Babylon 5 Mod

[Suicide Junkie]

On weapons: SOMETHING has to be, just not sure what. 2 things (may be incompatible ??)...Ancient weapons SHOULD be suprior to the mid and younger races; HOWEVER, there should be counters available to the mid and younger races....<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hrm. Really?
I thought the only counter to overwhelming tech was overwhelming numbers/firepower, or sneaky tactics?

Eg carrier group or battlestation vs one shadow battlecrab.
Eg Sheridan's nuclear mines

[grumbler]

SJ: Yes, I agree that the younger races should find it difficult to take out the Ancients, but the way things are now writtent the Shadows and Vorlons simply have too great an ability AT THE START OF THE GAME. In the game I am currentluy playing to test EA stuff, the Vorlons have kept the Centauri to one planet for 200 turns, using 5 ships total. the Centauri started two systems away from the Vorlons and they have been at war since turn 10 or so. Even Centauri cruisers are getting whacked by Vorlon escorts.

I think the secret to making the Ancients "unbeatable" may be in making their planetary defenses much better, even early, and their ships not quite so effective. In fact, just by changing the shadow weapons to fire once per two turns, the battle outcomes become more like what we want. The EA just finally managed to keep the Shadows from taking a planet (after they had burned off 3 others, never even attempting an invasion) by closing in to short range with half the fleet (armed with particles cannons) and standing off with half lobbing in shells. The losses were almost 2-1 in favor of the shadows, and the strength ratio about 2-1 in favor of the EA.

The problem with the shadows is that they kill a ship per turn, pretty much, even when they are small ships. Plus, with their edge in required tonnage and better engines, they have lots more room for armor, and are tougher to boot. Having a Shadow vessel be worth twice the value of a younger races ship is fine, but the shadows are too tough early on. They distort the game by whom they are placed near.

PF: I am now setting up some scenarios where I will just fight similar ships with minor differences in the "simulator" to see if some empirical rules are exposed. maybe that will give us some places to start.

TS: I like the idea of just getting the weapons for each race listed. Certainly, if there are obviously inferior weapons that no one will use because there are better options available, then we can get rid of them or at least restrict them so the AI doesn't have to sort through them.

Is it possible to get this weapoins spreadsheet that people are discussing? IF, did I understand that you had one?

[AGoetz]

Regarding number of weapons for each race.
Will there be the standard weapons (ie Particle Weapons) and Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Particle Weapons)?
Will all races have a Ballistic option? (Don't think the Minbari (for example) currently do, while the Narn are Missile heavy).
Not all races have Mega and Ultra class weapons currently - do you plan on giving those races one?
Will the same range of capabilites be there (ie the Narns two main long range seekers, the stronger targets ships only, the other can target fighters and sattelites as well)

[pathfinder]

SJ: My question is how on Earth (or outer space) does one, within the SEIV system, program an AI to mass or be sneaky as you suggest? I am not one whit concerned about human players at all other than wringing the best out of the AI players.

[pathfinder]

All, Question: Do you folks want the data/quadrant file to stay as is or to add the Gold quadrants? That is the only thing keeping from posting the Version I have. Reluctant to post it though since weapons are "broke".

Also, I would prefer to bow out of overall AI stuff and concentrate on one race....don't care which one except it would have to be a standard race (no ancients or nomads for me!). Which one ???

[grumbler]

PF: if you are in a "trimming" mood, I would suggest the EA. they have way too many specialized missiles and seemingly redundent PDF weapons, IMO.

If you are looking to build new stuff, then one of the more powerful LNAW races (like the Drazhi) would be a good place to go, as we need more "empire-capable" races. A "shadow-based" race like the Drakh might be fun, too.

[Suicide Junkie]

SJ: My question is how on Earth (or outer space) does one, within the SEIV system, program an AI to mass or be sneaky as you suggest? I am not one whit concerned about human players at all other than wringing the best out of the AI players.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, certainly sneakiness is for humans only.

I believe the mod was set up such that the ancient races didn't get to do any colonization, thus limiting their forces to smaller numbers automatically.

The AI should be told to use huge numbers of ships per fleet if it is a young race, and much less for an ancient one...
The ancient one will have less ships total, so they should need smaller fleets in order to have enough to go around and cover their borders anyways.

Does that make any sense with respect to the AI files?

[pathfinder]

SJ: I guess so. I'll look at the files..

and actually one can set up the research files so the Ancients can colonize....I'll re-set their research so they can't colonize...even if they can, it is terribly expensive and takes a long time for them to build anything..

[ January 29, 2003, 04:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Is it possible to get this weapoins spreadsheet that people are discussing? IF, did I understand that you had one? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I do have a Version of it, but I think it is an old Version. It may not have everything in it.

[grumbler]

AGoetz,

My 2 cents on your questions:

1. Regarding number of weapons for each race.
Will there be the standard weapons (ie Particle Weapons) and Advanced Weapons (ie Advanced Particle Weapons)?
- I think there should be a common set of weapons at the basic elevl 9with differences for the races, but a fairly common research path) but that not everyone should get advanced weapons in every Category. The AW is an area where we can distinguish between races.

2. Will all races have a Ballistic option? (Don't think the Minbari (for example) currently do, while the Narn are Missile heavy).
- I don't think we need to have all races have capabilities in all areas, so long as they have equivelents. I am somewhat concerned about the play balance of having virtually every Narn weapon be vulnerable to PD weapons, but that is something playtesting can iron out.

3. Not all races have Mega and Ultra class weapons currently - do you plan on giving those races one?
- I think all the races will need these.

4. Will the same range of capabilites be there (ie the Narns two main long range seekers, the stronger targets ships only, the other can target fighters and sattelites as well).

- the specific limits on weapons can make the game kind of fun (the EA fighter missiles, for instance, are either good against ftr/seeker OR ships, requiring the EA to have two types of fighters, which is okay as it makes them different). Again, playtesting is the way to balance these out.

[javaslinger]

Is there a gold Version yet? Or one in the works? I've been hearing rumors about one for over a year now I think??

Ken

[grumbler]

javaslinger,

There is a Gold conVersion, but it is as rough as the 1.49 Version. Scroll back a couple of pages for my link to the bulk of thge files and directions on how to fix the remainder. PF is putting together a Version with his more recent AI mods, I think.

[pathfinder]

Let me clean it up a bit AND figure out how big it is. also, I guess I need somekind of readme.

[pathfinder]

Too big, it comes in at just over 40 MB...

[Fyron]

So make 2 zip files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

IF: Yeah, yeah, I know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Just gotta figure out what folder(s) to spearate (probably pictures).

[grumbler]

PF: The pictures from the 1.49 mod work just fine in Gold, so you may not need to include them (I didn't! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).

All: I am working up a somewhat arbitrary system of evaluating weapons ROF vs range vs damage inflicted for weapons (using strategic combat only). I hoped to finish it today, but have been distracted by the RW space shuttle tragedy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Early indications are that range is far more important than I thought compared to ROF.

I also want to scrub it using "optimal range" versus "Max weapons range" tactics, as the latter seem to yield much better results than I expected for the long-range-weapons races like the Minbari, Shadows, and Narn.

Hopefully, this will give us a heuristic model to use in evaluating racial weapons balance.

[pathfinder]

Grumbler; yeah, MOST of the pics are the same (except for my custom shipsets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )...

Gonna post the data, ai files needed.

Will provide the shipsets I use if requested (they are VERY rough...)

[ February 02, 2003, 02:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

FFirst file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044154075.zip)

2: 1044155514.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip)

WARNING!: The AI is still very rough and in the opinion of most of the testers, the weapons are unbalanced. The ships sets are very rough and some images are missing (default ones will be used). Recommend D/L the basic 1.49 MOD and then modify with these files. The .zip is NOT self-extracting, so you will have to manually place the files in a B5 Mod folder in your SEIV folder. I also recommend the using the MOD Launching program found on the SEIV Gold CD as no special path.txt file was made.

The 1.49 Version files can be found here:

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

[ February 02, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Hi guys and girls,

It's been a while since my Last message.
Now school has commenced again I find myself in a heap of homework and the like. I was hoping to get a rather easy roster (which lessons to take), but that was not the case. Therefore I'm going to do less and less for our precious mod.
I know this is not very fair for you all. I was the one with the new idea's and I was going to implement them. I'm sorry I can't live up to my promesses.
You'll hear from me when I have something interesting to say. Timstone out...

[Rambie]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pathfinder, are these the only two ZIPs needed to for the GoldMOD?

I was going to post these to the site.

Thanks,

[Fyron]

The original B5 mod was only 4 files cause that is how it would fit on the PBW server. The file uploads there can't be greater than 5 MB. On Shrapnel, they can go up to 30 MBs, so pathfinder has more flexibility.

[pathfinder]

Rambie: Well, the readme files kind of (hopefully) explain what files are included. basically all these are, are the files needed to Convert 1.49 to Gold. In other words, I would setup a B5 MOD folder in SEIV Gold folder using what is available on your site then d/l & extract the 2d zip with the conVersion files and shipsets to overlay what you have in your site.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with the winzip to make self-extracting files *shrug*.

[Schwarzbart]

I thryed the B5 Gold mod and it looks good except that I haved to correct 2 AI Files and dont know why all the Minor AIs every round brings an error but the lines SEIV misses are in the files.

[pathfinder]

Swartzbart: where did you put the minor races (what folder)? and what are you considering minor?

[Fyron]

Minor races are Neutrals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Understood IF: My question basically is did he make a separate B5 MOD folder with the required sub-folders???

[Rambie]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Rambie: Well, the readme files kind of (hopefully) explain what files are included... then d/l & extract the zip with the conVersion files and shipsets...

Unfortunately, I am not familiar enough with the winzip to make self-extracting files *shrug*.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, good. I'll work on getting it posted this weekend.

Time for another dumb question: Did v.34 get released? Last I looked here it was still in development. This forum gets so many Posts it's easy to loose track of conversations.

Making self-extracting files (EXE files) with WinZIP requires a seperate utility, not the basic WinZIP. You CAN make ZIP files that store the directory info as well as the file though. I usually do that with the files I have for downloading.

[Schwarzbart]

Ups think I found the error I maked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ... have 2 orders for the Neutral Races in Pictures one named RaceNeutral the other RacesNeutral ... ups.

[pathfinder]

Rambie: Well, yes and no. Val had planned to release .34 before going on holiday/vacation back in Novemeber but was waiting on an updated AI from me. I had a HDD problem at the time and it didn't get published. Not sure what Version(s) you'd call what I have done since then...

Swartzbart: Hehe, been known to happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 07, 2003, 11:39: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Note all: Come 4 March I won't have a lot of time for the B5 MOD other than PBW turns.

[grumbler]

PF: I hope you cannot continue as much due to GOOD reasons (like new house, new spouse, new kid, etc).

ALL: I ran my synthetic weapons analysis but found that I didn't include enough ships per side to make the stastics valid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Am starting again with 10 ships per side and including reversed starting order (moving first had a disproportionate effect on the outcomes as well).

So much for doing it simple - shoulda known! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Grumbler: Naw, something called Freelancer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif not throwing in the towel, just not spending nearly as much time. still have Yolu (molecular weapons similar to Minbar + plus some ships for them) to do yet...

[AGoetz]

Been no Posts for a while, so here's the (as I remember) status of my current Single Player game.

Note : The Abbai AI continues to cause unexplained RCEs at odd times, fortuntly they aren't in the current game.

Highest AI level, Highest AI bonus.

I'm the Gaim and I control a 25 system section of a large map. There are 8 jump points out of this region, the Vree or Centuri lie on the other side of most of these. Each jump point is guarded by 6 Heavy Cruisers (5 Particle Concentrators + PD), 2 Heavy Carriers (180 Medium Fighters (Particle Guns) each, Packet Torpedoes, PD), 4 Escort sized Assualt ships (2 Gaim Boarding Parties each) and 1 Medium Repair vessel (loaded with Packet Torpedoes). I have close to 40 planetary ship yards, over 130 star-base mounted ship yards and have a stock pile of over 3 million Minerals so I could build one massive navy in a hurry if I needed to. To keep happiness up, every one of my planets has 100 Light Infantry - the main reason why I have more units than most the AIs put together.
I'm currently rated as number 5 out of the 9 remaining empires (the Raiders have bought life to my O2 worlds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , no neutrals).
The LLort are the largest empire with over 40 systems.
The Centuri have the largest Navy (by quite a margin) - they have 500 ships in service. They have been launching Intel attacks on me for ages, but now that I've gotten some decent intel buildings up and running they aren't getting through. Takes the computer a couple of minutes to process the Centauri's turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I know that the Centauri and Vree have at least Dreadnought hulls but they have shown no sign of having the advanced armors yet (mmm, Assault ships).
To speed up turn times I'm contemplating building an exploration force and culling that Centauri fleet a little http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I figure half a dozen BaseShip sized vessels should do the trick.

[grumbler]

AGoetz,

Are the Raiders working now? I remember one of my first games, before I realized that the nomad races didn't work, saw me capture a nomad homeworld. When I hit facilities upgrade the world upgraded to one shipyard and eighteen Manufacturing facilities! That one world could build with more minerals (something like 55,000, 'cause I was an ancients race) than I could produce in the whole empire! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I stopped playing using nomads after that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

grumbler: they are probably only working as a "standard" race.

[AGoetz]

No, the Raiders weren't working. When I showed up they had plenty of tech, but no ships or units. As a Nomad they also had no colonies other than their Homeworld. It was an easy task to load a transport with some of keep-the-peace troops and take them.
Problem : far too easy
Benefit : at least doubled my productive worlds as I can now fully exploit H2 and O2 planets.

Game update : the Markab started RCEing Last night. I've turned off their Design Minister as I'm not ready for the game to end (it's the usual suspect, Ultra Efficent Fusion Engines). Once I've researched a bit more of the advanced armors as well as finished off the ECM/Sensor techs I'll be putting together an annilation fleet to speed the game up - when there are 3 AIs with over 350 ships it takes ages to process a turn.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Are you using v 1.49 or Gold B5? I find that Gold is MUCH more stable

[grumbler]

I haven't had a chance to add anything to my simulation runs lately, so I thought I would post the results of the first four runs to keep the interest up.

I ran a series of simulations of a "long range" ship versus a "short range" ship design using various combinations of range, ROF, and damage, in aneffort to help us get a better hand on weapons mix.

Starting assumptions:

1. Ten ships on each side fight to the death. One “Long Range” (LR), one “Short Range” (SR)

2. Both fleets use “optimum firing range” with no formations.

3. Max (ancient) tech available for both sensors and ECM

4. Use Shadow battleship as the base hull for all ships, with UE bio drive V. Speed 18.

5. No passive armor, Refracting armor 5

6. Each ship had 10 weapons of the exact same type.

7. Each case had two tests, alternating which side went first.

8. All weapons were DF with no to hit bonuses or special damage types. No damage reduction due to range.

Case 1: LR-1 vs SR-1
LR-1 had range 10, damage 100, ROF 2
SR-1 had range 5, damage 100, ROF 1

Results: In both runs, the SR-1 won, losing 2 ships when moving second, 3 when moving first.

Case 2: LR-2 vs SR-1
LR-2 had range 20, damage 100, ROF 2
SR-1 as above

Results: LR-2 won both runs, losing 3 ships when it moved first, and 5 when moving second.

Case 3: LR-1 vs SR-2
LR-1 had range 10, damage 100, ROF 2
SR-2 had range 10, damage 100, ROF 1

Results: SR-2 won both rounds (duh!) losing no ships when moving first and 3 ships when moving second.

Case 4: LR-2 vs SR-2
LR-2 had range 20, damage 100, ROF 2
SR-2 had range 10, damage 100, ROF 1

Results: This was the interesting one. SR-2 won the round when LR-2 moved first, 10-2. But when SR-2 moved first, LR-2 won, 10-3.

My assumption here is that the side that moved first didn’t get in range, so took the first hit and never recovered.

More results and analysis to come, if people think these sorts of things are going to be useful.

[AGoetz]

As this is my first PBW game, there are some things that are surprising me.

Firstly - just how many neighbours I've found (or have found me) and it's only turn 12. I'm still running around on prototype fission drives (oh will you researchers please hurry up) and I've already got 3 spots on my other empires screen occupied. I've only visited about 6 systems!
Second is more of a question - should I be trying to get treaties with the other players - or building war fleets? I haven't seen enemy fleets yet - but that doesn't mean that they aren't already under construction.

In a versus AI game I'd quite happily stick a couple of warships on the a jump point and then ignore whatever is on the other side. In a human game I'd expect assaults, tactics and treaty use to be a bit better thought out.

Main point of paranoia - I'm the only H2 breather on the map so the other players are going to want my people (oh well, even if I'm wiped out, this means that some of my people are likely to survive to game end - they're just too valuable to completly xenocide.)

[Dead Meat]

How soon you run into people varries. I've only meet one player. It help that most ships have unlimted range which mean you don't have to recall them as often.

I'd do both as far as the treaties and fleets. Well, defense for your planets if you don't want ships, but sense I'm the Shadows my playing style is abit diffrent. Just try and not be too dependent on your trade. Most people arn't going to want to fight so early, but you never know. *grins*

Since this is a Roll Playing game, people are sometime more easy going than the AI games. Course this is the B5 univers, they didn't see mto get along too well even when they where friends. And then their are the Shadows. *grins again*

I'm not going to tell you how to defend your systems because, well, I may have to pay you a visit some time. But don't put all your eggs in one basket. Its ussaly best to make sure they can't get into your system in the first place. But make sure you have enough in back up incase they do get past your front lines.

As for beening the only H2 breather on the map... *grins* The Shadows can be your friends.

[Val]

Hey all, sorry for my absence, did I miss anything?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Val:
Hey all, sorry for my absence, did I miss anything?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quite a bit, really. Where have you been?

There was talk about scrapping the mod's weapons system entirely a while back. I hope that movement was abandoned..

As for beening the only H2 breather on the map... *grins* The Shadows can be your friends. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey... don't have any sort of in-game discussions with people you have not met in-game. That is a serious breach of RP protocol. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 11, 2003, 04:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Val]

Thought I would give the mod some time to grow in the community without any input from me, see what directions it would go.

Was also waiting to see how the PBW game went.

Though been busy as heck with work would be a much more accurate statement.

I do have a bunch of stuff I never did release in the way back days of December - mostly refined shipsets, some repairs and all, but not sure what it would be compared to what has changed.

Anyone release a 'new' mod Version since?

I see the AI master was quite busy, as were you all... damn lot of reading to catchup on.

This was the Last one I was up to:

1.49.34 - After a LONG break... Added a credits file to try to sum up the whos and whats. Added shipsets (Abbai, Dilgar, Gaim, Pakmara, Raiders). Added missing bmps to Vree shipset. Fixed Great Machine typo. Changed Gaim to Nomadic race to better represent the fact that they don't colonize. Fixed Living CPU family so it was different from External Cargo Pods. Updated Formations.txt.

[Val]

Also of note:

I finally got a cable modem so I could actually upload these monster files and I emptied out the b5mod@yahoo.com mailbox, so it is once again open for business.

[ March 11, 2003, 05:15: Message edited by: Val ]

[mlmbd]

Val, WOW! I thought you ran away on your vacation to Arizona. And just decided to keep going and going, and going and................... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Glad to see you once again!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

[Val]

Pretty close to accurate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Couple quick questions for y'all: Has anyone released any new modifications to the Mod? I did see the new AIs - what's the most recent Version there? Any new shipsets?

Thanks!

[jimbob]

Yah!! Val is back!!

<does little jig>

And I was afraid that you had gotten lost in Arizona, and changed into a wild hill-man or something. It's good to have you back.

-jimbob

[Val]

Thanks for the enthusiasm jimbob http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Didn't quite go wild, though I think it might have been a better choice! Got a whole passel of new drinking stories though...

Man, I had to go all the way back to page 34 to start getting caught up... this is going to take me a little while.

How is the PBW going - or how did it go?

I hear tales of a Gold Version conVersion someone recently did? Truth or fiction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If everyone (who is interested) can post the following 3 things, I'll use that as a basis to start up again:

1 - What don't you like?

2 - What do you want to see added? (within the confines of SE IV)

3 - What is flawed and needs fixing?

(also, if you want to say what you do like, that would be cool as well - so if enough people like something that one person doesn't, well, it is a democracy after all)

[AGoetz]

PBW Status :
Currently turn 16 (we only got around to starting not all that long ago).

The AI's most recent Version should only be a couple of pages back from the start. It tries very hard to prevent RCEs, but I can still get it to fail (usually on the Abbai, with Medical Bays being a sometimes trigger - which doesn't make sense to me as there are no Medical Bay equipped ships in the AI).

[pathfinder]

Hiya Val! LTNS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yeah, me did a Gold conVersion (basic only) back in January. Should be up in the race board here...

You want the 1.49 Version still? I guess best to post it here as e-mail has a 8 MB limit in file size.

Biggest gripe (as usual are the seemingly endless RCEs in 1.49...as soon as we crushed one another would raise its head...very frustrating to say the least. I re-did some of the engine stuff to solve the engine created ones (had to fiddle with both componets file and vehiclesize file)...also had a go at getting races with armors....

AS IF said, quite a discussion over weapons effects (rate of fire/distance/damage over range, etc). Also something of a discussion over whether or not the AI Ancients should be able to colonize. I'll say this...they are somewhat limted/ineffective if no coloization BUT if allowed to (thru allowing the research) then the Shadows are almost unstoppable and to a lesser degree the Vorlons are.

[ March 12, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Val: Link to the B5 Gold I did in January:

First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044154075.zip)

2: 1044155514.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip)

[Jamorobo]

Well thank the gods your back!

Anyway..whats gone on?

Well with the thought of you not comming back for good we were all thinking to what extent we would change the mod. This was all because several parts of the mod (this is most notible with weapons and their stats) are completely unintelegable to work out due to not knowing how you envisaged the working of the game.

This lead to people questioning whether we should scrap the weapons as they are as it's like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics without the rosetta stone. We had only just started this debate as u can see below with grumbler doing the first tests of long range-low Rof Vs short range-high Rof etc.

we all agreed that there were problems with the weapons as they are and that some races (notibly EA) have a huge selection of weapons as others don't.
This ALSO lead to questioning the usefullness of having so may weapons, some saying it might be better to just have race specific weapons or alternativly basic universal weapons for all lasers, plasma weps etc insted of different types of weapons for each race eg. EA having heavy lasers 1 and gaim having combat lasers 1 turns to both having generic laser 1. (something i'm against as the whole point of the b5 mod is that each race is totally different, otherwise it's just se4 with bab5 pics).

Pathfinder the absolute legend has been working hard at the ai. but has come up against problems with the engines as usual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif oh well.

the same debate for weapons has been going on with the ai as pathfinder wanted to know if the ai should go straight for there race specific weapons or work up with a few others on the way. And also which weapons to go for as with all the imbalances at the moment some weapons the ai are choosing are useless.

Thats all i can remember at the mo i think...

oh Pathfinder - did u fix the problem with the armour as didn't u give it the "hit first" trait by accident at one point?

[pathfinder]

Jamorobo: Don't remember, except I had to give armour a "bogus" ability in order for it to not conflict with cargo bays...

[Talenn]

pathfinder:

Are those Gold links a complete package? I mean, if I download those two files, install them over a fresh install of SE4Gold, will the mod be complete and playable?

The reason I ask is because I'm on a ridiculously slow dial-up connection and I dont want to download the wrong thing or something that isnt going to really work right, especially given the size of the files.

I've been following the B5mod for some time, but I was under the impression that the gold conVersion was more of a 'work in progress'. I've been waiting for the complete 'Real Deal' and if this is it, I guess I just missed any announcements of it.

Thanx a lot!

Talenn

[Fyron]

Val:
I think there is still a problem with the supply values of Ancient Reactors where the Small ones make more supplies per kT and per resource cost than the Medium and Large ones.

[Val]

IF:
I do believe I have fixed the supply values for the ancient reactors, though I have to compare to PFs changes to the Comp file and see what I have to update from what he has masterfully done.

PF:
Do you recall specific changes you made? Which components and such? Ta help me check and make the changes in .34?

Maybe we can come up with some other equalizing agent for allowing the Ancients to prosper a bit more. Ideas?

JAM:
Heh, I think I'll take the Egyptian Hieroglyphics ref as a compliment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually, all the ROF and damage values are based off of the B5 Wars game. To figure out the ranges at which weapons could fire I used a 'base-to-hit' number and adjusted the max range out to whenever the 'to-hit' value dropped below a 25% chance. The damage was based off of some formulas...

I did wind up adding 'generic' weapons so all races could at least get something for researching laser, antimater, etc.

All PBW:

What has the PBW game been like so far?

All:

Has anyone tried the Intel?
Have there been any more shipsets?

[pathfinder]

Talenn: The B5 Gold I did is based on the 1.49 Version available in January. It is really a very basic Gold Version, I would NOT call it finished.

Val: This page in the race style forum should give you a clue (just see my 3-4 Posts there with .zip files and explanations as to what the changes were): <a href="http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3" target="_blank">http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-
bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3</a>

I'll scour my files and see if I made a readme with change notes.

Timstone had started an Ipsha set but this semesters course work is hammering him so work stopped on that.

I have started a Yolu but only got as far as the destroyers...

[ March 13, 2003, 04:14: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Danka!

I do have a cleaned up Dilgar shipset from the ver .34 based on what you sent me and some redos.

Dilgar34.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1047529321.zip)

Also have a mostly completed Torvalus for another Ancients race.

d/ling your stuff and will check out this weekend!

[ March 13, 2003, 04:35: Message edited by: Val ]

[Fyron]

IF:
I do believe I have fixed the supply values for the ancient reactors, though I have to compare to PFs changes to the Comp file and see what I have to update from what he has masterfully done<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is not fixed in the Version of the mod the PBW game is using. Medium are 3x the space as Light, with only a little over 2x the supplies. 2 Light Reactors cost teh same as 1 Medium, and are 5 kT smaller. They only make 700 less supplies, which is not all that much, really. For 50% increased size, you only get 10% increased supply output.

[grumbler]

Val:

What I don't like about the current Version of the mod:

1. There are too many obsolete options presented in shipbuilding: old engine types, weapons so obviously inferior you would never use them, etc.

2. The whole engine/reactor concept is a nice idea, but breaks down in practice because the engine sizes are so small. B5 ships in the series tended to have a few large engines, not dozens of small ones. Dozens of engines times variable supplies used per move times number of moves per turn creates a bit calculation nightmare, and it is hard to make any tradeoffs between speed, armor, and weapons when the cost of speed is so hard to calculate.

3. Some of the research payoff versus cost seem unreasonable (especially in reactive armor). You can literally pay millions of RP to get a 10% improvement.

4. The high space cost of cargo holds means that you really only have a few options for cargo hulls. Small transports make no sense, given that they can only hold 1 cargo hold (and get any speed) while the Fast Courier can hold as much cargo while being faster and cheaper. Curiously, engines are highly configurable while cargo holds are not.

What I like about the mod:

1. The mix of defensive options in the face of the lack of shields. One would expect this to be a sticking point (especially as shields seemed kind of integral to the combat system of the basic game) but the different kinds of ECM makes for some interesting tradeoffs. I still think the Proportions mix of hull minuses to defense plus engine plusses to defense (to simulate the effect of speed on defensive ability) is worth emulating, especially if the engine system is changed.

2. The overall feel is excellent, especially for the major "playable" races (EA, Minbari, Narns, and Centauri). Their ships do look and fight differently.

[Suicide Junkie]

3. Some of the research payoff versus cost seem unreasonable (especially in reactive armor). You can literally pay millions of RP to get a 10% improvement.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't have the authority to speak for the other things you mentioned, but I do have this one covered.

Don't for a minute expect to rush down the tech tree, straight for the top-end armor.
There are diminishing returns on all of these things, and in most cases you will never research right to the end. You do have the option but it may not be practical.

Most of the armor tech areas are optional, as well. You can work on the theoretical techs to achieve the ability to build emissive armor before you research refractive armor, for example.
At that point, you can ignore the practical refractive armor techs, and simply develop the more advanced emissive technology.

Skipping armor levels is a good way to save research points, but if an enemy appears at the wrong time, you may find yourself with a lot of theory, but no practical work completed, and your factories will be making expensive, low quality armor plates.

In summary:
Think "diminishing returns", and work towards the best tech levels you believe you can reach before the wars start.
There will always be higher tech levels to reach for. Anyone who gets to the top is just toying with his opponent, and pressing end turn a lot.

[AGoetz]

On the subject of weapons, the races that have a range make it hard to counter while those that have a few are predicatable.

example : the Gaim (whom I'm playing in the game)
Once the techs are there there are simply just two main weapon systems used by the Gaim - Particle Concentrators and a missile weapon that I've forgetten the name of just at the moment. You know that if you're facing Gaim, that unless they done some heavy capturing/trading that all you really have to worry about is a long range moderate damage beam weapon with the occasional missile just to make sure you researched point defence.
Someone playing the EA has a wide range of weapon loadouts - will you be facing beams, massed missiles, a combination, etc. So choice can be good - but the research load is hideous and trying to keep track of which weapon you want where ...

[mlmbd]

Val, I am still here if you need me for something!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

[Rambie]

Val, long time no see!

[Fyron]

Everyone has been shocked into silence at Val's return! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[jimbob]

No, I think it's because of the War. Everyone is either debating it over in the OT threads, or glued to their TV/radio waiting to see what happens next.

If the war wraps up quickly, we'll have a nice bit of community returning ... until the USA invades N. Korea that is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Dawn Falcon]

Hi people - I'm fairly new to SE4G and I'm trying to get this to work on my PC, but I'm getting loads of AI errors.

So...what precisely do I need to download and apply in which order to get this to work?

Thanks in advance

[Fyron]

The B5 Mod is developed for pre-gold se4. You need to look for the Gold conVersion that was made of the mod. I think Pathfinder made it.

[Dawn Falcon]

I am trying to use that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Not sure what's going on sigh

[Fyron]

What sorts of errors are you getting? Are you sure you are using modded AIs in the mod, and not normal se4 AIs?

[Gandalph]

While we are on the topic, not really an error, but a nuisance. I cannot see all of the various ship enhancements (ie - civilian ship, military ship, etc) when I have "only latest" on. Since we are in the beginning of the game, it is not a real big deal, but later, when there are many upgraded components, it will be a pain in the arse.

[Dawn Falcon]

Yes AI errors...

s'why I basically asked for a quick install guide which works for someone. Would seem to be easier than troubleshooting the problem.

[Fyron]

We can't really help you if you don't tell us what the problem is. There are a lot of things that qualify as AI errors.

[Dawn Falcon]

never mind. Given up for now sigh

[ March 29, 2003, 01:55: Message edited by: Dawn Falcon ]

[Fyron]

I think it is time to give up on the non-Gold development and develop the mod exclusively for Gold. This will allow all sorts of new features to be used. It will eliminate problems caused by se4-errors that have been fixed in patches. It will eliminate all se4 Version-related problems. Sure, a few people won't be able to play the mod then, but they need to go buy Gold anyways. We shouldn't let a very small minority hinder the mod.

[ March 29, 2003, 01:59: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[thorfrog]

I agree also. It's time to put pre-Gold to bed.

[ March 30, 2003, 03:36: Message edited by: atomannj ]

[Dawn Falcon]

After reading back through the thread, it'd seem that the racial/weapons model is what'd need some revision?

I'm playing arround with a more balanced system for it...don't mind if you don't use it, it's just designed to spark some thoughts and comments. Should be ready tomorrow.

..and it's not. More races than I thought. Done half a dozen, working on the others. And my wireless network isn't working for some unknown problem. Grr.

[ March 31, 2003, 01:43: Message edited by: Dawn Falcon ]

[pathfinder]

I am out of the loop for the PBW, so I guess automate my week-end turn. Back Sunday night.

[jimbob]

I think I agree. If people don't have gold by now, well what's keeping them? Aaron can't possibly be making any money off us if we don't buy the upgrades once in a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Just another way for us to support the hardest working game manufacturer in the biz

[Fyron]

Did Val disappear again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Klebdog]

I keep getting an error message saying "Unable to load techarea.txt" which is keeping me from loading the Mod. I checked the file and it seems to be fine any clues as to what I did wrong?

Thanks

[Fyron]

Are you using the 1.49 Version of the mod in Gold? That will not work.

[Klebdog]

No I am using the old SEIV Version with B5 Mod, however I do have the Gold Version on my machine. What do you think the problem is?

[Geryon]

Hello. I recently bought SE 4 Gold, I have downloaded all of the files found on Rambie's site, the 2 zips provided by Pathfinder for the Gold conVersion and the 1.84 patch. Do I have everything I need to run this mod?

Is there anything being currently worked on? It seems that a lot of people disappeared from here as of late. And does anyone know if this mod is compatible with stand alone modded shipsets?

[ April 13, 2003, 11:00: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[tesco samoa]

Without looking through this thread...

Question is there any reason that the Trading Post and Manufacturing colony are the member of the same family ??

Every time i Click the upgrade all in the planets window all the manufacturing colony fac... that i am building switches over to trading post. Which is a pain since the Trading Post is not as good asthe Manufacturing Colony.

[jimbob]

Geryon:
Yeah, but many of us are students, and many of us are Canadian
Final Exams + Playoff hockey = temporary absence.

I bet things will pick up at the end of April, bout the time most of us crawl out of our study holes, realize that the light of day is too bright and crawl back down to the safety of things like... computers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Geryon]

Thanks for the info jimbob, I just had a sudden sense of fear that suddenly this mod might have "gone beyond the rim" just as I finally got the chance to get the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'd also like to give a special appreciation to pathfinder and grumbler who made the Gold Versions I'll be able to use, thanks guys.

And a question or 2 to the mod makers, I noticed ships from B5 Wars in the ship sets such as the Poseidon Supercarrier, how come other B5 Wars ships aren't being used? I saw the names of these ships in one of the texts in the zip but the ships aren't in the sets; Tethys Cutter (imo would make a better escort than the Skylark transport which is a civilian ship), the Artemis Heavy Frigate (with it's awesome Rail Gun arsenal which I think you guys have in game?), Sagittarius Missile Cruiser and the Avenger Escort Carrier. Also why was the Asimov Luxury Liner removed from heavy Transport? The current small and med transports are both shuttles, wouldn't the Iron Side Crew Shuttle would work better as the small transport (currently med) as the Hestrel is used only for planetary transport, the Kneale Freighter the Med transport (currently large) and the Asimov as the large.

Please don't think this a criticism, I'm only curious as to why these designs aren't being used, the shipset is great as it is.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

[tesco samoa]

seemed to be missed

Without looking through this thread...

Question is there any reason that the Trading Post and Manufacturing colony are the member of the same family ??

Every time i Click the upgrade all in the planets window all the manufacturing colony fac... that i am building switches over to trading post. Which is a pain since the Trading Post is not as good asthe Manufacturing Colony.

[pathfinder]

tesco: IIRC the trading post was supposed to be a "baby" manufacturing colony...in other words cheaper, quicker to build (several testers were complainining of the cost & build time for the MC). However, as you noted it seems th AI likes the TD better...

not sure how to fix...

[Fyron]

Switch their order in the Facility file. The Last one in the list for the family is the prefered one for AIs, and also is what determines what upgrades to what.

[pathfinder]

My head hurts.....bleah...

hotmail uses McAfee virus scan for attachments. When I tried to send my latest B5 PBW turn it threw up a red flag saying it was infected with a virus. 1 hour later and Norton says nope, no virus. I re-try and voila! the files goes thru without a hitch... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Geryon]

So do you guys have any thoughts on using other B5 Wars ships? Or is the mod just way too far along to input them in at this point (more trouble than its worth).

I have absolutely no idea how ships and weapons work in this game, if the weapons are set up by individual ship or if they are set up by the type (frigate, destroyer, etc). If they can set up by the ship (meaning you add whatever weapons you want to that ship, I think it might be interesting to use ships with unique weapons such as the Artemis (Rail Guns) and the Sagittarius (L-Class Missiles). Of course if you guys think this a bad idea, it's not possible to set up, or have a planned number of ships per side which already reached its quota then I'll consider it forgotten.

[Suicide Junkie]

Weapons can be placed on any ship where they fit size wise.
Weapon mounts can be restricted to specific hulls, and thus certain weapons can be allowed only on specific hulls, but it gets clunky and ugly.

[Geryon]

Thanks for the info Suicide Junkie. I have modded other games but my knowledge is extremely lacking when it comes to this game. I realize that suggesting changes or additions to shipsets and weapons might result in set backs or worse some sort of unbalance to what was already achieved. Because of any of these and other reasons I'd understand not implementing any of my suggestions.

Still just in case it'd be of any interest, I'll observe as an example the EA at the moment. I have noticed from looking the zips there are pulse, plasma, particle, matter, ballistic and laser weapons in multiple stages. I'm also unsure how exactly tech trees work in this game (it still hasn't arrived due to shipping problems), I think I saw technology can be upgraded in ships (have light pulse weapons and upgrade to med and heavy later on in the same ship)? I also don't know if tech can be exchanged (have say a plasma weapon replaced by a particle or laser as tech becomes available). I'm parting from the premise that weapons in the mod are being kept reasonably close to canon, ex. the Hyperion upgrades its multiple plasma batteries and the main particle cannon and later adds the 2 side lasers but doesn't have the ability to make all its weapons fire lasers, that sort of thing. If it's being kept near to canon, the only ship that should fire missiles right now is the Warlock (save the GodSat). But the missiles on the Warlock are secondary weapons, it's main weapons are the heavy pulse cannons and the new Heavy Particle Beam Cannon. The Saggitarius meanwhile would fire only missiles and work well as an long-range artillery ship complementing other ships using beams and pulses. The way I set up my mod for the other game is that ships use different weapons at different settings so that they need to complement each other (otherwise all I'd need are Warlocks and Omegas). This is a small example, if this sort of thing is being done here or something like it is of interest I'd like to help. I have several B5 Wars books detailing tech and weapons for at least the main races and Dilgar, B5 Wars was closed down before I could get books on the League, since that is at the least an official source of info I can provide anything I have that isn't already being used and of course is needed.

If all this mumbo jumbo isn't needed though then disregard the really huge paragraph in the middle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Go play the demo to see how it works. You can retrofit a ship designed with any set of components to any ship design using any components, whether they are new Versions of old components or completely different components. Well, you have to obey the max 150% difference costs. You can only retrofit from design A to design B if design B's total cost is at most 1.5 * design A's total cost (all 3 resources added together).

[pathfinder]

Geryon: I tried to make the outfitting of ships as close to canon as I could (I did most of the AI). I based it mostly on the Agents of Gaming B5 game.

Input is always welcome. One reason for current stagnation is I got a little burned out (not to mention Val's disappearance) ... also big issue was range/damage modeling, some thought it is not as should be for some weapons.

One thing to note: due to the way the AI files are arranged the AI will use whatever weapons are entered into the design file in priority order (hope this makes sense). So I had to make some decisions as to what each size ship (not each model) had for weapons.

[ April 18, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

I think I'm following what you're saying there Pathfinder. I'm certain that your setup is more than adequate, I'll try to see if I can understand exactly how the ships and weapons work from a modding standpoint once the game arrives (hopefully Monday or Tuesday) or I'll have to dowload the demo.

My question for weapons arrangements was directed towards the idea of making ships more unique and have to depend on one another (as opposed to the standard game where you use the earlier ships only until you can build the newer and bigger ones and then just discard the old ones and massively spam the large battleships, I hate games that do that). My ships question was just mere curiosity to see if those other designs were of any interest to use at all. Nevertheless, if any of this will cause a lot of headaches or is already being implemented disregard it, the Last thing I want to do is mess up the current vibe the mod has.

And don't worry about the stagnation, I understand both schoLastic duties or just plain burnouts from overworking the mod very well (I'm there myself with my own mods), take whatever time you need for R&R and resume work at your own pace.

I know I'm currently not much useful to modding the game itself, but whatever I can be of help with is at your disposal.

PS. I really look forward to seeing your AI kick my butt as soon as the game arrives also!

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Hehe, The Shadows (and to a lesser extent the Vorlons) can be a nitemare since their weapons outclass most other races weapons (though late stage Abbai & Minbari can probably hold their own).

Oh and remember, the AI lmitations are out the window in human vs human in play by web http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif There, if RP is agreed to, the game could be rather, uhm, "interesting"...

[ April 18, 2003, 23:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Pathfinder: Lol, yeah those Vorlons and Shadows are nightmares in every damn mod I stumble onto them.

As for Online gaming, after a while of playing perhaps I'll be able to present a reasonable challenge...then again I might be the equivalent of a Raider fighter against the Walkers of Sigma 957. We'll see about that once the damn game gets here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Oh and also provided that you play with the Gold edition which is the one I'm getting.

I wonder just how RPGish is this game against AIs, I hope I'll be able to set up things similar non-aggression pacts, mutual defense treaties to make allies against those pesky Shadows, trade routes instead of just one gigantic smackdown against every empire in the known universe, I have no Londo complex after all...

[pathfinder]

Diplomacy is one of the areas I find a bit lacking, though one can have decent diplomacy until one reached mega evil empire or MEE.

One of the difficulties in MODding the AI I was trying to get across are the ship variants...very difficult to setup and stay "canon" IMHO.

[ April 19, 2003, 00:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Well if you're ever in need of any info I can provide with my AoG or my TBP RPG books let me know. Especially anything on the variants in terms of weapons and balance.

Btw, I completely agree that AI is absolutely the worst part of modding in any game.

[pathfinder]

Trying a different model/graphic for the Vorlon destroyer:

1050845937.ZIP (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050845937.ZIP)

What do ya think?

Also working on the Vorlon Light Cruiser.

[ts22]

Where can I pick up the Gold B5 Mod? I checked out the B5 Mod page but wasn't sure which of the files I needed to play.
Also, is the Gold Version updated like the non-gold Version or will I regret sending in my original SEIV CD? Thanks!

[pathfinder]

ts22:

First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044154075.zip)

2: 1044155514.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip)

I don't know how to make this zip file load directly to the mod folder, so I just send it to a dummy folder then copy them manually to the mod folder.

[ts22]

Thanks!

[pathfinder]

ts22: you may want to d/l the "core" files from Rambies site to establish the base, then apply the files I posted. Been so long since I did anything with the MOD I can't remember what I included in the Gold files.

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

[ April 20, 2003, 22:36: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by ts22:
Also, is the Gold Version updated like the non-gold Version or will I regret sending in my original SEIV CD? Thanks!<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Gold rebate offer expired long ago...

[Geryon]

Hey Pathfinder, just checked out the new wip Vorlon Destroyer and it looks pretty cool. It definately looks clearer than the older Version which seemed a bit blurry.

My only recommendations would be trying to add the "dark patches?" that run across the hull of the ship...that black stuff that kinda swims through the hull and makes the hull look organic. As for the model itself is good, though the petals in the back don't look quite right grouped like that. All Vorlon ships I've seen with petals have them in cross shaped positions; up, down, left, right; these look grouped 2 up and 2 down. If that can't be fixed then no worries, the ship looks really good.

[pathfinder]

Geryon: This better? Those petals are a beatch...they keep occluding the ship hull from light source http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Vorlon Heavy Destroyer:

1050979054.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1050979054.zip)

I can delete a couple of the petals...2 up, 2 down?

[Geryon]

Pathfinder that looks real sweet. The armor looks real smooth, excellent job.

I might not have explained myself clearly on the petal thing. The ship looks great now as it is but just to clarify what I meant. I see you added 2 petals to extend from the sides, that's more or less what I meant. If you look at the Lightning Fighter and the Ambassador Transport they have 4 petals, one extends upwards, one downwards and one to each side...in the original Version you had 2 extending upwards and 2 downwards. Basically, the 2 petals you just added are corretcly placed but there should be 1 petal extending up and one down, not 2 up and 2 down...see what I mean now? That is of course keeping the 4 petal standard used in these ships I mentioned, it's not like they have to be all the same. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On the other hand, the ship now has a more unique look to it as it currently is with 6 petals (which no other Vorlon ship I recall has) so it's perfectly fine the way it is and doesn't require any further changes unless you personally want to change something.

It looks really good congrats.

[ April 22, 2003, 05:23: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Or simply a sans-serif "x"

From the sounds of it, you've got an "H" shape instead of an "X"

[Geryon]

Yeah like a cross. Still as I said the Last one you put up looked great so there isn't a real need to change it.

[pathfinder]

Kinda like a cross instead of an X?

[pathfinder]

I'll leave that heavy destroyer as is and add some petals to the destroyer (same model & texture, just different # of petals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

SJ: Naw, the heavy destroyer has an asterix (6 petals) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 23, 2003, 00:40: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Pathfinder's Vorlon Light Cruiser:

1051057913.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051057913.zip)

Question: Stay as is or should I change texture of the tentacles to match the "torso" or hull?

[Fyron]

Maybe the tentacles should be set to a more normal angle? They look kinda odd in that position they are in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 23, 2003, 01:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[pathfinder]

IF: At least they aren't trying the Gryphin Position or Circling the Wagon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Geryon]

That Light Cruiser is sure looking good PF. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I agree with Imperator Fyron about the tentacles. Something looks just not quite right like that...like the builder had a few too many on the job. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Are you going to use the Vorlon Destroyer from the show? The Red One.

[pathfinder]

The tentacles are a bit thick...working on them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and as for the builder having too many on the job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif (probably)

As for a red destroyer...*shrug* I have only seen 2-3 of the shows, so not sure what that is/was. only ones I have seen (in color) are from the B5 tech web site (yellowish with blue petals)

[ April 23, 2003, 03:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Wow a modder that has barely seen the theme he is currently modding...now I'm going to need a few too many. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Doesn't matter that much, the Red ship is the Vorlon Destroyer, seen mostly in background fleet shots and briefly up close in the movie Thirdspace.

But if you need references for Vorlon ships or any others, these sketches may be useful.
http://www.wolfsshipyard.mystarship.com/drawings.html

Just my recommendation though, stick towards the stuff labeled canon...those are the ships from the series and the B5 Wars game...the completely non-canon ones may have a couple of interesting ones but ultimately they look like massive kitbashes on steroids, particularly in the EA non-canon Groups. The ship size charts have some good side shots of the official ships of most races so that might give you an idea of what to search for inside the race sections.

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Hehe, yeah. Most of what I draw from are the AoG books, the B5 tech website and a couple of others I have since lost the links to. and talking back and forth with Val (and others)...

[Geryon]

Well I'm afraid I'll still be only of partial use since severe shipping problems have delayed the arrival of my game...this is so disappointing, I ordered it almost 2 weeks ago and was supposed to receive it in 2 days and they haven't even shipped it to me yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

God I hope they can sort this out because I'm really interested in playing this darn Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

I made some new ship models for the Vorlon shipset. The destroyer/heavy destroyer hull seemed a bit blurred (IMHO) and the transports & colony ships minis didn't look right (again IMHO); so I made new ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

1051150999.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051150999.zip)

[jimbob]

Kinda whacky that there's a colony ship picture, but that the ancients can't colonize http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

jimbob

[Geryon]

I like the new shipset very much PF. Vorlons with colony ships is a bit weird but I suppose practical and necessary for the game.

Hell, they do have a bunch of territories aside their homeworld they must have transported colonists there with something...somehow I doubt they all appeared in those planets out of spontaneous combustion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Vorlon colonyships: The game would use a ship from that folder or a generic one and I prefer a race specific one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Yes, as currently configured in "normal" or as prefferred by most, especially in PBW the Ancients are not capable of colonizing EXCEPT when planets are gifted. However, one CAN setup single-player to have them enable to colonize (VERY tough games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

[ April 25, 2003, 01:35: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Klebdog]

Where can I find the EMP Files for all the other races on the Mod or do I need to go in and do them myself?

[pathfinder]

KlebDoG: If you are in a hurry do them yourself OR wait until I can zip what I have and post them. Which Version of SEIV do you have (Gold and 1.49 "old" have different files)?

[pathfinder]

Pathfinder's B5 .emp files for the 1.49 "old" Version of game:1051309218.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051309218.zip)

Pathfinder's B5 .emp files for the Gold Version of game:

1051309310.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051309310.zip)

[pathfinder]

My current single-player game (B5 Gold): Narns seem to bit off too much--at war with both ShagToth and Minbari. They ShagToth on the ropes then blam their fleet got hosed or left to take on the Minbari and then got hosed there...

I have the EA and am at war with Minbari and dancing a fine line between the Brakirii and Vorlons who are at war with each other..

[ April 26, 2003, 20:59: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Can someone that knows where they are post links to all of the latest files for the 1.49 Version and the Gold Version of the B5 Mod?

[pathfinder]

IF, this is the latest Gold less the Vorlon graphics updates I posted a day or so ago:

First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044154075.zip)

2: 1044155514.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip)

You may want to d/l the gold "base" stuff from Rambie's site then overlay this into it.

I don't know how to make this zip file load directly to the mod folder, so I just send it to a dummy folder then copy them manually to the mod folder.

[ April 26, 2003, 21:08: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Hey PF, just to make sure I have everything I need to run the Gold Version of the mod when the game finally arrives, could you list me exactly which files I need, I seem to have about a thousand zips right now...

Currently I have everything in Rambie's site; Core, data files, and 3 updates. I also have your Gold conVersion, latest Vorlon shipset and the new emps you just released. Do I need anything else? And in what order should I install these?

Should I first install the Core, then normal data and 3 updates and then your gold conVersion, shipset and emps? Or should I just install the Core and then your Gold conVersion, shipset and emps? Thanks bud.

Btw, what are those new emps for? I guess I'll find out what an emp is when my game arrives huh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Oh yeah and one more question, how does the combined League race work if you have them separated by race? There's Brakiri in the League race fighting the Barkiri government? Was wondering about that.

[ April 27, 2003, 03:08: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Geryon:

Do I need anything else?

And in what order should I install these?
Should I first install the Core, then normal data and 3 updates and then your gold conVersion, shipset and emps?

Btw, what are those new emps for?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1-Not that I know of.

2-Yes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (I thimk).

3-The .emp are the basic start-up setup factors for your race and the AI (numeric values for how well a race does certain characteristics/traits)

Before doing this look at the folder & file structure of the game. The Mod should be in its own sub-folder which looks something like this (crosses fingers that I get it right): shrapnelgames/malfador/seiv/B5

[ April 27, 2003, 03:16: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

LNAW Vs Brakiri or others in the LNAW? hehe...it gets confusing at times....no way to stop it unless you manually setup the races that you play against in single-player.

[Geryon]

Thanks Bud. Hopefully I'll get the game on Monday and start wrecking havoc in the B5 universe. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Have you thought about using the Tethys Cutter, Artemis Heavy Frigate and Sagittarius Missile Cruiser? Or any other B5 Wars ships I could help you out with?

Thanks again.

[ April 27, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Actually yes on the other ships....seems the Nova is being used as a destroyer, so maybe an enterprising soul could re-do some the ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Geryon]

It's such a shame when I think about it. Long ago, before I even had ordered the game I had made my very own EA shipset but eventually erased it when I was convinced I wasn't getting the game...oh well.

Anything in particular I should know about the ships or at least the type of ships you'd like me to find? So that I might have an idea of what to look for.

Still keep the Nova in there though, I love that ship. The only thing that I've never agreed with is the Nova firing lasers, fine with Omegas that have a specialized turret to fire both pulse and beam weapons but the Nova has exactly the same cannons as always I kinda like the idea of it firing the heaviest pulse weapons (stronger than the Omega's) but no lasers, after all the pulse cannons on the Warlock are the ones taken from the Nova stated by Tim Earls CGI director of B5 and creator of the ships.

[ April 27, 2003, 04:06: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon: How's this for a Tethys? Darn hard to get the aft or rear done correctly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

1051453497.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051453497.zip)

Oh, and would the Tethys be a scout/escort or corvette/frigate or some other class/size?

EA Sagittarius missile cruiser?:

1051456890.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051456890.zip)

EA Artemis?:

1051463470.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051463470.zip)

One thing to think abou: SEIV has the ships set by class/size (scout, escort, corvette, frigate, destroyer, etc) not by model (Sagitturus, Tethys, Nova, etc).

[ April 27, 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Hey Pathfinder. Those aren't bad at all, still they are a bit different from the actual ships. Here is a link to a B5 RPG which currently is using these ships:
http://www.sgnOnline.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=789

Those are small pics of the high poly models. If you need multi-angle shots, I can provide them for you using the models I have for my ST Armada 2 B5TC. I can send you pictures of that and any other ship you need to give you an idea what they look like. Just let me know how it'd be best for you; if by E-mail or if you have MSN Meesenger I can give them to you directly.

As for the sizes, the Tethys is a Cutter (that's the classification of patrol boats used by the Coast Guard) so I suppose the nearest thing in SE4 could be either Escort or Scout. The Sagittaius is a Guided Missile Cruiser so you can classify it as any kind of Cruiser you want, though the Sagittarius is used as a ranged artillery ship only, no pulse or beam cannons so maybe it might be considered less than the Hyperion which has both pulse and beams (maybe the Sag can be a light cruiser? Or any class that might be used as a artillery ship). The Artemis is a Heavy Frigate. Frigates usually have special roles and weapons suited for that role. The Artemis is equipped with 4 forward and 2 backward Rail Guns. Rail Guns (in case you don't know) are cannons that use series of magnets to propel uranium shells at extremely high velocities, these shells punch through enemy armor and explode releasing high radiation (kinda double wammy) the trouble with Rail Guns is that they have to be constantly reloaded since they use munitions, still the Artemis is a bit bigger than the Olympus Corvette (somewhere between 450-500 meters in length-Olympus is 444m) and the Artemis is also made with the thickest armor for its size making it a really deadly opponent (it's listed as the only ship really capable of damaging Minbari Sharlins dring the war).

[tesco samoa]

That is a cool forum... Very interesting...

All I have to say is why ? Why give me another forum... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Geryon]

Sorry there Tesco, that's where the Armada 2 mods are based, along with the B5 one.

They also play that B5 RPG and since they have the EA shiplist which has all the ships except the Warlock and Omega-X (because they aren't in that timeline yet, they're playing season 2).

Anyways, I thought PF could use those pics of the ships we were talking about, near the bottom of the thread, as reference.

[pathfinder]

Hmmm...details. Having difficulty with details and if I manage to do them then they don't show when rendered...limitations of DOGA (and me) I am afraid. I'll keep plugging as I find time.

Yes, the pics are excellent (better than the sketches I have in the AoG books).

[Geryon]

So do you need me to take those multi-angle shots for you? Or are those pics enough?

If you want me to take the shots let me know how to send it to you, e-mail or if you have MSN, let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Btw, the ship you made for the Sagittarius looks a lot like the Oracle Scout Cruiser (used for Electronic Intelligence). It's almost the same hull frame as the Sagittarius minus the Missile racks, there is a pic of the Oracle in the link I gave you also, in case you still want to use it.

[ April 28, 2003, 02:13: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

I have details enough I think, just gonna be a bit difficult to get some of the detail work to show.

DOGA is a decent, if simple, 3-d modeler & renderer. It has some limitations, mainly difficult doing curves and a limited group of parts to bolt together. I have had very limited success in making those parts myself.

[Geryon]

Is there any particular reason you need to model the ships themselves? Cant't you make the large bitmaps from the pictures in that link I gave you? You do have the same Poseidon, Nova and Hyperion as they do.

The only portraits I see giving somewhat dificulty are the minis because they are overhead shots, but I can take overhead pictures of the Armada models and convert them to bmp. Unless you specifically need or want to make the models. It could save you a lot of grief just using the pictures in the link and I can provide the overheads, just a thought. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

No problem, either way. BTW, welcome to SEIV and the B5 MOD http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Since the majority of the EA bitmaps/pics are copies of stuff from the internet it maybe be better for consistency if pics rather renders of 3-d models are used http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Portraits are 128 pixels by 128 pixels and minis are 36 x 36 pixels. Both have black backgrounds (for transparency against the system graphics).

[ April 28, 2003, 02:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Thanks for the welcome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I should be able to have the portraits and minis by later tonight or tomorrow, we can discuss weapons loadouts then. As you know I don't have the game yet and will rely on you for that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I'll give you a shout when the Artemis, Tethys and Saggi are ready for "deployment".

[pathfinder]

Cool!

Coupla pointers (if you don't already know)...mini's the bow is normally at the top of the pic. If it isn't close to straight the image "wriggles" as it goes across the screen. No real big deal as even some of the "stock" images do that. The portrait is used in-game as a larger pic used when designing, etc. The mini is what actually goes across the screen during movement.

Weapon load-outs are set in the designcreation.txt file for each of the races. Primary and secondary weapons can be designated and usually the AI will place, after researched, at least 1 point defense (anti-fighter) weapon. Kinda limits what the AI will use. I keep having to re-visit this file as I find out more of the load-outs. One caution is that numerous variants per "canon" probably won't go. One as top-end for each class is of course. No telling what shows up before, except the AI uses "best" of currently available of each weapon designated for each class in the designcreation.txt. Of course, as the non-computer player, you can be as close or far from canon as you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Me I use the it depends...against Minbari, Shadows and Vorlons I use ballistic weapons for the stand-off. Others, just depends how "in your face" I feel http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

e-mail: OF_pathfinder@hotmail.com

[ April 28, 2003, 03:24: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Ok, I'm done. I'll be sending the zip to your E-mail. It includes the Artemis Heavy Frigate, Tethys Cutter and Sagittarius Missile Cruiser and their minis, additionally I added a new Warlock I thought looked nice, in case you agreem, if not the current one is fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As far as weapons go, since I only partially grasp the concept of how they work in SE4, what I can tell you is that I prefer to maintain the canon weapons loadouts in ships. For example, I love the idea of upgrading the Hyperion's pulse weapons to as high as they eventually got (medium particle pulse in the main turret, heavy plasma in the single batteries throughout the rest of the ship) plus upgrading the side turrets from the plasma pulse cannons to the X-Ray laser beams (the refit done post-Minbari War) but I wouldn't like to see say the Hyperion fire lasers from all turrets (as I've seen in other game mods). But that's just my personal preference. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also out of pure curiosity...I noticed that the Lorkan, Markab and Gaim (Complete shipsets) and the Llort and Yolu (only a few bmps) are in the regular mod but not in your Gold conVersion. Any plans of converting the Lorkan, Markab and Gaim (Or do they work in the Gold Version as they are)? And thinking of completing the Llort and Yolu maybe including the Ipsha?

I was also wondering, since you've separated the League races into their own governments why do you have a League race?

[ April 28, 2003, 06:15: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Got 'em. They look good!

[Geryon]

Great, for armaments and sizes which should help when creating the ship information.

Tethys, is mainly an anti-fighter ship designed to patrol trade routes and protect against Raiders. It's weapons should be composed of anti-fighter weapons (if that's possibe) they can also be used as an anti-fighter screen when in fleet combat. The Tethys is a Cutter, possibly around 400 meters long and is the smallest capital ship in the EA. As far as it's behavior, this ship would work best as a defense ship I believe, though it should only be able to target fighters (if that's possible).

Sagittarius, is one of the oldest designs in Earth Force predating the Dilgar War. It's mission is basically to fire ballistic artilley (missiles) at long ranges. Particularly good against immobile targets such as bases and turrets though it is also perfectly capable of firing its missiles at other ships (Though it can do this fairly well, it's no where near as accurate against other ships as the Warlock's missile arrays). The Saggy has 4 main missile racks but no pulse or laser batteries (It is stated that it does have anti-fighter particle beams though). It's size should be a little smaller than the Hyperion Heavy Cruiser, possibly somewhere between 1100-1300 meters in length. This ship will probably always attack at maximum range since it only fires long range missiles.

The Artemis was designed to use the full capacity of the Rail Guns. It fires 4 forward Rail Guns and 2 backwards, the turrets can turn of course. It additionally carries 2 anti-fighter particle beams which are at it's sides. The Artemis has the thickest armor per inch of any other EA ship, making it sustain huge amounts of damage and continue to operate. The only flaw in the Rail Guns is that they have to be reloaded (though I don't know if that might work ingame). The Artemis is a Heavy Frigate, a bit bigger than the Olympus Corvette, approx. 500 meters in length. This ship could be set to attack from either optimum firing position or close range, whichever you think best.

I hope those small descriptions help so you can make the appropriate ship files and get them working in game. If you need anything please let me know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And any word if the Gaim, Lorkan, Markab, Llort and Yolu work in the current Gold Version?

I've been also looking at the weapons loadouts in the design creation text and to say they are a bit confusing is putting it mildly. I see some lines of main and secondary weapons and number values attached to them...I'm assuming the numbers somehow match the weapkn the ship is supposed to have? I also noticed several unused design types such as Heavy Destroyer, Frigate, Corvette, Heavy Cruiser, and several fighter types. Maybe these can be useful for the new ships?

[ April 29, 2003, 08:14: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[Fyron]

The B5 Mod PBW game could use a replacement for the Abbai.

[Pocus]

which site host the B5 mod?
Is it playable solo, with fair AI?

does PBW games are launched often, I'm not ready still http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Rambie's site hosts the mod. Skim back through the Last few pages to find a link to it in his sig.

[Geryon]

Well my game finally arrived today (oh thank God) and I've been studying the manual to learn how it works and what can be done with it.

Pathfinder, you've been MIA for a couple of days, I hope everything's all right and it's nothing worse than finals or schoolwork (though that sucks too I know). I hope the descriptions and info I gave on the 3 ships in my Last post serve of some use for getting them ingame. I look forward to seeing them in any update you can put them in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also if you're interested I think I might be able to find the Cotton Fleet Tender to play the role of repair ship, if you'd like let me know.

Also a buddy of mine just got the game also, he had some difficulty in the installation process and I believe I read a few pages back that you should install into a temp folder and pass everything manually? Could you clarify this a bit for me so I can tell him exactly how to get the game going because he told me that he could see a B5 title and events but none of the races worked, he added the EA separately and then it worked. So if you can help me through the installation process I'll guide him (and myself lol) through it. Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ April 29, 2003, 21:44: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon: One your question on the weapons & numbers---yes there are number codes for each weapon and that is how the AI decides what weapon(s) to place into each class of ship. Based on what has been researched and what is placed in the designcreation.txt file is what the AI ends up putting its ships. There are tonnage limits so after adding engines, reactors, ecm, sensors, armor and weapons space goes very fast. That is why canon ships will be a rarity (IMHO) in the AI ships and probably even in the human-designed ones until research has gone on for a while. The AI files can come close but not very close....

as for installation, hopefully someone else can clarify what I am about to butcher:

1: the MOD folder is placed as a sub-folder of the main SEIV folder. Critical here is the path file which is usually "naked" in the SEIV main folder has a statement in it "Using Mod Directory := None"; however, in order to use a mod one must say something like "Using MOD Directory :=B5". Or somefink like that. what I use is the SEIV launcher (it is included on the GOLD CD as the "Modlaunching" zip file in the extras folder).

I honestly can't remember the exact sequence but goes like this:

d/l the basic files from rambies site, then sequentially the patches then the gold update I did. hopefully this will get the files in the right place. when done the strructure should be :

Space Empires IV Gold/B5 (or B5 MOD or B5 MOD GOLD)/AI,DATA/Dsgnname, Empires, Facilities, Maps, Pictures, Readme, Sounds. In other words there is very nearly a complete new set of graphics, AI & facility & data files within the MOD. They follow the same general pattern as the un-modded game, at least in arrangement of folders and files. Hope I haven't confused you.....

Reason I install "out of game" is it is easier for ME to sort it out that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

and yes, me been pre-occupied: Father-in-law died and been getting stuff here & at work ready so I can attend funeral.

[ April 29, 2003, 23:43: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Thanks for the clarification. I am sorry to hear about your father-in-law you and your family have my deepest condolences and take as much time as you need to sort out your family business.

Thank you also on the clarification of the installing process, you didn't confuse me...at least too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'll install to a clean folder and see how folders are set up then I'll go over this again and make sure everything matches to what you said.

On the weapons thing, I guess then all I have to do is match the number values to the weapons to see what numbers mean what weapons and also examine the weapons per class to find out what weapons you've got on the ships, and hopefully I can figure out how to add the Tethys, Artemis and Saggitarius ingame (I senserely doubt just renaming the bmps will get them ingame and with proper weapons). If I can figure out how to do it I'll give it a go to take some of the workload off you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I also am confident I can find the EA Repair ship. I'll see if I can work out the Repair ship, supply ship and maybe a Minaelayer/sweeper also for you. Though it might be a while and I might not figure it out and have to ask you to get all of these ships ingame once you can get to mod again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Take care.

[pathfinder]

Get them in game no problem...with canon weapons would be or at least perfectly canon...

Look at the regular game and see how the .bmp naming convention goes.

example: say you want the Tethys to represent the EarthAlliance escort class: the larger .bmp would be named EarthAlliance_Portrait_Escort.bmp and the mini would be named EarthAlliance_Mini_Escort.bmp. These two files would then be placed in the B5/Pictures/Races/EarthAlliance folder. They would replace whatever image currently represents that class for the EarthAlliance.

Also note one thing: If you want to establish particular .bmp for repair ships it CAN be done but a data file called vehiclesize.txt would need modifying to change the .bmp called from the regular transpot(s) to the "special" repair ship .bmp.

currently the .bmp maps used are:

Small repair tug = transportsmall
Medium repair tug = transportmedium
Large repair tug = transportlarge

[ April 30, 2003, 01:05: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

A decent "How-to-Mod" site is Imperator Fyron's at:

http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/ModdingTutorial.html

It may help clarify some of the jibbering I am making.

[Geryon]

Thanks again for the info and I'll definately be studying IF's "How to newbie SE4 modding".

I'll see if I can get these darn things operational or not. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Nomor]

Val has a Cotton Class bmp which would serve for a Repair Tug, he just hasn't used it yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif And a generic small cargo transporter from the DVD.(very nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif )

He also has new Hurr Abbai and others, race portraits from the DVD series.

We'll just have to wait for an update. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Sorry PF, I hadn't read all the Posts.

[ April 30, 2003, 04:16: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Fyron]

I could still use someone to take over the Abbai in the PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

A decent "How-to-Mod" site is Imperator Fyron's at... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So did you pick decent to imply that it could use some work to be better, or did you just pick a random word akin to "good"? If there are problems with/in it, I'll be glad to fix them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Geryon]

Thanks for the scoop Nomor. I'm highly anticipating any kind of update from Val, but I'm still interested in helping out with whatever I can. I'm far from being any kind of real help because I'm a complete noob to SE4 modding. I'm practicing though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It's good to hear Val has some more stuff, I already created the Cotton Tender bmps and I made the bmps for the Majestic Freighter (that's the same as the EA cargo freighter but with fuel tanks) to use possibly as a supply ship that goes with the fleets. I am lacking a Minelayer/Sweeper though have no idea what to use for that. In any case, I can use these myself as placeholders until Val delivers the real ones unless Pathfinder wants to look at them as temp placeholders for the mod also. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oh and IF, I'll let you know if your tutorial is effective on a newbie like me or just repeated sets of migraines after I give it a good read through and test it out lol.

[ April 30, 2003, 08:52: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Yeah, Val has race sets of the following from me: Brakirii (needs major re-work as some of the ships stink), partial Raiders, Gaim, Pak'Ma'Ra, re-do of Drazi, Abbai, Dilgar. The Abbai and Pak'Ma'Ra are available here at Shrapnel in the race style forum.

Example:

The rough Dilgar ship set for B5 MOD:

1043037950.ZIP (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1043037950.ZIP)

Abbai B5 placeholder racestyle/shipset.

1034052611.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1034052611.zip)

[ April 30, 2003, 11:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Netra]

When will there be a B5 mod for the gold Version of SEIV ready for use? if there is one ready what is the link? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Fyron]

Just skim back through the Last several pages of Posts to find it.

PF:
You missed my question. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Pocus]

Netra :

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

but incomplete it seems.

[Geryon]

You did include most of these partial races or placeholder ones with your Gold conVersion I see, except the Gaim. The Pak'Ma'Ra, Dilgar and Abbai don't look bad at all imo. The Drazi have a few problems because of the coloring on some of their ships, I saw several Sunhawks with the front section green.

I see what you mean though about the Brakiri, I don't believe I saw a single one of their ships in there, if it's any help I can give you portraits for the following Brakiri ships: Avioki Heavy Cruiser, Tashkat Advanced Battlecruiser, Halik Gunboat, Falkosi Heavy Fighter and Brokados Carrier, it's not a lot but at least it's a start for the Brakiri if you want them.

[pathfinder]

Pocus & netra: As Imerator Fyron says go back a couple of Posts or pages and I have the other files that flesh out the B5 MOD or at least to the point it is at...(yes, incomplete)

Geryon: reason no Brakirii are shown is I did not include the set I did. They are REALLY rough. I'll post later tonite and you can use or not as you wish but be sure to have a barf bag ready http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Avioki I did is REALLY bad...

[ April 30, 2003, 22:08: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

PF: Lol, ok I have the bag prepared and lots of Pepto Bismol...I also have a psychiatrist on speed dial in case this will cause permanent psychological damage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Btw, what are those extended Groups of ships I see a lot used for? I've seen a lot of shipsets (outside the B5 mod) that have an extended group of ships like infantry, Carriermassive, resourcestation, resourceship,worldship, etc. Does the AI use these additional units as well or can it be made to?

[pathfinder]

The extended shipsets are what are called neostandard set and yes the AI can be made to do those. B5 has the infantry as an "added value" to "troops". This what I was referring to when I said we could make the AI use the Cotton for a repair ship. all it would mean is changing one line in the vehiclesize.txt file in B5/data folder. course that means the B5 coder/programmer (I guess me since Val is AWOL again) would have to figure out what to call the ship in the AI folder. Probably somefink like repairshipsmall, repairshiplarge and repairshipmedium and change the line in the data folder. *shrug* can be done..

[ April 30, 2003, 22:07: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

1051737325.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051737325.zip)

The Brakirii ship set I did for the B5 MOD. Really VERY rough set (placeholder only). Has a Gold compliant AI.

Bare, nekked files as it were so unzip accordingly.

[Geryon]

Gotcha. Are you interested in using these additional ships though. I already made the EA Repair and Supply ships and can look for other things as needed.

Additionally, the Brakiri aren't as bad as I was expecting, some of the models are a bit plain yes but the overall designs aren't terrible at all. Still, I already made portrait/minis for the Avioki Heavy Cruiser, Tashkat Battlecruiser, Brokados Carrier, Falkosi Heavy Fighter and Halik Gunboat.

If you want the Brakiri ships I made and the EA repair and supply ships I can send them to you. Otherwise, I'll start working on getting them ingame at least for myself until Val or you develop the real ones http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[pathfinder]

Geryon: go ahead and e-mail them. I won't be able to do much with them though until Sunday.

I'll do that vehiclesize.txt change after loading them in...should work AND provide some variety http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 30, 2003, 23:58: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Great, they're on their way. If you can get these and the other 3 EA ships I sent you; Artemis, Tethys, and Saggitarius I'd really appreciate it. If not then I'll manage to get them in eventually. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Gaim, you say found not?

In pictures/races neutral look you must...

OR this download....

1051748635.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1051748635.zip)

[ May 01, 2003, 01:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[jimbob]

The Gaim shipset looks great to me! (IMHO)
And with the exception of just a few ships that need textures, the Brakirii look great too.

jimbob

[ May 01, 2003, 02:36: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon, anyone???: Other than the EA, who had fleet tenders (repair tugs)?

After getting home Sunday I just may try to figger out how to make the EA AI design and BUILD repair tugs...and any other race that had repair ships in-fleet

Putting Cotton in as RepairTugMedium. Is the Majestic a larger civilian ship? If so, it will be the repairtuglarge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Halik "gunboat" = ??? Heavy Destroyer? Frigate?

[ May 01, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

I have repair ships for other races but they are completely non-canon and were developed for the Armada 2 B5 mod. I'm not sure if you're interested in those but that's the best I can offer at the moment.

The reason I have the EA Cotton Tender is because that ship was developed (though never used) for the show, no other repair ships were created for any other race in the show. B5 Wars also didn't create any repair ships either (hell they don't even use the Cotton) so repair ships have been created from made up/or kitbashed designs. Still if you're interested in that I can send you what I have.

So you received the Last zip I sent you? Were the Brakiri and EA ships ok?

I'm definately going to check out these Gaim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Majestic is a resupply ship, fuel and maybe weapons and the such so that ships don't require to go back to starbases all the time.

The Halik is the SE4 equivalent of either an escort or the ship that goes just above that one but smaller than a standard Cruiser.

[ May 01, 2003, 03:25: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

I guess that Halik will be the corvette (between escort and Frigate) then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yup, got 'em (other pics) that's why me askin' about their size/type http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 01, 2003, 03:43: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Ok then. In the E-mail I sent with the Lastest zip I briefly mentioned the classes of both the Brakiri and all of the EA ships I sent you. If you need any further info such as weapons or actual sizes let me know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Btw what do I do with the neutral races that are the same as the new normal ones like the Abbai and Gaim? Do I leave the neutral Versions of these races in the mod also or just use the new ones? And also will these new races like the Gaim, Dilgar, Raiders, etc work without an emp file? Because there aren't any.

[ May 01, 2003, 09:34: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Neutral Versions are the same as the others (I think). I'd leave them neutral ...for now anyways. You could, to make sure that AI isn't pre-Gold, overlay them (I gave the Gaim and Abbai their own AI even if neutral).

Neutrals don't require an .emp IIRC. It is better if "regular" races do...

[ May 01, 2003, 12:30: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Abbai still need a replacement player in the B5 Mod Game on PBW.

[Geryon]

Ok thanks for the info. I'll leave both normal and neutral Versions installed for now.

Have you decided the positions of the Brakiri and the other EA ships I sent you?

Halik as the Corvette sounds real good. Here's my suggestion for the ships. I guess you can put the Avioki as either the Heavy Cruiser or Battlecruiser if you want, the Tashkat maybe as the Battleship or Dreadnought, the Brokdaos would probably work as either the normal or large Carrier, Falkosi as the normal or large fighter. As for the EA I was thinking the Tethys could be the Escort, the Olympus (currently the Frigate) could be placed as the Corvette and the Artemis made the Frigate, the Saggitarius is tough, maybe the light cruiser or some kinda cruiser (doesn't really matter all that much all this ship does is spew out missile after missile), the Cotton sounds perfect as the medium repair tug and the Majestic I'd say as the supply ship. Any and all of these are subject to change to your personal preference, better suggestions, drunken mishap or innate madness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And on a separate note...a buddy of mine is having problems with combat. He plays in tactical combat but lets the comp control the battle. But he tells me that then he can't access any of the panels and doesn't know how to accelerate or end the battles which drag on for a long time. Do you have any idea what this is about or how to get around it?

[ May 01, 2003, 17:10: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[Nomor]

PF I don't think anyone else did.

The Repair Tug was my bright idea to Val when I first started emailing him. He liked it so much he bunged it in the mod pronto and got me working on other aspects. It was just coincidence that a Cotton Class supply ship was found on B5TECH.com.

The idea was to have a ship that could tow stranded vessels out of Black Hole systems. However the programme did not allow for this kind of action http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif so the only compromise was to have a ship that could repair even if badly damaged.

It would make sense for any space age race to have some means of rescue or repair for ships that are very expensive to produce. EA have the Cotton Supply vessels, but any large ship like the Carriers should also be able to serve this function although not to the same degree as the specialist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Other races could simple modify an existing combat hull to this purpose. Advanced races like the Abbai and Minbari etc. would simply have one of their large battle cruisers modified to serve this roll, and leave it looking like any other ship so as to not attract undue attention or reveal it's vulnerability.

I'm sure that most EA war ships can link up air locks and tether to one another to act as an engine for the other. Even the fighters had a grapple design to allow them to piggy back, so to speak. Other races with less modular designs would have to be explained away some other way.

The Cotton Class could be made available to the lesser league races as a sort of lend lease, like the Sherman Tanks to the Brits in WWII. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

IF: I'm sorry I can't take on the Abbai, limited PC time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ May 01, 2003, 21:43: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[pathfinder]

Geryon: I did pretty much as you patterned for the EA and only slight variance for them : the Majestic I have as the large repair ship. The Brakiri same except: Taskat as the Brakiri battlecruiser.

and as for the other repair ships. the AI currently uses the tarnsport .bmp as the ship hull. *shrug* no biggie (IMHO). The AI will design the repairships but I haven't seen them use the hull yet...I'd probably have to put a call for that in the vehicle construction file (not sure how to do that)..

[ May 04, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[jimbob]

RE: B5 PBW game.

Hey, I just got an RCE error message when playing my turn. Actually I got a few of them, and I just clicked the "ok" box. What effect will this have on my turn? Is it a real RCE message? I ask because I was able to finish my turn. unfortunately my sector screen and my galaxy screen went completely black.

Help?

[pathfinder]

jimbob: ugh....mine went ok, so not sure what happened. Not sure what the cure would be...what race are you?

[ May 04, 2003, 02:40: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[jimbob]

playing the Raiders. Made a medium transport ship with a speed of 10.

I've never come across the RCE message before - I guess my biggest question is "how screwed am I" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[pathfinder]

good question: In single-player: not much (go to turn before and not do the action that caused the RCE and maybe it won't show again). However, since this is PBW....wondering if you are using "regular" Raiders or B5 nomad...the Nomad stuff is incomplete (as is Technomage).

[jimbob]

I inherited the race from Canuck. He had realized that the nomadic trait was incomplete, so designed them to be "normal". I'm pretty sure that my error message was independent of the racial traits.

So will my turn process?

[pathfinder]

Don't know: This my 1st PBW and I am not sure of the mechanics.

[Geryon]

Hey Pathfinder sounds like a real good setup. Since the Boards had apperently taken a nosedive recently I tried to use your advise and Imperator Fyron's modding tutorial to get those darn Repair ships set up.

As you suggested I copied the file of the medium and large repair tugs and renamed them so they can use the Cotton's and Majestic's bmps. I'm hoping I did this right all I changed was the first 2 lines (Name and short name) from medium and large repair tug to medium and large fleet tender. I also changed the bmp name so that these new entries use the Cotton and Majestic bmp and not the transports. Everything else I left the same though, Code and every other line.

I hope you don't find this too disappointing but as I was toying around with the Tenders I kinda got inspired and rearranged the EA shipset for myself, here's my new list:
Baseship: Victory
Dreadnought: Warlock
Battleship: Omega-X
BattleCruiser: Omega
Heavy Cruiser: Nova
Cruiser: Tempest
Light Cruiser: Hyperion
Heavy Destroyer: Saggitarius
Destroyer: Equador (that's your current Cruiser)
Frigate: Artemis
Corvette: Olympus
Escort: Tethys
Medium Repair Ship: Majestic
Large Reapir Ship: Cotton
Tiny Transport: Iron Side Crew Shuttle
Small Transport: Skylark (Your current Escort)
Medium Transport: Kneale (Your current Large Transport)
Large Transport: Asimov (The unused ship in set)

I kept the Carriers, stations, troops etc the same. But I got "inspired" so I made some of the new ships you see up there, lucky for me all of the other sizes (beside the new repair ships) were already in the vehiclesize.txt. I know there is some AI file I have to edit for the EA to use all of these as well but I don't know what file and what to change (since I play EA it isn't a necessity for the time being). So what do you think? Any comments, suggestions, flying cabbage? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I also incorporated the Brakiri ships I made, and replaced 2 of the Drazi green ships with a couple of Drazi ships you have in the generic race folder.

The next thing I will tackle though wilkl be those Minbari Transports, having the Centauri Carrier there is just disturbing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif For the small transport I was thinking the non-combat Flyer, for medium maybe the Blue Star since they have the WS, and for the Large Transport I think the trasport from the movie In the Beginning. Any ideas?

[AGoetz]

re : new Gaim shipset
As I'm laying the Gaim in the PBW I just had have a look. Ohh, pretty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

re : RCEs in PBW
No idea on what effect it has during a players turn. I know in single player that a RCE during the AI processing kills the game. Tip : never let the combined ship speed from your engines (before the divisor from ship size, not counting bonus moves) pass 255. Simple Version of this rule - keep your engine count to at most 30 and you should be safe no matter what engines you fit. It's a limitation of the game engine.

[pathfinder]

Geryon: in order for the game to use those repair tug images you have to re-set a line in yhe data/vehiclesize.txt. I'll post that file ASAP.

I named the repair tug .bmp:

small: repairtugsmall
medium: repairtugmedium
large: repairtuglarge

The .bmp should be named the same.

OR

here is the line I changed:

Name := Small Repair Tug
Short Name := Small Repair Tug
Description := A small craft based off of a standard Small Transport hull that has 2 on board Maint Bots capable of doing on the spot repairs. Extra crew quarters are required for the workers.
Code := SRT
Primary Bitmap Name := RepairTugSmall
Alternate Bitmap Name := TransportSmall

I changed the "primary bitmap name" line.

same line changed for medium and large tugs. as you see the shipsets that do not have a bitmap with the specific name will use the transoport ship as their .bmp.

[Geryon]

Ok so it's pretty much as I thought, thanks. I'll be refitting it accordingly to match what you described. Hey what do you think of using the Tonka Construction Fury as the small repair tug?

Will the AI build ships such as the Heavy Destroyer, Corvette and the such? Because as of now my EA has a full house shipset.

I'll also give you a holler once I have those Minbari Transports done if you'd like them.

[ May 04, 2003, 13:46: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

Yes, the AI will build corvette, heavy destroyer, etc. now with "new" bitmap images a different pic will be displayed. The AI will build them in accordance with the instructions in the designcreation.txt file for each of the races that have them. those that do not will will a "generic" one from the racegeneric folder.

On the EA small transport: ok by me..

hehe, on the Minbari:

I had changed all (tiny, small, medium) but the large transport to placeholders made in DOGA. So fire away http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 14:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Change to vehiclesize.txt. Allows a new bitmap (repairtugsmall/medium/large)for repair Tug.

1052089468.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052089468.zip)

[Dragonswrd]

What is the link for the most up to date B5 Mod?

[pathfinder]

Dragonsword:

I honestly can't remember the exact sequence but goes like this:

d/l the basic files from rambies site ( http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm ), then sequentially the patches then the gold update I did.

IF, this is the latest Gold less the Vorlon graphics updates I posted a day or so ago:

First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044154075.zip)

2: 1044155514.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip)

hopefully this will get the files in the right place. when done the strructure should be :

Space Empires IV Gold/B5 (or B5 MOD or B5 MOD GOLD)/AI,DATA/Dsgnname, Empires, Facilities, Maps, Pictures, Readme, Sounds. In other words there is very nearly a complete new set of graphics, AI & facility & data files within the MOD. They follow the same general pattern as the un-modded game, at least in arrangement of folders and files. Hope I haven't confused you.....

Reason I install "out of game" is it is easier for ME to sort it out that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 03:16: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Dragonswrd]

whats rambies sites address? I use to have it but lost it in a restore.

[Dragonswrd]

Duh, never mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Lurking while I posted, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Dragonswrd]

Pretty much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Geryon]

Thanks so much for the updated vehiclesize.txt Pathfinder. I've almost finished those Minbari Transports but I haven't found a decent Blue Star picture for the main portrait, I should have them done soon enough though.

[Darlarorian]

Knock, Knock, nobody help me? XD

[Suicide Junkie]

Looking up that game on PBW, I see someone with your name in there.
PBW says:
Game information
Owner: Imperator Fyron
Turn number: 2404.1
Players/max: 15/15
Last turn: May 3, 2003 6:11:18 PM EDT
Next turn: May 5, 2003 6:11:18 PM EDT
Turn duration: 48 hours
Turn automation: After Last player upload only (key)
SE4 Version: v1.49 + Babylon 5 Mod Ver 1.49.33 <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since you're looking at se4 gold, you surely don't have the right Version, and almost certainly don't have SE4 classic to play with.

[Darlarorian]

Ok, my fault then. :\

[Fyron]

For ease of downloading, I have uploaded the entire B5 Mod 1.49.33 in one single (24 MB) zip file. It is here:
B5 Mod 1.49.33.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052175132.zip)

[Darlarorian]

Pathfinder

I have done all the whole thing, downloaded all the files.
I replaced the Abbai in the pwb game, btw.

But when I try to load the save game, (las turn), says:

"The Data Files currently being used do not match the datafiles that were used when this game was started. Please check with your host to get the correct data files".

What is the problem?, really I don´t know it.

If any player of the mod in pwb read this, plz, tell me where I can download the whole mod,(with the files ok placed), you are using to play there.

If, of course, you are playing SEIVGold 1.84+B5Mod, if not, I must forget to play with you, guys.

Thanks.

[pathfinder]

Trying my hand at a shipset for the Yolu (can't find pics so my imaginashun iz free! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

only have up to heavy destroyer made so far...

[jimbob]

re : RCEs in PBW
No idea on what effect it has during a players turn. I know in single player that a RCE during the AI processing kills the game. Tip : never let the combined ship speed from your engines (before the divisor from ship size, not counting bonus moves) pass 255. Simple Version of this rule - keep your engine count to at most 30 and you should be safe no matter what engines you fit. It's a limitation of the game engine. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, gentlemen, me thinks we have a problem. You can look at my Posts over on PBW if you're so inclined but basically I'll reiterate here:

The RCE problem does let me continue playing, but I cannot view any of the sector maps at all. If I coax the game into letting me see what's in the sector map (by clicking on the sector map repeatedly) then after say 30 clicks the game will crash/become non-responsive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif . I'm not certain why I'm getting the RCE however, as I'm using Advanced Fission Engines which have 3 standard thrust. There are 36 of these engines on the ship:

3 X 36 = 108 total thrust (which is much below the 255 threashold)

This problem will essentially take me out of the game, as I cannot even check all my ships and planets before it crashes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Of course I cannot remove the offending ship design, because it is already created. I don't know for sure because this turn has not processesed, but I don't think that making the ship "obselete" will help -- the computer never actually deletes a ship design.

question: should we process the turn again with my offending ship "obseleted" or should we just go back a few turns and let me not make the offending ship? We also need to communicate to everyone the correct protocol when getting an RCE message while designing ships: is it good enough to just not create the design, or should they close their turn and restart?

[Fyron]

This is why we need to move the mod into Gold, and abandon the 1.49 Version. A lot of silly errors like this will disappear with the latest Gold patches.

[jimbob]

IF: PM

[pathfinder]

I agree with IF...over 700 turns in my latest endeavor in B5 Gold and not a peep out of the game. Gold is MUCH more stable. Except for PBW I have not touched 1.49 since early January.

[pathfinder]

Would ya'll mind me replacing the generic ship set with a custom set versus the compiled one we currenty have?

[Fyron]

I would not mind one bit! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Geryon]

No I wouldn't mind. What did you have in mind for a replacement?

Also is there a way to build a Jump Gate? I've been able to develop Jump Engines up to 50 Light years, but when trying to move troops 400 ly away and similar I've had problems due to lack of Jump tech.

[pathfinder]

Geryon, jumpgate (from the B5 MOD Data/components.txt file):

Name := Jump Gate I
Description := Technical components needed to constuct a Type I Jump Gate.
Pic Num := 662
Tonnage Space Taken := 4995
Tonnage Structure := 1000
Cost Minerals := 10000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 10000
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Hyperspace Technology
Family := 11769
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Jump Gate Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 2 := 10
Tech Area Req 3 := Fusion Utilization
Tech Level Req 3 := 4

Just part of the script for the jump gate but does show the tech tree http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As far as a generic shipset, deciding whether to do total scratch built or use one of my existing sets and re-texture and re-render it..

[ May 07, 2003, 23:41: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Thanks for the info. I'll experiment with my JG constructions and see if I can deploy my troops out there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What would the generic race do in the first place?

Oh and could you clarify some of this for me...What does a Stellar Manipulator Barge do? Also I noticed there's a vehiclesize to be added txt with something called a Prospector, Shuttle, Assault Shuttle and Breach Pod...are these types going to be added? I noticed they used existing bmps such as drones and colony ships, is there a reason these haven't been added to the vehiclesize.txt or they are unusable ingame?

[ May 08, 2003, 06:58: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[pathfinder]

stellar manipulator barge is a ship that use stellar manipulation tech (ie warp point closing). Not sure if that tech available in the B5 MOD (it is in unmodded SEIV). the barge(s) are neo standard pics.

the "to be added" vehicles are exactly that...not currently in-game and probably will use current ship .bmp rather some new one (ie neo standard).

as for "generic": these are used if a neutral has no shipset, eg the Yolu, Hurr, etc.

[ May 08, 2003, 12:10: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Pocus]

From what I read, the full B5 mod is for SE IV 1.49, not for the Gold ?

[Fyron]

There is a gold conVersion of the mod if you look back a page or two at Posts by Pathfinder.

[Geryon]

Ok, so are we going to use those to be added designs? Or is there a particular reason they aren't ingame yet? Because if they can be used ingame, I'm thinking of adding them to the vehiclesize.txt so that breach pods, assault shuttles, shuttles and prospectors become available. Though I confess I have no idea what a prospector does unless its mining... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I asked about the manipulator barge because it appears in my build list in the mod. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

As for the generic race, I haven't seen ship designs for either Hurr or Yolu so you can design them to your liking if you want.

[Nomor]

Geryon: I've sent you two ships for your appraisal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Historically the Hurr were occupied by the Centauri before they developed a space technology, so all their ships would be salvaged scrapped Centauri vessels, and low tech purchases from other races willing to sell, like EA or Narns. The Abbai hate them so would not deal with them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Just to mention. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

If you think PF would be interested please send them on, I don't have his email address. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ May 08, 2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Geryon]

Hi Nomor, I received the zip you sent me.

To answer your first question, my Cotton Tender bmp is different because mine shows the ship in a kinda sideways a little front angle where you can see more of the ship's hull, I also enhance my images to be a little brighter so the ship can be fully appreciated in detail...though some people don't like that I always like my ships shiny. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The second image is a smaller variant of the Kneale Freighter, which would work very well as a small transport or cargo ship, the only problem is that I don't have a model for that ship to take an overhead shot for the mini nor do I have a normal overhead shot I can use either.

To your Last question, I actually haven't met Val yet. I look forward to meeting him whenever he returns.

I hope this answers your questions.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Geryon:
Also I noticed there's a vehiclesize to be added txt with something called a Prospector, Shuttle, Assault Shuttle and Breach Pod...are these types going to be added? I noticed they used existing bmps such as drones and colony ships, is there a reason these haven't been added to the vehiclesize.txt or they are unusable ingame?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not sure what Val had in mind for these other than there is a breach pod as a component which the AI (and human players) can add to an "assult" ship for ship capture (in ship capture tech)..

Nomor: my email is: OF_pathfinder@hotmail.com

[ May 09, 2003, 00:42: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Ok, I think I'll just add those to my vehiclesize.txt so that I can have those ingame then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm also thinking of adding a scout because currently the scout and escort are the same. And it can get somewhat confusing when having both ships in the same fleet with the same bmps.

[pathfinder]

Geryon:Yeah,me using the pics you sent me of the Tethys for the escort and using the current pic as that of the scout.

[jimbob]

Well crappola! I tried running some other mods in the non-gold game and found that I get the RCE message no matter what. I guess this must mean that my Space Empires file is somehow corrupted. I can't find my SEIV disk anywhere though (I have my Gold, but that's it) so I'm not sure if I can fix the problem.

This might be lights out for Jimmy. I'll let you all know.

[jimbob]

Ahhh Hell.

I tried to do Patch 7, and it spat back that I've got the "wrong Version installed". I've had this problem before, and I guess I'll have to install from scratch = can't fix this problem.

Damn, anyone have any ideas without the CD?

[Geryon]

PF: I'm glad to hear you like the Tethys and found a place for it. I find myself not being able to play because of constantly making Last minute additions, I want to have as many different designs as possible to prevent confusion between units later ingame. I think I'm about finished with my tweaking though so I'm finally going to set the galaxy on fire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Btw, a friend of mine tells me that when playing tactical mode, he lets the comp run the battle (I know kinda contradiction to play in tactical then let the comp handle it) but he tells me that all the option buttons appear not highlighted and he can't find a way to end the battle when it drags on...any clues?

[pathfinder]

Geryon: Yeah, The diversity is why I want to make a different set for the "generics"...they currently share a lot with the LNAW if I recall correctly.

as for your friend and tactical combat....that the way it is I am afraid...

[Geryon]

Thanks for the info. Damn, you mean to tell me I'll be stuck in some battles which Last an hour due to fighters, planetary assaults, etc. Hmm, that's something they should have had an alternative to like in SW:Rebellion. You could go into Tactical mode but if the battle began to take huge amounts of time there was a button to quickly resolve it, they should have put something like that in.

Anyways, I look forward to seeing what you come up with for the generic shipset. The diversity thing is actually quite important for me, since I use the EA, that has been the race I have modified the most and included the most number of different designs, I even had to add a Light Frigate class to the vehiclesize so I could add a ship specifically to be used as an Electronics Warfare/Intelligence ship and not have to sacrifice weapons or defensive systems space in larger warships.

I had a look at the vehiclesize file in the Crossover mod...my God they have some heavy tonnage on those Star Destroyers. 5000 compared to the 1500 or so in the normal Super Dreadnought. Those things must carry enough weapons to destroy entire systems on their own. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Hmmm..there is a "resolve combat" button in tactical it can take awhile (IMHO) even with it used. I 'll check and see if one can change to while in a battle.

Un-modded SEIV you can turn "resolve combat" on after going any number of combat turns under human control but can NOT turn it back off. Not in a position currently to test in B5 MOD though it shouldn't be any didfferent.

[ May 10, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[jimbob]

Geryon: I think one of the coolest things about the cross-over mod will be the fact that different genres have different strengths and weaknesses. This is being "exploited" in Kwok's STrek mod... the largest Borg ship is something like 10 000kT in size, while the Feds are only 1 000kT, and the Ferengi are maxed out at ~800kT.

Of course, the Star Destroyers could also be viewed as carriers, and I think they currently have a pretty significant dedication to cargo components of one sort or another (in the X-over mod).

[Geryon]

I see what you mean Jimbob. Still the Omega Destroyer is larger than the Imperator SD (not to mention Sharlins, Warlocks and Poseidons), I think they need to rebalance their B5 techs at some point as well.

PF: I haven't engaged in combat yet so I'm not sure how it works I have only an idea. My friend was just somewhat frustrated that some battles had taken almost an hour long. Still by no means has this affected his addiction to the game, he's way more advanced into it than me and I had it first lol.

Btw, I got this error message constantly Last night when I ended my turn:

AI Design Creation Error:
Unknown value "Maximum Weapons Range" for Default Strategy in record "Scout"

Any ideas what's wrong and how to fix it? I'm uncertain as to what race is causing this. It always happens in race no.10 but that might be because it's the only race at the moment engaging the scout in combat I don't know. Or it might be a new race I created an emp for such as the Dilgar, Hyach, Raiders, etc. Still it doesn't mention any race specific problem but default startegy in the error message...any clues?

[pathfinder]

on your error: In-game go to upper left menu, click on the letter icon, then players. see who player 10 is. tell me and I will try and fix that line in that races files.

[ May 10, 2003, 20:00: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

The race that occurs with is the Minbari. I'm unsure if any other race has this problem so far that has been the only one but that might be because none of the others have engaged in combat yet.

Once this is fixed, I won't have to restart the game right? Thanks for the help.

[pathfinder]

Fix for the Minbari (Geryon):

1052605352.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052605352.zip)

I am not having that error in my B5 gold game, so your Minbari_AI_designcreation.txt file must be corrupted.

So these are the ones I am currently using.

I'd go ahead and also replace the Minbari_AI_strategies.txt file just to be sure.

[ May 10, 2003, 23:26: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Double post sorry!

[ May 10, 2003, 23:41: Message edited by: Geryon ]

[Geryon]

That's odd, I compared the scout portion in the desingcreation in the file you just handed to me and my old one and the settings are identical. I'm not sure what could be causing this problem but I appreciate the help anyways and will replace my old one with this one as well as the startegies.
I hope the problem hasn't anything to do with the new Light Frigate class I added but I doubt it since it specifically mentioned the Scout and the Light Frigate isn't a starting unit.

Thanks for the help. Can I add these files and continue the game from my Last save or do I have to start over?

[pathfinder]

You should be able to continue with the game.

and odd yes, unless the light frigate is out of place (my guess it's data should be between the frigate and escort).

[Geryon]

Actually I placed the Light Frigate between Frigate and Corvette. I'll give it a run and see if the problem persists, still there shouldn't be any conflict with the Light Frigate and the error named the scout in particular.

Thanks again.

[pathfinder]

Geryon: You're right. me just grasping at straws.

[pathfinder]

Geryon: On the Minbari error; maybe re-do the .emp file? This was solution presented in another thread for a similar problem.

If this is done then a new game would have to be started IIRC.

[ May 11, 2003, 14:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Geryon]

Strangely enough the files you sent me fixed the problem so there you go, I guess you grasped the right straws http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Been playing now for a bit and good lord does research take a long time to complete. Still, having a lot of fun seeing the universe cave in on itself with Centauri/Dilgar exapansions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Hehe, EVERYTHING takes awhile (compared to "normal" SEIV) due to B5 following the "proportions" model. But I kinda like the slower pace at times.

[ May 11, 2003, 22:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]