Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?

[geoschmo]

So here’s this idea I had for a one on one SEIV ladder/league. It grew out of the discussion about the tournament Ragnorok is talking about starting.

The idea is kind of like a perpetual tournament, or as I like it call it, “King of the Hill”. The idea is we get as many people as want to join up and divide them into brackets of 8. All the games are one on one and from a bracket of 8 players you end up with 1 winner. Then you pair up the winners of 4 separate brackets in one on one games to decide the first King of the Hill.

So you’re reading this and thinking, no big deal. It just sounds like a 32 player single elimination tournament. And if we stopped now, that’s exactly what you’d end up with. But we aren’t going to stop there. Because just like the King of the Hill game we all played as kids, you don’t just get to the top and sit. You have to defend your crown. You have to fight to stay KOTH.

But not against just anybody that happens along. Being KOTH has its privileges. You only have to face the cream of the crop that rises up from the bottom of the hill. You are The King after all. So all those other guys get to fight it out amongst themselves for the honor of facing you in one on one competition. If they win, they become the new King. And if you do, well long live the King. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So here’s where things get interesting. Everybody else but the King that loses gets thrown into another bracket of 8, down at “the bottom of the hill”. Of course they don’t have to keep playing, they can always go home. But if they want to get to be KOTH they gotta join another bracket.

Players can play through as many brackets as it takes to get to KOTH, but they can only be in one bracket at a time of course. This type of setup could actually work for as few as 11 regular players, but it would work best I think for 24 or more. Otherwise the KOTH is sitting around on his throne for weeks at a time without being challenged.

So here’s an example of how it might work. Say we get 20 people to sign up. The first 16 would go in two brackets and start playing their way up the hill. The Last four would start a third bracket and wait for either four new people to join, or for four people to lose in the other two brackets that want another crack at the top. Once that bracket is full they start playing and another bracket starts. For that matter the brackets could start playing as soon as two people join, and just fill in as they go. The only stipulation would be if you lose a game you can't jump into an open spot in the same bracket You have to wait for a new bracket to form.

The winners of the first four brackets compete for the initial KOTH crown. While this is going on new brackets are forming all the time and new players, and old players that got knocked down are climbing back up. Hey, nobody said being King is easy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

After the original KOTH is crowned, things change a bit. From that point on there is always a KOTH sitting at the top. The winners of the next two brackets that finish play each other and the winner of that gets to play the KOTH. The KOTH has to accept the challenge of this player, but these are the only games he ever has to play to retain his title. He doesn’t have to play every schmo that comes along. The guys getting a shot at him will have earned the right by getting past 4 other guys in one on one combat. If the King doesn’t accept the challenge of a player that has rightfully earned his chance at the top then he abdicates and the challenger becomes the new KOTH.

So on and on it goes. As many players as want to play can play. Everybody will always either be KOTH, or playing a game, or waiting for a bracket to fill up. No need to really worry about seeding the brackets, they can just be filled as they go.

We’d need to come up with some rules about how frequent turns should be played, and whatnot. It would kind of suck to be stuck in a bracket waiting on some guys to finish their games that aren’t playing. And for that matter we could allow players to form their own brackets if they prefer. Get together with seven of your friends that you know are reliable and play each other to get to the KOTH. I am thinking that wouldn’t be too hard to work out. It should be fairly loose I think to keep it fun.

So, whatcha think?

[ March 13, 2003, 17:21: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[geoschmo]

Actually I thought about this some more and if you are filling brackets as you go you could allow players that lose to jump into open spots in the same bracket if you wanted. If you did this you could pull this thing off with an absolute minimum of 7 regular players.

Basically it would take five wins in a row to get the KOTH crown. Every loss would knock you to the bottom and you start over again.

Geoschmo

[Suicide Junkie]

This might work well in a turn blitz style too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Given a game turn limit of say 175, each bracket would finish in a week, and you'd have a continuous grinding warzone of a hill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

I am liking this idea so far. Turn blitz would totally be interesting as you'd be changing spots all the time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'd probably attempt to be KOTH. Key word, attempt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Fyron]

Turn blitz would remove the skill factor and make the KOTH dependant upon luck.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Turn blitz would remove the skill factor and make the KOTH dependant upon luck.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very true. It would be Blitz just with a ladder format and a KOTH.

[geoschmo]

Turn Blitz is good in small doses, but I don't think it would be too good for something like this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Stone Mill]

I dig this idea. Kind of like having sanctioned "Belts." And I bet we could dig up plenty of Don King type promoters, too.

I just need to re-read your Posts and let it sink in. Sounds entertaining, though.

[geoschmo]

Ok, I am going ahead with this. I was considering waiting till after Ragnorok got his tournament filled up cause I don't want to conflict with that. But since he's decided not to start till after the hoilidays and because this really is a different animal anyway being an ongoing ladder/league rather than a one time tournament I am going to go ahead and get it started.

I have revised the idea a bit after talking to some people. Reduced the brackets from 8 to 4. No it only takes 4 wins in a row to make it to King of the hill. I think this will give the mound a little more turnover. I don't want the King sitting around for weeks waiting on a contender. If anyone feels liek this would be too much, keep in mind you only have to play one game at a time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, I threw up a webpage with an idea fo the regulations. Check it out.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm

Feel free to make any suggestions, and shoot me an email if you want to play. You can say something here too if you want, but the official entries are by email. Be sure you give me your PBW username in the email, that is how I will list you on the website.

I will make as many or as few brackets as we have people that want to play. The winners of the first two brackets that complete will compete for the first "King of the Hill" title.

Good luck all.

Geoschmo

[ December 06, 2002, 01:37: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[Ragnarok]

I'll say it here and send an email. Count me in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Oh, and you don't have to worry about conflicting with the tourney I'm going to start. Nothing wrong with having both going. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Thermodyne]

I'm in, might as well get pounded by some of the best players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

What basic settings will these games have? (map size, starting planets, tech costs, etc.)

[dogscoff]

My suggestion: Keep a list of the complete history of Kings, saying who was king and for how long.

Maybe even create a current king "crown" icon that Kings can put in their sigs and avatars to show off, like a trophy.

[geoschmo]

Fyron, check the Koth page, that has the answers you seek. K.O.T.H. Page (http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm)

Dogscoff, awesome ideas. I will definetly want to do something like that.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Here ye, here ye! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Format has been revised. In keeping more with the King of the Hill theme, I have scrapped the brackets alltogether and we are left with just a hill. And the hill has levels. Levels Jerry! But no carpet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I like this cause you don't end up sitting around waiting for the other game in your bracket to finish before you can move on.

Already got 7 players, there is room for as many as want to join the league though. So come on.

http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm

I also added a forum in the PBW forums just for the K.O.T.H. League.

Geoschmo

[dogscoff]

To expand on my previous suggestion, I think you should have a page which lists of all previous kings and the current king. Then have a set of downloadable crown images that a person can wear by putting them into his/ her sig, avatar or webpage. Anyone found wearing royal attire without having earned it will be abused, ridiculed and generally ostracised.

Crown 1: "I once was king". Silver Crown. Can be worn by anyone who appears on the list of previous kings.
Crown 2: "King of the hill". Gold Crown. Can be worn only by the current king.
Crown 3: "King of Kings". Little picture of Elvis. Can be worn only the person who currently holds the record for most consecutive games on the throne. Someone who is the curretn king and the king of kings gets an icon of Elvis wearing a gold crown... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You could even go wild and award lesser royal titles to people who have never been king...

EDIT: I moved Elvis...

[ December 06, 2002, 17:15: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[tesco samoa]

hey did i not join this ???

Or is this a different Tourny

[geoschmo]

Tesco if you joined I missed it. This is not the tourney Ragnorak is setting up. This is a continual league, not really a tournament. If you want in send me an email and let me know.

Geoschmo

[Cheeze]

Maybe there are different kings.

Cruiserweight - 2000pts
Heavyweight - 3000pts
Super-Heavyweight - 5000pts

Who knows? Maybe some divisions will have different kings, and some players perform worse or better with different types of empires.

[Fyron]

The number of racial points used shouldn't cause you to play worse than you normally would.

[geoschmo]

Yeah, I think the extra complication is unneccesary. I have said I'd start a new hill for Pre-Gold if I get the demand for it. And I suppose people could want a "Team Hill", maybe with 2v2 or 3v3 team games. I really like one on one games though. It's a personal prefereance, not saying everybody has to share it of course. The games just go so quickly.

But I agree with Fyron I don't see a need for different crowns based on game settings. Regardless of the game settings everybody in the game is using the same settings so it shouldn't make a difference.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Ok, I have been playing around with the format on the league page. Trying to make it look sort of SEIV like, sort of PBW like. I also added some links to the games for each matchup in case you are curious what the progress of them is. Let me know what you think.

K.O.T.H. League page (http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm)

[ December 08, 2002, 18:58: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

[tesco samoa]

how many planets at the start ?

[Fyron]

Had you bothered to read the page, you would have seen this:

All games in the K.O.T.H. league are one-on-one games of SEIV and are to be played on PBW. The default game settings for K.O.T.H. League games will be small midlife cluster, no A.I or neutral players, and everything else will be the default SEIV game settings. Any of these settings can be changed with the mutual consent of both players.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suppose I could be the king of the hill. Count me in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[spoon]

What's the default Turn Duration, if one can't be agreed upon by the two players?

Also, you might save some time by making me KOTH now, instead of making me crush and humiliate otherwise friendly players.

-Spoon

[Gandalph]

The bravado of SE IV players never ceases to amaze me.

[tesco samoa]

Default settings... Got it.
1 planet
2000 racial points
not so great planet start.

[Baron Grazic]

For all you people out there who, like myself, have missed out on the recent Tournments because you do not own Gold, good news.

Geoschmo is so kind, that he is going to have a Non-Gold (SE IV 1.49) K.O.T.H match up too.

To Apply follow the Same Rules but specify that you are a non-gold Space Empires player.

Web page - http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth149.htm

[ December 08, 2002, 23:34: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Cheeze]

Fyron, that could be true, but perhaps some people play better when they can choose and use more varied racial traits and special technologies, where the choices might make other players pause or really develop much more slowly and in directions that don't aid them much. Some players may work better in 1 on 1 games, and others may play better when there are many players, using politics and allies to gain advantages.

I agree that the format is simple and allows for quick gameplay and resolution. As long as there is much rending and shrieking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 09, 2002, 02:23: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[sparhawk]

Looking good, I'm in for this challange http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

count me in Geoschmo!!

sparhawk

[1FSTCAT]

Oh yeah! I'm IN, baby, I'm IN....

--Ed

[Stone Mill]

Oh what the heck... I fear I am getting into too many games already, but I can't resist this one.

I played KOTH as a kid and it just feels like a good time.

[spoon]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

I'll have to think about that one a bit. I don't want to complicate things too much. I kind of like the simplicity.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like too much room for complaint/abuse. Players can always negotiate for the settings they want - most players will likely be amenable to suggested changes, anyway.

Though I do suggest that if you wish to minimize the impact of randomness in these games, that you disable ruins and events by default. (Though I suspect that minimizing randomness isn't a goal for these games...)

Another unrelated idea is to give the current King the ability to enforce whatever game settings he wants...

Finally - what is considered "default" for Turn Duration?

-Spoon

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:
[QUOTE]
Finally - what is considered "default" for Turn Duration?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is something I have intentionally left alone. I think what most people will find, especially those with little one-on-one experience, is that the games go very fast. Simply by logging onto PBW once a day you can manage two turns a day. Since the turn should process once you upload a turn and then you can do another turn. Gandalph and I started on Saturday and we have already played 30 turns. I wouldn't expect everyone to be able to do that of course.

Another thing you will notice is that when you know the game is waiting on you and you alone, it tends to focus you and make you be more regular with the turns. In a ten or 15 player game the incentive to get your turn in quickly really isn't there because you will likely have to wait on a couple other people anyway.

As long as neither player has simply wandered off the speed of the games shouldn't be a tremendous problem. I don't think we need to mandate it. I would be happy saying the default is after Last player uploads and then just have a talk with anybody that appears to be abusing that.

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Cheeze:
Fyron, that could be true, but perhaps some people play better when they can choose and use more varied racial traits and special technologies, where the choices might make other players pause or really develop much more slowly and in directions that don't aid them much. Some players may work better in 1 on 1 games, and others may play better when there are many players, using politics and allies to gain advantages.

I agree that the format is simple and allows for quick gameplay and resolution. As long as there is much rending and shrieking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If that is the case, they just need more practice in more varied environments. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[TerranC]

OOOh, OOOh, I wanna join.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
Oh what the heck... I fear I am getting into too many games already, but I can't resist this one.

I played KOTH as a kid and it just feels like a good time.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by TerranC:
OOOh, OOOh, I wanna join.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Anybody that wants to join needs to send me an email with their PBW username.

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Gees Geo, you won quick. What turn did you make it to? Last turn I saw on the game was like 2.9. You guys must have started really close together. It makes me worry that if I win the game between me and Thermodyne that I have to face you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif But that's IF I win... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Thermodyne]

Who were you playing against Geo? How many turns did it go?

Don’t worry too much Ragnarok, everyone beats me in SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Gandalph]

It was me, it went 52 turns, we did start close, and he got bigger better ships before I did.

[geoschmo]

Cheeze, that is a valid point. Perhaps I should institute some sort of system for choosing game settings where the players don't have to agree on everything. Maybe the other guy doesn't want 5000 racial points, but you do. As it is now you'd have to lump it because both players have to agree for a setting to be changed. But what if you could say force the racial point change, but in return he got to change another game setting of his choice of another game setting that you could not object too.

I'll have to think about that one a bit. I don't want to complicate things too much. I kind of like the simplicity.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Yeah, it seems like we went really fast and all cause we burned through the turns. We did like 15 today I think.

Gandalph is a good player. I got lucky.

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Ok, I ave been playing around some with the idea of statistics. Check out the K.O.T.H. League Page (http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm) and tell me what you think.

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ok, I ave been playing around some with the idea of statistics. Check out the K.O.T.H. League Page (http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm) and tell me what you think.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks good. I like it.

And speak of burning through turns. Last night me and Therm had to have done at least 15 if not more. At least I think, I don't know I can't really remember Last night much, stupid flu.

[Thermodyne]

22 turns on the 8th, and that was after a few start up problems. 12 so far today. Sorry to hear you are sick Rag’s, but that will make it even. I have the sore throat from hell, caught it moving this damn snow over the weekend.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
22 turns on the 8th, and that was after a few start up problems. 12 so far today. Sorry to hear you are sick Rag’s, but that will make it even. I have the sore throat from hell, caught it moving this damn snow over the weekend.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man that sux. Sore throats are the worst. Hopefully this will be the only time I get sick for the winter. Normally I don't get sick that much so I'm hoping. But I hope you get to feeling better Therm. I woke up this morning and seem to be ok. Or at least not as bad as I was yesterday, so it must have been a 24 hour bug for me. Even though my mom had it for like a week.

[dogscoff]

I have the sore throat from hell, caught it moving this damn snow over the weekend.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My recipe for any and all winter illnesses. I'm currently administering this to my g/friend non-stop recently, as she is wrapped up in bed with all kinds of symptoms:

* Juice of one lemon
* 2 heaped teaspoons of honey
* Some brandy, rum or whisky
* Top up with boiling water
* Add sugar to taste.
You can also dissolve eucalyptus sore-throat sweets (ie lockets) in there for added kick.

A regular supply of this, combined with bedrest & lots of hot tea and spicy food (Madras recommended), will knock any cough/ cold/ sore throat/ flu on the head within a day or two.

Oh, and if you have a slight temperature try to avoid paracetamol/ aspirin. These will reduce your temperature, and a high temperature will kill the bugs making you ill. Obviously if it goes too high it will kill you too, but the bugs will kick the bucket long before you do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[geoschmo]

Brandy, honey, lemon, sugar, spicy food, wrapped up in bed with your girl friend. I don't know Dogscoff, sounds like a good prescription even if you don't have a cold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[tesco samoa]

girl friend eh ? think the wife will mind

[geoschmo]

Well, in my case the wife is my girlfriend, so I don't think she will. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Thermodyne]

In the tropics they use hot peppers to cure sore throats, and further north they swear that vodka is the way to go. So I ate some peppers and gargled with some nasty tasting old soviet vodka. One of them worked, I feel good today http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

So back on topic here...

The K.O.T.H. league has over a dozen players now, but the 1.49 K.O.T.H. league has not been overwhelmed by response as of yet. I know it's only been a couple days.

One thing I'd like to point out, for those of you real masochists out there that have Gold and still have the Pre-Gold Version of SEIV, there is nothing stopping you from joining both leagues if you want. The diffence in leagues is only there so that 1.49 only players can participate. In either league you can play either Version if both of you have it. It's just that in the 1.49 league the default Version is 1.49, so you must have at least that, and the Gold league is the opposite.

So technically it's possisible for one person to hold both K.O.T.H. crowns simultaneously. Allthough it's probably a little unlikely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:

So technically it's possisible for one person to hold both K.O.T.H. crowns simultaneously. Allthough it's probably a little unlikely. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only way that happens is if your name is Fyron or Geoschmo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

I'm not _that_ good people. Sheesh.

[Thermodyne]

Rag’s and I are 70 few turns in now, 37 today. The dieing has started in earnest, and the evil legions of the dead are on the march again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Pablo]

Geo,
I've sent you an e-mail so count me in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
edit: I'm in SEIVGold game

[ December 11, 2002, 14:25: Message edited by: Pablo ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Rag’s and I are 70 few turns in now, 37 today. The dieing has started in earnest, and the evil legions of the dead are on the march again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They are on the march indeed, took out two of my systems so far. But I'll stick my foot out and trip that march up. Hopefully. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
They are on the march indeed, took out two of my systems so far. But I'll stick my foot out and trip that march up. Hopefully. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that the "trip" will occur in the Hythe system, which has just recently become Thermolian. A Thermolian scout fleet consisting of 18 B-class destroyers and scout cruisers along with 1 bomber and 11 axillaries will make a stand in defense of Hythe III. It should be a battle of note, with the Thermolians outnumbered 3 to 2 and out gunned by about 5 to 2. Add to that the skill and bravery of the Thermolians, along with superior tactics, and you have the makings of a real good fight. Stay tuned updates as they occur.

[geoschmo]

I am just hoping you guys take a while longer to resolve it so I don't have to play either one of you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ruatha]

Hmm, Real life is a bother, it takes to much time from SE4, will join K.O.T.H. when the kids grow up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Ragnarok]

Ok, that moved sucked. I lost 31 pure LC war ships to his fleet of 30 not all war ship fleet. He had a bunch of mining ships and so forth. I just can't hit anything when I go into battle. Ahh well, that was a major loss for my empire. Soon it will fight another great battle.

[Thermodyne]

Thermolian long range gunnery carried the day! At a cost of two scout cruisers we have won a major victory and gained a new de-mining ship. In honor of the day we have renamed the planet. It now exists as a testament to a great teacher of Thermolian war tactics.

[SamuraiProgrammer]

Earlier in the post, there was mention of finding a way to allow the players to negotiate settings for the game. I have an idea that might be interesting.

This idea originally comes from the Phaze series by Piers Anthony. In these books, there was constant open competetion in games by many of the denizens of the planet where the book was set. People were ranked globally on their ability to compete. The competitions could be anything from sports to parlor games to art or anything else you could imagine.

Whenever a challenge would go out, the two contestants would go through a selection process that determined which contest they would compete at. Each contestant would try to influence the choice to an area of competition that they excelled at.

Essentially, they alternated choices that would progressively narrow the pool of available contests until the determination was complete.

It shouldn't be too hard to set up a series of questions that the players could alternate in answering that would result in a rules package. The trick would be to make the most important questions come first so that the alternation of choices made it fair.

Alternatively, each player could 'nail down' any piece of the rules puzzle when it was his turn to choose. The trick here would be to judge which sets of rules should be picked together for cohesiveness or if there should be any sets.

I am rambling... it is just an idea. Post what you think & before long we might have a pretty good way of determining a rules package.

It might also be useful if the scheme worked for more than 2 players. That way a group could fairly determine what rules to use.

thanks for listening to my $0.02

Have fun!

[Stone Mill]

Geoschmo,

Great job with this concept. The league page is very nice too! You have already chalked up the first victory, I see. Congrats.

How the heck do you do so much, I'll never know. You must not need sleep.

Cheers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Pablo]

Geo,
In the game 'KOTH Stonemill vs Pablo' please make turn duration 'after Last player upload'. Thanx http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

Right. Done Pablo.

[Ragnarok]

I am now fighting a most likely lost battle. I won a major battle but now my ships don't seem as effective. It is probably just a matter of time now. I will give it my all though. It has been a well fought game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Thermodyne]

First battle for a home world is about to begin. It would make a nice Thermolian vacation world, that is unless I have to glass it.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
I am now fighting a most likely lost battle. I won a major battle but now my ships don't seem as effective. It is probably just a matter of time now. I will give it my all though. It has been a well fought game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When you killed the Exploration Fleet in your home system, you were fighting against some very old ships. When you lost the fleet trying to break out of your other home system (I forget the name of it), you were up against ships that were several generations newer, and with updated tactics.

[geoschmo]

SE4 axiom: Winning a battle in your space is not a victory. Keeping the enemy out of your space to begin with is a victory.

[Thermodyne]

Scratch one home world and 4000m people, tonight they are Thermolian. And really liking it a lot. That’s strange: 150 or so Thermolian troops land on their world an ravage the heck out of it, all the while a big ole fleet is killing everything that moves, and the locals are happy about it. They must have been real pissed off before we got there.

[tesco samoa]

I heard they were using your race as filler while waiting for the Samoans to drop by with Long Island Ice Tea's which makes everyone happy...

[tesco samoa]

Congrats on enjoying your game... May it go another 150 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Grazic]

The first Non-Gold game is now underway, between myself and Yulroy.

Still awaiting more non-gold players to sign up.

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I heard they were using your race as filler while waiting for the Samoans to drop by with Long Island Ice Tea's which makes everyone happy...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, to heck with them, just bring it all to my house and we will start the New Years party early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Open House at Thermodyne's place... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I'll bring the Bundy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Could be a short game over in the Non-Gold arena. It's now turn 4 and Communication has been made.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
SE4 axiom: Winning a battle in your space is not a victory. Keeping the enemy out of your space to begin with is a victory.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shhh, you didn't have to bring that up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Scratch one home world and 4000m people, tonight they are Thermolian. And really liking it a lot. That’s strange: 150 or so Thermolian troops land on their world an ravage the heck out of it, all the while a big ole fleet is killing everything that moves, and the locals are happy about it. They must have been real pissed off before we got there.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually they weren't mad at all. They were Jubilant. Well, until you went and took them away from their great leader! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif But it has been a great game. Enjoyed ever bit of having my arse handed to me in bits and pieces.

[Thermodyne]

Home World #2 is now Thermolian, should be a clean sweep next turn. I was looking at the stats for my ships and I had one light cruiser design that caught my eye. I built 7 of them, and for the loss of 4 of their own, they killed 17mt of enemy shipping.

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Scratch one home world and 4000m people, tonight they are Thermolian. And really liking it a lot. That’s strange: 150 or so Thermolian troops land on their world an ravage the heck out of it, all the while a big ole fleet is killing everything that moves, and the locals are happy about it. They must have been real pissed off before we got there.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually they weren't mad at all. They were Jubilant. Well, until you went and took them away from their great leader! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif But it has been a great game. Enjoyed ever bit of having my arse handed to me in bits and pieces.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did kind of give you a little taste of a whole bunch of different things. But it has been a very good game, well probably more so from my point of view. But it has been fast paced and until about turn 80, could have gone either way. This will be my first PBW victory, my first over a human I think. I took a lot of beatings at the hands of the Aqualians[sp] to get this far. So I guess I will owe this one to my friend JL.

[Thermodyne]

It’s a clean sweep now, 12000m new Thermolians, and all ready to party!

[Thermodyne]

The war continues to go well; the Last known Sumiak Assault fleet just spent itself against a little Territorial Guards Fleet and some fast attack cruisers that had been shadowing the Sumiak fleet from my side of the frontier. Just some scattered colonies left to mop up now.

[geoschmo]

Sounds like Rags has you right where he wants you. He is obviously practicing the time tested strategy of "SEIV Judo", where you use your opponents strength and size agasint him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Sounds like Rags has you right where he wants you. He is obviously practicing the time tested strategy of "SEIV Judo", where you use your opponents strength and size agasint him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If only that were the case. There was no chance of coming back in that war. I was heavily out numbered, out gunned, out teched, and out smarted. A very good game. I just surrendered my empire to the Thermolians as I lost my Last fleet of 20 ships and my Last change that lied within them. Kudos to you Thermodyne.

Geo, I am reporting the loss now. For the KOTH site, the information for the game is, it went 122 turns. Game end date is 12-13-02. Game start was, I do not remember and I don't have my first save game file.

[geoschmo]

Ah, well. Such is life. Do you want rematched right away Rags? I think I have someone waiting on an opponent, I will have to check my emails.

So Thermo. It's mano y mano. Do you recall the results the Last time you and I faced off? You might not, it ended so quickly . I sure do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Of course that was SE3... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[Thermodyne]

This was a very good game, from about turn 50 on it was full of tension and activity. I must also say that Rags is a very reliable player. I tend to do a lot of turns in a short period of time and he stayed right with me. I would recommend him as an adversary or an ally any time. Thanks for the game Rag’s

Thermodyne

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ah, well. Such is life. Do you want rematched right away Rags? I think I have someone waiting on an opponent, I will have to check my emails.

So Thermo. It's mano y mano. Do you recall the results the Last time you and I faced off? You might not, it ended so quickly . I sure do. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Of course that was SE3... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, can’t say that I do. Did I win? Sounds like it might have been one of those 12 turn SE3 games. I think I might be found lacking this time around. Unless you want to do SE3 again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Nope, can’t say that I do. Did I win? Sounds like it might have been one of those 12 turn SE3 games. I think I might be found lacking this time around. Unless you want to do SE3 again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hah! 12 turns! You DO remember you sly dog. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

No, ahem. I don't think we'll be playing Se3 this time.

Geoschmo

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Ah, well. Such is life. Do you want rematched right away Rags? I think I have someone waiting on an opponent, I will have to check my emails.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you have someone waiting for someone to play against sure I am willing to get going right away.

This was a very good game, from about turn 50 on it was full of tension and activity. I must also say that Rags is a very reliable player. I tend to do a lot of turns in a short period of time and he stayed right with me. I would recommend him as an adversary or an ally any time. Thanks for the game Rag’s

Thermodyne
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the comments man. You were a great adversary as well. Look forward to meeting you again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And I was more then happy to keep the pace going for turns. It was nice to have a fast moving game for once. Usually I am waiting for turns all the time and I am bored. But with this I had something to do at all times.
Good luck to you and Geo both in the next round. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Pablo]

I love the KOTH! This is the most interesting game I've played before because you cannot rely on your allies (because there are none) and must play alone. With stock AI that was not a problem but with real profs... well... Stonemill is making me some troubles with a single ship!! That is what I call the beauty of SE4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Every time you play with a strong player - you learn _A LOT_ of useful and interesting things.
Geo thanx for the opportunity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Grazic]

I gotta disagree with Pablo, I'm not loving the KOTH game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Round 7 came in a Yulroy attacked my home world with his missile frigate, took out my only defender and then my Space Yard, which was just about to roll out another ship.

I'm going for the quickest loss of all time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Pablo]

Baron, don't be so sure about the fastest loss untill I finish my game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
But NOW you will now that you shouldn't leave your HW without defence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
And what is good about KOTH - you can lose whatever number of games you like. You will still be able to play (nevertheless from the bottom) and learn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Baron Grazic:
I gotta disagree with Pablo, I'm not loving the KOTH game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Round 7 came in a Yulroy attacked my home world with his missile frigate, took out my only defender and then my Space Yard, which was just about to roll out another ship.

I'm going for the quickest loss of all time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What turn # you at? 52 so far is the lowest count in the tourney. The highest is 122. But I am sure those numbers are going to change in a matter of just a few days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Stone Mill]

I love the KOTH! This is the most interesting game I've played before because you cannot rely on your allies (because there are none) and must play alone. With stock AI that was not a problem but with real profs... well... Stonemill is making me some troubles with a single ship!! That is what I call the beauty of SE4 Every time you play with a strong player - you learn _A LOT_ of useful and interesting things.
Geo thanx for the opportunity <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes I agree. Very fun. Pablo and I have ripped through over twenty turns today. The guy must be a machine; never eats or uses the restroom?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif By the time I rush through my turn and upload it, another one is generated!! The action is fast, and Pablo is doing well.

Pablo, I have to chuckle a bit about that "single ship" I know you won't let me get away with that again. That is good old clean behind the lines harassment . You are a fun opponent, I hope you don't learn too fast.

Our game is still way up in the air! On guard!

[Pablo]

Stone Mill,
you are really good with that 'one ship' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif maybe you log the number of ships I've lost because of it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ))
I _think_ I am learning fast but you will have to find it out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Well its now official.
I'm the biggest loser of KOTH. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Turn 2400.8 and I'm dead... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Congrats to Yulroy, and Thanks to Geo for a 'great' tournie... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Turn EIGHT? What did you do, start next door to him? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Baron Grazic]

We started as neighbours, Yulroy built 2 Frigates to start with, I built a Colony ship & then Space Yard Station. He warped into my system - and attacked my Home Planet. After the first battle, I lost my Space Yard Station and 1 facility. Can you guess which facility? Yep - My Space Yard. After that - Game over.

[DarkAngel]

excuse the newbie question,but where is this site you speak of? and what is KOTH?

[Pablo]

here: http://seiv.pbw.cc/koth.htm

[geoschmo]

Baron, not sure if it would have helped, but next time that happens emergency build some missle sats. His missle frigates would not have been able to target them, and while it was busy bLasting the planet your sats could knock out the frigates.

Unless of course you had the bad luck of your sats being launched on the wrong side of the planet and being out of range. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Sometimes there is nothing you can do.

Geoschmo

[Pablo]

Play & learn everytime http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Baron, not sure if it would have helped, but next time that happens emergency build some missle sats. His missle frigates would not have been able to target them, and while it was busy bLasting the planet your sats could knock out the frigates.

Unless of course you had the bad luck of your sats being launched on the wrong side of the planet and being out of range. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Sometimes there is nothing you can do.

Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">2 missile platforms will always work before point defense is discovered and it makes your population happy to win the battle thereby increasing production.

[tesco samoa]

my game is barren... i forgot how there is a complete lack of planets... or did geo design this map... it is brutal... stay tuned for a long game...

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
2 missile platforms will always work before point defense is discovered and it makes your population happy to win the battle thereby increasing production.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">True, but the weapons platforms will take damage and if they are destroyed you are back to being defenseless. The ideal would be both, but he didn't have time for that.

I guess the moral is, don't build only colonizers in the first turns if your opponent is starting right next door and is building frigates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Well, I don't know if it's a record for PBW or not, and I am sure there have been TCP/IP games and hotseat games play more turns, but Thermo and I have played 40 turns today. That's a record for any PBW game I have ever been a part of.

Geoschmo

[Thermodyne]

I think it is safe to say that I will live to 50 turns, but 100 might be another story.

[Zarix]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
my game is barren... i forgot how there is a complete lack of planets... or did geo design this map... it is brutal... stay tuned for a long game...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It will be a long game. Turn 25 and no first contact. We are probably as far away from each other as possible.

[Gozra]

Are there any standings to report? Have any been posted yet? Question: Should we have a set of Maps that players can choose to play on? Having Planets in adjacent systems seems a bit to close. But I am all for quick games.

[ December 15, 2002, 16:43: Message edited by: Gozra ]

[Thermodyne]

I think that random maps are better. That way you will never know what you are going to get, and will have to be prepared for every eventuality.

[tesco samoa]

Random maps are good... Fryon's maps are better... But Custom maps designed for 2 players is best.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Stone Mill]

I agree with Thermo... I like the effect of random maps (and placement). It gives aggressive players a chance for an early win. Although, I am a very conservative player by heart... I think one thing I will definitely learn from these games is how to attempt an early victory. By nature, I avoid early wars because it hurts expansion way too much.

Tesco- what types of "custom maps" did you have in mind, and how in your opinion would they be designed for 2 players?

One thing that comes to mind is to use small maps, to expedite games.

[ December 15, 2002, 17:39: Message edited by: Stone Mill ]

[Gandalph]

Well, 1FSTCAT and I had just started to rock and roll on turns when the server went down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[tesco samoa]

you can randomly create the map... and have two defined starting positions...

Then change the warp points... So that each empire is say located at a good distance away from each other... And add some surprises... Also maps can be reused by changing the warp points... And then you can also have players replay maps etc... to see what the outcome will be later on....

[Pablo]

I just got back from a party to make some turns and the server is down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Stone Mill]

Geo-

On the KOTH page, I definitely see the need for a "Successful Title Defenses," or "Defended the Hill" column. This will track victories at the top, which is the most important stat.

What do you think?

Onward to glory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Pablo]

Yeah, I would agree with StoneMill. Near the KOTH box there may be top 3 kings displayed that defended the Hill maximum number of times and the players' stats link would be available near that to see the score of all players.

[tesco samoa]

know what else would be cool.

Click on a player and see there history..
Who they played and who won and turn lenghts and settings...

THat would be cool

[Cheeze]

It would truly be brutal if, right in the middle of one "King of the Hill" match, a third player suddenly entered and helped one player double-team and beat the King. Of course, that would end up in multiple feuds, tag team matches, and long-running game grudges and such.

Pity it is beyond the game's programming..at least yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Gozra]

Not Really you could have neutural players in the game and the host could randomly activate them. But I think that would be another tourneament./contest

[Stone Mill]

Cheeze,

I'm amazed that everything in life can be reflected in a Professional Wrestling analogy.

Just because we are the Galactic Tag Team Champs of "Duplicity" does not mean you can clobber someone with a steel chair from behind while doing their SEIV turn!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Even thought the game went against me, I think Random maps are better.

I started in the second system from the bottom right and didn't expect Yulroy to be in the bottom right corner. When I discovered that, I was thinking about how I could box him in and expand into the rest of the systems. Unforntunetly his first attack took out my Space Yard facility, which stopped my defenders from being built (I had 15% bonus in Space Yard constuction) effectively killing me.

If we were playing a custom map, I never would have learned to defend my Home System in the first 1-4 turns.

Geo - You want to delete our Game on PBW, I don't want to be reminder any more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Cheeze]

When I can't find a way to reference something in terms of pro-wrestling, I'll worry.

You have revealed my plan for winning in "The Good, Bad, Ugly and Dead"!! Damn you!!!

[ December 15, 2002, 23:46: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[Stone Mill]

Ya know... now that I think of it...

Don't knock this entirely just yet... but think of the way KOTH is played in real life. Maybe there is room for something like it here.

Once you are on top of the hill, you are ganged up upon!! The odds are not 1 on 1 for long.

OK OK I know it's a bit absurd, but at least I'll entertain myself with the thought. What if...
after your first defense at the top of the Hill, you then have to defend yourself 1 on 2, then 1 on 3!!! Now THAT would be a feat.

OK, back to reality... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[geoschmo]

So Stonemill, if we did something like this who would be the new king of the hill?

[Suicide Junkie]

Whoever backstabs the best after taking out the old King? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Baron Grazic]

Sounds like it would make great commentary for the rest of the KOTH players...

"And Geoschmo, our current KOTH Champion, has Cheeze stuck in the corner with Dreadnaughts on one side, BaseShips on the other...
Oh, No...
What is that Stone Mill???
Where did Suicide Junkie come from...
He has...
It's...
On no, It's a Star Destroyer...
Suicide Junkie can't do this, can he Stone Mill???
And Geoschmo, he hasn't seen his danage yet.
Its entering Geoschmo's Home World...
This is the end, Stone Mill...
I can't watch...

[ December 16, 2002, 01:30: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Stone Mill]

LOL great play-by play, Baron!

Posted by Geoschmo:
So Stonemill, if we did something like this who would be the new king of the hill?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yes, that DOES pose a problem, now, doesn't it?

Well, as S.J. says, (I think), maybe it's the one who backstabs best! Uh, well, errr... just how do we prove that?

Well maybe this has application as some kind of special event outside the regular KOTH rules. We can call it a pay-per-view special!
Add all kind of random events, player entries, and chaos. Hilarity ensues.

Regular KOTH is easiest to manage with "Thunderdome" Rules: "Two man enter... one man leave."

More fun brainstorming:

The Royal Rumble: 20 players draw lots. Each player enters the game according to his draw every 5 turns. One winner. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Thermodyne]

Chalk one up for Geo, and send me to the bottom where I belong. I stand soundly defeated at turn 64. The game could have continued for a while, but I could not have won.

[Cheeze]

Zounds!! My madness is spreading and infecting others!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Stone Mill]

Ok... This time I think I have an honest-to-goodness cool suggestion!

The title holder for KOTH should have a neat KOTH championship icon added to his/her signature block! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Past winners of the KOTH should have a small, (but not as nice) "former KOTH" icon.

Perhaps one of our fantastic celebrity artists can come up with something? Maybe it looks like a championship belt?

What do you think?

[geoschmo]

Stone Mill, that is a good suggestion. It's just not an original one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you read back through the nine pages of Posts here we had much discussion about doing soemthing exactly like that. Since we don't have a K.O.T.H. yet, we tabled it for the moment. But I imagine it will come up again in a few weeks.

Geoschmo

[Stone Mill]

Ah, Geo. Yes, I knew it rang a bell.

Sorry Dogscoff!!

Crown 1: "I once was king". Silver Crown. Can be worn by anyone who appears on the list of previous kings.
Crown 2: "King of the hill". Gold Crown. Can be worn only by the current king.
Crown 3: "King of Kings". Little picture of Elvis. Can be worn only the person who currently holds the record for most consecutive games on the throne. Someone who is the curretn king and the king of kings gets an icon of Elvis wearing a gold crown...

You could even go wild and award lesser royal titles to people who have never been king...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, I really like your suggestions! Maybe we can ask David G? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[tesco samoa]

geo what are u doing sitting way up there all by your self... Man...

People are going to start thinking your a really good player and start gunning for you in other games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

Dang dude, you're moving up the 'hill' fast. Not even another player in the lower bracket. Me and PhoenixD are at turn 67 and he is winning. I didn't have the greatest starting position and his ships are more advanced then mine. Due to the fact that I am not the best player when it comes low tech start with medium start. I guess I should practice with that setting against the AI for awhile eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif But I am sure we will break the 100 turn mark.

[Suicide Junkie]

Well, as S.J. says, (I think), maybe it's the one who backstabs best! Uh, well, errr... just how do we prove that?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quite simple, really. The two contenders defeat the old King, and then backstab eachother. Last empire standing takes the crown.

[Stone Mill]

Quite simple, really. The two contenders defeat the old King, and then backstab eachother. Last empire standing takes the crown. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So in reality, this turns it into a 3-way dance. Seems like the best players will be playing defensively, and may just go to war with everyone from the beginning. There is nothing really compelling the two challengers to work together, when you think of it.

Nonetheless, I still like the concept. But for Geo, it may be tough to administrate.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
geo what are u doing sitting way up there all by your self... Man...

People are going to start thinking your a really good player and start gunning for you in other games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a lot of experience in one on one games. And my strengths at SE4 tend to show up in the early game. What I do here is not neccesarily indicative of my performance in other games. The two player SE4 game really is a different animal than a larger field.

But there are players that can and have beat me in one on one before. A couple are in the league, I just haven't faced them yet. And the guys I beat could beat me if we played again. I got a little lucky and took advantage of a couple small mistakes.

Geoschmo

[Pablo]

Geo,
you can 'praise' yourself as a 'bad' player but I feel better that I'm loosing the first round. At least for now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif because this is my first (and not only mine) experience in 1-on-1 game. Would be an easy snack for ya http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

Edit: Totally misread Pablos post. Information there in didn't make any sense. Sorry about that.

[ December 16, 2002, 21:44: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[geoschmo]

Pablo crackers. Yum! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

PhoenixD is about to win. He is wiping out my planets as we speak. I do not have the forces or enough shipyards to come back. (I suck at this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) But it is only a mere formality now. Game will be over this evening probably.

[Phoenix-D]

"Not even another player in the lower bracket. Me and PhoenixD are at turn 67 and he is winning. I didn't have the greatest starting position and his ships are more advanced then mine. Due to the fact that I am not the best player when it comes low tech start with medium start. I guess I should practice with that setting against the AI for awhile eh? But I am sure we will break the 100 turn mark."

Especially if I keep running my main attack fleet out of gas..oops. Actually when my first attack fleet hit that minefield, I thought I was through. I was going for a quick kill..and the only thing that saved my was finding a few huge breathables in the south. Bad start? You had three breathables in your home system! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

EDIT: Oh, and the fact that I had a big agressive/defensive advantage, and you went direct-fire, didn't hurt either. You scared the living heck out of my when we first met. Relgious AND temporal AND a shipyard advantage? Yike.

Phoenix-D

[ December 16, 2002, 23:25: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

[Ragnarok]

"Especially if I keep running my main attack fleet out of gas..oops. Actually when my first attack fleet hit that minefield, I thought I was through. I was going for a quick kill..and the only thing that saved my was finding a few huge breathables in the south. Bad start? You had three breathables in your home system!"

Yeah I had three in my home system. But the systems around me basically sucked. One thing I need to learn how to do is manage my resources a little bit better. I could've hurt you bad at that point when you thought you were done for if I had not run out of minerals. When I play a turn I always make sure I'm making money at the end of the turn. But in this game you attacked so early so I was trying to get defensive ships out and research the right technologies to defend myself. Was a tough feat to do.

"EDIT: Oh, and the fact that I had a big agressive/defensive advantage, and you went direct-fire, didn't hurt either. You scared the living heck out of my when we first met. Relgious AND temporal AND a shipyard advantage? Yike."
So that is why you whooped me so bad in those battles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif But the thing about Religious and Temporal in a game such as this, low start medium cost, is that it's tough to dedicate the time needed to research those fields. So I never even got to research the first steps in those areas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All in all a good game. I learned a couple new things and hopefully I can use that to my advantage.

Ok, I officially surrendered. Game went 103 turns. Good game PhoenixD! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Edit:
"Actually when my first attack fleet hit that minefield, I thought I was through. I was going for a quick kill..and the only thing that saved my was finding a few huge breathables in the south."

I knew my only chance to stay close with that fleet in there was to get mines out. Which saved me for a few turns but my ships just couldn't do nothing against yours.

[ December 17, 2002, 00:04: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Phoenix-D]

Good game. Hmm, eight colonies left.

Getting a spacial distorition into the enemy home system is weird. Getting two in one game to the *same sector* of that system..

I had to attack, or loose. I had a only slightly better prospects than you, and all my expansion oppurtuniy was either straight at you or waaay down south.

Phoenix-D

[Ragnarok]

"Getting a spacial distorition into the enemy home system is weird. Getting two in one game to the *same sector* of that system.."

I know, that was extreamly odd. Worked out for you, gave you some recon while in there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

"I had to attack, or loose. I had a only slightly better prospects than you, and all my expansion oppurtuniy was either straight at you or waaay down south."

I see, I knew you would be to the west of me and not south, so I tried to avoid going to the east for a few turns whiel I established some colonies around the system down south. But it didn't work out... I shouldn't be so conservitive next time either. I should take it to the house unstead of waiting on the house to crumble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Phoenix-D]

"I knew you would be to the west of me and not south"

Hmm. How?

Phoenix-D

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"I knew you would be to the west of me and not south"

Hmm. How?

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I didn't really know, I just had a feeling. Usually in 2 player games you can sort of guess where the computer will place people. Sure, sometimes you're way off but 75% of the time you can guess in which general direction they are in. Unless you start in the middle of course.

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
"I knew you would be to the west of me and not south"

Hmm. How?

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I didn't really know, I just had a feeling. Usually in 2 player games you can sort of guess where the computer will place people. Sure, sometimes you're way off but 75% of the time you can guess in which general direction they are in. Unless you start in the middle of course.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, I must be in the middle then cuz I've got 1FSTCAT on both sides of me pressing me early.

[Phoenix-D]

Umm, Geo? Is there a reason the league page shows the middle of the hill as having 3 game slots (6 players) and the top as 2 (4 players)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[Pablo]

Yep, that seems strange or I am too addicted to a football type of championship. 16-8-4-2-1 or something like that...
Way too late now. Goodnight.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Umm, Geo? Is there a reason the league page shows the middle of the hill as having 3 game slots (6 players) and the top as 2 (4 players)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have been experimenting with the league page a litte today. I wanted to make it more pyramid shaped to follow the hill theme. I also am considering throwing out any sort of limits of how many players can be on each level.

Don't think of needing four games in one level to get two games in the next. It's not a regular tourney format like football playoffs or anything. As each game ends the winner moves up a level and playes against the next available person at the next level. Because of the variances in game speeds we could have levels with more players than the level below it.

By throwing out the max players on each level I elminate the potential roadblocks at the various levels. Of course there is still a possible blockage for the winners of the hill top games if the current KOTH and #1 contender are still competing. If that happens I am lining up the extras as #2, #3 contender, etc. If that happens a lot I'll add another level to the hill so those people aren't siting around doing nothing.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

it is cool the way it is now... Wait until there is a koth before you decide to tinker with it.... That way you can see if it works or not...

[Thermodyne]

Send Preacherman to the middle of the hill and leave me down here with the bottom dwellers. I am soundly defeated again.

[geoschmo]

Preacherman now faces Phoenix-D. The winner gets to fight me in the first King of the Hill title match! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[Cheeze]

I think Geo changed the KOTH structure because he was bored sitting up in that rarefied air, and he doesn't want to wait a loooong time before reaching the peak.

[geoschmo]

Guys, I didn't really change the structure. The hill is the same, I just modified the look of the league page a bit. I removed teh restrictions on the numebr of players allowed on each level, but that shold have little effect on the league I think in the long run, and it has zero effect on the league short term as we weren't up to the limits anyway.

The one actual change I was considering, which I have not done yet, was adding another level to the hill. But I won't do that unless we get a lot of people backing up at the top, which I don't expect.

To help prevent that I will stay after anyone actually involved in a King of the Hill title match and make sure they aren't taking to much time on their games. The lower level games can take as long as they want since they won't be holding anybody back but themselves.

Geoschmo

[Cheeze]

I was just kidding before....sort of. I bet you're itching to face your next opponent in the game. I wouldn't expect otherwise....who wants to wait for another game...we all want to play right now!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And the wider structure allows for more flow up....and down...the hill, so much the better!! More people can start, the climbing can go more quickly, and ultimately will force the king to deal with challengers more often!!

[ December 19, 2002, 06:33: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[Stone Mill]

Geo,
Please bump me up one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Thanks for the game, Pablo. You are a lot of fun, not too shabby either! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Pablo]

Thanks Stone Mill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It's been a good game.
Geo, do I need to send you an e-mail everytime I want to get into a game or is it done automatically till I 'unSubscribe'?
Anyway - sign me in again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Gandalph]

Well, that's 2 games played and 2 games lost. There must be a major difference between mano-y-mano and any other game or I am an idiot when it comes to this game. Turn 60, after several interesting battles, I am building to replace my lost ships when he breaks through my ships with a fleet of 45, untouched by my defensive ships in battle. I have a defensive edge over his ships, yet he escapes unscathed. Either I don't understand how this game works or I just suck at it, I don't know. I will move on, and continue my victorious ways in other games, so it won't be long before I figure out this one-on-one format.

Gandalph The Defeated

Edit- Good game 1FSTCAT, I don't know how you outproduced, outresearched, me, but you did. Perhaps you would like to send me an email explaining your tactics? Nah, why give away a good thing!

[ December 20, 2002, 00:52: Message edited by: Gandalph ]

[1FSTCAT]

I'll be happy to tell you how I did it, as I love a sporting match, better than any.. Shoot me an email or a PM with your email addy. I love to have a little post-game wrap up..

It was a good game, though.

[geoschmo]

And now it gets interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

1FSTCAT faces Stonemill in a second mid level game. I spoke too early when I said that the winner of the Phoenix-D/Preacherman game faces me for the first KOTH title.

Since we now have another mid-level game, whichever game gets finished first the winner faces me. Speed is of the essence.

Geoschmo

[Stone Mill]

1FSTCAT is a very dangerous player. This match should be interesting. We had legendary clashes and a long war in the Homecoming PBW game. When I saw his name, it was like an old arch enemy reappearing who knows something of your game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Look forward to this one.

As for debriefs, I also enjoy this very much, and I know 1FSTCAT is a class act. I just had a debrief with Pablo after our game. I don't mind at all about perhaps offering some helpful suggestions to other players. Other players have have helped me, and I would not be very good at all without learning from better players.

Gandalph, don't get too frustrated. There are some very annoying things about this game that you need to pick up or get used to. Things that are NOT obvious, unless through experience.

I still make stupid mistakes (like forgetting to change ship strategies) and curse out loud because of it.

[Quikngruvn]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
Speed is of the essence.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh. Who wants to lay odds that there will be a KOTH crowned by Christmas? I feel certain there will be one by New Year's....

Hopefully I'll be able to join in the fun after New Year's, even though (a) I suck royally at mano-a-mano and (b) everyone else will have learned a bit by already going through the wringer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Quikngruvn

[Stone Mill]

What do you think of this? The KOTH is invited to create a Strategy Article (we can start a new thread, maybe with a Sticky). Only those who achieve the status of KOTH can contribute. Of course, anyone may add questions or comments, but the article should be something of an official dissertation.

This article should go beyond FAQ or basic tips, and should discuss a particular part of the game and how they play it. It should be written for the benefit of the SEIV community, and should be looked upon as perhaps a duty of being a King.

I've seen this done before in other gaming threads, and it is just splendid. Articles have a wide range, and can be a topic close to your heart (fighting tactics, expansion and growth, building your economy, best defense, etc...)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ December 20, 2002, 19:48: Message edited by: Stone Mill ]

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Stone Mill:
Gandalph, don't get too frustrated. There are some very annoying things about this game that you need to pick up or get used to. Things that are NOT obvious, unless through experience.

I still make stupid mistakes (like forgetting to change ship strategies) and curse out loud because of it.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it is more curiousity than frustration, and this damn game has me hooked anyway. I learned to play chess by getting beat all the time by my brothers and father, I eventually started winning games. I think the same will apply here. I did make some mistakes, like losing a fleet to mines when I knew he had them, TWICE!!

[geoschmo]

Stonemill, IMHO the losers could probably tell you more in the article than the winners. I always learn more in games I lose.

Geoschmo

[Pablo]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I always learn more in games I lose.
Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo, have there been many of them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
(sorry if the grammar is wrong)

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Pablo:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by geoschmo:
I always learn more in games I lose.
Geoschmo<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo, have there been many of them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
(sorry if the grammar is wrong)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Way more than I have won Pablo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Geo, add a link to the KOTH page in your sig.

[geoschmo]

Ok.

[Fyron]

Is that eye in the time warp thing from Seven Days?

[geoschmo]

You are asking the wrong person. If you click on my profile you can see the larger image that David used to make it. I don't know what it's from.

Geoschmo

[Fyron]

That's something completely different, and I have no idea what it is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

I'm never going to get to the top of the hill if I keep playing people in radically different timezones. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Preacherman]

Geo, i think you can warm up your puter, Phoenix and i are fighting it out pretty fast, we started very near to each other and had our first clash by turn 15. 3 worlds have been annihilated by turn 18 (2 of mine 1 of his), lets see if we reach the 40 mark, but i doubt it.

[Ragnarok]

In my game wieth Cheeze it took till about turn 45 to even find one another. It is looking to be a long game.

[Phoenix-D]

I am officially splattered. I have 4 ships, he has 12, he's in my home system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I surrendered rather than draw the inevitable out. If I could have expanded I might have played on, but the only route I had was right through Preacherman's superior firepower.

Phoenix-D

[Preacherman]

yeah, after turn 15 i realized he was in my back and had only one way out there, so i tried to block it. with 20 planets on my side and on his 4 + a system i couldn't see it was just a matter of time.
to spoil my victory a little i found a ruin with space yard II on the first planet i colonized, made good use of it, every round one frigate per yard II...

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by Preacherman:
to spoil my victory a little i found a ruin with space yard II on the first planet i colonized, made good use of it, every round one frigate per yard II...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's why I like to play without ruins, especially in this format.

[Cheeze]

Turn 60, and Ragnarok and I have had a couple of tiny skirmishes. This may drag on for a while, or one of us will make breakaway strikes that really damage the other. I just hope I make him pay a little for his victories (when he has them). eeeeeexcelllent!!!!

[Zarix]

I won Tescosamoa in turn 58. Thanks for the nice game Tesco.

[tesco samoa]

Your welcome...

[Asmala]

26 played turns today, not bad. I and Gozguy were opposite sides of the galaxy and the first skirmish has just occured (we're at the turn 48) so I guess this game will be long.

[Ragnarok]

Turn 74 and Cheeze is whooping me good. Hopefully I can come back though. I still got a chance.

[Gandalph]

3 for 3 - Kazarp just wiped out my home system with a cloaked fleet. I thought I had the WP's protected with mines, but somehow he slipped through. I WILL get the hang of this format eventually.

Gandalph the Defeated (Again)

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
I WILL get the hang of this format eventually.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah I am sure you will. I hope I do as well! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'm 0-2 and heading for 0-3 providing I do not make a come back. (Highly unlikely) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Gandalph:
3 for 3 - Kazarp just wiped out my home system with a cloaked fleet. I thought I had the WP's protected with mines, but somehow he slipped through. I WILL get the hang of this format eventually.

Gandalph the Defeated (Again)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe Don't feel too bad. I learned a few things from that game from our early battles (which I lost) If that cloaked fleet had hit one minefield it might have been quite a different outcome. It was a nice stroke of luck on my part that all three planets in your home system were within 6 spaces and I think were likely your main 3 resource planets.

DavidG (aka Kazarp)

[ December 26, 2002, 22:48: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by DavidG:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Gandalph:
3 for 3 - Kazarp just wiped out my home system with a cloaked fleet. I thought I had the WP's protected with mines, but somehow he slipped through. I WILL get the hang of this format eventually.

Gandalph the Defeated (Again)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe Don't feel too bad. I learned a few things from that game from our early battles (which I lost) If that cloaked fleet had hit one minefield it might have been quite a different outcome. It was a nice stroke of luck on my part that all three planets in your home system were within 6 spaces and I think were likely your main 3 resource planets.

DavidG (aka Kazarp)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That they were, and it was either my stupidity, or my arrogance, that there were no mines on THAT warp point.

[Cheeze]

Turn 84, and I'm fearing I'll turn a corner and find Ragnarok opening a can of whoop-*** on me!!! But so far, so good. After a couple of tentative battles, I've started to take the fight into Ragnarok's systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Preacherman]

turn 31 in the k.o.t.h. match between geoschmo and me. so far we met on turn 26 or so, no battle happened yet, so there is no way to see who is in charge technologicaly. But for me the bright side is 42 colonized planets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif in 2/3 of the universe, the down side is, of those 42 planets only 4 have my atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .

so let's see where this one leads us, soon there will be war, but who is going to strike first?

[1FSTCAT]

Well, Stone Mill and I are pounding away at each other. So far, we've each abandoned a planet, when one of our enemies' ships got too close. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

He managed to blitz one of my systems, and hit a couple of planets, but caused no major damage.

I don't know if I want to complain, but I got lucky and found a ruin with another colonization technique, around turn 20. Normally I would say that it would have won me the game by now, but SM's technique gives him a large advantage in the early rounds. I suppose I should learn from this, and employ his tactic on occasion.

He noticed I was using two types of planets right off the bat, and if I know him, he's dilligantly researching other techniques at the moment, so he can catch up!

I suppose ruins are something that should be considered before beginning a game, because it does add a huge random element to the already random effects of placement.

--Ed

[geoschmo]

Yeah, I am going to add "no ruins" to the KOTH game default settings. If both players want them on of course they can have them on, but I think I agree they should be turned off by default from now on.

Geoschmo

[Preacherman]

if you think it helps you, my homesystem is pretty much undefended, so feel free to come, join us drinking a good beer and take a good look.
bringing some presents is always a token of good faith http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

as for first blood, that was unfair, taking out a planet that was just colonized, without giving it the chance of defense.
ok, your mine killing one of my fighters was ok, but it was just a test if you had mines already...

i think we now will go into the hot phase of the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[geoschmo]

Bah, your colonists knew what they were getting into when they signed up for a colony in my space. Serves them right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Preacherman]

your space? bah we consider the whole universe as our space, only that 1/3 is not colonized right now, due to a lack of ships. so if you please remove all of your colonies out of our territory, this act would spare us time and death. thank you for your cooperation.

tusken overlod government

[geoschmo]

Ok, well seing as how your current colony ship has come along with a few "friends" I think I'll be leaving that one alone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ragnarok]

Chalk one up for Cheeze. I just officially surrendered. He came with too much force and I did not have ample defenses. HE was able to out produce me and get ships out quicker. I thought it would be a long game but it didn't even break 100 turns.
Good luck in the next round Cheeze!
I will continue trying to get past this first hump on the bottom of the hill. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Let me know when a player opens up that I can play against Geo.

[DarkHorse]

The DarkHorse candidate throws his hat into the ring. You now have a new empire to kick around. Let the beatings (mine) commence!

[Cheeze]

Woohoo!!! Thanks to Ragnarok for playing a fun game! Looking at the general game length, it seems 99 turns is a pretty long game. It took a long time for us to meet, and by then I was able to develop sufficient technology to catch up with Ragnarok in warships and then outproduce him. When I did attack, I was all over the place.

On a side note, I had never developed Armor much, and at the game's end I noticed stealth ships in several places!! I had worried about you having cloaked ships, but I forgot about it late in the game. Although I don't think they would have gotten very far, they might have thrown me a little off balance. Best of luck to Ragnarok in the next game.....we may meet again in galactic combat!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geo, set me up against some new opponent!! On the question of ruins, I thought it was deliberate that every ruin (not to mention nearly every awesome huge resource planet) was on the wrong types for me (and Ragnarok) to use!!!

Behold the power of Cheeze!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ December 27, 2002, 22:05: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[geoschmo]

I drew first blood this turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You shouldn't be giving out detailed empire information like that Preacherman. Of course if you would like to post the location of your homeworld and strength of defeses at that location I'll be sure to send a reception party. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Congradulations Preacherman. You are the first King of the Hill. For as long as you can defend your title that is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good game. My strategy failed me because you weren't close enough for me to hit you early, and not far enough away for me to prepare my defenses for your attack.

Back to the bottom for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[Preacherman]

Yup, good game and an entirely new strategy for me you used there. with only 10 or so planets it was an awesome job you did there. If i attacked 10 or 20 turns later it could have been a totaly different result.
for future games i will not underestimate intel anymore...

[DavidG]

Man these one on one games are fun!! So nice be able to play 20 turns in a day as opposed to some PBW games were I've played less than 10 turns in the Last 3 months!

[Zarix]

Yup, one on one games are fast. With more players the game is much slower. For example Borg Open Challenge 2001 (started with 20 players) is still going on and it is almost 2003.

[Raging Deadstar]

I'm interested in joining geoschmo, just i have never played pbw before so could you give me some advice before i start

Hey rags, look forward to a defeat off you in the near future

[DavidG]

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
I'm interested in joining geoschmo, just i have never played pbw before so could you give me some advice before i start

Hey rags, look forward to a defeat off you in the near future<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is not much too it really. The game is the same as a simultaneous game. The server will e-mail you a turn and then you can either reply to the e-mail and attach your plr file or go the the PBW page to upload your turn.

[ December 29, 2002, 18:10: Message edited by: DavidG ]

[Stone Mill]

God save the new King!!!

Now, someone knock him down! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Stone Mill]

Well two strikes against me so far in my match.

1. 1FSTCAT found Rock colonization in Ancient Ruins; http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I have to work my butt off to keep up with his having rock and gas.

2. One of my stars randomly exploded by a natural event. All ships and planets lost in the system. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

As if he needs the help! He's doing a very nice job defending himself and harassing with his counterattacking forces.

Not looking good for the 'ol Mill! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Preacherman]

dream on!

but since i have 2 weeks or so to the next game, i'll enjoy myself up here where the view is so nice.
And if one of my subjects feels that he is up to the task and challenges me, i will show him his proper place, down in the mudpit with the rest of the lowly serfs.

long be the reign of king preacherman! bow before his might! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Baron Grazic]

[While bowing to King Preacherman]

Congrats to Yourself and the Tusken Overlord Government.
Perhaps you require a noble Baron within your Service?
...Baron Grazic...

Still awaiting more non-gold players, assuming their are still some around.

[Ed - Spelling]

[ December 30, 2002, 00:10: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Hey rags, look forward to a defeat off you in the near future<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, the word "near" in the UK must mean something totally different then here in the US. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I mean "near future"?!?!? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Nahh, I look forward to playing you RD. It will be a good match when it finally arrives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Turn 26 and me and Darkhorse just met each other. Well I met him. Explored a system that had a planet of his and one ship. Who knows how long this game will Last... I'm not guessing because everytime I have it has been wrong. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Although my losses have average right at 100 turns. But that doesn't mean nothing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cheeze]

Turn 77 and it's probably been over for about 10-20 turns. Fyron beat me pretty much from when we met. It's been a great game...I fall one tier down while Fyron advances to the next level...even the site being down can't stop King of the Hill!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Set me up in another match..I'm raring to go again!!

[Fyron]

It was a fun game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Who do I get to play next?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
I'd like to join then guys, is there any way i can play ragnarok first, i want to give him his first victory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm currently in a game with Darkhorse right now RD. If I win I go up to the next level. If I lose I fall, or I should say I stay at the first level. If I lose then we could play against each other.
It all depends on the outcome of my current game. If I lose then yes I wish to play you right away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

Actually, RD might be playing Cheeze right now. Unless there was 1 person before Cheeze waiting for a challenger. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[DarkHorse]

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
I'd like to join then guys, is there any way i can play ragnarok first, i want to give him his first victory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may be too late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I haven't found any decent planets, mostly nebulas and asteroids on my side o' the galaxy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Score-wise at least he's led the whole game.

[Raging Deadstar]

I'd like to join then guys, is there any way i can play ragnarok first, i want to give him his first victory http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cheeze]

Now that the PBW is back up and running AND I was already royally trounced by Fyron, I eagerly await another start at the bottom of the pile.

WHO'S NEXT??

[Thermodyne]

Originally posted by Cheeze:
Now that the PBW is back up and running AND I was already royally trounced by Fyron, I eagerly await another start at the bottom of the pile.

WHO'S NEXT??<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would seem that getting trounced is all that us bottom dwellers can look forward to in this life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cheeze:
Now that the PBW is back up and running AND I was already royally trounced by Fyron, I eagerly await another start at the bottom of the pile.

WHO'S NEXT??<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would seem that getting trounced is all that us bottom dwellers can look forward to in this life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hope I can change that tide for us ppl down on the bottom. I'm not promising anything but I'm hoping I can win this game I am in right now. If I cannot win this one then there is always next game. I hope to play RD sometime, he said I'd probably beat him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Raging Deadstar]

Heh free wins here, no bribery needed!

*Waves hands around to grab attention*

Once i've moved house and this god forsaken pile of boxes is one again my kingdom, or my room which ever you prefer i'll be up for a few games on koth

[Fyron]

RD, win a few, and I'll take you up on that offer! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Pablo]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Cheeze:
Now that the PBW is back up and running AND I was already royally trounced by Fyron, I eagerly await another start at the bottom of the pile.

WHO'S NEXT??<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would seem that getting trounced is all that us bottom dwellers can look forward to in this life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thermodyne don't give up so soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Anyway I am the bottom dweller! Look at the score table http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

"Look at the score table"

Ok, I am looking at it but you are no where near being the true bottom dweller. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You are only 0 and 1! That's pretty good compared to some of us. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I am 0 and 3
Gadalph is 0 and 3

So me and Gandalph are tied for the bottom of the bottom dwellers. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Thermodyne]

I say we need to organize! We need to get all of the bottom dwellers together and march on the mountain. With our numbers we will have strength. Who is the one that will lead us to the top of the mountain? Who will take the many voices and make them speak as one? Who will lead the legions of the bottom of the mountain? Who will be the chosen one? Or perhaps we can just talk Rag’s into taking the job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Stone Mill]

"Look at the score table" <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I just love the fighting spirit. Gang up on the PBW bullies!

Preacherman, if I were you... and you need not remind me that I'm not you... and you need not remind me that I'm not king...

but I'd use that KOTH icon, and start throwing around some rules and stuff in the nonsense threads. It's what kings do.

"How do you know [Preacherman's] the King?"
"Well, he hasn't got sh*t all over him!"
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif -Quest for the Holy Grail

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
I say we need to organize! We need to get all of the bottom dwellers together and march on the mountain. With our numbers we will have strength. Who is the one that will lead us to the top of the mountain? Who will take the many voices and make them speak as one? Who will lead the legions of the bottom of the mountain? Who will be the chosen one? Or perhaps we can just talk Rag’s into taking the job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will take on the challenge... I will only get as far as the next step but I will press on! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Pablo]

An interesting idea for a game - King vs. Bottom dwellers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

You bottom dwellers must get back to your place!

[Ragnarok]

King vs. Bottom Dwellers. 1 on 6 is a fair number right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Thermodyne]

Pablo has begun to pound my defenses on two fronts now, so this bottom war has begun to heat up in earnest. I’ll have to see what I can do to relieve some of the pressure that has been applied to my valiant defenders.

[Pablo]

That was nasty. My attack fleet warped _after_ the mine sweapers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Any reason why this could have happened? Both fleets were sitting on the warp point, I shift-clicked both of them and ordered to warp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[geoschmo]

Well, regarding who is the worst player, I haven't come up with a fomula that satisfys me yet, so don't read too much into who is currently listed Last.

How do you rate them? Raw number of losses? Net losses? Is a player that is 0 and 4 worse than a player that is 0 and 1? Not neccesarily. And what about comparing players that are 0-4, 1-4, and 1-5? It's kind of confusing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, if you all want to start a big game and gang up on Preacherman you can of course, but it won't be an official KOTH game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Pablo:
That was nasty. My attack fleet warped _after_ the mine sweapers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Any reason why this could have happened? Both fleets were sitting on the warp point, I shift-clicked both of them and ordered to warp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think you can do that. Some have said as long as they have equal movement you can shift click and have them attack simultaneously. But I think Mines are handled differently. You would have to have some way of being sure the minesweepers moved faster, or included them both in the same fleet.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

I think Gan and My game is winding down. Early to tell but He just lost a complete system ( only homeworld included ) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

Geo, update the KOTH page already! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[geoschmo]

Updated. Don't know what your big hurry is, you don't have a match right now anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

That is beside the point! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Wait a minute... why am I "Iperator Fyron"?!? You forgot the "m"! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Wait a minute... why am I "Iperator Fyron"?!? You forgot the "m"! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, in the game results I did. I'll fix it next time I update it. It's correct in the rankings above.

[Gandalph]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I think Gan and My game is winding down. Early to tell but He just lost a complete system ( only homeworld included ) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Don't count me as dead yet, unless of course you would like to drop your guard for my revenge fleet. You caught me out of position and although it is devastating to lose your homeworld, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

[Cheeze]

Awwww....nuts!!! The page was updated (thanks Geo! I didn't expect you to go near anything on PBW for at least a few days), and I don't have a new opponent. I'm here to play...winning is incidental.

I plan to lose more matches than S.D. "Special Delivery" Jones!!! And if you understand that reference, I am truly sorry....well, only a little. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

When oh when is it my chance to play again??

[ January 15, 2003, 06:15: Message edited by: Cheeze ]

[tesco samoa]

Tesco wins as he gassed the world the fat lady was going to sing on...

[ January 16, 2003, 03:10: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

[Preacherman]

come my subjects, if you could stand straight you should have made at least the 2nd level. as you have not why should we deal with you, this is below our dignity. mixing with serfs is not wanted, perhaps if you have a good looking daugter we'd be willing to offer her some of our glory but anything else we have to deline.

and mr. stonemill, kings need no logo or such, they are recognized without such trivia.

(ooc: ha, that's the way i like it, right of the first night etc.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[Fyron]

Hey you pompous windbag! I am on the 3rd level, so you are not a very aware king at all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Preacherman]

pompous windbag, hah, that from someone who can not even read right...
we talked about the scum who are still on the bottom, you obviously are not, but if you think our post fits to you as well, fine by us.

[Stone Mill]

Imperator Fyron,

You won't have to wait long. I just threw in the towel to 1FSTCAT.

1FSTCAT,
I must say you played quite well. Thanks for a good match. You really did your homework.

Your next match should be darn good...

[Fyron]

A new challenger? Yippie!