OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

[Jack Simth]

Narf - I'm back, and just registered an exit on your character.

[NullAshton]

Okay, here's my level 13 character sheet.

[Jack Simth]

Attaching today's log; server closed, 1 wish to the Rogue, one Devourer killed, one Glazebreu defeated (but it lived....); everyone up to 13th level, with 1300 xp over 13th; lucky combo, no?

[Jack Simth]

So... comments?

[NullAshton]

Note to self, intimidate all demons you come across http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And another note, remember to use combat expertise feat... It hurts when you get hit by one of those big demons.

[Jack Simth]

The only reason that worked, at all, is because he was down, hard, on his abilities; the equation was 1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear; the demon had 3 negative levels at the time - so his Hit Dice were down by 3, and he was also down by 3 on his saves - so rather than running 1d20+12+3+11, he was running 1d20+9+3+8. And he was down to 5 hp. One more Smite Evil, or Sneak Attack, would have killed him.

Also, Intimidate takes one full minute - the in combat version takes only a standard action, but also only leaves the target shaken, and only lasts for one round. However, if you have three guys successfully intimidate the same target in the same round, he is panicked and fleeing in a random direction at utmost speed ... for 1 round.

[NullAshton]

Sweet, we should try that. Coordinated intimidate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Even demons run from us!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Good game, good villian.

[NullAshton]

Bad ouch time. That stupid demon almost killed me in one hit...

[Jack Simth]

One volley, not one hit. It was three successful hits, out of five attempted. There were two misses in there.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Sweet, we should try that. Coordinated intimidate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Even demons run from us!

Trouble being that it needs three Intimidate monkeys to pull off - good, solid Intimidate Monkey's - as the opposed check quickly heads up as the opponents go up in level:
"1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear" - Hit dice increase base saves (and thus are effectively counted 1.333... to 1.5 times) and Wisdom adds to saves (and thus is counted twice). A CR 1 Heavy Horse has 3 HD, a +4 Will save, and a +1 Wisdom Bonus - and is thus running at 1d20+8. A CR 5 Dire Lion has 8 HD, a +7 Will save, and a +1 Wisdom Bonus - and is thus running at 1d20+16; a CR 10 Young Adult Brass Dragon has 16 HD, +12 Will save, and a +2 Wisdom modifier - and thus is running at 1d20+30 (math may be off due to differences on the fact that it's a fear-based will save, rather than a striaght will save). How high do you think you can get three characters to coax their Intimidate modifiers? And even then, there are quite a few critters that are simply immune to fear - completely - and will be unaffected by Intimidate. If everyone has focused on Intimidate....

[NullAshton]

Is 10 AM good for you people, or do you want to have the game at noon again? This is in your time, by the way.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Went to bed rather late last night. I'd rather have it at 2.

Back to bed for me.

[NullAshton]

Nooooooooo... That's 5 PM here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

I just got up about 15 minutes ago (11 am, my time) - so 10 am my time is definately out.

I did, however, leave my schedualed tasks alone, so the server is currently set to turn itself on at about 11:30, so I can check it and make sure it's working by noon (as last weeks session)

Not sure what time we will actually start, however.

[NullAshton]

What about noon like usual? O.o Please?

[Jack Simth]

Works for me - don't know about Narf, however. Well, I sort of do - he'll probably be sleeping until 1 pm or 2 like he mentioned.

[NullAshton]

Meh. I wish he'd wake up already...

[Jack Simth]

Well, server online. Today's random: [100d20]=(1056)

[Jack Simth]

Game ended for the day ... a few angels (Astral Devas, specifically) temporarily on our side, one Xorn sent home, an invisible stalker downed, not quite killed, and spared; some plot stuff accomplished; masterwork theives tools for the party rogue, a cloak of charisma for the Paladin of the party. Party up to 82422 xp per player.

Zip of all my OpenRPG logs attached.

[Jack Simth]

So... comments for today's session?

Seems I can't just ask for comments anymore - it won't let me put in two of the same post....

Also, it would probably be a good idea to set a time slot.

[NullAshton]

Why the heck does that wizard use so many scrying spells? Whenever you tell us to make a Will save, we know that if we fail, some demon is going to pop up.

[Jack Simth]

Because he's a Sorceror, not a Wizard - he has a much more limited spell list, and must focus on a smaller set of tricks. Also, the Scry/Buff/Teleport combo is quite effective.... and permits me to have a relatively rational explanation for random encounters of a reasonable CR for the party's level without having to worry about why entire towns aren't routinely wiped out by the hordes of wandering monsters.

[NullAshton]

Scramble it up, like scry, then summon the monsters once everyone is sound asleep again.

[Jack Simth]

For that kind of thing, though, I'd either need to get the party to stay in place (which wouldn't be too hard), or get a "mundane" spy to track the party and report a decent description of the place (which wouldn't be difficult either ... hmm ...) ... or perhaps something else....

[NullAshton]

Doesn't scrying last a while?

[Jack Simth]

1 min/level; not really enough time for everyone to go back to sleep.... besides; the scrying itself only wakes someone if they succeed on the save ... in which case, the scryer doesn't see anything, and can't try again for a day. Greater Scrying takes only a standard action, and lasts 1 hour/level - but it's a higher level spell.

...

Which reminds me - I need to level up the BBEG to keep him a little bit ahead....

...

There. He now has a few more tricks in his repetior.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

NullAshton said:
Doesn't scrying last a while?


Ashton: Rule 0: Do *Not* give the GM ideas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Jack: It was fun.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Ashton: Rule 0: Do *Not* give the GM ideas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif


Oh, I have plenty of ideas already. There are some interesting interations when one spell duplicates another except for a few details....
narf poit chez BOOM said:
Jack: It was fun.

Good to know.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yeah. Although something other than demons to smite would be nice...

...Perferably something with treasure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Jack Simth]

I think that can be arranged ... perhaps something in a nice chromatic ... a small side-quest ... perhaps tie it in, somehow ...

[NullAshton]

Yes. Treasure would be nice. Like... oh I don't know... don't most villians have some minions? Minions that are not summoned?

[NullAshton]

Dragons are good too, especially shiny draggys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[NullAshton]

Weeeee, about that time again... Is 10 AM, PST good for you? Places it right after my lunch.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

May not be awake then.

Might be up, but not awake.

[Jack Simth]

Well.... server online.

[NullAshton]

Comeon narf!

[Jack Simth]

Back from dinner - Strange, I just registered an exit on your character, NullAshton.

[NullAshton]

Meh, I died http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

One clay golem killed, four level-10 Warrior guards defeated, one Thought Slayer escaped, one evil baron captured, one Paladin with a justification for overthrowing said baron, one mystery cabinet with something inside for loot.

Also, arrangements made for repairing two weapons, and getting the wagon enchanted for privacy while sleeping....

Log attached.

Also, one PC dead by rolling an 18 on a save-or die DC 19 effect.

[Jack Simth]

In the cabinet... you find two scrolls of identify, a very unusual bottle of oil, very carefully wrapped against damage, and a plain-looking ring.

[Jack Simth]

Oh... and quite a few darts fly harmlessly through Jason when he opens it, but that's hardly of note.

Also - other than the ruin-your-day-failed-save-or-die on Kibin, how did everyone enjoy the session?

[NullAshton]

It was fun. My character is going to have a talk with Derrel if he gets revived, though, about him and his noisy armor...

[Jack Simth]

Except, of course, that with your luck, you will come back as a troglidite and not have much to say about being stealthy...

Or you will roll a 100, and I'll need to pick something from the "other" category....

[NullAshton]

Huh? Okay, think we can schedule an extra roleplaying game? Say, around Monday? I wanna see how this goes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

Well, the Reincarnate Spell (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsPtoR.html#reincarnate) is part of the SRD; however, as a 4th level spell, it can't be made into a potion. True Reincarnate (Druidic version of True Ressurection) is no longer a part of the core rules - and was a 9th level spell, even when it was - so in no way (other than DM fiat....) can be made into a potion or oil. I'm planning on having a little fun with fiat on this one (just be glad I'm not planning to use the 3.0 reincarnate table....) and will at some point be making you roll a d100 to see what form your character wakes up in. A Troglodite is one of the options, as is "other" (DM's choice....).

Also, narf isn't online on Sundays, so Tuesday would be the earliest we could schedule another session.

We could also hash it out here - have Jason read the two provided scrolls of Identify to check what the items are, then have Derrel apply the oil, and have you roll the d100 with An Online Die Roller (http://irony.com/mailroll.html) putting my e-mail address as one of the ones to send the result to (it should be in my profile), and reporting the number here.

[NullAshton]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Friday I guess, then...

Actually, the 3.0 list seems more fun. Fear the talking wolfie with sneak attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Humanoid reincarnation is boring

*holds up a sign that says Wolf or bust!*

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Friday I guess, then...

Actually, the 3.0 list seems more fun. Fear the talking wolfie with sneak attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Humanoid reincarnation is boring

*holds up a sign that says Wolf or bust!*



Of course, any result other than a small humanoid would pretty much require you give up your armor.... how many blows has that deflected so far?

[NullAshton]

Meh. A lot... Still, I can use sneak attacks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Eh, maybe we can hash it out here. No dice though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif WOLFIE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Or leopard. Meh. You're an evil DM, you know that?

[Jack Simth]

Edit: All DM's are evil; it's in the handbook. Wolf chosen because that's what you were insistent on while I was typing this up....

Okay. Wolf it is.
Stats:
Let's see.... undoing your racial adjusments means +4 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con relative to what you have currently, while adding the Wolf's racial adjustments changes things an additional +2 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, for a net change of +6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Con from your current character sheet.
Hit points:
2d10 racial Magical Beast hit die add 11 HP (average), + 2*your new Con bonus per hit die, + the bonus HP from the change in Con for pre-existing HD (3*13 = 39 more HP)
BAB:
Magical beast gets full BAB, so +2 BAB.
Skills: 2+Int Mod skill points per Hit Die, class skills for those two being Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival.
Feats:
Pick up Track as a racial bonus feat, and the change to a 15 HD critter means you get a feat of your choosing (also means its going to be a while before you gain another level....).
Trip (Ex): A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.
Scent: +4 racial bonus to Survival rolls when tracking by scent
Saves:
As a Magical Beast, you get good Fort and Reflex saves for your racial HD, so you get +2 each to base Fort and Reflex relative to what you have now (as multiclassing - +2 for first HD, 1/2 for each additional, round down - 2.5 round down = 2)
Misc:
Good luck making a Disable Device check.... no hands anymore.
Your armor doesn't fit (on two counts - size and type).
You can't get in and out of your cloak without aid (although it fits perfectly, due to it's adaptive magic).
You are now ECL 15 with your previous experience points - it will be a while before you level again....
As a Magical Beast, you have Darkvision 60 feet and Low Light vision.
You will need to go through your assorted skills and update any bonuses/penalties that were due to your size (such as grapple check modifiers)
Likewise, as a quadruped, you get certain bonuses in some fairly rare circumstances (such as someone trying to trip you)
You are now eligible for Monster Feats whose prerequisits you meet.
If you like, you can also re-choose your character's gender.


Jason summons up his Spectral Hand, reads the first scroll of identify, and touches the carefully preserved oil with the hand...
And then runs, full tilt, with a panicked look on his face, deep into the forest.

20 minutes later, he runs back, full tilt, and gives the results:
"It's bottled life! We can use this to bring Kibin back! Just make sure to get him out of his armor first - we can't be totally certain of the results; the energy tasted a bit... odd. Not quite like what a cleric channels."

Derrel shrugs, removes Kibin's armor, weapons, and clothing, then pours the fluid out on the body.

Over the course of the next 10 minutes, Kibin changes and grows - he sprouts hair, grows to the size of a man, and changes to move on all fours. Afterwards, he awakens ... a full-grown wolf, and the bottle is empty.

[NullAshton]

Personally, I don't think Jason would run... And why would I rechoose my character's gender... And for the Disable Device check, I might could use my teeth or something... Anyway, can I still attack two times on a full attack?

[NullAshton]

And, is my gloves of dexterity removed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Personally, I don't think Jason would run...

Funny stuff happens when undead are hit by a blast of positive energy.... flavor - like an long-extended turning check
NullAshton said: And why would I rechoose my character's gender...

Completely new body - but as I said - optional.
NullAshton said: And for the Disable Device check, I might could use my teeth or something...

No fine manipulaters. A ring of Telekenisis would do the trick, however.
NullAshton said: Anyway, can I still attack two times on a full attack?

No, that's one I missed. I'm willing to let you burn your new feat for a custom feat that grants the ability, however.

NullAshton said:
And, is my gloves of dexterity removed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif


No, but you shrunk out of them. No hands anymore.

[NullAshton]

Hehe, you forgot weapon focus as a bonus feat. And I guess I'll take that custom feat for two bite attacks... What about extra skills? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Eh, I think up there you said 8(with my +2 intelligence mod...) So I guess I'll go add 8 to something, then...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Hehe, you forgot weapon focus as a bonus feat.

Actually, no I didn't - the weapon focus(Bite) is what most wolves use for their HD feat - it's only Track that they get as a racial bonus feat. It's why Track is flagged with a B, while Weapon Focus(Bite) isn't.

Oh, and I suspect you will end up with three attacks - +9 Bab from 13 levels of Rogue, +2 BAB from 2 Magical Beast HD make for a BAB of +11/+6/+1, once you pick up the feat that lets you continue iterative attacks with your one natural weapon.

[NullAshton]

Eh, I added the 8 skill points to Survival. A wolf needs to know how to hunt, I guess...

[NullAshton]

I called the feat 'Natural Multiattack' A heavy load for me is now 151 to 225 feet... My fortitude save is a lot better now(could have used that earlier...) and I'm not a 2 and a half weakling any more...

[NullAshton]

And HP is now at 119... I think that's right.

[NullAshton]

Can you start up the OpenRPG server so we can talk about this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

EDIT: Here's my character sheet, that should work.

[Jack Simth]

Server online at the moment.

Let's see... you are out of rations, your appearence entry needs updating ... and your sword is currently being repaired (not that you will be able to use it for much until you can play around with Polymorph effects....) ... and you have a +1 on your attack rolls that I can't account for... I suspect you either forgot to drop the +1 from being small, or the +1 from the sword you can no longer use.

[NullAshton]

Updated sheet with changes.

[Jack Simth]

Sever offline. A little character sheet tweaking and some intro to shopping.

Also: for selling - you can do most of this offline, although I will want to see your work - get half of your investment back on each of the items (e.g., those +4 Gauntlets of Dexterity, market price 16,000 gp yield 8,000 gp when sold).

For buying: The mundane portion of the armor costs double for medium nonhumanoids, figured after price boosts due to material - so that Mithral Chain Shirt, 1,100 for humanoids, costs 2,200 for a wolf. The magical portion, however, remains unchanged - a +5 Glammered Slick Mithral Chain Shirt costs 32,550 for a medium or small humanoid, but 33,650 for a medium non-humanoid (wolf).

Item Slots available for a wolf:

* One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head
* One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes
* One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck
* One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso
* One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt)
* One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor)
* One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor)
* Two pairs of bracers or bracelets on the legs (fore and aft)
* Two rings (one on each front paw)
* Two pairs of boots or shoes (front set and rear set)

Note that, while some such items must be specially made, crafting is available, and it doesn't impact the price like armor does.

[NullAshton]

Wolves can wear a lot more items that I thought they could...Can they refit some existing items to fit?

[Jack Simth]

No, unfortunately.

However, most items are equipped with adaptive magic - the primary exception being armor - and need no alterations to work; you lack a hand slot now, so the gloves aren't any good for you. However, you have an extra bracer/bracelet and boot slot, so you could wear both boots of elvinkind and boots of haste (as an example). Items can't be migrated from one slot to another, however, without extensive reworking, and you are better off selling them and buying new (and the off-slot penalty increases the price - 50% additional cost), so you could get boots of dexterity, but a +4 would cost 24,000 gp (16,000*1.5).

Armor can't be reworked without being destroyed.

[NullAshton]

Ah, so cheaper just to get alternatives, like protection...

Saturday will be fun.

[Jack Simth]

Also note that it's usually cheaper to spread the bonuses out - an Amulet of Natural Armor +2 costs 8,000 gp; a Ring of Protection +2 costs 8,000 gp; between the two, you've got an Amulet of Natural Armor's +4 bonus to ac ... but the Amulet of Natural Armor +4 costs 32,000.....

You need to watch bonus types when doing so, however, as bonuses of like type don't stack - a Ring of Protection (Deflection bonus) will stack with an Amulet of Natural Armor (Natural Armor enhancement) but two Rings of Protection won't stack.

[NullAshton]

Ah, I'll probally just have bracers of armor instead of regular armor. Don't have to wait 5 minutes for you to put on my armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jack Simth]

You know, Mage Armor is a touch spell, and Jason can arrange for his touch spells (4th level and lower) to touch others.... consider that before you go purchasing anything with less than a +4 bonus....

[NullAshton]

Maybe I'll just go grab some bracers of armor... Still don't know what that ring is... You know, I can walk at the same speed as Jason's horses now? At least when it's lugging around all that stuff. Maybe even a little faster...

[NullAshton]

Uh, how much did you say I had left? I think I'm going to go with the Bracers of armor +5, only 25,000 gold pieces.

[NullAshton]

That, combined with Mage Armor, should put my AC back up to where it was.

[douglas]

Bracers of Armor and Mage Armor don't stack because they both give an armor bonus. Bracers +5 are only slightly better than mage armor, so you'd probably be better off spending the money on improving your ring of protection and amulet of natural armor unless those are already too expensive to improve.

[NullAshton]

My amulet of natural armor +2 is only 8,000... Selling it, gives me just enough money for an amulet of natural armor +4. Anyway, I think I like the ring of protection better. Could get a +3 ring, and have enough money to get some other stuff... Unless the ring the DM gave us is a ring of protection.

[Jack Simth]

Oh, you can get an item improved for the price difference - an ANA +2 costs 8,000; an ANA +4 costs 32,000; improving an ANA+2 to a ANA +4 costs 24,000; or a breastplate +1 (1,000 in magic) can be improved to a breastplate +2 (4,000 in magic) for 3,000 gp. When I said reworked, I was referring to the shape...

[NullAshton]

Can you tell us what the ring is already? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Anyway, a new person is wanting to join. A wizard. I got most of her character sheet done, now I just gotta add this list of spells in her blessed book... And description. I started her off at level 13, by the way, and with the 32 point buy system.

[Jack Simth]

Who shall be playing her?

Oh, all right - Jason uses the other scroll, having first brought up another Spectral Hand, to identify the ring

Jason: Hmm.... Handy. Seems this ring can hold a bit of magic that's planted in it, ready to be used later. A minor ring of Spell Storing, you might say.

[NullAshton]

Meh. Anyway, I told Violist about the game, and she wanted to join. I got her level 13 character sheet, and everything. YAY! POLYMORPH! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

And, can I buy bracers of armor +4, then Jason uses Mage's Armor to improve it to +8 for a little while at a time?

[Jack Simth]

Not quite - Bracers of Armor and Mage Armor both provide an Armor bonus - they don't stack. A Ring of Protection (Deflection bonus) would stack with a casting of Mage Armor, an Amulet of Natural Armor (Natural Armor enhancement) would stack with a casting of Mage Armor, a Dusty Rose Prisim Ioun Stone (Insight Bonus) would stack with a casting of Mage Armor, but Bracers of Armor would not. Jason's Shield spell would stack with either, but it's a Personal spell (and only lasts 1 min/level). However, he could put a few Shield spells into the ring of spell storing (which would then be reduced to caster level 1st), and you could use a standard action at the beginning of combat to cast it - granting a +4 Shield bonus to AC for 10 rounds (more than the length of most combats, really).

[NullAshton]

Meh. I could get a ring of protection +3... Then Mage's Armor would bring me up to 7. And Jason could also cast three Shields into the ring, allowing me to bump up AC up 11... Or I could just have +5 bracers of armor... Okay, so how about I buy the +5 bracers of armor, then you place those shield spells into the ring. That way, I still have a ring slot left. Or, if two sets of those bracers stack(Bracers of Armor is the only useful bracers that I can use...)I could just get two +3 sets of bracers.

[Violist]

Yep, I'd like to play please. Attached is the charsheet.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Munchkins, the two of you. My head just started spinning.

Hmm...New person with char sheet...

At this rate, we may have a full party by new years!

(Don't mind me, I'm nuts)

[Jack Simth]

Null:
Two pairs of Bracers of Armor won't stack, as they both provide Armor bonuses.

Violist:
I'm surprised you didn't pick up a Headband of Intellect or some such; your character sheet lists 1993 PP = 19,930 GP, while a Headband of Intellect +4 costs 16,000 gp, and improves your spell save DC's at no action cost as well as increasing your bonus spells (if worn constantly) which would get you an additional 7th, 6th, 3rd, and 2nd spell slots over and above what you have available currently (currently 0:4, 1:6, 2:5, 3:5, 4:5, 5:4, 6:2, 7:1). Also, you didn't purchase any of the expensive MC's for the spells you know - but looking at your spells, something isn't right - I total up the value of your assorted items, and come up with about 110,000 k (give or take about 20 gp - which matches, assuming no significant amount of spell purchasing). I check your spellbook, and find 4 7th level spells at ECL 13 - How? A little more in-depth checking gets me:
At 13th:
By Advancement Only, maximizing highest-level spells Vs. Counted on Character Sheet
2 7th vs. 4
4 6th vs. 5
4 5th vs. 6
4 4th vs. 3
4 3rd vs. 5
4 2nd vs. 1
Int+5 (10) 1st vs. 8
All (19) 0th vs. 15

Narf: Well, mostly, they had more time to optimize their characters. I'm getting a little worried that there isn't any primary healer, though.... and watch out for squirrels.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And more interest in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Narf: Well, mostly, they had more time to optimize their characters. I'm getting a little worried that there isn't any primary healer, though.... and watch out for squirrels.


You play on Saturdays, right? I think I've got time for another campaign, and I have no objection to playing a healer. What method of ability score generation do you use, and is material from Complete Divine allowed (specifically, the Favored Soul class)?

[Jack Simth]

Saturdays, yes.

Stat generation: Not particularly picky.

As for permitted sources ... I can't DM anything I don't have access to myself - which is mostly some old 3.0 material and the Online SRD. Complete Divine is, unfortunately, one of the many books I don't have. Sorry.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Complete Divine is, unfortunately, one of the many books I don't have. Sorry.


It's also one of the many books I have pdf's of, which I could share if you have enough bandwidth and/or patience...

[Jack Simth]

Is it Open Gaming Liscense? (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/legal.html)

[douglas]

Hmm, I guess not. Oh well, clerics can be good too.

Edit: Some google searching turned up http://karuikage.net/dnd/favoredsoul.html with all the details on the Favored Soul class. So, can I take it?

[NullAshton]

About the spellbooks, most of the level 0 and level 1 spells are from first level. Then there's 12 more levels after that, for a total of 24 spellbooks. It doesn't exactly say WHAT levels you can get spellbooks on...

[Jack Simth]

SRD, Classes, Wizard
Spellbooks: A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all wizards can prepare from memory.

A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from her prohibited school or schools, if any; see School Specialization, below) plus three 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the wizard has, the spellbook holds one additional 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.

(Emphasis added)

For characters, there needs to be some possiblility of them having advanced - this is also part of the reason a Ftr-4 can't have Weapon Specialization twice - it requires Fighter level 4th for the feat, and the fighter only has one feat from 4th or higher at 4th - wizards get them as they progress in the Wizard class, not all at once - so purely from advancement, a wizard with Int 20 can have 10 first level spells (3+Int bonus for 1st level, 2 for second level) four spells per spell level of 2nd-6th (2 2nd at 3rd, 2 2nd at 4th; 2 3rd at 5th, 2 3rd at 6 th, et cetera), and 2 7th level spells (just now available at 13th). A wizard can trade a higher level spell out for a lower-level spell (as it's up to the highest level available for casting, not at the highest level; thus, the wizard could have 1 7th but 5 6th level spells). Now, she can go the route of purchasing spells, and have a few more, but that will reduce her money available.

[douglas]

douglas said:
Edit: Some google searching turned up http://karuikage.net/dnd/favoredsoul.html with all the details on the Favored Soul class. So, can I take it?

[NullAshton]

Douglas, I believe it was decided on a 32 point buy system. I think that system is listed somewhere in the SRD. Why can't you just be cleric? Cleric can still hit people over the head with weapons. Or be a druid, they have healing abilities.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Edit: Some google searching turned up http://karuikage.net/dnd/favoredsoul.html with all the details on the Favored Soul class. So, can I take it?


Monk-perfect saves, Cleric HD & BAB, Sorceror's Spells Per Day, nearly double the Sorceror's spells known, shield and medium armor proficiency (which do not interfere with spellcasting), AND nifty class features at mid+ levels? Well, I can see why you want the class... sure ... but I will be watching the restrictions ...

Also, Good dieties only for character choices for this class.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Douglas, I believe it was decided on a 32 point buy system. I think that system is listed somewhere in the SRD.

It's not. Just like the XP tables are not in the SRD. It is, however, in the DMG.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Monk-perfect saves, Cleric HD & BAB, Sorceror's Spells Per Day, nearly double the Sorceror's spells known, shield and medium armor proficiency (which do not interfere with spellcasting), AND nifty class features at mid+ levels? Well, I can see why you want the class... sure ... but I will be watching the restrictions ...

Also, Good dieties only for character choices for this class.


Thanks. Standard D&D pantheon from the PHB? For when I'm not casting spells, is the party more in need of a melee or ranged fighter?

What time on Saturday, and what's the server name and any passwords you use?

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Thanks. Standard D&D pantheon from the PHB?

Yep - hopefully they didn't change too much from 3.0 to 3.5....
douglas said:
For when I'm not casting spells, is the party more in need of a melee or ranged fighter?


We have two that go for melee, so ranged would probably fit better
douglas said:

What time on Saturday, and what's the server name and any passwords you use?

Noon PST (for reference, it's 9:15 pm my time when I'm posting this, and I'm the one that runs the server), Loony, cheese

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And welcome to the two new members!

Woot!

[Jack Simth]

Let's see... Paladin (Narf), Wizard (Violist), Favored Soul (Douglas), Rogue (Null) - close to the iconic four ... probably getting to be about time to retire Jason and focus on DMing ...

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Yep - hopefully they didn't change too much from 3.0 to 3.5....


I just checked my 3.5 PHB vs my old 3.0 PHB, and there are only two differences. Ironically, one of them is highly relevant to my character. First, 3.5 includes the errata changing Gruumsh to chaotic evil. Second, Ehlonna's favored weapon was changed from the longsword to the longbow.

Jack Simth said:
We have two that go for melee, so ranged would probably fit better


Since I have no particular preference for my character's deity and Ehlonna is the only deity with a ranged favored weapon in 3.5 (no deities favored a ranged weapon in the 3.0 pantheon), I'll be a longbow wielding Favored Soul follower of Ehlonna. I haven't decided between elf and human yet for the race.

Jack Simth said:
Noon PST (for reference, it's 9:15 pm my time when I'm posting this, and I'm the one that runs the server), Loony, cheese


So, 3 pm Eastern.

[NullAshton]

I want to start two hours early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Violist]

Updated charsheet for Kaylin (the wizard). Sorry about the first one...

[NullAshton]

Don't retire Jason!!!

[Violist]

NullAshton said:
I want to start two hours early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Umm.. for us West Coasters that's ... really early, if your normal start time is 1 PM EST.

[NullAshton]

normal start time is 3 PM EST. I want to start at 1 PM EST...

[douglas]

Violist said:
Updated charsheet for Kaylin (the wizard). Sorry about the first one...


Might I suggest adding Analyze Dweomer to your spell list? The focus costs a bit of money (1500 gp) but it's not consumed in the casting like Identify's pearl, and the spell is great for identifying LOTS of stuff really quickly - 1 item per round, up to a total of 1 item per caster level, compared to 1 item per casting and a 1 hour casting time for Identify.

Haste is an excellent whole-party buff that I advise you learn.

As a wizard, you are not limited to the spells you learn from levelling up. You can add any number of spells to your spellbook by paying the cost of a scroll for each extra spell.

Your spell list seems heavily oriented towards killing things, which means your save DC's are very important. You might want to spend some feats on Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus to make your spells harder to resist. This is particularly important for save-or-die spells like Phantasmal Killer, Disintigrate, and Finger of Death.

You forgot to take your Headband of Intellect into account for bonus spell slots.

You might want to consider going for the Archmage prestige class, which would require increasing your Knowledge (Arcana) skill ranks to 15 and changing three of your feats.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Updated charsheet for Kaylin (the wizard). Sorry about the first one...


Oh, that's fine - it's much better to get such things ironed out here where we all can look at things at our lesure than it is to have to point such things out during the game when you had planned an encounter around having something available that you don't have available.

Seems consistent.

[Violist]

Hmm, Analyze Dweomer sounds useful... probably more useful than Flesh to Stone. Haste - perhaps in replacement of Fireball? You're right, my spell list is perhaps too heavy on the killing stuff spells. I think I'll also trade the Run feat in to gain Spell Focus... I don't see a Greater Spell Focus though.

I'm not seeing any bonus spell slots from the Headband (at least, on d20srd.org).

Anyone have any other suggestions before we start tomorrow?

[douglas]

Violist said:
Hmm, Analyze Dweomer sounds useful... probably more useful than Flesh to Stone. Haste - perhaps in replacement of Fireball?


No, keep Fireball. Just pay 3 (spell level) * 5 (minimum caster level) * 25 (scroll) = 375 gp and add Haste without losing anything. The ability to do this is almost the whole point of being a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer.

Violist said:
You're right, my spell list is perhaps too heavy on the killing stuff spells.


Nothing wrong with having a blaster mage, but as a Wizard you should have utility spells too. Your regular list of prepared spells (which I don't see anywhere on your sheet) should be predominantly combat oriented, but you should use your ability to pay money for extra spells known to be able to prepare for nearly anything given a day to change your prepared spells. Teleport and Greater Teleport would be good to have just for what I can think of off the top of my head. You should pretty much just go through the entire wizard spell list and learn anything that sounds useful and not too similar to something else you already know until you run out of money.

Violist said:
I think I'll also trade the Run feat in to gain Spell Focus... I don't see a Greater Spell Focus though.


I don't know where you're looking that you can't find Greater Spell Focus, but it's in the feats section of the official SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) on the Wizards of the Coast website. If you decide to go for the Archmage prestige class, which has some quite useful abilities, I'd suggest replacing Magical Aptitude with Skill Focus (Spellcraft).


Violist said:
I'm not seeing any bonus spell slots from the Headband (at least, on d20srd.org).


The Headband does not grant bonus spell slots directly, per se, but indirectly by increasing your primary ability score. You should use your total intelligence, including the Headband, to determine bonus spell slots.

[Jack Simth]

Yeah - pick up a few scrolls (spell level * caster level * 25 + Material Components Cost + 5*XP cost) of a few spells, and scribe them into your Blessed Book - a 7th level spell scroll, with no XP or expensive Material Components, costs 2275 gp (7th level spell, caster level 13th); 6th costs 1650, 5th costs 1125, 4th costs 700, 3rd 375, 2nd 150, 1st 25.

Also consider a safe rest spells (such as Rope Trick (2nd), Secure Shelter (4th), or Mage's Magnificient Mansion (7th)), some buffing spells (Mass Bear's Endurance would grant every living critter in the party quite a few extra HP for a time, while Mass Cat's Grace increases AC (by raising Dex) and Mass Bull's Strength increases damage; even the lowly Mage Armor can really help those that, for one reason or another, aren't wearing significant amounts of armor), and utility spells (okay ... what do you do if, say, an Invisible Stalker decides you would make an excellent target? Likewise, sure, you can use Overland Flight to stay out of ground-based combat and get over those peksy walls, but that isn't going to let anyone else in the party follow you; et cetera)

[douglas]

I'm finishing up my character sheet, just one feat and some equipment left. There's one particular set of body slot conflicts for magic items that I always run into when making high level characters, and I'd like approval for my standard solution:

The conflict is that an Amulet of Natural Armor, Periapt of Wisdom, and Amulet of Health all take up the same slot. My standard solution is custom items using the body slot affinities table (http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities). Specifically, I want a Headband of Wisdom (affinity: mental improvement) and a Shirt of Health (affinity: physical improvement). Since these both match the slot affinities, they should cost the same as the normal item.

[Jack Simth]

Sure, with one little caveat - you have to have been able to build them yourself for the off-slots - if you take Craft Wondrous Item and all the pre-requisite spells for those migrated items on your known list when you start, then go for it. Otherwise, Ye Olde Shoppe of Majicke is going to note that Wisdom falls more under Discernment than mental improvements, and Con and Natural Armor fall under Protection.

[douglas]

Well, that settles my final feat choice. Oh yeah, how much xp above the minimum for 13th level do I have available to spend on crafting items?

[Jack Simth]

86888-78000=8888; however, you just need to have been capable of making the migrated items - if you meet those criteria, you can purchase rather than build yourself.

[douglas]

Ah, but making them myself costs half price http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. Thank you, that's quite a bit more than enough for all my crafting needs. Now why can't clerics cast Cat's Grace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Cause clerics don't suck in meelee?

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Now why can't clerics cast Cat's Grace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Because default clerics get heavy armor proficiency, which makes it kinda useless for them. Druids, on the other hand, are much more sharply limited on what armor they can take, and do have it on their list.

[douglas]

Finished. Elorin the Favored Soul worshiper of Ehlonna is attached. The many weapon entries are because OpenRPG has no clue when rolling secondary attacks is appropriate, and to account for every combination of feats I could use with attacking. The numbers given assume that I have Greater Magic Weapon active on the bow and Magic Vestment on the chain shirt and shield, which is a pretty safe bet as I'll be casting all three spells with Extend Spell metamagic (26 hour duration) every night before resting, or in the morning if I didn't have enough spell slots left. The Headband of Wisdom, Shirt of Health, Belt of Giant Strength, and Cloak of Charisma were all crafted by my character.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Jack Simth said:

douglas said:
Now why can't clerics cast Cat's Grace? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Because default clerics get heavy armor proficiency, which makes it kinda useless for them. Druids, on the other hand, are much more sharply limited on what armor they can take, and do have it on their list.


...I was right??

[Violist]

All right, going through spell list.. I'm slightly confused here - many of these spells have material components required, but I can't seem to find the component for sale. Is that just me not looking in the right places, or is there some system in place for keeping track of them?

So far I'm thinking I'll get:
Haste (requires licorice root)
Secure Shelter (requires square chip of stone, crushed lime, sand, water, splinters of wood... string, a bit of wood...silver wire, tiny bell)
Mass Bear's Endurance
See Invisibility (talc, powdered silver)

That'll bring the amount of gp I have left to 1058... probably not going to go for the Archmage class, at least not yet. Teleport is really expensive at 2275 (unless I'm missing something...), so I don't think I'll buy it unless someone wants to loan me some money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Thanks for helping out, I haven't played D&D in ages. Any further comments?

[douglas]

Violist said:
All right, going through spell list.. I'm slightly confused here - many of these spells have material components required, but I can't seem to find the component for sale. Is that just me not looking in the right places, or is there some system in place for keeping track of them?


Unless it lists a cost for the material component right there in the spell description, assume the cost is negligible and that you always have it available as long as you have your spell component pouch. The same rule also applies for spell foci.


Violist said:
So far I'm thinking I'll get:
Haste (requires licorice root)
Secure Shelter (requires square chip of stone, crushed lime, sand, water, splinters of wood... string, a bit of wood...silver wire, tiny bell)
Mass Bear's Endurance
See Invisibility (talc, powdered silver)


Haste is good, Secure Shelter could be useful, and See Invisibility can be critical at times. I'm not so sure about the value of Mass Bear's Endurance, though - it doesn't stack with any items that increase constitution, and I would expect most PC's that want such items to already have them by 13th level. That would either reduce its effective bonus to +2 or make it completely useless for most PC's.

I'd suggest Glitterdust to go along with See Invisibility - it's nice if you can see invisible enemies, but it's much better if everyone can see them and they're blinded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. If you can get the money to pay for it or give up another spell in exchange, it might be worth it to learn Permanency and spend the 1000 xp to make See Invisibility permanent so you don't have to waste a round casting it every time you need it.

I also highly recommend Slow. It's just as great an enemy debuff spell as Haste is a party buff, if not even better. Slowed enemies can't full attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif. Heck, they can't even move more than 5 feet in a round and continue fighting at the same time.

Violist said:
That'll bring the amount of gp I have left to 1058...


I hope you remembered to buy the 1500 gp focus for Analyze Dweomer. If not, you'll have to revise your spell list or drop some equipment so you'll be able to afford it.

Violist said:
probably not going to go for the Archmage class, at least not yet. Teleport is really expensive at 2275 (unless I'm missing something...), so I don't think I'll buy it unless someone wants to loan me some money http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Greater Teleport is expensive, yes, but just plain Teleport costs a mere 1125. The drawback is that Teleport has a chance of being off target, but it's not a very high chance.

Violist said:
Thanks for helping out, I haven't played D&D in ages. Any further comments?


I hope you've already got OpenRPG set up and working. Also, you should enter your character sheet into OpenRPG so you can roll attack rolls, saving throws, cast spells, etc. just by right-clicking on the entry in the character sheet.

You haven't given any sign yet of having a standard set of spells prepared, and you need one. Unlike Sorcerers, Wizards can't pick and choose from all the spells they know on the spot. You have to pick which spells (and how many of each) to put in your spell slots each day at the start of the day, and it's good to have a standard set so you don't have to agonize over it every day.

[douglas]

douglas said:
Finished. Elorin the Favored Soul worshiper of Ehlonna is attached.


Oops, I overspent on ability scores there. Drop Charisma down 1 point.

[Violist]

Oops, forgot the 1500 GP for the Dweomer focus... taking out Mass Bear's Endurace gives me enough money for the focus and Teleport (leaving me at 83 GP), or, if I leave out Teleport I could use Slow and Glitterdust (puts me back at 683 GP). What does the party think would be more useful?

Just noticed that I could also stick Displacement in... that would be useful on the primary melee character, no? Put me down to 308 GP, but what else do we need gold for?

Thanks for the tip about a standard list, I'm putting it together... let you guys know when I'm done, it'd help to have a list that complements the party's abilities.

[NullAshton]

Shiney spells are cooler, so I'd go with slow and glitterdust : )

[douglas]

Take Slow and Glitterdust, and yes Displacement would be very useful on the primary melee fighter. I've got near 3000 gp left, so I'll buy you a scroll of Teleport. Whether you can add it to your spellbook before we start or whether you'll have to wait until I can hand it over after we join the party is up to Jack.

[NullAshton]

Might we start earlier than 3:00, to make sure we've got everything done before we start?

[NullAshton]

Ah, nm, too late. I think it's time to start?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I've got no problem with that. Half-hour sounds good...

...That way, we can start fifteen minutes late. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[NullAshton]

Hurry up and get over here, we're 10 minutes late...

[NullAshton]

Where the heck are you people? We're already 40 minutes late, and rising!

[Violist]

Aargh. Sorry I'm so late, I had sudden work issues... my viola teacher needed some extra work done today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[NullAshton]

Don't worry, the DM and Narf is still an hour late...

[douglas]

Where is everyone? It's an hour after we were supposed to start, and me and NullAhston are the only ones on the server.

[Violist]

Take Slow and Glitterdust, and yes Displacement would be very useful on the primary melee fighter. I've got near 3000 gp left, so I'll buy you a scroll of Teleport. Whether you can add it to your spellbook before we start or whether you'll have to wait until I can hand it over after we join the party is up to Jack.



Awesome, I'll pay you back whenever I get some money.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Uh...I thought it was at 3:00?

[NullAshton]

It was, 3:00 EST.

[NullAshton]

Server's working again...

[Jack Simth]

Connection dropped off - it's back up now, though.

[Violist]

OK, my standard spell list as I think is happy:

Level Spell
7 Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray
6 Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Stone to Flesh
5 Cone of Cold, Wall of Force, Baleful Polymorph, Overland Flight
4 Black Tentacles, Polymorph, Phantasmal Killer, Secure Shelter, Black Tentacles
3 Slow, Haste, Displacement, Dispel Magic, Fireball, Slow
2 Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, See Invisible, Cat's Grace
1 Protection from Evil, Burning Hands, Magic Missile, Magic Weapon, Shield, Magic Missile
0 Light, Mage Hand, Detect Magic, Arcane Mark

[Jack Simth]

Back a little earlier than I expected.

[Jack Simth]

7 dire wolves killed, 1 escaped, one demon slain; 600 xp for Kibin (you are ECL 15 in an otherwise ECL 13 party, facing off against a CR 14 encounter), 1170 xp each for the rest of the party members (Jason, Derrel, Kaylin, Elorin); treasure in the form of a reward from the mayor for taking down the dire wolves - 429.65 gp to each player (sold gems), except for Kaylin, who pulled some gems from the pool and hired some jewelery (however, she now sports an exquisite gold hair comb with an Elbaite gem and a delicate silver neclace with a black opal).

Also, we have the fate of a +1 Manual of Gainful Exercise (from the mayor's chest; market value: 27,500 gp) to debate - do we use it on a party member to add a +1 Inherent Bonus to Str, or do we sell it for 13,750 gp?

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Also, we have the fate of a +1 Manual of Gainful Exercise (from the mayor's chest; market value: 27,500 gp) to debate - do we use it on a party member to add a +1 Inherent Bonus to Str, or do we sell it for 13,750 gp?


I vote for selling it. Manuals are extremely cost inefficient even just looking at one by itself, we haven't reached the limits of other kinds of items that can give more bonus for the cost, and upgrading an inherent bonus really really sucks - the original bonus is just completely lost, effectively tossing all that money away.

[Jack Simth]

Chuckle - it's also kinda odd that you would ever encounter one in a random generated treasure pile - really, who would go to the trouble of making one, and then not using it immediately? For that matter, with just about anyone who could make one, who would go to the trouble? A few scrolls of Wish would serve the same purpose much faster.

[douglas]

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense that it wouldn't be used right away. As for why scrolls of Wish aren't used instead, the manuals do have a slight discount compared to that - 27000 per point vs 28825 per Wish - and scrolls take just as long to make as any other magic item for their cost. Then again, you can make 5 scrolls of wish one at a time, building up xp between each, where the xp spent on making a manual or casting Wish directly has to be spent all at once. Hmm, this makes me wonder how the +5 manuals ever get made. You'd have to be 25th level to be able to have the required amount of experience without having enough to level up. Now what's really puzzling is why high level Sorcerers don't Gate in Solars and have them use their once-a-day free Wish instead.

[Jack Simth]

Nah - just Planar Bind two Noble Dijinn or Efreet, and convince them both to grant you the three wishes they can grant to a mortal each day in rapid succession - two regular Planar Bindings (6th) will do, as they both have 10 HD each; granted, there is some uncertainty in that - opposed Charisma checks (Efreet and Noble Dijinn should be running at Char 15, mostly), with modifiers for payment, a save involved in getting each critter into a prepared circle (Efreeti have a will save +9 vs. Planar Binding's 6th level spell DC), and spell resistance (which neither has, and this portion can be eliminated with a Calling Diagram) - but a competent Sorceror could get +5 Inherent to all stats at level 12, with a little work (one engraved circle and three spells per binding - Magic Circle Against the appropriet alignment, Dimensional Anchor, and the Planar Binding spell itself - 10 minutes to scribe a circle (at 12th, with max ranks in Spellcraft, you can take 10 and succeed without any difficulties), 1 round each for Magic Circle Against X and Dimensional Anchor, and 10 minutes to cast Planar Binding itself). An hour's work and a Sorceror with three appropriet spells can have +6 to the stat of his choice ... assuming the Sorceror wins the opposed Charisma checks, and the critters don't make their initial will saves.

No XP expenditure at all....

[Jack Simth]

Which reminds me - the party has reached Party Level 14, so it's time to raise the BBEG's level again....

[douglas]

Now what happens if we have Kaylin try that to give all of us +5 inherent to all 6 ability scores? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Jack Simth]

Bearing in mind that she has almost none of the requisite spells on her list ...

They escape and are quite angry when she fails a charisma check somewhere along the line (she has a low charisma modifier).

Or the first one does the some portion of the task, goes home, is quite angry at having been cheated like that, and comes back with an army intent on destroying it's tormentor.

Why do you ask?

Mind you, Jason (if he ever gets high enough to pull the trick off....) would have much better luck doing so (+10 charisma modifier ... probably +11 by the time he can).

There... that should do it for the BBEG.

[Violist]

All right, corrected/proofread charsheet, consistent with the day's playing. Just for general knowledge of what I can and cannot do... which I'm sure most of you saw anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[douglas]

Violist said:
All right, corrected/proofread charsheet, consistent with the day's playing. Just for general knowledge of what I can and cannot do... which I'm sure most of you saw anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Er, perhaps I should have mentioned I corrected a few mistakes when I entered it into OpenRPG for you. Specifically, Listen, Search, Spot, and Use Magic Device had the same problem as Spellcraft with a +2 misc bonus being listed incorrectly as skill ranks. Also, your base save bonuses are too high, which I just now realized is because the +4 bonus from your robe was included in the base bonus instead of the magic modifier column where it's supposed to go. For that one, you'll have to edit your OpenRPG sheet as well, because I reduced the base save bonuses appropriately but didn't add the bonus where it's supposed to go. And, oops my mistake, I also forgot your misc +2 to will saves from Iron Will.

Minor nitpick, you still haven't corrected the bonus spells column, which should be 0, +2, +2, +2, +1, +1, +1, +1.

If Jack lets you change it at this point, I'd suggest replacing Magical Aptitude with Skill Focus (Spellcraft). The only thing you'd lose is a bonus to a skill you can't use (+2 Use Magic Device), you'd get another +1 misc to Spellcraft, and you'd be one feat closer to satisfying the prerequisites for Archmage, which I still think you should consider getting at least a few levels in eventually. Yes, you have to sacrifice a few spell slots to gain the benefits of being an Archmage - who cares, when you can cast a Fireball at the half dozen wolves surrounding some party members and make little 5'x5' holes in the fireball so your friends don't get hurt too? And then, later on you discover that a monster is immune to fire - no problem, you can make that an Acidball instead, or Lightning Ball, or Ball of Cold, or Ball of Thunder, whichever you choose when you cast it and without spending any feats on Energy Substitution (which apparently didn't make it into the SRD).

[NullAshton]

For the book, I vote sell it, and buy a magic item with the money. *cough* belt of giant strength for the wolf

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
For the book, I vote sell it, and buy a magic item with the money. *cough* belt of giant strength for the wolf

You only get half the benefit of a Belt of Giant Strength (the + damage; your Dex would still be high enough that it would outpace the increase from a BoGS) which is pretty much eclipsed by your Sneak Attack anyway. The Paladin, on the other hand, would benefit quite a bit from an increased Strength score (both To-Hit and Damage).

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:

If Jack lets you change it at this point, I'd suggest replacing Magical Aptitude with Skill Focus (Spellcraft). The only thing you'd lose is a bonus to a skill you can't use (+2 Use Magic Device), you'd get another +1 misc to Spellcraft,

A sufficiently small difference that I'd let it happen.
douglas said:
and you'd be one feat closer to satisfying the prerequisites for Archmage, which I still think you should consider getting at least a few levels in eventually. Yes, you have to sacrifice a few spell slots to gain the benefits of being an Archmage - who cares, when you can cast a Fireball at the half dozen wolves surrounding some party members and make little 5'x5' holes in the fireball so your friends don't get hurt too? And then, later on you discover that a monster is immune to fire - no problem, you can make that an Acidball instead, or Lightning Ball, or Ball of Cold, or Ball of Thunder, whichever you choose when you cast it and without spending any feats on Energy Substitution (which apparently didn't make it into the SRD).

Yes, Archmage is quite useful - more so for Sorcerors than Wizards, who get more spell slots to burn, but also harder to enter, with fewer feats and spells known available.

[NullAshton]

Meh, I want to try a druid or fighter, but I like my existing character http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Energy Substitution (which apparently didn't make it into the SRD).


Actually, it did - it's just hiding under the Divine/Feats section (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/divineFeats.html) rather than being in the general feats section.

Mind you, I don't believe Energy Admixture made it.... but then, in many cases, that's more powerful than Maximize....

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Yeah, it doesn't really make sense that it wouldn't be used right away. As for why scrolls of Wish aren't used instead, the manuals do have a slight discount compared to that - 27000 per point vs 28825 per Wish - and scrolls take just as long to make as any other magic item for their cost. Then again, you can make 5 scrolls of wish one at a time, building up xp between each, where the xp spent on making a manual or casting Wish directly has to be spent all at once. Hmm, this makes me wonder how the +5 manuals ever get made. You'd have to be 25th level to be able to have the required amount of experience without having enough to level up.

Ah! I got it! Both the reason you might find +1 books and how the +5 versions could be made!


SRD, Creating Magic Items
ADDING NEW ABILITIES

A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.



So you start by making a +1 Manual or Tome (Cost 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP), then you save it, and when you have more XP to spare, you upgrade it to a +2 ((2,500 gp + 10,200 XP)-(1,250 gp + 5,100 XP)=1,250 gp + 5,100 XP), and when you have more to spare, you upgrade it again to a +3 (upgrade from +2 to +3 costs 1,250 gp + 5,100 XP yet again), wash, rinse, repeat until +5.

So there is both a reason to make them (don't need to shell out 25,000 xp all at once) and a reason why they might hang around for a while (if you use the +3 Manual or Tome, you will have to start over to get a +4 or +5; if the creator is interrupted for some reason - it gets stolen, the creator dies before it's finished, or the creator goes into dire straights and it get sold - but seriously, how many 17th level casters will have that problem?)

[douglas]

I hadn't thought of applying that rule to this kind of item, but it makes sense. That adds a third option to vote for: keep it until we get someone to upgrade it to +5! I'm changing my vote to that now.

[Jack Simth]

Yes... and we only have 4-5 more levels to go until someone qualifies!

[Violist]

Ahh, now I remember why I stopped playing for a while, years ago... such a complex game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Yes... and we only have 4-5 more levels to go until someone qualifies!


You're saying we're not going to find someone willing and able to do it for money for us?

[Violist]

Hmm, OK, I'm sold on the Archmage thing. Do these updated bonus spells mean I add stuff to the spellbook?

In the openRPG node, I can't seem to get it to put feat Skill Focus (Spellcraft). It simply says (general), and refers me to page 85 of the Player's Handbook.

I'm still going to vote for selling the book. Jason, I should pay you back for the scroll of Dimensional Anchor.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:

Jack Simth said:
Yes... and we only have 4-5 more levels to go until someone qualifies!


You're saying we're not going to find someone willing and able to do it for money for us?

That could be arranged.

[Jack Simth]

They are spells per day, not spells known; no adding to the spellbook for that. However, a Wizard's Spells Known are pretty much unlimited (well... limited only to the number of pages in the Wizard's spellbooks... and with a Blessed Book, that's not much of a limit), so any you learn by research, copying from scrolls, copying from found spellbooks, and the like are simply added.

[douglas]

Violist said:
Hmm, OK, I'm sold on the Archmage thing. Do these updated bonus spells mean I add stuff to the spellbook?


No, bonus spells only affect how many spells you can cast per day.

Violist said:
In the openRPG node, I can't seem to get it to put feat Skill Focus (Spellcraft). It simply says (general), and refers me to page 85 of the Player's Handbook.


I'm afraid OpenRPG isn't set up to handle feats that specify a skill like that properly. You'll have to manually edit the xml to get it in. Here's how to do that:

1. (optional) This step is necessary only if you want a backup in case you screw up. Start up OpenRPG, right-click on the top level node of your character sheet and select "Save node". Name it whatever you want. Close OpenRPG.
2. Open the file you created in step 1 (or OpenRPG/myfiles/tree.xml) in a text editor.
3. Search for "Magical Aptitude". Change it to "Skill Focus (Spellcraft)". Save the file.
If you edited tree.xml, you're done. Otherwise, continue:
4. Start up OpenRPG again, right-click on the node at the very top labelled "Game Tree" and select "Insert File". Choose the file you edited.
5. Check that the new node works properly and then delete the original node.

That should take care of the feat, but OpenRPG isn't smart enough to know what the feat does - you'll have to manually set your Use Magic Device misc bonus to 0 and increase Spellcraft misc by 1.

I had to do something like this to add Knowledge: Dungeoneering and a few of your feats originally, and similar edits might be necessary for future spells learned for spells that were introduced in 3.5.

Violist said:
I'm still going to vote for selling the book. Jason, I should pay you back for the scroll of Dimensional Anchor.


If we're going to have to upgrade it ourselves, then I'll go back to voting for the sale. Edit: So hiring the upgrades is possible? Then I say we keep it for later.

[Violist]

Ahh, should have thought of that. Suppose I'd better update the standard spell list too.

Too many more silly questions from me and I'll start to feel really dumb http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

[NullAshton]

What about saving up for a ring of telekinesis, or something even MORE useful, a skin of proetus?

[NullAshton]

You know, hyrdas are incapable of speech...

[douglas]

Violist said:
Too many more silly questions from me and I'll start to feel really dumb http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif


I'm sorry if I made you feel dumb. I just had no idea how computer savvy you are or how much you know about OpenRPG, so I decided to play it safe and give instructions a proverbial 5 year old should be able to follow.

[Violist]

Nah, it's OK, I appreciate the step-by-step thing. It's just... I used to know a lot more about how D&D worked, and what is done in various situations. Thanks for your patience.

[NullAshton]

Violist, you need to prepare more polymorphing spells. That's fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Violist]

Haha, why don't I accidentally cast Baleful Polymorph instead of Polymorph? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

I'm updating my standard spell list with what I've seen from battles so far, and since we have that protection thing on the wagon, I don't need Secure Shelter... why don't I replace that with Polymorph, so I'll have Polymorph prepared twice daily?

[NullAshton]

Meh, if you can only cast it 2 times a day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Once I get that skin of proetus, THEN the fun begins. Infinite metamorphisis! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

There's also the problem that a bound creature is likely to grant the wish...Creatively.

[NullAshton]

Hmmm, maybe the magic that allows me to talk crosses over into polymorphed forms... Interesting. Of course, our DM may be evil enough to make someone use a dispel magic on my, rendering me unable to talk for a while...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
What about saving up for a ring of telekinesis, or something even MORE useful, a skin of proetus?

Well, I suppose, if you are up for a CR 20 encounter, that can be arranged....

Or perhaps a CR 18 encounter with a double-treasure rating.... or a CR 16/triple. Hmm.... perhaps a dragon... or a half-dragon ... or a troll with a few templates... hmm....

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
There's also the problem that a bound creature is likely to grant the wish...Creatively.

You mean like a Magical Beast wishing to be stronger, and ending up being hit with an emulated Polymorph Any Object into a Magical Beast with much more strength, but an Int of 2?

[NullAshton]

Haha. I still need one of those two items http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif Then I can have HANDS again! YAY! Or in the case of telekinesis, emulated hands.

[NullAshton]

I'm sure there's a black dragon that I have some unfinished buisness with...

[Jack Simth]

Ah, but I'm having too much fun statting something big up.....

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
I'm sure there's a black dragon that I have some unfinished buisness with...

He's technically CR 14, and doesn't qualify, even with triple standard treasure for dragons. I've got a little nominally CR 18 double treasure ready, though. Base, two templates, plus advancement - I think it shall do.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... I could also craft a custom item.... something fairly minor and limited that would deal with your problems.... yes....

Oh, and Narf: Sword, Shield, Armor, or Cloak?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Jack Simth said:

narf poit chez BOOM said:
There's also the problem that a bound creature is likely to grant the wish...Creatively.

You mean like a Magical Beast wishing to be stronger, and ending up being hit with an emulated Polymorph Any Object into a Magical Beast with much more strength, but an Int of 2?


Yeah, like that.

Jack Simth said:
Hmm... I could also craft a custom item.... something fairly minor and limited that would deal with your problems.... yes....

Oh, and Narf: Sword, Shield, Armor, or Cloak?


??

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:

Jack Simth said:
Oh, and Narf: Sword, Shield, Armor, or Cloak?


??

Pick one. It's multiple choice. I can also roll 1d4, if you'd prefer.

Also... while Kaylin was busy scribing the scroll of Dimensional Anchor into her spellbook, Jason went and purchased a few items. Daggers. Colossal, 10-ft long daggers, 16 pounds apiece. 36 of them, and had them placed in his wagon.

[Violist]

Those are... big... what would he use them for?

[Jack Simth]

Oh... you'll find out. If you want to know sooner, well, your character has all the requisite skills, and most likely knows everything he's using, so feel free to peruse the spell lists, the monster entry for Ghosts, and work out the base damage of each of those daggers.

[douglas]

Is Jason about to start tossing colossal daggers around 10 at a time?

[Jack Simth]

Of course he isn't going to be tossing colossal daggers around ten at a time. Why would he do that? Now a dozen, on the other hand....

Could have also gone with Colossal Crossbow Bolts, but those tend to break when they hit something, but you can GMW 50 of those at once, and it only costs 16 gp for 10, 80 gp for 50. I considered it, but I do curb my munchkin tendencies to some degree. But then, I'm planning on pitting the party up against a provisionally CR 18 critter on Saturday...

Kaylin could actually pull it off even better, assuming she had the spell for it, as she has a higher caster level (more daggers).

He can only pull it off once every 1d4 rounds, and each one has it's own chance to miss (attack roll vs. full AC), but it has the potential to outpace Disintigrate under the right circumstances.

[Violist]

sounds more fun to wait and find out later... half the pleasure is in the anticipation.

[douglas]

Bah, I somehow mixed up which number was the weight and which was the quantity, and calculated that any more than 10 would exceed the weight limit.

This reminds me of the time back in 3.0 when I wanted to do the same thing, except with ordinary size crossbow bolts. 3.0 Telekinesis had no limit on the number of objects, only on the weight. I had fun imagining casting GMW on something like 200 crossbow bolts (4 castings), dumping them all out of a bag at some point, and hurling all 200 of them at one target with a single spell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif. Since 3.0 had no special provision for tossing ammunition with TK and it was not using the bolts as melee weapons, I was figuring a theoretical maximum of 200d8+600 damage if all of them hit. If even half of them hit, that would be 750 damage on average. In the worst case scenario of requiring a natural 20 to hit, it would still be 75 average damage with no save and no SR. Too bad my conscience got in the way and decided that was a tad too munchkinly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Jack Simth]

How many prep rounds were you assuming there? GMW lasts a while, so that can be done long pre-combat.... dumping out a sack that size would take at least a full-round action... I'm guessing you were going for some form of Bag of Holding? Most of those burst if punctured, and bolts are sharp.

Were I the DM in such a case, and I wasn't inclined to house rule such things, I would have actually made you roll all those attack rolls.... how long until someone at the table decides you are never doing that again when you make 200 of them?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
...

The current version of Telekenisis isn't near so devastating as it sounds - Consider Kaylin - caster level 13 (13 daggers), +6/+1 BAB, Int 24. The attack roll for each weapon is Casting Stat + BAB - so Kaylin would be rolling at +13. If she GMW'd the crossbow bolts, she gets +3 Colossal Crossbow Bolts (3d6+3 damage each, rolling at a net +16 to attack). Consider a CR 13 monster - a Glazebrou, say, out of the box; AC 27, 174 hp, DR 10/Good. When you suck the attack bonus out of the AC, she needs to roll an 11-20 to hit - exactly 50% chance of a strike on any given attack. Due to the DR, she won't be able to damage it, even when she hits, on many of the bolts (3d6+3 breaches the critter's DR by at least one point a little over half the time - need to roll an 8 or higher) and she would average only in the neighborhood of 25 damage from the pair of spells (Telekenisis + GMW) that requires a big setup to pull off (need to be dragging them with - and at 10-ft long, 16 lbs each, you pretty much need to bring your wagon with you - which requires you be outside, mostly).

Compare this to an Empowered Cone of Cold (granted, she doesn't have Empower at the moment - she might buy a Rod, you never know), 1.5*13d6, which will usually get through the Glazebrou's not-so grand reflex save (DC 22, critter's roll of 14 succeeds - 65% chance of full damage) and commonly through it's SR (SR 21, caster level check of 8 or better damages it - 65% chance damage); so the average roll is 68.25 cold damage, which has two 65% checks to pass for full damage and a 65% and 35% for half damage, for an average damage of 43.2534375 - the critter's energy resistance will knock that down by 10, so it averages 33.2534375 points of damage to a Glazebrou for a single action, a single spell, and no need to lug lots of stuff around, and the added benifit that more than one opponent can be caught in it.

Sorry, I number crunch sometimes. The setup sounds much more munhkiny than it is - it's mostly a way for Jason to deal damage to something that he doesn't have much of a chance to grapple.

It's also situational - Cone of Cold permits SR; the telekenisis trick doesn't, so that CR 13 Iron Golem can be hit with the TK trick (for almost no damage AC 30, DR 15/Adamantine abosrbs most 3d6+3 rolls) while the Cone of Cold would not affect it at all (immune to almost anything that allows SR)

[NullAshton]

You know, a simple casting of Align Weapon on Derrel's weapon, would probally make those demons a whole lot easier to kill.

[douglas]

Making it Holy (cost = +2 bonus) would work a lot better for that.

[Jack Simth]

Especially with nobody having Align Weapon on their list....

[NullAshton]

Doesn't douglas have the ability to cast cleric spells?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Sword?

[douglas]

Yes I can cast cleric spells, but unlike clerics I have to choose a spells known list. Since I joined specifically as the party healer, one of my 2nd level spells known had to be Cure Moderate Wounds. I filled up four of the rest with as many prereqs for crafting ability score increasing items (Headband of Wisdom, Belt of Giant Strength, Cloak of Charisma, Shirt of Health) as I could, which left only one for other things. That last one is currently Resist Energy (energy resistance 30 for 10 min/level, could be useful for making someone Fireball bait), but I could switch it out for Align Weapon next level.

The biggest problem with Align Weapon, however, is that its duration is short enough that it has to be cast at the start of battle, which means I can't attack for that round. Consider that I use a ranged weapon, so even my first round of attacking is a full attack, and that my bow is holy and therefore pierces most demons' DR, and you should see why I would much prefer having a continuous effect like the holy special property.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Sword?

Then Sword it shall be, when the time doth arrive.

Edit: Also, inserting a limit into polymorph:
The caster must have detailed knoweledge of the selected form (appropriet Knoweledge check, DC 15+critter's HD; shouldn't be too hard, as Kaylin has a +12 modifier to each knoweledge check - she makes a 5 HD critter on a roll of 8 or better, 10 HD critter on 13 or better, 13 HD critter on a roll of 16 or better)

and noting a limit that's already there that I missed earlier:

SRD, Spells, Alter Self
A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.


and

SRD, Spells, Polymorph
This spell functions like alter self...


- so no 12 sneak attacks a round with 12 heads; you are limited to your three iterative BAB attacks, at those BAB amounts (11/6/1, for Kibin) modified by the new ability scores.

[Violist]

Bleh. Guess polymorph won't be quite as useful, kibin... get used to being a wolf unless I have a spare round http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[douglas]

Can I change my character? I've decided I'd much rather play this guy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) than my current character http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif.








Just kidding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif. My favorite quote from that thread is "XP is for wimps with no universe shattering power." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Just goes to show that no matter how overpowered you think someone's character is, there's always something much worse out there somewhere - unless, of course, someone actually managed to sneak Pun-Pun into your campaign before you could forbid it.

Anyway, we're playing at 3:00 Eastern time tomorrow, correct?

[NullAshton]

I guess so. That's noon PST for all of you western type people.

[Violist]

Well, I'll try to get enough sleep so I'm not 20 minutes late or however much I was last time :/

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Can I change my character? I've decided I'd much rather play this guy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801) than my current character http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif.


Actually, he comes pre-forbidden; I don't have access to Serpant Kingdoms, and thus the creature and ability simply don't exist in my campaign.

Even if I did, he would find he had difficulties when a very, very large cow fell out of the sky on top of his head to reclaim it's cheese while he was still working on building up. It's the only sane way to deal with that kind of thing, you know?

[Jack Simth]

Server online (and I'm awake this time!)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'Awake'? What is this 'Awake' of which you speak?

[Jack Simth]

Server crashed while I was away at dinner - restarted.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; lots of plot at the end, make sure to read the log (hopefully attached)

1 Retriever dismantaled, CR 11, 390 xp each for Derrel, Jason, Elorin, and Kaylin; 225 xp for Kibin.
1 Maralith killed, CR 17, 3120 xp each for Derrel, Jason, Elorin, and Kaylin; 1800 xp for Kibin.
1 twice double Half-Dragon Troll, Advanced, CR 18, 4680 xp each for Derrel, Jason, Elorin, and Kaylin; 2700 xp for Kibin.

Lots of loot, too, and a spirit bonded to Derrel's sword.

And 2000 xp to everyone for traps overcome and plot points past.

Which gets Jason up a level... hmm.... also Derrel, and anyone else in the party that isn't a special case (Kibin) and hasn't spent XP on items.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... new feat for Jason.... what to take... what to take.... leadership for a barbarian friend to possess and equip (and spellcast through, for things requiring expensive MC or focuses)? Heighten Spell, to increase DC's? Hmm.... worry about it when I'm a little more awake....

[douglas]

Well now, that's a lot of xp! That puts me over the mark for 14th level with 3198 to spare. Will we have some downtime next session for crafting/hiring crafters to spend our loot? Or will we have to settle for seeing what we can get with trade-ins?

[Jack Simth]

Oh, Ye Olde Shoppe of Magicke has a portal to a quick-time plane they let crafters use, both their own crafters and others who are willing to part with 100 gp (it's a permanent portal.... doesn't cost them much) that's highly regulated to the point where crafting is ALL that happens there.

Shucks, one could probably convince Jason to come along, and help craft scrolls of spells the Wizard doesn't know yet.... long as it doesn't cost Jason anything....

[douglas]

Quite a handy little place they've got there. I will definitely be making use of it just as soon as we get back there and figure out how much my share of the loot is. Going by the wealth by level table, I should have about 40000 to spend.

Let's see, now what should I get for my new spells known? I get to pick one 4th, one 5th, one 6th, and three 7th level spells, and switch out any one spell of 5th level or lower. So many choices...

Edit: Can this plane also be used for copying spells from scrolls to a spellbook?

[Jack Simth]

Ummm... sure.

Careful, though - you need to bring rations for the trip, and the time you are there (assuming you still eat food... unlike, say, Jason, who is Undead, and Elorin - your character, Douglas - who has a Ring of Sustenence.)

[NullAshton]

Meh, if I was still a kobold I would multiclass into a sorcerer... I think Kaylin knows to let me handle the chests from now on. As for the axe... I think the negative levels are only given when you wield it in your hands, not if you carry it around. And the negative levels are only given when you touch it. As for the alignment.. I wonder if it's possible to use a helmet of opposite alignment on it.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Meh, if I was still a kobold I would multiclass into a sorcerer... I think Kaylin knows to let me handle the chests from now on. As for the axe... I think the negative levels are only given when you wield it in your hands, not if you carry it around. And the negative levels are only given when you touch it.

It's actually quite clearly spelled out in the rules... but I ain't sayin. Not until someone passes an appropriet Knoweledge roll, at least.
NullAshton said:
As for the alignment.. I wonder if it's possible to use a helmet of opposite alignment on it.

... assuming it worked, for the moment, that would just make it LG, so only the Paladin could use it without repercussions... and intelligent items don't like to share....

[douglas]

I just lucked out on rolling my hp for the level up - see attached screenshot.

[Jack Simth]

Well, Jason rolled a 3.... but it's hard to hurt him, so it doesn't much matter.

Congrats.

Hmm... leadership, or metamagic...

Well... Jason could you some body....

Yeah.... go with leadership... and a kind interpertation of ECL/leadership...

Nah ... too much work ... Improved Initiative... now that's tastier.

[douglas]

Assuming nothing important happens very early next session to prevent it, could we go ahead and get everything identified and the total loot value totalled up here so we can start planning our purchases/crafting? We were going to analyze all the magic items the next morning anyway, we can dump the gems at the same shop as last time, and I'm sure between Gather Info and Kaylin's Knowledge skills we can find a good place to sell the rest. Note that we'd identify the axe too, as Analyze Dweomer doesn't require touching it.

Are we going to count the rather drastic increase in the value of Derrel's sword (52500 gp) out of his share of the loot?

What, if any, are the limits on what Ye Olde Shoppe of Magicke has available for sale or hired crafting/upgrading?

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Assuming nothing important happens very early next session to prevent it, could we go ahead and get everything identified and the total loot value totalled up here so we can start planning our purchases/crafting?
We were going to analyze all the magic items the next morning anyway, we can dump the gems at the same shop as last time, and I'm sure between Gather Info and Kaylin's Knowledge skills we can find a good place to sell the rest. Note that we'd identify the axe too, as Analyze Dweomer doesn't require touching it.


I suppose we could do that now, yes....
Let's see....
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Maralith treasure
art
ancient calendar, embellished with turquoise (862.7 gp)
bizarre idol, made of serpentine (587.1 gp)
black velvet mask with numerous lapis lazuli gems (135.2 gp)
carved bone statuette (9.4 gp)
carved harp of exotic wood with jade inlay and emerald gems (457.8 gp)
ceremonial electrum dagger with a star ruby in the pommel (938.3 gp)
ceremonial silver dagger with a star sapphire in the pommel (741.5 gp)
ceremonial silver dagger with golden yellow topaz in the pommel (375.7 gp)
chased silver jewel coffer with dryad scene (86.1 gp)
choker, wrought silver, with a small sapphire pendant (93.7 gp)
choker, wrought silver, with a small sapphire pendant (941 gp)
cloth of gold vestments (166.8 gp)
coronet, wrought silver and gold, of illithid origin (1,538.5 gp)
crystal flagon, polished smooth (131.2 gp)
elaborate ship in a bottle (2,112.2 gp)
golden flagon, intricately decorated, with a long emerald dominating the neck (2,725.6 gp)
golden phoenix cloak pin with garnets (993.2 gp)
hairpins, gilded, with sard stones (437.4 gp)
large gold ring, curlicue motif, with a claw holding a large round alexandrite gem (1,185.1 gp)
large, well-done wool tapestry, depicting a pastoral scene (180.4 gp)
necklace of ancient pierced coins (654.5 gp)
oaken staff, shod with meteoric iron, and smoky quartz gems set in the head (1,021.3 gp)
ornate helmet (570.2 gp)
pirate's hook, mithril, with gold-plated stump set with golden sapphire stones (746.2 gp)
platinum flask inlaid with gold and silver designs (1,481.9 gp)
silver and steel slave-girl outfit (312.3 gp)
silver comb with moonstones (305 gp)
silver locket with platinum filigree depicting a rose (588.7 gp)
silver-plated greataxe with chrysoberyl jewel in the hilt (564.2 gp)
small painting, a pastoral scene (627.4 gp)
small painting, a pastoral scene (280.2 gp)
small, intricately beaded pouch (70.6 gp)
wrought gold anklet (1,069.7 gp)
wrought gold eating utensils (69.8 gp)
coin
7,435 gold coins (7,435 gp)
ring
ring of invisibility (20,000 gp)
scroll
divine (1,450 gp)
Cure Serious Wounds (l3, cl5)
Discern Lies (l4, cl7)
Water Walk (l3, cl5)
wand
Summon Monster IV (l4, cl7) (7 charges) (2,940 gp)
curse: item actually has a completely different effect (Secure Shelter)
with a small engraving of some animal
wondrous item
necklace of prayer beads (healing) (29 semiprecious stones) (10,000 gp)
something provides a clue to its function
weapon
dwarven waraxe +2 (25,830 gp)
Int: 15 (2)
Wis: 14 (2)
Cha: 16 (3)
Ego: 12
Communication: speech
Alignment: chaotic evil
Languages:
common
elven
orc
'locate object' in 120-ft. radius
'haste' (self only, 10 rounds) (1 per day)
sheds light in a 20-foot radius (as a torch)
nunchaku +1 (2,302 gp)
-------------------
Total Value: 93,017.9 gp
</pre><hr />
34 art pieces to evaluate, 6 magic items. One casting of Detect Magic to sort, 1 of Analize Dewomer to identify, and 34 gp of hiring evaluations.


douglas said:
Are we going to count the rather drastic increase in the value of Derrel's sword (52500 gp) out of his share of the loot?


Well... I dropped that on Derrel for the simple reason that when looking over the new character sheets, I had been rather remiss on handing out treasure; Derrel was still running at only a little over 11th starting capital, and the newer characters were coming in with 13th; so I worked out roughly what the difference was, and selected the added abilities based on that. It's fine for Kibin to be a bit behind on wealth, as he has two extra HD (pretty good HD, too - full Bab, good Fort and Ref saves), and wealth doesn't matter near so much for Jason as it does for others (granted, he could probably use an Amulet of Resistance or something to help with his saves, but he's immune to a good many effects that require them, and he already has +10 Deflection to AC, +4 Dex to AC, +3 AC from a Monk's Belt (+1 belt, +2 Wis), and +4 Shield, +4 Armor when he casts Shield and Mage Armor - his AC already tops out at 35 vs. critters on the Material Plane... and all but 8 of that both touch and constant).
douglas said:
What, if any, are the limits on what Ye Olde Shoppe of Magicke has available for sale or hired crafting/upgrading?

They follow Fungibility ... as adjucated by myself, of course... but not many limits, no.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
...
Total Value: 93,017.9 gp


Let's see, the only thing in there I think we might want to keep is the Ring of Invisibility and the cash. Selling everything else for standard half price gives a total of 60266.45 gp value, and that's assuming the temple we deliver the axe to pays us for the privilege of having the opportunity to redeem it.

The Ring of Blinking, Ring of Aid, and sale price for everything else from the mega-Troll and Oraneormu's chest gives another 48737.5.

The Manual of Gainful Exercise and gems from the previous session add 29648.25 more, assuming we keep the Manual either to use or upgrade eventually.

Add it all up and take off the 34 this time and 12 last time for appraisal services, and that's a total gain of 138606.2 gp for the party, not counting Derrel's sword which was just to make up for the previous lack.

Divided among five party members, the new characters still need another 12-13 thousand or so to meet the starting wealth for 14th level PC's. If Derrel was still stuck around 70k before his sword upgrade, your generosity with treasure has improved immensely, but we're still a little bit behind where we're supposed to be. Of course, this is in large part because we started with minimum 13th level equipment but considerably more than the minimum 13th level xp, but it's still something that should be considered. I can't really comment on the status of Derrel, Kibin, and Jason's wealth, as I don't know what they've got.


Jack Simth said:

douglas said:
What, if any, are the limits on what Ye Olde Shoppe of Magicke has available for sale or hired crafting/upgrading?

They follow Fungibility ... as adjucated by myself, of course... but not many limits, no.


Hmm, are they capable of increasing the maximum strength bonus of a composite bow or transferring its enchantment to a new bow? I probably won't want to do this right away, but eventually I will upgrade my belt to +6 strength and (pretty far down the line) get a +4 or +5 Manual, and I'll want to be able to get the bonus damage from that.

Oh, and Violist don't forget to spend skill points on Knowledge (Arcana). You get 7 per level right now, and 10 of them over this level and the next need to go into Knowledge (Arcana) in order to qualify for Archmage.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:

Jack Simth said:
...
Total Value: 93,017.9 gp


Let's see, the only thing in there I think we might want to keep is the Ring of Invisibility and the cash. Selling everything else for standard half price gives a total of 60266.45 gp value, and that's assuming the temple we deliver the axe to pays us for the privilege of having the opportunity to redeem it.


Not saying at this point; needs to be RP'd when we get to it.
douglas said:
The Ring of Blinking, Ring of Aid, and sale price for everything else from the mega-Troll and Oraneormu's chest gives another 48737.5.


You may find you have difficulties convincing Kibin to part with the Ring of Aid.... it gives him back several of his skills.
douglas said:
The Manual of Gainful Exercise and gems from the previous session add 29648.25 more, assuming we keep the Manual either to use or upgrade eventually.


... gems were sold during the 9/17/2005 session, towards the end, shortly before logging off, and were mentioned as sold in the summery on the 17th:


Jack Simth said:
7 dire wolves killed, 1 escaped, one demon slain; 600 xp for Kibin (you are ECL 15 in an otherwise ECL 13 party, facing off against a CR 14 encounter), 1170 xp each for the rest of the party members (Jason, Derrel, Kaylin, Elorin); <u>treasure in the form of a reward from the mayor for taking down the dire wolves - 429.65 gp to each player (sold gems), except for Kaylin, who pulled some gems from the pool and hired some jewelery (however, she now sports an exquisite gold hair comb with an Elbaite gem and a delicate silver neclace with a black opal).</u>

Also, we have the fate of a +1 Manual of Gainful Exercise (from the mayor's chest; market value: 27,500 gp) to debate - do we use it on a party member to add a +1 Inherent Bonus to Str, or do we sell it for 13,750 gp?




douglas said:
Add it all up and take off the 34 this time and 12 last time for appraisal services, and that's a total gain of 138606.2 gp for the party, not counting Derrel's sword which was just to make up for the previous lack.

Divided among five party members, the new characters still need another 12-13 thousand or so to meet the starting wealth for 14th level PC's. If Derrel was still stuck around 70k before his sword upgrade, your generosity with treasure has improved immensely, but we're still a little bit behind where we're supposed to be. Of course, this is in large part because we started with minimum 13th level equipment but considerably more than the minimum 13th level xp, but it's still something that should be considered. I can't really comment on the status of Derrel, Kibin, and Jason's wealth, as I don't know what they've got.


Jack Simth said:

douglas said:
What, if any, are the limits on what Ye Olde Shoppe of Magicke has available for sale or hired crafting/upgrading?

They follow Fungibility ... as adjucated by myself, of course... but not many limits, no.


Hmm, are they capable of increasing the maximum strength bonus of a composite bow or transferring its enchantment to a new bow? I probably won't want to do this right away, but eventually I will upgrade my belt to +6 strength and (pretty far down the line) get a +4 or +5 Manual, and I'll want to be able to get the bonus damage from that.


They won't mess with the physical stuff much (other than adjusting the leather straps and whatnot to fit a suit of Platemail to a new, same-size and same basic-shape user), but they can transfer - it just costs what you would get for selling it outright - and so is usually only worthwhile for rather unique items, such as intelligent ones you wish to keep for non-commerce reasons.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
You may find you have difficulties convincing Kibin to part with the Ring of Aid.... it gives him back several of his skills.


Which is why I counted it at full value instead of expected sale price. He can keep it, but it should count towards his share of the loot.

Jack Simth said:
... gems were sold during the 9/17/2005 session, towards the end, shortly before logging off, and were mentioned as sold in the summery on the 17th:


I only counted them because I was adding up the total gp gain for all the time I and Violist have been playing so I could compare it to the 40000 difference between starting wealth for 13th and 14th level characters.

Jack Simth said:
They won't mess with the physical stuff much (other than adjusting the leather straps and whatnot to fit a suit of Platemail to a new, same-size and same basic-shape user), but they can transfer - it just costs what you would get for selling it outright - and so is usually only worthwhile for rather unique items, such as intelligent ones you wish to keep for non-commerce reasons.


So I might as well sell and buy new for the bow as far as what this shop can do is concerned. Would it be worthwhile to search for an expert bowmaker to do the job? I'm not really sure whether strengthening an existing bow would be possible or not through mundane means, but I think my character would have some knowledge on the subject as a long-time expert with a bow and follower of a deity that favors the longbow. Of course, the existence of magic in D&amp;D should make near anything possible, but finding such a craftsman might be a bit harder.

[NullAshton]

My share of the loot! You need a rogue! Otherwise, you'd be stuck at the first mechanical trap you come across, and we'd still be trying to open that chest. So no, it shouldn't count as my share of the loot. It's for the party.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Which is why I counted it at full value instead of expected sale price. He can keep it, but it should count towards his share of the loot.



NullAshton said:
My share of the loot! You need a rogue! Otherwise, you'd be stuck at the first mechanical trap you come across, and we'd still be trying to open that chest. So no, it shouldn't count as my share of the loot. It's for the party.


There may be some interesting party interactions in the next session....
douglas said:

I only counted them because I was adding up the total gp gain for all the time I and Violist have been playing so I could compare it to the 40000 difference between starting wealth for 13th and 14th level characters.


So a few more double/triple treasure critter... hmm...
douglas said:
So I might as well sell and buy new for the bow as far as what this shop can do is concerned. Would it be worthwhile to search for an expert bowmaker to do the job? I'm not really sure whether strengthening an existing bow would be possible or not through mundane means, but I think my character would have some knowledge on the subject as a long-time expert with a bow and follower of a deity that favors the longbow. Of course, the existence of magic in D&amp;D should make near anything possible, but finding such a craftsman might be a bit harder.

I suppose a quest could be made from it ... find the anchient elven zen bowmaster ... convince him to work your bow ... do the chore he wants done as payment ... and find the material he needs to hold the enchantment whilst he works on the actual bow... yes... could be done, when the time comes.

[Violist]

Arrgh, I'm not used to chests being that dangerous... Next time we're in town I'm buying a frying pan and sticking it on my head.

That's some really juicy loot we've got going there... a lot of decorative stuff...

I added Greater Teleport and Waves of Exhaustion to my spellbook for levelling up, but I heard rumour someone had a Teleport scroll - if that's true and I could use that, I could ditch Greater Teleport if we think it's not worth it.

Only got +2 to HP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif All the way up to 51 now. Also put a bunch of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana).... I really want the Archmage thing, if I can make little holes in spell areas of effect...

Hey, cool, the axe speaks elven... we could have a little chaotic moment without having to get rid of Derrel http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Violist]

There may be some interesting party interactions in the next session....



Lookin' forward to it

[douglas]

NullAshton said:
My share of the loot! You need a rogue! Otherwise, you'd be stuck at the first mechanical trap you come across, and we'd still be trying to open that chest. So no, it shouldn't count as my share of the loot. It's for the party.


Well, ok, I'll let it pass as a special case. But if you want the Ring of Blinking, that is definitely counting towards your share of the loot.

Just for the record, leaving the Ring of Aid out of the calculations puts me and Violist another 1600 gp behind the curve.


Violist said:
but I heard rumour someone had a Teleport scroll - if that's true and I could use that, I could ditch Greater Teleport if we think it's not worth it.


Yes, I do have a scroll of Teleport, bought specifically to give to you because you ran out of money for spells when creating your character. Now that we have a reason to travel long distance quickly, assuming a suitable temple can't be found nearby, I'll probably hand it over free of charge with a comment along the lines of "Oh, so that's why I had a strange inspired impulse to pick this up on the way out here." Of course, if you volunteer to pay me for it I'll accept graciously, but it's all for a good cause.

You'll probably want to pick up Delayed Blast Fireball at some point, but it might not be worth it until your caster level is a little higher - the real reason to learn it is not for the optional delay, but for the higher cap on damage dice. Mage's Sword could be good. Banishment would be very useful against demons if we could put together a large array of anti-demon items. Reverse Gravity can be fun. There's always Limited Wish, of course.

Violist said:
Only got +2 to HP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif All the way up to 51 now.


You city-bred softy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif. All the more reason to stay in the back, just like almost any sane wizard.

Violist said:
Also put a bunch of ranks in Knowledge (Arcana).... I really want the Archmage thing, if I can make little holes in spell areas of effect...


Oh, Archmages can do much more than just that, though they can only learn one special ability per level. It's Mastery of Shaping that you want for that effect. Mastery of Elements is another good one, though a tad expensive with an 8th-level spell slot as the price. Then there's Spell Power - +1 to penetrate Spell Resistance, +1 damage dice on all your blasting spells (up to the cap), etc. I think Spell Power can even be taken multiple times for another +1 bonus each time.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I was pretty sure the ring of blinking went to my character, and he'd like to keep it.

[douglas]

Whoever gets it, it's coming out of someone's share of the loot. Whether that's Derrel or Kibin is up to them to argue about.

[NullAshton]

Wait, ring of invisibility? MINE!

[NullAshton]

MUWAAHAAHAA! I AM INVISIBLE NOW! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Oh wait. It cancels if you attack. Okay, we sell the ring then, for moolah...

[NullAshton]

Mastery of shaping is just a 6th level spell slot. You're thinking of Mastery of Elements.

[douglas]

douglas said:
Mastery of Elements is another good one, though a tad expensive with an 8th-level spell slot as the price.

[NullAshton]

Ah. Whoopsy.

[Violist]

Hmm, so I'm at the same XP as Douglas (who's he playing? I forgot)?

Also, for the sake of roleplaying, Kaylin would like some shiny things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

And yes, while I would get lots of goodies with Archmage, first thing I'm doing is getting able to blast stuff without killing the party in the process.

I'm not a city-born type! Bah. (well, I am, but Kaylin isn't) We just get horrible HP rolls. I'm going to stay fairly neutral about the loot division, but unless any of you have plans on chokers for your male characters (eww)...

Banishment sounds great against all the demons we've been battling, and Reverse Gravity sounds like it has some very evil uses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif I'll volunteer to pay for the Teleport scroll, I am a decent character (even if I consort with evil axes)

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Let's see, the only thing in there I think we might want to keep is the Ring of Invisibility and the cash.

You might want to consider keeping the Payer Beads (Healing), as I believe Derrel is the only one who can remove disease and remove Blindness/Deafness... also, it's always handy for someone to have command-word healing for in the middle of combat.... especially those fragile caster types....
Each special bead can be used once per day, except for the bead of summons, which works only once and then becomes nonmagical. The beads of blessing, smiting, and wind walking function as spell trigger items; the beads of karma and summons can be activated by any character capable of casting divine spells. The owner need not hold or wear the strand of prayer beads in any specific location, as long as he carries it somewhere on his person.

Healing's trigger mechanisim is unspecified, and thus defaults to command word, useable by anyone....

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
You might want to consider keeping the Payer Beads (Healing), as I believe Derrel is the only one who can remove disease and remove Blindness/Deafness...


I have no need of such puny spells http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif. I have Heal:

The SRD said:
Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the Target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.


Granted, that is a bit overkill in some situations, but I am at least capable of dealing with such problems.

Jack Simth said:
also, it's always handy for someone to have command-word healing for in the middle of combat.... especially those fragile caster types....

Healing's trigger mechanisim is unspecified, and thus defaults to command word, useable by anyone....


Hmm, maybe Kaylin should get it.

Violist said:
Hmm, so I'm at the same XP as Douglas (who's he playing? I forgot)?


Actually, you're a bit ahead of me in XP. I spent some on crafting items. Elorin's XP + the 2880 spent on crafting is 97078.


Violist said:
Also, for the sake of roleplaying, Kaylin would like some shiny things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif


As long as you buy them out of the loot pool, go right ahead.


Violist said:
And yes, while I would get lots of goodies with Archmage, first thing I'm doing is getting able to blast stuff without killing the party in the process.


That is definitely the best of the goodies available with Archmage.


Violist said:
I'm not a city-born type! Bah. (well, I am, but Kaylin isn't) We just get horrible HP rolls.


Well, you certainly haven't been acting like Kaylin's used to roughing it like adventurers typically do. All that talk about beds and having slept two nights in the wagon... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Violist said:
I'm going to stay fairly neutral about the loot division, but unless any of you have plans on chokers for your male characters (eww)...


I'm pretty sure you will almost always have uncontested claim on any artwork we find. Now, if we find a particularly masterfully made longbow of extraordinary beauty, Elorin might make an exception, but I doubt you'd be very interested in that kind of ornamentation anyway.

Violist said:
Banishment sounds great against all the demons we've been battling, and Reverse Gravity sounds like it has some very evil uses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif I'll volunteer to pay for the Teleport scroll, I am a decent character (even if I consort with evil axes)


The best part about Reverse Gravity is:

The SRD said:
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: No


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Of course, if you can manage to get enough items distasteful to the subject, Banishment is functionally the same in that respect...

[Violist]

Cool, I'm going to buy some pretties next session.


Well, you certainly haven't been acting like Kaylin's used to roughing it like adventurers typically do. All that talk about beds and having slept two nights in the wagon...



Yeah, well, in the mystical happy elven lands, people have these things called mattresses... wagons are splintery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[douglas]

So pack a mattress in your Bag of Holding if you have to. At the very least get a bedroll and a blanket, standard adventuring gear.

[NullAshton]

I think that Elorin's longbow would be distasteful. As well as maybe the prayer beads... Get some holy water!

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... and the party level has reached 14.9 ... close to 15 ... time to up the BBEG again....

Edit:
BBEG upped.
Also, as we haven't run a session with the new level yet, swapped out Jason's Improved Initiative for Spell Penetration, as he has been having difficulty with SR lately...

[Violist]

Are we allowed to swap our feats when we level up? Kaylin's been having trouble with SR lately too... I don't want my cool high-level spells to not work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Jack Simth]

Not really; level up decisions aren't decided until the session after the level gain; with a +5 Level Adjustment, Jason hit 9th when most everyone else hit 14th, and so picked up a feat ... started with Improved Initiative, but hasn't really been having a problem with that, so set it for Spell Penetration, instead.

However, if you have Limited Wish or Wish, and are willing to pay the XP, you can duplicate a Psychic Reformation (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/psionicPowersGtoP.html#psychic-reformation) on yourself and reassign your feats that way (of course, that costs XP....). It won't replace the spells in your spellbook, nor the items you've purchased (it alters your mind, not your possessions), but changing your feat and skill selection is within it's purview, as is changing a Sorceror's spells known list. Careful though; it costs XP; on yourself, the 300 xp for limited wish will permit you to re-choose 6 levels worth (300/50=6); on another, that would be 12 (but both would pay 300 xp; (300+300)/50=12); more than that, and you need more XP - re-choosing 14 levels worth of stuff would cost 700 xp, all told, by that means.

Doesn't work on Jason, though, as it's a mind-affecting effect.

Edit: fixed link - hopefully....

[douglas]

300 xp isn't much at this level, and Limited Wish is one of your options for new spells for the level up. Assuming your feats are listed in the order you took them on your character sheet, separated by normal and wizard bonus feats, you could go back far enough on the minimum xp cost to switch out Improved Counterspell, which you haven't used at all yet, for Spell Penetration. Another 150 xp, and you could also swap out Improved Initiative, making Greater Spell Penetration achievable or taking the second Spell Focus feat required for Archmage. A total of 600 xp would be enough to swap out Iron Will, Improved Initiative, and Improved Counterspell for Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, and retroactively move some skill points into Knowledge (Arcana) at the same time, giving you +4 on checks to penetrate SR and allowing you to take Archmage at level 15, instead of waiting another level to get the final feat and Knowledge (Arcana) skill ranks.

Hmm, while we're on this topic, I've never understood why things like Spell Focus and Spell Penetration aren't options for the Wizard bonus feats. They are directly related to improving spellcasting ability, so it seems to me that the same logic that puts metamagic on the list should also add them to the list.

[NullAshton]

XP is a valuable commodity, better not waste it. Use gold instead, it's much less expendable.

[douglas]

I don't think 2-4% of a level is excessive for the ability to do something like this, especially if it brings Archmage a level closer.

Edit: I just noticed, this is the 1000th post in this thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif