OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.(Edited2)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Sorry about that. Should probably keep better track of what's going on.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed. Kibin Greatly Warped, one dead demon (after NPCing Derrel for the Coup De Gra only - none of the present players at the time actually had anything that could truely kill the monster... stupid DR/Good Regeneration 5/Good ex-demon bunny); treasure found and identified, but not Appraised:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
art
amber gold earring
black velvet mask with numerous lapis lazuli gems
ceramic doll
electrum bracer with mock scales and four citrine gems
false hand, solid silver, with ivory nails
false hand, solid silver, with ivory nails
gold dragon comb with red garnet eye
hairpins, gilded, with sard stones
jeweled electrum ring
mithril brooch with deep blue spinel stones
ornamental saddle, embellished with gems and scenes of horsemanship
platinum flask inlaid with gold and silver designs
seashell fingerpick
well-wrought miniature scale castle
coin
3,962 gold coins
Large Spear +1 (2,604 gp)
potion
potion of darkvision (300 gp)
tan-colored
lemony odor/taste
watery, opaque appearance
potion of darkvision (300 gp)
mauve-colored
fishy odor/taste
fuming, opaque appearance
scroll
arcane (175 gp)
Cat's Grace (l2, cl3)
Charm Person (l1, cl1)
arcane (25 gp)
Spider Climb (l1, cl1)
divine (325 gp)
Hold Person (l2, cl3)
Calm Animals (l1, cl1)
Stonetell (l2, cl3)
</pre><hr />
Wagon converted into an Animated Object Wagon (via Polymorph Any Object) loyal and obedient to Kaylin.

750 xp each to Kaylin, Kibin, and Jason for participating in the CR 13 fight. Log Hopefully attached.

[Violist]

Just 750 bloody XP? I almost died! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif The NDE should be worth something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

CR 13. Scared away the higher HP rogue. That's how the math works out.

The REALLY fun part? The panicked rouge was immune to the cone of cold....

We really need to convince Elorin to pick up Hero's Feast at his next opportunity - immunity to fear for the entire party all day long! (and never really need to worry about rations again....)

[Violist]

Sounds good... we've been having a lot of issues with Fear and Panic lately. Hmmph.

[Jack Simth]

For that matter, if you're in a hurry, and he's willing, Limited Wish will make his next opportunity immediately.... at the cost of 300 xp for Kaylin and 25 or more for Elorin.

[NullAshton]

We need to have more times to roleplay. Like friday!

EDIT: Wasn't I immune to the slow effect, too? Immune to cold, and the slow effect is 'numbing cold'...

[Violist]

I'm all for more times, 'cept I do have classes/orchestra/symphony most days, and Sunday is taken up by other stuff (studying etc)... Tuesday would probably be best for me, though I do have duet rehearsals. Otherwise, it'll have to be from about 1530 PST (1830 EST). I think...

[NullAshton]

Tuesdays are too busy. 6:30 EST could work...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
We need to have more times to roleplay. Like friday!

EDIT: Wasn't I immune to the slow effect, too? Immune to cold, and the slow effect is 'numbing cold'...

Pity you weren't immune to the Fear Aura; you could have done quite splendidly against the critter.

As for times....

Well, I need to get up quite early for work in the mornings - I've got my alarm set for 5 am - so weekdays are pretty much out for me.

[NullAshton]

There's always fridays? By the way... when I get the dragon hitdie, that means the fortitude saves and stuff?

[Jack Simth]

Dragon Hit Dice have d12 hit points, monk-perfect saves, full BAB, and 6+Int mod skill points per Hit Die. Yep. If you make it to 16th still in dragon form, your character may very well suddenly rock.

[NullAshton]

Now if only I get to wish away those other forms...

[Jack Simth]

Oh... by the time you hit 16th, I'm fairly sure most everyone will be at 17th....

[NullAshton]

Bah. Not if I zap these stupid level adjustment from being a wolfie.

[Jack Simth]

They aren't level adjustments; they are hit dice, which count as class levels for many purposes; Simply zapping them I'd probably permit with a wish... which would leave you at -2 BAB (from current), minus a bunch of hit points (those were two d10 hit dice; average 11 hp + twice your con bonus; big chunk to lose, as well as a +2 to both Fort and Reflex saves). But yes, a wish requested by you could zap them away; if you had enough xp to qualify as a 15th level character after that, you could even have them transmuted into something else (Dragon HD, say....); if only enough for 14th, then you'd get only a single level out of them; if you still had level 13 XP... well... ouch.

Hmm... what is your XP total at the moment, anyway?

[NullAshton]

I dunno. Kinda lost track...
EDIT: It would probally be the same as Derrel, minus 2000.

[Jack Simth]

No, not the same as Derrel; you've been receiving less XP as you've spent some time between 13th and now at a higher ECL than the rest of the party, and thus getting less XP... Let's see... 82422 on 09/03/2005; 4466 gained for 09/10/2005; 600 for 09/17/2005; 225+1800+2700+2000 for 09/24/2005; 2950 for 10/01/2005; 3600 xp on 10/08/2005; and 750 from yesterday's, -2000 for the great warping; 82422+4466+600+225+1800+2700+2000+2950+3600+750-2000=99,513 xp; 120,000 xp for 16th, 105,000 xp for 15th, 91,000 xp for 14th. So if you were to Wish them away now, you would end up as a 14th level character; 13 Rogue class levels, 1 Dragon HD.

[NullAshton]

Interesting. By dragon hitdie, do you mean gaining all of the bonuses of being a wyrmling dragon?

[Jack Simth]

Not quite (but almost; the only benefit from being a full Wyrmling Silver Dragon at the moment is the skill set, and the non-dispellable aspect); Dragon Hit Dice (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#dragonType) do not necessarily match any particular type; however, if you take a dragon HD, I'll have it anchor the Great Warping (no going back, short of Wish...) which will essentially do the same thing. A Wish to transmute the Magical Beast (Wolf) hit dice would lose you the benefits of those HD (Saves, BAB, Hit Points, the 8 ranks in Survival, and the 15th level feat, as well as the assorted benefits of being a magical beast (which are pretty much all totally covered with the Dragon Hit Die anyway)) and all the penalties of them (counting against your XP and ECL) from that point onward; you would then get a Dragon Hit Die (Silver), which would mean a d12 roll for hit points, 6+Int Modifier skill points to spend (class skills: those of the Silver dragon: Bluff, Disguise, Jump, Listen, Search, Spot, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device); you wouldn't advance to Very Young (that would take you 5-6 years and 10 HD (levels) worth of advancement). You would also then count as ECL 14, and start gaining XP faster.

[Violist]

And we're all sure that being a permadragon isn't too powergamy or munchinkiny? If the DM has some way of making sure it doesn't overpower one character, I'm fine with it.

Also... just read the logs... I taste sweet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[NullAshton]

Bah. Why would it be munchinkiny? It's fun!

[Violist]

Well... shapeshifting... flying... immunity to various effects... nifty special attacks.. plus the coolness... some might say it's approaching the land of the Heavenly Cow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

[Jack Simth]

There's actually a fair number of mitigating factors:
1) He lost a LOT in the stat department - went from something like a base dex of 18 to a base dex of 10 (which is a -4 to his AC and a great many of his skills); granted, his base Str and Con went up (11/12 to 13/13), but that's not going to make nearly so much of a difference.
2) The shapeshifting isn't so bad - primarily because it's limited to forms of Medium or smaller, and humanoid/animal only - about the worst he can do, combat-wise, is a black bear; the ability is roughly equivalent to that of a 5th level druid's Wild Shape (but more often, and permits humanoid forms), maybe one of the hybrid were forms; for the most part, he's better off fighting as a Wyrmling Silver dragon.
3) It can still be undone, after; the Dragon HD anchors the spell - get rid of the dragon HD (by, say, killing and ressurecting him; most recent level goes away - goodbye dragon HD) and the spell ceases to be anchored, and is again subject to dispelling. Also, see next to find out just how simple it might be.
4) He's immune to various effects... but he also takes extra damage from fire (+50%), which is one of the most common elemental attack forms; even if he Evades that Fireball successfully, he's still down to the point of a normal person's successful reflex save. As he doesn't have Improved Evasion, if he fails his reflex save, he's pretty much toast. An Empowered Fireball from a 10th level Sorceror deals 10d6*1.5 (average 52.5 damage); against Kibin, that's increased by a further +50%; he'd take 70 damage (on average) (D&amp;D math - 10d6*1.5*1.5=10d6*2). An Empowered Scorching Ray with a caster level of at least 11 (no reflex save....) would deal 3*4d6*1.5*1.5; average 84 damage to him. Toasty, no? If that's not enough, an Empowered Delayed Blast Fireball from a Wiz-17 would deal 119 damage (on average) to him on a failed save, and 29.75 (again, average) on a successful save.
5) He can fly - but it's only Average maneuverability - Kaylin could do better with a simple Phantom Steed (3rd level spell) which, at caster level 15th, that's 15 hours of Fly 240(average). Granted, the Phantom Steed can be taken down with a few arrows, a Dispel Magic, or a Fireball while Kibin will still be in the air after such - but a few drawbacks are expected for twice the speed, no?
6) He gets darkvision 120 and 4x the normal dim light vision range as a human - but he had Darkvision 60 before, and little of the campaign has been taking place underground where Darkvision is particularly useful anyway.
7) It would drop him a level behind - at least for a while, although he's slated for that anyway.

[Violist]

Wow, I didn't realise all that... especially the +50% fire thing.

[Jack Simth]

As the DM, it's part of my job to be able to make any given character quite useless during a given encounter; in fact, I can make pretty much any one character inneffective:

Jason: Monster has big grapple modifiers, high will saves, and reasonable SR - Jason quite stuck.
Kaylin: Monster has heavy SR.
Derrel: Monster is in the air or otherwise out of reach.
Elorin: Monster has heavy SR and a Wind Wall that deflects arrows.
Kibin: Monster is immune to sneak attack (can be done many ways) and has DR 10/whatever. Helps to either have good fort saves or be immune to paralysis.

I can also make multiple characters inneffective simply by combining the above properties - An Evil monster with a good grapple check, high SR, capable of casting Wind Wall, and immunity to critical hits - a Clerical Giant Lich, say, with armor of Invulnerablity - could pretty much only get hurt by Derrel. A few Dispel Magic's could ruin it's day, of course, but if multiple copies are prepared....

Well, I'm sure you get the idea. Which reminds me... who hasn't shined for a while?

[Violist]

Derrel has been gone for a while, I'd say he should get some glory moments. I'd love to also fight something that wouldn't come within 1 on a dice roll of killing me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[NullAshton]

Well, I'm also immune to cold and acid, I still got average reflex saves, can do things OTHER than sneak attack...(bluff, anyone?), can still fly(and faster than almost every other creature out there), get a full attack that DOESN'T require you to have progressivly lesser attacks(except -5 for claws), a paralyzation breath that COULD be handy against some monsters, natural armor, immunity to sleep and paralysis effects, cloudwalking(still cool), and soon to be skills. Hehe... of course, if the enemy has a few dragonbane weapons...

EDIT: Whoops, forgot about blindsense.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
A few Dispel Magic's could ruin it's day, of course, but if multiple copies are prepared....


You do remember I can cast Dispel Magic spontaneously with any of my level 3+ spell slots, right? And I've got a total of 27 spells slots of 3rd level or higher... Of course, there is the limit of +10 to my caster level check, and each recast requires another dispel, but each time he has to recast it is a round he can't do much else...

[Violist]

You're not really helping your case that a dragon isn't too powergamy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Well, my dexterity sucks.

[NullAshton]

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS SANE! KEEP THAT TORCH AWAY FROM ME!

[Alneyan]

Actually, I think I might get back into a campaign: the hour (1300 EST) works for me and my DSL is reliable now, though I might be late every once in a while.

I will not raise Stisnera from the dead. Or will I? Anyway, my preference goes to those spellslingers (Sorcerers or Psions/Wilders in particular), and I like those "other" races; I think races beyond the Seven can be accepted here.

So, is there an opening in the campaign? I promise Stisnera won't come back.

[Violist]

Sounds fine to me. Just help protect us from the insane dragonette...

[NullAshton]

Dragonette?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Alneyan said:
Actually, I think I might get back into a campaign: the hour (1300 EST) works for me and my DSL is reliable now, though I might be late every once in a while.

I will not raise Stisnera from the dead. Or will I? Anyway, my preference goes to those spellslingers (Sorcerers or Psions/Wilders in particular), and I like those "other" races; I think races beyond the Seven can be accepted here.

So, is there an opening in the campaign? I promise Stisnera won't come back.


We've changed to playing Jack's campaign.

[NullAshton]

Yeah. He has humor.

[Jack Simth]

Alneyan said:
Actually, I think I might get back into a campaign: the hour (1300 EST) works for me and my DSL is reliable now, though I might be late every once in a while.

I will not raise Stisnera from the dead. Or will I? Anyway, my preference goes to those spellslingers (Sorcerers or Psions/Wilders in particular), and I like those "other" races; I think races beyond the Seven can be accepted here.

So, is there an opening in the campaign? I promise Stisnera won't come back.

Oh... I'm fairly sure I could squeeze you in. With a Paladin, Favored Soul, Wizard, mostly-rogue, and a weak Ghost-Sorceror, you can pretty much play anthing you'd like, as the Basic Four are covered.

Let's see... I beleive Kibin has the lowest XP, at 99,513; level 14 (He's 15th ECL at the moment, though...), so 150,000 gp in items.

Been keeping up on the logs? I can fold you in fairly readily, if you don't mind your character having fallen for a fairly simple and very old style of trapping circumstance. I will want to know beforehand whether you are playing a greedy character or one that disdanes material goods, though; or if a fairly "average" stance on wealth - mostly, would (s)he fall for a 1,000 gp/day salary?

[Violist]

Bloody hell, I'd fall for a 1000 gp/day salary.

[Jack Simth]

Good to hear. Already all nice and planned out.

[Violist]

Stisnera is a cool name... how did you come up with it? I always have such trouble coming up with good names for characters.

[Jack Simth]

Not sure where Stisnera came from, but if you're looking for names, try A Random Name Generator (http://rinkworks.com/namegen/) (that's the website where Derrel's sword got it's name)

[Alneyan]

1,000 gold should be fine, though you shouldn't look too hard for a "plot entrance system" (a Suggestion or some such could work).

I was looking at those Psionic characters again, so I guess I will settle for one of them (Wilder?). Of course, I will use the time-honoured method of picking stuff pretty much randomly.

Any rule on races? (Well, except that it needs to have a Level Adjustment value, and *some* sort of Intelligence)

I made up Stisnera by working on a sonority or two, changing something, adding... Well, you get the picture.

[Violist]

Hmm, cool... finally a solution to the name issue... it's a really good thing we don't have to spell our Derrel's sword's name, or I'd resort to calling her O-blade or something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[NullAshton]

Hey, what do you mean, 'almost rogue'?

[Jack Simth]

"mostly rogue" - you have a few non-rogue hit dice at the moment, which cut down on such abilities as "Disable Device", "Search" and "Sneak Attack".

As for characters - the villans are my job; nothing Evil (Besides - Paladin in the group....).

And it wouldn't be particularly difficult - Planning on putting the party in an area where there would be a lot of people who fell for the 1,000 gp/day salary, and are looking for a way out that doesn't involve being very likely dead.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Sounds fine to me. Just help protect us from the insane dragonette...


I belive the proper term would be either "dragonling" or "wyrmling"; the "ette" ending usually denotes female....

Of course, if you are insinuation that your character might later use a Polymorph of some stripe to change the pronoun.... well, that's up to your... chaotic, wasn't it? ... character.

[Violist]

Oh yes, my mistake. Wyrmling... the little flying lizard who wants to freeze me and scuff up the carriage.

[NullAshton]

Hey, I don't want to freeze you! I'm happy flying around. And I just want to sleep somewhere comfortable.

[Violist]

You could use my mattress http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[NullAshton]

Bah. That beat up old thing?

[Jack Simth]

A simple (2nd level) Clerical Make Whole (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsMtoO.html#make-whole) will take care of that aspect. Of course, any nightmares and your claws will make mincemeat of the thing....

[NullAshton]

Hmmm, claws are a lot of trouble to have.

[Violist]

Did we decide that you can keep your shapeshifted form while asleep? You could change yourself into a claw-less form while sleeping http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Hmm, I never did get around to having that mended, did I? Saved my life, that thing did. Bloody rocks and pits... *grumble*.

[NullAshton]

Meh, then I'd have to dress every night and undress every morning. Kinda weird.

[Violist]

Maybe we could put a leather cover over the mattress? Really though, you'd think the elfanoids among us would be more needing of a mattress than the draconic ones.

[douglas]

Dragons just need a different kind of mattress - a big heap of coins and gems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Mmm, gold...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Meh, then I'd have to dress every night and undress every morning. Kinda weird.

Only if you assume a form where clothing is expected; a monitor lizard, for example, doesn't really need much in the way of coverings.

[NullAshton]

Bah. Then I'd be really tiny. And people would mistake me for a pet again. I don't like being a pet.

[Jack Simth]

A Monitor Lizard (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/monstersAnimal.html#monitor-lizard) is Medium, not tiny.

[NullAshton]

You know, alter self would come in handy several times.

[Violist]

Multiclass to sorceror a few times http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Or ask Kaylin to cast more polymorphs on you...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
You know, alter self would come in handy several times.


For Kibin, it would be rather redundant - you have something akin to Polymorph Self at will - if you wanted to, you could imitate Elorin (Or Kaylin, or Jason, or Derrel) quite effectively. Mind you, you wouldn't have their stats, but it'd be a simple Disguise roll with a +10 bonus for being a magical disguise.

[Violist]

Hmmm... could you imitate me so that next time a monster attacks me, it mistakenly attacks a big tough dragony thing instead of a wimpy little wizard? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Jack Simth]

Whether it's possible depends on how much you invest in the deception - with a lot of your equipment, you only have one such, and it would pretty much only be Kaylin's physical form duplicated. The rest would need to be done with Illusions, Polymorph Any Object (imitation magical equipment - even registers as magical!) or loaned equipment.

[Violist]

That gives me an idea... if I used mislead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mislead.htm), could I then cast spells without getting targetted, or would monsters be smart enough to figure out where it's coming from?

[douglas]

Depends on how obvious the origin of the spell you cast is. A Lightning Bolt coming from your fingertips is a dead giveaway as to where you are, of course, but a Summon Monster just making something appear with no apparent link to the caster would probably fool most monsters. For a Fireball, I'd require a spot check for the monsters to notice where the bead came from, and a bonus to the DC to notice it didn't come from the image if it originated near or even passed through the image. Of course this is all just my take on things, Jack's the DM.

[Violist]

That's kind of what I figured, it'd be reasonable. Spells with a verbal component would also have a Listen check, but probably with some kind of penalty... is there any specifier on how loudly you have to speak, or is an arcane mumble OK?

[Jack Simth]

Depends; casting Silent spells? Verbal components pose a bit of a problem for stealth - what with the speaking in a strong voice; sure, the illusion says exactly the same... but one voice comes from a spot the critter can see, and an identicle voice comes from a spot he can't... knowing deceptive magics exist, what's a likely choice for an intelligent opponent? Casting spells without an obvious effect? Spells such as Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Enervation, and Chain Lighting (to name a few) specify that there is a visual effect emanating from you (bead flys from you, bolt starts at your fingertips, black ray, stroke from fingertips, and the like) which isn't going to be hidden, and anything with eyes to see can tell what square it comes from.

Mind you, you could invisibly move after casting a spell, and no longer be where your location was given away.... or you could prepare Silenced spells that don't have such location-oriented displays.... in which case, it would work quite well.

Edit: a little late, but there is one question I can answer:

Verbal (V): A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). A spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance to spoil any spell with a verbal component that he or she tries to cast.

(emphasis added)

To cast a spell with verbal components, you must speak in a strong voice; the base DC to hear people speaking (a good start for you casting a Verbal component) is 0 (distance modifiers apply...); the DC to pinpoint the square is 20 over that. So DC 20 for the demon you are standing right next to when you cast the spell to pinpoint your location. DC 30 if you are 100 feet away; 40 if 200; 50 if 300; if you are at the limits of the range of your Fireball (at caster level 15th, that's 1000 feet), I'm unlikely to even bother rolling.

[Violist]

Hmm, strong voice. I can understand with the ray spells, but as douglas points out, a tiny bead is going to be hard to see, would there be some DC associated with a Spot check for that?

Next time there's a chance, I should get that scroll... this could be very useful in keeping me alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...Uh...I can tell within five feet where someone is from sound at a considerably farther distance than five feet.

At the very least, I can tell direction.

[Jack Simth]

D&amp;D sound mechanics don't make sense; really, they don't:

A battle has a base DC of -5. At 260 feet, the "average person" can't hear it at all (DC 21). At 300 feet, only wise individuals or those who have spent the time to learn to listen can tell it's there (and even then, only rarely - DC 25). At 400 feet, almost nobody can hear it (DC 35 - for a 20 to work, you need +15 in modifiers; 18 Wis and 11 ranks - an 8th level character!)

A lightning bolt strikes the ground. The thunder can be heard quite reliably and recognizeably in real life for miles. Assuming a base listen check DC of -1000, an "average" D&amp;D character can hear it while sleeping on a roll of 1 at a distance of 9,910 feet. An awake character on roll of 20, 10,200 feet. A sound that has just traveled for well over a mile goes from waking everyone up to barely perceptable by someone extremely lucky in the space of 300 feet. A 20th level Cleric with Wisdom 30 and max ranks in Listen (+33 to check) can't hear it at all (roll of 20 fails) after 10,540 feet.

I'm not quite ready to start house-ruling it yet, though.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Why not use decibels as the base for a number to divide the DC by?

[douglas]

The DC to notice a sound at all should increase with either the log or the square root of the distance, or maybe even the log of the square root since I think that's how decibels decrease with distance. The DC to pinpoint the source location should increase a whole lot faster, though. The DC to hear thunder might reasonably be -10 a mile away, but no one could possibly pinpoint the exact 5 ft square the lightning bolt hit from that distance, so a flat +20 modifier to the DC to make it DC 10 makes no sense.

[NullAshton]

How about loud sounds you can detect the general direction of, but not the exact location?

[Jack Simth]

As I said; the D&amp;D sound mechanics don't make Real Life sense.

I'm actually rather familiar with sound; Decibals are a lot like the Richter Scale for earthquakes - 30 decibals is 10 times the volume of 20 decibals, 20 decibals is 10 times the volume of 10 decibals. Theoretically, you could have a -2,860 decibal sound; in practice, why bother?

Sound is a form of radiant energy; when uncontained, unchanneled, and unabsorbed, it spreads out and weakens at the square of the distance (surface area of a sphere, specifically....) so that something 10 times further away from the source gets 1% of the same energy (e.g., if someone at 10 feet hears 100 decibals, someone at 100 feet hears 80; someone at 1,000 feet hears 60). In practice, though, that theoretical model simply doesn't work; anything soft (people, grass, foilage, cloth...) soaks up the sound; anything irregular (people, ground, furniture, trees) breaks up the sound so that it gets fuzzy. Large, flat, hard surfaces reflect the sound (and large, hard, curved surfaces can be used to do interesting tricks - ever whispered to someone on the other side of the room, had your taget hear you, but not someone directly between? Can be done, easily, in the right room from the right spots).

The D&amp;D mechanics, while not real-world realistic, are simple enough to use and are reasonably balanced (don't give one character type much of an advantage over another) under most circumstances. Gives some bizzare results when applied to real-world situations, but that's okay; D&amp;D isn't the real world.

[Violist]

By the way, in-game, I'm kind of curious as to why everyone is so willing to go along with me to this mysterious far-off land in search of arcane knowledge, when this sorceror is right nearby? Is it because the only way we'll catch up is by increasing our skill, or are there some other motivations?

Just doesn't seem quite reasonable for everyone to say "Oh hey, this elven wizardess chick we've known for about a week wants to travel a thousand miles across an ocean, desert, mountains, in pursuit of knowledge that we can't benefit from unless she stays with us." Not that I'm encouraging dissent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[NullAshton]

Well. We could... get someone in that wizards place to teleport the sorcerer to that place? I dunno. Maybe the sorcerer decided he wanted to make holes in his fireballs too.

[Violist]

Bah. If he's casting Fireballs... you're in for a rough ride http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

Well, we don't know where he is... and he teleports to us... so one location is just as good as any other for trapping him....

[NullAshton]

Yeah. And how many of those archmages do you betcha have dimensional anchor prepared?

[Violist]

Just for him, Dimensional Anchor is on every standard spell list I have...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Because wazzername is a PC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Violist]

Hehe... good point, but you'd think Archmages would be smart enough... no wait, if the good guys in charge were smart, bad guys would never get power...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

That presumes that the bad guys are stupid.

The truth is that 100% safety is a myth. Your brains could be blown out tommorrow.

Most people have trouble with this.

[Violist]

I take solace in the fact that the probability is very small, and also if I allow my mind to be paralysed by the thought, I'd never get anything done. Plus, if it did happen, all the worrying would be in vain anyways. Also, if it happened tomorrow I'd miss some of the D&amp;D session, so I can't imagine that. Sunday, now, I'm free then for some brain reduction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[douglas]

Heh, I finally got around to reading the log of last session and was quite amused by the many failed attempts to kill the bunny, none of which would have happened if I'd been there. First round, I would have followed up Kaylin's successful Mind Fog with Greater Command: Halt! (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandGreater.htm) (DC 23, hard to make with only +5 after Mind Fog's penalty), and my Holy Bow would have gone right through its DR/good and regeneration/good. Oh well, it was much more amusing this way.

Does the newly Animated wagon count as a "creature" (not necessarily living)? If so, it's a valid target for Wind Walk, and I can drastically speed up the rest of the journey.

My next opportunity to pick up Hero's Feast will be at 16th level, unless Kaylin helps out with a Limited Wish. For explaining it IC, I think it would be quite reasonable for Kaylin to complain about all the things that have sent a substantial portion of the party running in fear recently, she's got plenty of Knowledge Arcana to figure out that Hero's Feast would deal with it and that powerful clerics can cast it, and Elorin has demonstrated similarly powerful divine spell casting ability several times in her presence. A fairly short IC conversation would reveal the problem (Elorin's spells known != entire Cleric spell list, unlike for clerics), and Kaylin has already used Limited Wish to fix somewhat similar problems with herself so suggesting it would seem pretty obvious.

On a side note, does it even require a roll for Elorin to be familiar with at least the basic names and capabilities of every spell on the Cleric list, at least the ones of low enough level for him to cast? Unless the character doesn't actually pick his own spells known (i.e. his god picks for him, or the knowledge comes instinctively with no knowledgable guidance, neither of which makes much sense to me without taking the choice away from the player too), I'd think he would have been presented with the list to choose from at some point.

One of my new 7th level spells (Destruction (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/destruction.htm)) requires a 500 gp focus that I haven't gotten yet. Can we just assume that I bought that offscreen before we left seeking the Archmagi?

As for why the party would go along with this side quest, we've exhausted all of our leads on the Sorcerer at the moment, we know he needs a certain bit of knowledge that the only known sources of are in the party, and you do have a stated reason for staying with the party afterwards. Also, if you state that you're going whether we come with you or not, we do have something of a vested interest in making sure such a proven and potent aid in our quest remains alive and able to help. Also, if we didn't accompany you, we'd be stuck trying to track down the Sorcerer without you while you were gone. For a more humorous explanation, see this (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020724) and this (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020802).

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
I take solace in the fact that the probability is very small, and also if I allow my mind to be paralysed by the thought, I'd never get anything done. Plus, if it did happen, all the worrying would be in vain anyways. Also, if it happened tomorrow I'd miss some of the D&amp;D session, so I can't imagine that. Sunday, now, I'm free then for some brain reduction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

But then you'd miss next week's session....


douglas said:
Heh, I finally got around to reading the log of last session and was quite amused by the many failed attempts to kill the bunny, none of which would have happened if I'd been there. First round, I would have followed up Kaylin's successful Mind Fog with Greater Command: Halt! (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandGreater.htm) (DC 23, hard to make with only +5 after Mind Fog's penalty), and my Holy Bow would have gone right through its DR/good and regeneration/good. Oh well, it was much more amusing this way.


Derrel also would have made mincemeat of it (I NPC'd him for the CDG after I was done laughing) but without expending anything not fully and freely renewable.
douglas said:

Does the newly Animated wagon count as a "creature" (not necessarily living)? If so, it's a valid target for Wind Walk, and I can drastically speed up the rest of the journey.


It is now Type: Construct until dispelled (Same Kingdom: +5 (dead vegetable), Same Size: +2 (large), same int: +2 (-); the Polymorph Any Object is permanent for duration factor of +9 or better); yes, it's a valid target. Jason isn't, though, unless you can meet him on the Etherial Plane or he hitches a ride in someone or some such.
douglas said:

My next opportunity to pick up Hero's Feast will be at 16th level, unless Kaylin helps out with a Limited Wish. For explaining it IC, I think it would be quite reasonable for Kaylin to complain about all the things that have sent a substantial portion of the party running in fear recently, she's got plenty of Knowledge Arcana to figure out that Hero's Feast would deal with it and that powerful clerics can cast it, and Elorin has demonstrated similarly powerful divine spell casting ability several times in her presence. A fairly short IC conversation would reveal the problem (Elorin's spells known != entire Cleric spell list, unlike for clerics), and Kaylin has already used Limited Wish to fix somewhat similar problems with herself so suggesting it would seem pretty obvious.


No out of character information needed for such a transaction.
douglas said:

On a side note, does it even require a roll for Elorin to be familiar with at least the basic names and capabilities of every spell on the Cleric list, at least the ones of low enough level for him to cast? Unless the character doesn't actually pick his own spells known (i.e. his god picks for him, or the knowledge comes instinctively with no knowledgable guidance, neither of which makes much sense to me without taking the choice away from the player too), I'd think he would have been presented with the list to choose from at some point.


Oh, you need to roll to know specifically what's available that you don't actually know - either Spellcraft (which tells you information about any spell, regardless of source) or Knoweledge (Religion) (limited to Clerical spells) ... and speaking of which, Knoweledge(Religion) is cross-class for favored souls; your character sheet needs revising in the skill section.

As for how you get them? The Favoured Soul develops a desire to be able to do something, and the diety, if it's something it lets it's clerics do, and if it's not too much for one so inexperienced (e.g., the FS has attained a high enough level that the FS has a spell known available at that level, and the FS hasn't asked for too many), the diety lets the favored soul do so (a limited wish will permit you to go through the process again - seeing you expend such recources, the diety permits it to work for a favored one in full knoweledge).
douglas said:

One of my new 7th level spells (Destruction (http://d20srd.org/srd/spells/destruction.htm)) requires a 500 gp focus that I haven't gotten yet. Can we just assume that I bought that offscreen before we left seeking the Archmagi?


Long as you mark the expense off, sure; it's you basic save-or-die spell.

[Violist]

Holy crap, I want Destruction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

To me it'd make sense if Elorin was at least familiar with the various names of the spells, since he'd probably spend time chatting to other clerics, and surely conversation would eventually come to world-shattering spells, etc.

The Limited Wish idea sounds fine, Kaylin's done it before and wouldn't mind the 300 XP cost...

On another note, I may have an Ultimate Frisbee practice at 0900 PST Saturday, but more on that later. If I'm not on IRC or openRPG by whatever time we decide to start, use the charsheet at
http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Kaylin.html
I'll try to update that whenever necessary. Also, for your edification, Kaylin's Great Warping (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/greatWarping.htm) and Elemental Blast (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/elementalBlast.html) as I believe we haggled out are there.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Holy crap, I want Destruction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif


It's only mildly superior to Finger of Death in it's effects - well... unless you just leave the bodies of your enemies lying about, of course, rather than taking the time to Disintegrate them and scatter the dust; however, it has a focus requirement that Finger of Death lacks, and so can't be readily used when grappled.
Violist said:

To me it'd make sense if Elorin was at least familiar with the various names of the spells, since he'd probably spend time chatting to other clerics, and surely conversation would eventually come to world-shattering spells, etc.




Adventures: Favored souls are often loners, wandering the land serving their deities. They are welcomed by their churches but treated as unusual and are sometimes misunderstood. They are emissaries of their deities and outside the church's command structure - respected mystics not requiring the support normally crucial to a priest's success. This makes them sometimes revered and sometimes envied by their cleric cousins. While favored souls are occasionally disrespected for their perceived lack of discipline, devout worshippers know that they are a powerful message from, and indeed a living manifestation of, their deities.

(emphasis added)
He may have talked to clerics, but he doesn't get automatic access to the full list like a cleric does, he doesn't really stay in one place, and so on; he does not automatically know everything. Kaylin, on the other hand, has a very good Spellcraft roll....

Violist said:

The Limited Wish idea sounds fine, Kaylin's done it before and wouldn't mind the 300 XP cost...

On another note, I may have an Ultimate Frisbee practice at 0900 PST Saturday, but more on that later. If I'm not on IRC or openRPG by whatever time we decide to start, use the charsheet at
http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Kaylin.html
I'll try to update that whenever necessary. Also, for your edification, Kaylin's Great Warping (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/greatWarping.htm) and Elemental Blast (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/elementalBlast.html) as I believe we haggled out are there.

Ahh... so we may be a little bit short of Blasting power tomorrow. Shouldn't pose too much of a problem; easily adaptable (although a little odd that your character won't be participating on the journey for her side-quest....)

[Violist]

Well, if I am gone, it'd only be for a few hours. Perhaps she's cramming in case there's an entrance exam? Just NPC her, and here's the standard spell lists (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/kaylin_standardspells.txt) I've come up with. Hopefully I won't be late or there isn't practice, coach is being evil right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Hmm, I was unaware that "Favored Souls" are different than clerics... my Spellcraft roll isn't that great, why just the other day I rolled a 33! *cough*

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Well, if I am gone, it'd only be for a few hours. Perhaps she's cramming in case there's an entrance exam? Just NPC her, and here's the standard spell lists (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/kaylin_standardspells.txt) I've come up with. Hopefully I won't be late or there isn't practice, coach is being evil right now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Hmm, I was unaware that "Favored Souls" are different than clerics... my Spellcraft roll isn't that great, why just the other day I rolled a 33! *cough*

Yeah... that's what you get on a nat 3. Out of combat, I'd suggest taking 10, if it wasn't kinda redundant.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
It is now Type: Construct until dispelled (Same Kingdom: +5 (dead vegetable), Same Size: +2 (large), same int: +2 (-); the Polymorph Any Object is permanent for duration factor of +9 or better); yes, it's a valid target. Jason isn't, though, unless you can meet him on the Etherial Plane or he hitches a ride in someone or some such.


Here I was, all set to argue that he's considered merely incorporeal when manifesting, so at worst I'd have a 50% miss chance and by a strict reading of the rules even that only applies to damage, when I noticed that the Manifestation ability specifically disallows a ghost's touch spells from affecting material targets. Technically it doesn't say anything about touch spells from material sources not affecting the ghost, but it makes some sense that it would go both ways, so I won't argue. Hmm, maybe we should get a pet of some sort for him to ride in when we're travelling long distances with Wind Walk.

Jack Simth said:
Oh, you need to roll to know specifically what's available that you don't actually know - either Spellcraft (which tells you information about any spell, regardless of source) or Knoweledge (Religion) (limited to Clerical spells)


What's the DC? Spellcraft for identifying a spell being cast is 15+level, and that implies knowledge of the specific gestures, incantations, etc used to cast it. I'd imagine knowledge of a spell's existence and a general idea of its effects would be considerably lower DC. I'm not sure how or even if using Knowledge (Religion) instead would change it - it's more specific (cleric spells only), but it's also not as focused on that particular subject.

Jack Simth said:
... and speaking of which, Knoweledge(Religion) is cross-class for favored souls; your character sheet needs revising in the skill section.


Oops, I didn't look at the class skills list very closely and just assumed that any primary divine caster would have Knowledge (Religion) on the list just like every arcane spellcasting class I know of has Knowledge (Arcana).

Hmm, I just checked, and Favored Soul is the ONLY divine spellcasting class I could find that doesn't have either one of Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Nature) on its class list, and the Epic Spellcasting (http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) feat makes it pretty clear that those two knowledge skills, along with Knowledge (Arcana), are considered very highly related to spellcasting in general. Given that, it just doesn't make sense to me for a primary spellcasting class to not have the appropriate knowledge skill on its class list when classes like Paladin and Ranger, which give spellcasting as a minor or secondary feature, do. Knowledge (Arcana) is on the Favored Soul list, but it's linked to arcane spellcasting, not divine. I think Knowledge (Religion) was left off the list or replaced with Knowledge (Arcana) by mistake.

Edit: In case you want to argue that the Favored Soul's lack of scholarly study is the reason, consider this quote from the PHB concerning Sorcerers and the fact that Knowledge (Arcana), their relevant "spellcasting" knowledge skill, is on their class list anyway: "Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of
rigorous study that wizards go through, they don’t have the
background of arcane knowledge than most wizards have."

Jack Simth said:
As for how you get them? The Favoured Soul develops a desire to be able to do something, and the diety, if it's something it lets it's clerics do, and if it's not too much for one so inexperienced (e.g., the FS has attained a high enough level that the FS has a spell known available at that level, and the FS hasn't asked for too many), the diety lets the favored soul do so (a limited wish will permit you to go through the process again - seeing you expend such recources, the diety permits it to work for a favored one in full knoweledge).


Ok, that makes sense. The character decides it would be nice if he could do a particular thing, and the deity looks for a spell that matches.

Jack Simth said:
Long as you mark the expense off, sure; it's you basic save-or-die spell.


Except that this one actually has decent damage on a successful save (10d6) and it's a bit harder to bring someone back who got killed by it than usual - nothing short of True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle will do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Jack Simth]

[/quote]
douglas said:
Here I was, all set to argue that he's considered merely incorporeal when manifesting, so at worst I'd have a 50% miss chance and by a strict reading of the rules even that only applies to damage, when I noticed that the Manifestation ability specifically disallows a ghost's touch spells from affecting material targets. Technically it doesn't say anything about touch spells from material sources not affecting the ghost, but it makes some sense that it would go both ways, so I won't argue. Hmm, maybe we should get a pet of some sort for him to ride in when we're travelling long distances with Wind Walk.


Well... he doesn't currently have a familiar... hmm... what to get...
douglas said:

What's the DC? Spellcraft for identifying a spell being cast is 15+level, and that implies knowledge of the specific gestures, incantations, etc used to cast it. I'd imagine knowledge of a spell's existence and a general idea of its effects would be considerably lower DC. I'm not sure how or even if using Knowledge (Religion) instead would change it - it's more specific (cleric spells only), but it's also not as focused on that particular subject.


Oh, 10+spell level to know it exists for either; better rolls give more information
douglas said:

Oops, I didn't look at the class skills list very closely and just assumed that any primary divine caster would have Knowledge (Religion) on the list just like every arcane spellcasting class I know of has Knowledge (Arcana).

Hmm, I just checked, and Favored Soul is the ONLY divine spellcasting class I could find that doesn't have either one of Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (Nature) on its class list, and the Epic Spellcasting (http://d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#epicSpellcasting) feat makes it pretty clear that those two knowledge skills, along with Knowledge (Arcana), are considered very highly related to spellcasting in general. Given that, it just doesn't make sense to me for a primary spellcasting class to not have the appropriate knowledge skill on its class list when classes like Paladin and Ranger, which give spellcasting as a minor or secondary feature, do. Knowledge (Arcana) is on the Favored Soul list, but it's linked to arcane spellcasting, not divine. I think Knowledge (Religion) was left off the list or replaced with Knowledge (Arcana) by mistake.


Spellcraft is specific knoweledge about spells; it's the theory of how magic works (arcane or divine); every primary (and most secondary) spellcaster has Spellcraft on their class list (including the Favored Soul), as far as I'm aware. Knoweledge(Arcana) is "ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts" - more a history of magic and magical critters; it's almost impossible for a Wizard to do without Spellcraft (can't copy spells!), but Knoweledge(Arcana) is mostly for synergy (with spellcraft), clues, some monster information, and epic spellcasting; Knoweledge(Arcana) is about the stuff; Spellcraft is about the magic. Knoweledge(Religion) is very similar to Knoweledge(Arcana): "gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead" - church theology, traditions, history, symbols (plot-related clues, mostly) and undead (monster info).

Also, an inherent limitation of the class (such as relying on two spellcasting stats); helps balance those monk-perfect saves, energy resitances, and eventual flight and DR 10.

douglas said:
Edit: In case you want to argue that the Favored Soul's lack of scholarly study is the reason, consider this quote from the PHB concerning Sorcerers and the fact that Knowledge (Arcana), their relevant "spellcasting" knowledge skill, is on their class list anyway: "Since sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of
rigorous study that wizards go through, they don’t have the
background of arcane knowledge than most wizards have."


Sorcerors studying arcane secrets is a common thing in fiction, so Sorcerors have access to the magical history skill and spell theory; however, a Sorceror can get by quite readily without either Spellcraft or Knoweledge(Arcana), and so doesn't need rigorus training (regular will do, or even none at all) although both are still useful (identifying scrolls, potions, and spells (spellcraft); recognizing ancient magical artifacts, predicting magical beasts, and solving those ancient puzzles (Arcana)) the Sorceror's short but flexible spell list makes knowing about the critter in question far less useful than it is to a wizard's long but restricted spell list - the sorceror can see if the fireball or the lightning bolt does better (and has the extra spell slots to do so), and lay down more of whichever was more effective; the wizard must prepare in advance.
douglas said:
Ok, that makes sense. The character decides it would be nice if he could do a particular thing, and the deity looks for a spell that matches.


For instance, Destruction would be wanting to make your enemies simply go away... for good.
douglas said:
Except that this one actually has decent damage on a successful save (10d6) and it's a bit harder to bring someone back who got killed by it than usual - nothing short of True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle will do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Yep; a single Cleric or Wizard two levels above the party (or a Rogue or Bard with Use Magic Device and a scroll or two; perhaps a Sorceror or Wizard with Planar Binding (for Ifreet - they can grant three wishes to a mortal in a single day)). Not so hard, really, for a DM.

Mind you, save-or-die effects work both ways. How does a CR 16 encounter with a Favored Soul 16 with the Divine Reach metamagic feat, Harm, Heal, Wind Wall, spell reistance, Distruction, Protection from Energy, and a Bead of Karma (Caster level 20; Dispel Magic DC 31....) standing in winged boots sound? Fort save-or die for the Rogue &amp; Wizard, Will save or die for the Paladin, Death for the ghost (half of 150 is death for Jason; although of a temporary nature, so the will half doesn't matter), spells mostly fail, arrows don't hit, and swords can't reach. And nominally only CR 16; a "Very Difficult" but hardly game-breaking encounter, by the book, although the extra wealth could probably push it to Encounter Level 17.

[NullAshton]

Jack, you could get a silver dragon as a familar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

Barring the Improved Familiar feat, a familiar needs to start out as a mundane animal; as a full-fledged (if small) dragon, Kibin doesn't quite qualify.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Also, an inherent limitation of the class (such as relying on two spellcasting stats); helps balance those monk-perfect saves, energy resitances, and eventual flight and DR 10.


How is taking Knowledge (Religion) off the class list a significant balance adjustment? It's hardly something a powergamer would spend much time considering when deciding whether to take the class or not, with the singular exception of if he were making an epic character and Epic Spellcasting was a major feature of his plan. Anyway, since my choice of that skill for the second of my two skill points per level was based on mistaken information and not a major part of my character concept, can I change it to something else if you're not going to let me take it as a class skill? Or do I have to pay the extra xp to take Psychic Reformation all the way back to 1st level (350 instead of 75 for me, 350 instead of 300 for Kaylin)?

Jack Simth said:
Mind you, save-or-die effects work both ways. How does a CR 16 encounter with a Favored Soul 16 with the Divine Reach metamagic feat, Harm, Heal, Wind Wall, spell reistance, Distruction, Protection from Energy, and a Bead of Karma (Caster level 20; Dispel Magic DC 31....) standing in winged boots sound? Fort save-or die for the Rogue &amp; Wizard, Will save or die for the Paladin, Death for the ghost (half of 150 is death for Jason; although of a temporary nature, so the will half doesn't matter), spells mostly fail, arrows don't hit, and swords can't reach. And nominally only CR 16; a "Very Difficult" but hardly game-breaking encounter, by the book, although the extra wealth could probably push it to Encounter Level 17.


Oh, I think we could handle it, just as soon as I get some ranks in Spellcraft (instantly if you let me change it out because of the mistake with Knowledge (Religion), otherwise when Kaylin casts Limited Wish to let me get Hero's Feast). Harm, Heal, and Destruction are all on my spells known list, so I could counter them without needing a caster level check. Meanwhile, Kibin can fly around the Wind Wall to attack or breathe at him, Kaylin could get through the SR pretty easily to blast him (throw enough save-or-die spells and he's sure to fail eventually, and she's got a few non-energy damage spells), and Jason could probably grapple him without too much difficulty (it's a Supernatural Ability for him, so SR does not apply).

Edit: Also, the NPC's caster level of 20 does nothing to prevent suppression of his Winged Boots with a targeted Dispel Magic (CL 5, so DC 16).

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Switching out for Spellcraft or Knoweledge (Arcana) is fine.

And yes, you could get such a character; but chances are he'd be taking someone down every round until then, with a properly distanced setup; Kaylin only has 51 HP and SR 18; a caster level 20 Harm, even if she makes the save, will still do 75 damage; instant death. Kibin is made of sterner stuff, but his will save is only +9 or so; a farily minimal Reach Harm would have a Will save of 18 (5th level spell, 7th level slot; minimum primary casting stat 17) but probably considerably more; and you're right; the boots could be taken out; good catch - needs Spell Immunity, then.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Server online.


I'll be on after I get some lunch.

Jack Simth said:
Switching out for Spellcraft or Knoweledge (Arcana) is fine.


Thank you.

Jack Simth said:
And yes, you could get such a character; but chances are he'd be taking someone down every round until then, with a properly distanced setup;


Last I checked, Reach Spell and the Hierophant's Divine Reach ability only have a range of 30 feet.

Jack Simth said:
Kaylin only has 51 HP and SR 18; a caster level 20 Harm, even if she makes the save, will still do 75 damage; instant death.


Quote from Harm spell description: "but it cannot reduce the target’s hit points to less than 1"

Jack Simth said:
and you're right; the boots could be taken out; good catch - needs Spell Immunity, then.


Spell Immunity does not protect against spells that don't allow SR, so it can't block Dispel Magic.

[Violist]

There wouldn't happen to be any way by which I could increase my HP, is there? All that discussion of lots of damage is really scary...

[douglas]

The obvious way would be to increase your constitution. Heroes' Feast also gives 1d8+7 temporary HP as a side benefit.

[douglas]

An interesting article on Lawful and Chaotic alignments and the Paladin's Code (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a)

[NullAshton]

Did you crash?

[NullAshton]

Nevermind, come on back now...

[Jack Simth]

Back a little bit earlier than expected. Yummy meal.

[douglas]

Treasure division for loot acquired before this session. If the gp amount at the bottom of your entry is negative, that means you owe that much to the party loot pool, preferably in cash:

100000 gp diamond - focus for Kaylin's Great Warping. Keep in case we need to Warp something again, sell, or what? Unreasonable to count as part of Kaylin's share in my opinion.

Kibin:
Bracers of Armor +7 (49,000 gp), +4 Mithril Chain Shirt exchanged (17250) (31750 difference)
Amulet of Natural Armor +4 (32,000 gp), Amulet +2 exchanged (8000) (24000 difference)
Ring of Protection +4 (32,000 gp), Ring +2 exchanged (8000) (24000 difference)
-45439.7 gp

Jason:
Orange Prisim Ioun Stone, (30,000 gp)
+1/+1 Quarterstaff (4,600 gp)
-289.7 gp

Derrel:
Ring +2 from Kibin
Amulet +2 from Kibin
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (5,000 gp)
+13310.3 gp

Kaylin:
Monk's Belt (13,000 gp)
+21310.3 gp

Elorin:
+34310.3 gp

Sell
+4 Mithril Chain Shirt from Kibin
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (16,000 gp)
Spell Components Pouch (5 gp)
Spell Components Pouch (5 gp)
Masterwork Dagger (302 gp)
Masterwork Dagger (302 gp)
Large Spear +1 (2,604 gp)
potion of darkvision (300 gp)
potion of darkvision (300 gp)
scroll
arcane (175 gp)
Cat's Grace (l2, cl3)
Charm Person (l1, cl1)
arcane (25 gp)
Spider Climb (l1, cl1)
divine (325 gp)
Hold Person (l2, cl3)
Calm Animals (l1, cl1)
Stonetell (l2, cl3)

Party ownership:
Carriage
Light Horse
Light Horse

Not yet appraised:
art
amber gold earring
black velvet mask with numerous lapis lazuli gems
ceramic doll
electrum bracer with mock scales and four citrine gems
false hand, solid silver, with ivory nails
false hand, solid silver, with ivory nails
gold dragon comb with red garnet eye
hairpins, gilded, with sard stones
jeweled electrum ring
mithril brooch with deep blue spinel stones
ornamental saddle, embellished with gems and scenes of horsemanship
platinum flask inlaid with gold and silver designs
seashell fingerpick
well-wrought miniature scale castle

[Violist]

Whoa, you're organised. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif I think I'll leave accountancy up to you from now on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

Server closed. One Sorceror and lots of little imp-possessed miners killed; out in the middle of a desert; 900 xp each for battles fought; Elroin - you're 14th, aren't you? If so, that means you get 1260 xp, rather than 900, for battles fought. Derrel's sword upgraded with the Holy special ability - which incidentally also raises her Ego score by 2.

900 xp each for combat; by the book, nothing for the traps; 1000 plot xp each for puzzles puzzled out.

Oh, and who role-played best today?

As for loot, I'd honestly suggest breaking up the diamond into smaller pieces incase I accidentally kill someone.....

[douglas]

I told you I had it all figured out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Violist]

So what does the Ego score on a weapon do, anyways?

I can't tell who roleplayed the best... but this whole language thing opens up a world of fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/firedevil.gif

Breaking up the diamond... if we put it back together, would it still work as a focus? Unlikely I'd need to cast Great Warping again, but a honkin' big diamond is still cool to have.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Elroin - you're 14th, aren't you? If so, that means you get 1260 xp, rather than 900, for battles fought.


Yep, and I still need about 1500 more to level, even with the plot xp bonus, and I've got 3600 xp worth of crafting planned...

Jack Simth said:
Oh, and who role-played best today?


Kibin, I think, though I think we all did better at that this time than the past few session.

Jack Simth said:
As for loot, I'd honestly suggest breaking up the diamond into smaller pieces incase I accidentally kill someone.....


If that can be done without decreasing the total value, that would be enough for 10 Resurrections. Just make sure I'm not the one you accidentally kill.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ok, I'll take that loot division.

The Ego score determines which person a sentient weapon thinks should be weilded.

It's sort of an artificial way of keeping a sentient weapon as more than a Thinking Trinket +5: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=154

On the other hand, it could also hinder role-playing to have a strictly-enforced ego complex.

[douglas]

Violist said:
So what does the Ego score on a weapon do, anyways?


http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm#itemEgo

Hmm, I just checked, and Oraneormu's Ego score is now just 1 short of considering itself superior to any character.

[Jack Simth]

The Ego score does many things.... mostly, it acts as the Will save DC in player vs. item; it also influences how many negative levels an inappropriet wielder gains when when picking it up. Now, as the sword is lawful-good, and Derrel's Lawful-good, he's an appropriet wielder; as long as he maintains his Paladin's Oath, she will serve him faithfully. If a Chaotic-Evil character picked her up, though, the CE would "gain" two or three negative levels (perhaps four; I haven't looked at it that closely recently), and then have to make a Will save (with the penalty!) or make a concession to the sword - which would likely mean giving the sword to someone else (e.g., back to Derrel).

[Violist]

If we're doing crafting, can I help you with that? I've got 2688 XP to burn before losing a level.. oh, and we forgot to do the Limited Wish thing.

Any tips on how to roleplay well?

[Violist]

crap. the &lt;/a&gt; tag I typed didn't ... work..

Sorry for making the whole into a link... it still works..

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
If a Chaotic-Evil character picked her up, though, the CE would "gain" two or three negative levels (perhaps four; I haven't looked at it that closely recently)


Two. One for not matching the alignment of an intelligent weapon with Ego &lt;20 and another for being evil and wielding a Holy weapon. One more Ego point, and the penalty for non-matching alignment goes up by one negative level and it gets a superiority complex.

[douglas]

Violist said:
If we're doing crafting, can I help you with that? I've got 2688 XP to burn before losing a level..


Yes, you could. The question is, would you?

Violist said:
oh, and we forgot to do the Limited Wish thing.


In character, I wouldn't come up with the idea of using Limited Wish in that way on my own and I have no clue about you using it already for yourself. That conversation will have to be started by you, though I could give you an OOC reminder.

[Violist]

Would I? Certainly, any time... just ask... and yeah, I forgot about the Limited Wish thing in character and out...

[Jack Simth]

And that's why you need to balance your HTML tags. It's fixable....

That should do it... see attached.

[douglas]

Hmm, is it possible for a crafter to "collaborate" with someone who doesn't satisfy any of the requirements for creating a magic item and have that person pay the xp cost? I imagine there would be quite a number of people willing to sell some portion of their "personal energy" (not to be confused with souls) represented by xp for the right price, and there's a standard conversion rate between xp and gp cost of 5 gp/xp that could be used as the standard going rate.

[Violist]

I'm guessing Alneyran (sorry for the spelling) will have his character as one of the newly freed miners? That crafting idea is interesting... considering I can craft Magic Arms and Armour, and Scribe Scrolls, someone willing to pay XP costs for mere gold would be quite handy.

Alongside the Monk's Belt, I'd probably like the "mithril brooch with spinal stones" from the Countess/Dragon encounter. From yesterday's Miner encounter...

finely wrought gold bracelet (50 gp)...
the Wings of Flying would be nice, but they're way above equal treasure share for any of us...

So that brings my total to +21260.3 gp if today's loot division was counted, if it wasn't, add an additional 13955.46 to a total of +35215.76 gp, if my 2-AM-math isn't wrong. That'd probably be in cash, once we get to a town... I vote the party sends Kibby to find a farmer, then we sell the horses. Wind Walk (That does work on the animated transports, right?) back to Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe, sell the loot, buy new stuff, and head on down to the smart dudes. Plus, that'd allow us access to the quick-time portal thing for crafting... whatever it was Elorin wanted crafting. Aaand I could research Elemental Blast, which I've been wanting as a general combat spell...

Sell that Headband +4 and get a Headband +6, give all my spells a little more oomph plus the ability to cast 2 level 8 spells per day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Brings my AC up to 20, flat-footed to 18, touch AC 15... nice... interesting, I can now do more damage with an unarmed attack (1d8ish) than with the dagger (1d4). So much for sharp stuff.

[NullAshton]

With 4 dragon hitdie, can I get all the bonuses of being a dragon? Seeing how the level adjustment is 4...

[Jack Simth]

Well, I was actually hoping Alneyan would show up at yesterday's session, but that obviously didn't happen; the plan would have been for him to show up at the recruiting station at the same time as the party; ah well.

A Wyrmling Silver Dragon has a level adjustment of 4 and seven racial hit dice - ECL 11. Combined with your 13 Rogue levels, that would have to wait until ECL 24.

Seriously, though - what benefits are you missing? You apprear to be reading the feat entry incorrectly; they don't get a bonus feat, they get character level feats based on their hit dice - one at 1st and one additional feat per 3 hit dice - hence the 45 HD example Force Dragon in the Epic section having 16 feats; "just like any other creature." You already have all the special abilities listed for the Wyrmling (Alternate Form, Immunity to Cold and Acid, Vulnerability to Fire, Cloudwalking); the Spell-like abilities don't start until Adult stage, they don't get a Sorcerous caster level until Young, and no SR until Young Adult. Your BAB should now be +10 (over the Wyrmlings +7); your attack bonus of +12 (+10 BAB, +1 Size, +1 Strength) is over the wyrmlings +9; your Grapple check is correspondingly higher (+7 vs. the Wyrmlings +4); your current saves of +7/+10/+7 beat the Wyrmlings +6/+5/+7; you have the same breath weapon (at a higher DC), the same flight speed, the same inherent natural armor, and the same size bonus to AC; in addition, you have lots of equipment that raises your AC even more; you have a great many more skill points from your Rogue levels (rogue gets 8+Int Mod per level, while dragon gets 6+Int Mod per HD). Okay - so your Wisdom and Charisma are a few points lower - but that could easily be passed off as simple random variance.

[Violist]

That was a really cool session; where'd you get the idea of using a song for the storyline?

If anyone's planning on a song-based session, might I suggest Johnny Cope (http://www.contemplator.com/scotland/cope.html)? Pretty good for getting some interesting warrior types or cultural interactions... plus there's the inherent premise of a race to get somewhere which could be cool. Just my two cents.

[Jack Simth]

Well... the song popped into my head while doing overtime at work... and I knew something of the history that caused the song....

[Violist]

Oooh, what's the history behind it? I'm guessing something during mining era, perhaps California gold rush?

[Jack Simth]

Coal, specifically; not gold, in West Virginia (although the same thing happened in many, many different forms over the years with different stuffs - many mined minerals, sharcroppers, and the like). Basically, though, it was a way for wealthier landowners to get labor dirt cheap - the company rents the equipment (be it land and or tools) to the workers; pays them in script (good only at the company store) and then (as the company has a monopoly on redeeming the specific script) charges whatever rates they feel like for such things as food, clothing, doctor bills, building materials, and such. Come the end of the month (sped things up to a day to make it a little more obvious, and shorten the session) the miners/sharecroppers/whatever were paid in script, which they then spent at the company store - but as the company store knew what everyone was paid, and could charge whatever they liked, it was a very rare thing for a miner/sharecropper/what have you to get ahead (had someone rolled a 15 or better, I would have had them actually get gold - but it didn't come up, so....) - so they fell into debt. Day after day, year after year; after a point, they'd joke that they couldn't die now, as they owed their soul to the company store (I made this part slightly more literal...). In many ways, it was a way to get what was essentially slaves after slavery was illeagal. Took a little more bookeeping, though.

[NullAshton]

Can the spell at least not show up on detect magic? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

Ah, but your supernatural Alternate Form shows up under Detect Magic as well....

And seriously - he didn't react all that badly.

[Violist]

All them menfolk really care about is the female bits stay around...

[Jack Simth]

Only the low wisdom menfolk (he had a -2 Wis modifier....); those with a little more discernment see deeper.

And Null - if you want Kibin to register as nonmagical, convince Violist to have Kaylin learn Misdirection (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsMtoO.html#misdirection) and cast an Extended version of it on Kibin daily.

Hmm... Jason already has it.... and Extend..... and the Will save DC would be 22....

[Violist]

Given Kaylin's desire to learn more spells, it won't take much convincing... pity it can't be made Permanent. Convincing would probably be something along the lines of "I'll split the scroll cost with you 50/50."

Aand... learning Permanency would be very nice for me, 'cause then I could cast stuff like Permanent See Invisible, Permanent Detect Magic... ahh, the fun I could have... speaking of which, are we planning to head over to Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe for some selling/buying?

[Jack Simth]

You have Limited Wish; you don't need Permanency:


Limited Wish

Universal
Level: Sor/Wiz 7 Components: V, S, XP Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: See text Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

*

Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
*

Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
*

Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
*

Duplicate any other spell of 4th level or lower, even if it’s of a prohibited school.
*

Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.
*

Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack or taking a –7 penalty on its next saving throw.

A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal (but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell). When a limited wish duplicates a spell that has an XP cost, you must pay that cost or 300 XP, whichever is more. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component.

XP Cost: 300 XP or more (see above).

(Empahsis added)

And then note that the Permanency is a 5th level Sor/Wiz spell, and the lowest XP cost on the table is 500 - so no matter how you slice it, when you use Limited Wish to duplicate Permanency, the only recourse you are using more of than actually using Permanency is a spell slot two levels higher - which is renewable.

Hmm... what would be the best familiar for Jason....

[Violist]

Wooow... I didn't even _think_ of Limited Wish. Got so used to thinking "XP cost, don't use too much", and forgot that I'd be paying XP anyways...

Edit: Time to start setting Symbols of Whatever on my spellbook... and the bag, and the carriage... Hmm, overkill. Well, I just need XP and Limited Wish castings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

A hawk, for the fly speed, then sit on Kaylin's shoulder and pretend to be her familiar.... maybe cast some 3rd level spells as both Silent and Stilled.... learn Polymorph at some point....

[Violist]

Oooh familiars... and I get a pretty hawk on my shoulder. I hope it's well-trained. Mmmm... Those symbols look pretty with DC 24 or 25 saves or else some pretty nasty effects...

Why do you need silent or stilled spells? I could help out with Polymorph, if you needed it - aren't sorceror spells known a wee bit limited?

[Jack Simth]

Possessed Hawk, usually; and Familiars are intelligent anyway; as a Sorceror 10, Jason's familiar would have an Int score of 10; one for Kaylin would have an Int of 13. Mostly, though, the idea is to have a reliable ride and target for such things as Wind Walk, that's not stepping on anyone's toes.

Well, Polymorph is only good for about 15 minutes or so; basically a single combat, perhaps two if they are really close together; Silent and Still overcome the little issue of a lack of fine manipulators (Still) and the ability to speak (Silent) (Jason already has both feats) so that he can place, say, a Magic Circle Against Evil (+2 Deflection vs. attacks from evil creatures, +2 to saves from effects from evil creatures, counters mind control ... which would supress Jason's control over his familiar.....) on his first action in combat. Alternately, he's a non-target while Telekenetically throwing things around, or casting a nifty Invisibility Spehere that then covers the party... which he can drop on the Rogue without using an extra spell slot and round.

Of course, it's a higher level spell slot... hmm... probably better, under most circumstances, to simply stay manifested and cast normally; that same Invisibility Sphere or Magic Circle Against Evil could be cast on Jason by Jason, giving most of the same benefits, and using a lower level spell slot ... which would then leave Jason free to use Shadow Conjouration (silent) with any noncombatants to drop creatures every here and there to give Kibin flanking for sneak attacks....

Kaylin could also get a familiar; a more powerful one, for that matter, with the five level difference.

[douglas]

Still not answered:

douglas said:
Hmm, is it possible for a crafter to "collaborate" with someone who doesn't satisfy any of the requirements for creating a magic item and have that person pay the xp cost? I imagine there would be quite a number of people willing to sell some portion of their "personal energy" (not to be confused with souls) represented by xp for the right price, and there's a standard conversion rate between xp and gp cost of 5 gp/xp that could be used as the standard going rate.



Violist said:
Alongside the Monk's Belt, I'd probably like the "mithril brooch with spinal stones" from the Countess/Dragon encounter. From yesterday's Miner encounter...

finely wrought gold bracelet (50 gp)...


Art items that you want entirely for RP reasons rather than because they have useful properties for adventuring (because they don't) should be counted at the sale price, in my opinion. My practice of counting items we keep at full value is intended to prevent characters who just happen to be able to use more of the loot we find than anyone else from becoming more powerful than everyone else by happenstance. Since ordinary jewelry and such has no effect on character power, that principle just doesn't apply to it so it should only count for what not selling it would take away from the party.

Violist said:
the Wings of Flying would be nice, but they're way above equal treasure share for any of us...


Agreed, unless someone has a big pile of cash saved up to pay for it like Kibin did with all his new AC boosting items.

Violist said:
I vote the party sends Kibby to find a farmer, then we sell the horses. Wind Walk (That does work on the animated transports, right?) back to Ye Olde Magicke Shoppe, sell the loot, buy new stuff, and head on down to the smart dudes. Plus, that'd allow us access to the quick-time portal thing for crafting... whatever it was Elorin wanted crafting. Aaand I could research Elemental Blast, which I've been wanting as a general combat spell...


The Archmagi are almost certainly capable of providing everything Ye Olde Majicke Shoppe can. It's a sizable organization whose membership consists entirely of level 13+ arcane spellcasters, surely at least a few of them would have gone into business crafting things, and they can almost certainly set up their own crafting portal in short order once we suggest it to them if they don't already have one.

Violist said:
Sell that Headband +4 and get a Headband +6, give all my spells a little more oomph plus the ability to cast 2 level 8 spells per day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Assuming you have or learn Fox's Cunning, you could collaborate with me to upgrade that. You'd both get a 50% discount on the upgrade price (but pay some xp) and avoid losing money to the 50% discount on what you sell.

Violist said:
Brings my AC up to 20, flat-footed to 18, touch AC 15... nice... interesting, I can now do more damage with an unarmed attack (1d8ish) than with the dagger (1d4). So much for sharp stuff.


Except that it doesn't grant Improved Unarmed Strike (http://d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike), unless Jack rules that that's included in the "unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk". Without that, attacking unarmed provokes attacks of opportunity and can only deal nonlethal damage.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Still not answered:

douglas said:
Hmm, is it possible for a crafter to "collaborate" with someone who doesn't satisfy any of the requirements for creating a magic item and have that person pay the xp cost? I imagine there would be quite a number of people willing to sell some portion of their "personal energy" (not to be confused with souls) represented by xp for the right price, and there's a standard conversion rate between xp and gp cost of 5 gp/xp that could be used as the standard going rate.





Umm... no. That sends my balance alarms ringing; the xp cost mechaninic needs to stay in place - as suggested, that would reduce items to 70% of the market price with little or no drawback; I would permit drawing off a willing PC (E.g., getting Kibin to contribute XP to improving his Bracers of Armor) as then the drawbacks are still in place (XP lost from the party) for the gains (less GP spent on items).

douglas said:

Violist said:
Brings my AC up to 20, flat-footed to 18, touch AC 15... nice... interesting, I can now do more damage with an unarmed attack (1d8ish) than with the dagger (1d4). So much for sharp stuff.


Except that it doesn't grant Improved Unarmed Strike (http://d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike), unless Jack rules that that's included in the "unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk". Without that, attacking unarmed provokes attacks of opportunity and can only deal nonlethal damage.

Oh... I'd let it grant the feat... but seriously, when's she going to use it - in an Anti-Magic Field?

[Violist]

I see your point with the Archmagi having a portal, but would they be willing to purchase these loot items? Also, I have Fox's Cunning, so a little collaboration there would be excellent.

[douglas]

Jack Simth said:
Umm... no. That sends my balance alarms ringing; the xp cost mechaninic needs to stay in place - as suggested, that would reduce items to 70% of the market price with little or no drawback; I would permit drawing off a willing PC (E.g., getting Kibin to contribute XP to improving his Bracers of Armor) as then the drawbacks are still in place (XP lost from the party) for the gains (less GP spent on items).


So yes, but in party only. Oh well. Let's see, now what else can I do to bring down crafting expenses... I know, I'll start making everything usable by good-aligned Favored Souls only! That comes out to a 60% discount (http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#otherConsiderations), right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif Just kidding, I'm not that much of a munchkin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Jack Simth said:
Oh... I'd let it grant the feat... but seriously, when's she going to use it - in an Anti-Magic Field?


Maybe when she's been Swallowed Whole (http://d20srd.org/srd/naturalSpecialAbilities.htm#swallowWhole)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Oh wait, that requires piercing or slashing damage to cut your way out, and I don't see how something could get an AoO against something inside its own stomach anyway.

It might actually matter if someone tries grappling (http://d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple) her, but that doesn't seem a very likely circumstance.

[Violist]

Eeeek... it'd be vaguely interesting to cast something inside something's mouth, though that'd be one heck of a Concentration DC... would you get any more damage for automatically hitting the innards?

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
Maybe when she's been Swallowed Whole (http://d20srd.org/srd/naturalSpecialAbilities.htm#swallowWhole)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif Oh wait, that requires piercing or slashing damage to cut your way out, and I don't see how something could get an AoO against something inside its own stomach anyway.

It might actually matter if someone tries grappling (http://d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple) her, but that doesn't seem a very likely circumstance.

And if she prepares Dimension Door (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/spellsDtoE.html#dimension-door) regularly (hey, it's only a 4th level spell) then she has a rather quick out for grapples or getting swallowed that rely only on a concentration check, and take but a single standard action.

Well, as long as she doesn't get pinned (srd.pbemnexus.com/abilitiesAndConditions.html#pinned) and unable to speak... as she doesn't have the Silent Spell (http://srd.pbemnexus.com/featsAll.html#silent-spell) feat.

[Violist]

Just a bit of advance warning... November 19 I shall be unable to join the session due to a Frisbee tournament.

Dimension Door... nice escape route... very useful in case someone decides to start smashing on me.

[Violist]

What time tomorrow? 1000 PST?

[douglas]

Violist said:
What time tomorrow? 1000 PST?


That's the usual, and no one's said anything to change it.

[Jack Simth]

Would appear so.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And then an eight to ten-hour session...

Personally, I'm finding it a little long.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Don't think I could make ten o'clock now, anyway. Sorry.

[NullAshton]

Eh, lets skip it today. Tired...

As for the long gaming sessions, not my fault you people talk for an hour on a tiny detail.

[Jack Simth]

Well, Server up and running.

I suppose if only Kaylin shows up, I could run the Archmage thing as a solo; planning to have a bit of a duel in there anyway.....

[NullAshton]

If I was correct, Kaylin WASN'T going to show up. Frisbee tourny?

[Violist]

Oooh, a duel. *starts preparing some intense Dispel Magics*. I've got 2 more sessions that I'm pretty sure I can attend without troubles 'til the tourney. I just hope I can become physically strong enough to survive.

[NullAshton]

Current sheet, ignore the wolf in the name.

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; details in the log; one CR 15 Mummy Lord, one CR 17 Maralith, and one CR 16 Horned Devil defeated;
CR 16; 1680 xp to Elorin and Kibin (at 14th), 1350 xp each to Kaylin, Derrel, and Jason (15th)
CR 15; 1260 xp to Elorin and Kibin (at 14th), 900 xp each to Kaylin, Derrel, and Jason (15th)
Elorin made 15th after the above battles, so Kibin was the only 14th for the CR 17 fight:
1800 xp each to Elorin, Kaylin, Derrel, and Jason for the Maralith, 2520 xp to Kibin.

And Kibin - your XP total on 10/16/2005 was 99,513; 1,900 for the 10/22/2005 session, you won the Roleplay vote, so a bonus 1000 xp (just issued now); and 2520 for the Maralith, 1260 for the Mummy, and 1680 for the Horned Devil; 99513+1900+1000+2520+1260+1680=107,873 xp; the threshold for 15th is 105,000 xp, so congrats - you just made 15th... and you really need to keep track of your own XP.

Oh, and who roleplayed best today? Note that you can't vote for yourself.

Log attached.

[Violist]

Hmm, working on the charsheet... what bonus does the Monk's Belt go in? +1 to AC plus Wis modifier, just can't find which slot is appropriate.

For roleplaying, I cast my vote to Derrel, although I'm still not totally sure whan encompasses a good roleplayer.

Other than that, character sheet (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Kaylin.html) will be updated at the usual place soonishly.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Hmm, working on the charsheet... what bonus does the Monk's Belt go in? +1 to AC plus Wis modifier, just can't find which slot is appropriate.


It's a Monk's bonus - it's unnamed, and applies to touch AC; "misc" is probably most appropriet, although Deflection works as well
Violist said:

For roleplaying, I cast my vote to Derrel, although I'm still not totally sure whan encompasses a good roleplayer.


It's not readily defineable in a measureable manner; it's usually pretty easy to tell when someone is more of a rollplayer than a roleplayer, but the specific qualities of a roleplayer aren't very well subject to quantification. One reason for the vote mechanic.
So we have:
Derrel: 1, everyone else, 0

[Violist]

Whoa, just realised I didn't give Kaylin the bonus to a stat available at 4th level when creating her... is that something Limited Wish could take care of? Int should be at 27, still +8 modifier... Ahh, you know a game is good when you're constantly forgetting all the intricacies. Well, either it's good or you're brain-dead, and I don't think I've been brain-dead for several days, but if I had, would I notice? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[douglas]

For something like that that's actually forgetting a rule rather than making a valid choice that you later regret, just correct it as soon as you notice. By my calculations, however, you spent it already. Your non-intelligence stats:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Stat value base cost
Str 8 10 2
Dex 14 14 6
Con 12 12 4
Wis 14 14 6
Cha 14 14 6</pre><hr />
With 32 point buy, that leaves 8 points for intelligence, enough for a base score of 15. Your gray elf bonus brings it to 17, stat bumps at 4th, 8th, and 12th level make it 20, and your newly upgraded headband brings the total to 26.

[NullAshton]

Jack, you messed up on the AC again, some of the attacks I made would have hit. Flanking removes all bonus to AC, and makes it easier to hit, so it would be flat-footed AC minus 2. And Elorin figured that out...

Woo! Level 14 rogue! Or maybe I should finnally multiclass into something now...

[Jack Simth]

NullAshton said:
Jack, you messed up on the AC again, some of the attacks I made would have hit. Flanking removes all bonus to AC, and makes it easier to hit, so it would be flat-footed AC minus 2. And Elorin figured that out...

I've never claimed to be a perfect DM; occasionally, I get confused - sometimes, this means something misses that should have hit, or something hits that should have missed, or a Gaze attack that everyone officially needs to save from once per round is only rolled a single time, or a golem that's immune to magic which permits SR gets hurt by a magical trap casting a spell that permits SR over &amp; over. Usually, I realize the mistakes sometime after the fact, and quietly ignore them.

At no point, has one of my mistakes resulted in an extra Player Character death than there would have otherwise been.

[NullAshton]

Do I get anything special with the 15th hitdie?

[Jack Simth]

Character Level 15 is a multiple of 3, so you get a character level feat; any of the non-epic Monster feats in the SRD that you qualify for are available (as you have dragon HD)

Other than that, just the skills, hit points, and any class special abilities for the class level you grab.

[douglas]

NullAshton said:
Jack, you messed up on the AC again, some of the attacks I made would have hit. Flanking removes all bonus to AC, and makes it easier to hit, so it would be flat-footed AC minus 2. And Elorin figured that out...

Woo! Level 14 rogue! Or maybe I should finnally multiclass into something now...


Flanking (http://d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#flanking) does not remove any bonuses to AC, it just gives a +2 bonus to hit the flanked enemy. Flanking allows sneak attacks not because it denies the enemy's dex bonus to AC, but because it is specifically listed as a separate condition that allows sneak attacks. The attack that should have hit was one where you rolled a 27 (not including the flanking bonus), with the Maralith's AC being 29.

Why not take another dragon hit die? d12 HP, +1 BAB, +1 to all saves, almost as many skill points as a rogue. Keep it up long enough, and you might eventually get to increase your age category.

[Violist]

Actually, on the point buy thing, I think you counted the -2 to strength as costing 2 points, when I think it should be giving me two points. Not totally sure, I'll have to get home ot actually check it though.

[douglas]

If you have an 8 after racial adjustment with no other modifiers, then you paid for a 10. If you spent no points on strength, then you would have 8 (base) -2 (racial) = 6 strength.

[Violist]

My mistake, you're right... I think a real-life trait of mine must be Forgetfulness or something, possibly a low wisdom modifier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Jack Simth]

Oh, I have that problem myself at times....

[Violist]

So, right now, I'm kind of wary in case the GM tries to have something steal my spellbook... so I was thinking, put Symbols on it. Would a trigger condition along the lines of "Detonate whenever someone not of the party and not observably accepted by caster tries to touch &lt;object&gt;" work?

Hmmm... with a bit of XP and some time I could booby-trap every piece of kit around... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[NullAshton]

Or with Jason.

[Alneyan]

Jack Simth said:
Well, I was actually hoping Alneyan would show up at yesterday's session, but that obviously didn't happen; the plan would have been for him to show up at the recruiting station at the same time as the party; ah well.



Sorry, I didn't reply back on that until now. I suppose you weren't holding your breath for my coming unannounced without a character sheet, but still, I ought to clear that up.

My interest in getting back into D&amp;D seems to have been very periodic, somewhere in the middle of a mood swing; now, it doesn't strike my fancy at all (well, not much strike my fancy to begin with, but still). So, no more glowering from me.

[Jack Simth]

Alneyan said:
Sorry, I didn't reply back on that until now. I suppose you weren't holding your breath for my coming unannounced without a character sheet, but still, I ought to clear that up.


Actually, I could fairly easily use an NPC generator to build a quick character, and even (in the case of the random character generator) make the link such that it will always come up with the same character sheet - Asa (http://www.aarg.net/~minam/npc2.cgi?look=standard&amp;stats_ability_bonuses=0&amp;sta ts_ac_breakdown=1&amp;stats_init_breakdown=1&amp;stats_att ack_breakdown=0&amp;stats_save_breakdown=0&amp;stats_skill _breakdown=0&amp;stats_languages=1&amp;stats_skillsfeats=1 &amp;stats_possessions=1&amp;stats_spells=1&amp;stats_formatti ng=1&amp;stats_skill_points=1&amp;alignment=anyg&amp;gender=an y&amp;race=anycore&amp;class=anypc&amp;level=15&amp;class2=&amp;level2 =any&amp;class3=&amp;level3=any&amp;count=1&amp;scorestrategy=1&amp;se ed=1130805327), for example. I can also run with a character sheet handed to me just then, although I'd check it for oddities at a later date.
Alneyan said:
My interest in getting back into D&amp;D seems to have been very periodic, somewhere in the middle of a mood swing; now, it doesn't strike my fancy at all (well, not much strike my fancy to begin with, but still). So, no more glowering from me.

Happens; I can adapt. Hope you find something you can stay interested in that you enjoy.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
So, right now, I'm kind of wary in case the GM tries to have something steal my spellbook... so I was thinking, put Symbols on it. Would a trigger condition along the lines of "Detonate whenever someone not of the party and not observably accepted by caster tries to touch &lt;object&gt;" work?

Hmmm... with a bit of XP and some time I could booby-trap every piece of kit around... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif


From the spell all Symbols inherit their triggering conditions:

You can also set special triggering limitations of your own. These can be as simple or elaborate as you desire. Special conditions for triggering a symbol of death can be based on a creature’s name, identity, or alignment, but otherwise must be based on observable actions or qualities. Intangibles such as level, class, Hit Dice, and hit points don’t qualify.

When scribing a symbol of death, you can specify a password or phrase that prevents a creature using it from triggering the effect. Anyone using the password remains immune to that particular rune’s effects so long as the creature remains within 60 feet of the rune. If the creature leaves the radius and returns later, it must use the password again.

You also can attune any number of creatures to the symbol of death, but doing this can extend the casting time. Attuning one or two creatures takes negligible time, and attuning a small group (as many as ten creatures) extends the casting time to 1 hour. Attuning a large group (as many as twenty-five creatures) takes 24 hours. Attuning larger groups takes proportionately longer. Any creature attuned to a symbol of death cannot trigger it and is immune to its effects, even if within its radius when triggered. You are automatically considered attuned to your own symbols of death, and thus always ignore the effects and cannot inadvertently trigger them.



So you could set up a Touch trigger, attuned to yourself and everyone currently in the party, and add a password for anyone you hand it to. You could even skip the password, and have it not trigger for anyone you specifically hand it to, and attune it to a specific list of individuals. I'd want the exact trigger-condition phrasing a bit in advance, though, so I can adjucate it, and warn you if some particular funciton isn't on the list of possibles.

[Violist]

Jack Simth said:
So you could set up a Touch trigger, attuned to yourself and everyone currently in the party, and add a password for anyone you hand it to. You could even skip the password, and have it not trigger for anyone you specifically hand it to, and attune it to a specific list of individuals. I'd want the exact trigger-condition phrasing a bit in advance, though, so I can adjucate it, and warn you if some particular funciton isn't on the list of possibles.



Would this trigger condition work?


If the object upon which the symbol is placed is touched, check to see if toucher is specifically sanctioned by the caster, either through means of a password or by the caster's willing presence. If toucher is not sanctioned, the spell is triggered. Otherwise, remain untriggered.



Hmm, hard to phrase those...

[NullAshton]

So all they have to do is knock you unconscious and put you near the symbol? Wow, that was easy. The symbol wouldn't even know the difference between willing and unconscious.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Well, that's the thing about traps - The're remarkably simple-minded...
/Narf On
...Why, just the other day, I was having a conversation with one and all it could say was 'Smash. Smash. Smash'...
/Narf Off

[Violist]

Even my cat can tell the difference between someone wanting to be somewhere and not, and by D&amp;D mechanics, she'd have the intellect of a trap (or thereabouts). It's not really very hard to tell, and generally, if someone is unconcious, it's either very special circumstances (tooth removal, etc) or they don't want to be there.

[NullAshton]

The trap could also not know. Is it sanctioned? I dunno, I'm just not going to activate.

See, everything gets funky with stuff that takes you literaly...

[douglas]

Hmm, let's see... You're sleeping/meditating for the night, and thus are present willingly. The thief sneaks in without waking you up, picks up the book without triggering the Symbol (because you are present willingly, if not awake), and sneaks off.

/me thinks this condition is a little flawed.

[Violist]

hmm. I'd work on that some more but right now my brain is about as active as a jug of week-old warm milk...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...Full of colourfull activity?

[Violist]

You get colour in those? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Nah, I was actually thinking it's just partially solid and overgrown with god only knows what...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Week-old warm milk? I presume so.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:

Jack Simth said:
So you could set up a Touch trigger, attuned to yourself and everyone currently in the party, and add a password for anyone you hand it to. You could even skip the password, and have it not trigger for anyone you specifically hand it to, and attune it to a specific list of individuals. I'd want the exact trigger-condition phrasing a bit in advance, though, so I can adjucate it, and warn you if some particular funciton isn't on the list of possibles.


Would this trigger condition work?

If the object upon which the symbol is placed is touched, check to see if toucher is specifically sanctioned by the caster, either through means of a password or by the caster's willing presence. If toucher is not sanctioned, the spell is triggered. Otherwise, remain untriggered.



Hmm, hard to phrase those...


can be based on a creature’s name, identity, or alignment, but otherwise must be based on observable actions or qualities



Violist said:
Even my cat can tell the difference between someone wanting to be somewhere and not, and by D&amp;D mechanics, she'd have the intellect of a trap (or thereabouts). It's not really very hard to tell, and generally, if someone is unconcious, it's either very special circumstances (tooth removal, etc) or they don't want to be there.


Ah, but a cat is Int 2; I think of spells more like computer programs (Int -, like most constructs). Willing is actually a very high-level concept, by definition existing in the mind of the person the person in question - which isn't observable (however, straining muscles are, as is rapid back-and-forth movement, a pinning condition, open eyes, wounds, et cetera; but the spell can't just assume that's the kind of thing you are looking for....). That clause is not valid for the spell. Replacing "Sanctioned" with "attuned" (definined in the spell - declared at casting) is valid, but the Symbol doesn't magically know who you have sanctioned or not, with another definition of the word.

Also, I'll want a specific list of those for whom you are attuning it when you cast the spell.

[Violist]

Guess we'll leave it at password... hmmph, I can't make my spells have magical knowledge? *grumble*

For attuning, how about the current party? Derrel, Elorin, Kibby, Jason.

Let's see...

if(identity == 'Derrel' || identity == 'Elorin' || identity == 'Kibin' || identity == 'Jason')
trigger = 0;
else if(presencePermittedBy('Kaylin') == 1)
trigger = 0;
else
trigger = 1;

Harrumph.

[Jack Simth]

presencePermittedBy(X) has the same issue as "willing presence" and for the same reason... unless, of course, you want it to read "anyone in your presence" (after all - Kaylin is a powerful sparkcaster - anyone she doesn't want in her presence is soon gone... if she knows about them.... and knows who they actually are....)

[Violist]

I'd interpret "Presence Permitted" as somewhat different than "Willing" since, as was pointed out earlier, "willing" could mean that Kaylin isn't necessarily concious, just willing to be in the area, while "presence permitted" would - to me - imply a concious decision to permit someone's presence. Of course, that gets back to the problem of how does the trap know...

I suppose it's highly unlikely that Kaylin will ever try to get someone to fetch her spellbook for her, outside of the party, so I suppose the trigger condition "Detonate on object touch" would work once the rest of the party is attuned.

[douglas]

About Kibin's hit points, I did a little more searching for the clause about constitution changes due to polymorph not changing HP that I thought I remembered, and here's what I found:

Kaylin's Great Warping is based on Shapechange IIRC
Shapechange is "like polymorph, except..."
Polymorph is "like alter self, except..."
Alter Self says "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."
The only mention of hit points in the exceptions noted in Polymorph and Shapechange is the target of Polymorph healing as if having rested for one night.

I'm not entirely sure which way this is supposed to be interpreted. Polymorph makes no mention at all about hit points changing due to changing constitution, either to say that it does or that it doesn't. A strict reading would say that max hit points stay the same because no exception to that provision is noted, but it could easily just be a minor oversight on the part of whoever wrote the Polymorph spell description. On the other hand, it could be a balancing factor to avoid people polymorphing into something with insanely high constitution just to gain HP. I have checked both errata and the D&amp;D FAQ on wizards.com, and neither of them mentions the issue.

[Violist]

Sigh, my Saturdays are filling up... What time are we planning on starting? I've got a Frisbee practice from 9 AM 'til probably 11 AM, and then this week I'm supposed to have a viola sectional for symphony, despite my protests. Oh well... I'm not sure exactly what time it is, but it'll be about 2 hours away.

NPC me while I'm gone please, charsheet is up (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/Kaylin.html) at the usual spot.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
About Kibin's hit points, I did a little more searching for the clause about constitution changes due to polymorph not changing HP that I thought I remembered, and here's what I found:

Kaylin's Great Warping is based on Shapechange IIRC
Shapechange is "like polymorph, except..."
Polymorph is "like alter self, except..."
Alter Self says "Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."
The only mention of hit points in the exceptions noted in Polymorph and Shapechange is the target of Polymorph healing as if having rested for one night.

I'm not entirely sure which way this is supposed to be interpreted. Polymorph makes no mention at all about hit points changing due to changing constitution, either to say that it does or that it doesn't. A strict reading would say that max hit points stay the same because no exception to that provision is noted, but it could easily just be a minor oversight on the part of whoever wrote the Polymorph spell description. On the other hand, it could be a balancing factor to avoid people polymorphing into something with insanely high constitution just to gain HP. I have checked both errata and the D&amp;D FAQ on wizards.com, and neither of them mentions the issue.



Well, my reading is based primarily on

Augmented Subtype: A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.



The assorted type descriptions always put the Hit Dice under Features (and thus those 13 d8 Rogue hit dice don't become d12 Dragon hit dice), but the spells specifically change your base stats - so your Con changes, but your rolls don't; the bonus (or penalty) to your HP from the change in con from a Polymorph effect doesn't require you re-roll your HP (thus, HP unchanged), but it does alter your Con bonus HP (thus, total HP altered), but this alteration acts in the same way an Amulet of Health adds to your HP, or Con damage subtracts (although the Con alteration is untyped - sets your base to the listing, but other effects, such as magic or ability damage, can change it later).

Violist - that's Pacific Standard, right? 5:03 PM as I edit this post.

[Violist]

Yep, PST.

[douglas]

I'm not sure why I'm thinking about this now, but I'm mildly curious about what would have happened if Kaylin had rolled a natural 1 on her mining check, which would have been a 0 after her strength penalty.

[NullAshton]

Then she would have lost 100 gold.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

200!

[Jack Simth]

Then she would have lost about 500, methinks.

And probably started blasting then and there.

Which would have worked out okay, except that she'd run through her blasting list on mooks.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

I've got a meeting at 2:00. Sorry.

(Well, at least I didn't post that at 12:00)

[Jack Simth]

Ah, so no blasting required adventures until Violist brings Kaylin in at about 11, then "normal" adventuring until about 1:30 or 2 when narf takes Derrel out of the picture, followed by a bout of no thugs needed till close? Tricky... but doesn't fit in too badly with my plans anyway....

[Violist]

The timing of that works well, my sectional is at 1:30 as well. Should be back by 3:00. And yes, a natural 1, I think she'd have just started casting at everything she saw...

[Jack Simth]

Server up and running.

Wait, Violist will be leaving at about the same time as Derrel? Well, that cuts back on the plan for the duel at that time....

[Jack Simth]

Server closed; one very unlucky CR 17 Frost Giant slain, 1800 xp each, assuming everyone's 15th at the moment; one battle wherein our Wizardess got stoned, and the stoner got away clean; one Wizardess now a lowest-ranking member of the Archmage's guild (after getting de-stoned, that is) and some spells traded. Log attached.

Also, Kaylin survivied a loss with a CR 15 opponent by her lonesome, and gets 1/4 the xp for having defeated her - 1,125 bonus XP, just for Kaylin. (Help offset the Disjunction a little....)

Also, a high-ranking Archmage got mildly annoyed with Kibin.....

Derrel got the most votes (1) for best roleplaying from last session, and gets a 1000 bonus XP.

So, who roleplayed best this time round?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yaay!

[Violist]

Aargh, I didn't want to lose. Oh well, that gave me some good tips... and she didn't exactly get away clean, I mean... how many more hits would it have taken from the Bralani to take her out? Probably should have just used Feeblemind on her and taken the risk.

So, stuff I'm paying to copy from spellbooks, in no particular order:

-Permanency (250 GP)
-Fire Shield (200 GP)
-Bestow Curse (200 GP)
-Geas (300 GP)
-Antimagic Field (300 GP)
-Freezing Sphere (300 GP)
-Mislead (300 GP)
-Hold Person (150 GP) Hah, you're not the only one who can paralyse, Kibin....
-Project Image (350 GP)
-Screen (400 GP)
-Alarm (50 GP)

That should have a total cost of 2800 GP, if I didn't press some wrong buttons on the calculator. God, I love this place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Let's see, back to creating Elemental Blast. If I remember right, that's 5 weeks, 5,000 GP, and a Spellcraft check with a DC I couldn't possibly fail?

If it's OK to do stuff off-stage (i.e. here), I'll go and inscribe those spells, and also try the Permanency thing again, Permanent See Invisibility on myself, Permanent Alarm on the bag, Permanent Alarm on my spellbook.

Amazing, it looks like Alarm is actually useful for protecting my spellbook and bag, as long as I sleep with them.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Aargh, I didn't want to lose.

I didn't actually mean for you to lose - just to rattle you a bit... make it tough and memorable... ah well, no harm, no foul, right?
Violist said:
Oh well, that gave me some good tips... and she didn't exactly get away clean, I mean... how many more hits would it have taken from the Bralani to take her out? Probably should have just used Feeblemind on her and taken the risk.


She was down to 7 HP when you failed your save, with 5 spell levels left on her Spell Turning; basically, there was a pretty good chance the next full attack from the critter would have taken her into the negatives, as would a resisted area effect damage spell. Feeblemind, as a 5th level spell, would have been totally reflected; which, you know, would have kinda hurt... of course, you lost, having cast about half again as many spells as the person you lost to, who did not have access to as high of a level of spells (Sor/15 gets 7th level spells; Wiz/15 gets 8th). Yes, this was intended as a little bit of a learning experience. Next up: The Problem With Spell Dumping! (but that's for later, when you aren't expecting it.....)
Violist said:

So, stuff I'm paying to copy from spellbooks, in no particular order:

-Permanency (250 GP)
-Fire Shield (200 GP)
-Bestow Curse (200 GP)
-Geas (300 GP)
-Antimagic Field (300 GP)
-Freezing Sphere (300 GP)
-Mislead (300 GP)
-Hold Person (150 GP) Hah, you're not the only one who can paralyse, Kibin....
-Project Image (350 GP)
-Screen (400 GP)
-Alarm (50 GP)

That should have a total cost of 2800 GP, if I didn't press some wrong buttons on the calculator. God, I love this place http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Matches my math.
Violist said:

Let's see, back to creating Elemental Blast. If I remember right, that's 5 weeks, 5,000 GP, and a Spellcraft check with a DC I couldn't possibly fail?


Yep. Crafting portal for free, too.... but only at the tower.
Violist said:

If it's OK to do stuff off-stage (i.e. here), I'll go and inscribe those spells, and also try the Permanency thing again, Permanent See Invisibility on myself, Permanent Alarm on the bag, Permanent Alarm on my spellbook.


Enjoy casting away; remember to dock the XP off your sheet.
Violist said:

Amazing, it looks like Alarm is actually useful for protecting my spellbook and bag, as long as I sleep with them.

Yes; always nice to be alerted every time someone touches your spellbook, and you happen to be either a) in earshot, or b) within one mile of it. Mind you, you still don't seem to be trying for redundant copies....

[Violist]

Roar, quite a bit tougher fight than I thought. Still, no big deal, as fortunately I'm not the only one able to reverse petrification. She had 5 levels left in turning? Hmm, that's odd. Oh well... Nice that she didn't kill me outright.

Made a note of the XP cost, now I'm just faced with the daunting task of updating the charsheet. Come to think of it, I should probably re-organise the openRPG spell list so that it's actually in order of spell level, rather than when I added it... it's getting hard to find stuff.

Redundant copies were actually my next plan of ensuring spell preparationness. Would these Archmages be able to keep a copy secure? I'm sure they're used to that sort of thing.

Edit: Am I the only one who votes on the Roleplaying thing? I can't decide this time, so someone else will have to cast the deciding vote.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Roar, quite a bit tougher fight than I thought.

Considering that a Sorceror who qualifies for Archmage is 14th at barest minimum (requires 7th level spells), you knew your opponenet would have time to prepare (just as you did), and that half the hints on optimizing your character came from the one making the opposition, you thought it would be easy?

Granted, I didn't optimize her much - re-rolled random Sorcerors with a nifty online utility until I got something that had 7th level spells available, then tweaked the spell list and feats list until she qualified, and made certain she had two specific spells after that (Spell Turning and Protection from Energy), and she never did take advantage of Empower.....
Violist said:
Still, no big deal, as fortunately I'm not the only one able to reverse petrification. She had 5 levels left in turning? Hmm, that's odd. Oh well... Nice that she didn't kill me outright.


Rolled a 3 on the d4, and ended up with 9 levels; the only spell that hit her was your Quickened Enervation, which was a 4th level spell taking up an 8th level slot. Odd choice for an opening move, though; I was actually expecting something in a flavor of Save-Or-Die.....
Violist said:

Made a note of the XP cost, now I'm just faced with the daunting task of updating the charsheet. Come to think of it, I should probably re-organise the openRPG spell list so that it's actually in order of spell level, rather than when I added it... it's getting hard to find stuff.


That happens, yes.... you might also consider making a "master" copy that has all your spells in it, and "standard lists" that have your normal preparation schemes all statted in.
Violist said:

Redundant copies were actually my next plan of ensuring spell preparationness. Would these Archmages be able to keep a copy secure? I'm sure they're used to that sort of thing.


Hmm... interesting question. But tell me - if you lose your spellbook, how are you planning to get back to the Archmage's Tower in sufficiently short order? A suggestion might be to put an Instant Summons on a second Blessed Book, which you then bury somewhere.... although it's another 1000 gp saphire burned each time you recall it to update it....
Violist said:
Edit: Am I the only one who votes on the Roleplaying thing? I can't decide this time, so someone else will have to cast the deciding vote.

It would appear so... although I do get to cast the deciding vote when it comes to a tie.....

[Violist]

I didn't think it'd be easy, I just didn't expect it to be quite that hard. I used Enervation since I figured she'd have good saves, and there's little point to a save-or-die spell if they make their saves all the time.

Getting beaten by a nearly-random sorceror... I'd better work on my spell comprehension a bit.

I figure I'll probably be pretty familiar with the Archmage's tower in a few days, so as long as I make sure I've got a Teleport spell prepared (maybe a scroll handy just as a backup, leave it with someone else?), I could get back there pretty quickly.

Mmmm, +1125 XP for GM being nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

Woo, finally got the spell list updated, sorted out, alphabetised... now I can actually find spells! Wow. And I'm using 339/1000 pages in the spellbook.

Since there's an opportunity for more shopping...
-Dimension Door (200 GP)
-Spectral Hand (100 GP)
-Ray of Exhaustion (150 GP)
-Vampiric Touch (150 GP)
-Touch of Idiocy (100 GP)
-Mass Bear's Endurance (300 GP)
-Mass Cat's Grace (300 GP)
-Mass Owl's Wisdom (300 GP)
-Symbol of Insanity (400 GP)
-Symbol of Stunning (350 GP)

Bringing the total spent on spells to 5150 GP and the total number of spell levels to 386. Ahh, cheap spells. Probably not going to get another opportunity like this for a while.

[NullAshton]

I vote for Violist. She needs a little extra XP to offset disjunction.

And Violist, you may can paralyze, but you can't paralyze me.

[Violist]

Bleh, you shouldn't give a roleplaying award based on who needs spare XP... not that I'm complaining too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

That's a good point, I can't get you with Hold Person, and, while the getting is cheap, I think I'll pick up:
-Hold Monster (250 GP)
-Mass Hold Person (350 GP)

[NullAshton]

Technically, you couldn't hold me as a wolf either with Hold Person. Wrong type.

[Violist]

/me casts Mind Fog
/me casts Hold Monster

Enjoy... but really, you ought to be hunting down those blackrobes, before they pull some other amusing stunt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[NullAshton]

No. I mean, you cannot paralyze me. I don't even have to save against Hold Monster, it will not work on me.

[douglas]

He's right, you know. "All dragons have immunity to sleep and paralysis effects."

Save yourself 25 gp and get Alarm as a scroll - for first level spells only, it's cheaper that way (assuming no material component or xp costs).

My vote goes to Kaylin, too.

[Violist]

Oops, just read that bit about dragons. Hmmm... well, resilient sphere still sounds good... that old guy is kinda cool.

Thanks for the votes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[NullAshton]

Aw, comeon, try and paralyze me. I want to see what happens. Resilient sphere is level 9, by the way...

[NullAshton]

Kaylin also did good in the duel. So that's another reason for my vote.

[Violist]

Hmm, got kicked around by someone casting a lot less... Oh well, though it sounds rather ... immodest, I guess, I was quite satisfied with the handling of after-duel events.

Edit: we may not be looking at the same Resilient Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/resilientSphere.htm)... this one seems to be level 4.

Just a crazy idea I had... what if we used Scrying to find the Sorceror, and then tried to teleport there? With a Quickened Dimensional Anchor, there could be a chance of trapping him, unless I'm misreading the spell descriptions. Mostly it'd depend on how well I know him, so I was curious as to his Will save modifier.

[NullAshton]

And I get entitled to a reflex save. Hehe.

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Just a crazy idea I had... what if we used Scrying to find the Sorceror, and then tried to teleport there? With a Quickened Dimensional Anchor, there could be a chance of trapping him, unless I'm misreading the spell descriptions. Mostly it'd depend on how well I know him, so I was curious as to his Will save modifier.

Let's see... I don't think Kaylin has actually seen him in person... but Jason, Kibin, and Derrel have... you could probably scrounge up a few things that were once his.... maybe get Derrel to paint a picture....

[Violist]

Hmm, so that wouldn't be forbidden by the Plot God? Cool... might be the only way we can get close, if he's not planning to teleport to us anymore.

Let's see, borrow Elorin's Ioun stone, use a quick Limited Wish-PsychicWhatsit to change Spell Focus to Divination, cast Fox's Cunning, use Greater Scrying... Will save DC 29, running at a -1 to his save all told... hopefully he doesn't have great Will saves.

[NullAshton]

You use limited wish WAY too much.

[Violist]

Yeah, but now I've picked up an actual copy of Permanency I won't need to use it nearly as much. Besides, where's the fun in vast cosmic power if you don't use it? Speaking of which... I'll pick up Control Weather just because it's cool, and not because I want to call up disasters upon innocent cities, no really, I don't... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[NullAshton]

Yay! You can make clouds for me to sit on!

[douglas]

The discussion about summoning angels to do healing/resurrecting for the Archmages got me thinking about this: What would the Baron of the Adamine have done if someone had pointed out that, while the Wish once a month he was getting from the demon was pretty good, Solars (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) get Wish once per day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

D&amp;D's universe is insane.

And I'd just repeat myself on that subject.

[Jack Simth]

douglas said:
The discussion about summoning angels to do healing/resurrecting for the Archmages got me thinking about this: What would the Baron of the Adamine have done if someone had pointed out that, while the Wish once a month he was getting from the demon was pretty good, Solars (http://d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelSolar) get Wish once per day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Well, for one, no Solar worth the name (and most of them are....) would cooperate with him....

And for another, the lowly Efreeti (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm#efreeti) (also the Noble of the Djinni (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/genie.htm#djinni)) get three per day ... that they can't use themselves (the Solar, however, has no such limitation, and may very well want to save it for something other than willing payment.... like just deserts).

[Violist]

NullAshton said:
Yay! You can make clouds for me to sit on!



If you're good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jack Simth]

Violist said:
Hmm, so that wouldn't be forbidden by the Plot God? Cool... might be the only way we can get close, if he's not planning to teleport to us anymore.

Let's see, borrow Elorin's Ioun stone, use a quick Limited Wish-PsychicWhatsit to change Spell Focus to Divination, cast Fox's Cunning, use Greater Scrying... Will save DC 29, running at a -1 to his save all told... hopefully he doesn't have great Will saves.


1) Fox's Cunning doesn't stack with the Headband of Intellect you normally wear.
2) How many primary spellcasters DON'T have, at a minimum, Good will saves?
3) How far back in the archives have you read? This particular Sorceror has been in the plot for a while....

But I will let the mechanics play out.

[Violist]

1) I just realised, 2) could be overcome with multiple attempts, and 3) we have archives?

[Jack Simth]

When I DM, I almost always post the log; those logs I didn't post, Narf placed on his website (see his signiture). Between the two of us, we have every log for each of the sessions, from the beginning, posted somewhere.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Almost; There's a few still on the drive. Not sure which; would have to sort.

[Violist]

Awesome. *starts reading*

[Jack Simth]

Oh.... and remember not to let OOC information influence your character's decisions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Violist]

Aww, you're evil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Incidentally, what is "spell dumping"? Been reading over the logs of last session... "books are fun"... hehehe... *goes back to textbooks*

[Jack Simth]

Spell Dumping (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=145) is basically running through a very large chunk of your spells prepared on one encounter - for the duel, it was appropriet; other times, it leaves the character without blasting power if something else comes along....

[Violist]

Hmm. Probably already has that knowledge in-character...

I really should look into swinging a big stick for a career, it sounds so much easier than casting.

[Jack Simth]

That piece she knows, yes, but there's a few notes in the archives that she doesn't know in character.

And swinging a big stick is only sort-of easier; the hard choices are made at level increases, rather than at a session level; a Sorceror-type is in a similar boat. It's only the prepared casters that have to worry for the entire session "Hmm... how many encounters today.... should I use the Haste now, or save it for later? What about the Chain lightning? The Empowered Fireball?" A fighter doesn't run out of sword swings, a rogue doesn't run out of sneak attack. A spontaneous caster can just Hasten again later, or Empower the Fireball on the spot. However, with more limited options overall, the spontaneous caster must choose much more carefully at level-up than does the prepared caster.

[Violist]

Another practice tomorrow morn, I'll try to arrive by 11 AM. The node (updated with all the spell acquisitions and various items changing hands) is here (http://oregonstate.edu/~leungau/kaylin_node.xml).

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...I just realised we've beetween the bar.

And woot! 100 pages.

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
...I just realised we've beetween the bar.

And woot! 100 pages.



Umm.... Parse error?

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Ah. I blame that one on eating: Two pancakes, some yogurt, several slices of pizza, eggnog and several tarts. Something in that combination has given me incredible gas and an upset stomach.

I meant 'beaten'. In the number of posts. Also, I am unsure when I'll show up, as I have come close to being 'suddenly hungry' a few times tonight, if you take my meaning.

[Jack Simth]

Server online.

Today's Random: [100d100] -&gt; [55, 39, 27, 57, 80, 12, 59, 85, 79, 53, 33, 53, 81, 100, 14, 67, 19, 28, 81, 84, 11, 63, 94, 60, 31, 63, 57, 49, 78, 87, 100, 99, 55, 40, 23, 86, 56, 4, 35, 68, 7, 51, 9, 46, 99, 24, 78, 16, 21, 97, 58, 57, 23, 5, 43, 88, 70, 18, 30, 19, 73, 79, 48, 30, 38, 61, 69, 31, 54, 49, 29, 8, 58, 9, 33, 79, 91, 76, 60, 87, 27, 12, 60, 82, 7, 2, 93, 40, 31, 69, 94, 27, 2, 99, 98, 84, 52, 23, 87, 53] = (5228)

[Violist]

Narf, you should take better care of yourself. Yoghurt and eggnog don't go together http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[NullAshton]

Dang it. I wanted to have some more fun with the treasure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Jack Simth]

Server closed.

Let's see.... CR 10 Energy Drain trap eventually killed; 1 CR 12 Ghost problem taken care of; one CR 17 Sorceror killed; four CR 7 Huge Elementals made to run away;

150 xp each for the trap, 1800 xp each for the Sorceror and Elementals, 375 each to Kibin, Derrel, Elorin, and Kaylin for taking care of the Ghost problem; Kaylin won the vote with 2 in her favor, and gets a bonus 1500 xp.

So, all told, 1950 xp for Jason, 2325 xp each to Kibin, Derrel, and Elorin, and 3825 xp for Kaylin.

Log Attached....

Oh, and before I forget... one Successful Disintigrate cast. Pity it was by our opponent. One dusted Wizardess, who's fate needs to be decided.

Edit: Also, who roleplayed best today?

[NullAshton]

True ressurection!

[Violist]

First time I've seen a successful disintegrate and it has to hit me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

True Resurrection please, or if that's too much trouble (i.e. can't get there, whatever), regular Resurrection is fine. Either way I'll foot the bill.

Edit: Holy flying cow of munchkinism, that's a lot of treasure. Y'know, I was considering Spell Turning, but I figured he'd be busy with the ritual thing... forgot the possibility that certain evil people might have given him Silent Spell - though I still think that should have required a concentration check to process chanting and casting. Ah well, what's done is done.

[douglas]

Either way, we have the material component on hand specifically designated for the purpose for whichever party member happens to need it. Assuming we can find a 17th level cleric to cast the spell, standard price for True Resurrection would be 9*17*10 = 1530 gp, but that would bring our diamond reserves down to a single 5000 gp gem.

A simple Resurrection could be performed immediately by Elorin using just two of the 6 diamonds, but you'd go back down to 14th level with 7000 xp to go for 15th. Assuming Jack lets you count this session's xp after that rather than throwing it away in the level loss, you'd have only 3175 xp left to level up back to 15th (and you wouldn't have to retake it as a wizard level, you qualify for Archmage now).

BTW, next time we know ahead of time that we're going up against a major spellcaster, you might want to cast Spell Turning.

[Jack Simth]

Add the XP when it best suits you - which means AFTER level loss.

And yes - the generation tables for art and gems produce lots of them for high-level encounters.

Edit: And all DM's are evil. It's in the job description. Besides; if I'd made him spell-less, it would have been too easy by a long shot. As it was, he got a single spell off before being offed himself. It just happened to be an effective single spell.