Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"? [Archive] - Page 10

geoschmo

February 2nd, 2004, 01:25 PM

You could mod out black holes, although I am not sure that's going to help much. I think those systmes are basically neutral. Some times they will actually help a player in a weaker position to defend his space.

However, one thing that makes maps uneven is when one player gets several habitable systems close to his home, and the other players is surounded by dead ones. So from that respect it's probably helpful to remove them.

You could design a modified quadrant that has only Standard type systems. You could also make it a little heavier on the warp points then a normal stock map, to make it harder to grab the choke points and bottle up a player.

As a matter of fact, their may be a map type like this in the FQM mod.

What you can't do is prevent the clunky way the game sometimes places empires, putting one guy in the middle and one in a corner, or two empires next door to each other. That's a code issue. As Slynky says he's working on it for the next patch.

[ February 02, 2004, 11:26: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 2nd, 2004, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:
Thanks for the advice Primitive,

So the starting info now looks like this..

Narf vs AvatarMan:

Se4:Gold Unmodded v1.84
Quadrant type: KotH Standard
Quadrant size: KotH Standard
Event frequency: None/low
Technology cost: Medium, allowed (default)
Starting resources: Medium
Planet value: Good
Number of planets: 1
Racial Points: Medium (3000)

Game Conditions: Ancient Race NOT allowed.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. Or if you prefer to try the 'tesco' preset map, I'm ok with that too. (It's all new to us either way right?) sounds good, but i would also add, event severity low.

might have more to say once my brain has booted.

Asmala

February 2nd, 2004, 08:55 PM

Thanks for comments. The player placement isn't a big problem since I can set the starting positions manually. But if a player has a huge breathable or even more in his homesystem and the other player has nebulas around his homesystem, the result of the game is quite predictable.

FQM maps might be good for Koth games. There is so many planets that the luck plays a lesser role. One thing I don't like in FQM maps is the vast amount of asteroids. It's pretty easy to build a planet creator and after that normal planets are almost worthless because asteroids have resource values of 200%-300%. Of course I could mod the FQM and remove those asteroids.

Too bad there is too many colony/atmosphere combinations that you can't make systems almost equal to all players...Just get an idea: Perhaps the map could be balanced for two planet types. I mean that for example every system has equal amount of facility space for rock/oxygen and gas giant/methane players. I have never made a mod so I don't know whether this is possible.

Comments? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

geoschmo

February 2nd, 2004, 09:27 PM

I made a quadrant type/system type combo that attempted to balance the available facility spots for every atmosphere/planet type. Basically it comes down to not too complicated algebraic formula and finding the least common denominator.

It is possible to have completely balanced systems, however, what I found was that you ended up with a gawd-aweful large number of planets in every system. IIRC like 40 or so, but I'll have ot dig it out to be sure. As a compromise what I did was have like 5 different system types, all with a equal chance of being used in the quadrant. Assuming an equal spread of the system types being used, you would have an equal number of facility spots quadrant wide. But because of random placement you would have a little bit of a range of values for any specific starting system. And the systems had a more reasonable numebr of planets.

What you could do pretty easily is limit the players to a few different atmosphere/planet types. You could then have completely balanced systems with a reasonable number of planets per system.

I'll dig out my files and post them in the next day or so. Actually Fyron might have put a modified form of it in the FQM deluxe mod, but again I can't remember for sure.
We talked about it, bu i don't remember if he decided to or not.

Geoschmo

Renegade 13

February 2nd, 2004, 10:41 PM

Could someone please tell me how I can join the KOTH league? Any help would be appreciated.

tesco samoa

February 2nd, 2004, 10:45 PM

right here... then the game will be set up on pbw... you can also click on geo's or asmala's sig for a link to the site http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Renegade 13

February 3rd, 2004, 12:06 AM

Ok, thanks for the info http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Asmala

February 3rd, 2004, 05:06 PM

Welcome Renegade 13! You get straight to action and your opponent is Dav. I've updated the Koth page but I can't create the game before PBW is up again. I assumed the nick you want to use in the Hill is Renegade 13. Is it your PBW username as well?

As Tesco said if somebody wants to join Koth a post here or an email to me is enough.

David E. Gervais

February 3rd, 2004, 10:17 PM

Narf? When are you going to upload your empire file so we can start our KotH game?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

February 3rd, 2004, 10:31 PM

probably later today. no real reason other than other things i want to do first. one of which is think about what kind of empire i want. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ February 03, 2004, 20:33: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Asmala

February 4th, 2004, 12:19 AM

Thanks for your map comments Geo, I've thought them quite a lot. Balancing a map for all colony/atmosphere combinations using 5 or so predesigned system types sounds good. If the map isn't very small you will get roughly equal amount of all system types.

Removing empty systems would help a lot to balance maps but that would eliminate some game aspects. Have to think that one.

If you find something from your files: good. Otherwise I try to create it myself.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 4th, 2004, 07:25 PM

sorry about not uploading yesterday. that's one of two things i forgot. it's up.

[ February 04, 2004, 17:28: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Renegade 13

February 5th, 2004, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Welcome Renegade 13! You get straight to action and your opponent is Dav. I've updated the Koth page but I can't create the game before PBW is up again. I assumed the nick you want to use in the Hill is Renegade 13. Is it your PBW username as well?

As Tesco said if somebody wants to join Koth a post here or an email to me is enough. Woohoo!! My first KOTH battle! And yes, my PBW username is Renegade 13 as well. Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Asmala

February 5th, 2004, 08:17 PM

We have a new player, Gravey. Welcome! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Slynky

February 5th, 2004, 08:32 PM

Ragnarok

February 5th, 2004, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
We have a new player, Gravey. Welcome! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Welcome to the hill, Gravey. Now if only Taterbill didn't already have a matchup with someone you two could square off against each other. The taters against the gravey, one fight to decide which is better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Then we already have Spoon, next will be fork, pretty soon we'll even have KitchenSink! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Edit: And an update in the game with me and Joachim. Turn date is 2401.4 and we still have not met yet. I am sure he will enjoy meeting my baseship that just left drydock though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ February 05, 2004, 18:38: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

Joachim

February 6th, 2004, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
[QUOTE] Edit: And an update in the game with me and Joachim. Turn date is 2401.4 and we still have not met yet. I am sure he will enjoy meeting my baseship that just left drydock though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Thats OK, my cloaked star destroyer is just waiting for the best time.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

gravey101

February 6th, 2004, 02:05 AM

Thanks guys....

Yes, Slynky, we played in Mediocrity.

Slynky

February 6th, 2004, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by gravey101:
Thanks guys....

Yes, Slynky, we played in Mediocrity. Yeah, was wondering if there was a Gravey and a Gravey101. (Got THAT cleared up!)

tesco samoa

February 6th, 2004, 03:16 AM

wow gravey is finally joined http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif cool...

Slynky

February 6th, 2004, 03:28 AM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
wow gravey is finally joined http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif cool... Yeah, fresh MEAT...I mean, gravey FOR our meat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

gravey101

February 6th, 2004, 04:17 AM

Yeh, not sure why I haven't joined until now...

Anyways here I am. Looking forward to my first game...

tesco samoa

February 6th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Geo how did you over come the none -gas for balance ??? For none players and gas players will have one less planet per level of equalness

Ragnarok

February 6th, 2004, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by Joachim:
Thats OK, my cloaked star destroyer is just waiting for the best time.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Hmmm, I guess I should bring my Sphereworld Online sooner then planned then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

geoschmo

February 6th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Geo how did you over come the none -gas for balance ??? For none players and gas players will have one less planet per level of equalness Yes, the balance was based on number of available facility slots, not on number of planets. Players that prefered fewer larger planets would choose gas giant, those that prefered smaller and more numerous planets would take rock or ice. It depended on your play style and preferance.

Geoschmo

tesco samoa

February 6th, 2004, 07:00 PM

yea.... i was trying to actually balance each and every system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So it was 100 % equal

parabolize

February 9th, 2004, 10:46 AM

Turn 2411.3 Dinglehopper withdrew from game.
In the early part of the game he had attacked with 60 frigates when I had ~15 DDs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Luckily my PD DDs I had made after he killed one system stoped the 60 frigates. After that my tech edge got biger and biger. In the end I think food contamination got his people to riot. It was an odd game.

geoschmo

February 9th, 2004, 03:39 PM

So, how's the King match coming? No war reports from Asmala or Bbegemott? Surely there has been some combat by now? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

BBegemott

February 9th, 2004, 08:20 PM

KOTH BBegemott vs Asmala
Turn 2403.3
10 starting planets + no stellar manip + Geoschmo's spiral map

In short- Asmala has got the initiative.

He was leading in scores all the time, has already glassed one my homeworld and done some damage to the second. He controls the better part of the galaxy with more huge/breathebles than I do. So he naturally has more resorces & ships. Luckily I have the talisman.

There were lots of combats, but mostly they were small ones including no more than 10-15 ships.

Speaking about the map- i really like the shape of the map (in 3D terms it is a ring- a cyllinder with connected edges). Fast expansion, fast first contact and little knowledge where the enemy will come from makes this game exciting. Yet I am not happy with huge/breatheble/colonisable balanse. There are 19 perfect planets in Asmala's teritory vs. 7 of mine.

Iansidious

February 10th, 2004, 02:21 AM

BBegemott I love your avatar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Slynky

February 10th, 2004, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Iansidious:
BBegemott I love your avatar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Yeah, apparently the crown is a delicate item http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

BBegemott

February 10th, 2004, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by Iansidious:
BBegemott I love your avatar.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Then Join KOTH! Who knows, maybe you'll have it someday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

David E. Gervais

February 10th, 2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Iansidious:
BBegemott I love your avatar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'll take part of that compliment, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Slynky

February 10th, 2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by parabolize:
Turn 2411.3 Dinglehopper withdrew from game.
I guess that means it's us up next?

Asmala

February 10th, 2004, 05:05 PM

Updated.

We've a new player again. Welcome Hustler!

parabolize

February 10th, 2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by parabolize:
Turn 2411.3 Dinglehopper withdrew from game.
I guess that means it's us up next? <hr /></blockquote>Yes you get to take all my Ratings points away agian http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Iansidious

February 10th, 2004, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by BBegemott:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally posted by Iansidious:
BBegemott I love your avatar.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Then Join KOTH! Who knows, maybe you'll have it someday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>I have!(Hustler) Maybe I could be the first evil King(I always have liked the bad guys.I get tired of the good guys always winning)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Iansidious

February 10th, 2004, 08:40 PM

[/QUOTE]I'll take part of that compliment, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif [/QB][/QUOTE]

Best avatar maker on the internet!

Iansidious

February 10th, 2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Updated.

We've a new player again. Welcome Hustler! Thank You. I hope my goal if fulfilled while playing K.O.T.H. That is to become a better SEIV player. Best way to do that is play with the big boys. Right? Also because I have a few other friends want to play in the near furture and I want to crush them like the little magots they are http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Baron Grazic

February 11th, 2004, 01:50 AM

Now this is the right attitude for a KOTH player and possible King to have.
I wish you all the luck in making your way up the slippy hill, unless we meet that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

David E. Gervais

February 11th, 2004, 01:26 PM

I'm going to resign from my KotH game today, having waited 150+ hours for narf to upload his turn 2 (not turn 200, turn two!)

Asmala, next KotH game I'm in, I'll want a written comittment from the other player before I accept any challenge. (Oh, and a 24 hour 'enforced' turn limit.)

So, far I'm really not impressed with my first KotH game. (I would have prefered to be stuck behind 3 massive black holes than play against someone who can't find the 5 mins to make a turn every 48hrs.)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. sorry for the grim mood, but my patience has run out.

Edit: Oh, by the way, the 'Conquest Star Trek Mod' Game I'm currently in is running along smoothly. (and there are still 4 or 5 players still left in the game.) And on top of that, we often get several turns per day.

Edit #2: Narf has won this KotH game by using a time honored military strategy.. "Delay and Deomralize" (usually this tactic is used in seige warfare, but it obviously works in KotH games too.)

Goodbye KotH, hello private PBW games.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 11, 2004, 13:09: Message edited by: David E. Gervais ]

spoon

February 11th, 2004, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:
I'm going to resign from my KotH game today, having waited 150+ hours for narf to upload his turn 2 (not turn 200, turn two!)Bad Narf, no donut.

But try not to let one rat ruin the, uh, recipe. I think most KOTH games move on at a fair clip.

Give it another chance!

David E. Gervais

February 11th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by spoon:
But try not to let one rat ruin the, uh, recipe. Careful spoon, Narf is a Mouse, not a rat. (and a cartoon mouse too, so he follows different rules than real people.)

I hand Narf a nice cool 'Cheeze-Flavored' soda pop, and let him know there are no hard feelings.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo

February 11th, 2004, 06:11 PM

Ekkk, yes David, don't let that spoil you. Most games go far faster then that. I understand your frustration though. At the very least it seems he could have done turn 2 at the time he uploaded turn 1. It processed immedietly since you had already uploaded your turn. I always try to encourage people to do that, at least in the early part of the game. With two players doing that you can actually get two turns in per day with only one visit to the site per day. Or if you can only make it every other day you can still effectivly get a turn per day in by doing that.

Phoenix-D

February 11th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Most do. For example my current one started on the first of this month and is on turn 33.

OTOH, one of them I played went on for several months, mostly because I was too permitting with my opponent.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 11th, 2004, 08:42 PM

David, please don't quit. i havn't been able to upload the turn and i refuse any 'win' based on the other person quiting. in fact, if you insist on quiting, then i quit to. so i don't win.

geoschmo

February 11th, 2004, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
David, please don't quit. i havn't been able to upload the turn and i refuse any 'win' based on the other person quiting. in fact, if you insist on quiting, then i quit to. so i don't win. 'eh? This has been your problem for a week? I got the one message from you about it, but from the timing it looked like you happened to try uploading at a moment while I was rebooting the server. Are you saying you are still having this problem and have been for days?

I need more info. Noone else is reporting this.

Geoschmo

narf poit chez BOOM

February 11th, 2004, 09:06 PM

no, my reason for not uploading saturday is simple stupidity: i forgot. feel free to call me an idiot.

how did i forget? the same way i forgot to tell someone something for six months, when it was something i wanted to tell them. i just put 'playing pbw turns' as the first thing to do in the morning.

i put a reply in the pbw down thread: 'i'm not sure when it started, i think i had it with the P&N game to, but it dissapeared after a while. it dissapeared sometime Last night, because i just uploaded the koth turn(please come back, David) and it worked. i opened up 'gameupload', something i should have done sooner and got this 'Cannot execute player command: Filename uploaded was unexpected; expecting: kothnva_0001.plr', which is exactly what it was named.'

David E. Gervais

February 11th, 2004, 09:30 PM

Narf, the game is over, I have already resigned. I understand you were having problems, and don't place all the blame on you. If you want to call this game 'Null & Void' that's fine. I think you need to play a few more PBW games to get the hang of it. once you are more accustomed to joining/playing PBW games we could try again, but not for the time being.

I'm not mad,. It was just very frustrating, (I'm sure it was for you too.) Perhaps we would be better matched against veterans in our first games so that they can help with the mechanics.

any way, I'll return to KotH in the future, but not just now.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 11, 2004, 19:31: Message edited by: David E. Gervais ]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 12th, 2004, 08:20 AM

ok. thanks for not being mad at me.

or wait...is this your revenge? getting me mauled by a koth veteran? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Asmala

February 12th, 2004, 09:00 PM

David, KotH games are ALPU on default because normally there's no need to time limits since the games go so fast. If there is problems I switch to automatic turns if my message to other player doesn't change the situation. However, I can't do anything if I'm not informed about a delay in turns (I don't have time to check all KotH game whether there is problems). But, welcome back to the Hill whenever you want.

I've updated the KotH page. Unfortunately there isn't a new opponent to Narf yet. But I think one will come soon (fast down the Hill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

Renegade 13

February 13th, 2004, 06:24 AM

Could someone please tell me what the general or default settings for KOTH games are? I've got a game that needs to get started between myself and another newcomer to KOTH, but we don't know what the "normal" settings are.

Asmala

February 13th, 2004, 10:37 AM

KOTH defaults:
-small spiral arm quadrant
-no A.I. or neutral players
-no ruins
-no events
-5000 units
-1000 ships
-everything else will be the default SEIV game settings

primitive

February 13th, 2004, 11:49 AM

Welcome to the Hill Renegade, Always good with some fresh meat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What Asmala said is the defaults (remember 2000 points), and applies when the players don�t request something special (or can�t agree).

There are a few requests that are very common and you should discuss with your opponent before you start;
- Using a �Tesco� map (maps with preset starting positions) which gives better chances of a balanced game.
- 3 (or more) starting planets cuts about 10 turns of the early game and also minimises the penalty for a bad starting system(s)
- Also many games put a ban on Ancient trait and Intel.

You should also check out the clone thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=008085#000000) before you make your empire.
Short Version: Take at least 20 % to attack, 20% to defence and the Berzerker trait or you are screwed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Asmala

February 13th, 2004, 06:02 PM

KOTH BBegemott vs Asmala 2404.1

The map is a big 117-system grid map with edges wrapping and it has changed the playing style a lot. No use for one enormous fleet, instead of that we both have many small fleets. I have currently six small fleets destroying and capturing BBegemott's planets, he has four I'm aware of.

As BBegemott said I got the better part of the galaxy. I have researched a second colony type and as far as I can tell BBegemott hasn't. That means I have not only better planets but more of them.

I have constructed a nice amount of dreadnoughts whereas BBegemott has only cruisers, but my ships use still DUC Vs which put me in a slight disadvantage in combats.

All in all, I think I would be winning this if BBegemott didn't have the talisman.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 13th, 2004, 07:37 PM

You should also check out the clone thread before you make your empire.
Short Version: Take at least 20 % to attack, 20% to defence and the Berzerker trait or you are screwed
i think for my next game i'm going to request no change to ship attack and defence and no berzerker.

gravey101

February 13th, 2004, 07:59 PM

or just request 0 racial points. With 2000 one can get AST and HI/PE with a pretty standard min-max. Reducing the racial points would present more choices while at the same time not telling a player what they must or must not do.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 13th, 2004, 10:08 PM

Narf - founding member of the FAAA - Forumers Against All Acronyms.

or in other words, what?

gravey101

February 13th, 2004, 10:27 PM

ast = advanced storage techniques
hi = hardy industrialists
pe = populsion experts

Thought you had played this game ? :-)

Master Belisarius

February 13th, 2004, 11:49 PM

I surrender to Spoon.
Spoon has played a game without mistakes, and right now, to continue the game is like try to fight with a spoon against a man with a sword!
Although I think it doesn't diminish the Spoon's merits (after all it wasn't his fault!), my starting place screwed my expansion, but also, suspect the ruins decided the rest.

Please Asmala, could you move me to the bottom?

narf poit chez BOOM

February 14th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by gravey101:
ast = advanced storage techniques
hi = hardy industrialists
pe = populsion experts

Thought you had played this game ? :-) i can't seem to translate acronyms automatically.

spoon

February 14th, 2004, 02:12 AM

Great game, MB. You kept me sweating for a couple turns there while I scrambled to get my attack ships in one spot! You are supposed to sit quietly while I amass my fleets!

About ruins, I didn't even know that the Tesco maps had ruins on them! Otherwise I probably would have asked for a different map due to their tendency to unbalance the game.

Good luck, I'll see you at the top of the hill in four more games!

Asmala

February 14th, 2004, 09:45 AM

There shouldn't have been ruins in Tesco maps, but I have still encountered two with ruins. I've removed both from my Tesco map folder so in future there won't be ruins in a Tesco map (unless there is a map I haven't used yet).

KotH page is updated.

Slynky

February 14th, 2004, 07:27 PM

Slynky vs Parabolize: 2402.7

Boundaries are being finalized and it looks like the map has been divided about in half. We're playing on the new mod by Geo (Balance 1.1). It changes the game a bit, I think...here is my take on it:

1 - Bear in mind this doesn't mean you will be placed "away" from each other...we started fairly close to each other...meeting around turn 6 or 7. So THAT is still a concern that everyone needs to remember.

2 - Yes, it's a bit unexciting as you enter a new system (neither of us took ancient) but it's nice to know you will have 4 planets waiting on you that you can use and ONE will be a breathable. The only unbalancing thing here is where they are located (sometimes, "my" breathable was at a far corner from where I wanted it to be but it's a small problem...hardly worth worrying about). Also, remember your opponent will have the same choices in where he goes and what he will have available. (in our game, we have different colony types, so we're not fighting over the same planets).

3 - All the planets are at the same percentages. This is nice and maybe, I say "maybe", makes things easier for the less skilled player. You see, the more skilled you are, the more likely you are able to forecast mineral needs ahead of time. However in this game, when you run low on something, you can just switch from research to minerals and now worry about it (as everything is at 100%). That helps me because sometimes, in other games, I find out I have missed my production prediction and have to scramble to keep shipyards running and have to make decisions on switching over the 90%'s to minerals or not...stuff like that.

4 - Medium planets give room for 3 facs. This make you use the choices wisely. If you build a lot of SY's, that doesn't leave room for much else. And not a lot of cargo space for platforms. So, the bulk of your planets will not be able to have many platforms. That is good or bad depending on how you play...but it's the same for everyone.

5 - No possibility of doubling or tripling training facilities. Of course, this is the same for everyone. Makes you think more about sensors and ECM!

6 - No worries about "moving" past "warped" points and falling into a hole (and croaking). Of course, most people took those chances anyway.

7 - I think there is less of a chance that people will take ancient with this balanced set up. That's either good or bad depeinding on how you feel about it. But, one of the reasons a person took (takes) ancient is to find the good planets. With this balanced mod, this isn't a worry. So, ancient has less value. I also wondered about the need for Advanced Storage as well...but took it anyhow.

All in all, your economic availability is the same as your opponent and you are left with your empire setup and craftiness to win. I suspect a lot of empires will be nearly the same so, that leaves craftiness...something that Parabolize is doing pretty well at.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 14th, 2004, 08:24 PM

a note on my new koth game: i don't go on the internet on sunday. since the internet covers the globe, that means i try not to go to sites that i know are now in sunday. that means 5:00 for shrapnell and 9:00 for PBW. so, i may end up doing my first turn monday. i'm sorry for any inconvenience. if this happens, be assured that the koth turn will be one of the first few things i do on the computer monday. however, that's my religious belief and i have been logging off here before 5:00 for a long time.

narf poit chez BOOM

February 14th, 2004, 10:16 PM

going on bike ride - don't know how long it'll take, but probably not to long. neither of us is in good shape.

Atrocities

February 14th, 2004, 11:18 PM

Here is a picture of something that I love very much. I don't get to ride very often, but when I do, I try to have as much fun as I am able to.

LINK (http://www.astmod.com/ds650red.PNG)

Have I got stories for you people.

This is competition that I can win at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 14, 2004, 21:29: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 15th, 2004, 01:10 AM

well, i am tired but happy.

mines a pedal bike. need a new back tire, mines wobbly. but there's not to many tires sized for someone my size.

Phoenix-D

February 15th, 2004, 09:29 PM

K.O.T.H. Phoenix-D vs Taterbill

I have surrendered. I think I had the advantage in ship quality, but not enough to face down fleets twice my size and more.

taterbill

February 15th, 2004, 11:26 PM

Phoenix-D,

Great game, thanks! I agree you had a bit of an edge in ship quality at the front lines, but I had some pretty good models making their way to the front. 'Course, I'm sure you had better models coming too...

My biggest break was when you moved your fleet to attack me in Atull right when I attacked your planet. I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to beat your fleet and your planetary defenses too. I got very lucky to not have to.

Thanks again... good luck.

taterbill

[edit - spelling]

[ February 15, 2004, 21:26: Message edited by: taterbill ]

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 12:41 AM

Congrats, Tater! Perhaps you got a few tips from me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

parabolize

February 16th, 2004, 01:17 AM

K.O.T.H. Slynky vs Parabolize
turn 2404.0
I surrender!
For the second time he got into my system smashing everything on the warp point. I should have started to upgrade them sooner.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Asmala: For some reason, clicking on the "Game" link in the KOTH site doesn't take you to the game.

parabolize

February 16th, 2004, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Asmala: For some reason, clicking on the "Game" link in the KOTH site doesn't take you to the game. It does for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
K.O.T.H. Slynky vs Parabolize
turn 2404.0
I surrender!
For the second time he got into my system smashing everything on the warp point. I should have started to upgrade them sooner. Parabolize is a dangerous player! I've said it more than once that he is better than his rating would suggest. I still can't figure out his magical economic ability! He had, at the game surrender, around 75 ships to my 100+. He also had about 65 colonies to my 85 (and I had been settling another colony type to get me from 65 to 85) while he only had one colony type. And 8-10 of my ships were miners (on those 300% asteroids). So, how he could have so many ships (the turn before he surrendered, I killed 37 ships) is amazing to me! On top of all that, my research was about 100k and his was around 75K.

To comment on Geo's balanced map, there seems to be a bit of a fluke. Of course, this doesn't mean the balanced map is worse than a "regular" start could have been...because we have all seen bad starts! But, my home systems, a 3-planet start, were all in separate systems (giving me a better chance to get to the breathable in each system easily). His home system was all in one system. This is a bit of a disadvantage in this sort of game where even this kind of difference can be more than you might expect. HOWEVER, instead of creating him another planet (we chose GOOD) that was large (leaving all the mediums), for some reason, he didn't even have a breathable in his home system. It seems to have taken it away (perhaps because of multiple home planets instead of just one). So, in each of my home systems, I had easy access to 4 other planets (one a breathable) while he had to leave his system to find a breathable (as well as other planets to settle). Not sure if there is any way to to fix this in the mod...it may be a "game" problem that can't be over come.

Anyway, it was an interesting game. We had some good action around a few systems...he pushed me out of 3 of them. Surprised me early on with a few attacks (I won't give it away). But, killing 37 ships (losing around 10-15 myself) and in another system, capturing one of his colony ships (with one of his pops), was a good time to end.

Good luck in your next game, "P"!

geoschmo

February 16th, 2004, 04:17 AM

Was this a random map using the balance mod, or did someone create the map and specify starting positions?

What atmosphere/planet types did you both have?

I'll try to figure out what happened. My gut says it's a game thing and there isn't anything I will be able to do short of narrowing down the problem and sending a report to Malfador.

Geoschmo

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Was this a random map using the balance mod, or did someone create the map and specify starting positions?

What atmosphere/planet types did you both have?

I'll try to figure out what happened. My gut says it's a game thing and there isn't anything I will be able to do short of narrowing down the problem and sending a report to Malfador.

Geoschmo I think it is "inner game", too, Geo. If so, then making the knowledge available would be fine, in my opinion. I'm sure 1-planet starts would work fine and if people know a 3-planet start may come with problems, then they take that chance.

To my knowledge, no one adjusted starting points...you'd have to check with Asmala. But since we started with only one vacant system between us, I'm pretty sure it was random placement and not adjusted.

I took Gas and he took Rock (not sure how that matters much). I took Methane and he took Hydrogen. And, as I said, it was, as far as I know, Balance 1.1 (but Asmala would have to confirm). I can send you the game file with my password if you like.

parabolize

February 16th, 2004, 06:13 AM

"His home system was all in one system."
slynky open the game again and look around. I have one home world in Cewandi and 2 in Xillantha.
The other planet in Xillantha was not a home planet it was the "missing breathable". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I liked the map. Good game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edit: spelling

[ February 16, 2004, 04:16: Message edited by: parabolize ]

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
"His home system was all in one system."
slynky open the game again and look around. I have one home world in Cewandi and 2 in Xillantha.
The other planet in Xillantha was not a home planet it was the "missing breathable". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I liked the map. Good game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
edit: spelling DRAT! Yep, my mistake!

You were in 2 systems. I guess I got fooled because you had been doing pop transfer and I only looked at the pop bars on the display. Didn't even notice one of the planets was medium.

(hope Geo didn't get crosseyed trying to figure out stuff)

Asmala

February 16th, 2004, 04:56 PM

KotH page is updated.

Yes it was Balance mod 1.1 and random starting positions.

"Game" links in Koth site works well for me. Still problems?

BBegemott

February 16th, 2004, 05:17 PM

BBegemott vs Asmala
Turn 2404.8

Asmala has more everything: research, ships, intel, resources. My worlds are rioting. And the talisman can't help against economical troubles.

This is the end. Vengeful Dreamers surrender to Black Hole Riders. Congrats to Asmala for the well played game. May your kingdom prosper!

As RL time shortage is upcoming, please take me off the Hill for a while. Thx.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
"Game" links in Koth site works well for me. Still problems? Nope...I get a black background with the usual blue printing that says:

"You may
have
entered
your user
name or
password
incorrectly.
You may not
have logged
in yet."

Down the left side. Weird, like I can get to the KOTH site but not any of the games listed on PBW.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 06:20 PM

Well, congrats to my young friend from Finland. From the first time I played a game with him, over a year ago, I knew he had talent.

Now, you just need to talk the "Avatar Master" into putting a crown on that avatar of yours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

geoschmo

February 16th, 2004, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Weird, like I can get to the KOTH site but not any of the games listed on PBW. Sounds like you just aren't logged into the site. Are you logging out when you leave PBW? That will do it. Or if you don't have the "remember login" box checked. When you navigate to PBW normally do you have to login every time? It's perfectly all right to logout of PBW whenever you leave and not have the "remember login" box checked. Preferable in fact if you share your computer withsome else. But if you do these things then you aren't going to be able to follow game links like what Asmala has on teh koth page.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Weird, like I can get to the KOTH site but not any of the games listed on PBW. Sounds like you just aren't logged into the site. Are you logging out when you leave PBW? That will do it. Or if you don't have the "remember login" box checked. When you navigate to PBW normally do you have to login every time? It's perfectly all right to logout of PBW whenever you leave and not have the "remember login" box checked. Preferable in fact if you share your computer withsome else. But if you do these things then you aren't going to be able to follow game links like what Asmala has on teh koth page. <hr /></blockquote>I'll try to clear my name and PW and reset it and tell it to remember. Otherwise, it's confusing because I have a shortcut on my links bar to PBW (well, DUH!, it's where I spend my time!) that works without any request for a PW. And when I am done, I just "X" out of the site.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 06:57 PM

Well, that fixed it. I logged out of PBW. Entered ID and PW again...checking "remember".

But that didn't fix it right away. When I click on the KOTH "Hill" game, it gave me the same thing...so I logged in THERE as well. Checking "remember". Then it worked OK.

Go figure! Somewhere along the problem, it must have been a Microsoft glitch...hehe.

Asmala

February 16th, 2004, 07:25 PM

Thanks for great game BBegemott. I was able to get a bit bigger and a lot better part of the galaxy, and I think that was my victory's main reason. Your part wasn't good. When I planned my attacks I tried to find your big rock mineral breathables, but I didn't find any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

The game was very different from others I've played. 10 good starting planets and a grid map is something I've never before tried. As you can imagine when 10 homeworlds produce colonizers and there's always four warp points in a system, the expansion was extremely rapid. About 250 planets, 4M score, 1.6M resource production, 200 ships and 100 under construction is something you see rarely before turn 50!

So it's me and Geoschmo next. Usually I've asked Geoschmo to make my Koth games but now we have to find other admin. Any volunteers?

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Thanks for great game BBegemott. I was able to get a bit bigger and a lot better part of the galaxy, and I think that was my victory's main reason. Your part wasn't good. When I planned my attacks I tried to find your big rock mineral breathables, but I didn't find any. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

The game was very different from others I've played. 10 good starting planets and a grid map is something I've never before tried. As you can imagine when 10 homeworlds produce colonizers and there's always four warp points in a system, the expansion was extremely rapid. About 250 planets, 4M score, 1.6M resource production, 200 ships and 100 under construction is something you see rarely before turn 50!

So it's me and Geoschmo next. Usually I've asked Geoschmo to make my Koth games but now we have to find other admin. Any volunteers? I would be honored! But, considering my Last mistake, I understand if you would like someone else.

Asmala

February 16th, 2004, 07:30 PM

Koth page is updated.

BBegemott, I removed you from the Hill as you wished. Welcome back when you have time again.

Rollo

February 16th, 2004, 07:35 PM

Congrats to the new King. I can host the next match if you like.

Asmala

February 16th, 2004, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
I would be honored! But, considering my Last mistake, I understand if you would like someone else. Thanks. If Geo has no objections you can set up the game.

Asmala

February 16th, 2004, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Rollo:
Congrats to the new King. I can host the next match if you like. Thanks, but Slynky was first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

February 16th, 2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Rollo:
Congrats to the new King. I can host the next match if you like. who's that?

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rollo:
Congrats to the new King. I can host the next match if you like. Thanks, but Slynky was first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Thanks, Asmala http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I will be extra careful this time.

Please look at my comments in another thread about how I decide on a map for a game:

1- I turn off ruins;
2- Set the map type and size;
3- Generate over and over till I find one that looks good to me...that means, a map with things like this (hopefully): a few choke points, interesting and (possibly) confusing warp lines, and a size that looks appropriate to the number of starting planets.
4- Then I edit it and look for starting positions that seem equal. That means the following: both players have the same amount of warp points out of the system. For example, if one position has 3, then the other person's place will have 3. Or 2. I make sure that both players will not have the warps out of their system leading to a worthless system (nebulas, asteroids...etc.). I check the choke points and count to make sure that each person can get there in the same amount of time (or, perhaps, only one turn less). I don't place the opponents as far away as possible. I usually leave some room "behind" each of them. I don't want each opponent to know that I will place them as far away as possible...that seems unfair. Sometimes, depending on the map, I will place them on the same side and leave the other side open for deeper exploration. But far enough away that they don't have to worry for many turns. To me, doing something like that gives a front to worry about and leaves the other side of the map for the person who can take the best advantage of moving around fast.

In summary, I try to choose a map and place people so that it looks like a game I would find interesting, fair, and challenging.

geoschmo

February 16th, 2004, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:

1- I turn off ruins;
2- Set the map type and size;
3- Generate over and over till I find one that looks good to me...Just one question though. You aren't specifing here whether you are doing this generation in the map editor or within the game itself. If it's in the map editor there are a couple bugs you need to know about that will affect the results.
1. Map editor generated maps will have ruins regardless of if you tell it not to.
2. The map editor doesn't randomize very well.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:

1- I turn off ruins;
2- Set the map type and size;
3- Generate over and over till I find one that looks good to me...Just one question though. You aren't specifing here whether you are doing this generation in the map editor or within the game itself. If it's in the map editor there are a couple bugs you need to know about that will affect the results.
1. Map editor generated maps will have ruins regardless of if you tell it not to.
2. The map editor doesn't randomize very well. <hr /></blockquote>If there are no requests for a special mod (Junkyard, or Balance, for example), I use the standard 1.84 game to create a map. Then I save it. Then I edit it. When I create the game, I retrieve it. I turn off ruins before I create the map. I click over and over looking for the "right" map size and "interesting" looks.

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 09:15 PM

Game assignment ready. Hope you enjoy the names.

Good luck to both!

Asmala is a scientist. Geo is a gambler with surprises. It looks to be interesting!

geoschmo

February 16th, 2004, 09:18 PM

Hmmm, does the current King usually get the player 1 spot? Or does it even matter? Maybe the player 2 spot is better anyway and so should go to the king. I don't know, I'm just asking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slynky

February 16th, 2004, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Hmmm, does the current King usually get the player 1 spot? Or does it even matter? Maybe the player 2 spot is better anyway and so should go to the king. I don't know, I'm just asking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Actually, I don't know...I don't think it matters. For some strange reason, I had your name in mind, Geo. Usually, I assign players according to alpha.

I'll fix so it fits as it should.

Alneyan

February 17th, 2004, 03:55 PM

A random thought occurred to me when thinking of game balance: what about making domed planets a bit more useful than average? Currently a breathable planet has five times as many facilities as a domed planet, which is quite a difference. The latest Version of FQM reduces this gap to about three times as many facilities, making domed planets a bit more useful.

Obviously, this will only help to reduce the effects of tough luck when it comes to breathable planets, and so is definitively not the panacea. It would less drastic than the Balance Mod as the game is still random instead of being predetermined, so there is still the luck of the draw, but you will know these non-breathable planets are a tad more useful than before.

geoschmo

February 17th, 2004, 04:11 PM

That is certainly an option to consider Alneayan. What I was going for with the balance mod was data files that could be used by the game host to create the first turn, and then wouldn't be needed for the players after that. Changing the number of faciliites on a domed world would require a mod to be used for the entire game. But it would definetly help allevieate the disadvantage of very few breathable worlds.

geoschmo

February 17th, 2004, 09:48 PM

K.O.T.H. Update, King Match, Asmala vs Geoschmo 2400.2

I'm in first place.

Yeah, it's only turn 2, but I'm in first place! Woo hoo! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Grandpa Kim

February 18th, 2004, 03:57 AM

Hey, Asmala, whazzat stuck on your head? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 04:09 AM

his ego. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katchoo

February 18th, 2004, 06:21 AM

Asmala, I'm ready to return to the Hill. Go ahead and toss me into an open spot at the bottom.

PS, that crown looks like it could fit on Narf's head too...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 06:28 AM

ah, but i'm new at koth and pbw. and there's a lot of people in the way.

hmm, i might have to use two hammers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 04:29: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Alneyan

February 18th, 2004, 12:46 PM

Indeed Geo, it would require to use a mod, but I guess you would be very happy if you were to see too many red crosses over your planets for your taste. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It does look like being called "young friend" by Slynky gives good luck, unless he meant "fiend" rather. *Whistles* Incidentally Geo, is there a Crown if you lose all four games in the Ratings tournament? I am quite a good chance to claim this one as my own.

Asmala

February 18th, 2004, 08:31 PM

Welcome back Katchoo! No opponent yet but will come soon I think.

It's a nice crown, isn't it. Unfortunately it's so slanted it might drop easily... Hey Geo, stop pushing me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Asmala

February 18th, 2004, 09:20 PM

King of the Hill 2401.9

First battle: my planet against Geo's destroyer. Result: six accurate shots from planet's weapon platforms and the ship was dead.

geoschmo

February 18th, 2004, 09:30 PM

King of the Hill, 2401.9

Contrary to the propaganda being diseminated by the Black Hole Riders, the first battle of the war was a complete and utter victory by the Imperium Astralis. The Riders colonists on the first world encountered fled at the mere sight of Imperium forces and abandoned the planet they had worked so hard to establish.

The "first battle" the Riders speak of was actually the second of the war, and it was merely a scouting mission to see if all Riders people were as skittish as the first batch.

We are happy to report, they are not. The war can now begin in earnest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 18, 2004, 19:31: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

narf poit chez BOOM

February 18th, 2004, 10:56 PM

hey MB, i don't have your shipset. which one are you using?

Master Belisarius

February 19th, 2004, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
hey MB, i don't have your shipset. which one are you using? I'm using the Pyrochette (a true classic!). Now I know you have not installed the TDM!

narf poit chez BOOM

February 19th, 2004, 12:57 AM

hmm...there's a TDM-Modpack folder in my SE4G directory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

taterbill

February 19th, 2004, 09:08 AM

Sigh... It's lonely here on the middle of the Hill.

Any games at the foot of the Hill getting close to the end?

Rollo

February 19th, 2004, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
hmm...there's a TDM-Modpack folder in my SE4G directory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif then you can do the following:
1. create a folder ..pictures\races\Pyrochette in the SE4 main directory
2. cut all the Pyrochette images from the TDM and paste them into the new folder, but the leave the AI files where they are

Rollo

February 19th, 2004, 12:50 PM

* pokes Geo for a new chapter of the Book of Kings

Gandalph

February 19th, 2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by taterbill:
Sigh... It's lonely here on the middle of the Hill.

Any games at the foot of the Hill getting close to the end? KOTH Gandalph vs. Gozguy
Stardate 2409.6
Standard KOTH settings

It has been a long and slow war, but the forces of the Corrian Commonwealth seem to have an edge at this time.
We developed troops and have been seizing colonies from the Chin Empire. It will be nice to get those oxygen breathers to the right worlds.
We are aware of the Chin's Homeworld, but have chosen a slow advance for the purpose of being able to protect that which we have stolen. With Intelligence coming Online, it should not be too much longer before the demise of the Chin Empire.

Master Belisarius

February 19th, 2004, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Rollo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
hmm...there's a TDM-Modpack folder in my SE4G directory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif then you can do the following:
1. create a folder ..pictures\races\Pyrochette in the SE4 main directory
2. cut all the Pyrochette images from the TDM and paste them into the new folder, but the leave the AI files where they are <hr /></blockquote>Rollo is right.
But also, with the Modlauncher you could play our game (like I do) using the TDM Mod. Because this MOD only change the AI scripts, then, it's compatible with a game started with the SE4G stock.

parabolize

February 20th, 2004, 06:53 AM

K.O.T.H. Phoenix-D vs Parabolize
turn 2402.7
Geo's map balancing mod
3 good home worlds
no intel or mines

Phoenix-D surrenders!
He had organic DDs and I used fighters. The fighers where way to hard for his PD to kill. I remember Grandpa Kim doing the same to my organic ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ February 20, 2004, 04:58: Message edited by: parabolize ]

Phoenix-D

February 20th, 2004, 07:00 AM

If my ramming ships would have worked it would have been fine.

As it is my PD couldn't hit enough because I went seekers and thus negative aggressiveness. It figures that the ONE time I go seeker heavy my opponent goes for fighters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Slynky

February 20th, 2004, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
K.O.T.H. Phoenix-D vs Parabolize
turn 2402.7
Geo's map balancing mod
3 good home worlds
no intel or mines

Phoenix-D surrenders!
He had organic DDs and I used fighters. The fighers where way to hard for his PD to kill. I remember Grandpa Kim doing the same to my organic ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Gee, Parabolize, if you play that fast and win again, I could do something that's rarely done...play the same person twice in the same attempt on the hill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Electrum

February 20th, 2004, 05:26 PM

RE: Koth Electrum vs Gecko

Our Last turn was cycled on 2/14 (turn 13). It appears the Gecko is involved in obtaining a new job. I have e-mailed him stating that I understand that Real Life must take priority, but if he is finding it difficult to make timely turns, he may wish to consider withdrawing until RL settles down. I would!

Electrum

Asmala

February 20th, 2004, 05:39 PM

Koth page is updated.

[ February 20, 2004, 15:40: Message edited by: Asmala ]

Asmala

February 20th, 2004, 05:44 PM

Electrum, I asked Gecko about this. If he doesn't reply or play more frequently I'll remove him from the Hill.

geoschmo

February 20th, 2004, 05:55 PM

Gecko's gone walkabout in a bash tourney game too.

Slynky

February 20th, 2004, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Gecko's gone walkabout in a bash tourney game too. And I posted a thread hailing him in a challenge game 4 of us have. Last I heard, though, he didn't say he couldn't play...he said he couldn't take on any new games (Anklebiters). I assumed that meant he could finish his games that were in progress. If he dropped from the Challenge game, it would affect 3 other players since it's a rated game...actually killing the game.

tesco samoa

February 20th, 2004, 11:04 PM

Hi. I would like some players to test out some of the new koth maps i have been working on.

With some of the upcoming games ask to play on a new Koth Map.

Asmala can set the games up with some of the new maps and then you can post your thoughts about them in the other thread. I Have a map pack of some tester maps set up this weekend for download.

IT would be a great help as I am at the big stage of setting up the start positons.

parabolize

February 21st, 2004, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hi. I would like some players to test out some of the new koth maps i have been working on.

With some of the upcoming games ask to play on a new Koth Map.

Asmala can set the games up with some of the new maps and then you can post your thoughts about them in the other thread. I Have a map pack of some tester maps set up this weekend for download.

IT would be a great help as I am at the big stage of setting up the start positons. I asked to play with one of your new koth maps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Master Belisarius

February 21st, 2004, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by geoschmo:
Gecko's gone walkabout in a bash tourney game too. And I posted a thread hailing him in a challenge game 4 of us have. Last I heard, though, he didn't say he couldn't play...he said he couldn't take on any new games (Anklebiters). I assumed that meant he could finish his games that were in progress. If he dropped from the Challenge game, it would affect 3 other players since it's a rated game...actually killing the game. <hr /></blockquote>He's having some RL problems, and told me will have problems to play his turns for awhile, but he didn't told me that would be unable to continue.

Slynky

February 21st, 2004, 12:47 AM

Thanks, Master B. We will just wait, I guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

taterbill

February 21st, 2004, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hi. I would like some players to test out some of the new koth maps i have been working on.

With some of the upcoming games ask to play on a new Koth Map.

Asmala can set the games up with some of the new maps and then you can post your thoughts about them in the other thread. I Have a map pack of some tester maps set up this weekend for download.

IT would be a great help as I am at the big stage of setting up the start positons. I asked to play with one of your new koth maps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Yes, I'm looking forward to being a guniea pig. Here's hoping it's terribly unbalanced - in my favor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

taterbill

February 21st, 2004, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by parabolize:
K.O.T.H. Phoenix-D vs Parabolize
turn 2402.7
Geo's map balancing mod
3 good home worlds
no intel or mines

Phoenix-D surrenders!
He had organic DDs and I used fighters. The fighers where way to hard for his PD to kill. I remember Grandpa Kim doing the same to my organic ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Gee, Parabolize, if you play that fast and win again, I could do something that's rarely done...play the same person twice in the same attempt on the hill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>Hey, I plan to at least put up a fight... My goal is to at least Last longer than I did against you, Slynky. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Katchoo

February 21st, 2004, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hi. I would like some players to test out some of the new koth maps i have been working on.

With some of the upcoming games ask to play on a new Koth Map.

Asmala can set the games up with some of the new maps and then you can post your thoughts about them in the other thread. I Have a map pack of some tester maps set up this weekend for download.

IT would be a great help as I am at the big stage of setting up the start positons. Phoenix-D and myself have volunteered to test one of your new Maps (Asmala's choice).

Asmala

February 21st, 2004, 09:39 AM

Tesco, where I can find the maps?

Cheeze

February 21st, 2004, 07:33 PM

VadimBey vs Cheeze, turn 227

VadimBey has won. This game went on incredibly long and was so much fun to play. I thought I was finished over 100 turns ago, but I was given the opportunity to recover and re-engage. I tried several different ideas, but mostly I lost because I was unfocused and erratic, changing things around and not following through on others. There was a point where I probably ought to have won as well, but Vadim was too spread out through the galaxy and was extremely well-served by having troops on many colonies and an enhanced happiness. Had I been playing someone who guts their happiness trait, they would have fallen apart at that point.

Playing VadimBey was like fighting a constrictor snake. Most of the game he moved slowly but decisively, and once he gained ground he rarely yielded. And he ended up choking me out until there was absolutely no way I could fight much further. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Electrum

February 21st, 2004, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Electrum, I asked Gecko about this. If he doesn't reply or play more frequently I'll remove him from the Hill. AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!
What was I thinking!!!
Now I'm up against Slynky!!

**sigh**

Oh well. Let's get the butt kicking over with
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Electrum

Asmala

February 22nd, 2004, 11:43 AM

The Koth page is updated.

The longest non-mod game in Koth history has finished. Astonishing 227 turns! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Alneyan

February 22nd, 2004, 01:14 PM

Not quite Electrum, both of us will win our KOTH games so that we will play with each other on the Last match before the king game. Obviously you will win against Slynky armada and I shall backstab Primitive. I know, that's wishful thinking, but still. May my Beginner's Luck shine on you Electrum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Slynky

February 22nd, 2004, 03:12 PM

Electrum:

You asked for a balanced map of Tesco's. Now, maybe I'm looking at things a bit funny in my home system but it seems to me there are a lot of NONE atmospehere moons that are ALL MEDIUM in size! That certainly adds, in my opinion, quite an edge for what is already considered (by some) an atmosphere type that brings a bit of advantage to it.

Let me know if you want to keep playing.

Slynky

February 22nd, 2004, 10:29 PM

Electrum vs Slynky: 2401.3

Slynky surrenders.

I don't care what atmosphere Electrum took, I'll not continue to play on what I think is the most unbalanced "balanced" map I've ever seen. Without providing visuals (screen shots) of system after system laden with NONE atmosphere...which could be the roll of the dice...what disturbs me the most is the plethora of NONE atmosphere moons that are mostly (about 90-95% of the time) medium-sized planets. Some rock, some ice. However, one thing is evident...if you took GAS, you are at a disadvantage.

Imagine a map where all things are like one sees with the SE4 generated systems...then, take all the NONE atmosphere moons (tiny) and change them to medium size. Yes, there is a gas moon sometimes but outnumbered by about 10 - 1.

Not sure how this system was generated but it certainly gives an advantage to anyone who took Ice/Rock - no atmosphere. Well, at least from the 10 systems I have been to (and I see no reason to believe it will change).

Ratings aren't so important to me as time. And I don't want to invest time in a game just to learn that my opponent has twice everything that I do because of the map.

This is not intended to take away from anything Electrum is capable of...just my disastifaction with the map.

Good luck (no pun intended), Electrum, on your trek up the hill !

This, BTW, is the second Tesco balanced map that has caused me consternation (previous being one that started a person in the middle of the map and started me in the corner...to be boxed in). For anyone with a good memory, I'll not play another one.

tesco samoa

February 23rd, 2004, 12:00 AM

hmmm. strange they should be set to any and any for type and atmosphere. with one just set at none any and tiny.

I will look into that ... put a hold on testing new maps...

parabolize

February 23rd, 2004, 12:17 AM

My tesco map looks the same lots and lots of medium none atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ February 22, 2004, 22:18: Message edited by: parabolize ]

Phoenix-D

February 23rd, 2004, 12:23 AM

ditto.

Electrum

February 23rd, 2004, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Electrum vs Slynky: 2401.3

Slynky surrenders.

I suggest a restart w/ a reqular map . But it's up to you.

FYI I didn't notice you Posts until now.

Renegade 13

February 23rd, 2004, 02:45 AM

I'm in a KOTH game with someone who....doesn't turn in their turns on a regular basis. Actually, the game started 4 days ago, and they haven't even sent in their first turn!! Now, he said he wouldn't be able to do his turns at a fast rate, but this is just ridiculous! Should I send him an email asking what's up, or what? And what should I do if he doesnt' respond, or will only be able to do his turns once every 4 days. Because this may be just me, but once every 4 days for a game involving 2 people is WAY too long. Personally, I could do 2 turns a day. Anyways, any advice? Thanks.

[ February 23, 2004, 00:46: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ]

Phoenix-D

February 23rd, 2004, 05:10 AM

Email him and see what happens..its not unreasonable to expect a decent pace. Otherwise you end up with something like this..

Phoenix-D def. Chocolatefro
49 turns
start Dec 23,2002
end May 7,2003

taterbill

February 23rd, 2004, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
My tesco map looks the same lots and lots of medium none atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill

parabolize

February 23rd, 2004, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by taterbill:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by parabolize:
My tesco map looks the same lots and lots of medium none atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill <hr /></blockquote>H2 rock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
but I will restart if you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slynky

February 23rd, 2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Electrum:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Electrum vs Slynky: 2401.3

Slynky surrenders.

I suggest a restart w/ a reqular map . But it's up to you.

FYI I didn't notice you Posts until now. <hr /></blockquote>Thanks, Electrum, but I've already computed the scores and made the adjustments. Now go kick some butt! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

DavidG

February 23rd, 2004, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Ratings aren't so important to me as time. And I don't want to invest time in a game just to learn that my opponent has twice everything that I do because of the map.
'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose.

Phoenix-D

February 23rd, 2004, 05:42 PM

Slynky

February 23rd, 2004, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Ratings aren't so important to me as time. And I don't want to invest time in a game just to learn that my opponent has twice everything that I do because of the map.
'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose. <hr /></blockquote>I DO have fun playing, win or lose. When I make my own mistakes and lose, I have only myself to blame and yet, I will most assuredly have had fun. I've posted before about games I was currently playing in about the amount of fun I was having, win or lose. However, when I perceive their is a balance problem in the map, I think my time would be spent better doing other things instead of trying to overcome (what appears to be) an insurmountable problem.

By time being better spent...I mean with my wife (who most assuredly agrees ANY time I walk away from a game and do something with her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

DavidG

February 23rd, 2004, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Ratings aren't so important to me as time. And I don't want to invest time in a game just to learn that my opponent has twice everything that I do because of the map.
'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose. <hr /></blockquote>Loosing because of the map is rarely fun. <hr /></blockquote>That was my point IMO Yes it is. And Winning on a map unbalanced against you is loads of fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

DavidG

February 23rd, 2004, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
However, when I perceive their is a balance problem in the map, I think my time would be spent better doing other things instead of trying to overcome (what appears to be) an insurmountable problem.
Try this and see how much fun it is when you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

geoschmo

February 23rd, 2004, 07:37 PM

For all intents and purposes David, it's imposible to do. And I'm not talking about the average run of the mill start where one player has a huge breathable in his homesystem, and the other guy doesn't and that's the only difference. But the really bad ones where one guy 2 or three times as many usable planets within colonizer range of his homeworld. That kind of a lead is flatly insurmountable unless the player is quite a bit more skilled at the teqhniques of expansion then the other guy. You could play 50 games against similerly skilled opponents with that kind of a disadvantage and win none of them.

But if that is your idea of fun, we could accomodate you. I am sure we could design some maps that would be quite sufficently painful for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not all Se4 has to be competative. You can have fun role playing or whatever. But the idea of Koth and the Se4 Ratings systems are for competition. Testing one anothers skill against each other. If the players cannot be given at least semi-equal playing fields, it's not test of skill any longer but who gets the luckier start.

Slynky

February 23rd, 2004, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
However, when I perceive their is a balance problem in the map, I think my time would be spent better doing other things instead of trying to overcome (what appears to be) an insurmountable problem.
Try this and see how much fun it is when you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>Quite true. No disagreement. But, I think, the results will be 1 of 2 things: (1) You win and then think it's because the opponent was just a weak player (therefore, the victory is a bit diminished) or (2) You lose and feel it's due to the map and wish you had spent the time doing something else.

NOW, if I played on a map that held benefits for one person while harming MY game/position and I won that game and it was Asmala, I'd probably get so swell-headed NO one could stand me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Slynky

February 23rd, 2004, 07:44 PM

As usual, Geo, better words than I could assemble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Asmala

February 23rd, 2004, 09:06 PM

Renegade, I see your opponent has uploaded a turn after you message. I put the game on fully automatic. Let's see if that helps.

DavidG

February 24th, 2004, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by geoschmo:

Not all Se4 has to be competative. You can have fun role playing or whatever. But the idea of Koth and the Se4 Ratings systems are for competition. Testing one anothers skill against each other. If the players cannot be given at least semi-equal playing fields, it's not test of skill any longer but who gets the luckier start. Getting lucky is fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Oh well guess I'm the only one who liked the kinder gentler KOTH of days gone by.

Paul1980au

February 24th, 2004, 01:05 AM

You know having events effect the gameplay can make one unlucky or lucky. In my latest game vs the AI ive had a few medical plagues - have a ship for each 3 systems that can quickly move to problem areas.

1 planet explode but that is good considering my planets number around 88. Also had a ship constuction base get warped to a random unsettled map point (it had some population and sats on board) therefore being on the other end of the 255 system map i was able to build a few colonies and expand from the top left and bottom right corner. Its good to attack 1 big enemy from both fronts - they are really pushing themselves to combat my multi front attack. Perhaps a smarter AI would help

taterbill

February 24th, 2004, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by taterbill:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by parabolize:
My tesco map looks the same lots and lots of medium none atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill <hr /></blockquote>H2 rock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
but I will restart if you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>Parabolize,

In the name of kinder, gentler, KOTH, and for the sake of the 17 turns we got in yesterday, let's just keep going. When I lose I can just blame it on the map.

taterbill

Renegade 13

February 24th, 2004, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Renegade, I see your opponent has uploaded a turn after you message. I put the game on fully automatic. Let's see if that helps. Thanks a lot Asmala. I emailed him and he said he wouldn't be able to do turns on weekends, so I'm not sure if fully automatic is such a good idea. However, he said some days he could do more than one turn a day, so maybe it'll balance itself out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We'll see.

taterbill

February 24th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Parabolize,

What just happened? I uploaded a turn, then immediately downloaded the next turn, and it's like the AI has played a turn for me. I suddenly have all kinds of crappy AI designs, and worse yet, they are all half finished at all my shipyards. My ships are suddenly going all over the place, I wasted a turn of research, etc. Arrrggghhh!

Did the same thing happen to you, or was it just me?

taterbill

parabolize

February 24th, 2004, 04:28 AM

taterbill

February 24th, 2004, 04:42 AM

OK, I'm gonna throw in the towel. First the map, now this... You wouldn't believe how stupidly designed my new half-finished fleet is! Oh well.

I do always turn off the AI ministers, but this one time I forgot. Figures.

Good luck Parabolize. You win w/o firing a shot.

I do believe there are serious issues w/ your maps Tesco. I think they'll be fine as long as both players chose Rock. Otherwise, they're toast.

Asmala, please leave me off the board for a while. I'm actually having more fun in my multi-player games.

Thanks.

parabolize

February 24th, 2004, 04:52 AM

taterbill
you dont want to restart?

taterbill

February 24th, 2004, 06:30 AM

Thanks for the offer, but I really think I should not, at least for now. I've probably over-commited myself to multiplayer games, plus I've got some real life issues coming up, like getting taxes done, spring break vacation, etc. Accept your good fortune and keep climbing!

And Tesco, I don't mean to sound too critical. The map I saw seemed nicely balanced, if both players were the same homeworld type. Perhaps that should become a KOTH house rule.

No hard feelings anywhere...

Bill

Asmala

February 24th, 2004, 09:17 PM

Koth page is updated.

Asmala

February 24th, 2004, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Thanks a lot Asmala. I emailed him and he said he wouldn't be able to do turns on weekends, so I'm not sure if fully automatic is such a good idea. However, he said some days he could do more than one turn a day, so maybe it'll balance itself out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We'll see. I changed the turn time to three days so he shouldn't have any problems.

tesco samoa

February 24th, 2004, 10:03 PM

hi taterbill. THat issue is being addressed. As per the other thread and the previous Posts on the none take over of the universe. Still needs to be tested but each system has the same amount of facilities per atmopshere/planet type. This to me is the fairest of them all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

David G... a good koth game is to ask for the other players empire and you both use the same one.

tesco samoa

February 24th, 2004, 10:04 PM

I am sorry for ruining a few games in koth and Ratings.

Simon

parabolize

February 24th, 2004, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I am sorry for ruining a few games in koth and Ratings.

Simon You did say the magic words: TEST OUT
I liked the starting position and all the warp points.

Slynky

February 25th, 2004, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I am sorry for ruining a few games in koth and Ratings.

Simon You did say the magic words: TEST OUT
I liked the starting position and all the warp points. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, the warp points in my game looked interesting...a bit of change from the usual.

taterbill

February 25th, 2004, 03:37 AM

Tesco,

You didn't really ruin it for me... I really don't think I was that far behind and I was about to start studying Rock colonization, that would have leveled things out a bit. It was my dumb mistake uploading an old turn and leaving my AI ministers on that discouraged me to the point of bagging it...

Parabolize, how many points did you have on the Last turn? I had 260K.

taterbill

taterbill

February 25th, 2004, 03:43 AM

Also meant to say...

I appreciate your hard work putting together all the maps. Some well balanced maps will be a great aid to the KOTH and Ratings players. Just a bit of tweaking and they'll be perfect!

Like I said, no hard feelings!

taterbill

Slynky

February 25th, 2004, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by taterbill:
Parabolize,

What just happened? I uploaded a turn, then immediately downloaded the next turn, and it's like the AI has played a turn for me. I suddenly have all kinds of crappy AI designs, and worse yet, they are all half finished at all my shipyards. My ships are suddenly going all over the place, I wasted a turn of research, etc. Arrrggghhh!

Did the same thing happen to you, or was it just me?

taterbill Think back, Tater, and see if this might be what happened. This has happened between Lord Chane and I a few times and I think we figured it out to this error:

Parabolize had his turn uploaded already. You then unloaded yours...but the site just sat there. You, thinking it wasn't doing anything, clicked on the Upload button again. THEN what happened was your first turn went and the site started processing the turn. What you didn't know what that you sent the same turn twice. So, you left the site and started looking at your turn. Meanwhile, Parabolize finishes his turn and submits. Bingo, the turn runs because all files are ready only yours is the same turn file you sent before.

If this might be the answer to your question my advice is this: NEVER click the Upload button again. Have patience. Or exit the site and come back in and see if it has registered your turn.

taterbill

February 25th, 2004, 03:56 AM

Actually, I think it's quite likely I hit the upload button twice, but not because I was impatient. I think I actually made the dumb mistake of trying to play SE4 and carry on an intelligent conversation with my wife at the same time. Can't be done... Boy, am I going to miss her! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

parabolize

February 25th, 2004, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by taterbill:
Tesco,

You didn't really ruin it for me... I really don't think I was that far behind and I was about to start studying Rock colonization, that would have leveled things out a bit. It was my dumb mistake uploading an old turn and leaving my AI ministers on that discouraged me to the point of bagging it...

Parabolize, how many points did you have on the Last turn? I had 260K.

taterbill 267.4 points
52 planets

Slynky

February 25th, 2004, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by taterbill:
I think I actually made the dumb mistake of trying to play SE4 and carry on an intelligent conversation with my wife at the same time. Can't be done... Boy, am I going to miss her! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif LOL...Boy, do I know that story! When I start a turn that I know will be 20-30 minutes, I allow about 2 interruptions...then I give her that "look" and say, "Baby....". She now knows what that means. Doesn't make her happy but it's best for all concerned...I told her once that SHE was the reason I lost a game because of distractions.

Grandpa Kim

February 25th, 2004, 05:04 AM

From Slynky:
.I told her once that SHE was the reason I lost a game because of distractions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif And yet you live to tell the tale! Amazing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

taterbill

February 25th, 2004, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by parabolize:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by taterbill:
Tesco,

You didn't really ruin it for me... I really don't think I was that far behind and I was about to start studying Rock colonization, that would have leveled things out a bit. It was my dumb mistake uploading an old turn and leaving my AI ministers on that discouraged me to the point of bagging it...

Parabolize, how many points did you have on the Last turn? I had 260K.

taterbill 267.4 points
52 planets <hr /></blockquote>I had 260.5 with only 27 planets. The beauty of being gaseous! So actually, it really was pretty dang close. I thought it was, I think I was briefly in first place no more than 5 or 6 turns before the end.

[ February 25, 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: taterbill ]

Gandalph

February 26th, 2004, 01:39 AM

KOTH Gandalph vs. Gozguy
Stardate 2410.9

Gozguy has surrendered. Great game Gozguy. I wonder why you got fighter tech so late? They turned out to be rather ineffective. Once I got troops and started taking your colonies, I did not find much resistance.

This game was close for some time as I believe we both had resource problems, at least I know I did. Managing resources was a pain right from the start. I had to put building on hold almost every turn and figure out exactly what needed to be built. That problem finally went away once I researched and started colonizing Ice worlds.

Anyway, thanks for the game. I enjoyed strategizing against you.

Asmala, move me up please.

Slynky

February 26th, 2004, 02:53 AM

109 turns, guys. Must have been some give and take. Sounds like it was a good game.

Gozra

February 26th, 2004, 01:19 PM

Yes money was a problem in the game for me also. If I had 3 more turns I think I could have invaded your home system Gandolph.The game was anyones up until about turn 80 or so Then I was playing catchup and simply could not catch you. Until again
Gozguy

Asmala

February 26th, 2004, 10:10 PM

Koth page is updated.

geoschmo

February 27th, 2004, 06:12 PM

Ah well, that's it then. I have surendered to Asmala on turn 51. Can't say I am suprised, as I fully expected to get beat. I made things worse by making a couple critical errors. I took a chance and went with merchant (for the maint bonus) instead of berzerkers. Asmala made me pay dearly for that one. And I compounded the error by somehow forgetting to research sensors for a long time. I had ECM, just forgot about sensors. I remembered when I realized I couldn't hit his ships for anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Doh!

Ah well, put me back at the bottom Asmala. I shall return! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Slynky

February 27th, 2004, 07:30 PM

I kept looking at the game, Geo. When I saw it at 50 turns this morning, I thought, "Hmmmm, the game's at 50 turns, that's not bad against Asmala...I wonder if he's surprising Asmala."

Then I see your post.

Live and learn, I guess. In the beginning, it seems EVERY item in research is screaming for attention and sometimes a quick click of the mouse results in a choice we [don't] understand later.

For the both of you, I hope the map turned out being as fair as it could be. As I said, or implied, when I place starting points, I don't place them as far away as possible. I think finding a "happy" medium point that gives an appropriate amount of systems between you (based on the map size), yet room behind you, will keep each player guessing just HOW close you are to each other.

[ February 27, 2004, 17:37: Message edited by: Slynky ]

geoschmo

February 27th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Actually Asmala, on second thought, take me off the hill for a while. I need a break right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

geoschmo

February 27th, 2004, 07:32 PM

The map was great Slynky. Thanks a lot.

Asmala

February 27th, 2004, 09:17 PM

The final big battle was, well, it was a slaughter. I had ~30 ships, Geoschmo had 40-50. None of my ships got even a scratch when Geo lost all of his ships. That's not a big wonder, I had CS 2, ECM 2, fully trained ships and fleet and berzerker against Geo's untrained (?) sensorless merchant ships.

It was a surprise to me that the game ended. Before the final battle I thought over if I should go after Geo's fleet or turn back to upgrade CS 3 and ECM 3. Afterwards it's easy to say it would have been useless to go back to upgrade.

The map was great, thanks to Slynky. We both got galaxy parts of equal size (about). What I wondered when Geo surrendered to me was that he had colonized only a bit over half of his half.

geoschmo

February 27th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
What I wondered when Geo surrendered to me was that he had colonized only a bit over half of his half. Easy answer, I suck.

I never cease to be amazed at your ability to outcolonize me by orders of magnitude in every game we have played. It's as if you get to play two turns for every one I do, and have four times as many resources to play with. I know this is not the case, merely my own perception due to my pitiful lack of ability.

In this game I had even stated at one point that I felt I was doing a pretty good job in expanding. Obviously I have no concept of what it is to truly expand. Then when we made contact I had to devote some amount of my resources to try and build enough ships to deal with yours. This was a hopeless task because of the variances in combat modifiers.

My ships in the Last battle were trained, but not completely.

I truely cannot comprehend how I can be so much worse then you in every aspect of the game. But I acknowledge it as a self-evident fact.

You are the master.

Asmala

February 27th, 2004, 09:28 PM

So it's me and Spoon next. I've never played against him but a player with 0 losses is a rare thing in a King match. Spoon, what settings you'd prefer?

We'd also need a GM for this game. Any takers?

Slynky

February 27th, 2004, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
So it's me and Spoon next. I've never played against him but a player with 0 losses is a rare thing in a King match. Spoon, what settings you'd prefer?

We'd also need a GM for this game. Any takers? Well, Geo's a bit free at the moment and since he used to do KOTH, I'd bow to him if he wanted to. And since it appears no one was upset with the maps and placements I did, I'd volunteer again if there was no one else popping up.

geoschmo

February 27th, 2004, 10:07 PM

You can do it Slynky.

spoon

February 27th, 2004, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Asmala:
Spoon, what settings you'd prefer?
Fairly standard -- no ruins, no events, Good starting planet. Looking forward to the game, from what everyone says, you're the Man to Beat!

[ February 27, 2004, 20:19: Message edited by: spoon ]

Asmala

February 27th, 2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by spoon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Asmala:
Spoon, what settings you'd prefer?
Fairly standard -- no ruins, no events, Good starting planet. Looking forward to the game, from what everyone says, you're the Man to Beat! <hr /></blockquote>Those are OK for me. What about map, default (small spiral arm) or Balanced?

spoon

February 27th, 2004, 10:29 PM

Aren't there problems still being worked out with the Balanced maps?

Stone Mill

February 27th, 2004, 10:38 PM

Goodness gracious, just catching up on the updates.

[bows to Asmala] Congrats and well done, Sir! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And Geo making a hard run for the throne!! Superb.

Slynky

February 28th, 2004, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by spoon:
Aren't there problems still being worked out with the Balanced maps? I think the Balanced maps he is speaking of is generated by the Geo mod. Take a look around for Geo's comments on it (I did a review it in a thread I can't remember). Basically, there is NO advantage in taking any atmosphere/colony type. You will find the exact number of planets in EVERY system for each type. Also, they will ALL be 100%, 100%, 100%.

I will assume, since no one said anything else, that I will set up the game. I will use any map type that you two agree upon.

You may read further down on how I decide on starting points. I spent about 30 minutes picking a map for Asmala's Last game and adjusting starting points for the best balance I could imagine I would want for a game.

If you chose to have a random map generated by the game, I will generate over and over till I find one that looks interesting. Then, I will save it and look at it in the editor. I will look for balanced starting points. If the generated map doesn't yield a good position for each...nebulas, equal points out of the home system, etc., I will do another one...and look again.

Making a map that gives as much equal chance to 2 players playing for the crown is an important task to me. It's easier with the Balance Mod by Geo. But if you chose a random map...I will look for unequal nebula placement, asteroid placement, access to the center, etc. as I can when I decide a map is good to both players. I will NOT evaluate percentages, sizes, atmospheres, etc. when using a randomly generated map. I will make sure that the starting systems have lots of planets, warp points exiting are equal, and that, as much as possible, there will be colonizable planets within 2 jumps away from each home system. Just so you each understand, if the second jump from a home system results in a nebula, I will make sure the second jump from the other person's system has a nebula, too. (or asteroids...you know what I mean...a WORTHLESS system for colonizeing)

Slynky

February 28th, 2004, 06:18 AM

To shorten my previous response:

(1) I consider it a privalege to set up a map for an important game;

(2) My goal is as much equality as I can find in a map...even if I have to get map after map;

(3) Make it an interesting map.

When the game is over, my hope is that the loser will not complain the map was unequal.

There!

[EDIT] PS: Game is set up under 1.91 (if that matters)

[ February 28, 2004, 04:24: Message edited by: Slynky ]

spoon

February 28th, 2004, 07:52 AM

Ah, gotcha Slynky - thanks for the detailed response -- I was thinking of the Tesco maps, not the Geo mod.
Asmala - do you have a preference? I think I'd rather go with the standard map style (with Slynky's loving balance-checking), but I could be convinced otherwise if you want to go with the Geo style maps.

Asmala

February 28th, 2004, 11:11 AM

Yes I meant Geo's Balanced mod but since you'd prefer normal we'd take a standard map.

One more thing Spoon, do you want this to be a rated game?

spoon

February 29th, 2004, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by Asmala:
One more thing Spoon, do you want this to be a rated game? Sure, if you don't mind squaring off against an as-of-yet unrated player...I'd hate to have your rating drop too severely after I glass your worlds and sell your populations into slavery.

Phoenix-D

February 29th, 2004, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by spoon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Asmala:
One more thing Spoon, do you want this to be a rated game? Sure, if you don't mind squaring off against an as-of-yet unrated player...I'd hate to have your rating drop too severely after I glass your worlds and sell your populations into slavery. <hr /></blockquote>You could always arrange a challenge or two to get that rating in a better spot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Slynky

February 29th, 2004, 07:23 AM

Spoon it UP!

King of the Hill game underway!

Small spiral map;
1 good starting planet;
2K racial points;
V 1.91;
All else KOTH default.

Balanced placement...randomly generated map.

We expect updates http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Good luck to all!

(I will be available all day tomorrow if there are any problems)

Slick

February 29th, 2004, 07:26 AM

So when is the King going to give us his "State of the Hill Address" ???

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Slick.

Slynky

February 29th, 2004, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Slick:
So when is the King going to give us his "State of the Hill Address" ???

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Slick. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

David E. Gervais

February 29th, 2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by Slick:
So when is the King going to give us his "State of the Hill Address" ???

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Slick. And don't forget the 'History of Kings" needs to be updated as well.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo

February 29th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Yes, I haven't forgotten the book of kings. Just need to sit down long enough to write the new chapter.

Asmala

March 1st, 2004, 05:53 PM

I'll be away till Saturday so no updates before that.

Slynky

March 6th, 2004, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Asmala:
I'll be away till Saturday so no updates before that. Wow!

You sure know how to kill a thread! Since you left, there's not been one post here. A bit unusual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

narf poit chez BOOM

March 6th, 2004, 07:07 AM

i killed the 'forum story' thread with one post. and it only had the first post when i posted.

Slynky

March 6th, 2004, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
i killed the 'forum story' thread with one post. and it only had the first post when i posted. Might be the hammer, narf http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (gotta watch that thing and weild it with care http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Slynky

March 6th, 2004, 07:29 AM

Just another way to look at the KOTH standings (percentages listed for those completing 3 games or more).

Got tired of seeing myself near the top just because I play a lot.

http://se4-gaming.net\images\KOTH.jpg

[ March 06, 2004, 05:30: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Alneyan

March 6th, 2004, 10:25 AM

I cannot see the image Slynky. (Hmm, strange, I seem to recall I never managed to see your images while they worked fine for other people) Is the URL the following? http://se4-gaming.net/images/koth.jpg

Renegade 13

March 6th, 2004, 09:05 PM

Asmala, could you please turn off timed turns for the KOTH game I'm playing vs. Dav? I got a request from him that we do not have timed turns, and I don't see any reason to have them on. Although he isn't exactly prompt about getting his turns in....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Thanks.

spoon

March 6th, 2004, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Slynky:
Just another way to look at the KOTH standings (percentages listed for those completing 3 games or more).Yes, this looks much better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Slynky

March 7th, 2004, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by spoon:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
Just another way to look at the KOTH standings (percentages listed for those completing 3 games or more).Yes, this looks much better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>LOL, now THERE'S an unbiased opinion if ever I read one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Slynky

March 7th, 2004, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I cannot see the image Slynky. (Hmm, strange, I seem to recall I never managed to see your images while they worked fine for other people) Is the URL the following? http://se4-gaming.net/images/KOTH.jpg I won't swear to this, but since I capitalized koth to KOTH, you might need to change the tail end to KOTH.jpg (as I did above).

This is strange since you can see the website.

Alneyan

March 7th, 2004, 02:31 AM

And here it works! Thanks Slynky, in the URL given by my broswer it wasn't capitalized. (Actually, it was looking for http://se4-gaming.net\images\koth.jpg. No typo, it was \ instead of /) Don't ask me why it was so though.

Asmala

March 7th, 2004, 11:04 AM

I'm back now.

Renegade, I put the game on ALPU.

Renegade 13

March 7th, 2004, 06:44 PM

Thanks Asmala http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Iansidious

March 7th, 2004, 10:10 PM

Asmala, my king(I see no wrong with kissing up). Do you or any one else plan on changing any of the K.O.T.H games to Version 1.91(like Gravey vs. Hustler)? Thanks!

Asmala

March 7th, 2004, 10:44 PM

Versions of KOTH games are changed by PBW admins if players want. Do you both agree in Gravey vs Hustler game to update it?

gravey101

March 8th, 2004, 12:05 AM

No definitely not for me just yet. I am unable to upgrade right now as I'm waiting for a replacement Gold CD. I'll let you know when I ready. Hopefully early this week.

[ March 07, 2004, 22:05: Message edited by: gravey101 ]

Iansidious

March 8th, 2004, 01:39 AM

[ March 07, 2004, 23:42: Message edited by: Iansidious ]

Iansidious

March 8th, 2004, 01:39 AM

Just let me know when you are updated.

[ March 07, 2004, 23:44: Message edited by: Iansidious ]

Iansidious

March 8th, 2004, 01:40 AM

I hate it when I push the wrong button and double post! sorry

[ March 07, 2004, 23:45: Message edited by: Iansidious ]

Alneyan

March 8th, 2004, 09:20 PM

KOTH: The Primitive Horde (Primitive) against the Arcadia League (Alneyan). Turn 65 or so. Settings were: a rather large galaxy, high tech cost, everything else default.

Primitive did the first blood, taking down a colony ship or two and likely a planet as well. (Afterwards warships went down to his nasty trick, or were damaged at the very best) After these initial skirmishes, the map was pretty well shared in two, with the Evil Ones in the north/north east and the Primitive Ones at the other end of the galaxy. Nothing too surprising, as we were both using the same scheme for expanding our influence (unless Primitive did altered his plan since the Last discussion on the forum about early expansion). In the end, there were about five or six contested systems, in three corners of the galaxy.

The League retaliated by building a few ships to begin the negociations and swiftly remove the Primitive Horde from a few contested systems. However, all of these were critical failures, being destroyed by minefields bigger than expected or by enemy fleets none too friendly. Worse, Primitive took a few minesweepers and outdated warships from the League, which were not outfitted with the Self Destruct Device due to protests from the crews of the aforementioned ships. Erh, let's just say I forgot to retrofit these ships, it will be closer to reality.

The League did not fret after her first initial plans backfired, and instead cheerfully kept up with producing warships to throw against the Primitive Horde. It goes without saying that a handful of these were once again lost, and the Fiendish Primitive managed to convince the League to withdraw peacefully from a few systems. (The fleets headed towards the aforementioned systems might have help for this peaceful resolution though)

As history tends to repeat itself, so the League lost a few more battles at wormholes, defeated by superior numbers, treachery and the bribing of some officials. Other do argue that the Primitive Horde won merely thanks to much more efficient tactics, but the gentle reader should not pay any attention to these vile lies. (Actually, I hadn't expected to lose so badly. I will ask Primitive about the why at the earliest convenience, but I'm afraid he will not let me in the secret until the end of the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But I fear I know the answer, unfortunately) To the pride of the League, a few engagements were won however, and two systems were freed from the Horde. Once again, the scandalmongers are minded to think that taking down two enemy planets isn't exactly worth losing fifty warships and several systems, but they know naught about military strategy.

The League, in a pretty poor position, can only pride herself of her lead as far as score goes, as she took the first position at turn 35 or so and has remained ahead since then. One might question the truth of these rankings when losses follow slaughters, but being ahead in a field can never hurt. To handle this situation going out of hand, the League decided to take chances and launched a massive technological problem aiming at both keeping up with the foe and bringing Stellar Manipulation ships Online as soon as possible.

Thus the very first warp opener was out as early as turn 55 (recall the peculiar settings of the game) and its intent was to start wreaking havoc behind the enemy lines. Likewise, other ships were out the following months, or they should have been if an enemy operative had not sabotaged the spaceyards in which they were built. This unfortunate perfidy resulted in an additional delay of several months, while the enemy fleets were closing in with our very worlds in the meantime. (Actually I forgot to launch Emergency Build for several turns. I gather I deserve my dunce's cap. Yes, I will go stand in the corner as soon as I am finished typing this report.)

And so here is the current situation. The Primitive Ones are ahead and achieving critical successes at the borders, while the League went for technological superiority and played her gambit. Will these advanced ships and the economical powerhouse supporting the League be able to turn the tables? The circumstances do not bode well, but you may very well be able to help the League! Please enlist in the nearest recruiting center if you feel this patriotic blaze within your very own heart, and you may very well be the one saving our Beloved League! Yes, you! The League is undergoing her finest hour, and calls all her children to protect her in her direst need! (Erh, I am digressing, but it does reflect the current situation. Unless you can provide a miracle, Primitive will reach the Top of the Hill and will likely challenge Asmala if you ask me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Phoenix-D

March 8th, 2004, 09:29 PM

K.O.T.H. Katchoo vs Phoenix-D, 2406.4; Katchoo surrenders.

This was on one of the Tesco maps, with lots of Rock None medium moons. Fortunately neither of us took that type. The map also had warp points..lots and lots of warp points. The resulting geometry scared the crap out of me early game, because it made defense difficult.

So I went for speed and dropped a lot of weapons platforms along the way. In the end I think that's what made the difference- I captured more systems faster; Katchoo filled his systems up, I concentrated on getting as MANY systems with 1 or more colonies as I could. It helps when in the end-game your ships are speed 9 (JP + prop. experts) while your opponents are speed 6 (ion engines)..

He also listened to Fyron a little too much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Didn't deploy a single weapon platform. the result was my fleets running unchecked except by his fleets, while several of his fleets were bLasted apart by my platforms.

Asmala

March 8th, 2004, 10:22 PM

Koth page is updated.

We have a new player: Welcome Zharktas!

Katchoo

March 8th, 2004, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
K.O.T.H. Katchoo vs Phoenix-D, 2406.4; Katchoo surrenders.

This was on one of the Tesco maps, with lots of Rock None medium moons. Fortunately neither of us took that type. The map also had warp points..lots and lots of warp points. The resulting geometry scared the crap out of me early game, because it made defense difficult.

So I went for speed and dropped a lot of weapons platforms along the way. In the end I think that's what made the difference- I captured more systems faster; Katchoo filled his systems up, I concentrated on getting as MANY systems with 1 or more colonies as I could. It helps when in the end-game your ships are speed 9 (JP + prop. experts) while your opponents are speed 6 (ion engines)..Well, my bubble certainly burst once my Fleet of 14 Frigates & Escorts got slapped aside by Phoenix's Weapons Platforms. Watching those Ships fall as every single shot from the WPs struck (none missed that I could tell) was like a hot knife slowly digging into my heart. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I've tried Phoenix's strategy of placing 1 Colony in as many Systems as possible in a previous game with MasterBelisarius; and fell flat on my face in that game. So in this matchup with Phoenix I secured as many Colonies in a System that I could before moving outward. The strategy seemed to work as my Resource & Research Points grew steadily, and I didn't encounter the early resource shortages I did against MB.

He also listened to Fyron a little too much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Didn't deploy a single weapon platform. the result was my fleets running unchecked except by his fleets, while several of his fleets were bLasted apart by my platforms.Now that I think about it, I don't think I deployed WPs soon enough against MB either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I made building ship hulls the priority over other defenses, so that when the time came to attack Phoenix, i'd have number superiority.

Unfortunately Phoenix didn't conduct his Research in the path I expected him too. Right from the outset I pumped all my research into Sheilds; reason being that I wanted to negate any advatage Phoenix could get if he researched PPBs. Once I reached level 5 Shields, I stopped to start researching Combat Support & Sensors, along with Hulls & APBs inbetween (having seen that Phoenix had Destroyers & level 5 DUCs). Although I had plenty of Frigate Hulls ready for retrofitting, I didn't have enough minerals to upgrade all of them. Thus by the time Phoenix started to pick off my Planets, I could only upgrade 4-6 Ships per turn. Add in the problem that my Ships couldn't intercept his Ships in any reasonable amount of time, and quite soon I was in trouble. Planets started rioting and my resource base went to hell (along with all of my research). My Frigates couldn't matchup 1on1 with his Destroyers, so I had to pool my Ships together, which meant that I couldn't intercept all of his Ships which were all over the place.

Needless to say, the bird pecked me but good.

Oh, and in the final couple of turns he started assaulting me with Intel Projects. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix, congratulations again on thumping me but good. Don't fall back down to the bottom of the ladder anytime soon please.

PS, Fyron's name shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as my mess. There's only enough tar a feathers for me, and me alone.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Phoenix-D

March 9th, 2004, 02:08 AM

That intel assult took about a year to do, actually. I was getting parinoid because your score was higher than mine, and with 50% intel I needed to have CI up -before- you attacked if I was to survive it. Once I had a decent base and no attacks came..well, the answer was obvious.

The game was a bit insane..I had retrofit problems too. Even into the Last battles I was fighting with ships that were 2, 3 models out of date. I don't bother retrofitting, ussually- I do suicide missions instead. Which is why I almost panicked when I warped into your home system and saw "40" over your home world..

Paul1980au

March 9th, 2004, 02:56 AM

This was interesting - you got lucky with that Intel project Phoneix and good work - the slow but sure expansion usaually works against the AI, the only alternative i use is to settle into new systems quickly with lots of green star planets (they of course are better in terms of resources and potential) lots of defenses are maintained. It also expands my systems faster and fastre contact with new races and if i am rock and i come into contact with gas and ice types - i exchange 10K of minerals and propulsion tech for their other colony types - it is way to easy. ALso capturing some of their planets - take away their populations to settle youre other atmosphere and take advantage of the native population and the removal of domes.

Missile and projectile and point defense weapons are the early reserach projects.

Slynky

March 9th, 2004, 03:01 AM

Now, THERE are some excellent write-ups! I find those interesting to read. Entertaining.

Of course, I must still question my spy friend from France who seems to do a better job at whipping out a story in his second language than I do in my native tongue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .

Welldone, Phoenix-D, Katchoo, and Alneyan!

primitive

March 9th, 2004, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
KOTH: The Primitive Horde (Primitive) against the Arcadia League (Alneyan). Turn 65 or so. Settings were: a rather large galaxy, high tech cost, everything else default.

...... lotsa mumba jumba .......

Unless you can provide a miracle, Primitive will reach the Top of the Hill and will likely challenge Asmala if you ask me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) Kudos to Alneyan for a well executed strategy so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

His constant nagging of �Oh, I don�t have a chance against the mighty Horde� and �Oh, made a crucial mistake that cost me the Last tiny bit of hope I ever had� worked like a breeze. The Primitive one became well buttered up and became lazy, never wondering why Alneyans ships never seemed to get more advanced. Not once did the thought �wonder where he spends his research points ?� make a guest appearance in the dim-witted barbarians brain.

Needless to say I was quite surprised when a warphole appeared and some small fleets started the slow march towards my home system. Luckily for me the fleets are not too large and would be low on supplies so it don�t stray too much from the shortest path. The first is still one jump away from the Hordes lair and I may or may not get enough defences ready to stop it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Meanwhile the Horde are pushing forward at the regular borders, glassing many and capturing a few planets on the way. It�s still a long way to go before I reach Alneyans central systems (Huge Tesco map) so if he can control his happiness levels this one can go on for a long time yet.

Still a lot to play for and this game is far form over. One thing is for sure though; I won�t make the mistake of underestimating the snickering one again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

gravey101

March 9th, 2004, 03:02 PM

I've upgraded to the latest patch so my KOTH game can be upgraded whenever convenient.

Alneyan

March 9th, 2004, 03:10 PM

We shall see how it plays out Primitive, but be warned of the trump card! I recently learnt the Summon Asmala spell, and thanks to this powerful invocation the League should save the day. I can daydream, can't I?

Let's see if the gambit can actually prove to be successful, along with a few other surprises, which I will not mention lest I should spoil the fun for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Why, I thought our 2vs2 game was supposed to revel any doubt about my status Slynky. Somehow you are stil questioning my word though, in spite of your little inquiry concerning my true erh... occupation. It will be my sad duty to report this behaviour to the agency and... No, I swear it was a mere lapsus and not a confession.

Iansidious

March 9th, 2004, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by gravey101:
I've upgraded to the latest patch so my KOTH game can be upgraded whenever convenient. I'm ready also. On with the upgrade!

Slynky

March 10th, 2004, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Alneyan:
We shall see how it plays out Primitive, but be warned of the trump card! I recently learnt the Summon Asmala spell, and thanks to this powerful invocation the League should save the day. I can daydream, can't I?

Let's see if the gambit can actually prove to be successful, along with a few other surprises, which I will not mention lest I should spoil the fun for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Regardless of how the game comes out, I suspect you have gained a bit of respect. I see a good player in you...kind of like an Asmala in training but with a bit more eccentricity (and who types more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Alneyan

March 10th, 2004, 04:33 PM

Am I talkative? Nay, I merely romance what could be summed up in a few sentences and... Granted, I attempt to play tricks over the Primitive One mind, but that's all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Still, thanks Slynky, but do not speak too much about it lest Primitive should become wary. After all, who knows, a window of opportunity might still appear, giving me free leave to turn the tables. Taking him by surprise seems to have worked in this regard at Last, even if the military wasn't exactly able to exploit this situation. But I do digress.

On a (not so) competely unrelated topic, would it be allowed to use the 10 wormholes per system rule to protect a few systems from warp openers and other annoying things along the same lines? Obviously, there should always be at least a way to reach any colony, and it would be almost impossible to ward all your systems but one in such a manner. Still, preventing from unwanted entrances behind the lines could be useful, if given the time to do so. Thanks for the answer!