "persecution complex" quite clear to everyone. So go ahead.

Specifically, the fact that Jazzepi thought it was okay to tell me to "Die in a river" for no reason at all. He knew you would be okay with this, because, you are, aren't you?

Oh, and Chris_Byler was being deliberately rude to. You just have 100% tolerance for certain people who get to run around and get in everyone elses face. That's the way most message boards are run, so I don't expect any better from you.

[llamabeast]

Chris_Byler wasn't being deliberately rude. It's just that we've all heard what you think many times, and think that there are two options from there:

1) Do nothing, since only a small fraction of the community agrees with you.
2) Make a mod that you, and those that agree with you, can use. It actually would not take very long - maybe half an hour. Certainly less time than all this posting has taken.

Further posting on the subject will not change anyone's opinions. We have all read your opinions, initially with interest, and then later with growing frustration as it became apparent that you were not taking other people's opinions on board or reading their posts properly. It also goes against forum etiquette to make so very many posts on the same issue. There is a good reason for this - if everyone (or even two or three more people) did it then the whole board would break down in a mire of pointless discussions.

I have to say I find your posts on other topics to be quite good. You just seem to have gone a bit wild on this one.

[Lord_Bob]

I'm not being paid to post here.

If others want to tell me to "Die in a river" or talk to me in an extremely condescending manner, like Chris_Byler, then that's fine. I can generally get them to leave me alone after a few responses. However, I have no reason to sit down and allow people to verbally attack me because "Edi won't let you respond".

Of course, you could say "Chris_Bylers message made sense", but then we would be left with the puzzling lack of a response to my reply to his "message". The "message" was nothing more than the tone a boss uses to humilate an employee that he can fire. I am not Chris_Byler's employee, therefore I don't have to act like one.

[Edi]

Lord_Bob said:
Since you have access to what I wrote, why don't you quote it? I give you full permission. I think that would make my "persecution complex" quite clear to everyone. So go ahead.

I do not actually have access to direct quotes, I only have access to the impression another moderator expressed without directly quoting you. I thought that was obvious from my phrasing.

Lord_Bob said:
Specifically, the fact that Jazzepi thought it was okay to tell me to "Die in a river" for no reason at all. He knew you would be okay with this, because, you are, aren't you?

I actually managed to miss that one, since both this thread and the other multipage one are as big as they are. No, I'm not okay with what he said and he should not have done that. Frustrated as he might be with you, there was no call for him to say such a thing.

Lord_Bob said:
Oh, and Chris_Byler was being deliberately rude to.

I'd really like to know how Chris was being rude to you. He, like many others, are frustrated with how you have acted with regard to the PD issue, so he did not perhaps bother to coach his post in the most flowery language, but his core message is NOT rude.

It is a suggestion to make a PD mod to test out what would be useful, if you can improve things and see where it goes. Demand for such things is not guaranteed, but without trying, such things don't get made. Often when people have an issue with some aspect of the game, they see if they can mod it more to their liking. The CBM (Complete Balance Mod) is one example that adjusts nearly everything in the game.

The Better Independents mod is another one, I got tired and frustrated with always fighting the same nameless, faceless AI hordes composed of indie archers, militia, light infantry and barbarians with maybe 1% national troops mixed in and rarely any of the good quality independents. Sombre came up with the concept of No Independents (NI) maps due to a modding fluke, but I wanted a somewhat different solution, so I tried my hand at it and posted it here in case somebody else was also interested. I do not know just how popular it is, but I made it anyway without having any guarantees.

Chris's suggestion is very much along the same lines, but obviously laced with his frustration, which is fairly understandable.

Lord_Bob said:
You just have 100% tolerance for certain people who get to run around and get in everyone elses face. That's the way most message boards are run, so I don't expect any better from you.

I'd really like to see the evidence for the claim that I play favorites and abuse my power as a moderator. There are few things I like less than being baselessly accused of abuse of power. I can also assure you that any moderator here who does take it to his head to abuse users and his position as a moderator is not going to remain a moderator for very long. The administrators of the forum have absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for that sort of behavior and will throw such miscreants unceremoniously out on their arse. If you have any such evidence of wrongdoing on my part, please present it to Mindi and Annette so they can resolve the issue. If you're correct, they'll present you with my hide in a suitably singed condition.

My main function here is maintaining the bug shortlist stickied to the top of the forum and the other moderation duties are incidental. It may look like I jump in every thread since I generally have something to say about how the mechanics of Dominions 3 work because I know them pretty well, but actual moderating of user actions, that's rare. I do not particularly like doing it, but I will if the situation calls for it. These PD threads have caused a situation that calls for it. It should say something that Ich and Sombre, who are generally the models of patience with new people, have seriously considered putting you on an ignore list or already done so. They're some of the last people I'd have expected to do that.

In any case, I hope that this response can help you see just how this whole issue has developed and where it stands right now. As llamabeast said, you have fine posts on other topics but this PD issue sends you into a frenzy for some reason.

[Edi]

Ich, please do not fan the flames any further. If you do not have anything to add but more gasoline to an already burning blaze, stay silent. This whole issue is already enough of a cluster**** that it doesn't need more crap.

Vendettas in general are bad for the forum, so kindly do not pursue them. That goes for everyone else as well.