Early Expansion Question

[OmikronWarrior]

To state the obvious: more=better(usually).

The game can be divided, roughly, into phases:

First phase- Taking Independent territories. The goal is to grab as many of these as possible. Depending on map size and starting position, this ends maybe around turn 12. Regardless, few nations are going to go to war when there are still indies to grab. A territory is a territory, and going after the territories somebody else has lets a third party grab the indies in the meantime.

Second Phase- Warfare based on national troops. Now that the indies are gone, a player has two options, peace or invade. Being Peaceful can be viable during the second phase, but only if its spend researching, site searching, etc. Merely defending attacks from an aggressive player is probably bad, as it will drain resources with out actually gaining you anything. Regardless, what fighting there is, is relatively low magic. Some nations might be able to mass produce sacred troops for a high bless, but mostly its going to be your normal troops trying to outmatch another guys troops. Thats not to say magic won't be used in this phase, it will be, but in general you fight with what you're given.

Third Phase- Magic becomes paramount. Summons, Globals, battlefield wide enchantments make any national army weak by itself. National troops still used, but only in support rolls. Thugs, SC, and items are the real resources.

Now, with all that in mind, DON'T FORGET ABOUT DIPLOMACY. If you're the biggest nation on the block, you also have the biggest target on your back. The second and third sized nations are going to start planning their strategies around you exclusively. Also, it may be wise to pass up some territories, because it will have you border more nations, which may force you into unnecessary conflict, or force you to defend beyond strategic chokepoints. Also, whatever you take you must be able to afford to defend. Whats the point of beating up on indies, when a well thought out enemy army can march right to your capital.

Other factors to consider: scales. Those with negative scales have to fight with fewer resources, and NEED more provinces to compete, fancy blesses not withstanding.

[KissBlade]

Most nations average 2 a turn with a pretender taking provinces and then their main army going for another route. Three a turn is relatively unrealistic in MP due to the likelihood of getting ganged if you expand that quickly. Though in the past uber bless strats have been able to defend pretty well, often there's player talent involved in that to make such strats relatively unsafe for most beginning players. An expansion rate of one - two provinces a turn is best though don't be too worried if you get off to a slow start, usually you can wrestle provinces away if you make some good plays against weaker players anyway.

[Velusion]

KissBlade said:
Three a turn is relatively unrealistic in MP due to the likelihood of getting ganged if you expand that quickly.

I should emphasize that when I say 3/turn on turn 7 I'm talking best case scenario. Usually geography/unlucky indy placement will force me to take less.

I usually run a pretty diplomatic intensive game - so I'm typically not too concerned about being ganged up on... but then I tend to play in large games where it's difficult to be singled out early amongst so many players.

[Lord_Bob]

My play doesn't use elephants for Patala, till turn 8. HOWEVER, while I will only have one expansion force until turn 8, on turn 8 I should have 4 expansions forces ready to attack, 3 starting at the capital though, and be able to field a new expansion force every turn capable of defeating any indie without casualities.

The problem is the candle doesn't get lit till Turn 8.

Is that way to late? I have a feeling it is.

[Aristander]

I have only played 2 multiplayer games but my experience is that you must start taking areas by turn 3. Don't get me wrong I am not saying you need to take at least 1 territory every turn after turn 3. However should need to start.
Do not forget Mercenaries they can be a great help the first couple of turns.
Early conquest around your capital dramatically helps with money and resources.
The 10 provinces in the first year is a good guide.
Some players like to make their scout the prophet to help get a jump on expansion.
Most players crank up the tax rate and patrol with your army the first turn.

[Endoperez]

He did have ONE expansion force before turn 8.

This depends on the amount of provinces you expect can be conquered before meeting another human. In very small games, that'd be too long. In longer games, it might work out okay. And if everything went just right, someone might attack you on turn 8 due to you being slow in the first turns, and then be pummeled into submission in a vicious counter-attack. Gandalf has mentioned a "breaking the dam" tactic that consists of gathering your forces in a relatively small space, waiting for someone to "break through" the indies, and then quickly annihilitaing his primary army and going for his lands. You might want to experiment with that. I doubt you could reliably win games with that tactic, but it could work the first few times.

[Edi]

One question I would like to ask the peole here, what sort of independent strength are you used to playing with? The default strength 5 indies are pathetically weak, while indie strength 7 actually makes planning your indie conquests important unless you're using superb sacreds or a SC pretender.

What is the most common indeps setting in MP?

[Edratman]

As a SP I have some questions.

1. I read somewhere, sometime, that in MP idies are kept at default of 5. Is that so? (I play at indies 9, for no reason other than that is the way my game style developed, but I have trouble making 3 unbeatable armies by turn 8.)
2. If indies are set at 5, what is the reason? Is it because it was the easiest choice to make or because indies at 9 would handicap too many nations with weak national troops.
3. Do you sacrifice almost all research in the opening phase by commiting every piece of gold to troops and commanders?
4. Do you garrison or PD conquered indies with anything more than a mere token force to maximize capitol troop purchases? If so, is this done as a tacit acknowledgment that your neighbors probably will not attack you until phase two starts?

[Lord_Bob]

Have you submitted your pretender?

It doesn't show on the site. However, there wrere a few posts about something being wrong on the BAG thread.

My first expansion army begins attacking on Turn 2.

The others don't get started till Turn 8. But I should be able to take 3 provinces on Turn 8 easily. In a perfect world, I could take 4 provinces of any type. But the world isn't perfect, so call it 3.

[thejeff]

I don't think you get different poptypes, and thus different indy mages, at higher indy strength levels.

Or do you just mean the defending indies have some insane mages?