Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?

[se5a]

not fair! pheonix is on his 2nd game since I played him, and I havent even met my oponent in my first game since we played...
what happens if the 48hrs happens and he still hasnt played his turn?

[Phoenix-D]

You stop complaining and look at the record for longest game time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

My second game took on the order of several -months- to complete, and it wasn't that long turn wise.

[se5a]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

hey, I just realised, I managed to get the 2000th post!!!

[Nodachi]

Electrum vs Nodachi

2400.5 - First Contact

Interesting? This could prove to be messy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Alneyan]

2403.2 The Arcadia League (Alneyan) against the EEEvil EEEmpire (Baron Grazic)

"Insanity at its best. We are puzzled by the behiavour of these... EEE beings. They do not seem to make any sense, no wonder since they pretend to be insane. But why would one say she is insane? Lunatics usually do not admit they are lunatics, unless they treat this trait as a quality. But why?

We can communicate with them, but nobody is able to decipher their babble and their ravings. Yet their speech can be fathomed, while their actions are indescriptible. We have seen them sending ships loaded with civilians against our own ships, and their main goal is to take control of wormholes. Such strategies were unheard of by the League until this encounter, and we were far from being ready to face such a threat for the very existence of galaxy and all civilization as we knew it. But whether we win our struggle against these malicious invaders or not, this moment shall be know as our finest hour."

As you can see, Grazic outwitted me on the military side of the conflict. I reached the contested systems a turn or two after him, and I made a few mistakes here and there. I expected him to grab a slightly bigger part of the galaxy, which may be quite a problem.

I believe my economy is in a somewhat better shape than his, if I can assume he told me the truth that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But it won't help me much if my military keeps on losing badly.

Incidentally, this game has been very fun for now, and the exchanges between the Puzzling League and the Insane EEE. In fact, I have been more interested in the exchanges themselves than in the strategy for these few turns. I'm afraid it will not help my side though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Slynky]

No WAY English is your second language.

(a SPY...just as I figured!)

[Alneyan]

Well, English is technically a foreign tongue for me, although you could argue I am more at ease when writing or reading English.

However, your assumption about my... job cannot stand a thorough analysis. As the identity of a spy should remain secret for obvious reasons, you would have been disabled if you were right, or at least convinced not to talk about this classified information. Since you are still free to alude to my ... operations in the field, we can safely presume it either means you are wrong, or that we are so powerful that we believe nothing can stop us. I would think the former is the most likely, unless spies suffer from over-confidence.

[Nodachi]

But you neither denied nor confirmed it. Maybe you are a spy and are using reverse psychology! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Nodachi:
But you neither denied nor confirmed it. Maybe you are a spy and are using reverse psychology! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We've been over that before, Nodachi. He's too clever. But look on the bright side...if he's in France as a spy, he's spying on THEM...LOL!

[Alneyan]

Unless I lied about my location Slynky. You should keep this in mind, if I am a spy, then I can very well playing with your minds and told half-truths or blatant deceptions. I might even be a French spy spying on *you* Slynky, rather than the other way around.

Nodachi, I will once again use a very simple analysis. If I tell you I am not a spy, you will not believe me, and so you will still think I am a spy. If I say I am a spy, you will distrust me and you will think I am a spy. So in either case, the result is the same, so why should I answer your query? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Loser]

Here (http://www.gametheory.net/html/pop_reviews/Swingers.html) is a similar situation.

[Phoenix-D]

I think I just set a new record for fastest loss: 2400.5.

We started 6 sectors away. Yes, SECTORS, not systems. He went for warships, I went for colony ships. Enough said..

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
I think I just set a new record for fastest loss: 2400.5.

We started 6 sectors away. Yes, SECTORS, not systems. He went for warships, I went for colony ships. Enough said.. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? The game default is: Allowed to start in the same system = False. How did that happen, especially in a KOTH game…

[Phoenix-D]

One warp away. I started close to my side of the connecting warp point, and so did he.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
One warp away. I started close to my side of the connecting warp point, and so did he. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ouch.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Geckomlis:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
One warp away. I started close to my side of the connecting warp point, and so did he. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ouch. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup - makes me wish there was a way to ensure a minimum starting distance without having to manually place starting locations on a map...

At least the game was quick, heh.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:
Yup - makes me wish there was a way to ensure a minimum starting distance without having to manually place starting locations on a map...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Aaron is working on fixing that for the next patch. He tweaked it in the current beta patches, but it's not quite there yet. I have sent him another email and hopefully he can get it working right.

[Asmala]

Before the patch comes out I can offer a temporary solution. After I generate the map normally, I can save it, open it in map editor, put two starting points and load it in game. This ensures that there is enough distance between players.

[tesco samoa]

tesco vs rambie. Turn 64 Rambie surrenders.

Move Tesco up

[Nodachi]

Electrum vs Nodachi

Nodachi surrenders. The early first contact really messed up my game plan.

Electrum, congrats and I wish you well on your journey up the hill!

[Baron Grazic]

K.O.T.H. Grazic vs. Alneyan
EEEvil EEEmpire vs. Arcadia League 2403.5

So far the game is pretty much even, with the score changing hands often. A few minor battles have taken place, and I'm going to claim victory on the battle front, if only because the League is down 1 colony, and it took 3 ships and many turns for the League to take out our forward missile Escort.

There are 4 warp points between our 2 halves of the galaxy, and we are both doing a pretty good job of mining the galaxy in half. The north shared system is now completely cut off from both home worlds by opposition mines and in the south a couple of Arcadia League colony ships and escorts made it thru into our space before we could close the borders.

No technology edge has been shown yet, with both Empires still sporting Escorts, but since we have been low on all resources, we are assuming that the Arcadia League are ahead of us in this Category.

The EEEvil EEEmpire believes it has found its long lost brothers however with communication coming think and fast, with more insane trades being offer every turn. The chance of 2 completely insane empires being controlled by 2 insane leaders in the same sector in the galaxy must be in the billions, but in a infinite universe, it is not only possible, but probable.

[Asmala]

I'm on a trip now so don't expect any KOTH updates before Wednesday. I have an internet connection (as you can see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) but not the possibility to update KOTH or play turns.

[Electrum]

Re: KOTH Electrum v Nodachi

That early contact really messed it up. I had hoped we would have gotten more established first.
Thanks for the good, and fast turn-around game.

The Electrum

[Geckomlis]

K.O.T.H. Gecko vs Master Belisarius
2405.8

Gecko surrenders to Master Belisarius. Belisarius has a tech edge I can not catch up to and my colonies are going berserk… again. Thanks for a good thrashing, MB. I guess I am going to have to do the “KOTH Clone” if I want to be competitive in Ratings/KOTH against the experienced players. After a year and two-dozen PBW games of trying not to use the Clone, I give in to the inevitable.

Gecko

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Geckomlis:
K.O.T.H. Gecko vs Master Belisarius
2405.8

Gecko surrenders to Master Belisarius. Belisarius has a tech edge I can not catch up to and my colonies are going berserk… again. Thanks for a good thrashing, MB. I guess I am going to have to do the “KOTH Clone” if I want to be competitive in Ratings/KOTH against the experienced players. After a year and two-dozen PBW games of trying not to use the Clone, I give in to the inevitable.

Gecko <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Think in small galaxies (like in our first game), still do you have possibilities to win playing with your style...
But as was discused before, many people (me included) think most the time your luck in the game will be decided by the *.emp file.
Also, I believe that does exist an optimal way to design the *.emp... and the experience did the "Koth Clone".

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Geckomlis:
K.O.T.H. Gecko vs Master Belisarius
2405.8

Gecko surrenders to Master Belisarius. Belisarius has a tech edge I can not catch up to and my colonies are going berserk… again. Thanks for a good thrashing, MB. I guess I am going to have to do the “KOTH Clone” if I want to be competitive in Ratings/KOTH against the experienced players. After a year and two-dozen PBW games of trying not to use the Clone, I give in to the inevitable.

Gecko <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Think in small galaxies (like in our first game), still do you have possibilities to win playing with your style...
But as was discused before, many people (me included) think most the time your luck in the game will be decided by the *.emp file.
Also, I believe that does exist an optimal way to design the *.emp... and the experience did the "Koth Clone". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[spoon]

What is the "KOTH clone" setup?

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by spoon:
What is the "KOTH clone" setup? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be Aggressiveness & Defensiveness at 125% and a Berzerker Culture, which adds another +10 to attack and defense. This gives a +35 to attack and defense.

If you are unsure, in your next game, ask your opponent if they want to use exactly the same empire file. Tesco agreed to this early in my Koth career, which helped my empire setup experiance. Thanks Tesco. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 31, 2003, 03:42: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by spoon:
What is the "KOTH clone" setup? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be Aggressiveness & Defensiveness at 125% and a Berzerker Culture, which adds another +10 to attack and defense. This gives a +35 to attack and defense </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">KOTH: Attack of the Clones Thread
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=008085;p=3

[Phoenix-D]

As noted in that thread, it -is- possible to win without that setup, just harder.

My one long game, for example, was a vicious back and forth match. My opponent was beserker, I was not. Took many of mine to kill one of his, but I did eventually grind him into the ground.

At one point I killed a Legendary fleet (+30% at LEAST over my ships). Shows you that even nasty to-hit odds can be overcome.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
As noted in that thread, it -is- possible to win without that setup, just harder.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yea, you just need a high tolerance for getting spanked more times than not... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Almost every KOTH game I've played has been decided by weight of numbers, not racial attack/defense. In the games with a big racial difference it didn't matter because one side or the other had an absolutely obscene ship advantage.

[Master Belisarius]

Phoenix-D: When you talk about "absolutely obscene ship advantage", do you say that one side had lot more ships than the other?

IMHO the technology and number of ships are very important, but are not the only.

For example, I was in a battle when my opponent had ships with PPB IV, a large number of ships (100 BC), best shields and engines but similar Sensor and ECM than me.
In the other side, I had 20 LC ships with DUC. Well, my fleet did a carnage without loses...
Why? My ships had Stealth Armor III, Scattered Armor III, 20% trained fleet, 20% trained ships (most of them), Berzerker as culture, Aggressivenes 20% and Defensiveness 20%.
In the other side, my opponent had Aggressivenes "Weak" and Defensiveness "Pathetic", his culture was "Scientists" and his ships had not training.

The trick was that his 100 ships where unable to hit my ships, simple like that.

Then, I think that if your ships can't hit your enemy ships, then, you're in problems and probably you did a bad *.emp file...
Sure, you could try with fighters, seekers, boarding ships, train fleets and ships and still keep a fight... but you will be forced to play with a big disadvantage during all the game.

[Phoenix-D]

MB, by that I meant that the advantage in ships one side had was very high.

If things stack too much then yes, you're screwed. But look at the numbers- your .emp can provide a maxium of 35% (assuming you don't lower anything, whicb I agree is almost suicidal).

On the other hand, the defense on your ships can get as high as 160%, offense 105%. Training all by itself provides more benifit than your racial setup can do.

That 35% can hurt bad, but I'm not convinced points spent elsewhere couldn't compensate. More in research to get training faster, for example.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
MB, by that I meant that the advantage in ships one side had was very high.

If things stack too much then yes, you're screwed. But look at the numbers- your .emp can provide a maxium of 35% (assuming you don't lower anything, whicb I agree is almost suicidal).

On the other hand, the defense on your ships can get as high as 160%, offense 105%. Training all by itself provides more benifit than your racial setup can do.

That 35% can hurt bad, but I'm not convinced points spent elsewhere couldn't compensate. More in research to get training faster, for example. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">IMO, it depends on how much time pressure you are under. You can counter the KOTH Clone given time, but your opponent starts with the advantage immediately. The median game length in KOTH is 62 turns. You would have to be smoking on research to meet that deadline and get the tech into production ships in useful numbers.

[Slynky]

I've never used the "clone". Sometimes, I have been close to it but I'd have to say my average bonus in my KOTH games would be around 29-30%.

And, I do OK in KOTH (no steamroller mind you...but OK).

[Alneyan]

I admit I don't usually go to the full +35 or even +30, as I am partial to the Merchant culture. It may be a very bad idea, but I do prefer 120 maintenance (that is, a mere 5% upkeep) to a +10 to both offence and defence. Perhaps I should change my mind... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (Mind you, the almost nil upkeep is very nice, especially when under pressure or to take a small technological lead, but is it worth it? I wonder)

Not much is going on in our KOTH game, the Frontier is under control and there are still a few colonies here and there in enemy territory. (There are four systems in which both of us have colonies, and a few systems without any planets that are disputed.) There have been a few skirmishes involving some fighters and the EEEvil ships, but nothing on the grand scale.

However, an enemy fleet has been sighted in the southern systems and is threatening the League outer worlds. Likewise, one can assume the League has not been building civilian freighters in the mean time to do peaceful trading with the EEE, and so we can expect some battles in the next months. I believe we will have some surprises then, as we do not know what we have been doing with our research since there has been no true engagement between warships yet.

Even communications are almost silent, with a few taunts coming from the EEEvil EEEmpire from time to time, and a swift response from the Arcadia League. I reckon our war councils are too busy to prepare the upcoming battles to bother with communications and petty threats. Or they are bettering their insane ways, your choice.

So far, it has been a very enjoyable game and my best to date along with my match with Slynky. (The one where both players thought they were losing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) And this time, as my warships do not have a basic strategy of "Don't get hurt", I do hope to stand a chance, however slight it is, or else I will have to resolve to my adventurous ways once more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

My game with Dav has been on hold for awhile now. I don't know why it has been like this but I'm still waiting on his turns to be submitted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
But from what I remember of it I was winning and holding the majority of the galaxy.

[Asmala]

I'm back now and it's time to start wading through Messages I had waiting in my inbox. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[spoon]

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I admit I don't usually go to the full +35 or even +30, as I am partial to the Merchant culture. It may be a very bad idea, but I do prefer 120 maintenance <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I prefer merchant to bezerker too. Though I don't raise my maint reduction all the way to 115. Seems like the minerals advantage should even out the -12 to ship combat...

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Electrum:
Re: KOTH Electrum v Nodachi

That early contact really messed it up. I had hoped we would have gotten more established first.
Thanks for the good, and fast turn-around game.

The Electrum <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's the reason I offered I can put starting positions by hand. If you don't want to start near each other and don't want to use Tesco map just tell me.

[Asmala]

OK, KOTH page should be updated now but please inform me if I have missed something.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
My game with Dav has been on hold for awhile now. I don't know why it has been like this but I'm still waiting on his turns to be submitted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
But from what I remember of it I was winning and holding the majority of the galaxy. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I see he has just played a turn but I still send him a message that he should play faster.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Asmala:
I see he has just played a turn but I still send him a message that he should play faster. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, shortly after I posted that he played his turns. I guess he must have been lurking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It was kind of nice at times having the delay though as my life was hectic for a while. But now things have settled down alot and I'm back into a regular schedule. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Asmala]

I almost forgot: welcome two new players, Rand and Taikon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Asmala]

I don't usually take +35 offense and defense, those latest five percentages are so expensive I'd rather spent them elsewhere. Also I don't pick berzerker very often due to high penalties in other areas.

[Asmala]

Hmm, perhaps these Posts are enough for today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Hmm, perhaps these Posts are enough for today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What?! (but we missed you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
Hmm, perhaps these Posts are enough for today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What?! (but we missed you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Perhaps we weren't 'all' missing him. I was happily deluding myself that I was winning the Bash game against Asmala, he comes back and crushes my dreams of a victory over him. Nah, what am I talking about, even in my dreams he still beats me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Welcome Back.

[Slynky]

An interesting note/idea:

Just took a look at Primitive/Grandpa game. 57 turns. If Primitive hasn't won by now...hehe...maybe the old codger will get him yet!

Can't wait to see this result.

[Slynky]

Some (perhaps empty) pointers for KOTH players in case you didn't know.

First of all, I don't like to be presumptious but forgetting all that, I will offer some tips to the newer players in case they haven't thought of them. These may be small things but things I feel have gotten me as far as I have gotten. I don't want to sound like a genius 'cause people who know me know I'm not that great...just adequate.

(1) Design your colony ships with a variety of engines. There is no need to build a colony ship with 5 engines if the target planet is 5 sectors away...use the design with 3 engines on it 'cause it's going to take 2 turns to colonize it anyway. Of course, adjust this if you have taken "propulsion" as a trait. In other words, don't waste resources on engines if you don't need it.

(2) Don't settle the colony with the most facilities on it in the early game. Settle the one with a single or double fac ability. Build a SY immediately. Later, settle those 5 or 6 fac places and build minerals or resources as you need them. But get those "worthless" single fac places into shipyards as soon as possible.

(3) Spend a 1,000 points for ancient ability if you and your opponent don't agree to outlaw it. It's the best 1,000 points you can spend besides Advanced Storage. Why?

(a) If your opponent has the same colony type as you, you can watch his colony growth by clicking on the appropriate icon;
(b) You don't have to stop at unexplored warp points...keep moving to where you want to go and don't waste movement points...especially useful when you are 1 sector away from a warp point and would otherwise stop after warping.
(c) You can see where the opponent is located and plan your game accordingly. He may be far away or close but knowing is your advantage.
(d) If the game should get to the stellar manipulation point...which it has for me sevaeral times, you know just where to open warp points and move in to attack planets in the same turn. Remember...the game plots your movement at the beginning of each day of the month for the shortest route to the destination. So you can open a hole and move to a planet on the same turn.
(e) You know exactly where the choke points are and exactly where the best planets are to colonize. NO need to run around guessing just to see a nebula.

(4) Destroyers. Best ship design you can get. Why? Defensive bonus. Make them into a colony ship (they move faster than colony ships or transports in the early game). Give them a fierce name so that your opponent will guess if they are warships or colony ships. LCs are good later...just because of the larger mount but find the right spot for them. A game can be won with destroyers! Just ask Rex.

(5) Mines, then PD. Of course, this is not a solid rule. If you have taken Ancient and see that your opponent is far away...make other decisions. But if he is nearby...this is your best choice to protect colonys, warp points, and defend against fighters. PD 4's are enough. 5's are expensive and can wait for some time.

(6) Deception. Several reasons for this. As I mentioned above, "mean" ship names on colonizing destroyers. Empty sats in orbit (nothing like making the enemy guess if they are loaded or not). Ships with no weapons if "facing off" with an enemy who has a colony with you in the same system. Bluff him!

(7) Expand, expand, expand. Expand till your colonizers get killed.

(8) Find that "sweet" planet during expansion. The one that can have 2 facilities...a SY and a resupply point. Make sure you choose the right one...the one that is in the path you expect your ships to journey past on the way to the front.

(9) Where to build the Space Port. If you haven't chosen Natural Merchant, you need to consider where to put that Space Port. Do NOT put it at the point in the system you expect the enemy to enter. Put it in the rear. No need to have your enemy take out the nearb planets if he should invade a system and take out your Space Port. Make him travel the distance to get to it.

(10) Training! NEVER neglect it! When expanding, look for the "sweet spot" where you can double or triple your training facilities. I love to see those planets with 2 moons that I can settle on. Ship training is the most important. You can always keep a "ghost fleet" training but getting ships trained is a different matter. Sometimes, I build what I call a "Fleeter" ship that has no engines and sits above a fleet fac just to train...then I swap ships out and put the "Fleeter" ship into a new fleet to start "ghost fleet training" again.

(11) Empire design. Forget happiness! Put it at 51% I will not go into explanation. Forget Environmental Resistance. Forget Repair. All others, you can adjust as your empire/game dictates. Keep your total offense/defense somwhere around 130% Remember the KOTH "clone"...but don't "live" by it. But get close to it. Intel? Depends on your game play...but remember it takes a lot of points to really make a difference in intel work...level 2. Anything else is just a nuissance. That's a lot of points that are easily countered. Better spent somewhere else. Just my opinion.

(12) ECM 1 and 2 and sensor 1 and 2. Candidates for research as early as it is possible. As soon as possible, get your ships to ECM 2, Sensor 2, and 20/20 training. Doesn't matter if you have LCs yet. Refitting ships with either component is worth the one-turn wait. It will hit better or NOT be hit as easily...depending on what you are refitting to.

(13) Pay attention to your shipyards in the rear of the conflict. IF (IIIFFFF!!!) you have the resources to spend, build warshjps and send them to the front. If not...let them sit. No need to spend resources on ships when resources are tight only to have them take 5 or 6 turns to get to the front. For me, these shipyard served their purposes by building colony ships to colonize things close by. Sometimes, depending, I scrap the SY and build a mineral fac if needed.

(14) How are things going? By turn 25 - 30...if you are doing things as you should...assuming your opponent was not "next" to you, you should have a number of colonies close to the number of turns that have elapsed. You should also have an amount of research in thousands equal or better to the number of turns. After turn 30, things start to go up wildly. Expansion is usually nearing an end. You've met your enemy and have made decisions on attack or defense points. So, after turn 30, depending on your position, research should start going up fast. For example, in my current KOTH game with Parabolize, it is turn 43 and I have 80,000 in research. I haven't neglected resources and neither should you. But, don't build research facs and neglect minerals! Minerals are very important! Besides building ships, they are the most important component in building more facs.

Well, hope I have helped some. The vets among us probably know this already. Given equal starting positions and systems, the winner will be the first to recognize the strategic points on the map, the time to defend and the time to attack, the time to upgrade shipyards or mineral facs, the time to use fighters or not, the time to recognize things are at a standstill and to work on stellar manipulation ("openers"), and the time to get another colony type. For me...I choose mineral 2 followed by SY 2. I get the resources updated in order to upgrade the SYs right after. But knowing it is the right time to spend those several turns is crucial. Again, all things equal and everyone practicing some variation of what I have said, the winner will be the first to recognize important points in the map and the right time to attack/defend/upgrade.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Slynky:
An interesting note/idea:

Just took a look at Primitive/Grandpa game. 57 turns. If Primitive hasn't won by now...hehe...maybe the old codger will get him yet!

Can't wait to see this result. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't get your hopes up too high, I have not given up on that Sweet spot in the rankings yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The Hordes are on the move. Raiding fleet (s) are breaking into Timmyspace as we speak (write) and if they are succesfull:....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

We have a huuuge Tesco Map with one good planet start. The Primitive Hordes has gathered the slightly larger part of the map, and has also come out better in the initial exchanges.
The Primitive one has discovered a new favorite toy; cloacked mine layers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . Kudos to Gramps for cleaning up the minefields nicely, but for a minimal investment I got about 20 of his ships and forced him to build a larg fleet of sweepers. While I'm up, this one is far from over http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Slynky]

Thanks for the update, Primitive. I've always figured you for a quick game and that if it's not...things would be going bad for you. I see now it's just a bigger map than usual.

[Grandpa Kim]

Yeah, and about a dozen points of contact which made those cloaked minelayers a real headache. Couple mines here, couple mines there. Grrrr...

Anyway, I'm saving a bundle now NOT building minesweepers for my fleets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[se5a]

thats a rather defencive attitude isint it?

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by se5a:
thats a rather defencive attitude isint it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think that was the point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Grandpa Kim]

You see, se5a, I already have the sweepers. Now I just have to build fleets around them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Slynky:
(b) You don't have to stop at unexplored warp points...keep moving to where you want to go and don't waste movement points...especially useful when you are 1 sector away from a warp point and would otherwise stop after warping.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or better yet learn the trick to avoid stopping like this and spend the 1000 points on something better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by DavidG:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
(b) You don't have to stop at unexplored warp points...keep moving to where you want to go and don't waste movement points...especially useful when you are 1 sector away from a warp point and would otherwise stop after warping.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or better yet learn the trick to avoid stopping like this and spend the 1000 points on something better. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, yes, but you can't know where the planets are in the system and you can only get a rough guess where the warp points are. So you still waste some movement.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Slynky:
(5) Mines, then PD. Of course, this is not a solid rule. If you have taken Ancient and see that your opponent is far away...make other decisions. But if he is nearby...this is your best choice to protect colonys, warp points, and defend against fighters. PD 4's are enough. 5's are expensive and can wait for some time.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A good rule and certain to result in an early death should you start VERY near (as in adjacent) your enemy as proven by most of my losses. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Edit: Assuming that is that your opponent has gone for military tech like ship construction

[ January 03, 2004, 23:41: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by DavidG:
A good rule and certain to result in an early death should you start VERY near (as in adjacent) your enemy as proven by most of my losses. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...which is exactly why you need to take Ancient Race, so you don't make that mistake.

[geoschmo]

I rarely take Ancient race in Koth games. I agree it is a quite useful trait, but I can easily find many better uses for the 1000 points. It's almost always the Last decision I make when creating my empire, whether or not to take it, but I usually decide not to. In a 3K or 5K game I will almost always take it though. Sometimes with 3 or 5 good planets I will take it in a 2K game as well because I can lower my production a bit more and raise my construction a bit less to get the points.

I find the value of the Ancient race in a 2-man game is in a fairly narrow window. I tend to prepare enough to deal with a very close enemy even without ancient race, and if we are far enough apart I have enough time to build my empire that the ancient race loses much of it's value. Only in a small range of medium distances does it cause me a problem. Where the enemy has time to prepare a heavy frigate and destroyer force that he can send against me with very little warning. Even then though it's a close thing because they have to allow for ships running out of fuel or hitting my mines.

I have beaten many opponents that have taken ancient race. I have lost to a few as well. But I have never lost to someone and felt like the reason I lost was because they took the trait. They still have to do a lot of things right, and an opponent that does that will be dangerous with or without it.

All that being said, I am certainly happy when my opponent doesn't take it, especially since I don't normally. So I am more then happy to agree to no ancient race and will suggest it myself often. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 04, 2004, 01:31: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
But I have never lost to someone and felt like the reason I lost was because they took the trait. They still have to do a lot of things right, and an opponent that does that will be dangerous with or without it.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've only played two games, but both times it was Ancient Race that gave me the victory. (well, the second game is still on, but I already blew up the enemy homeworld). Both games had close starting positions (6 sectors for the first game, 30 or so for the second) which gives a huge advantage to the Ancient Race empire. I suspect if starting positions are further apart, then Ancient Race will play less of a role. Still, though, I can't imagine playing without it. (well, unless it was Banned, of course...)

[geoschmo]

I don't doubt it's served you well Spoon. I've played a bit more then two games though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

My record in games where I start out in close proximity is pretty good. Most recently I started 2 systems away (probably about 25 sectors). He had ancient race and I did not, and I won. It was exciting for a few turns, I don't mind telling you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

Slynky vs Parabolize: 2405.4

Boundaries have been established and the majority of planets have been claimed by me. I have been in 1st place for most of the game BUT:

Though I have nearly 150 ships, I keep seeing all these destroyers and LCs heading toward one system. Around 70-80 total ships should be there by now and he can attack out of that system to either of 2 points...so I have to defend both of them...which splits my ships up. I've been preparing for either place but have less ships than he does...will my first shot even out the combat if he comes through?

Interesting game. Given what I see that he has in the universe, it must be another one of his masterful empire management tools/abilities to maintain that kind of fleet!

I have my own surprises but I wonder if it will be enough.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Though I have nearly 150 ships, I keep seeing all these destroyers and LCs heading toward one system. Around 70-80 total ships should be there by now and he can attack out of that system to either of 2 points...so I have to defend both of them...which splits my ships up. I've been preparing for either place but have less ships than he does...will my first shot even out the combat if he comes through?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You should take the initiative and attack through one warp point with your full force. This is a good instance why attack is the best defence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Slynky]

Thanks for the suggestion, Asmala.

Sometimes, things just happen and you get caught up in it:

Legend

1 2 and 3 - Where defensive/offensive buildup started.
Orange triangles - Places where I managed to get a colony (and could see his ship movements) and have small skirmishes.
Blue Arrow - His constant ship movement toward point #2...50 ships or so...to fleet up in the system marked in blue.
Red arrow - where I made an attack because of the number of ships I saw heading to point #2.
Gray - Worthless systems.

So, it's hard to put 150 ships together when they are so far apart and it seems you have to keep "feeding the fronts" to defend...hoping your first shot will save the day. I finally attacked on the left side hoping he was neglecting that area...I was surprised to find nearly 40 ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif but managed to destroy all of them losing only 10+ of mine (leaving me with 20 warships there).

I've posted the entire map because I don't think I need to worry so much now that I'm invading on the left and I have the other places defended well. I got a better-than-average position to work with and will begin making another type of colony ships in 2 turns. SYs and Mineral extraction have been updated and I can easily support my 140 ships (while building more) now. He has a hard time hitting my ships as it is and hasn't fought my LCs yet with the added armor bonus on them.

Frankly, though, I'm amazed at his economy and how many ships he can support! Though he has less of the system than I do, he has managed it very well. So, one thing I have learned, though, is never to count anyone out...so, I'm still building at points #2 and #3.

http://se4-gaming.net\images\SE4-Game-2.jpg

[parabolize]

i cant see the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by parabolize:
i cant see the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does anyone else have a problem? That's weird. It links to the Ratings site. Hmmmmm.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by parabolize:
i cant see the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Does anyone else have a problem? That's weird. It links to the Ratings site. Hmmmmm. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I can see the map without problems.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by spoon:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by DavidG:
A good rule and certain to result in an early death should you start VERY near (as in adjacent) your enemy as proven by most of my losses. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...which is exactly why you need to take Ancient Race, so you don't make that mistake. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well yea it is a 1000 point security blanket in that case. If you take a chance and assume you will start further apart then I think there are better ways to spend the points.

[Slynky]

I hear that the 1,000 points isn't worth it yet I've had more than one player, when deciding settings, ask to exclude it. If it's not worth the 1,000 points, then it would seem people would WANT me to waste them. I can spend those 1,000 points and still get around 130% off/def, and 3 other special traits. So, in the future, if it's a waste of points, then let me waste them and don't propose we exclude it from choice... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There, that's all that needs to be said on ancient in KOTH from me.

[Slynky]

Slynky vs Parabolize: 2405.5

Parabolize surrenders.

The fleet that I invaded with is set, by looking at the surrender map, to invade without much of a problem. Anticipating a successful invasion, I built a colonizer to move in behind me to settle and make me a resupply center (though I had supply mods on the sweepers, they wouldn't get me too far).

As to the fleet of his in the middle of the map (I guessed correctly when I said 50 or so), it would have had a hard time breaking through either of the warp points it could have chosen as I had fighters, sats, and a fleet of 40 (trained) ships as both places.

I''m still amazed at his empire management and how he could build and maintain over 100 ships! I guess I still need to learn more. As tough an opponent as he is, I don't understand why his rating is so low. I wonder if he has had too much bad luck in other games (though, after a while, the luck should be averaged out).

Good game, Parabolize! I was on the edge of my computer seat till the end.

[Slynky]

Looks like Spoon and I are up. And the winner gets to get in a longgggg line for the throne... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Spoon, my preferences are standard setup with one GOOD planet instead of an average one. What are your suggestions?

[Nodachi]

And the winner gets to get in a longgggg line for the throne <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And people wonder why I sit on the bottom, I never have to wait for a game! (For Sale: 1 bridge, slightly used...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Nodachi:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> And the winner gets to get in a longgggg line for the throne <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And people wonder why I sit on the bottom, I never have to wait for a game! (For Sale: 1 bridge, slightly used...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hear that!

(what makes it worse is looking at my email and seeing all the games I created running like crazy and me sitting here typing stupid things in the forum while gazing longingly at the inbox... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif )

[spoon]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Spoon, my preferences are standard setup with one GOOD planet instead of an average one. What are your suggestions? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My preference is for you to take Crystaline, Emotionless, and 150% repair. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Failing that, your suggestion sounds good to me. Good luck!

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I hear that the 1,000 points isn't worth it yet I've had more than one player, when deciding settings, ask to exclude it. If it's not worth the 1,000 points, then it would seem people would WANT me to waste them. I can spend those 1,000 points and still get around 130% off/def, and 3 other special traits. So, in the future, if it's a waste of points, then let me waste them and don't propose we exclude it from choice... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Woosies and cowards all of them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Real supreme rulers don't need the fuzzy wozzy comfort of ancient race.

[ January 05, 2004, 13:25: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[DavidG]

Any of you guys stuck in the line waiting for a game and feel like a practice game let me know. Note that I'm no longer in the hill because I don't want to commit the time and the KOTH clone thing is getting a bit boring. So if anyone wants a game possibly like the following let me know at dgunsten@sympatico.ca :

expect at least a turn a day but maybe not much more.
Ruins (unbalancing? who cares it's fun)
No mines
No training
any other wierd settings you want.
such as:
must take a racial and use only racial weapons

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I hear that the 1,000 points isn't worth it yet I've had more than one player, when deciding settings, ask to exclude it. If it's not worth the 1,000 points, then it would seem people would WANT me to waste them. I can spend those 1,000 points and still get around 130% off/def, and 3 other special traits. So, in the future, if it's a waste of points, then let me waste them and don't propose we exclude it from choice... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's all part of the mental game Slynk. You think ancient race is crucial. If I can get you to not use it then in your mind you are playing at a disadvantage. Even if I don't really think it's that big of an advantage having it, the important thing is how much it screws with your head not to have it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by DavidG:
Any of you guys stuck in the line waiting for a game and feel like a practice game let me know. Note that I'm no longer in the hill because I don't want to commit the time and the KOTH clone thing is getting a bit boring. So if anyone wants a game possibly like the following let me know at dgunsten@sympatico.ca :

expect at least a turn a day but maybe not much more.
Ruins (unbalancing? who cares it's fun)
No mines
No training
any other wierd settings you want.
such as:
must take a racial and use only racial weapons <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Is there a way to prohibit training?

I try to keep my games to rated ones but I might enjoy a rematch.

By the way, chess uses the same pieces on the same board and the same settings. Why is KOTH such a clone?

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
I hear that the 1,000 points isn't worth it yet I've had more than one player, when deciding settings, ask to exclude it. If it's not worth the 1,000 points, then it would seem people would WANT me to waste them. I can spend those 1,000 points and still get around 130% off/def, and 3 other special traits. So, in the future, if it's a waste of points, then let me waste them and don't propose we exclude it from choice... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's all part of the mental game Slynk. You think ancient race is crucial. If I can get you to not use it then in your mind you are playing at a disadvantage. Even if I don't really think it's that big of an advantage having it, the important thing is how much it screws with your head not to have it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Leave it to you to go "mental" with me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Of course, I think, I play just as well without it...I mean within what it contricts me to...which is the same as it constricts the opponent. You DID whomp me in our KOTH game, though...I think having ancient in that game may have helped but who knows for sure.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Is there a way to prohibit training?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You could turn off advanced military tech and psychic tech. Or simply a gentleman's agreement.

Originally posted by Slynky:

By the way, chess uses the same pieces on the same board and the same settings. Why is KOTH such a clone? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hear hear. Even if everybody did use exactly the same empire setup there is still enough variety in game play style and the random element to keep me interested. SE4 IROC, so to speak. But beyond that, the "koth clone" isn't exactly a firmly defined set of characteristics. People mostly agree on the basics, but not all the specifics. There are many differences in degree.

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Slynky:

By the way, chess uses the same pieces on the same board and the same settings. Why is KOTH such a clone? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">99% of opening chess moves P-KP4. how much more cloned can you get? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Please don't make me list the ways how all SE4 games are similar.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by DavidG:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:

By the way, chess uses the same pieces on the same board and the same settings. Why is KOTH such a clone? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">99% of opening chess moves P-KP4. how much more cloned can you get? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Please don't make me list the ways how all SE4 games are similar. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's P-K4 (which, by the way is the old way of notation). It's written that way to save time while on the clock. After all, only one pawn can get there.

But you display a strange attitude...chess has, for years, been considered the greated game of all. I'm sure there are "Go" enthusiasts among us (and I used to give a 3-stone handicap for anyone I played 'cause the chances of them being any good at "Japan's chess" were slight) who might disagree.

But, disregarding chess, SE4 offers the same thing (with the inclusion of some luck...which chess doesn't really have to deal with). You have a board layed out in front of you and though you might do some of the same things, you generally find you have to adapt to the map (board), and ships (pieces) and opponent in order to get a win.

But, that aside, don't throw chess into the same bucket as SE4. Until you have studied the game as much as I have, know as much as I do, understand it is a worldwide game, Don't assume it is a boring and redundant game. I forget the statistics but in the hundreds of thousands of games that have been recorded for history, there has been about .0001% occurance of a repeated game. And those were short.

[Slynky]

Yes, Geo, but by turning off Adv Mil Tech, you take away hyper optics. As to gentleman's agreement, I suspect most anyone would prefer something that is more "enforceable" and "verifiable". For my part...I could handle it with the appropriate honesty but the first time that a fleet of mine destroyed a fleet of the opponent, I wouldn't want to have to undergo the "accusation" of "you must have trained them!". God knows I hate spending time training ships/fleets anyway! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Anyway, back to the subject...there is no way to turn off JUST training.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Yes, Geo, but by turning off Adv Mil Tech, you take away hyper optics.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">True enough, but what of it? There are other components that can do the job of hyper optics. You can research gravatic sensors in about the same time you'd have hyper optics, and tachyeon sensors in just a few more turns then that. Or if you take the temporal race trait you could have temporal sensors in less time then any of them. There are psychic sensors as well, but I already suggested turning off psychic technology to eliminate the psychic training facility.
Originally posted by Slynky:

Anyway, back to the subject...there is no way to turn off JUST training. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not without a mod, no. However, a mod to turn them off only would be a very simple one.

[tesco samoa]

if there is four perhaps a rule that another level gets added http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So the four can fight it out and then the two winners fight it out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Asmala]

RexTorres, BBegemott, how the King match is going? Any estimations how much left? There is a nice queue and I'm thinking if I should do something to that.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Asmala:
RexTorres, BBegemott, how the King match is going? Any estimations how much left? There is a nice queue and I'm thinking if I should do something to that. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not that I ever get to be a Contender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , but IMO there should never be more than one Contender. I would like to see levels added and deleted as conditons change.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Geckomlis:
[QUOTE]I would like to see levels added and deleted as conditons change. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree with you Gecko.

[geoschmo]

While I am all for constant competition and all, the idea of adding and deleting levels willy nilly seems to me to be a bit drastic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You could end up with one poor sap having to play a lot more games to get a shot at the King, simply for no other reason than the King is taking longer than normal to finish off the current contender. My own situation for example. I don't get to the rarified air up here that often. While I hold little hope of actually winning a King match against any of my possible opponents, I'd still like to get a shot at it. If we stick another level in here and make me play Asmala and/or Belisarius my stock will be dropping faster then Enron. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As an alternative I will suggest again the possibility of simultaneous matches. We don't know yet whether Rex or Bbegmott will be King. If both of them will agree to play a one on one game againt Asmala now, assuming Asmala is willing to get into 2 more games, then we can get a head start on the next King match.

[ January 05, 2004, 17:08: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Geckomlis:
[QUOTE]I would like to see levels added and deleted as conditons change. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agree with you Gecko. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The unscrupulous might drag their feet in a Top of the Hill match just so they would be able to avoid having to play an extra game to be King.
What about Multiple Kings?

[Slynky]

I think people who have earned a shot that the King should stay that way. We had another level for a while and went back to the original 3 (bottome, middle, top) so the people in line for the throne earned the right to be there. Just my 2 Pence worth http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Ragnarok]

Why not start a bracket similar to the NFL playoffs? You have X number of people on the hill currently. Take the number and devide it by 2 and then start two hills. Sort of like a East and West hill. The winners of their respect hill (either east or west (name can be changed)) will face one another in a match to win it all and be the best of both hills, until someone knocks them off.

One drawback that I see is when you go through the two hills again and the current king stays on top, suddenly you have 2 more plus the current king on the top. What to do in this situation I haven't thought of yet but given time I'm sure I can think of something.

Another way to do things is to start seasons. Create a schedule and each player has a set schedule in who they must play. The top X amount of teams make the playoffs and battle from there. Making it that much tougher to defend your title by the fact that you have to make it through another full season of games and then all the playoffs to make it. At the same time, you eliminate the chance of having just 1 game reuin your trip to the top. You can now rebound and still make a run at the title.

Yet another way is to create a system in which the computer ranks your wins and losses and strength of schedule and then the top two teams make it. You call it something like HCS (Hill Champion Series).... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Of course that was just a joke and I'm sure you all know what I refer to in those comments. (BCS Sucks)

Just some thoughts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Rags, something league-like with seasons and playoffs was what I was going for with the original idea of the Koth leage. However I discarded the idea fairly early in the process as I realized it has a major shortcoming. People tend to drift in and out of theses sorts of things. We have a core of players that is always playing of course, but a good number of people on the Hill join and play a few games and drop back off for a while. You can't do that with fixed leagues with divisions and seasons.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
You could end up with one poor sap having to play a lot more games to get a shot at the King, simply for no other reason than the King is taking longer than normal to finish off the current contender.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's exactly the reason why I don't like the idea of varying Hill levels. Also Spoon has a good point.

I've no problem with simultaneous matches, that would be one solution. And the current King match is over 80 turns so perhaps other of the players is winning so it's necessarily to start only one match.

But I'd like to hear more suggestions and opinions for this problem. Current views have some dispersion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Slynky:
I think people who have earned a shot that the King should stay that way. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where were all you guys when I was #2 contender and we added another level? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

Ragnarok, your suggestions are too restricted. The length of games vary greatly, from one day to months, and players come and go. The current Hill is great for that since there can't be many people waiting for opponent (except contenders http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) and players can join and leave as they want. A season would be a way too long for KOTH games.

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
As an alternative I will suggest again the possibility of simultaneous matches. We don't know yet whether Rex or Bbegmott will be King. If both of them will agree to play a one on one game againt Asmala now, assuming Asmala is willing to get into 2 more games, then we can get a head start on the next King match. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Simultaneous matches sounds like a good idea to keep things moving. How I am supposed to learn to play better if the top players never get recycled? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by DavidG:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
I think people who have earned a shot that the King should stay that way. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where were all you guys when I was #2 contender and we added another level? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Below you, and wanting a shot at you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[BBegemott]

RexTorres (Rex Enclave) vs BBegemott (Vengeful dreamers)
Turn 2408.3
King match
10 starting planets + tesco map + default

Both empires had great, maybe critical loses in the Last 20 turns. I have destroyed nine RexTorres homeworlds, but lost five. Also a couple of nice planets were destroyed by both sides. It looks like the number of ships decreased much quicker than the number of planets, so there were no combats in the Last 2 turns. Neither me nor RexTorres has large fleets causing chaos now. What keeps us fighting is the knowledge, that the opponent is experiencing the same economical difficulties.

Good news to me are that my intel projects have broken trough his CI. So I am bombarding RexTorres with Food Contamination. Also I was able to hold the 1st place since turn 60 or so, but I doubt it is a big achievement in the current situation.

I am ancient and I can say without revealing much that each of us has at least 50 clonies remaining.

So we are rebuilding our economy and military. Who will be the first to strike the final blow? I have no idea. Not yet.

[BBegemott]

Originally posted by Geckomlis:
I would like to see levels added and deleted as conditons change. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with Geckomlis as well. Personally I joined KOTH because I can play quick games and after finishing one I get the other soon. So I can keep the costant game number. And I do not care where I am- bottom or top. What I want is a game- quick, tough and now.

Originally posted by geoschmo:
As an alternative I will suggest again the possibility of simultaneous matches. We don't know yet whether Rex or Bbegmott will be King. If both of them will agree to play a one on one game againt Asmala now, assuming Asmala is willing to get into 2 more games, then we can get a head start on the next King match. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think I can handle one more game. But that's the limit for me. I do not want two more games before the others finish.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by BBegemott:
I think I can handle one more game. But that's the limit for me. I do not want two more games before the others finish. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The way I see it working, you would only need to play one more. Against Asmala. As well Rex would need to play Asmala. Asmala would be the one getting two more games, but sinec he currently has no game, hopefully that wouldn't be a problem.

What would happen next would depend on who won which games.

[tesco samoa]

Now the question is

What is the goal.

Is it to be KOTH.

Or is it to play games.

If it is to play games then add the row to get the 4 players playing again. A temp row is all it is used when there is 2 people or more waiting to play the king.

[geoschmo]

I want to be King. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If anyone is waiting and just wants to play a game, we don't need to add a level. I'll play you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[rextorres]

Guys even though I am down - out of just plain spite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif - I plan to fight it out to the bitter end. Unless someone can convince me to abdicate for the good of the kingdom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

So all of you who are at the jewelers getting their crowns fitted should go to the local tavern to have some grog or something.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by rextorres:
Guys even though I am down - out of just plain spite http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif - I plan to fight it out to the bitter end. Unless someone can convince me to abdicate for the good of the kingdom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

So all of you who are at the jewelers getting their crowns fitted should go to the local tavern to have some grog or something. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't take our kvetching and moaning personally. I for one plan to play to the bitter end when I get the chance, so no way I could begrudge you that. But from the way Bbegemott talks it's no sure thing you are going to lose.

Always remember...
It's ain't over till the fat lady's planet get's glassed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 05, 2004, 20:58: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[rextorres]

That's good to know. I was actually feeling a little guilty more than anything.

[Rollo]

I think the best way would be to add the extra level again (not sure why it was removed at all) and leave it that way.
I suppose that would mean pairing Asmala and Geo and putting MB against Spoon/Slynky.

I know it is tough on the guys who are in contender spots right now. I have been there myself before.

But since we have that precedence when DavidG and myself had to fight another match to regain our contender spots, I really see no problem with that ruling.

BTW, Asmala, please put me back on bottom of the hill. I'll try another shot for the crown http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Asmala]

Welcome back Rollo!

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Rollo:
I think the best way would be to add the extra level again (not sure why it was removed at all) and leave it that way.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually the way it is now is the way it's been for most of the long and storied history of the Hill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif For a short time Asmala added another level cause things were getting backed up, like they are now I guess. But it was a fairly temporary situation and he took it back off a while back because things had thinned out significantly. At that point we had like one person on each level and it looked like it was going to be a while before that changed.

If Asmala decides to do as you suggest I will of course abide by it and play him. But I'm gonna hold my breath and stomp my feet for a while about missing my chance at a King match. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Even with one more level though it's entirely foreseeable that this will happen again in the future. We should come up with some way to deal with it, unless we are just going to decide to live with it, which is fine too. Adding levels every time it happens is not the best solution I don't think. But hey, I'm not in charge anymore so my opinion doesn't really matter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[spoon]

Originally posted by Rollo:
I think the best way would be to add the extra level again (not sure why it was removed at all) and leave it that way.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe add the extra level, but include a grandfather clause exempting some players from having to play on it right away. Like, oh, say everyone at the Top of the Hill and above proceed as if there is no extra level... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Rollo:
I think the best way would be to add the extra level again (not sure why it was removed at all) and leave it that way.
I suppose that would mean pairing Asmala and Geo and putting MB against Spoon/Slynky.

I know it is tough on the guys who are in contender spots right now. I have been there myself before.

But since we have that precedence when DavidG and myself had to fight another match to regain our contender spots, I really see no problem with that ruling.

BTW, Asmala, please put me back on bottom of the hill. I'll try another shot for the crown http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh oh, the Viking is back!!
I have not problems to play another game... after all, don't like the idea to wait during 4 months until have my chance!
In the other hand... dislike the idea to do something that could harm the Geo's intentions to take the crown! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
In the other hand... dislike the idea to do something that could harm the Geo's intentions to take the crown! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't minsunderstand me. I have no hope of actually taking the crown. I merely wish to have the chance of touching it as I go down in flames during a King match. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I believe that my run of luck has more then exceeded any reasonable hope on my part, having bested Phoenix, Kazarp and Slynky. The prospect of now facing Asmala when I thought the king match within my grasp is distressing.

But, eh, I'll get over it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

End the discussion Asmala, make a decision. If it be to add another level then let us get to it and get it over with for fair or foul. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(Megh, why am I typing like this? Guess I have been reading too much Tolkien lately. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[ January 06, 2004, 01:21: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[tesco samoa]

where is the 30 page song then ???

[Phoenix-D]

Ah, Geo? Why would beating me need luck?

Or have you not looked at my win/loss rating yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Grandpa Kim]

What they hey, here's my 2 cents.

Add that level right now. Stick it right below the current contender so they aren't effected.

If the a player is at the... Peak(?) waiting for a game AND the King is waiting for a game, then those two will play and the Peak will be vacant. This way, the Peak slot is only used when necessary. We've seen the pyramid both ways, with the top heavy and the top light. This should help ameliorate the situation.

[spoon]

Crap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[spoon]

Originally posted by Asmala:
This will minimize the amount of idle players but still it makes conscious dawdling futile. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, for the unscrupulous, this provides more opportunities to dawdle... The Evil Bad King would be inclined to lolligag if he sees someone he doesn't like at the Top of the Hill. He could, theoretically and unscrupulously, drag his feet until somebody eliminates the dangerous contender for him. Similarly, if you are at the Crest of the Hill, with one opponent at the Top of the Hill, and if you are unscrupulous and evil and bad, then your best bet would be to dawdle until the Top of the Hill location is clear, and hope for a quick King Battle.

Fortunately, none of us are unscrupulous or evil or bad, so I doubt this will be a problem.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by spoon:
The Evil Bad King would be inclined to lolligag if he sees someone he doesn't like at the Top of the Hill. He could, theoretically and unscrupulously, drag his feet until somebody eliminates the dangerous contender for him.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He who eliminates the dangerous contender is obviously even more dangerous, so perhaps it's not so wise for King to dawdle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Similarly, if you are at the Crest of the Hill, with one opponent at the Top of the Hill, and if you are unscrupulous and evil and bad, then your best bet would be to dawdle until the Top of the Hill location is clear, and hope for a quick King Battle.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you're on the Crest of the Hill and you try to dawdle till the Top of the Hill is empty and there no contenders, I dare to say you have to dawdle a long time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Of course there is always possibility to dawdle, but it's difficult to have a good timing since games are finished in quick pace.

[Asmala]

The account where KOTH site is currently is expiring. Spaceempire.net kindly promised to host KOTH (thanks Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ).

The new address is http://www.spaceempires.net/koth so please update your links. Also Fyron said http://koth.spaceempires.net should work, but I can't get it work for me. Anybody else has problems with it?

[Slynky]

Expire? I thought it ran off the PBW server.

[Rollo]

Well, I am glad that the crest is back and like the rule about advancing to #1 contender if there is noone else on the top. Actually I was about to suggest that myself. Grandpa Kim beat me to it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

One thing I don't understand, though, is that the current contenders #2 - #4 are not moved down to the top of the hill, because the new level doesn't solve the problem of the long queue of contenders. In fact I find it somewhat unfair to all the people who fought their way up through the extra levels.

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Actually the way it is now is the way it's been for most of the long and storied history of the Hill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif For a short time Asmala added another level cause things were getting backed up, like they are now I guess. But it was a fairly temporary situation and he took it back off a while back because things had thinned out significantly. At that point we had like one person on each level and it looked like it was going to be a while before that changed.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you are mistaken here, Geo. The extra level has been in effect for a long time since May Last year. Also ever since the extra level had been added and DavidG and myself lost our contender spots, all the Kings and contenders had to go through the extra level. That is also true for the current #1 contender, BBegemott.

So moving the current #2 - #4 contenders to the top would not only solve the problem with the long wait queue. It would also mean consistancy for the hill, since no #1 contender has (yet) slipped under the radar of having fewer levels for a period of time.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't suggest this out of spite, but out of fairness.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Expire? I thought it ran off the PBW server. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. If you look at the address you'll notice it has nothing to do with PBW. First it was there but when I started to manage KOTH it moved to koti.mbnet.fi.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Rollo:
One thing I don't understand, though, is that the current contenders #2 - #4 are not moved down to the top of the hill, because the new level doesn't solve the problem of the long queue of contenders. In fact I find it somewhat unfair to all the people who fought their way up through the extra levels.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Obviously you haven't noticed that Master Belisarius is the only contender who hasn't gone through the extra level. If I drop Geo to the Top he would need 6 wins in succession to became the King! That I would call unfair. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However your post made me think there is some unfairness currently. Unfortunately to Master Belisarius, the best solution is drop to him to the Top of the Hill. That will mean every contender since the addition of the extra level has gone through it. I hope you have no hard feelings Master Belisarius.

[geoschmo]

Yes, I had already made it to the top level when we removed the extra level. Slynky actully got bumped up a level at the time, but I beat him in our match.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Yes, I had already made it to the top level when we removed the extra level. Slynky actully got bumped up a level at the time, but I beat him in our match. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep, that's right, one day I woke up, found myself in a match and then a day or two later recovered from the beating.

[geoschmo]

I may have caused the confusion with my post listing my recent victories. I inadvertantly neglected to mention the first victory against Alneyan. My appologies to Alneyan for fogetting him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nice job of reaching a logical, fair decision there Asmala. Now you see why I didn't want to run this puppy any longer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Obviously you haven't noticed that Master Belisarius is the only contender who hasn't gone through the extra level. If I drop Geo to the Top he would need 6 wins in succession to became the King! That I would call unfair. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yes, you are correct. I missed the fact that both Geo and yourself had 4 consecutive wins to earn the contender spot. My apologies.

Good and fair decision.

Also I hope no hard feelings, MB. Best of luck and success in your upcoming matches.

[ January 06, 2004, 21:30: Message edited by: Rollo ]

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Asmala:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Rollo:
One thing I don't understand, though, is that the current contenders #2 - #4 are not moved down to the top of the hill, because the new level doesn't solve the problem of the long queue of contenders. In fact I find it somewhat unfair to all the people who fought their way up through the extra levels.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Obviously you haven't noticed that Master Belisarius is the only contender who hasn't gone through the extra level. If I drop Geo to the Top he would need 6 wins in succession to became the King! That I would call unfair. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However your post made me think there is some unfairness currently. Unfortunately to Master Belisarius, the best solution is drop to him to the Top of the Hill. That will mean every contender since the addition of the extra level has gone through it. I hope you have no hard feelings Master Belisarius. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed, I consider it fair. And if you check my previous post, you will see that I have not problems to go back... I prefer to play a new game instead wait during 3 months until have my chance to play against the King.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Rollo:
Also I hope no hard feelings, MB.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course I have not problems.

Originally posted by Rollo:

Best of luck and success in your upcoming matches. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks!

[Grandpa Kim]

Grandpakim vs. Primitive. GK surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Primitive was most generous when he said he had a "slightly larger portion of the map". It was more like 60/40. He managed this despite my best ever expansion speed. I acquired new territory faster than I ever have and it still wasn't enough. This advantage (along with his great playing skills) gave Primitive more of everything: ships, tech, planets. I had no disadvantage from bad systems or bad selection of planets, I simply lost to a better player. Congrats to Primitive! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Now go on to become King and make me look good... er well make me look not quite so bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Asmala send me back to the trenches where I am sure to win this time. I am going to use a new shipset: Trooper's Pexlerr. Yes it's true. After using the tired old Toltayan shipset for the past 2 years, I am making a change. I can't possibly lose with these beauties! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Almost forgot. Primitive, your shipset is gorgeous! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ January 06, 2004, 23:43: Message edited by: Grandpa Kim ]

[Slynky]

Don't build him up too much...before you know it, he won't be able to get his head through the bulkheads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

I've made my decision. I will do as Grandpa Kim suggested, since that's IMO the best way. New level is added above Top and that doesn't affect to contenders. If sometimes King has no opponent and there is one one person in the Top of the Hill, he will be moved to 1st contender. This will minimize the amount of idle players but still it makes conscious dawdling futile.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

maybe that's the point... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[parabolize]

Dinglehopper I sent you an email it looked like this:

Does this look OK?
medium spiral arm
no events
medium tech cost
no intel
20000 starting resources
1 good home world
low tech start
2000 racial points
rated game

Did you get that email?

[Slynky]

Almost forgot...welcome back, Rollo.

(ummmm, you bring any ale?) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

That's great you're satisfied with my decision.

KOTH page is updated.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Asmala:
That's great you're satisfied with my decision.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought you came up with the best solution too. Thanks for taking care of business!

[Electrum]

Originally posted by Slynky:
Don't build him up too much...before you know it, he won't be able to get his head through the bulkheads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thus, a new definition for "Bulk" Head!

[tesco samoa]

Gegnersuche & psychologische Kriegsführung!
Rollo !

Perhaps

Asmala ???

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Electrum:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Slynky:
Don't build him up too much...before you know it, he won't be able to get his head through the bulkheads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thus, a new definition for "Bulk" Head! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ooooh (owwwwww) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (nice one, Electrum!)

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by Asmala:
That's great you're satisfied with my decision.

KOTH page is updated. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Asmala, You might have to update the web page in your signiture. Of course unless you have since done it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Rollo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Gegnersuche & psychologische Kriegsführung!
Rollo !

Perhaps

Asmala ??? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">uummmmm,... I don't quite follow

anyway, I don't resort to psychological warfare much. That's why I like mano-a-mano games. No use for political chit chat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[primitive]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
Grandpakim vs. Primitive. GK surrenders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Primitive was most generous when he said he had a "slightly larger portion of the map". It was more like 60/40. He managed this despite my best ever expansion speed. I acquired new territory faster than I ever have and it still wasn't enough. This advantage (along with his great playing skills) gave Primitive more of everything: ships, tech, planets. I had no disadvantage from bad systems or bad selection of planets, I simply lost to a better player. Congrats to Primitive! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Now go on to become King and make me look good... er well make me look not quite so bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Asmala send me back to the trenches where I am sure to win this time. I am going to use a new shipset: Trooper's Pexlerr. Yes it's true. After using the tired old Toltayan shipset for the past 2 years, I am making a change. I can't possibly lose with these beauties! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Almost forgot. Primitive, your shipset is gorgeous! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks to Granpa for a great game. Fast expansion was the key to victory, as always (BTW, for those who followed the “opening strategies” thread: It was done without ancient, hardy industrialist or any bases on HW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Granpa is a tough customer, but with all the lucky breaks going my way………One lucky break (for me) was when my colonizer with kamikaze order met one of his ship capture scouts over a warppoint and they deadlocked on each side of the blue field, denying him of both my breathers and my colonizing tech.

Good luck to you Granpa against Rollo (You’ll need it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). I’ll promise to try my best to become the king and make you proud http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And also thanks to CNC for the Oxmal shipset which I tried for the first time in this game. It’s pure gold.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
That's great you're satisfied with my decision.

KOTH page is updated. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Asmala, You might have to update the web page in your signiture. Of course unless you have since done it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I updated the signature at the same time when I posted the new address here.

[ January 08, 2004, 11:12: Message edited by: Asmala ]

[tesco samoa]

my german is rather bad eh.

I ment to say beat him in warfare in a psychological damaging way. So I can take him on afterwards when he is weak. That way I can cross off the Beat Asmala in SEIV from my list of things I need to do this year http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Asmala]

Tesco, looks like I have to be careful with you in the Adamant game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

We have two new players, Atrocities and Axel. Welcome!

[geoschmo]

Ooooo, Axel. He's been around a while. My first ever PBEM game of SE4 was against him and Master Belisarius. Good to see those old timers finally getting into Koth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ January 09, 2004, 19:42: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Asmala]

Now I remember it you could update the KOTH link in your signature.

[tesco samoa]

Adamant game is a test mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif So I have no fear of you there .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Now I remember it you could update the KOTH link in your signature. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok

[Grandpa Kim]

Rollo vs. Grandpkim 2400.1

Wow! Three planet start! I can really go to town with this infrastructure!

...I just gotta remember, so can Rollo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Geckomlis]

K.O.T.H. Gecko vs Taikon
2407.7
KOTH Defaults + No Intel

Taikon surrenders to Gecko. Taikon’s inaugural KOTH game was well played and fought to the bitter end. This game more than most I have played was about maneuver. We had contact in several systems at all times with lots of bluffs and feints by the fleets. Without mines, it would have been a real furball. Thanks for a good game Taikon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Gecko

[Taikon]

K.O.T.H. Gecko vs Taikon
2407.7
KOTH Defaults + No Intel

Taikon surrenders to Gecko. Vey well played game Gecko. Many lessons learned on my end.

Taikon.

[Asmala]

KOTH page is updated.

[Asmala]

The longest game in KOTH history has ended: 264 turns!

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by Asmala:
The longest game in KOTH history has ended: 264 turns! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well who was it between and who was the victor?
Don't keep us in suspence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
The longest game in KOTH history has ended: 264 turns! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well who was it between and who was the victor?
Don't keep us in suspence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe it was Lord Chane and Deccan (Deccan being the victor).

[Baron Grazic]

Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
The longest game in KOTH history has ended: 264 turns! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well who was it between and who was the victor?
Don't keep us in suspence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe it was Lord Chane and Deccan (Deccan being the victor). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks. I should have looked it up on the Koth site, but just didn't think of it.

[Phoenix-D]

Phoenix-D vs Rambie, turn 2402.8.

Rambie has surrendered after I burned down his homeworld the previous turn. This was a weird game; the two warps leading out of my home system lead to useless nebula systems, and the rest of the game wasnt't much better. One warp past one of those was his homeworld.

To top if off I made an error with my empire file that result in 0% reproduction. If you had any doubts about Enviromental Resistance affect reproduction, I think this killed that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I found him before he found me, and the rest of the game I sent ship after ship at him. One colony was planted in his home system but soon lost.

Not sure what happened on his end, but eventually I martialled a 10 ship fleet, sortied in and blew his homeworld. With only three other colonies, he didn't have much left to do after that but surrender.

[deccan]

Well, I'm getting bored of SEIV, but I thought that being longest KOTH game ever, I owed it to the SEIV community to give some sort of battle report.

As noted, we ran a Proportions game in a small spiral quadrant. Chane discovered me first, and it turned out that we had near identical empire setups. After I used a destroyer to, um, destroy that pesky initial unarmed scout, we had no real contact for at least 100 turns or so. I did continually send throwaway ships to "ping" his minefields to see the extent of his build-up.

I started the game with one major disadvantage. Three systems to the north of my homesystem was a massive black hole which completely blocked off access. Due to the slow speeds at which colony ships travel in Proportions, this meant that my expansion was limited in mostly one direction only. This is an especially bad thing in Proportions because you have to continually build population transports to carry colonists to new worlds and it meant that my transports had to travel that much further from the homeworld.

So, I moved aggressively in the other direction and mined two strategic warp-points that led into Chane's space. Early on, Chane tried to use a small fleet to break out of the cordon, but underestimated the size of the minefield I'd used and ended up losing that fleet.

Things only started to get interesting around turn 160 or so. It turned out that both of us went on the offensive at around that time. I tried to attack towards the southwest, beyond my own minefields, while Chane attacked across that massive black hole.

I had brought along troop ships with my attack fleet, and managed to actually capture one of Chane's planets with 11 m population, quite a treasure in Proportions. However, when my attack fleet tried to venture deeper beyond that system, it was totally wiped out by Chane's defenses, mostly lots and lots of fighters.

Luckily, I had brought minelayers along with my attack fleet as well, so I placed new minefields on my side of the warp point. Chane apparently didn't expect that, so he lost his counter-attacking fleet. He also did not have minesweepers in that area, because the minefields gave me the time I needed to secure that system.

Meanwhile, Chane's attack across the black hole system was going on. I did not expect him to attack through there and so did not prepare any real defenses. However, after passing through that black hole system, he picked one warp point that led into an empty trinary system and stopped to resupply his ships.

This gave me the time to emergency build boarding ships on escort hulls in my homesystem designed specifically to capture his carriers. They worked as expected as captured most of his carriers more or less intact and the fighters on those carriers destroyed his other ships. If he had chosen to go through the other warp point in the other system, he would have been able to destroy several important planets, though not my homeworld.

So things stayed that way for a long while while we both rebuilt. At around turn 240 or so, Chane sent another attack fleet, consisting exclusively of carriers, to take back that planet I'd taken from him. He entered through a warp point into a nebula system. I'd built bases to defend that warp point, but didn't count on the nebula's cloak that prvented combat, so he had a clear run, and despite my efforts to raise a defence using fighters and several loose carriers, he retook that system from me. However, I managed to send a ship to put a spy satellite in that nebula system, so that when he next tried to send some minesweepers through that same warp point (which he probably thought was undefended), his entire fleet was destroyed.

At around turn 260, I sent a new attack fleet at that same system, consisting of some cruisers designed specifically to kill fighters, PD beams, sensors, armor plating, lots of armor, no shields, fully trained, accompanied by lots of carriers. This fleet succeeded in piercing his defence and that was when he surrendered, confessing that those were about all of his combat-worthy forces.

So that was the longest game in KOTH history and probably remain so. After playing this, both Chane and I agree that Proportions is a great mod for multiplayer, if time consuming. It gives the player time to build and implement strategies to counter specific enemy strategies seen in the field. I find that in stock SEIV the pace of gameplay is so fast that you generally try to build versatile, all-round ships rather than gambling on specialist strategies. Congrats to PvK again for making this mod.

I must say however that I had an advantage in this as I'd played Proportions before and Chane hasn't. I'd like to do this again sometime, but not for a long while.

[deccan]

Whoa, I just realized that I'm no longer officially the worst player in the game! Cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Paul1980au]

That sounds like an interesting game - i would have pursued warp point opening and closing technology.

We need alternatives into the game mods ie new black holes that suck any ships into it - seal off such systems. - I like to cover defenses from all angles and find drones are useful to offset mine fields. You can use them in conjuction with small escorts to explore and probe defenses.

Any tactics you would have used in resprospect now in reference to that game.

[deccan]

Originally posted by Paul1980au:
That sounds like an interesting game - i would have pursued warp point opening and closing technology.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nah, this is Proportions remember. I had like 60k research per turn at turn 264, Chane had like 22k. Not much chance of high levels of Stellar Manipulation with that kind of rp count.

Originally posted by Paul1980au:

Any tactics you would have used in resprospect now in reference to that game. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I seriously underestimated how much intel you need to break through an opponent's defences, so that was a big waste.

Also, I think I should have made the transition to dedicated anti-fighter ships much earlier and much more heavily instead of trying to match Chane fighter-for-fighter, given my tech advantage, say using armor plating and emissive armor and lots of training and combat sensors, instead of researching things like maxed rippers that never got used. The problem with trying to match an opponent fighter-for-fighter is that it gives the defender a massive advantage since he can just switch production on all his planets to fighters and swamp you, while the attacker replenishes his fighter squadrons much more slowly. Anti-fighter ships on the other hand can be repaired after battle, and if they're fully armored, it can be damn difficult for fighters to kill them, unless you have fighters dedicated to killing ships (torpedoes or rockets).

Of course, if Chane had predicted that coming, he would have cleaned those ships out using conventional warships, but as I expected, he gave up producing conventional warships after he saw the first fighter vs. ship battles.

[deccan]

Oh yeah, nearly forgot: this game would have been a lot more interesting if we had AIC style anti-fighter fighters. It would have vastly increased the strategic choices available.

[rextorres]

A zig when I should of zagged and a novel defense and a king abdicates.

[BBegemott]

RexTorres (Rex Enclave) vs BBegemott (Vengeful dreamers)
Turn 2410.4
10 starting planets + Tesco Map + default

The war finally ended! Vengeful dreamers are celebrating the victory! More than 40 billions of people have died in this bloody skirmish.

I was the first to rebuild my military and start operations in enemy teritory, expanding economically at the same time. At the end of the game I have 207 colonies and that number tends to increase. Though RexTorres still has got decent number of colonies- 67, I am sure I have rolled over him. Slowly, but safely.

It was a great game, RexTorres. Thanks.

[primitive]

The King is dead, long live the King http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hey, This sure make me feel better for having the crap beaten out of me by BB in our “Top of the Hill” game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

BTW;
Has anybody managed a successful defence of the Crown? It seems like we have a new King for each game.

[BBegemott]

Thanks, Primitive. I hope we'll meet again on my way to the KOTH, if I'll lose to Asmala http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I recall RexTorres has beaten Slynky defending KOTH title. And Stone Mill has made some successful defences too. I think those 'successful KOTH defence' games are forgotten so quickly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It was nice to have smth like 'History of the Kings' which listed all kings games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Slynky]

Congrats, BBegemott!

Sounds like a bloodbath game you had. It sure takes a lot to beat Rex.

BTW, how is the view from up there? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[BBegemott]

Thanks Slynky.

BTW, how is the view from up there? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is difficult to describe in a few words, but trust me, it is worth living for http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[primitive]

Originally posted by BBegemott:
Thanks, Primitive. I hope we'll meet again on my way to the KOTH, if I'll lose to Asmala http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey, we could have a rematch in the semi-final of the Bash. I am sure Gecko will forfeit our game if I ask him nicely.

Please Gecko http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

The Book of the Kingdom of the Hill

In the beginning the hill was dark and chaos reigned and all were embroiled in petty wars about it's base and sides and none was worthy to sit upon the throne.

And by the by did two step forward and through the right of victory over their enemies did lay claim the right to the mantle of the King. And thus did Preacherman face Geoschmo on the field of battle, and thus was Preacheman victorius and took his rightful place on the throne and Geoschmo was cast off into utter darkness.

And so Preacherman was the first true King and his reign was one of peace and light and all was well in the Kingdom of the Hill.

And by the by the good King Preacherman did grow old and feeble from lack of challenge, so that when a the Mighty Stone Mill finally rose from the depths of the Hill he slew good King Preacheman with his sword and a twist of his hips.

And Stone Mill the magnificent took his place upon the throne and was crowned the second King. And he looked upon his Kingdom and said, "Thank you, Thank you verra much."

And thus all was well in the Kingdom of the Hill and all it's citizens lived in safety for Stone Mill the Magnificent was a mighty warrior. Three times did challengers rise to face the Stoney one, and three times did he slay them all in their course.

Asmala the Wise, 1FSTCAT the Brave, and RexTorres the Strong did all seek the throne, and all were denied in turn for Stone Mill was truly the King.

But by and by did the King grow fond of looking at himself in the mirror and practicing his snarl and eating the royal peanut butter and nanner sandwiches.

And thus did a new challenger come from the Northlands. One who was a king in his own right in the land of his birth and born and bred to the task of fighting. And thus did Rollo raise his sword up to smite King Stone Mill. And as King Stone Mill lifted himself from his throne to face the challenge of Rollo, he did by and by slip on a nanner peel and was slain.

And thus did Rollo the Fearsome become the third King. And all was good in the Kingdom of the Hill, for Rollo had brought beer.

And Rollo did reign over the Kingdom of the Hill for the seasons that were appointed unto him. And the people of the hill were happy for the kegs that he did supply. But by and by there arose a challenger to the throne as Mark strode forth to try and claim the mantle of the King. And thusly did Rollo smite the challenger with a mighty thrust of his sword and the people rejoiced for they had discussed it and decided that "King Mark" did not quite have a regal sound to it.

But as quickly as Mark had been dispatched another challenger stepped forward. And he went by the name of RexTorres, which in the tongue of his forefathers is translated King, uh, Torres. And this brought forth anger in King Rollo that one should deign to go by the title that was only for he that sat on the throne of the hill, and they did clash.

For night after night did the battle rage as the people looked on. And when the smoke cleared there was a new King. Rollo did go out into the darkness to bind his wounds and ponder whether he would seek the throne another day. And thus did RexTorres the Strong ascend to the throne. And the people were satisfied for his name sounded suitably regal, but they mourned for there was no more free beer.

And verily did RexTorres look out over the hill and thus did a new challenger arise to face him. His name was Slynky the Quick, and he was clad from head to toe in shining armor and he raised his sword for to smite the King. But King Rex was a mighty warrior, and had grown fond of the throne and did not deign to give it up. And Rex and Slynky did battle, and in the end Slynky was defeated. And in the fight did Rex shred the armor of Slynky the Quick and broke his back in many places and smote him and he did fall down the hill, end over end. And the noise his armor did make and the appearance of him tumbling down the hill end over end was pleasing to the children of the kingdom, and thus was born a new toy consisting of a spring that would move as if walking down a hill, and thus it was named a Slinky, but that is a story for another book.

By and by did another challenger raise up to face King RexTorres. And he was a mysterious foe from the “Land of Too Many Consonants” named Bbgemott. And the battle was fierce and raged for many days and weeks. And there was much whining up and down the hill from those in waiting to take their shot at the throne. But the King and challenger did not trouble themselves with the inferior ones, and continued to fight, as was their right and duty. And in the end was King RexTorres slain and cast down to the bottom of the hill, and a new king was crowned. And thus did King Bbegemott the Mmightyy take his place on the throne of the hill, and the people were pleased, although they could not pronounce his name.


[ January 16, 2004, 15:22: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Slynky]

Bravo, BRAVO!

Superb reading, your Schmoness! Absolutely SUPERB! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[BBegemott]

I'mm ggonaa llovee tthatt sstoryy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[David E. Gervais]

The History of Kings is a rich and valliant account of nobel yet humble deeds performed in glorious battles seen and heard throughout the 'Empires of Space'. An ever expanding story that shall be handed down from generation to generation. (along with the secret recipe for 'Tazmainian Popcorn') An epic in the making, as each new king struggles to keep the throne from the hands of the brave (and foolish) people who would challenge the sovereign king.

Yup, I do enjoy a good story.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Asmala]

Originally posted by primitive:
BTW;
Has anybody managed a successful defence of the Crown? It seems like we have a new King for each game. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Stone Mill and RexTorres have beat me in King matches so there is at least some succesful defences. Perhaps third time lucky for me! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

KOTH page is updated.

[geoschmo]

So Asmala, how's your game against Bbegemott going? Is it over yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Asmala]

Geoschmo, could you set up the King game for me and BBegemott?

That Book of the Kingdom of the Hill is wonderful. Can I put it to KOTH page?

EDIT: BBegemott, what settings you prefer?

[ January 16, 2004, 20:38: Message edited by: Asmala ]

[Slynky]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
So Asmala, how's your game against Bbegemott going? Is it over yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LMAO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[geoschmo]

Game is up.

Yes, Asmala, if you want to copy the Book on the Koth site that would be fine with me.

Geoschmo

[Asmala]

Thanks and thanks. I'll put the Book there then.

[Nodachi]

Nodachi vs Rand

2303.4 - Rand surrenders to Nodachi.

I've been waiting for a victory for a long time now and I thought that when I got one it would be great. It's not. Rand didn't lose to me, he was beaten up by an AI player. Everyone knows that I like unusual settings for my games so when he suggested computer players I said sure why not. I wasn't worried about it. I didn't expect this.

I can not accept this victory and keep my honour intact so if Rand is willing and Asmala agrees to it I'd like to play Rand again. I hope everyone understands.

[Rollo]

LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif excellent history of kings!

Congrats to the new King Bbegemott.

[Grandpa Kim]

Nodachi, I not only agree, I encourage a rematch, mano a mano.

[Asmala]

I've no problem to restart the match. I need only Rand's agreement and new settings (I bet you don't want to use same settings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Joachim]

Joachim v Se5a

Se5a Surrenders to me.

Thanks for the game - you seemed to stall when we made contact? What happened?

[Asmala]

Updated.

[se5a]

yea, I dont know what happend. I was verry spread out I think. so it took me to long to get my ships to the right places, since you had propolsion experts that helped you even more.
also you had scanner and ecm advantage and I had to race to get the techs and upgrade all my ships.

anyway good game.

asmala - put me on ice for a few weeks, I am going away at the end of the month and I dont know how often I will be able to get net accsess. so till I find out put me on hold.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by se5a:
asmala - put me on ice for a few weeks, I am going away at the end of the month and I dont know how often I will be able to get net accsess. so till I find out put me on hold. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK, done.

[Slynky]

Slynky vs Spoon - 2405.0: Slynky Surrenders

Good game, Spoon! I knew it was going to be tough when I saw that you started with 2 large breathables and a medium breathable in your starting home system. Ugh... Nearest thing of that size to me was 3 systems away.

On this Last turn, when you got my best mineral producer, I knew it was a lost cause. My mineral planets were SOOO bad...I had to have 16 miner ships just to keep a fleet of 60 destroyers in the air! Not counting my homeworld and the planet you clobbered, only 7 of my 41 colonies had mineral percentages above 2 digits and none of them with more than 6 facs.

I know you had your share of problems to overcome, too, as you had to go through 2 nebulae before you could get to a good system (4 out of 5 systems behind my home system had no planets). You played a good game and the jump on research (from your home system) helped you in the early battles. I could never really recover considering all the mining ships I had to build to try and keep myself in minerals.

Good luck in your journey up!

[spoon]

Great game - I'm sure I would have lost if I didn't recieve what was probably the best starting system I've ever had in any game... Even with that advantage, you kept the pressure up.

That, and I made so many mistakes...
- took Bloodthirsty happiness type, thinking that since we were at war it might be better than peaceful. Instead, most of my planets stayed at Indifferent for most of the game. Until I researched Troops...

- ... which you might think would have helped me capture more planets -- it wasn't until the Last turn that I realized I had my Troopship set to Optimal Range. Oof!

- I had the Load Population bug happen to me 3 times before I figured that one out (or rather, until Asmala explained it to me...)

- And my favorite mistake -- designing and building a whole line of ships without engines. I deserved the loss just for that one!

Good luck on your next game. I learned a lot from this one, so thanks!

[ January 22, 2004, 00:39: Message edited by: spoon ]

[Paul1980au]

I wonder if MM is going to work on fixing that load population bug for the v 1.85 patch realise.

[Asmala]

Updated

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Updated <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmmm, that's funny...I don't see any updated KOTH page. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Asmala]

Try to hit refresh, it may help.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Try to hit refresh, it may help. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it works at home but it didn't when I tried at work. I clicked "refresh" but that didn't help. Guess I'll look again tomorrow at work.

[Asmala]

We have a new player: welcome Taterbill!

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Slynky:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Asmala:
Try to hit refresh, it may help. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, it works at home but it didn't when I tried at work. I clicked "refresh" but that didn't help. Guess I'll look again tomorrow at work. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Could it affect if you're behind a proxy at work? I don't know if it has any effect or whether you're behind a proxy at work but it's the only reason I can think.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Asmala:
We have a new player: welcome Taterbill! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I see we're getting "table" items lately...Spoons, and Taters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Welcome to the madness, Taterbill.

[Asmala]

Updated

[primitive]

Originally posted by Asmala:
Updated <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Any updates from the King match http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

KOTH BBegemott vs Asmala 2402.1

We took 10 good starting planets so both of us have expanded very fast. The map is a special one, Geoschmo made a 177-systems sphere-like grid map (extra warp points from top to bottom and left to right) map to us so there's a lot to exlore and expand. Actually there isn't lot to explore since we both took ancient trait but at least there's lot of space to expand.

Not much happened yet but the fierce expansion. BBegemott took religious trait and he has already researched the talisman so he has some advantage. I have destroyed a few planets using fighters, but that's all.

Borders are forming gradually so some battles are coming, but how soon, it will be a mystery.

[primitive]

177 systems, and religious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Good luck then, You'r gonna need it. Lots of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by primitive:
177 systems, and religious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Good luck then, You'r gonna need it. Lots of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, you're very brave to use (nearly) the same start-up that he (Bbegemott) beat Rex with. I bet this game will be another "nailbiter", too.

[geoschmo]

It's actually 117 systems, not 177. But he is still to have his hands full with a religious player and a ten planet start I am sure.

[Asmala]

Yep it's 117 systems, not 177. But even that is quite a lot against religious player, especially when the map is a grid map so there's no choke points to defend. Which means there's no warp point battles which are good when playing against religious player using nasty max range tactic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

My match with Dav is now over. My fleets had formed and I invaded his territory and was taking no losses against his fleets, they just couldn't take on my advanced ships. One thing I noticed that didn't help Dav is the use of Torps, all I needed was enough PD and it was a slaughter most of the time. I only got to invade about 2 systems before he surrendered.

But thanks for putting up a fine battle, Dav. You had me worried many times in that one system (I forget the name of it) when you blocked my single ships from getting there.

[Asmala]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
One thing I noticed that didn't help Dav is the use of Torps, all I needed was enough PD and it was a slaughter most of the time.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You mean missiles? Torps are also useless but then you didn't have needed PDC.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Asmala:
You mean missiles? Torps are also useless but then you didn't have needed PDC. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I meant missiles. I guess thinking back on it now he used a mix of both Torps and Missiles, I just got the names mixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Asmala]

Hmm, a mix of missiles and torpedos aren't very good combination in the stock game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Joachim]

Warlord Ragnarok did you want to have our KOTH rated? I'm happy for a rating.

[ January 28, 2004, 11:14: Message edited by: Joachim ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Joachim:
Warlord Ragnarok did you want to have our KOTH rated? I'm happy for a rating. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I didn't even think of that. I'm willing to go with a rated game.

[Baron Grazic]

K.O.T.H. Grazic vs Alneyan 2409.5

For the past year or 2, Alneyan's forces were within our controlled space hitting the odd planet, and a single cloaked ship made it into our Home System and destroyed our Home Planet. {Note to self - At least build 1 mine on Home Planet next time}. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
The 2 EEEvil fleets were making head way into his territory, taking out some planets and 2 of his fleets.
But now that both of our fleets have run out of supplies, Alneyan still has a large fleet in our territory, not counting his solo raiders and now all but 5 of our planets are rioting, we have surrendered to Alneyan.
Welcome done and thanks for a good game Alneyan.
Next time as I said to you, I want fighter technology disabled. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Alneyan]

A great game with Grazic which highlights once more my incredible silliness and my infamous luck. (They might have minefields? So what? Send in the warships without any proper scouting, and may they be successful. It even worked save for a single cruiser which came upon a few rogue mines.)

As I told you Grazic though, I had another fleet in my system protecting my warp closer and my brand new warp opener to join in the fun in your systems and to make a few nice fireworks. (I am very talented when it comes to blowing my own fleets against a supposedly weaker fleet, or even "protecting" a very vulnerable warp opener by putting a non-cloaked warship on the same sector. It does marvel when an enemy fleet is heading towards the aforementioned sector. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Great game and good luck in the future Grazic, and I would like a rematch sooner or later as I told you. With my beloved Light Carriers on the run and the other toys that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Alneyan]

Silly double post. *Grumbles* So that it will not be completely useless, I will ask Primitive about the settings he would like to have in our upcoming KOTH game.

[ January 29, 2004, 21:59: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

[primitive]

Yummy, French fries. Primitive hungry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I like no Ancient, else I'm game for almost everything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tesco samoa]

Yea it was one of the most enjoyable games i have played in seiv... did you like how i dragged it out and forced you to invade countless systems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Asmala]

Updated

[Electrum]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Yea it was one of the most enjoyable games i have played in seiv... did you like how i dragged it out and forced you to invade countless systems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hey! If you could of moved your 2 Big fleets together, I would have been toast! Even the Last battle could have gone either way.

[tesco samoa]

K.O.T.H. Tescosamoa vs Electrum Turn 102

After a classic game of back and forth combat. Tesco surrenders... Tesco is hoping that Electrum can squash the riots that have taken over his empire compteley.

Great game.

Enjoyed every minute of it. Put me back at the bottom and move Electrum up.

[Electrum]

An Excellent Game! it could have gone either way. I was enjoying it so much, I'm kind of sad it's over. Thanks for the game Tesco!

[Rollo]

GrandpaKim has surrendered to me.

Thanks for a great game Kim. Best of luck in your future matches.

Asmala, please move me one up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[Grandpa Kim]

Yes, 'tis true. Despite my brand new Pexlerr shipset, Rollo whooped me good.

Asmala, with my old computer dying and the new computer just arrived (yes, I'm wacking XP with a stick but it still won't do what I want), better put me on the sidelines for a while. I'll be back soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I guess I love the agony of da feet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Looks like we are up again Tesco.
Standard Koth settings, with a Good planet start, or do you want something different?
I won't be able to upload my turn for about 48 hours, cause I'm having difficulties with my dial-up ISP.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

sign me up. jump right in, both feet.

wonder if i'll make the record for the quickest defeat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif i've only played in one pbw game and that ones still not finished. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Alneyan]

Good luck to you in your efforts Narf. I, for one, will resume my attempts at taking over the world, each and every night. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Do not worry, the quickest game was done in six turns, but both players started seven sectors away from each other, so you aren't likely to beat this record. (Unless you did offend Lady Luck recently that is)

[Asmala]

Rollo moved up and Grandpa Kim put on the sidelines.

Welcome Narf! I need to know your PBW username. And do you want to use narf poit chez BOOM or just Narf as your nick in KOTH?

[Asmala]

Welcome David! What nick you'd like to use in Koth? David E. Gervais, David, AvatarMan?
Your first opponent is Narf. I'll set up the game as soon as I get his PBW username.

[Alneyan]

May Lady Luck shine on you as well Hazy Man. Worry not, for you only need five victories in a row to claim the crown, that's a walk in the park. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (At least the landscape is wonderful here at the crest of the hill, if it were not for this primitive horde which was waiting for an unwary traveler. *Smirks*)

[David E. Gervais]

AvatarMan is fine for my nick on the KotH.

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Down to the bottom and off the hill for a bit for me. That's two times in a row that the warp points out of my home system led to nothing but nebulas. I could have stretched this one out longer, but there was no point.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Down to the bottom and off the hill for a bit for me. That's two times in a row that the warp points out of my home system led to nothing but nebulas. I could have stretched this one out longer, but there was no point. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hear ya, Phoenix! In my game, I went west, organism, went west again, asteroids. Meanwhile, went southeast, 1 planet (whoopie), went east, nebula, went east again, nebula, went east AGAIN, asteroids (out of gas).

I think I'll suggest something besides spiral arm next time!

[Slynky]

Taterbill -vs- SLynky - 2403.2 (or so):

Taterbill surrenders. This was Tater's (sorry, Bill, couldn't help it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) first KOTH game. I hope he learned a bit. Of course, the game put one system between us (and that sucked for the way he designed his empire). That and a mineral problem.

[taterbill]

Yes, I learned not to sign up for KOTH when Slynky is lurking at the bottom of the hill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Seriously, I do think I learned a bit about playin head to head games. Hopefully will hold my own a bit better next time.

Good game Slynky.

tater

[narf poit chez BOOM]

KOTH nickname? Narf is good. anybody who knows me will know who it is. pbw name is the same as the forum.

yep, i'm bringing my hammers.

may the best mouse win, David. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[David E. Gervais]

Ok, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna try my luck at KoTH.

My PBW Name is AvatarMan.

Let me know who I have the horror (I mean honor) of fighting against. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. ahem, could I possibly start at the top and work my way down? It would be much easier that way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
sign me up. jump right in, both feet.

wonder if i'll make the record for the quickest defeat? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif i've only played in one pbw game and that ones still not finished. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just bring that hammer with ya http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[David E. Gervais]

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
may the best mouse win, David. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, My mouse is an optical illusion and very quiet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You know what I find strange Narf? THese KotH folks have been hungry for (how did the put it) "Fresh Meat" and what do they do? they pit the two newbs against each other instead of using us as stepping stools to move up the ladder.

....wait a minute,... I understand now, they are having us face each other so that in the next round (tier) of the KotH games they will walk all over the new kid on the block. So they will be greatly improving their chanches of getting to the upper levels. Gee, I don't know what will be worse beating you only to be squashed by the next player or loosing to you in the first round.

One thing for sure, it will be interesting.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Slynky]

Originally posted by David E. Gervais:
Ok, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna try my luck at KoTH.

My PBW Name is AvatarMan.

Let me know who I have the horror (I mean honor) of fighting against. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

P.S. ahem, could I possibly start at the top and work my way down? It would be much easier that way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Welcome aboard, David http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif .

[Atrocities]

There is a lot to learn in KOTH games. Just becareful you don't get stuck in horrible starting location like I did on my first game. Those super black holes can cost you dearly.

[taterbill]

Is there anybody else waiting at the bottom of the hill? Prefereably a noob like myself?

[Slynky]

Originally posted by taterbill:
Is there anybody else waiting at the bottom of the hill? Prefereably a noob like myself? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Someone will come tumbling down soon. Of course, ya just don't know who it will be http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Down to the bottom and off the hill for a bit for me. That's two times in a row that the warp points out of my home system led to nothing but nebulas. I could have stretched this one out longer, but there was no point. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for a good game. I had both a large and a huge breathable in my home system. Sorry to hear your start was so poor. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Gecko

[Phoenix-D]

When you got to the point where you plowed right through the largest mine group I could afford to launch, I knew I was screwed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Geckomlis]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
When you got to the point where you plowed right through the largest mine group I could afford to launch, I knew I was screwed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Looking at the post-surrender disposition, I realize now I also had you cornered much worse than I thought. And I agree, that really was an evil start for you. We need better maps for KOTH sometimes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Asmala]

Updated. There was quite a lot to update this time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif