OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

[NullAshton]

1000th reply! Cookie, please.

[Violist]

You're right, and if I can get Archmage one level sooner... I'm not sure what you mean by retroactively putting skill ranks in Knowledge (Arcana).

By the way, douglas, it's creepy reading that post and thinking "hey, that's exactly what I thought I'd do..." And 300 XP is what, 1/3 of a random encounter?

Jack Smith: ahh, I understand now. Thanks for the enlightenment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[douglas]

Violist said:
You're right, and if I can get Archmage one level sooner... I'm not sure what you mean by retroactively putting skill ranks in Knowledge (Arcana).


Psychic Reformation allows reassignment of skill points as well as feats. So, at the same time as you're swapping out feats, you could, for example, move the 6 skill points you spent on Move Silently to Knowledge (Arcana). You could also take them away from your 8 points in Gather Information (both it and Move Silently are cross class, in case you're wondering why I'm saying 6 and 8 instead of 3 and 4), or one of your Knowledge skills.

Violist said:
By the way, douglas, it's creepy reading that post and thinking "hey, that's exactly what I thought I'd do..." And 300 XP is what, 1/3 of a random encounter?


There's not much room for flexibility in this if you want to both satisfy the Archmage prereqs asap and get bonuses to SR penetration, so it's not really surprising that we'd come up with the same set of swaps. 300 XP is indeed very close to 1/3 of a "typical" encounter at our level, though if you want to swap out all three feats it'll take 600 XP. One CR 14 monster's worth of XP divided among 5 party members gives 840 XP for 14th level characters.

Edit: Here's a working link to a Psychic Reformation (http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) power description, since Jack's doesn't work.

[Violist]

Psychic Reformation is a psionic thingy though... I'm totally blank on the rules concerning this, but how would I cast it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Limited Wish can duplicate spells and psionic powers.

[Jack Simth]

Limited Wish

Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S, XP Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: See text Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
* Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
* Duplicate any other spell of 4th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
* Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
* Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a –7 penalty on its next saving throw.

A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal (but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell). When a limited wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component.

XP Cost: 300 XP or more (see above).



COMBINING PSIONIC AND MAGICAL EFFECTS
The default rule for the interaction of psionics and magic is simple: Powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability. This is known as psionics-magic transparency.



So, under transparency, a Power is a spell, for most practical purposes; Psychic Reformation is Psion/Wilder 4, so even if it qualifies as Prohibited, it's still fair game for Limited Wish.

[Violist]

Bloody clever that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Jack Simth]

Also provides an in-game way of retrofitting most characters for little optimization problems ... but at a cost that won't usually be paid frivolously.

[NullAshton]

Too bad it's wish which can restore my form, not limited wish.

[Violist]

Maybe if you're good, in a few levels... actually, though, I think I like you as a wolf better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[NullAshton]

Ring of wishing is all I need. Or a luck blade, that works too.

[Violist]

It'd be funny if we got a ring of wishing and someone else used it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

And then I attack them, savagly. I do have more hit die, after all.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'Gee, I wish Kibin were a fish'.

- Kibin expires.

[NullAshton]

Bah. Without me you would have perished at that magical fire trap.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Not nessasarily. It's the TPK principle. Most GM's don't want a TPK - That ruins everybodies fun, tends to derail the campain and some people might leave.

Therefore, the challenges faced by a party are generally tailored to the party - This means that lack of a rogue means traps are downgraded.

Of course, if we've got a pure Gamist GM, all that reasoning is pretty much worthless.

It's like that 'How many random encounters do you get?'

[Violist]

That went way over my head.. TPK?

[douglas]

Total Party Kill. Happens when the DM misjudges an encounter or the PC's get really unlucky and the entire party dies.

On the subject of number of random encounters, see this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=145).

[Violist]

Nice comic... now can we trust it to hold now that the GM has read it?

[Jack Simth]

The Order Of The Stick? Read it regularly, ever since ... I think I picked it up when Narf first posted his comic thread.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Here's a whole line of reasoning which gets us to what we're facing. I have no idea if that's what Jack thought; it's merely an intelectual excercise.

Right. Now, the campaign started with a ghost and a paladin. The ghosts' strength is fighting anything corpereal, with a minor weakness against things with high Will saves and grapple modifiers. My character is a paladin - Best against evil creatures.

Now, a GM can always make evil NPC's, but it's easier just to use pre-made monsters. Since paladins are champions of spiritual good, the naturally opposed monsters are undead and demons.

Then we picked up a rogue - Ashtons' character. Undead are generally immune to critical hits, so even a low-level undead would still leave 1/3 of the party pretty much innefective. (Which would change if Ashton picks up an anti-evil weapon - Natural attacks can be enchanted). However, the current situation leaves demons as a good moderate challenge to the group.

Then, enter one mage - And one cleric. See where I'm going? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Of course, we probably will face other threats - But this is merely an intellectual example of how to calculate a 'Standard threat type'. It's also not the only possible style of GM'ing - Some GM's perfer a mix of encounters, some of which the party is unprepared for, by nature of class.

The purist Gamist GM, to explain, simply puts threats and plots down, and leaves it completly up to the players to avoid TPK. If the party accidently walks into the dragons' lair while the dragon is there, it's entirely up to them to avoid being toasted.

The Storytelling GM is the other extreme. If the party accidently runs into a dragons' lair at first level, it's because it's plot-related, and they won't get toasted unless they do something like try to steal treasure. And if it's actually not plot related, but an accident of where the party choose to go, it'll be plot related rather quickly.

There's more to it than that; for one thing, most GM's (Me, for example), seem to fall somewhere in the middle. And those aren't the only style of GM'ing.

[Jack Simth]

Shush! Stop giving away the plot before I'm done spinning it yet!

Actually, though, the main reason for Jason's build is a bail-out character; regardless of how bad it gets, he's only perma-gone by DM fiat (Core, it'd take an evil cleric of two levels below twice his ECL to get rid of him for good... and that's likely going to be able to take out the entire party by itself anyway, as it would be level 26 at this point; could also be done with certain save-or-effectively-die Sor/Wiz spells at just a little over the level the party is currently at). At present, he's past his peak level range - about the only ability he has that couldn't be duplicated by a fairly straightforward Sorceror 14 build with an eye towards those abilities would be the Rejuvination, and such a sorceror would have many spells at his disposal (with a higher caster level, and higher level spells) than Jason has available, as well as better saves all around.

Of course, if I accidentally TPK the party, Jason will come back on his own, and perhaps be able to rectify the situation to a degree.

[NullAshton]

Yay roleplaying tomorrow. Anyway, any chance I could try DMing a campaign? Don't have one yet, but suggestions would be nice, for when we do finish this campaign.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

http://craphound.com/images/wowdanddad.jpg

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Yay roleplaying tomorrow. Anyway, any chance I could try DMing a campaign? Don't have one yet, but suggestions would be nice, for when we do finish this campaign.


My biggest suggestion would be figure out what you want to run:

What power level do you prefer playing? Minimum, low, mid, mid-high, high, or epic?
(Translates to character levels: Starting Level (start at 1), Low-level (2-5), Mid level (6-10), Mid-high (10-15), high (16-20), or Epic (21+))
Do you like variant rules (e.g., Unearthed Arcana stuff - Gestalt characters, variant classes, generic classes, et cetera)
Do you like bizzare player races (e.g., Ghosts, Half-Celestials, Half-Dragons, Half-Fiends, et cetera)?
Do you like lots of wealth (high or low magic, basically)?
Do you want to play the good guy or the bad guy (As the DM, you play the villian - if you want to be the good guy, run an Evil campaign; bad guy, run a Good campaign)
How much complexity do you like? (also influences starting level - it's much more complex to create a 15th level character or monster than a 5th level character or monster)
How confident are you in your ability to track things? There's usually much less to track for a CR 1-5 critter than there is for a CR 15-20 critter.

Answer such questions as the above, and then figure out your campaign. The DM must enjoy the game as well, otherwise, what's the point?

Edit:
As an example, the currently ECL 14 campaing I'm running started at ECL 11... because I wanted to try out a character concept (Jason). If you have a character concept you would like to examine, a villian of a campaign or a support/bailout character with the party can accomplish it when you are the GM.

After this campaing, I'm considering a 10th-12th gestalt scenario where we try to take down the Terrasque; Cheese strongly encouraged; one sample cheese build: Wiz/Half-Elf Paragon 3, Wiz/Human Paragon 3, Wiz/Fighter 1, Wiz/Loremaster 3; casts as a Wiz 16. One more gestalt level, and he could cast as a Wiz/18 (could also be done with Sorceror, equally easily; could also drop a Half-Elf paragon level, swap for a Paladin level, swish the Fighter level around to be contingent to the swapped level and swap it for Paladin - with two Paladin levels, gain Cha to saves).

[NullAshton]

Or a psiblade/pyrokinesis. Ooo, flaming mind blades. Probally level 1, with quick level advancment. Variant, maybe, if it's balanced enough. Weird player races, sure why not, just expect to get odd glances. Lots of wealth, maybe average. I want my PCs to be good : ) And for complexity, I'm a subscriber of the KISS method, but a little complexity in the plot can't hurt.

[Jack Simth]

All right, you've got your basic campaign level.

Now, roll 3d10, and consult the following lists:

1:Damsel
2:Prince
3:Pauper
4:King
5:Princess
6:Quenn
7:Baroness
8:Dragon
9:Druid
10:Wizard

1:Kills
2:Eats
3:Kidnaps
4:Rescues
5:Inconvinences
6:Subverts
7:Controls
8:Replaces
9:Unleashes
10:Marries

1:Damsel
2:Prince
3:Pauper
4:King
5:Princess
6:Quenn
7:Baroness
8:Dragon
9:Druid
10:Wizard

Then make a plot out of the three selected words (or fill in your own list; that works too); these are seeds; for example:
2,9,9:

Prince Unleashes Druid

Then spin a situation off it:

Let's see... how could a prince unleash a druid? Perhaps...

Local Prince of the realm decides he wants to boost the farmland under his control, so he can support a larger army to either conquer his neighbors or keep from being conquered himself. To do this, he cuts/burns down an ancient forest bordering the lands he controls.

This forest "just happened" to be held sacred by some powerful (read: 1 to 3 levels above the party) Druid or other who takes offense, and takes revenge (packs of wolves attacking the villagers trying to plant crops, locust swarms eating established crops, that kind of thing; doesn't matter that the Druid doesn't have the right spells on his list to cause it directly - perhaps he trains wild wolves to attack, rather than summoning them (although he may do that, too), breeds the locusts by planting the right kind of plants and carefully placing grasshoppers in them at strategic locations, et cetera - DM artistic license, here).

The Prince, seeing his country getting severely hurt, calls out for help.

This is where the party comes in, to react as they may. Of course, at first, they only hear the prince's side (he's the one that called them... but you could reverse that) that something is eating away at the locals (wolf packs, locust swarms, that kind of thing) with no particular reason as to why now. If they dig, well and good; if they unthinkingly run and slay, well and good; can run with it either way, really.

Simple example, but you get the idea; if you take the time to make longer lists, you can use larger die - d12's, d20's, even d100's

Note that this is just a simple technique for a creative aid - it's for when you are running a little short of ideas - and that if you have a plot you want, go for it.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

There's a good chance I won't be able to make tommorrows'.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
1:Damsel

2:Eats

1:Damsel



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

You can get some really wierd combinations if you just roll the dice and take whatever comes up with those lists.

As an aside, I'd kind of like to keep going with my existing character. It's much more fun IMO to keep developing the same character for a long period of time than to frequently start over with new characters.

[Jack Simth]

They are seeds, nothing more; the fun comes when you then spin that into a plot:

Damsel A stubles on a book that lists a ritual to gain immortality (actually, vampirism....) and, not caring about others, decides to try it; what's the life of one random virgin (Damsel B) compared to an eternity of youthful beauty and power?

It is, of course, up to the party to intervene before she completes her nefarious plans (assuming a good party; for an evil party, they need to find, capture, and deliver the appropriet girl....)

Some other fun ones:
Prince
Replaces
Princess

Dragon
Marries
King

Narf: Well, I've missed my share of sessions too. I suppose Derrel can be called off for a day of prayer or some such.

[douglas]

Actually, I would expect the evil party's mission to depend entirely on how much Damsel A was willing to offer to hire them compared to how much Damsel B and/or people and organizations opposed to Damsel A were willing to pay. Of course, with an evil party there's always the possibility of trying to swindle both sides...

I can just imagine the party taking a down payment from Damsel A, cornering Damsel B, taking whatever she's willing to give them, coming back to kidnap her anyway, returning to Damsel A's hideout, killing her, stealing her ritual books, and performing the ritual themselves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Violist]

Hehe, I finally got around to reading the log of last session... not used to people roleplaying characters concerned with appearance? I like to give my people a bit of personality... I'm still trying to figure out what another good trait for her would be - probably a total fear of anything affecting her mental abilities.

And I shall use V's excuse... studying the universe makes one a little physically weak. Protect me, big muscular paladin in shining armour http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

GM - nice playing of Kaylin there, it's exactly what I'd have done

[douglas]

Wizard Adventuring Survival 101: Buy, make, find, or steal the best, toughest suit of armor you can find... and put it on the biggest toughest fighter you can find and stick him between you and all danger.

Paraphrased from somewhere I don't remember.

[Violist]

Bwawahahahahaha http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Yeah... by the way, for the sake of roleplaying, I'd like Kaylin to get a dagger for general use - cutting food, etc. Daamge there would be 1d4-1, with a -4 to attack rolls, correct? Mithril would be in keeping with elven racial preferences, at least in my mind.

A bit expensive though... now I have to decide whether it's better to roleplay or make a powerful character, but at 802 GP, it's not an awfully high price... 'course, I'd have to find somewhere to get a masterwork weapon.

In the spells thing, I'm thinking I should acquire Mind Fog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindFog.htm) and Prying Eyes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm) for the sake of searching... and almost certainly Enervation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm).. just imagine.... 2d4 negative levels per round... that'd learn 'em to try to make saving throws... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[douglas]

1d4-1 damage, yes, but wizards are proficient with daggers so no penalty on the attack rolls. Also, OpenRPG will automatically apply the strength penalty to damage, so just enter it as 1d4.

Mithril... what's the point? Even in character, the only real reason to get a mithril dagger would be to show off the fact that you can afford such a thing. Going back to The Lord of the Rings, the origin of both the fictional metal and the "standard" version of High Elves in most fantasy literature today, I don't recall any mention of mithril weapons of any type, while a great deal was made about mithril armor, particularly chainmail. Out of character, the rules provide specific and very useful benefits for mithril armor, but do nothing but halve the weight for everything else.

Hmm, low saving throws + Greater Command: Halt! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandGreater.htm) Or maybe Approach would work better. Muahahahaha!

For searching, we do have a rogue in the party, we could equip him with the ring of invisibility, and I could cast Wind Walk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/windWalk.htm) on him. Heck, it's an hour per level duration, I could cast it on the whole party when we get up in the morning. I could even use Extend Spell to make it last until four hours later the next day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[NullAshton]

Meh, no windwalk for me. Hmmmm, maybe we could start a couple of hours earlier, since we don't have to wait for narf?

[Jack Simth]

Get a masterwork dagger with a Continual Flame spell on the blade - sheath it when you don't want light, carry it when you do; convince people it's a Flaming dagger the rest of the time.....

And server online.

[NullAshton]

Okay, we're waiting on you people now.

[Violist]

Hmm, now where in my mind did I assume mithril foo was an elven thing? The flaming dagger idea is cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Violist]

And there's the disadvantage I was looking for.. absent mindedness.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

So...How's it going?

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; two baddies killed (one CR 14, one CR 16); 2520 Xp each to Derrel, Jason, Elorin, and Kaylin; 1950 for Kibin.

1000 extra XP each for everyone for assorted traps and puzzles dealt with.

Loot hashed out in character; check log, hopefully attached.

[Violist]

Someday I'll deal with a trap by not triggering it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Jack Simth]

Until then, you may want to invest in a ring of feather falling to reduce the impact... or a scroll of feather falling, slip it into your spellbook, and keep a copy prepared at all times....

As for spell research....

Well, I already put the basic options for what Kibin's after in the discussion itself.... propose a spell, and I'll see about assigning a level.

I could also slip something vaugely plot-related in.... a Ring of Polymorph, Continuous, with a set form whenever worn, perhaps....

[Violist]

Ring of Feather Falling sounds awesome... just the sort of thing I need for all these accursed pits.

For the new spell, I like the idea of 2,000 XP drain from the target each casting. As a sort of combination of Permanency and Polymorph would make sense to me... so it'd be something like:

Level 7:

36 hour ritual
Permanent duration (or until subject wishes to change back)
1,000 XP from the target (or 2,000 if wishes to gain abilities of new form)
Changes into any monster valid from Polymorph with up to 15HD (caster level HD)
5,000 gp MC cost (or 10,000 if wishes to gain abilities of new form)

Also, attached are the OpenRPG node and the charsheet for when (if) you want to NPC Kaylin.

[NullAshton]

How about plot related thingie? Like some ritual the sorcerer does to get me back to normal for the ritual he wants to do. Maybe requiring a piece of the monster.

[Jack Simth]

Well... I've already pretty much decided on the path he is going to use to get the memory he's after ... waiting for a day when everyone shows up to run it, however. I have it mostly scripted out, even (doing so will set a clock, however....).

A side plot, though ... hmm ... a different ring ... crafted for Evil's purposes ... but able to be turned towards Good's use ... yes....

He he he....

[NullAshton]

Bah, I'll just let you deal with everything. I've learned not to try to mess with the plot/rules any.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Ring of Feather Falling sounds awesome... just the sort of thing I need for all these accursed pits.


They aren't particularly expensive; only 2,200 gp.
Violist said:
For the new spell, I like the idea of 2,000 XP drain from the target each casting. As a sort of combination of Permanency and Polymorph would make sense to me... so it'd be something like:

Level 7:

36 hour ritual
Permanent duration (or until subject wishes to change back)
1,000 XP from the target (or 2,000 if wishes to gain abilities of new form)
Changes into any monster valid from Polymorph with up to 15HD (caster level HD)
5,000 gp MC cost (or 10,000 if wishes to gain abilities of new form)

Also, attached are the OpenRPG node and the charsheet for when (if) you want to NPC Kaylin.

For not keeping the abilities, that works at 7th; to get the abilities though, you need to start from Shapechange (9th), rather than Polymorph Any Object (8th), and must apply a Permanency modifier to it first (+4), and a one change per casting modifier (-2), for a starting point of 11th; a 100,000 gp Focus, 10,000 gp Material Component, and 2,000 xp drain net a -3, down to 8th; a long ritual (48 hours) would give another -1, for 7th. Could also increase one of the requirements (xp, MC, or Focus cost) by an order of magnitude (x10; 1,000,000 gp focus, 100,000 gp Material Component, 20,000 xp (split however between caster and target), or 480 hours (Forced March rules to continue the casting - keep Elorin on hand for eliminating fatigue and exhastion.... and pick up two Rings of Sustenence - one for caster, one for target)) for an extra -1 to the spell level.

[NullAshton]

Can we just let the sorcerer do it for us?

[Jack Simth]

I've already planned a different route; did you read the session with the CE axe where Jason turned paler and left the room? Nobody's asked him about it yet....

Besides, you may find that four legs are very useful when confronting the BBEG at the ceremony....

[Violist]

Jack Simth said:
For not keeping the abilities, that works at 7th; to get the abilities though, you need to start from Shapechange (9th), rather than Polymorph Any Object (8th), and must apply a Permanency modifier to it first (+4), and a one change per casting modifier (-2), for a starting point of 11th; a 100,000 gp Focus, 10,000 gp Material Component, and 2,000 xp drain net a -3, down to 8th; a long ritual (48 hours) would give another -1, for 7th. Could also increase one of the requirements (xp, MC, or Focus cost) by an order of magnitude (x10; 1,000,000 gp focus, 100,000 gp Material Component, 20,000 xp (split however between caster and target), or 480 hours (Forced March rules to continue the casting - keep Elorin on hand for eliminating fatigue and exhastion.... and pick up two Rings of Sustenence - one for caster, one for target)) for an extra -1 to the spell level.

I'm not totally enamored with the idea of spending 20 days casting this spell... (and I'm not so keen on spending XP, but I could do it). The first proposal you gave for the method gaining ability sounds good to me... now we have to come up with a name? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: By the way, I did sort of ask about the Jason thing... I'm guessing there was something historical he was involved in?

[Jack Simth]

Oh, that's not so hard:

Kaylin's Great Warping
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, F, M, XP
Casting Time: 48 hours (counts as continuous walking, use Forced March rules for walking the entire time; the target can sleep, eat, et cetera as normal, but the caster must cast continuously)
Range: Close (25 ft + 5 ft per 2 caster levels)
Target: Willing subjecy
Saving Throw: Will negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)
Duration: Permanent

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables the target to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more Hit Dice than your caster level or the targets Hit Dice (whichever is lower, to a maximum of 15 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

The target gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but loses the target's own supernatural abilities. The target also gains the type of the new form in place of the target's original. The new form does not disorient the target. Parts of the target's body or pieces of equipment that are separated from the target do not revert to their original forms.

The target can become just about anything the caster is familiar with. The change takes place as the culimnation of the 48-hour ritual. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.

Focus: A single diamond worth no less than 100,000 gp.
Material Component: Diamond dust worth at least 10,000 gp.
XP: 2000 xp, which can be taken from the target, the caster, or any combination thereof, at the caster's sole discresion.

Edit: Now you just need to spend the GP, time, and spellcraft checks to actually research the thing.... 1,000 gp per week, 1 week per level of the spell, spellcraft check DC 10+spell level; so 7,000 gp, 7 weeks, and a spellcraft check DC 17.... crafting portal applies.....

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Edit: By the way, I did sort of ask about the Jason thing... I'm guessing there was something historical he was involved in?


I don't think you asked Jason while in character... but yes, you did; feel free to ask him, (while wandering around in town, not covered by the wagon....) about it in character, when you are ready to have the plot suddenly zipped along.

[Violist]

Jack Simth said:I don't think you asked Jason while in character... but yes, you did; feel free to ask him, (while wandering around in town, not covered by the wagon....) about it in character, when you are ready to have the plot suddenly zipped along.



Yeah, that'd be it. By the way, does anyone else think that it'd be cool to spend a significant amount of time in a city or something as part of a side quest? Perhaps there's a book we need to find, or some master smith in hiding...




Kaylin's Great Warping



Eeeeeek... I hope she's up for this... it sounds like a side quest just getting the necessary materials http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Yeah, that'd be it. By the way, does anyone else think that it'd be cool to spend a significant amount of time in a city or something as part of a side quest? Perhaps there's a book we need to find, or some master smith in hiding...


Looking for something specific? I'm the one to ask....
Violist said:
Eeeeeek... I hope she's up for this...

Ah, just a little nonleathal damage... you know, DC 10 con check for hour 9, 12 for hour 10, 14 for hour 11 ... DC 50 for hour 48... but each failure is only 1d6 nonleathal damage (+ fatigue), and there's a Favored Soul with lots of healing readily available to deal with that aspect.
Violist said:
it sounds like a side quest just getting the necessary materials http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Well, yes, of course it would be. What did you expect for something *that* powerful?

[Violist]

I'm going to enjoy this muchly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If I come up with any ideas for plotlines, I'll let you know.

[Jack Simth]

[/quote]
Violist said:
I'm going to enjoy this muchly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


That is the general idea, yes.
Violist said:
If I come up with any ideas for plotlines, I'll let you know.


So no specific set of abilities you want in a widget yet? Okay.

[Violist]

Hey, Kibin... if you wanted to be quite nice to me, I could give you Greater Magic Fang (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicFangGreater.htm) and make it permanent.

Also, I'm thinking I'll buy a scroll of permanency next time I feel like spending lots of XP, so I can get permanent See Invisible and Arcane Sight, and I could start laying Resistance around...

Thinking about plots... Kaylin might have some childhood issues to deal with, perhaps an excuse to go off and butcher some orcs? pleasepleaseplease http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Jack Simth]

Something slightly unbalanced so you can go and slaughter some Orc children before they become Orc Warriors? Hmm.... perhaps.... might even be able to slip it past the Paladin.... although that could get tricky.

[Violist]

Actally, I was more thinking of some ancient blood feud or something that had to be settled with some orc who's now a general or something... that'd provide all the fun of sneaking around in D&D (which I haven't seen much of yet), and getting to do big battles against lots of tough enemies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

[Jack Simth]

If they are individually "tough", lots of them at once are fatal. It's part of the reason I haven't been sending more than one difficult demon at a time in (the other being that it's difficult to track lots of critters at once).

But if you want, I suppose one CR 12, 2 CR 8's, 4 CR 6's, 8 CR 4's, and 16 CR 2's make for an encounter level of 15... when we have a party level of 14.9; which could make for a nominally resonably difficult encounter ... for rediculously low amounts of xp (630 each for Derrel, Jason, Kaylin, and Elorin, 450 for Kibin). Of course, CR 2 Orcs have three levels of warrior, and probably hit an AC 17 wizard on about a roll of 10 or so, with Greatswords dealing 2d6+4 damage (with appropriet Composite Longbows, they only deal 1d8+3, on a roll of 13 or so, but all can fire at once... potentially at the same robed target... have to clear out the spellcasters first... Orcs are intelligent, after all). Be ready with battlefield control spells and escape battle spells.

A duel situation, on the other hand.... of course, that would be pretty much one on one.... or are you thinking something along the lines of covert ops/assasination of an opposing commander?

Edit: Let's see.... 100 CR 1/2 Orcish Warrior 1's + 1 Orcish Cleric 15 Warlord would officially be a CR 16 encounter. Of course, 100 longbow equipped Orcish Warrior 1's, shots divided evenly amongst 5 targets, would get roughly 1 hit per round per target... assuming that the targets all have AC 21 or better, and assuming totally mundane arrows. A cleric 15, on the other hand, could cast Greater Magic Weapon four times to give each two +3 arrows; burning 5th level spell slots as well, each could get four. 20 arrows per character the first round, at +4 to hit, means: AC 24 or higher (roll of 20 only): 1 hit; below that, +1 hit per -1 AC; so AC 17 could expect.... 8 hits the first round, for 1d8+3 damage (1d8+6, for Composite Str + 3 Longbows at 400 gp each... but that'd be overkill....); 1d8+3 averages... 7.5, eight of them would make for an expected (roughly 50% chance of that amount or more) 60 points of damage... and Kaylin only has 54 hp... assuming they don't give any preference to the spellcaster in the Robe of the Archmagi. Everyone else in the party would have sufficient AC that they would only take one or two arrows....

But do I really want to track 101 Orcs? Decisions, decisions.....

[Violist]

The standard orcish soldier probably won't be too tough individually, while the guards around high-ranking officials probably would be.
A duel situation, on the other hand.... of course, that would be pretty much one on one.... or are you thinking something along the lines of covert ops/assasination of an opposing commander?

Definitely the latter. But that might cause problems for Sir Derrel... and it's almost certainly against their Code. So, we should probably hold off on that, since it'd leave Derrel out of the fun.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Jack Simth said:
Something slightly unbalanced so you can go and slaughter some Orc children before they become Orc Warriors? Hmm.... perhaps.... might even be able to slip it past the Paladin.... although that could get tricky.


It'd be rather more difficult to slip it past the player.

[Violist]

Oops, didn't read carefully http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif I wouldn't do that unless I was evil...

[NullAshton]

Ooo, magic fang. Gimme.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
It'd be rather more difficult to slip it past the player.



Violist said:
Oops, didn't read carefully http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif I wouldn't do that unless I was evil...


Nothing in a dark shade of gray then? Check.

Violist said:
Hey, Kibin... if you wanted to be quite nice to me, I could give you Greater Magic Fang (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicFangGreater.htm) and make it permanent.

Of course, as you can't actually cast the Greater Magic Fang yourself, it soaks up the hired caster level... which granted, you will likely want as high as it goes anyway for the +5; let's see.... Permanency for Magic Fange requires 1500 xp ... which translates to 7500 gp for that, Permanency is 5th, and you need at least an 11th level caster.... so another 550 gp; and then you want Greater Magic Fang from a Druid ... 3rd level spell, caster level 20, another 600 gp; runs at a market value of 8650 gp. Of course, a Greater Dispel Magic can trash it for good....

[NullAshton]

Theroretically if we get it into a potion form, then it wouldn't be subject to dispel magic. Of course, that's probally more gold right there for the potion, but it wouldn't BE subject to dispel magic.

[Violist]

Hmm, so you're talking about hiring someone to cast it, like we did for the wagon? 3,000 gp for a potion of Greater Magic Fang (+5), and if I cast Permanency myself, that'd save money... and the other question is, would this even carry over once I cast Kaylin's Great Warping (hehe)?

[NullAshton]

Meh, let's just let the sorcerer change me back.

[Violist]

Considering that he's hostile to us, you might not like all of the changes he'll make to you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[NullAshton]

Meh. Let's just try it out, okay? Then you can tell physics to go take a dump outside.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

* Derrel sadly waves good-bye to Kibin.

[Violist]

It was nice knowing him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Theroretically if we get it into a potion form, then it wouldn't be subject to dispel magic. Of course, that's probally more gold right there for the potion, but it wouldn't BE subject to dispel magic.

Umm.... where does it say that the effects of a potion aren't subject to Dispel Magic?

Violist said:
Hmm, so you're talking about hiring someone to cast it, like we did for the wagon? 3,000 gp for a potion of Greater Magic Fang (+5), and if I cast Permanency myself, that'd save money... and the other question is, would this even carry over once I cast Kaylin's Great Warping (hehe)?

If it's the same attack form enhanced that was chosen with Greater Magic Fang (specifically, Bite), yes; otherwise, no.

You might also consider doing so twice; once using the +1 to all version, once using the +5 to one version. Then, if he somehow ends up with multiple natural attacks, they are all at +1, at a minimum.

NullAshton said:
Meh. Let's just try it out, okay? Then you can tell physics to go take a dump outside.

You do realize what usually happens when you try to tell physics off (and aren't a decent spellcaster, immortal, ludicrously lucky, or the GM) right?

[Violist]

While we were on the subject of crafting spells, what does the almighty GM think of the following?

Elemental Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell functions like Fireball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm) , with every creature in the area of effect taking 1d6 points of random damage (acid, electricity, fire, sonic) per caster level (15d6 max).

Material component:
A small glass prism worth 15 gp that is consumed in the casting.

How reasonable is that for a level 5 spell? perhaps more of an MC cost?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Roll a 1d4 for damage type?

[Violist]

That, or maybe weight the rolls so the ones that are more commonly resisted come out more.

[NullAshton]

It wouldn't be subject to Dispel Magic if the potion was a potion of permanency, since the caster and the target are both yourself for potions, and therefore you would be casting it at yourself and not make the effect suspectable to dispel magic any more. Greater magic fang can still be cast by someone else, however.

[NullAshton]

So many plotline ideas...

[NullAshton]

Okay, I almost got the basis for a first session of D&D. Plotline, baddies, how all of you people ended up on the same place... I think I'm going to go with level 5 on this one, with 4 party members(at first), a villian, and a couple of encounters to boot. Maybe even TREASURE!

EDIT: Yup, treasure, that's finished too.

[douglas]

Violist said:
While we were on the subject of crafting spells, what does the almighty GM think of the following?

Elemental Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell functions like Fireball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm) , with every creature in the area of effect taking 1d6 points of random damage (acid, electricity, fire, sonic) per caster level (15d6 max).

Material component:
A small glass prism worth 15 gp that is consumed in the casting.

How reasonable is that for a level 5 spell? perhaps more of an MC cost?


You forgot one type of elemental damage - cold.

This is the same level as Cone of Cold and has the same damage dice cap so that part isn't a problem. I think the 60 ft cone originating at caster vs 20 ft radius spread at medium range is a fairly even tradeoff of some area for range; in fact, judging by fireball, it should be long range (400 + 40/level).

The random damage type shouldn't be worth a level adjustment, I think, because it's not under the caster's control. The only thing that would need compensation for is the inclusion of sonic damage in the possibilities. Change the possible damage types to fire, cold, acid, and electricity, but not sonic, and it should be fine without the expensive MC.

NullAshton said:
It wouldn't be subject to Dispel Magic if the potion was a potion of permanency, since the caster and the target are both yourself for potions, and therefore you would be casting it at yourself and not make the effect suspectable to dispel magic any more. Greater magic fang can still be cast by someone else, however.


Potions are limited to 3rd level spells or lower. You'd have to get a scroll of Permanency and cast it with Use Magic Device. Also, the immunity to dispelling only applies to casters that aren't higher level than the caster level of Permanency, so you'd have to pay extra to get a high caster level. To get it undispellable by non-epic casters, the scroll would cost 5 (spell level) * 20 (caster level) * 25 (scroll) + 1500 (xp) * 5 (xp to gp converstion) = 10000 gp. To cast from the scroll, you would need to make a DC 40 UMD check, and another check at DC 30 for emulating the ability score if you don't have at least 15 intelligence or charisma, whichever is relevant.

[NullAshton]

Maybe a d6 roll, with the 6th die roll affecting that creature twice with two different types of energy? Same damage, just that half of it is one element and the other half is the other element.

And I got traps, yay. You can start the character generation now, 3.5 SRD rules, without any of the 'splat' books. Those books with the additional material seem to tend to be unbalanced, and allow you to powergame too much.

EDIT: Hehe, forgot the rules. 32 point buy, level 5, you can use psionics if you want...

[Violist]

So... long range instead of medium, cold instead of sonic, cone instead of spread, and no MC? That sounds good - I was trying to ensure that it stays at level 5.

/me goes to write that down

Also, if we're going for a scroll of permanency, why don't I learn the spell and cast? I don't mind paying the XP, and I'd like to at least give myself permanent See Invisibility.

NullAshton: Is grey-elf OK as a race? They're my favorite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
While we were on the subject of crafting spells, what does the almighty GM think of the following?

Elemental Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 Standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell functions like Fireball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fireball.htm) , with every creature in the area of effect taking 1d6 points of random damage (acid, electricity, fire, sonic) per caster level (15d6 max).

Material component:
A small glass prism worth 15 gp that is consumed in the casting.

How reasonable is that for a level 5 spell? perhaps more of an MC cost?


Personally? That it's pushing the bounds of a 5th level spell, but works, as posted above.

Why? Very few direct-damage spells, barring those of a high level (Prismatic Spray, 7th), or those that are severely weakened (Shadow Evocation, 5th, extra save for a fairly extreme partial; or Ice Storm, 4th, with 3d6 bludgeoning (elemental resistance doesn't help with that) and 2d6 Cold - doesn't scale with level) have the potential to still be quite useful when used against a creature that is exceptionally inappropriet due to an elemental immunity (e.g., Fireball vs. Red Dragon, Lightning Bolt against Blue Dragon). This one does, and there isn't anything severely crippled about the spell (like Shadow Evocation's extra save, or Ice Storm's flat damage amount at about half what a minimum caster for the spell would do with a Fireball).

[Violist]

That's a good point... now you guys have to help me here, is the GM Narf, douglas, or Jack? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif I keep getting you three confused.

Anyways, whichever one of you is the GM, determine what's reasonable please

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, I have a slight habit of doing that with the characters....

I GM the currently ECL 14 game (which, researching a 5th level spell, is likely the one you care aout....), Narf GM's the currently CL 3 game (on hold in the middle of a fight....), and Douglas is thinking about running a 5th level game (not started, but apparently mostly set up to run).

However, Medium range, VSM, 15 gp MC, randomly one of four or five elements, 20-foot spread, Reflex half and SR works. Starting to push the bounds, but it works.

Why? Well, it has inherent drawbacks ... you can't prep your allies for it with such spells as Resist Energy or Protection from Energy as you could with Fireball or Lightning Bolt; it does have an extra save (sort of) for any creature with some kind of elemental immunity (1 in 6 chance of no damage to a Red Dragon, for instance), as well as having the inherent drawback to most area-effect spells: can't really use it much after your allies have mixed it up with your opponents. Now, if the element was chosen, those would not apply, as you could prep allies or be sure of dealing something to the Red Dragon - but that's not the case here, so it works.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Wasn't it Ashton who wanted to GM something new?

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Douglas is thinking about running a 5th level game (not started, but apparently mostly set up to run).


That's Ashton, not me.


Jack Simth said:
However, Medium range, VSM, 15 gp MC, randomly one of four or five elements, 20-foot spread, Reflex half and SR works. Starting to push the bounds, but it works.

Why? Well, it has inherent drawbacks ... you can't prep your allies for it with such spells as Resist Energy or Protection from Energy as you could with Fireball or Lightning Bolt; it does have an extra save (sort of) for any creature with some kind of elemental immunity (1 in 6 chance of no damage to a Red Dragon, for instance), as well as having the inherent drawback to most area-effect spells: can't really use it much after your allies have mixed it up with your opponents. Now, if the element was chosen, those would not apply, as you could prep allies or be sure of dealing something to the Red Dragon - but that's not the case here, so it works.


Take out the randomness of the damage type and the expensive MC, and it is almost exactly on par with Cone of Cold. I don't think making the damage type random is worth any adjustment at all, as long as sonic is left out of the lineup. Either the damage type doesn't matter, or you're giving up the certainty of getting maximum effect against foes with known vulnerabilities in exchange for having a chance of it working well against anything.

[Violist]

douglas said:Take out the randomness of the damage type and the expensive MC, and it is almost exactly on par with Cone of Cold. I don't think making the damage type random is worth any adjustment at all, as long as sonic is left out of the lineup. Either the damage type doesn't matter, or you're giving up the certainty of getting maximum effect against foes with known vulnerabilities in exchange for having a chance of it working well against anything.



That's exactly what I'm looking for. And I prefer the 1d4 idea:
1 - Fire
2 - Electricity
3 - Cold
4 - Acid

But a 1d6 with perhaps a two-effect on a 6 would be interesting, although that'd push a level 5 spell by a bit.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Take out the randomness of the damage type and the expensive MC, and it is almost exactly on par with Cone of Cold. I don't think making the damage type random is worth any adjustment at all, as long as sonic is left out of the lineup. Either the damage type doesn't matter, or you're giving up the certainty of getting maximum effect against foes with known vulnerabilities in exchange for having a chance of it working well against anything.

Not quite what I meant; a spell where, at casting time, you get to choose between Fire, Cold, Acid, or Electricity would be more powerful than a Cone of Cold; a Cone of Cold, however, always does Cold damage, so you know it's liable to work against that Fire elemental, or that Red Dragon you are facing, with total certainty; but against the White Dragon, or that odd Ice Golem, it's quite useless, and you spend your time casting something else. Casting-time selectable, however, makes it a tad more useful, as: Red dragon? No problem! Cold ball! White dragon? No problem! Fire ball! Blue dragon? No problem! Acid ball! ... especially when it's just low enough for the Wizardess casting it to Empower for 21d6....
A spell-set element can be readily dealt with from a DM's perspective; "she usually favors Chain Lightning? Well, it's her turn to be relatively usless, time for something that's immune to electricity..." something that's chosen at casting time? A little trickier. Something that's random? Lacks a few abilities inherent in a set or selectable spell.

[Violist]

Speaking of useless, all these damn demons we're fighting with their SR and their saves... grr.

[Jack Simth]

Try picking up a summoning spell or two, some battlefield control spells, perhaps some more buffs; sure, you can't do the mega-damage against that high SR critter, but it's rather awkward for the demon when he suddenly finds there's something threatening him... just opposite from where the Rogue is standing. It doesn't really matter if it's a fluff creature (at this level, something from Summon Monster III or IV is mostly fluff) as it still threatens, and grants the Rogue flanking. Sure, it's Full-round; but when up against things you can't affect directly....
Such spells as Heroism or Greater Heroism are also very useful - bonuses to Attack Rolls, saves, and skill checks? Very useful against those high-AC targets, or all that save vs. X stuff out there. The Greater version even grants temporary HP and immunity to fear....
Battlefield control ... well, this is an interesting one, mostly only useful when up against multiple or highly mobile opponents; wouldn't it be great to be able to pin down that archer who shoots three arrows and moves in the same round so Derrel can get a full attack in? Or maybe just a nice solid Wall of Iron ... or better yet, an unbreakable Wall of Force... between you and the thing that's trying to kill you....

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
That's Ashton, not me.


I have so many difficulties keeping everyone from blurring together.... case in point....

[NullAshton]

Grey-elf is fine as long as it's in the SRD.

You know what would be really useful? Rock to mud and mud to rock. Use rock to mud, the demon falls into the mud, gets stuck in mud, you use rock to mud, he's in solid rock.

[Jack Simth]

Nah, that's not how you do it; you use Rock to Mud (5th), then Dispel Magic (3rd) (after all, it's your spell - automatic success!) rather than Mud to Rock (also 5th). A wizard can manage the trick with only a little over half the recources. And hey; Dispel Magic is always useful when there's an opposing sparkcaster around....

[Violist]

So I was thinking about possible campaign rules if I were to at some point be seized by the desire to GM... what do people think of the Elementalist class (spells yet to be developed)?

Spells for the class would focus primarily on use of the various elements (Fire (and cold), Earth, Air (and electricity), Water (and ice/steam), and U-235 (just kidding)). I'm thinking it might be a little overpowered though, so any suggestions on where to weaken it would be appreciated.

Edit: I think I'm becoming a little too obsessed...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Definitly a little too much firepower.

[Jack Simth]

You might want to look up the Elemental Savant Prestige class in Tome & Blood or Complete Arcane; similar theme, but focusing on one element.

Also, you can mostly do that by using a specialist wizard (Evocation), and look into the Variant Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantClasses.htm) from Unearthed Arcana (which was declared OGC, for the most part.... so is available online....) for it's specialist wizard variant classes.

[Violist]

Hmm, OK. I don't have any variant rulebooks.

[Jack Simth]

As for specifics on the class....

Agreed, overpowered. Wizard bonus feat progression + Wizard's spell access + much of the Sorceror's flexibility + two stats to DC's? At lower levels, that will work out okay, due to the lower base dc... but once that character gets to the point where both a Headband of Intellect and Periapt of Wisdom are feasable, DC's will get out of control rather quickly. Consider that in order for a normal wizard to increase spell DC's by +2 the wizard must invest in an extra +4 of enhancement to Int (16,000 gp); a Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, or Druid, +4 enhancement to Wis (16,000 gp, again); a Sorceror or Bard, +4 to Cha (16,000 gp); this class, however, needs merely to get +2 to both Wis and Int, at 4,000 gp each (8,000 gp); half the price. For +3, the Elementalist needs to spend only 20,000 (one 16,000 +4 item, one 4,000 +2 item) while the standard spellcasters need a maxed +6 item for 36,000 gp. The Elementalist can get +6 to his spell DC's with two +6 items (granted, for a total cost of 72,000 gp...) while the base casters have no such recourse above their +3 from enhancement bonuses. If the Elementalist manages to start with a 16 in both Int and Wis, sure, 1st level spell DC's will be a bit behind the standard spellcaster who opted for an 18 in something instead (by one point of DC). Not long after those enhanceing items are available, though....

[NullAshton]

Kaylin isn't much of a spark caster. She's more like a nuclear missle silo...

[Violist]

Roar, watch who you're calling sparkcaster, or I'll use the wrath of my shiny earrings on you.

[douglas]

NullAshton said:
Kaylin isn't much of a spark caster. She's more like a nuclear missle silo...


No, the real nuclear missile silos are high level Warmages (base class from Complete Arcane). Sorcerer spells per day, pretty much every blasting spell in existence automatically on their spells known list, add their intelligence bonus to spell damage, have a feat that adds another 1 + (level/4) to that bonus, and get Sudden Empower, Sudden Enlarge, Sudden Widen, and Sudden Maximize as bonus feats as they level up (feats also from Complete Arcane, once/day apply the metamagic effect to a spell with no extra preparation or spell level cost). Oh, and once they get to 8th level, they can wear mithril full plate with no spell failure chance.

What's the drawback, you ask? They get exactly two non blasting spells - Light and Continual Flame. That means no Identify, no Haste, no Slow, no Fly, no Teleport, no Analyze Dweomer, no Invisibility, no Dispel Magic, no Stone to Flesh/Flesh to Stone, etc.

[NullAshton]

Will you stop with using all these books? Let's stick to core books...

[douglas]

The Complete series is about as core as you can get short of the PHB, DMG, and MM themselves.

[NullAshton]

Lets just use the SRD...

[Violist]

That sounds like a very cool class... I almost want to play it, but no Analyse Dweomer? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[NullAshton]

It's also a very unbalanced class. If I remember right, every round they can unleash an arcane energy bolt, that is not subject to any resistances.

[douglas]

No, that's the Warlock, and their Eldritch Blast generally only does about 1d6 damage for every two levels, and it's single-target only, so it's really not all that powerful. Also, spell resistance does apply to it.

[NullAshton]

Yeah, but they can do it every round.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

So...At level 6 they are doing 3d6 damage per round.

At level 5, a fighter with a greatsword does 2d6 damage per round, on average. Add in strength bonus and it's 2d6+4.

2 feats at first level, 1 feat at second, 1 feat at third, 1 feat at fourth.

Weapon Focus(Greatsword), Weapon Spec.(Greatsword), Greater Weap. Focus(Greatsword), Greater Weap. Spec.(Greatsword), one empty feat.

+3 To-Hit, which increases average damage by 30%. +6 each hit, for 2d6+10 average, * 1.3 = 12 * 1.3 = 16 damage, average.

The warmage averages 21/2 = 10.5 damage per round.

That ignores spell resistance (Not much, at that level) and weapon enchantment.

[douglas]

NullAshton said:
Yeah, but they can do it every round.


And a fighter can swing his sword every round. Your point? Fighters also get to attack multiple times in the same round when their base attack is high enough. Eldritch Blast is limited to once per round regardless of level.

Also, have you ever seen a high level wizard actually run out of 3rd level or higher spells to cast? At low levels, Eldritch Blast isn't a whole lot better than a crossbow, and is almost certainly quite a bit worse than what the party fighter can do. At high levels, wizards can dish out considerably more damage per round, and can do it for as long as is likely to be necessary unless the DM is really putting the party through a LOT of encounters in a single day.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Also, have you ever seen a high level wizard actually run out of 3rd level or higher spells to cast?


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif
You really shouldn't be saying things like that when the DM is listening....
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/images/icons/exclamation.gif

[Violist]

*looks innocent in the background, pretending not to be limited by mere spells-per-day*

[NullAshton]

Can we start 2 hours earlier Saturday? At 6:00 EST, I have to go, and I don't want to be NPCed through any plotline stuff like last time.

[Violist]

That's 9:00 PST? Pretty early, but I can probably manage.

[Jack Simth]

Violist: Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of stealthy imps at night and this nifty little external object Wizards are so dependent on....

NullAshton: If everyone else is agreeable.

[Violist]

Eeek, you're not talking about a spellbook theft, are you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Heartless cad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Jack Simth]

Oh, you still maintain any spells you hadn't burned the previous day until they are overwritten in the prepareing process; as long as such a theft doesn't last particularly long, it doesn't cripple the caster too terribly badly, unless it's done a lot or after an exhausting day.

[NullAshton]

Hehe. Well, these imps have to get past me first... And I can hear them from a mile away. Gotta love my listen skill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Violist]

Back to the wizard's rules of survival: get those big buff physical guys to protect you while you prepare to make the universe sit up and beg. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Hehe. Well, these imps have to get past me first... And I can hear them from a mile away. Gotta love my listen skill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Not a mile away (by RAW, a mile imposes a +528 DC to listen/spot checks ... which finding someone who is hiding/silent is all about) and there are other demons with better checks; how does a Babau's +19/+19 Hide/Move Silently sound?

[Violist]

Now that I'm getting a little worried, I need to work out some way for Kaylin to become paranoid about her spellbook in-game. In the meantime, who all is planning on playing the campaign NullAshton is thinking about GMing? I'm in, but I'm still debating what to play.

[douglas]

Put your spellbook in your bag of holding when you're not using it, tie the bag shut, and lock it in a chest when you're not awake and carrying it with you. Also, put some Explosive Runes (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm) on the spellbook.

Given how important a spellbook is to an adventuring wizard, I'd say you don't need any extra reason to be paranoid about it in character - paranoid protection of the spellbook is the default normal behavior.

[Violist]

paranoid protection of the spellbook is the default normal behavior.


Good point that. Could it survive an Explosive Runes detonation? I don't see anything about HP in the srd info.

[NullAshton]

I also want to get Kaylin to cast the great warping thingie on me before 6 tomorrow.

[NullAshton]

You could just leave it to me to protect. I can just sleep on it, and they'd never get it.

[douglas]

Violist said:
That's 9:00 PST? Pretty early, but I can probably manage.


That's the time he has to leave. He wants to start at 1pm Eastern, 4pm Pacific.

[NullAshton]

Ummm? Pacific is 3 hours earlier than me. 1PM eastern, 10:00 AM PST. Usually we start at 12:00 PST, noon.

[Violist]

Yeah, I thought he said earlier... might have misread it though.

[douglas]

Oops, I mess up which direction the time difference is in sometimes. 1 Eastern, 10 Pacific.

[NullAshton]

Comeon! I want Kaylin to tell physics to go take a walk already with her Great Warping.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Earlier? I'll try to be awake for that.

[NullAshton]

Hehe. I wonder how funny a newt paladin would be.

[Violist]

Instead of Smite Evil, they'd Smite Pondweed...

[NullAshton]

Hehe. Wonder what newty sounds they'd make.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...I dunno if I can describe it to you...

...Ever watch any godzilla movies?...

[Violist]

Those are newty noises? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Put your spellbook in your bag of holding when you're not using it, tie the bag shut, and lock it in a chest when you're not awake and carrying it with you. Also, put some Explosive Runes (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/explosiveRunes.htm) on the spellbook.

Given how important a spellbook is to an adventuring wizard, I'd say you don't need any extra reason to be paranoid about it in character - paranoid protection of the spellbook is the default normal behavior.



SRD, Spells, Explosive Runes
You trace these mystic runes upon a book, map, scroll, or similar object bearing written information. The runes detonate when read, dealing 6d6 points of force damage. Anyone next to the runes (close enough to read them) takes the full damage with no saving throw; any other creature within 10 feet of the runes is entitled to a Reflex save for half damage. The object on which the runes were written also takes full damage (no saving throw).


Are you SURE you want explosive runes ON your ONLY spellbook? A better option would probably be Instant Summons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/instantSummons.htm) and several Sepia Snake Sigils (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm) which don't damage the book (Jason is to the point where he can emulate the Sepia Snake Sigils for you, as a standard action casting ... if you don't mind a few limitations on the emulated spell). Even better, get a second, maybe a third, and spend some cash to get time in the quick time plane for copying them. That's Wizards Paranoia, not setting the only spellbook to SELF DESTRUCT when read.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Good point that. Could it survive an Explosive Runes detonation? I don't see anything about HP in the srd info.

Potentially; I'd be inclined to read "durable" as "tough as rock" and give it hardness 8 15hp/inch of thickness; at 1 inch thick, that's 15 HP; tougher than most mundane weapons. Let's see... 6d6 averages 3.5*6=21 points of damage; does Harness apply to Force damage? If so, on average, a Blessed Book would have 2 HP left... of course, if someone is reading the explosive runes, they likely have it open with the pages exposed....

[douglas]

I didn't read the spell carefully enough to notice that the inscribed object isn't protected from the explosion. Perhaps a custom version one level higher that doesn't harm what it's on?

Instant Summons doesn't work very well when "the item is in the possession of another creature". Sure, it tells you where it is, but you still have to go get it and the thief could move before you get there.

The Sigil doesn't trigger until someone tries to read it, which would probably be either never or when the Sorcerer inspects it, and he'd probably take precautions against such things.

Perhaps one of the Symbol spells, set to trigger when an evil creature touches, or maybe looks at, the book?

You could also stow it in a Secret Chest (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm), though you'd have to recast the spell every time you put it away.

Unfortunately, all of the options I've looked at besides explosive runes have expensive material components or foci, ranging from 500 gp for Sepia Snake Sigil to 5050 gp for Secret Chest. If we're willing to spend that much, we could try adding Forbiddance (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/forbiddance.htm) to the existing Permanent Mage's Private Sanctum, but that could get a bit harsh on random curious bystanders who want to investigate the mysterious fog bank or just happen to be too close when we drive the wagon by. Hmm, it's shapeable and I think the volume given is a maximum, not a fixed value; is the wagon at least 10 feet in every dimension?

[NullAshton]

Yeah, and if they self-destruct... Byebye spells. Maybe you could do that while researching http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
I didn't read the spell carefully enough to notice that the inscribed object isn't protected from the explosion. Perhaps a custom version one level higher that doesn't harm what it's on?


At that point you are talking the power level of many of the Symbols; better just to pick one up - Persuasion (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsS.html#symbol-of-persuasion), say
douglas said:

Instant Summons doesn't work very well when "the item is in the possession of another creature". Sure, it tells you where it is, but you still have to go get it and the thief could move before you get there.


Unless you prepare some form of Teleport, of course....
douglas said:
The Sigil doesn't trigger until someone tries to read it, which would probably be either never or when the Sorcerer inspects it, and he'd probably take precautions against such things.


Same issue with Explosive Runes - but seriously, why does a Sorceror even need to look in a stolen spellbook?
douglas said:

Perhaps one of the Symbol spells, set to trigger when an evil creature touches, or maybe looks at, the book?


Could work, and quite well, at that; of course, they all take SR and have either a Fort or Will save.... which demons and devils tend to have both of in plenty.
douglas said:

You could also stow it in a Secret Chest (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm), though you'd have to recast the spell every time you put it away.

As well as making sure to retrieve it often....

[douglas]

Took too long editing:

douglas said:
Unfortunately, all of the options I've looked at besides explosive runes have expensive material components or foci, ranging from 500 gp for Sepia Snake Sigil to 5050 gp for Secret Chest. If we're willing to spend that much, we could try adding Forbiddance (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/forbiddance.htm) to the existing Permanent Mage's Private Sanctum, but that could get a bit harsh on random curious bystanders who want to investigate the mysterious fog bank or just happen to be too close when we drive the wagon by. Hmm, it's shapeable and I think the volume given is a maximum, not a fixed value; is the wagon at least 10 feet in every dimension?

[NullAshton]

Whoops, one problem. We're not all the same alignment...

EDIT: Wait, nm, password. What about a neutral good cleric? Then anything good could enter, and any evil would be attacked.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Unfortunately, all of the options I've looked at besides explosive runes have expensive material components or foci, ranging from 500 gp for Sepia Snake Sigil to 5050 gp for Secret Chest.

Jason can duplicate the Sepia Snake Sigil for the cost of a 4th level spell slot and a standard action; no MC - Sepia Snake Sigil is Conjouration(Creation)[Force] at Sor/Wiz 3; Jason happens to have picked up Shadow Conjouration at his most recent level gain - which duplicates (with caveats) any Sor/Wiz Conjouration(Summoning) or Conjouration(Creation) spell of 3rd level or lower, and has a components line of V, S - no need for MC's, if you don't mind an extra save and SR; but at that rate, Jason could manage (eventually) to put a Sepia Snake Sigil on every page, individually, if needed, without expending any non-renewable recources.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Whoops, one problem. We're not all the same alignment...

EDIT: Wait, nm, password. What about a neutral good cleric? Then anything good could enter, and any evil would be attacked.

Still differs along the Law/Chaos axis; there's three positions there, you know.

[NullAshton]

Bah. Let's just stick to kicking the butt out of any demons we come across.

And... even if it saved, it would still make a loud noise, right? Win win!

[Jack Simth]

Parse error: Makes a loud noise when it saves from getting it's rear kicked out?

[Violist]

Apparently so. Probably a raspberry, you know.. "HAH! I survived THAT attack!"

[Jack Simth]

Server online. Today's Random: [100d20]=(1121)

[douglas]

It appears that the metaserver is down. What's your IP address?

[Violist]

I'm curious... what's the 100d20 stuff about?

[douglas]

This forum doesn't allow duplicate posts, so he has to add something to all the "server online" posts to make them different. This is also the reason so many of the "King of the Hill has been updated" posts have some creative phrasing.

[Jack Simth]

The boards have a double post prevention measure that prevents the exact same post from being posted twice in anything resembling close succession. Today's Random combats that quite effectively.

[Violist]

Wow, vast quantities of backstory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif me like

[Jack Simth]

Registered an exit on Kaylin; anything up?

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; one dragon revealed and slain, nominal CR 19; 5040 xp each to Derrel, Jason, Kaylin, and Elorin; 3600 xp to Kibin.

Lots of loot; little plot. Log attached, hopefully, with both an XML and HTML listing of the identified treasure.

[Violist]

Unless I'm much mistaken, that puts me at 105,038 XP... Archmage time! wooowoowooo....

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... puts Jason up, too; also Derrel; possibly Elorin, depending on how much was spent crafting. New spell level... hmm....

Also, how did everyone enjoy the session, plot, et cetera?

Speaking of Archmage, it's a Prestige Class - can't go into it without first getting to teh Archmage Acadamy.... although you can hold off your level up until then, if you like.

[douglas]

I still need 3682 to level up.

Hmm, does the Monk's Belt give just the level based AC bonus, or the Wisdom to AC bonus? With my +8 wisdom bonus, that would be quite useful for me, though it would conflict with my Belt of Giant Strength +4. Since it would also stack with Bracers of Armor... too bad my Bracers of Archery take up the same slot.

[Violist]

Personally, I loved this session. One big intense fight with tons of plot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Of course, it's probably harder on the GM to keep coming up with plots.

I guess I'll hold off on my levelup until I can get to the Academy thing... oh, at XL 15, wizards get a bonus feat... I wouldn't get that if I levelled in Archmage, would I?

How many bonus level 8 spells per day would I get as a result of intelligence? I can't seem to find a mention of it.

Edit: seeing as we're already on loot division, I'd like to apply for the spellcasting ioun stone...

[douglas]

Violist said:
I guess I'll hold off on my levelup until I can get to the Academy thing... oh, at XL 15, wizards get a bonus feat... I wouldn't get that if I levelled in Archmage, would I?


No, you wouldn't. You get more spells per day and spells known, but no other class features of a Wizard.


Violist said:
How many bonus level 8 spells per day would I get as a result of intelligence? I can't seem to find a mention of it.


The table is here (http://d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#abilityScores). To derive it without a table, your intelligence bonus is the same number as the highest spell level you get a bonus spell slot for. For the top four levels that get bonus spell slots, you get one at each level. Two bonus spell slots for the next four levels down, three for the next four, etc. Bonus spell slots above level 9 are ignored except for some deities and epic casters with the Improved Spell Capacity epic feat.


Violist said:
Edit: seeing as we're already on loot division, I'd like to apply for the spellcasting ioun stone...


It would help me too, but not as much as you, I think.

[Jack Simth]

Jason hitting 10th... not much useful in Necromancy (well, for Jason, anyway) at that level... Shadow, perhaps, having paid more attention to our adversaries tactics recently? Yes....
And with Shadow Conjouration, can swap out Fireball for... Magic Circle Against Evil. Bleh; rolled a 1 on HP; oh well, no matter, he hardly ever takes a hit anyway... update standard use list... there; Jason now ECL 15, Sorceror 10

[Violist]

douglas said:

Violist said:
Edit: seeing as we're already on loot division, I'd like to apply for the spellcasting ioun stone...


It would help me too, but not as much as you, I think.



Hmm... toss 'ya for it? Ought to have some way of deciding who should use it.

[douglas]

No, you can have it. You do nothing but cast spells, while I have this nifty bow.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
I still need 3682 to level up.

Hmm, does the Monk's Belt give just the level based AC bonus, or the Wisdom to AC bonus? With my +8 wisdom bonus, that would be quite useful for me, though it would conflict with my Belt of Giant Strength +4. Since it would also stack with Bracers of Armor... too bad my Bracers of Archery take up the same slot.

Give AC as a monk of 5th level - both the +1 and the Wis to AC... but doesn't function with either armor or shield (as a monk's ac), although Bracers of Defense would be fine.


Violist said:
Personally, I loved this session. One big intense fight with tons of plot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Of course, it's probably harder on the GM to keep coming up with plots.

I guess I'll hold off on my levelup until I can get to the Academy thing... oh, at XL 15, wizards get a bonus feat... I wouldn't get that if I levelled in Archmage, would I?


You would not get the wizardly bonus feat; you would, however, get an Archmage Special, and be allowed to take that Wiz-15 for the bonus feat next level with no problems
Violist said:

How many bonus level 8 spells per day would I get as a result of intelligence? I can't seem to find a mention of it.

Edit: seeing as we're already on loot division, I'd like to apply for the spellcasting ioun stone...

Jason could actually make better use of it - Caster Level 10, at the moment, vs. almost every other caster's 15.

Think we can con Kibin into wearing the ring? She'd get hands... and be able to wear all those nifties....

[Violist]

That's a good point... Jason's Fireballs weren't very effective in combat, even if he does normally use Colossal daggers. I wouldn't mind relinquishing the stone to him.

[douglas]

Oh, right, I'd have to get rid of the shield too. That severely reduces the Belt's usefulness to me, though I'd really like to know how having an animated shield floating around me impairs my ability to dodge attacks. If you house rule that the animated shield doesn't interfere then I might go for it, otherwise I'd say put it up for sale.

Edit: There's a reason serious powergamers practically never use races or templates with a level adjustment for making Sorcerers (or Wizards). The delay in getting more damage dice and, especially, higher level spells really hurts.

Of course, if you have enough money, we could buy extras for everyone that wants one. It's only 30000 gp each, after all.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

What's the treasure list?

Also - One human fighter 12th, no equipment save two short swords, no magic, just to test something. Used 25-Point Buy, and the PHB.

Points: 25/25

Stats:

Str 14/+2
Dex 18/+4
Con 11/+0
Int 8/-1
Wis 8/-1
Cha 8/-1

Level 1: 1 Feat from 1st level, 1 Feat from Fighter 1st, 1 Feat from Human. Weapon Focus(Short Sword), Weapon Finesse(Short Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting.

Level 2: 1 Feat from Fighter 2nd. Two-Weapon Defence.

Level 3: 1 Feat from 3rd level. Power Attack.

Level 4: 1 Feat from Fighter 4th, +1 Stat. Weapon Specialization(Short Sword), Dex 19.

Level 5: Nada.

Level 6: 1 Feat from 6th level, 1 Feat from Fighter 6th. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Cleave.

Level 7: Nada.

Level 8: 1 Feat from Fighter 8th, +1 Stat. Greater Weapon Focus(Short Sword), Dex 20.

Level 9: 1 Feat from 9th level. Improved Sunder.

Level 10: 1 Feat from Fighter 10th. Quick Draw.

Level 11: Nada.

Level 12: 1 Feat from 12th level, 1 Feat from Fighter 12th, +1 Stat. Greater Weapon Specialization(Short Sword), Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Dex 21.

Stats:

Str 14/+2
Dex 21/+5
Con 11+0
Int 8/-1
Wis 8/-1
Cha 8/-1

Attacks: +14/+9/+4 Base + Str, +20/+15/+10 Base + Dex + Short Sword, +18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+8 Base + Dex + Two Short Swords. AC 16.
Short Sword Damage (Assuming all hit): 1d6+8. Max roll of 6d6+48. Min Damage: 54 - Half 27. Max Damage: 84 - Half 42.


Is my math right? Do I get a Munchkin Achievement Badge?

[douglas]

You got the attack progression wrong for dual-wield. Neither sword gets all three attacks at the full attack bonus, it's +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8.

How are you getting 1d6+8 damage for the swords? All I count is 1d6 (base) +2 (str) +2 (weap. spec.) +2 (great. weap. spec.) = 1d6+6.

The treasure list:

The ring of the Countess van Krankzinnigheid

This ring was crafted by a dragon who wanted to run his own country. There was a problem, however; he couldn't simply replace the king (too many people around who knew him very, very well), he couldn't make his Polymorph permanent, and he couldn't quite be sure that a Polymorph he cast would result in exactly the same form every single time. However, the country he wanted had a King who was looking for a wife....
So he crafted this ring. While worn, it reshapes the wearer into a particular human countenence; a very beautiful woman, whom the dragon built a false identity around - that of the Countess van Krankzinnigheid. The plan was insanity: to marry the king, bear him an heir, then kill the king and rule as regent... while carefully and continuously altering the mind of the heir so that, when he was finally grown, the new king would be little more than a puppet for his dear mother.
As a side effects of forcing the physical form, the ring halts the aging process while it is worn, as well as granting double the normal healing rates for hit points and ability damage.
Market Price: Unique; priceless, to the right individual; 56,000 gp, nominal market price
Forging: Forge Ring, Polymorph, 28,000 gp, 2240 xp

Bracers of Armor +7 (49,000 gp)
Monk's Belt (13,000 gp)
Orange Prisim Ioun Stone, (30,000 gp)
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (16,000 gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +4 (32,000 gp)
Ring of Protection +4 (32,000 gp)
+1/+1 Quarterstaff (4,600 gp)
Spell Components Pouch
Spell Components Pouch
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (5,000 gp)
Shredded rags
Royal Outfit, trimmed in silver with ruby buttons
Masterwork Dagger
Masterwork Dagger
Carriage
Light Horse
Light Horse
13 pp
6 gp

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Oh, right, I'd have to get rid of the shield too. That severely reduces the Belt's usefulness to me, though I'd really like to know how having an animated shield floating around me impairs my ability to dodge attacks. If you house rule that the animated shield doesn't interfere then I might go for it, otherwise I'd say put it up for sale.


It maintains it's Arcane Spell Failure and Armor Check Penalty, it still restricts the monk. Now, an Arcane Caster, on the other hand, who doesn't have one, could benefit quite a bit..... not as much, granted, but quite a bit.
douglas said:

Edit: There's a reason serious powergamers practically never use races or templates with a level adjustment for making Sorcerers (or Wizards). The delay in getting more damage dice and, especially, higher level spells really hurts.


Well aware of it; was, even when creating the character - but then, I created the character unsure of what support would be had, and so made one which could deal with a fairly wide range of situations, including total inablity to get past SR. Sure, there's a Will save - but most things with high will saves and SR usually aren't so grand against the grapple aspect (dragons, of course, are an exception to many different patters....)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Greater Weap. Specialization grants +4 damage.

I think I'll see what happens when I add CW.

[Violist]

That brings up a question I've been nursing along for a while... is the focus of this game more on roleplaying or powergaming (or just beating the crap outta stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif)?

[Jack Simth]

I've been hoping for Roleplaying over Rollplaying, but I do adapt to the situation as it arises.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I would like a little more role-playing.

With Complete Warrior and adding a buckler:

Level 13: Nada.

Level 14: 1 Feat from Fighter 14th. Improved Two-Weapon Defence.

Level 15: 1 Feat from 15th level. Improved Buckler Defence.

AC raises to 19. Now, change race to Halfling and take Swarmfighting... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Violist]

*summons the Cow of Inevitability to squash the munchkin*

[NullAshton]

Hehe. Ooo, shiney magicy items... Think I could grab most of these items? Please? Gloves of dexterity I can't wear... But +16 AC isn't all that bad.

Hehe, funny stuff on the wall of force and anti-magic field. I laughed for minutes on end http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Violist said:
*summons the Cow of Inevitability to squash the munchkin*


Oh, I'd never play it in a serious game.

Except maybe if we keep on getting more CR+6's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Ashton: No. Way. You're already +1 level ahead of us.

[Violist]

Hehe... I'll be happy to go back to fighting boring 'ol demons...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Besides, I totally forgot about Improved Critical(Short Swords). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Jack Simth]

Makes a great combo, if you can figure out a way to get two AMF's - one on each side of the Wall of Force - AMF block all magic, Wall of Force blocks all non-magic. Only way through is with a Disjunction ... and even that's chancy, pre-epic.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

With Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting, I could bump both those up to Longswords. And Dual Strike would allow two attacks after a Move Action, at -4. (Complete Adventurer)

[Jack Simth]

Well... He's now even with Derrel (XP raised Derrel's level), but he's quite a few XP behind the rest of the party. I seriously doubt Kibin will make 16th until after everyone else already has.... It is time to start upping his treasure value.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
I would like a little more role-playing.

With Complete Warrior and adding a buckler:

Level 13: Nada.

Level 14: 1 Feat from Fighter 14th. Improved Two-Weapon Defence.

Level 15: 1 Feat from 15th level. Improved Buckler Defence.

AC raises to 19. Now, change race to Halfling and take Swarmfighting... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif




Two-weapon defence provides a Shield bonus; doesn't stack with a Buckler.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ah. Nevermind then.

So Derrel is 14th?

[Jack Simth]

I'd actually suggest that most the equipment be kept; most of it is highly defensive in nature, and useful to somebody in the party; about all that isn't useful for somebody is the horses, carriage, daggers, and dress.

Just some examples:
Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor are both above those Elorin carries (either, individually, increase Elorin's AC by two points).
The Bracers would increase Kaylin's AC by two points (+7 bracer's Armor bonus supercede the +5 Armor bonus from Robe of the Archmagi); she wears no amulet or ring, so either would increase her AC by +4 (note that, if both Amulet of Natural Armor and Ring of Protection are handed to Elorin, then Elorin doesn't need them so much, and can hand tom off to Kaylin, who gains +4 to AC that way)
Derrel has neither Deflection nor Natural Armor bonuses, and could gain +4 from either.
Anyone could gain +1 from the 5000 gp Ioun stone.

[Jack Simth]

He was 14th; now, he has the XP to be 15th.

Also, and if you are revising his assorted stats anyway, remember to fix the sword roll - she's a +5, not a +4.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Ah. Nevermind then.


Well, what you do is skip the Two-Weapon Defense chain (or as much as you can, if it's used as pre-requisites somewhere), and stick with Improved Buckler (which you then enchant), as Two-Weapon Defense can't be enchanted up.

[Violist]

Jack Simth said:
I'd actually suggest that most the equipment be kept; most of it is highly defensive in nature, and useful to somebody in the party; about all that isn't useful for somebody is the horses, carriage, daggers, and dress.



If we're going to be roleplaying more (Which I like better than pure gaming), and we're going to see more nobility, the party should have a change of clothes... depends on how much it's worth, though.

[Jack Simth]

In which case, the horses and carriage are useful, too.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And by 'Ah. Nevermind.' I meant, not so opposed to Ashton getting more treasure, if it's needed to counter-balance less XP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But that works, too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Violist]

Don't we already have horses on the wagon? Just a matter of hitching them up to a different box.

[Jack Simth]

Ah, but what we have are heavy horses... and both carriage and wagon are designed for a pair of horses.

Besides, do you put scruffy work horses in front of a royal carriage, or bred carriage horses?

[douglas]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Greater Weap. Specialization grants +4 damage.


It's either +4 that does not stack with Weapon Specialization or +2 that does, depending on where you look. Either way, the improvement is only +2 damage over normal Weapon Specialization, since you have to get that first.

Roleplay vs rollplay, I'd be quite happy to try roleplaying more, but recent sessions seem to have been focusing quite a lot on combat, which doesn't present much opportunity for it. Using online chat instead of face-to-face gaming is also something of an obstacle, but I'm afraid there's nothing we can do about that.

Jack Simth said:
Also, and if you are revising his assorted stats anyway, remember to fix the sword roll - she's a +5, not a +4.


I think you also need to update the damage bonus on your smite attack.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ah, ok. Thanks. So -1 to To-Hit (Weapon Focus doesn't stack, either) and -2 to Damage.

They should write those as +1 and +2. Very missleading, if you only look at the short. (And it's annoying to flip back and forth)

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
I'd actually suggest that most the equipment be kept; most of it is highly defensive in nature, and useful to somebody in the party; about all that isn't useful for somebody is the horses, carriage, daggers, and dress.


The Ring of the Countess... Well, if Kibin's that desperate to be humanoid again, I suppose we could let him have it, but it would sell for quite a chunk of change. It could be interesting trying to find someone (that "right individual") to whom it would be priceless, if we want to go to that much effort. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in the party with enough wisdom to really benefit from the Monk's Belt, and I'd have to take the Bracers of Armor too and give up some of my existing equipment for it to be worth it. I think it would be too expensive to be worth it to make it really work.

The Bracers of Armor are way too expensive for the minor benefit they would give anyone in the party IMO.

The quarterstaff is near useless to us - everyone that could use it but Kaylin has a better weapon already, and Kaylin has her spells.

I don't know if anyone could use the Gloves of Dexterity. I'd take them, except I already have a pair just as good.

Both Ioun Stones, the Amulet of Natural Armor, and the Ring of Protection are definite keepers, though. Keeping just those gives 33687.2 gp value per person just from the magic items and cash.

About the clothes, I think a Royal Outfit is a tad excessive, and might be frowned upon by any monarchs we happen to meet. A Noble's Outfit for each party member might be a good idea, though, and I suppose I should pack more than one Traveler's Outfit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
The Ring of the Countess... Well, if Kibin's that desperate to be humanoid again, I suppose we could let him have it, but it would sell for quite a chunk of change. It could be interesting trying to find someone (that "right individual") to whom it would be priceless, if we want to go to that much effort. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Oh... not as much effort as you might imagine....
douglas said:

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in the party with enough wisdom to really benefit from the Monk's Belt, and I'd have to take the Bracers of Armor too and give up some of my existing equipment for it to be worth it. I think it would be too expensive to be worth it to make it really work.


Depends on how you define "really benefit"; Kaylin, for instance, would gain 3 AC from it.
douglas said:

The Bracers of Armor are way too expensive for the minor benefit they would give anyone in the party IMO.


Kaylin would gain +2 AC, Jason +3; selling it for the 24,500 gp wouldn't really be enough to boost either's AC significantly... well, it would be enough to give Kaylin a +4 Mithral Buckler, for a +5 Shield bonus to AC, I suppose... but that's only a +1 compared to casting Shield
douglas said:

The quarterstaff is near useless to us - everyone that could use it but Kaylin has a better weapon already, and Kaylin has her spells.


It would actually allow Jason to (sometimes) hit something that he can't do anything else to - still suffers from the 50% miss chance, but something ungrappleable with high SR when he's out of Violent Thrusts... as long as it doesn't have DR.
douglas said:

I don't know if anyone could use the Gloves of Dexterity. I'd take them, except I already have a pair just as good.


Kaylin again could benefit, as could Kibin (once turned to a form that could use them....)
douglas said:

Both Ioun Stones, the Amulet of Natural Armor, and the Ring of Protection are definite keepers, though. Keeping just those gives 33687.2 gp value per person just from the magic items and cash.

[Jack Simth]

Oh hey, Narf - does Derrel still carry those quite a few scrolls that he can't really do anything with from earlier, before we had a Wizard and a Favored Soul?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Dis one? Better answer fast, can't stay long.

scroll
arcane (2,150 gp)
Nondetection (l3, cl5)
Greater Magic Weapon (l3, cl5)
Dimension Door (l4, cl7)
Fire Shield (l4, cl7)
curse: item has no actual magical power other than to delude the user
divine (1,825 gp)
Locate Object (l3, cl5)
Dominate Animal (l3, cl5)
Antiplant Shell (l4, cl7)
Magic Circle against Chaos (l3, cl5)
divine (1,400 gp)
Summon Monster IV (l4, cl7)
Quench (l4, cl7)

[Violist]

Gauntlets of Dexterity would be nice, I've been having trouble with my Reflex saves... but I could live without. What I really would like is to be able to get 12,000 gp together to upgrade from a +4 to a +6 Headband of Intellect. And maybe I could buy some of those nifty Ioun stones that enhance Intelligence...

There's actually nothing I can think of in this loot that I'm desperate to keep for myself... so do what you think best.

[douglas]

Violist said:
Gauntlets of Dexterity would be nice, I've been having trouble with my Reflex saves... but I could live without. What I really would like is to be able to get 12,000 gp together to upgrade from a +4 to a +6 Headband of Intellect. And maybe I could buy some of those nifty Ioun stones that enhance Intelligence...


The upgrade from +4 to +6 costs 20000 gp, and the Ioun stones give the same type of bonus so it wouldn't stack.

Violist said:
There's actually nothing I can think of in this loot that I'm desperate to keep for myself... so do what you think best.


What about the +1 caster level Ioun Stone? Among other things, that's another +1 for penetrating SR.

[Jack Simth]

Narf: Those are the ones I'm thinking of, yes. Really any arcane scrolls that Derrel picked up along the way which haven't been either used or sold - bona-fide wizard in the party, now, who can use them effectively.

Violist: Desparate for, no; things you could use, most certainly; listed a few earlier. And as Douglas mentioned, the +2 to a stat Ioun stones are enhancement bonuses, and don't stack with a Headband of Intellect (just as a Fox's Cunning spell wouldn't).

Douglas: That's more useful to Jason than Kaylin (Kaylin is now running at something like +19 to penetrate SR as it is, and *most* of her offensive spells are of the save-or-(effectively)-die variety anyway); also, if she means to do the work herself (with Elorin's help for Craft Wondrous Item, of course) then she could actually pull it off with 10,000 gp and 800 xp.

[douglas]

Speaking of SR penetration, I was browsing through the wondrous items list and just noticed that the Robe of the Archmagi has a bonus we've been forgetting about - +2 enhancement bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance. That brings Kaylin's bonus vs SR up to 21 now.

[Jack Simth]

Well... depending on whether she waits to visit the Archmage acadamy and go Archmage now then (delayed level -> Penetration 20) or if she goes Wizard now (Penetration 21) - but yes, missed that.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
also, if she means to do the work herself (with Elorin's help for Craft Wondrous Item, of course) then she could actually pull it off with 10,000 gp and 800 xp.


Oh yeah, collaboration. That would make it possible for me to upgrade my gloves of dex to +6, assuming she knows or learns Cat's Grace. If someone in the party takes Craft Magic Arms and Armor, that would also make it possible to upgrade my Bracers of Archery from Lesser to Greater.

[Jack Simth]

You might also consider her scroll making capability to hand a few scrolls of such things as Restoration or Break Enchantment for emergency situations (where it's those who would normally be casting them that need them in order to act....) to Derrel (who could use both those scrolls, provided you set the caster level to 7th or less); or, if you find yourself lacking a spell on your list that is on the Paladin's list, reversing the proceedure and getting a scroll of Death Ward or some such.

[Jack Simth]

Also, a few thoughts for things Elorin might want to invest in:

Strand of Prayer Beads (normal, for the bead of Karma; combined with a +1 Caster Level from an Ornage Prisim Ioun stone, and you have a caster level of 20... great for morning prep for that Greater Magic Weapon on your bow and Greater Magic Vestments for your armor... and, perhaps, everyone else's)

[Violist]

Oh, the Ioun stone and the Headband bonuses don't stack? grrr, nevermind then. While the +1 Caster Level stone would be nice, as you've said, Jason is probably in more need of it than I.

What exactly is involved in the Archmage Academy thing?

I know Cat's Grace, so I could help you out there, and if I took another level of Wizard now and did Archmage instead of Wizard 16, I could get the Craft Magic Items and Armor feat... but I'm not sure how helpful that'd be in comparison to some other things I could do.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Also, a few thoughts for things Elorin might want to invest in:

Strand of Prayer Beads (normal, for the bead of Karma; combined with a +1 Caster Level from an Ornage Prisim Ioun stone, and you have a caster level of 20... great for morning prep for that Greater Magic Weapon on your bow and Greater Magic Vestments for your armor... and, perhaps, everyone else's)


I still need to level up before I'd get all the way to CL 20, but yes, that would be a useful investment. Hmm, Strand of Prayer Beads = 25800 gp. Take off the Bead of Healing (-9000 gp) and the Bead of Smiting (-16800 gp) to leave just the Bead of Karma = 25800 - 9000 - 16800 = 0 gp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif. I'll take a few thousand of those for +4 caster level all day long, please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif As strange as it seems, this has not been errataed, but I won't object to paying the 20000 cost that is indicated by the reduction for when the Bead of Karma is missing.

Now I just need to learn Righteous Might so I can craft it. I haven't used the option of switching out a spell known on level up to 14th yet, can I do that now? I can already craft the Ioun Stone, as no requirement beyond caster level 12 and Craft Wondrous Item is listed for any of them.

[douglas]

Violist said:
I know Cat's Grace, so I could help you out there, and if I took another level of Wizard now and did Archmage instead of Wizard 16, I could get the Craft Magic Items and Armor feat... but I'm not sure how helpful that'd be in comparison to some other things I could do.


You also get a feat for character level 15, so you'd get two feats for this level if you put off Archmage to level 16.

The bonus Wizard feat has to be item creation, metamagic, or Spell Mastery. Spell Mastery would be a useful precaution in case of spellbook theft, but it's only for a very limited number of spells and your spellbook should be pretty hard to steal if you guard it right. You haven't used either of your current metamagic feats, and you haven't given any indication of wanting more of them or aiming for anything in particular with prereqs, so that option doesn't seem very useful. That leaves item creation, unless you disagree with my analysis.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Oh, the Ioun stone and the Headband bonuses don't stack? grrr, nevermind then. While the +1 Caster Level stone would be nice, as you've said, Jason is probably in more need of it than I.

What exactly is involved in the Archmage Academy thing?


DM fiat; Presitge classes are listed as an optional rule the DM must consider carefully; my take? You'd have to work for it - in this case, researching it's existance, finding someone who is already a member to tell you where to go (other than the lower planes, of course), getting there, and convincing the higher-ups that you are completely qualified.
Violist said:

I know Cat's Grace, so I could help you out there, and if I took another level of Wizard now and did Archmage instead of Wizard 16, I could get the Craft Magic Items and Armor feat... but I'm not sure how helpful that'd be in comparison to some other things I could do.

Well, at 15th, you also get a character level feat; two feats immediately if you take a level of wizard now.


douglas said:
I still need to level up before I'd get all the way to CL 20, but yes, that would be a useful investment. Hmm, Strand of Prayer Beads = 25800 gp. Take off the Bead of Healing (-9000 gp) and the Bead of Smiting (-16800 gp) to leave just the Bead of Karma = 25800 - 9000 - 16800 = 0 gp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif. I'll take a few thousand of those for +4 caster level all day long, please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif As strange as it seems, this has not been errataed,

... which is one of the things a DM is for....
douglas said:
but I won't object to paying the 20000 cost that is indicated by the reduction for when the Bead of Karma is missing.


That works.
douglas said:

Now I just need to learn Righteous Might so I can craft it. I haven't used the option of switching out a spell known on level up to 14th yet, can I do that now?

Yeah; sure. I'm flexible. I'm slightly curious, too, as to what you will be swapping out....
douglas said:
I can already craft the Ioun Stone, as no requirement beyond caster level 12 and Craft Wondrous Item is listed for any of them.

Yes, you can.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
DM fiat; Presitge classes are listed as an optional rule the DM must consider carefully; my take? You'd have to work for it - in this case, researching it's existance, finding someone who is already a member to tell you where to go (other than the lower planes, of course), getting there, and convincing the higher-ups that you are completely qualified.


I'd think a Knowledge: Arcana check would be enough to get started on the search for its existence and finding a member, but we'd still have to do a significant side quest for it. Might take a little while, but we've learned the Sorcerer can't complete his plot without interrogating a certain party member, and if the whole party goes... Details to be revealed in game, of course.

Jack Simth said:
Yeah; sure. I'm flexible. I'm slightly curious, too, as to what you will be swapping out....


Who needs Raise Dead when you have Resurrection? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
I'd think a Knowledge: Arcana check would be enough to get started on the search for its existence and finding a member

Depends entirely on how much time I want into it; Knoweledge Arcana might just give the name of an Archmage; then again, it might just give knoweledge that Archmages exist, while once known, a Knoweledge: History might give an idea on what regions have had Archmages in the past, and once there, Knoweledge (Local) or perhaps Knoweledge (Nobility and Royalty) might be used to find a specific person who is likely to know the next step....
douglas said:
, but we'd still have to do a significant side quest for it. Might take a little while, but we've learned the Sorcerer can't complete his plot without interrogating a certain party member, and if the whole party goes... Details to be revealed in game, of course.


Once I come up with them, yes.
douglas said:
Who needs Raise Dead when you have Resurrection? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Someone with only 5,000 gp to spare for diamonds?

[Violist]

Ahh, that idea for Prestige classes makes sense. Quicken spell is actually a highly tempting feat... the idea of hitting some creature with multiple evil spells in one round is somehow appealing to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Seems it'd be best to hold off on Archmage for one more level, at least 'til we've gotten ourselves buffed up in case we run into any more underrated encounters.

You're right about not using those two Metamagic feats... when I selected them I was going for least increase in spell levels... I could use the Limited Wish thing to swap them out for item creation feats, which, given the current state of the party, seems more useful.

So.. take a level in Wizard, end up with feats:
-Quicken Spell (levelling)
-Craft Magic Items and Armor (levelling)
-Heighten Spell (limited wish, useful for getting the DC up)
-{ItemCreation or MaximizeSpell} (limited wish, not decided which yet)

[douglas]

Violist said:
Ahh, that idea for Prestige classes makes sense. Quicken spell is actually a highly tempting feat... the idea of hitting some creature with multiple evil spells in one round is somehow appealing to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif


Quicken Spell could be useful, but it's rather expensive in terms of spell level cost. You'd have to use a 7th level spell slot just to toss out a 3rd level Quickened Fireball.


Violist said:
You're right about not using those two Metamagic feats... when I selected them I was going for least increase in spell levels... I could use the Limited Wish thing to swap them out for item creation feats, which, given the current state of the party, seems more useful.


Limited Wish will have to wait a bit, though, as it costs a minimum of 300 xp and you only have 38 above the minimum for 15th level.


Violist said:
So.. take a level in Wizard, end up with feats:
-Quicken Spell (levelling)
-Craft Magic Items and Armor (levelling)
-Heighten Spell (limited wish, useful for getting the DC up)
-{ItemCreation or MaximizeSpell} (limited wish, not decided which yet)


I've never really seen the point of Heighten Spell. Yes, it increases the save DC, but you could get the same increase in DC and get a host of other benefits at the same time for the same cost by simply casting a higher level spell.

Maximize Spell has a pretty narrow range of usefulness, I think. A Maximized Fireball would do approximately the average damage of a 17d6 damage spell. At your current caster level that makes it slightly more damage to a single target than Chain Lightning, which takes up the same level spell slot. For hitting many targets, that's only 2 dice more than Freezing Sphere, and it has a lower save DC. Disintigrate is also the same level.

Forge Ring would cover pretty much every remaining permanently equipped kind of magic item. Craft Rod would allow making the metamagic rods, though you need the metamagic feat in question too.

[Violist]

Although the type of enemy we've been fighting tends to appear in small groups - and I particularly didn't like being panicked.

Although, perhaps you're right... crafting feats and then spending XP to get some nifty magic equipment... so many options available. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif Ah well, nothing I've been doing is set in stone yet.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Although the type of enemy we've been fighting tends to appear in small groups - and I particularly didn't like being panicked.


For that, convince the Favored Soul to pick up Hero's Feast, and get him to cast it for you every morning and every evening ... and never get panicked again!

[NullAshton]

My wealth-collecting has started. MUUWAAHAAHAA.

[Violist]

Wealth collecting? Sheesh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Ought to collect items of intrinsic merit, like artwork and shiny gems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Try eating those. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Violist]

*chomp chomp* Tastes like... metal... I should have a Vaarsuvius moment and determine that a silver necklace posesses the key to ultimate destructive power or something.

[NullAshton]

You know, I am of the opinion that Vaarsuvius is female. She just seems vemale, that's all.

[Violist]

I'd prefer V being female, that's for sure. Do you have any ideas for this campaign you're thinking of GMing? That reminds me... we've seen teh Dragon, now where's the Dungeon? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

I've been hitting you with small dungeons so far - you know, those fun places where rocks drop out of the ceiling, clog the pit you skipped over earlier, then fall 100 feet the moment you walk over them?

[Violist]

Er.... yes... we'll just gloss over that one, shall we? I thought dungeons had more... manacles and stuff, but I'm probably just getting mixed up as usual.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Dungeons, in D&D, are any place you find monsters, traps and/or gold.

[Jack Simth]

Ahh... you are looking for something more along the lines of a prison... hmm... could work the orcs in that way... arrest the elvish sparkcaster... ask the paladin if there's a elf matching the description in the party... perhaps something about a raid on an orcish villiage years ago... of course, orcs are listed as "Often chaotic evil" ... they might miss the little instruction from their clerics that they are supposed to remove the target's pouches... but remember to get the books... could be fun... but I've been thinking about an old song lately that might make for an interesting plot line.... hmm....

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Why not some innocent orcs held prisoner by evil elves?

[Jack Simth]

Mostly? A little too anti-cliche, if that makes any sense.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yeah, it does.

[Violist]

Hmm... I could go along with fighting drows, and it'd make an interesting change of pace from demons.

[Jack Simth]

... and all that lovely SR on each one... added in with their inherent proclivities to magic...

... well, something for after... having fun painting scenes for the song-inspired plot at the moment...

You might recognize it before they start singing...

[Violist]

Suddenly the thread has gotten all quiet... discomforting considering the hubbub right after each session http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

We're hunting wabbits

[Violist]

So... usual starting times tomorrow? 1200 PST, 1500 EST?

[NullAshton]

I'd like to start at 1300 EST next time, we get more done.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... everyone's online... well, now's as good a time as any to set the schedual, I suppose. 13 EST that's... 10 PST? Doable, if everyone's fine with it.

[NullAshton]

Same as last time.

[douglas]

That works for me. Also, I'll have to stop shortly after 1800 EST. I've got an extra long weekend of no classes at college, and I'm taking advantage of it to visit home.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Sure.

[NullAshton]

As long as you can be NPCed, I'm happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And as long as I can do the great warping thingie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Actually, I've got a nephews' birthday tommorrow. Somehow, I didn't put the two events together.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... and the side quest was set up specifically to pit the Paladin's Good portion of his alignment up against the Lawful portion of his alignment (there's enough Chaotics in the party that I don't really expect that to be an issue... but fun to do on occasion). Oh well, another day; the new node will keep.

Oh, and Null - Douglas plays the Favored Soul, and it would be the Wizardess (played by Violist) telling the laws of physics to sit down, shut up, and beg for sweet mercy while she Greatly Warped your character.

[NullAshton]

Bah. So we have to wait today until next week?

[Violist]

Wow, 18 consecutive hours of sleep plus a ton of naps friday... So, 10 PST works, but I'm not sure if we're even on... heh, oh well. Whatever time (today, next week) should be fine as long as I don't sleep through the discussion again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

Well, all players have now chimed in with the go ahead; 10:00 am Pacific it shall be.

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Today's random: [100d20] -> (1173)

[NullAshton]

I'd kinda like it if this session was shorter than normal, however.Since not many of the players will be avaliable, we could probally get done before douglas has to leave.