OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

[NullAshton]

I vote for Quinn too!

[NullAshton]

Hmmm... maybe the party should use Control Weather some, to get some water?

[Violist]

Would it be possible to Wish or Miracle up 25,000 gp worth of seeds? Maybe research a version of Plant Growth designed to start growth in barren lands.

Well, a Mittens of Toughness +6 would help your HP quite a bit... Armor doesn't interfere with psionics, does it? I'd take advantage of that if I were you.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I dunno - Would that mess things up more?

Or Reality Revision.

Heey, we just got 5,000XP...Coincidence?

I dunno - I'd have to read the rules again. Hmm...Armoured cat...Yeah, I think that people would notice.

*Clank*'Meow'*Clank*

[NullAshton]

*kick* MEOOOOOW!

Hehe. Yeah, I'd go with being armorless for now, if only for flavor reasons.

[Violist]

Mmm, Reality Revision... hmm, as a cat, hostiles aren't likely to think you're a primary target, are they? Might be able to avoid a fair number of hits that way...

[Jack Simth]

Let's see... putting 17 Power Points into Inertial Armor gives you an armor bonus of... +12; the equivalent of +4 Fullplate, only without the dex penalty, ACP, worries about incorporeal touch attacks, et cetera. Lasts 1 hour per manifester level - so 18 hours. If you happen to take Overchannel and Talented, you can manifest it as a Psion-21, push 21 PP's into it, and get 21 hours of +14 armor bonus (+6 Fullplate equivalent).

Force Screen is similar, but it scales at +4, rather than +2, and it's one minute/level, so 17 power points gets you +8 Shield for 18 minutes; a Talented Overchannelled version for 21 power points gets you +9 Shield for 21 minutes. Between the two, you're getting +23 to your AC.

Thicken Skin gives you natural armor for 10 minutes/level (3 hours at 18th). Spending 16 PP's on it gets you +6 Natural Armor for 3 hours. Again, a first level power, so you could do a Talented Overchannel for 19 pp's, manifester level 21, and get +7 natural armor for 3.5 hours.

If you push it, you can get +44 AC just from those three, for a time, spending 61 power points (and your Psionic focus three times....).

Defensive Precognition (also a 1st level power... noticing a pattern here?) applies to both AC and saving throws. 1 minute/level, though. Still, with a Talented Overchanneled Defensive Precognition, you can spend 19 PP to get +7 to AC and saves - Insight, so it stacks with the above three. Inertial Armor in the morning, Thicken Skin just before going into a hostile area, and Defensive Precognition + Force Screen immediately before a battle... well, 80 PP's for +53 AC. As you're Tiny already, you could put Mr. T out of the range of "don't roll a 1" with a bit of prep and effort. Of course, then he'll just grapple you... but that's what Psionic Freedom of Movement is for.

I don't advise armor, bracers, shield, or an amulet of natural armor. You can do better yourself.

Vigor only lasts 1 minute per manifester level, but at 5 temporary HP per power point, one manifestation can net you something like 90 temporary HP.

Body Adjustment is handy, as is True Metabolism (and both for the same reason).

Affinity Field lets you share Body Adjustment, and be nearly as good a HP healer as Elorin.

You may want to look through the Incarnate list, and note that it doesn't care if the original power was augmented or not.

With the 5,000 xp you just gained, you could Incarnate:
Detect Psionics (Detect Magic, essentially; 500 xp)
Detect Teleporation (500 xp)
Know Direction And Location (500 xp)
Psionic Tongues (1,000 xp)
Psionic Darkvision (1,500 xp)

I would suggest Psychic Reformation - it's always handy to be able to fix an "I never use that" or a "Man, it'd be really nice if I had..." in character. Also applies to skills and feats.

As for magic items...

Thematically, I'd actually suggest stacking everything you finally choose with the +50% surcharge onto one collar (+100%, for things that are also off-slot). Partialy because a tiny cat is going to be missing several body slots, partially because you don't want to stand out too much.

In line with not standing out too much, you'll want max ranks in Concentration. To suppress displays, mostly. When the cat makes eerie sounds and flashes odd colors (auditory and visual display) everyone pays attention. When a cat sits there staring off into space, nobody cares.

As for Wishing up 25,000 gp worth of seeds - no problem. Of course, you could probably have some of the (many) Celestial Dire Badgers dig them up...

[Violist]

That's... quite a fair bit of AC there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Thanks, all of that sounds great.

/me wonders what the downside to being a psionic is...

[Jack Simth]

Power Point Management.

A Psion-18 with an Int of 32 gets a scant 379 power points per day. Assuming 4 encounters per day, four encounter per 1 hour/level manifestation, two encounters per 10 min/level manifestation, one encounter per 1 min/level manifestation, keeping that AC up for four encounters costs 21+4*21+2*19+4*19=219 power points. If you tack on Vigor for 90 temporary HP per battle, you've got another 4*18=72 pp's spent. Leaving you with 88 for offensive measures.

Psions have endurance issues.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Hmm, yes. And the item I saw that stored power points doesn't hold much.

Thanks, guys.

[Jack Simth]

And to top it off, they STORE power points - they don't generate them.

[NullAshton]

Psions, however, have flexibility. 379 power points is enough for 22.3 effective level 9 powers. How many non-epic wizards do you know of that are capable of casting 22 level 9 spells a day?

[Violist]

Of course, our combats tend to be pretty short... the worst situation for ammunition I can recall was that one jailbreak day, with the pit fiend and the 3 balors in one day... I was definitely running low on blasting power then. 22 rounds is quite a bit.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton: Quite a few, actually; they just have to prepare in advance by making scrolls and/or staves of the spell they want 22 of. As more psionic powers than spells have XP costs, the cost for storing the spell like that is going to roughly balance out. A 50-charge, single-spell staff of a 9th level spell costs 17*9*750=114,750 gp (market). A 50-charge, single-spell staff of a 9th level spell that costs 2 charges per activation (25 uses) costs half that, or 57,375 gp (market). Sure, it takes the Wizard 2 months to set it up.... but it has some advantages (free scaling on caster level and save DC, for the staff).

[NullAshton]

Mostly the psionic powers that need XP would cost gold otherwise, though. Like True Metamorphosis, the arcane equivalent of that needs an expensive focus.

[Jack Simth]

Yeah. The wizard, for a one-time price, can cast Shapechange as often as desired.

The Psion that just barely managed to level up can't manifest True Metamorphosis at all.

[NullAshton]

But at high levels, 200 XP isn't all that much. Though it doesn't last as long... hmmm...

There's still other spells, anyhow.

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, there are. The Psion has an advantage over the Wizard in short-term flexibility (most the energy powers, for instance, have selectable elements - and saves; Fort for cold (Evade This! - doesn't work so hot on Kibin, though), reflex for most).

The Wizard has an advantage over the Psion in long-term flexibility; the Wizard can "know" any number of spells (in the spellbook) and entirely change character from one day to the next. The Psion needs Psychic Reformation to do that... which costs XP.

Of course, the Psion is much less wealth-dependant than the Wizard (no Psionic power costs XP).

But a Wizard can do more total in a given day (due to free damage scaling - a 9th level Wizard's fireball does 9d6 damage for a 3rd level spell slot; a 9th level Psion needs to spend 9 power points to deal 9d6 damage with a simple power manifestation).

You can go back and forth for a while.

[NullAshton]

There's something the psion can do that the wizard can NEVER do(without Complete Arcane)

Contingent temporal acceleration. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Yay 6 rounds of free time on any condition you choose!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...I have Complete Arcane. Maybe buy Complete Psionic...

[NullAshton]

See, temporal acceleration is a 6th level power. That makes psionic contingency able to use it.

Don't you just LOVE augmentation?

[Jack Simth]

And hey, only 15 xp/manifestation!

Do be careful, though; you can only have one contingency active at a time (Without Craft Contingent spell, anyway, which isn't on my source list) and they go off when the circumstances occur whether you like it or not... and convoluted circumstances are listed in the power description as potentially causing it to fail. The definition of "convoluted" being up to the DM. Still, a Contingent Temporal Acceleration isn't liable to cause undue embarassment (as would, say, a Contingent Resilient Sphere).

But yes, it remains a 6th level power under the same rules that cause a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability to ruin a high AC Psion's day.

[NullAshton]

Still a lot of psionic effects above 4th level...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Hmm, languages...

Feline, of course...Draconic? Celestial seems a good choice, with the plane hopping we sometimes do...How many languages does she get?

Goblin, so she can talk to most humanoid monsters...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton: Yes, but most of those aren't particularly defensive against a meleer. I suppose it's really the Melee Cleric or Gish with a lesser Globe of Invulnerability (or the normal kind) that ruins a Psion's day. Sure, Power Resistance and Reddopsi can do a number on a spellcaster, but most the AC boosters are 1st and 2nd level powers.

Narf: Feline (which isn't particularly useful, as there won't be many talking cats), plus one per point of starting inteligence bonus (so five, total), plus one for every two skill points you spend on Speak Language (it's a cross-class skill for most Psions, as I recall)

[NullAshton]

It's starting intelligence, thus it would be the intelligence you would have at the start. I don't think the tome would count any, plus intelligence bonuses from level up...

[Violist]

If a feat is a prereq for taking levels in a PrC, is it possible to lose that feat later on? Specifically, Energy Substitution isn't doing me any good since all my energy spells are automatically electric, so if I duplicated a Psychic Reformation with Limited Wish, could I replace that with something more currently useful, like Spell Penetration?

It'd be 800 XP for the 3rd level feat.

[NullAshton]

I'm pretty sure that it would be impossible to do something like that, since it basically just alters the choices you made during leveling up.

Hmmmm... I'd kind of like to know, too. Apparently since Kibin now has a base dexterity of 10, he can only use his Dodge feat with gloves of dexterity...

[Jack Simth]

With feats, it's explicitly spelled out; if you no longer meet a prerequisite, the feat doesn't function. Which means Ray of Enfeeblement is really, really mean to anyone relying on Power Attack.

With PrC's, it's not spelled out (at least, not 3.5 Core; 3.0 spelled it out, and 3.5 Complete Adventurer spells it out, but then such PrC's as the Dragon Disciple stand as nifty counterexamples).

However, part of what balance there is in PrC's is that their prerequisites pose an opportunity cost (feats, skill points, et cetera).

So, for my gameworld, when a pre-requisite for a PrC is torn from you (e.g., a Blackguard is hit with a Ray of Enfeeblement, and loseses access to Power Attack) you keep class features, but can't advance in the PrC until it's restored.

If you voluntarily lose a prerequisite, you lose class features until it's restored.

If the PrC itself causes you to lose the prerequisite (as in the case of a 10th level Dragon Disciple) you're fine.

In other words, no Limited Wishing away the now-useless feat.

[Violist]

Awh. Well, that makes sense.

[NullAshton]

I'm going to miss Kaylin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[NullAshton]

Don't forget D&D this Saturday!

[Violist]

I'm feeling slightly ill, like I'm coming down with something. I may or may not be present, depending on how well I am tomorrow.

[Jack Simth]

Well, there goes my plan for 8.5 hours from now. Side-quest it is.

[douglas]

I'm not sick, just tired. I might show up after a nap.

[Jack Simth]

Well, server online.

[Violist]

Lots of wildlife in these far-off times... fun mini-campaign http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

*crash* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

One nominally CR 24 critter escaped; half XP.
ECL 21: Hmm... don't have the Epic XP tables handy. Oh well, estimated at 1400 xp.
ECL 20: 2400 xp,
ECl 19: 3420 xp
ECL 18: 4320 xp

Two votes for Quinn, uncontested; 3,000 bonus xp.



Two CR 1 Hyenas,
One CR 3 Ogre,
And one CR 2 Monitor Lizard defeated by Ixenlani and Jarvis,
1050 xp each

So, who roleplayed best these sessions?

Log attached.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Things Adventuring Parties Should Do:

1) Do not break the law.
2) If you must break the law, first research the legal system of the area, including its penalties, the best legal defences and how efficient it is.
3) There shall be no negociation with evil people trying to obtain ultimate power. All such people shall be slain at the earliest and best opportunity.
4) An apocalypse is not an excuse to let them gain ultimate power; it'll just make things worse.
5) Listen to the cat, for the cat is smarter than you.

(Quinn insisted I add that last. Pushy cats...)

[NullAshton]

*still needs to tweak his subtle hint-o-meter*

[Jack Simth]

Subtle?

You sure the hints I dropped were subtle?

The prophecy stated - quite clearly, mind - that they goofed it, and brought about a rather nasty turn of events.

I stopped and rolled a 1 when Wiz checked on things.

I stopped and asked - specifically, about two or three times - during the ceremony if anyone was going to intervene.

I was concerned that I was being a bit too obvious.

[NullAshton]

I thought the prophecy was something that's already happened, not something that would have happened...

[NullAshton]

Don't forget about D&D this Saturday!

[Violist]

I will be some amount of time late on Saturday, as I've been scheduled to play in a music competition at 10:24 AM (PST). Should be able to get back to the computer by 11:00, though.

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Probably a good time to reset the router, just to cut down on crashes, later....

Edit:
Oh, and Violist - Knock 'em deaf.

[Jack Simth]

No RP votes; oh well. Main campaign didn't get off the ground.

Mini campaign:
three CR 1 Mad Camels, four CR 1 Hyenas, 700 xp each (ogre took a share).

[Violist]

Well, nothing main-campaign to vote for... if we can, I'm voting Ixenlani for mini-session RP.

[NullAshton]

I'm voting Jarvis then because... it's the only person who I can vote for.

[Violist]

*hi-five*

I really hope we can get the regular game going next time, though...

[NullAshton]

Yup.

Kind of sad that I haven't gotten to use my epic feat yet, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Sorry again. I should have mentioned it earlier. My only excuse is a hectic week.

[NullAshton]

Don't forget about D&D this Saturday!!

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, that would be a bad idea. Probably don't want to miss out.

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Mwahahahahah.....

[douglas]

Sorry, but I have a project due Monday that I haven't done enough work on and I'm getting behind on my part of my Senior Design project. Too much work to do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

1 CR 24 (give or take) King killed (preseumably, anyway; that was a pretty large mountain....). One Ehlonnia dinner interrupted.

Everyone stranded nowhere.

10,800 xp to Quin Padfoot (18th - hey; pays off both Reality revisions!)
4,725 to Kibin
6,000 to Jason (20th)
6,000 to Seshra (20th?)

Log hopefully attached.

Tie for mini-campaign; 750 bonus XP each to Ixenlani and Jarvis.

So, not that it matters overly much, but who roleplayed best this session?

[Jack Simth]

So, where do we go from here?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...That's a song.

Aside from that, my brain is fried.

[NullAshton]

Hmmmm... Apparently most of the rules are in another rulebook, which I don't have. So matrixy campaign will have to wait.

[Jack Simth]

That does put a crimp on things, yes.

It would probably be a good idea to decide:
1) Who's going to be GMing,
2) What system and
3) What level
in advance of Saturday, though. Just so everyone can have characters on hand at the time.
Edit: Also, of course, cheese tolerance, optimization expectation, and any variant rules, as well as sources....

[NullAshton]

I could run that level 9 D&D adventure. Optimization... eh, if you want to. Cheese tolerance, please no cheese. Variant rules... base rules. Sources... all four base complete series, core of course, dragonomicon, and possibly the book of exalted deeds and that vile darkness book. As well as a few oddball books like Ghostwalk.

If that's okay, that is. I must get experience being the DM!

[Violist]

That sounds good... Might be interesting to rotate GMs, too. What kind of stats? 4d6 drop lowest? point-buy?

In any case, many thanks to Jack for running a great campaign for so long. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thoroughly enjoyed it

[NullAshton]

28 point buy is good.

I'd like it if you used some sort of online character sheet things, that way I could look at them before Saturday.

[Jack Simth]

I'll attach what I actually use - which includes full notes.

I call it cheese tolerance because different people have different definitions of how different things get before they are cheese - the Polymorph line, for example, can very easily drip cheese; there are few obstacles that four Polymorphs in quick succession can't bypass; the ability to pick and choose out of most the monster manual is very, very strong very very easily. For the same reason, the Planar Binding and Planar Ally line of spells are rather buff.

edit: I made a transcription error - in the detail, it's a normal dagger with Continual Flame, in the top summery, it's a masterwork dagger with Continual Flame; fixed, it's the normal dagger

[NullAshton]

Um... persistent divine metamagic bells are ringing all over my mind when I'm looking at your character sheet....

[Jack Simth]

Did you read the assorted tactics sections and the "Party role and Balance Justification for the Persistant Mass Lesser Vigor cheese" sections, or just the stat blocks?

[NullAshton]

...hmmm, okay. 1 point of healing a round isn't THAT bad, and in turn you get no turning attempts in case there's undead.

[Jack Simth]

Pretty much. My goal was to make the fighter and rogue of the party a bit more attractive to other players (they can keep it up all day) and have a flavorfull character.

If you'd prefer, I could use the attached - pure Core, even. Haven't named him yet, though.

[NullAshton]

It seems okay, the non-core one. Now I just need other characters...

[Jack Simth]

So we have a heal-bot. Now we need a meatshield, a sneak, and a sparkcaster. Hmm.... I suppose I could write up a couple generic characters, for a quick "here, try this" approach if someone shows up without one...

Edit: Sneaky McStabsALot attached

[NullAshton]

One neat idea for a level 9ish rogue is a half dragon/fighter 1/rogue in full plate. Sort of weak, and loses evasion, but can do insane amounts of damage in melee. Bastard sword, claw, and bite combo!

[Jack Simth]

As a melee build, yes; as a rogue build, not so much. The +3 LA and dip into fighter cuts heavily into skill points and max ranks. Now, the Sorcerer-1/Fighter-1/Rogue 5/Dragon Disciple-2, on the other hand, gets all the natural weapon goodness without dropping skill point caps....

Edit: Shorty McCleavesALot attached

Edit 2: Blech; I'm getting a little fatigued; anyone care to make a generic arcanist?

Edit 3: Oh, and have you noticed a pattern? All my characters have a way to become invisible and fly without other's help, even if it's only once or twice by way of potions. Likewise, they all have Handy Haversacks.

[Violist]

Well, I was planning on going for an archer type, although if that threatens party balance I don't mind changing.

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=11934

Edit: I'll see what I can do about generic arcanist tonight.

[Jack Simth]

Oh, that'll replace Shorty McCleavesALot fairly well. Oh, and a minor nitpick (in your favor, such as it is): normal worn clothing isn't encumbering. The 8 pounds of the Explorer's Outfit don't actually slow Kethama down any.

Edit: And not that the two pounds makes a difference, by why are the arrows not in the quiver?

[Violist]

60 arrow limit in the quiver, as I read it. And it's never good to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. Oh, and I recall seeing that arrows come in a quiver for 20 anyways.

[Jack Simth]

Ah, it's FULL. Gotcha.

And yeah - an AMF closing off your arrow supply would ruin your day, wouldn't it?

[Violist]

OK, quickie gnome wizard. See you tomorrow!

http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Hityob.html

[NullAshton]

What's that Order of the Bow initiate stuff?

[Jack Simth]

Okay. And now we have a Squishy McBigBrain. Full set, in case someone forgets to bring a character sheet.

[Jack Simth]

Well, server online. Where is everyone?

[Jack Simth]

Server closed. A couple of Giant Spiders and Ettercaps slain, one helpless traveler uncocooned.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Sorry, I wasn't feeling to good on saturday. Spent part of the day unconscious and forgetting about game night.

Actually, I havn't been feeling too good for a couple weeks.

Anyway, I hate to say this, but you seem to be having fun with D&D and, well, I've sort of burnt out on D&D...So, uh, have fun slaughtering the monsters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Violist]

So we should probably be looking around for another player...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I can change the thread title?

[NullAshton]

Well, since narf is gone... ways to change the campaign into a gestalt campaign. Hmmmmm...

I could always have you suspend your level 9 characters and make new gestalt character, but you already made your characters and didn't do much with them...

Start over again with level 5 gestalt characters, or continue with your level 9 characters?

[Jack Simth]

Eh, either way.

And changing the thread title is fine.

[NullAshton]

WHOOO LOONEY!

Okay, Violists decision then. I'd prefer 5th level gestalt as gestalt is generally better for two players... and saves me from random plot device to make existing players gestalt.

[Violist]

Level 5 Gestalt works fine, although I think it'd be better if we could find some other players... 2 is kinda few. Haven't found anyone interested yet, though.

How about if there aren't any others by, oh, Thursday eve, we go with level 5 gestalt?

[NullAshton]

Okay, sure.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... with two players, that means we both have to fill two roles (of Meatshield, Heal-bot, sneak, and sparkcaster), which puts a bit of a crimp on things.

So, Violist - what roles would you like to fill?

[NullAshton]

I'll keep gestalt CR rules in mind. With two players, that would be +1 to the CR, unless it relies on life threatening saving rolls, in which it would be same CR.

[Jack Simth]

Almost right.

Missing two players, you would normally subtract 2 from the CR of critters you throw at the party and expect to do "normal" stuff. So if the appropriet challenge for a party of four would call for a single CR 6 critter, you instead need a CR 4 critter.

With gestalt, you throw things that are CR +1 if they don't particularly rely on abilities with saves, CR +2 if they do. If the appropriet challeng for a party of four would call for a single CR 4 "fighter" critter (no "save or" effects), you use a CR 5 "fighter" critter instead. If the appropriate challenge for four would be a single CR 4 "mage" critter (lots of "save or" effects), you use a single CR 6 "mage" critter instead.

Merging the two, it's CR -1 for things that don't particularly rely on abilities with saves, CR for things that do.

Violist:
Idea: We both put Druid on one side, for the animal companion to round out the combat ability of the party. An Ape makes a half-fighter (especially when Trained for War (the Combat Riding general purpose will do that job, right?) for the armor profincy and put in, say, Leather Barding (40 gp) with the Druid Bonus Trick going for the upgraded attack). Put an "exotic pack saddle" (15 gp; could also take an Exotic Military Saddle and Exotic Saddlebags for 64 gp) on the apes, have them carry stuff, dump our characters' strength, and have one of us take the "rogue" half and the other take the "wizard" half (split the healing/buffing). As a bonus, we end up with a "themed" party. Sound like a plan?

[NullAshton]

..yeaaaaah, something like that.

Oh yeah, minor house rule... magic items don't work in wildshape form, even if you take them off then put them back on once wildshaped. One of the 'spirit of the rules' houserules.

[Jack Simth]

At 5th, it's less of an issue, as you can't have Natural Spell (don't get Wildshape until 5th, Natural Spell has Wildshape as a requirement, so you can't take it - ever - until at least character level 6).

Perfectly fine house-rule, though. More of a house interpertation, really; DM gets to dictate what item slots are available on a nonhumanoid.

Edit:
Oh, and you can relax - at their best, the Ape is maybe worth about a 3rd or 4th level NPC Warrior (well, until it starts getting Druid Bonuses, which doesn't happen until later levels - at which point, they are less useful), and it's the Combat Monkey of the available animal companions. Theoretically, at least, it's rolled into the Druid's effectiveness.

[NullAshton]

http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=12694

Yay, it's fun what you make when you're bored, surf the OOTS forums, and decide to make someone happy by making their character. Kobold barbarian that does, like, 134 damage on a critical....

[Violist]

That sounds like a good plan. Mind if I go for the sneak half?

Edit: Oh, Null, same restrictions on sourcebooks?

[Jack Simth]

You can go for the sneak half. That leaves me with the arcane sparkcaster; I should be able to manage it.

Oh, and Nullashton - how do you charge for extra spells beyond the starting and level-up free spells in a Wizard's spellbook?

[NullAshton]

Buy scrolls then scribe it into your spellbook, I suppose.

Yeah, same restrictions on sourcebooks.

[Violist]

Natural Bond feat from Complete Adventurer is perfect for the Ape Plan, I think... adds 3 to effective Druid level for determining bonuses.

[Jack Simth]

Technically, RAW, that works, but it's not balanced.

Said Ape (with the 40 gp leather Barding) would be looking at AC 19, 2 Claws +9 for 1d6+6 and Bite +4 for 1d6+3, saves +7/+8/+3, HP 6d8+15 (42), a bonus feat, and natural reach.

The DMG NPC Barbarian 5, when raging (which he can only do twice per day), is AC 16, Greataxe +12 for 1d12+7, saves +7/+3/+4, HP 53.

Ape hits the barbarian on 7/7/12; average damage per round, ignoring crits, of 14.875; the raging barbarian is expected to go down in about 3.5 rounds.

Barbarian hits the Ape on a 7, for an average damage per round, ignoring crits, of 11.4; the Ape is expected to go down in about 3.7 rounds.

If the NPC barbarian makes the Ape his dodge target, and/or uses the ideal amount of Power Attack, the barbarian will barely win in a straight-up slugfest (although it will be close). But the Ape has evasion, natural reach, a higher Dexterity modifier, and a better grapple check (which makes the Greataxe useless); in a close-quarters fight, the Ape is probably going to win. In a distance fight, the Barbarian is liable to do better thanks to the longbow.

Neither case includes the Druid having any impact on the encounter (Magic Fang, Barkskin, and so on). A class feature should not be matching an entire class at it's specialty with one feat added.

Edit:
That said, in filling multiple roles, we will be stretching the two actual characters, and it'd be a useful advantage.

[Violist]

Nice analysis. Guess I'll leave it up to NA if that's going to be allowable on balance, then.

[Jack Simth]

Well, I haven't worked out encumberance yet, *should* be light for everyone; otherwise finished character sheet attached

[NullAshton]

I think that I'll rule that the natural bond feat raises your effective druid level for bonuses, up to a maximum of your character level. Much like practiced spellcaster.

[Jack Simth]

Okay, is that before, or after, the level adjustment for the advanced animal companions? Would the Natural Bonded Ape of a pureclassed Druid-5 have 4 HD, or 6? That would be worth swapping out Spell Mastry.

Edit:
If it ends up with the 6 HD, Natural Bond version attached.

[NullAshton]

It would be before the level adjustment of advanced animal companions. Giving you normal animal companion progression for up to three levels of another class. So useless unless you have a prestige class that has no animal companion progression, or another class. Like practiced spellcaster.

[Violist]

Yay, Friday and done with classes. I'm exhausted so I need a bit of sleep, but I'll try to have a character fleshed out soon. Already did most of the stat-work and whatnot, but I need to juggle inventory.

Oh, Jack, do you use a program to generate those text charsheets? Those are really neat.

[Jack Simth]

Okay; sticking with Spell Mastry. Final version, then; complete with Height, Weight, encumbrance listing, and languages.

Edit:
Yep. Notepad. Which is why there is occasionally an update error (something changed in one place, but not another).

[Violist]

All right, here's my sneak/healbot.
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=12827

[Jack Simth]

Your Ape's AC should be 16, Touch 11, Flat-Footed 14; you removed the Shared Mage Armor but didn't change the resulting AC.

Copy/Paste is fun, but it can get you in trouble.

We have the same AC! And comperable attack rolls! Nifty.

I haven't rolled them yet, but I suspect I'll end up with more HP. Bizzare.

Oh! I forgot about the Size bonus to attack rolls! (not that the +1 will matter too much, for... 1d6 damage) Updated character sheet attached.

[NullAshton]

...two druids.

Well, THIS is going to be interesting. At least you have four party members now, heh.

[Violist]

Oops. Fixed Ape AC.

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
...two druids.

Well, THIS is going to be interesting. At least you have four party members now, heh.


Two and two-halves, anyway. Look on the bright side - we'll both follow the same plot hooks, for the most part. With a class in common, they can be from the same enclave.

Ageun and Alever won't usually be apart from each other; in most cases, they'll pretty much be treated as one unit (the joys of the Ride skill) including acting on the same initiative.

Hmm... only one level away from an extra feat for the Ape. Which is better - Combat Reflexes, Improved Natural Armor, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, or Improved Grapple? Decisions, decisions....

[NullAshton]

Improved grapple is always good, people hardly ever use it. Of course, multiattack is even better if you have a lot of secondary attacks, as a 15% increase to hit is great.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... does the Ape still need Improved Unarmed Strike as a requirement for Improved Grapple, or do the natural attacks cover it?

[NullAshton]

By the rules you need improved unarmed strike, but I'll waiver that since it does make sense.

[Violist]

Maybe one ape goes for Multiattack and the other for Improved Grapple? Grapple works great for me since it makes sure they stay still long enough to be sudden striked.

[Jack Simth]

Don't forget that it denies them their Dex bonus to AC vs. everyone NOT in the grapple.

Hmm... actually, I don't want to think too hard about what happens to Ageun if Alever is grappling, so strike that option (for mine, anyway).

Number crunching....
Vs. an AC 15 opponent...
Multiattack: Hits on a 6/6/8 for 18.475 damage per round
Improved Natural Attack (Claw) hits on a 6/6/11 for 21.25 damage per round (assuming Improved Natural Attack (Claw) affects both claws); 6/6/11 for 16.3 damage per round if it only affects one.
Weapon Focus (Claw): Hits on a 5/5/11 for 18.45 damage per round.

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Hmm... breakfast....

[NullAshton]

Uh.... can you update to the latest version of OpenRPG, 1.7.1? Can't seem to see your server...

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.

[Jack Simth]

Violist?

[Violist]

Aw, damn, overslept.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed. One insectoid Ogre killed, one driving off. Kibin found out that DMing is difficult at any level (which is a good lesson for a player - don't make the DM's job any harder than it already is). Currently resting in an Extended Rope Trick 30 feet above the treetops.

Negligible loot of two Large Longspears and one Large greatclub.

Any Xp for the session?

[NullAshton]

They're HUGE longspears and greatclubs. The ogres were wielding it as a four-handed weapon, I believe.

A CR of 5, so... 1600 XP, apparently.

[Jack Simth]

How many arms did those things have? Using four to carry the weapons, at least two to climb, plus legs....

So a grand total of 60 gp worth of loot (30, after selling). Lost money on that battle, with the charges from the Wand of Cure Light. Oh well.

Advancement Planning:
Would Improved Natural Attack affect just one claw, or both?

Possible Revisioning / later characters:
How reasonable would it be to gestalt my Familiar and Animal Companion (HP = Animal Companion HD, or Master's, whichever's more, HP = Half masters or calculated for companion with appropriet level of Druid Bonuses, whichever's more, skill ranks = that of a Companion, or the master's, whichever's more, natural armor adjustment that of a familiar, or the animal companion with Druid Bonuses, whichever's more, Int that of a familiar, Druid-speed replacement, and so on), similiar to the Companion Familiar feature of the Arcane Hierophant?

[NullAshton]

Improved natural attack would improve all natural claw attacks, all natural bite attacks... just choose one.

Merging familiar and animal companion would be reasonable enough.

[Jack Simth]

Let's see....

Wizard-5 Druid-2 (5-3 for Ape companion) would make...

APE
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 4d8+11 (34 hp - rolled better than 1/2 master HD)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) (30 base, +10 Longstrider), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural (+3 Base, +3 Familiar), +4 Shared Mage Armor (+2 Leather Barding)), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Claws +7 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+5) and bite +2 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Link, Share Spells, Alertness, improved evasion, empathic link, Deliver touch spells, Speak with master
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 (uses master's base Will save of +4)
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +14, Listen +6, Spot +11, Knoweledge(Basically all)+0, Survival +7, Ride +12, Handle Animal +6, Spellcraft +7, Concentration +10
Feats: Alertness, Toughness
Treasure: Large Leather Barding, Exotic Military Saddle, Saddlebags, 2 Spell Components Pouches, 2 Holly and Mistletoe, 2 Blank Spellbooks, 1 Main spellbook, Small Traveler's Outfit, Small Cold Weather Outfit, Empty Bucket, 50 foot hemp rope, 5 foot hemp rope, 15 foot hemp rope, 30 foot hemp rope
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or company (3-5)
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -
These powerful omnivores resemble gorillas but are far more aggressive; they kill and eat anything they can catch. An adult male ape is 5-1/2 to 6 feet tall and weighs 300 to 400 pounds.
Combat
Skills: Apes have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.
Encumberance: 59.635 (rider), 116 (stuff), 175.635 lbs total
Light Load: 306 lbs, Medium Load: 612 lbs, Heavy Load 920 lbs
Languages: Speak With Master
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 372 lbs

Tack on a simple Disguise Self for going into town and he looks like a quiet half-orc or something....

Muwhahaahaha....

[NullAshton]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40888

The result of me being bored, and doing a thorough comparison of two-weapon fighting and two-handed weapons.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...See, things like that are why I burnt out on D&D. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Violist]

Pff, you're not the only one who tries not to engage in that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Ultimately, the best choice, of course, is what fits the character better...

[NullAshton]

Yup. There's some REALLY cool ideas in there, such as someone drawing a single katana and leap attacking/shock trooper someone, then next round take out a second katana and start kicking butt...

[Jack Simth]

La la la... server online. I do have the right week, Right?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Just thought I'd post a relevent link - Weregeek (http://weregeek.comicgenesis.com/)

[Jack Simth]

Ah well, server closed.

[Violist]

Er... I think it's the right week...

[Jack Simth]

Was. Got bored and gave up after a little over an hour.

[Violist]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Poked Null on IRC earlier this morning, but I think he went away for an extended period of time right about then.

[Jack Simth]

Server online this 5/5/2007

[Jack Simth]

Server closed. Four insectoid ogres defeated, three permitted to live. Three coppers found, as well as some more Huge Greatclubs - settled on 20 gp, 32 lbs each. We're basically at light weight limit on them. Pending big battle with big baddie.

Any XP?

Edit: Right; plus four gems of unknown value.

[NullAshton]

I believe you went through two CR 5 encounters, so XP accordingly. 1,600 XP each, I think?

You also got four gems of undetermined value.

[Jack Simth]

Mixed news:

Good: My sister is getting married.

Bad: On the 19th. I'll be at the wedding, not my computer. Server is schedualed on my computer, and can run without me. I'd advise creating a room (permitted on my server) so you can get the room's root password for assigning players/DM.

[NullAshton]

The problem with that is that we have only one person... and one person can't do a whole lot of stuff.

[Violist]

Ooh, wedding. Have fun!

Maybe we can push the session back a week?

[NullAshton]

Hey Jack, out of curiosity, did you use elite array for statting out the various wizards/sorcerer NPCs of yours?

[Jack Simth]

When I fully statted out the NPC's by hand, yes, I used the elite array.

Most of the time, I either used a random character generator for the base and rolled until I got something that wasn't useless, or used the party's Wizard stats.

[Violist]

hmm, just realised, as it so happens, I'm playing in a concert on the 19th anyways.

[Violist]

So, session tomorrow or week after tomorrow?

[Jack Simth]

Well, tomorrow I am helping my recently-married sister to move to Canada.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Always a good choice.

* Leaves the whole question of 'What is a good choice' ambiguous.

[NullAshton]

Ooo, I just had a good idea for sorcerers. Allowing them to use quickened spells as a swift action if they cast another spell in the same round, applying the time increase to the non-quickened spell.

Sorcerer casts non-metamagiked spell as a full-round action instead of a standard action. Sorcerer can then use a quickened spell with the appropriate level increase as a swift action.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... anyone else have Monday off?

[NullAshton]

I have monday mostly off, yes. Why?

[Jack Simth]

Well, we've been missing a fair number of sessions of late (mostly because of me) and it just struck me as a possible opportunity to play.

[NullAshton]

I don't get summer breaks, but the advantage of being homeschooled is that I can take a vacation whenever I want to.

Violist still needs to come, though.

On a completely different note, I found out why dragons have such a high ECL. Point buy plus dragons equal really REALLY high stats.

[Jack Simth]

Well, ECL is an imperfect measure of how useful a creature is over the long haul when in the hands of a skilled player; Immunity to Sleep, Paralysis, 60-foot blindsense, 120 foot darkvision, flight (and other movement forms), natural weapons, monk-perfect saves, spell-like abilities, and a breath weapon that'll function once or twice per combat is rather valuable - even disregarding the stats.

[Violist]

Oops, didn't check the forum. Wouldn't have worked anyways - I'm doing a duet performance at the end-of-year concert on Wednesday so I spent most of today rehearsing and getting coaching. I'll try to check the forums more frequently.

[DeadZone]

You know, I wish I had worked on Monday, woulda gotten extra money for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

Everyone on for tomorrow?

[NullAshton]

I should be, if nothing extraordinary happens.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Or Supernatural or Spell-like?

Ok, that was a total D&D geek joke.

[NullAshton]

I have an anti-magic field for those two.

[Jack Simth]

It's 6/2/2007; Server online

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

One baby Ogre Mage defeated (barely - Yay rogue-enabling Grappling! Yay rogue-restoring Healing! Yay Me-saving Invisibility! Yay Haste!), one young man from the sky rescued, 1,000 platinum pieces discovered.

XP?

[Jack Simth]

Hmm.... in town, recent infusion of cash ... I suppose now would be a good time to stop and craft some scrolls of Cure Light Wounds.

Crafting 20 scrolls of Cure Light Wounds at caster level 1 would run 250 gp and 20 xp, as well as 20 days - and probably a good idea, provided the plot decides to wait that long.

Hmm... do I want Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Wand at 6th? Decisions, decisions....

[NullAshton]

Wands of cure light wounds are apparently, statistically, the best at healing.

Of course, they're not the fastest, just the most efficient on a healing to gold ratio.

[Jack Simth]

Core, they are the most gold-effecient for charged items. A caster level 1 Cure Light Wounds costs 15 gp/charge from a wand (750 gp per wand, 50 charges per wand). Each charge heals 1d8+1 HP (average 5.5), for 2.7272... gp/hp (on average).

I don't have Craft Wand, however. It costs 12.5 gp and 1 xp to scribe a caster level 1 scroll of Cure Light Wounds - marginally less than the cost of buying a charge from a Wand (if you ignore the XP cost).

If you branch out to Complete Divine, though, the ubiquitous Wand of Cure Light Wounds loses it's place. See, it costs the same amount to make/buy a Wand of Lesser Vigor as it does to make/buy a Wand of Cure Light Wounds. Lesser Vigor at caster level 1 grants fast healing 1 for 11 rounds. At 15 gp/charge, that's 1.3636... gp/hp (flat rate, although some will get wasted towards the end of the duration).

If you want to go really long-haul, the (very small handful) of x/day items that do healing are even better - although not for the why you want a Wand of Cure Light (lots of healing over the next five minutes). A Bead of Healing, for instance, is valued at 9,000 gp, and can cast Cure Serious Wounds once per day. At caster level 5, that's 3d8+5 (average 18.5) healing per use. After 500 uses (500 days), you've gotten the expected average cost per HP below 1 gp/hp. Likewise, a minimally intelligent Cloak of Resistance +1 with a single lesser power of Cure Moderate Wounds (2d8+3) 3/day costs 8,500 gp, market, and heals an average of 36 hp/day; after about 240 days, you've gotten the expected average cost per HP below 1 gp/hp.

If you sleep for a day, you gain twice your HD in HP, at the cost of a day's rations (5 sp). At our level (5th) that's 0.05 gp/hp. Less, if we skip rations and use Survival (or Goodberry) like I've got listed on my character sheet.

Edit:
Null - you posted, but not noted; delay approved? I'll assume so for now and mark it on my character sheet.

Oh, and any XP from the session?

[NullAshton]

The plot can wait, yes. It's not time-sensitive... yet.

Falling block trap is encounter level of 5, and ogre mage was listed as being CR 5.

[Jack Simth]

So book-value 1500 xp each. Nifty.

320 xp to go (for me) until 6th.

Mwhahahaha....

Hmm.... Craft Wand or Craft Wondrous Item? Decisions, decisions.... ah well, I've got a few weeks before it matters.

Ah, now that I have scrolls of Cure Light wounds on hand, re-doing Typical spells prepared; swapping out 2* Cure Light Wounds for a Speak With Animals and a Faerie Fire.

Edit:
Violist, if you had Use Magic Device, I'd Craft you a scroll of Invisibility. If you had Brew Potion, I'd collaberate on a Potion of Invisibility. Sure, you can get a couple of rounds from your Ki Points... but that won't help your Ape (once he's re-Summoned and re-trained; 1 day plus Six Weeks for Combat Riding; 43 days). If you stop and do so now, I'll go ahead and spend the time Crafting another 23 scrolls of Cure Light; no rush yet, and stored healing is always handy.

Edit 2:
Well, maybe 20 more scrolls of Cure Light Wounds and a few scrolls of other utility spells ... if you decide to stop and retrieve the spirit of your companion now, that is, Violist.

Edit 3:
Hmm... you know, in light of recent events, I think that I will have my character's Ape pick up Improved Grapple. Just because so far Grappling's been the most effective tactic. And hey - that'll make for a fairly sweet grapple check at 6th - the "base" +12 Grapple from the Ape, +1 BAB from the extra HD, +1 Strength from the Druid strength boost (21 +1 -> 22, +5 Mod to a +6 Mod), and the +4 from the Improved Grapple Feat itself brings the ape to a +18 Grapple Modifier. Which'll do fairly well for 6th, 7th, and 8th level, I think.

[Violist]

I wouldn't mind resting for 1.5 months to pick up a new animal companion. UMD is a class skill and I've got skill points to spare, so I could put some ranks into that easily at 6th level.

Whoa, lesser vigor is on the Druid list. Guess I'll buy some wands of lesser vigor soon then, although that CLW has been useful in combat situations to restore people quickly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Can we use the Magic Item Compendium? There's some sweet items there, like the Healing belt... +2 on Heal checks, 3 charges/day. 1 charge: 2d8 heal, 2 charges 3d8, 3 charges 4d8 points of healing as a standard action, could be quite useful given our tendency to take first strikes.

Also, Improved Grapple looks like an excellently useful choice given how helpful that is for piling on damage.

[NullAshton]

No magic item compendium, mainly to me not having it.

[Jack Simth]

Okay.

Another 20 xp and 250 gp (and 20 days) on another 20 scrolls of Cure Light Wounds.

Also crafting three scrolls of Invisibility (6 xp, 75 gp each; 18 xp, 225 gp for three).

Which brings me to the 43 days for Violist's calling and training.

Also taking the time and 50 gp to cast Continual Flame on the blade of my dagger (so I can sheath it when I don't want light, draw when I do).

All noted on OpenRPG node of my character sheet, unless there's any objections from the DM (e.g., interrupted sometime in that 43 days).

Edit: And with a permanent light source, dropping all the Light spells (4 of them) in favor of 2*Cure Minor Wounds, Detect Poison, and Mending.

Edit Again:
Violist:
Bear in mind, to use a simple Scroll of Invisibility, you'll need to be able to make a DC 23 skill check (20 + Caster level of the scroll). I'd advise Read Magic (it's on the Druid list, too) beforehand so you get to skip the DC 28 UMD check. Also, what's your Int? You may need to make a secondary check, DC 17, to emulate an Int of 12. When you think you have a reasonable chance of pulling it off, though, just ask for the scroll.

Also, Violist: Do you already have your build planned out for future levels? If not, I'd like to request that at 6th you take either Craft Wand or Craft Wondrous Item, and let me know, so I can take the other. Between the two of us, that permits collaberation on about 80-90% of the items we'll actually use.

[NullAshton]

You know that a third of magic weapons automatically give off light in a 20 foot radius? For no extra cost?

[Jack Simth]

Yeah, but those are pricy (a simple +1 dagger costs 2,302 gp, market); I don't intend to actually buy a magic weapon - at least not for a long, long time. And there's also the nifty about countering Darkness - the 2nd level spell, Continual Flame, is not suppressed by the 2nd level spell, Darkness. It's also not unaffected. The light crossbow and dagger are primarily for when I can't really think of anything better to do. As such, they don't get a meaningful investment of recources.

[Violist]

I wouldn't mind picking up Craft Wondrous Item next level... then I could shunt more money into upgrading crossbows. Bah! Have to wait 300 XP for that.

At 9th level I'd like to grab Improved Two-Weapon Fighting for the dual-crossbow invisibility strike, but 6th level is open as far as I can tell.

[Jack Simth]

My feat choices are cast, then.

Umm... you realize that you can't use Improved Two-Weapon fighting effectively with crossbows due to the requirement that you have both hands available to reload them, right? Worse, it's a move action to reload without the Rapid Reload feat, and you can't normally full attack to get the benefits of Two-Weapon fighting without having the full round available to Full Attack, right?

[Violist]

I was thinking of getting another pair of masterwork hand crossbows so that I'd be able to squeeze two rounds out of full attack, but I hadn't thought about the crossbows. Thanks for pointing that out, I'd completely spaced that.

[Jack Simth]

You might actually find your two-weapon fighting goes better with some Druid effect spells - you only need one hand to manipulate components, and the spell takes effect after the casting, so if you cast, say, Flame Blade (Druid-2, 1 min/level duration, touch attack deals 1d8 (+1/two levels, max +10) damage (no strength bonus, though) and Produce Flame (touch attack at range or melee deals 1d6 (+1/level, max +5) damage, 1 min/level, each attack reduces duration by 1 minute) in opposite hands, you can have both active, and two-weapon fight with them. You're a bit more limited on a per-day basis, but as they're only 1st and 2nd level spells, you can load up on them (or talk to my character, and colaberate on some scrolls - or wands, in another level) so you can use them at whim. The duration on both is high enough that you can cast it when you think combat might happen soon (e.g., just before opening a door), and be covered.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
I wouldn't mind picking up Craft Wondrous Item next level... then I could shunt more money into upgrading crossbows. Bah! Have to wait 300 XP for that.

At 9th level I'd like to grab Improved Two-Weapon Fighting for the dual-crossbow invisibility strike, but 6th level is open as far as I can tell.


Actually, can you take Craft Wand instead of Craft Wondrous? My character will be perfectly happy to collaberate on anything you'll want to make (as it is the point of coordinating item crafting feat selection), and I'm looking at maybe taking Craft Construct eventually - which requires both Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor. If you'll take Craft Wand (to cover the expendable recources - Cure Light Wounds, Invisibility, and the like) I can take Craft Wondrous this time, Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 9th, then Craft Construct at 10th (as a Wizard Bonus feat).

[Violist]

Sure, makes no difference to me.

[NullAshton]

So are you making your sixth level sheets already?

[Jack Simth]

Planning it, haven't written mine up. I will of course need to roll HP, select skills, choose new Wizard spells and regularly prepared spells per day - but it doesn't hurt much if I don't coordinate those. Crafting Feats? It's better not to duplicate them.

I may never pick up Natural Spell - Craft Wondrous at 6th, Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 9th, then Craft Construct at 10th, in time to make a nice ....

Hmm. There's not a single golem you can make that doesn't require a 7th level spell. A Clay Golem requires Ressurection. A Flesh Golem requires Limited Wish. An Iron Golem requires Limited Wish. A Stone Golem requires Symbol of Stunning. A Shield Guardian requires Limited Wish (and Discern Location, 8th). Okay, there's the Homunculus, but it's kinda pointless and rather dangerous to use. Well, there goes that plan. Still taking Craft Wondrous at 6th, though.

Edit: Maybe Quicken Spell at 9th (when it becomes useful - 5th level spell slots), Craft Magic Arms and Armor at 10th, and Craft Construct at 12th (for making actual golems at 13th, when 7th level spells become available). Natural Spell will just have to wait. I suppose I have very little reason to pick up Polymorph (Alter Self, on the other hand...).

[Jack Simth]

So, everyone up for the session in about 12 hours, 42 minutes?

[Violist]

Should be.

[Jack Simth]

Server online this 6/16/2007.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

A bunch of unusually bright skeletons and zombies defeated (I lost count - there were a large number of them). Made peace with the rest at the point of a claw on their leader. Four encounters, essentially. No rest yet. 600 gp found in a house. I'm fairly sure we would have won a stright-up fight at the end; but I wanted the information; got most of it, too. I was also basically out of spells - had my Extended Rope Trick, one more Shield spell, Speak With Animals, Faeire Fire, and a bunch of cantrips. That, and having the leader order everyone stand down is usually going to work out better than hoping you got them all. Especially if they have a natural desire to feed on intelligent living things. This might eventually come back to bite us, but it'll do well for the moment.

Hmm... should be a reasonable amount of XP, even though they were probably in the range of 1/2 to 2 on the CR (except for the priestess - I don't have any benchmark to judge her CR, as she didn't get to act, but it was probably higher). Thankfully, rolled well where it mattered. How much XP, anyway?

Very good session, by the way.

As to the reason for the three things I'm checking; two incidents don't make a pattern - pretty much ever. At least, not as far as locating the next is concerned. Three points will be easier to work with, but it's like a mass murderer - on the one hand, you want it to stop, so you don't want it to happen again; on the other, you want to find the next victim so you can have more in the way of clues to track down the perpetrator.

I'm checking three things:
1) Straight-line location. Large natural phenomina tend to follow this type of pattern over the short run (a hundred miles or so) - storms, for example. If there's a likely spot that follows the straight-line (or close to it), that's my next choice of destination (although I will consult with Amaki first)
2) Circular distribution. People usually have a base of operations of some kind, and do stuff in a radius from there. Going with the mass-murderer example, above, murders will usually not think about it too much, and go a random distance in a random direction from their home to commit their murder. The more they do so, though, the more you can find the center of it, and get a good idea where it's coming from. The same thing happens with certain types of natural events - huge gobs of lava belched from the mouth of a volcano land in essentially random points in a radius; but when there's a lot of them, you can get a pretty good idea where the volcano is located from where the huge gobs of lava landed. Failing a settlement that is a close fit to a straight line, the next thing to check is inside a circular distribution, using either known incident as a center point. I'm hoping it won't come to this type of progressively narrowing down the location, especially as it is possible to fake out by someone who knows about it, but I'm going to continue to track it.
3) Nearest town distribution: this is for the traveling villian who isn't yet aware someone's on his tail, who is "simply" looking for the next suitable set of experimental subjects. Failing any settlements that fall into 1 or 2, this is the next best bet.

Of course, if I find a settlement on the map that fits two or more of those, that's my next stop (well, after a rest - exhausted, you know).

[NullAshton]

For simplicities sake, I think I'm going to put all of the encounters at an average CR of 5. I kind of homebrewed those creatures up on the fly to fit my idea of the adventure(basically intelligent, non-shambling zombies), and the CR of 1 didn't really seem to work quite right.

Tip: Always give NPC spellcasters improved initiative, or some way of escaping a grapple. It would have been a lot harder had it had the chance to use a DC 16 ghoul touch....

[Violist]

Yeah, probably would have won the fight... the zombies looked like more common ones, and the leader was busy being Grappled. Information is more valuable though.

I like your plan for finding the next spot.

Can we level tonight or should we wait for a significant amount of down time?

[Jack Simth]

Null: Grease is a 1st level Sor/Wiz spell; you might want to look it up. Then have it prepared Stilled. And use Eschew Materials.

[NullAshton]

Jack Simth said:
Null: Grease is a 1st level Sor/Wiz spell; you might want to look it up. Then have it prepared Stilled. And use Eschew Materials.



There was the SLIGHT problem with only being able to use standard action spells. Otherwise Alever would have been blasted with a stilled eschew materials Cause Fear. That would have solved her grapple problems quite well.

[Jack Simth]

Ah, so she was a Sorcerer (in part, at least).

Yeah, Wizards, when the prepare for it (Agean hasn't - and can't, from the Wizard perspective, not without Still Spell, which will be a while; hmm... could get a Wand of Grease, those aren't a problem, save for drawing them in the first place) do better in grapples than do Sorcerers, for exactly that reason.

Grappling is THE anti-caster tactic, at least before Dimension Door (Sor/Wiz 4; requires a 7th level character, minimum). I'm kinda surprised you haven't used it on me, yet; Small size, stregth as a dump stat; I'm staring down a negative grapple modifier. Escape Artist, untrained, of +3. Whop de do.

Which reminds me - I need to look up a Medium Animal with a good Grapple check.... what's got the best Strength score.... Black Bear at 19? Crocadile ties; hmm... which is better... oh, a Deinonychus looks interesting, same strength, too... right number of HP, reasonable dex, good speed, and more natural armor! We have a winner (until 8th level, for Large wild shape). After Wildshape, that's a grapple modifier of +8. Not too bad.

I didn't leave you twitching too badly, did I? I could tone it down if you'd prefer. Then again, I am keeping things as core as possible, except for the Gestalt aspect....

Edit:
Let's see... 4 CR 5's for 2 ECL 5 characters is ... 3,000 xp each. Nifty. That's next level. Level now or later?

[NullAshton]

Nah. Just need counters to grapple.

[Jack Simth]

If it's any consolation, Alever would have been toast if the other bright zombies had figured out what was up.

Push Ageun away (surely they could have figured out there was some significance to ALWAYS being within five feet) then start pounding on Alever - in a grapple, so loses Dex; he would have been working with an AC of roughtly 12-14, haven't statted it out just yet. And he has lower HP than Ageun. And, when grappling, Alever doesn't have that much of a damage output - one attack at a d6+a bit.

[NullAshton]

I'm not too up to date on tactics like that yet.

[Jack Simth]

It's called debuffing. Granted, without ranks in Knoweledge(Nature) or Knoweledge(Religion) it's unlikely that they'd have known exactly what the effect would be; likewise, it's not unreasonable to assume that the little gnome just likes to stay close to the big ape for protection; that specific counter is highly specific to the situation at hand, and potentially needed some metagame knowelege. The normal method of debuffing is with specific debuff spells (Ray of Enfeeblement and Enervation to name two) that reduce a character with no save or with Dispel Magic. There's also a lot of overlap with Save or Suck spells (Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud) which can often mean the difference between victory and failure.

Hmm... need to get a Wand of Grease...

Also - Level now (we are in what is - currently - a relatively safe place) or later (in a living town).

[NullAshton]

You can level right now if you want. Generally if you have the XP, you can level up at any time you choose.

[cdi]

Hello all. Thanks for letting me lurk the game the other day.

I'm interested in joining the game. After yesterday, it appears I'd be welcome too. I've created a PC (with Violist's input) which I hope meets with everyone's approval. I'm still tweaking things, so the gold-in-purse is most likely off.

Renmai's character sheet can be found here:
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=17137

All critiques are welcome.

-cdi

[Edit: done tweaking now]

[Jack Simth]

Cdi:
One thing to be aware of in D&D is class power curves by level.

We're about in the middle ground of most of them at the moment, so it doesn't matter too much, but in general....

A Warrior (of Core: Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger) has higher than average "power" at lower levels, and lower than average "power" at higher levels (ignoring Tome of Battle, for the moment - it can change this).
A Sneak (of Core: Rogue primarily, but also Bard and to a slightly lesser extent, the Ranger) has reasonably average "power" at all levels.
A Full Caster (of Core: Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric, Druid) has below average "power" at lower levels, and higher than average "power" at higher levels.

In Gestalt, you get to take the best of the power curves for your two classes (and add them to a degree - synergy, basically). You're working with a Warrior/Warrior, with a small portion of sneak thrown in. Just speaking from a power perspective, you'll want a full caster on one side eventually.

However, we're just getting into the middle zone of power levels, where most classes are basically equal in "power", so that aspect doesn't matter too much for about the next three to five levels.

It looks like a good character, which will very likely fit in (Nature theme) and fill a niche in the party (we don't currently have much, if anything, in the way of ranged combatants). You've got a higher unbuffed AC than just about anyone else in the party at the moment, the best HP, and you're liable to do a fair amount of damage each round, every round. You're also unlikely to find something who's DR you can't beat (due to the various special material arrows), and you've got backup melee weapons for when someone closes. You'll have something useful to do in basically any situation. Good job.

[cdi]

Jack,

Thanks for the comments, very very helpful.

I was hoping to craft a character that would fit the established theme and didn't rely heavily on spells. It appeared (while lurking) that the party had the spellcasting side covered and needed more "wombat-smash".

-cdi

[Jack Simth]

cdi said:
Jack,

Thanks for the comments, very very helpful.

I was hoping to craft a character that would fit the established theme and didn't rely heavily on spells. It appeared (while lurking) that the party had the spellcasting side covered and needed more "wombat-smash".

-cdi

To a goodly extent, yes.

The two big Apes get a power boost at 6th, bringing them to 6 HD and improving their AC (+2 Natural armor, +1 Str/Dex, and they have, by default, odd Strength and Dexterity scores - this is a threshold level for them), as well as directly improving their attack (+1 BAB, and a feat). +3 AC (putting mine at a "normal" ac of 21, the other at a "normal" ac of 19 - mine gets a Shared Extended Mage Armor, lasts 10 hours (all day, usually), in addition to the leather barding (which is overlapped by the Mage Armor), while the other just gets the leather barding. They will remain effective melee combatants for this level and probably the next. This is, however, the peak of their relative usefulness. Past this point, the opposition grows in power faster than the animal companions do. They'll likely have a brief stay of execution at 9th (when they get 2 more HD, and associated druid bonuses), but mechancially I do not see them as much more than baggage handlers, mounts, and occasional grapplers (anti-spellcasters) after about 10th-11th level. For now, though, they are effective at melee. I do worry about their Will saves, though.

Personally, if I wanted to make a ranged combatant for this party, I would probably go either Ranger/Cleric (any diety will work, just about, but one of the nature dieties would be ideal), Fighter/Druid, or Fighter/Cleric (nature diety).

Ranger/Cleric: gets most the archery line for free, as well as the nifty clerical buff spells. Also has all good saves and 6 skill points per level. With a nature diety, you'll fit right in - and be able to use the good light armors (no restriction about metals). Spend money to boost Wisdom, and save money by way of Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestments.

Fighter/Druid: has feats coming out the wazoo (just because the Fighter has feats coming out the wazoo). As you'll want the Dex for the archery to-hit anyway, there's no problem qualifying for them all. Downside: Only 4 skill points per level, can't use the good armors, only two good saves.

Fighter/Cleric: Fighter feats, cleric buffs, can use the best armors; but only 2 skill points per level (unless you can convince Null to let you use the Cloistered Cleric variant - in which case, it's wonderful all around, except for the poor reflex save - everything the Cloistered Cleric class removes from the Cleric, the Fighter puts back).

For a melee combatant, I would go with Fighter/Cleric (again, with Cloistered Cleric if possible), Fighter/Druid, or Monk/Druid - mostly for the same basic reasons. The Monk/Druid is in there for the Wisdom synergy, and the reduced MAD that afflicts the monk - Wildshape lets you ignore Strength and Dex.

But that's just me; you've got a solid build.

[Jack Simth]

Hmm... Null, you've been letting me get away without it, but I probably ought to use the extra bonus trick on a Grapple command, now that I've got one anyway.

[NullAshton]

...yeah, that would be a good idea.

I've been letting you get away without it because I didn't bother reading the handle animal skill description too much.

[Jack Simth]

Well, so far, it's something I've done twice. For a Druid, Pushing an animal companion (getting it to do a trick it isn't trained for) is a move action, but it's still DC 25 - which, due to the +4 from Link, 8 ranks (at the time; 9, now), and -1 from a Charisma of 8, I make on a roll of 14 - 35% chance. Assuming a successful roll, it means I got an extra move action in; even with the lack, though, it wouldn't have made too much difference - next round on getting Amaki recovered to do the actual deed on the Ogre Mage, but the Ogre Mage was basically stymied anyway. Cost the readied action (which never went off, and was primarily for show anyway) vs. the Zombie Queen (Did we ever catch her name? Oh well). Assuming both rolls were made for Pushing an animal.

But then, Grapple is under the special attacks section, and they are trained to Attack....

Hmm... oh well, I pointed it out before I was called on it; no point overthinking it too much.

[Violist]

Say, nice suggestion about the Deinonychus. Next time we fight something that actually cares about sneak attack damage I think I'll try it out.

Can the apes actually pick up Improved Grapple, without Improved Unarmed Strike?

Picked up Craft Wand.

[Jack Simth]

Violist:
Yes and no (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Board=UBB23&Number=509948&Main=509948 #Post509948).
Technically, RAW, the ape's need Improved Unarmed Strike before they can take Improved Grapple.

However, the basic feats assume one of the core races; Improved Unarmed Strike lets you deal lethal damage without provoking when unarmed. With their natural claw attacks, the Apes can deal lethal damage without provoking when unarmed. Null has quite reasonably ruled that the particular technically required feat won't be enforced.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

More fodder for alignment debates? (http://nowhereu.comicgenesis.com/d/20070604.html)

Or just a solid Chaotic Neutral?

[NullAshton]

Slight problem for next D&D session... this Saturday I'll be on the road all day, and won't be able to show up for D&D.

[Jack Simth]

Well, enjoy the drive.

Meanwhile, I've put the finishing touches on my 6th level character sheet; see attached. All it's missing is the HP rolls, although they are noted as being needed.

[Violist]

Everyone on for tomorrow?

[cdi]

I'll be there.

-cdi

[Jack Simth]

I plan on it.

Oh, and Null - any settlements that fit any of my three checks?

[Violist]

I just got invited to a friend's house who I haven't seen in about a year, so I may be a little late tomorrow. Shouldn't be a problem, but thought I'd inform.

[NullAshton]

Uh, I don't think I can make it. I've been busy on vacation, and haven't had time to make another encounter, not to mention I'll be busy packing and getting ready to leave today.

[Jack Simth]

...

So, anyone up for a quick impromptu?

[Violist]

Having monitor difficulties. I'll check in as soon as I can sort it out...

[Violist]

Ah, card got knocked loose. Server not up, no impromptu?

[Jack Simth]

...

That explains why it's so quiet. Must have tried to start up when my net connection was momentarily down. Restarting...

How's it look now?

[Jack Simth]

Ah well.


Offline.

[cdi]

I've got bad news. I don't have time to play.

I just found out that my office is about to be very very busy for an extended period of time.

Sorry,
-cdi

[Jack Simth]

Hmm.

Well, happens. Life takes precedence. At least you get overtime pay, right?

Everyone else up for tomorrow?

[Violist]

I am.

[Jack Simth]

Whoohoo!

[NullAshton]

I am as well.

*diabolical laughter*

[Jack Simth]

In that case, server online.

So... any results on my three checks for surrounding communities?

[NullAshton]

Er, what version of openRPG are you using? I'm not seeing the server...

[Jack Simth]

Server closed (Version 1.7.3).

Lots of sneaking around empty places with only sleeping people to listen, uncounted number of everburning torches snitched, BBEG met and politely conversed with, two guards slain. Taylia is the name to remember (BBEG's deceased wife). Per BBEG letters to deceased wife, she's a saint who likes the coast (or comes from the coast, or wants to retire to the coast... unclear). Unevaluated value of diamonds in possession - hanging onto them, for now, as a polite excuse for the next time we meet BBEG. We never heard his name spoken - will need to check with abandoned minions to get the "Ransar" name.

Oh, and loot from the two guards. I suspect a nice sale from them.

Null - can I get a full loot and XP listing?

Edit:
Notes to remember:
BBEG uses diamonds to power the spell to attempt to bring his wife back from death by old age.
BBEG regretful about the "acceptable losses" in his research.
BBEG looking for a Large City for the next attempt - and specialized equipment, including glass tubes.

[Violist]

Should also see if there's another city continuing the pattern, now that we've got 3 points to follow.

[Jack Simth]

The pattern method is no longer particularly useful; an intelligent adversary who knows he's being tracked will often deliberately avoid patterns (unless he's of the opinion that those tracking are not a threat - which, well.... we aren't - yet).

We do, however, have some good clues as to his next location - large city, diamonds available, glass made to order.

[Jack Simth]

Everyone good to go for tomorrow?

[NullAshton]

Yup. Absolutely nothing to do, and sodas and potato chips are restocked in the morning.

[Violist]

ROAR!

[Violist]

I don't see the server... will try again in 5 minutes.

Edit: Ah, no 'server online' post...

[Jack Simth]

Violist? It's been up, I just didn't have a minute to put the post in.

You can go to 67.168.48.61:6774 if you can't find it on the listing.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

Two bandits defeated - one ran away, the other dropped all gear, and ran away. Some gold from the sale of stuff. I've already marked inventory changes on my character sheet.

Spent a bottle of wine gathering info - worked, sort of.

Notes to remember:
Ransar is the name of our opponent; comes from a costal area, made a business of Teleport; also occasionally helped out the town guard.
The Captain of the Guard is missing from the current, as-yet-unnamed city.
Found what appears, at fist glance, to be Ransar's current hideout - a cave just outside town. He's already got his glass tubes, we haven't checked up on the diamonds as far as I'm aware.
We plan on raiding current hideout tomorrow, with a scroll of Dispel Magic (caster level 6) in Amaki's possession in case he starts casting, and with Ageun with a prepared Dispel Magic. Might be funny if we can successfully dispel the ritual in the middle of it taking effect.

Let's see... I'm told it was two CR 6 encounters last session, so for two 6th level characters, that would be 1800 xp each.

What's the CR/XP for this session?

[Violist]

Oops, closed openRPG before I noted the everburning torch sales. Looking forward to maybe sneaking up on the wizard...

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Yeah, a little early, I know.

Edit: And just in case it is needed: 67.168.48.61:6774

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

No treasure; two armed guards frightened away, one Fireball trap negated (poor Summoned Dire Rat - good thing Summons don't actually perish when "killed"....).

Trap was probably about CR 4 (spell level +1), I don't have any decent yardstick by which to judge the guards.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Summons seem rather undefined in where they come from, where they go and what happens when the die.

Unless I missed that part of the core books.

[Jack Simth]

Narf:
You missed it, sort of:

SRD, Magic Overview, Schools of Magic, Conjouration
Summoning: A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.


Still doesn't say where it comes from, mind, but it does say what happens to them after.

[NullAshton]

I thought of starting a campaign with the PCs being summoned. It would be good for newbies, since it would give them one free true ressurection, and give a reason for all the PCs to actually work together.

[Jack Simth]

Well, it only sort-of gives them a free True Resurrection - once out of HP, they go home, and reform their 24 hours later... but they are out of the "summoned adventure" game unless they're capable of getting back themselves (which requires a Cleric-9, at a minimum - and the rest of the party can't fetch them, as a Summoned critter is unable to use Summoning spells or plane shifting abilities).

Unless they were Summoned from the same plane... hmm....

Ah well; there was some discussion of every week, starting earlier; how early is everyone willing to get up (please specify time zone)?

[Violist]

It seems that everyone's getting together about 9 AM PST... 9 or 10 am *should* work for me barring unusual circumstances. Sorry about last week...

[NullAshton]

I'm in EST.... three hours earlier is probably about the limit for me, I like sleeping late.

[Jack Simth]

I'm in PST; 7 AM (10 AM EST) is fine with me; I start work at 5 am PST m-f; starting at 7 AM PST is sleeping in, for me.

[NullAshton]

So.... 10 EST this weekend, for how long?

[Jack Simth]

Oh, about three or four hours, I'd imagine.

Although we don't actually have confirmation from Violist that 7 am Pacific works for him... especially as, being in Oregon, he's on Pacific time.

[Violist]

7 AM should work for me...

[Jack Simth]

Cool. Server online at 67.168.48.61:6774

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; one guard (looks like it's probably the missing captain of the guard from the city) disenchanted, lightning trap survived by all; Ransar escaped, but nursing a headache, inkeeper commanded to stay still in hand, running out of an exploding cave.

Still no declared XP from last session (two guards, one trap).

Methinks Ransar might just be upset soon.

So, how much XP do I need to write into my character sheet?

[Violist]

Getting enough to level would be really nice... I'd feel so much happier going after Ransar if we had level 4 spells http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ah, but how do you know Ransar hasn't leveled?