Babylon 5 Mod [Archive] - Page 17

The One

May 1st, 2004, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by grumbler:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The One:
Thanks, I checked the Brakiri folder out and the spelling, picture files and made sure the spelling was correct and still getting this error when I click on "end turn", now what do I do? It would help to know which file was not found (if the message tells you that). Because it is an end-of-turn file I kinda suspect it isn't a brakiri file at all, but rather a file in the next race in the turn sequence.

Make sure you have all the default AI files. Those are the ones accessed at the beginning of a race's turn. <hr /></blockquote>I was having no luck with what I was trying, so I tried one more thing before giving up and that was to unistall the game, reinstall it then the patch, then the mods and tried one more time and this seems to have fixed it.
I was noticing also before I uninstalled, then reinstalled that when I would click on the game icon itself not the one to play the mod, that I was getting the B5 mod screen, weird. Anyway it all works fine now, but I would like to know what could have caused this, thanks.
Also, the error did not say anything other than "file not found" nothing else.

[ May 01, 2004, 04:43: Message edited by: The One ]

Timstone

May 1st, 2004, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Timstone:
...The Mod again. Work, work, work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif That wouldn't be a reference from an episode of Firefly would it Timstone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>Huh? Please explain, I really don't get it.
Me stupid because I had a bit too much beer... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Edit: Thanks Grumbler for the link to the JMS site. I try to keep up with the news, but I forgot (like so many things).

[ May 01, 2004, 16:39: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Raging Deadstar

May 1st, 2004, 06:24 PM

Firefly is an incredible sci-fi series, you might have seen it. Theres a hilarious line where the pilot has just escaped some evil space pirate things (called reavers) and the following goes...

"Zoe: Captain, I'd like you to take the helm, please. I need this man [Wash] to tear all my clothes off."
"Wash: Work, work, work..."

Also, this mod is looking good (not trying to hijack this thread here you see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) My friend just recently bought Space Empires and is rather impressed by this mod. Keep up the good work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 01, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: Raging Deadstar ]

Atrocities

May 1st, 2004, 07:43 PM

Ah fire fly was a good series. To bad it went no where. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

pathfinder

May 4th, 2004, 01:28 AM

Lighthorse: Something your way comes (provided I don't forget to mail it tommorow).

Timstone

May 4th, 2004, 08:07 AM

RD:
Aha, now I understand.

All:
Stupid modem! Okay, first I got hit with some strange virus thingie and now this modem stuff.
After I formatted my HD to clear this very nasty virus I had to change my modem because of a diffirent subscription. And bureaucraty isn't working for me, but against me.
I won't be much Online for the comming month.
I HATE SERVERCORP.!!!! (check out the comic from Stile).

Till soon!

P.S. If you didn't understand my Last remark about the comic, don't mind. It's not important.

narf poit chez BOOM

May 4th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by Timstone:
I won't be much Online for the comming month.
I HATE SERVERCORP.!!!! (check out the comic from Stile).

Till soon!

P.S. If you didn't understand my Last remark about the comic, don't mind. It's not important. Comic? Is it a webcomic?

Timstone

May 4th, 2004, 08:17 AM

Yup. But it's a bit... ehh... strange.
Also I've been given a serious warning for posting the link to it on another forum.
The site is FULL, absolutely FULL with porn. And somewhere carefully hidden away is the link to the comic. I would like to post it here, but you all must promise not to complain about the site.
It's not worth another warning.

Atrocities

May 4th, 2004, 08:17 AM

Please do not take this the wrong way but by the time this mod is done we will all be calling it the Babylon 500 mod.

To be honest I think developing this mod has taken longer than it took to build Babylon 5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Atrocities

May 4th, 2004, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Timstone:
Yup. But it's a bit... ehh... strange.
Also I've been given a serious warning for posting the link to it on another forum.
The site is FULL, absolutely FULL with porn. And somewhere carefully hidden away is the link to the comic. I would like to post it here, but you all must promise not to complain about the site.
It's not worth another warning. Perhaps it is better to just email the link to those who want it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Timstone

May 4th, 2004, 08:24 AM

Whatever you want AT.

Edit:
AT:
The building of B5 was a minor occurence, the conVersion to the gaming world was an epic undertaking not to be taken lightly. The pressure on or shoulders is imense. Now go wash your mouth, you infidel! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Narf:
Link coming your way.

[ May 04, 2004, 07:26: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Moonsword

May 4th, 2004, 10:08 PM

I'm interested in doing some work with this mod. I can playtest, but I also would like to work on editing text descriptions, adding them where necessary, that sort of thing. Would this be of use?

gregebowman

May 4th, 2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by grumbler:
BTW, for those of you who are still following this, JMS has pretty much confirmed that the "new B5 project" is a theatrical movie. At JMS News (http://www.jmsnews.com/scripts/MsgStore.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetMsg&List=1&Topic=0&Flags=0&Query=BrowseCmd&QFlags=0&ls=0&qs=0&qt=0) you will find a post with this tell-tale (and typically JMS) remark: <blockquote>quote:<hr />Soon, I promise, all will be made clear. I don't like being Mr. Mysterioso on this, but if I say too much, the-powers-that-be will use my head to make a 2.35:1 sized hole in the wall. 2.35:1 is the aspect ratio of widescreen movie projections (and of no regular TV projections).

This follows news that Boxleitner, Doyle, Tallman, and Biggs (all of the scheduled B5 major stars) have cancelled their convention appearances this summer for "work-related reasons."

Release date is probably two years off, but this is still good news (and there is more good news in the post referenced). <hr /></blockquote>That's good news. I'd love to see a B5 movie with the cast from the original show. I haven't seen too many of the off-shoots. Can't wait to see the B5 show on a big screen.

Lighthorse

May 5th, 2004, 04:28 AM

Pathfinders,

Thanks for all your effort.
Have not received yet. Had my computer down most of the day, protecting it from the new virus worm/Sasser.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

pathfinder

May 5th, 2004, 05:47 AM

Lighthorse: I just mailed the cd today so it will be 3-5 days before you get it.

[ May 05, 2004, 04:48: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Atrocities

May 5th, 2004, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Timstone:
Whatever you want AT.

If I anger you then you take the internet far too seriously. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lighthorse

May 6th, 2004, 03:46 AM

Pathfinder,

I in your debt.
Maybe when I start a Babylon 5 game on the PBW, would you be interested in playing either the Vorlon or Shadows.
Second choice should go to Atrocities.

I'm getting ahead of myself. First thing is to upload Babylon 5 gold onto PBW.

My Thanks Again, Pathfinder.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

pathfinder

May 6th, 2004, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
Pathfinder,

I in your debt.
Maybe when I start a Babylon 5 game on the PBW, would you be interested in playing either the Vorlon or Shadows.
Second choice should go to Atrocities.

I'm getting ahead of myself. First thing is to upload Babylon 5 gold onto PBW.

My Thanks Again, Pathfinder.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif You got it already?!

Lighthorse

May 6th, 2004, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Pathfinder
You got it already?!

No, the USPS isn't that fast.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

pathfinder

May 6th, 2004, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
Originally posted by Pathfinder
You got it already?!

No, the USPS isn't that fast.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif I didn't think so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

May 6th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Moonsword:
Uhm, did you guys miss my message a few Posts back? I'm not trying to be annoying, and I don't mind a negative response.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Moonsword:
I'm interested in doing some work with this mod. I can playtest, but I also would like to work on editing text descriptions, adding them where necessary, that sort of thing. Would this be of use? <hr /></blockquote>Well, basically the "original" which I am working is done (or at least my involvement is). Once it gets a "home" you are most welcome to do whatever....

grumbler

May 7th, 2004, 01:02 AM

Moonsword,

Right now Version 2.0 isn't ready for playtesting, and Version 1.0 (Path improved) isn't available for downloading.

Do you have the "Lastest" Version of the Val mod? If you want to go into that and provide weapons descriptions where they are missing, and maybe shorten/modify those that exist and are too lengthy, go for it. Most of the weapons in that Version will probably resurface in one form or another in Version 2.0. You probably need the B5 tech manual/disk or the B5Wars books, though, as the show doesn't really address weapons.

Timstone

May 7th, 2004, 01:14 AM

AT:
No, I didn't take it too serious. I just did what you requested, that's all.

Everyone:
I won't be Online much this coming month. Stupid new modem stuff. Grr... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Moonsword

May 7th, 2004, 01:54 AM

Uhm, did you guys miss my message a few Posts back? I'm not trying to be annoying, and I don't mind a negative response.

Originally posted by Moonsword:
I'm interested in doing some work with this mod. I can playtest, but I also would like to work on editing text descriptions, adding them where necessary, that sort of thing. Would this be of use?

Moonsword

May 7th, 2004, 10:05 PM

Only thing I have access to is the stuff Online. As for the mod, I've got the Version here. Never mind then.

Nomor

May 8th, 2004, 07:28 PM

I've finally made the move to Gold and am now trying to familiarize myself with all that I've forgotten about modding.

I find I'm unhappy with the way we've implemented the Repair Tugs and thrown the Maintenance Bots out with the bathwater.

I would like to change one aspect of the "Repair Tug" and incorporate the Maint Bot with it.

Currently the Maint Bot can only be used on Bases . This I think is losing one of the best components in the game and a link to the actual B5 series.

Maintenance Bots should be able to fit on Bases and Ships. The larger capital ships of Earth Force had Maint Bots flying abound them, but then they all had fighter bays.

Val wanted to restrict the function of Repair Tugs so that they were essentially non combative vehicles. He did this by building the repair function into the Ship Design and then loading the Life Support and Crew Quarter requirements to stop you using the design for other purposes.

However this was a first run solution to the problem and resulted in the Maint Bots being unrealistically restricted to bases. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

It is possible to create the same effect and bring the repair bots back into the game.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Make the Small Repair Tug have an inbuilt ability of repair 1 x component.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Require it to have at least 1 x Maint Bot

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Require Maint Bot to only function/ fit on any Ship/Base that has either a Fighter launch bay or Satellite launch bay.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We can now reduce the Life Support and Crew Quarter requirements for the Repair Tugs.

It is important to keep the inherent ability of the Repair Tug to repair at least one component in it's Design. This allows it to navigate bad worm holes and still be able to repair itself and at the same time maintain it's unique function in the game. i.e. The only vehicle that has a reasonable chance of rescuing stricken ships in Black Hole systems without destroying its self in the attempt.

This would then allow us to put Maintenance Bots on any of the other Capital Ships that had Launch Bays. After all a Carrier Ship that can launch fighters should be able to launch Maint Bots and you would expect it to be able to repair itself.

It's now up to the player to decide how much space he gives up to repair Capital Ships. M.Bot: 50kT + L.Bay:24kT or Sat. L.Bay:30kT , which means that the basic Maint Bot requires 74kT minimum to fit onto a ship. If we make it use supplies as well then that would stop them being placed of every vessel.

The Repair Tug still maintains its usefulness because unlike other large ships if the onboard Maint Bot is damaged the Tug can repair it whereas other capital ships that suffer loss of the Maint Bot have to seek repairs else where.

Well ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ May 08, 2004, 18:42: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 8th, 2004, 07:52 PM

Nomor: Only idea/concept I have a problem with is number three [Require Maint Bot to only function/ fit on any Ship/Base that has either a Fighter launch bay or Satellite launch bay] and only on HOW in this game it could be done.

Nomor

May 8th, 2004, 08:08 PM

PF: If it is not possible to link the Maintenance Bot to there being a Launch Bay could we not perhaps cheat and just require the Repair Tug to have a Launch Bay and/or require certain Classes of Capital Ships to have at least one Launch Bay even if they didn't carry fighters or use it. Then the cargo space could be used for anything such as people/troops albeit at a small level.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Or would it work if the Maint Bot became a type of Satellite or Drone

I thought it was possible to create restrictions or requirement for components, which I assume is what the Maint Bot is at present. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Or simply add a description to the Maint Bot to say "Due to the requirement of Launch facilities MB's are restricted to specialist vessels and certain Classes of Capital Ships".

Any Ship Design below a Certain agreed kT could just then have a restriction placed upon it: Maint Bot not allowed.

This is our Mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif "It is now going dark and the weather is cold and overcast." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ May 08, 2004, 19:37: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 8th, 2004, 08:21 PM

The cap ships currently DO have a fighter bay requirement. As for the maintenance bot "abilities", I'll have to check and see.

grumbler

May 8th, 2004, 10:34 PM

Two thoughts:
1. Rather than being concerned to ensure that repair tugs can fulfill the unique mission of black hole rescue, why not eliminate the black hole sectors? This is what I have done with Version 2.0 anyway, as the AI simply cannot handle black holes with early colonizers (speed 2) and just keeps sending them into the black hole sector. Black hole systems aren't part of the B5 universe anyway.

2. You can restict maint bots to larger ships (if you really want to) simply by making them too big to fit on smaller ships and then creating a mount that reduces them back to the "right size" that can only fit on ships above your threshold size.

As an aside, I currently have a self-repair capability in the "unique ship type" hulls that can only be acquired via ruins plus research, but other than that don't have shipboard repair.

Nomor

May 9th, 2004, 07:48 PM

So we've lost Black Holes, we've also lost Nebulae Systems in all but name because it was incompatible with the Reactor supply system we adopted for the Mod. We ended up putting Invisible Suns in them so that Reactors would work in them, because it was argued that Reactors would not be affected by the absence of a Sun.

Could we not have just added a description line to the Nebulae System that read : http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The nature of Nebulae Systems results in Reactor Shut Down due to Containment Destabilisation. and http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Do not enter without good supply reserves. .. or something like that and then left them to function as per the Basic Game.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Nebulae System are not the Hazard they should have been and the Strategic Element they provided has diminished. Losing Black Holes is again disrupting the Strategy of the game.

I would have thought that the AI would have had the ability to not send ships with a movement of 2 or less though a system identified as a Black Hole. If the AI struggles to respond to such programming would it not have been better to simply increase the speed of Colony Ships to 3 .

Then the lucky ones that got through unstable worm holes or jump gates would still pass through the system. Only those unlucky to suffer damage would be lost.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The Strategy of the game will likely end up being who can race up the technology tree and make the most ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 09, 2004, 19:02: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Ragnarok-X

May 9th, 2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Nomor:

The Strategy of the game will likely end up being who can race up the technology tree and make the most ships.that, or who can get the faster engines to negate the effect.

pathfinder

May 9th, 2004, 09:03 PM

Nomor: I ain't smart to enuf to figger out those speeds. *shrug*

Nomor

May 9th, 2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Nomor: I ain't smart to enuf to figger out those speeds. *shrug* Me neither. The original SEIV game if I remember correctly never produced ships that were too slow to navigate Black Hole systems so passage through them came down to whether or not you took damage entering them.

I image the AI therefore does not allow for speed restrictions for avoiding Black Hole systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif However the game does allow for the Live player to avoid certain marked systems for whatever reason, so it may be buried in the programming somewhere. Just not my area as of yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

So maybe the solution is to just program for faster engines or as mentioned make the starting point for Colony Ships a movement speed of 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif This could be offset by making the population carrying starting point as lower.

[ May 09, 2004, 22:03: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 9th, 2004, 11:44 PM

One would have to totaly re-do the engines in order to do that. NOT my cup of tea thank you. All I ever set out to do was to make this Gold compatible and make the full tech game do-able, That I have done. "Finished" MOD was mailed to Lighthorse (and received), so once he can get it up on PBW....

[ May 09, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Nomor

May 10th, 2004, 12:20 AM

There was a time when I was happy to just replace the original game aliens with B5 shipsets and leave the original AI and tech tree as it was.
Then I met Val Cassotta. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Time for a cupatea.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

May 10th, 2004, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by Nomor:
There was a time when I was happy to just replace the original game aliens with B5 shipsets and leave the original AI and tech tree as it was.
Then I met Val Cassotta. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Time for a cupatea.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Enjoy that tea sir!

MOD became work instead of fun, so me just going on. Let someone with enthusiasm finish it if they want.

Fyron

May 10th, 2004, 02:28 AM

You can easily get past the slow colony ship problem by decreasing their Engines Per Move value by a few points (relative to how big the number currently is, of course). They will then go faster with the same number of engines, with no need at all to modify the engines themselves. Also, no need to modify AI ship design files either.

grumbler

May 10th, 2004, 03:12 AM

Some black holes have a gravity of three, so just increasing colony ships to three doesn't work. You'd have to increase it to four, and then they are the same speed as every other ship. Actually you could just increase the hull size by one or two engines-worth and keep the same engines per move (since it is the lack of space after required components that keeps them slow).

I must admit that I never saw Black Holes as being a vital component of SE IV play, but if you want to have the real equivelent then get rid of them and increase the chances of getting one of the Hyperspace sectors that cause damage. That's not B5 canon either, but at least it is closer than "black hole" systems. Whether you made it out of the hyperspace sector without critical damage is a matter of luck.

Nomor

May 10th, 2004, 10:05 PM

That sounds fine although I've yet to come across a hyperspace system in any game I've played. I'd love to see how they work.
My point was that although some people found Black Holes costly for ship loses and Nebulae for slow movement, they did provide variations to the Strategic play.

If you found your home planet boarded either of these systems they did provide a defence advantage that could be exploited. If you were playing a nomadic race you could hang around these systems picking off the damaged ships or charging into a nebular with full supplies and whacking some other race at the end of it's move with all it's supplies exhausted.

It may have been that PBW was such a slow process that the patience to see these as an advantage to be exploited and follow the chain
of command.... oops got lost there..

Whilst Black Holes and Nebulae are not part of the B5 series that is not a problem for me because both exist, and JMS simply did not have a plot line that used them, or so he says.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ............................ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Sorry, I meant to ask is there a Shipset for the Abbai, Hurr, Gaim. I seem to have only a generic one but thought someone had done them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ May 10, 2004, 22:42: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Lighthorse

May 11th, 2004, 02:32 AM

Orginally posted by pathfinder
One would have to totaly re-do the engines in order to do that. NOT my cup of tea thank you. All I ever set out to do was to make this Gold compatible and make the full tech game do-able, That I have done. "Finished" MOD was mailed to Lighthorse (and received), so once he can get it up on PBW....

Run into a small problem with posting Babylon 5 mod on the PBW servicer. The max allowable file is 10 MB, B5 mod zipped is over 70 MB. Still discussing possible solutions with PBW, but I'm not hopefully.
Rambie just informed me today that he plans to redesign his Babylon 5 SE4 website and if I mail the CD he will have it available for downloading. I shall be snail mailing the CD tomorrow.
Heres Rambie's email to me
I can host the files on my site, I need to update the site anyway.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 11th, 2004, 02:45 AM

Hey, me too.
Just send the files to ftp://imagemodserver.mine.nu/uploads

and I'll get it posted under the MM/SE4/mods

PS:
if you can RAR it with "solid archive" and max compression enabled, it will help a lot with that size.

Atrocities

May 11th, 2004, 03:35 AM

If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Atrocities

May 11th, 2004, 03:42 AM

http://www.astmod.com/nasy/b5/Shad1.PNG http://www.astmod.com/nasy/b5/Shad1m.PNG

These are really old images. I could not get them to look right so I gave up.

pathfinder

May 11th, 2004, 11:09 AM

Nomor: I did a complete set for the Abbai, most (complete ?) of set for the Gaim and a partial for the Hurr.

pathfinder

May 11th, 2004, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Hey, me too.
Just send the files to ftp://imagemodserver.mine.nu/uploads

and I'll get it posted under the MM/SE4/mods

PS:
if you can RAR it with "solid archive" and max compression enabled, it will help a lot with that size. What I sent Lighthorse is a WinRar self-extracting .exe on CD. So, the compressed file is ~ 70 MB.

[ May 11, 2004, 10:19: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

May 11th, 2004, 12:05 PM

Wow, are you using the solid archive option when you get that 70megs?

In any event, if you can upload at a decent rate, I'll be able to pull it down as fast as you can push it up.

Ragnarok-X

May 11th, 2004, 04:08 PM

Someone has to do a Vree shipset !!!

Nomor

May 11th, 2004, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Nomor: I did a complete set for the Abbai, most (complete ?) of set for the Gaim and a partial for the Hurr. That's what I remembered seeing a while back, bur did you ever post them anywhere?

I've had problems with the Cascor and one or two of the other races including the Abbai appearing in the Quick Start game with the wrong race portraits. This was down to the fact that there was no RaceName_Main.bmp in their respective folders.

I have found and made a Cascor_Race_Portrait.bmp , has a nice furry face, but is not a genuine Cascor. He is an alien from the Crusade Series. If I can find the link I'll edit it in so you can all decide if it's suitable. Here it is: Kulan for Cascor?

http://b5ccg.mahasamatman.com/Crusade/Gallery/?082 Well it's what I'm using untill you find the "real thing".

I've also tidied up the Cascor description as it was broken up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have been filling in the descriptions for some of the facilities such as Military Outpost and others, just so you don't duplicate the work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

When I've done enough I'll send it in.

[ May 11, 2004, 19:21: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 11th, 2004, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Wow, are you using the solid archive option when you get that 70megs?

In any event, if you can upload at a decent rate, I'll be able to pull it down as fast as you can push it up. Not sure what my upload speed is but I do have "regular" (non-business) cable via Comcast. That fast enough?

Also note that this is an absolutely standalone MOD so it includes the entire image MOD. I did this because there always seemed to be several images missing. That may not be the case these days.

[ May 11, 2004, 20:08: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 11th, 2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Nomor:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pathfinder:
Nomor: I did a complete set for the Abbai, most (complete ?) of set for the Gaim and a partial for the Hurr. That's what I remembered seeing a while back, bur did you ever post them anywhere?

I've had problems with the Cascor and one or two of the other races including the Abbai appearing in the Quick Start game with the wrong race portraits. This was down to the fact that there was no RaceName_Main.bmp in their respective folders.

I have found and made a Cascor_Race_Portrait.bmp , has a nice furry face, but is not a genuine Cascor. He is an alien from the Crusade Series. If I can find the link I'll edit it in so you can all decide if it's suitable. Here it is: Kulan for Cascor?

http://b5ccg.mahasamatman.com/Crusade/Gallery/?082 Well it's what I'm using untill you find the "real thing".

I've also tidied up the Cascor description as it was broken up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I have been filling in the descriptions for some of the facilities such as Military Outpost and others, just so you don't duplicate the work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

When I've done enough I'll send it in. <hr /></blockquote>I don't remember if I posted them Nomor (Gaim, Abbai, Hurr). Ok by me if you use the Kulan for Cascor. I used some pics of the Mole people in my Version. Not Cascor there either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Some of the race stuff can be found around this page of Posts in the MOD forum:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3

AI files (if not in the folders metioned above) can be found in page 7 this thread.

[ May 11, 2004, 20:25: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

May 11th, 2004, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Wow, are you using the solid archive option when you get that 70megs?

In any event, if you can upload at a decent rate, I'll be able to pull it down as fast as you can push it up. Not sure what my upload speed is but I do have "regular" (non-business) cable via Comcast. That fast enough?

Also note that this is an absolutely standalone MOD so it includes the entire image MOD. I did this because there always seemed to be several images missing. That may not be the case these days. <hr /></blockquote>Dosen't matter to me how fast it is... I won't notice the download bandwidth being used. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you have the patience to let it grind away uploading while you eat dinner or sleep, send it along.

The imagemod is probably taking up at least 25 megs of that...
If there are missing images, just keep bugging me till they're in.
...
But at least with you sending the whole thing now, I'll be able to easily add any missing ones.

pathfinder

May 11th, 2004, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Someone has to do a Vree shipset !!! In the MOD I am trying to "release" I have added a number of ships to the existing Vree set. Still isn't complete but...

Nomor

May 12th, 2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Nomor: I did a complete set for the Abbai, most (complete ?) of set for the Gaim and a partial for the Hurr. Followed your link and have downloaded several files. Thanks. Not found the Hurr yet.

I take it that most of these Race files were not incorporated into the two B5 Gold files namely B5GoldMain and the Gold AI file? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Hey... Did someone say Timstone was Dutch? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

pathfinder

May 12th, 2004, 12:04 AM

pathfinder

May 12th, 2004, 12:06 AM

Fyron

May 12th, 2004, 12:19 AM

Don't believe those timers on file transfers... they are nearly always wrong...

Suicide Junkie

May 12th, 2004, 05:26 AM

73,792,512 bytes, and it seems to be extracting ok so far.

I'll get it posted in the morning... its too late right now, and I don't want to cause any more problems than nessesary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'll repackage it a few ways and make sure the imagemod is updated...
When it arrives, it will all be under
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/mods

[ May 12, 2004, 04:30: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Suicide Junkie

May 12th, 2004, 08:21 PM

I've got them posted now.
Zip of 50 Megs, and an self-extracting RAR of 35 Megs.

----

PS:
As for imagemod compatibility, you only had the Last 7 facility pics ... which were not actually used in the mod.

Let me know what credits they need, and I'll add them in the next Version

[ May 12, 2004, 19:46: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

pathfinder

May 13th, 2004, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I've got them posted now.
Zip of 50 Megs, and an self-extracting RAR of 35 Megs.

----

PS:
As for imagemod compatibility, you only had the Last 7 facility pics ... which were not actually used in the mod.

Let me know what credits they need, and I'll add them in the next Version Not sure on the facilities. I gues Val either made them or found them on the WEB.

grumbler

May 13th, 2004, 02:13 AM

A status update on Version 2.0 (such as it is).

Facilities, Vehicles, pretty much all of the componets bar weapons, and the Ai files seem to be good. I have a game running as the Minbari and after 220 turns am still in 7th place out of 18 races (computer players have medium bonuses). That's about what I would hope, given that I'm not trying all that hard to win, and the AI cannot shift around populations.

However, the computer AI for all the players except the LNAW seem to be building 80% of their attack ships as scouts. There are a few exceorts, destroyers, and light cruisers, but all of the battleship and larger sizes are "specialized" ships like troop transports, ship-based shipyards, and the like.

There is nothing in the AI files that is obviously driving them in this direction, and they are designing all of the attack ship classes they should be, but they are not building them. Is there something really obvious that I am missing (like having the planet per ship setting too low)?

I had a thought on satellites: maybe we need to deny satellites the ability to "armor up" in order to restore them to balance. They will still wax a lot of ships, but will be eggs armed with sledgehammers - kinda what we saw in Endgame. Any thoughts on this approach?

Also, does anyone else think armor is a bit too weakwhen placed on ships? It doesn't seem to make that much difference in the simulator runs I conduct - either it is too leaky or else it just doesn't absorb enough damage. I dunno enough about how it works to make any final judgements, though.

Suicide Junkie

May 13th, 2004, 02:22 AM

Re: Sats
It might be nice to change sats into tiny, maintenance free bases.
They'll spread around the planet/sector for better coverage, plus the dispersed fire should make them less overpowering than 80 guns in one square.

As for armor...
How much are you adding?
Try comparing ships with 10%, 20%, 35% and 50% armor by mass.
In fleets, too.

grumbler

May 13th, 2004, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Nomor:
That sounds fine although I've yet to come across a hyperspace system in any game I've played. I'd love to see how they work.
My point was that although some people found Black Holes costly for ship loses and Nebulae for slow movement, they did provide variations to the Strategic play.

If you found your home planet boarded either of these systems they did provide a defence advantage that could be exploited. If you were playing a nomadic race you could hang around these systems picking off the damaged ships or charging into a nebular with full supplies and whacking some other race at the end of it's move with all it's supplies exhausted.

It may have been that PBW was such a slow process that the patience to see these as an advantage to be exploited and follow the chain
of command.... oops got lost there..

Whilst Black Holes and Nebulae are not part of the B5 series that is not a problem for me because both exist, and JMS simply did not have a plot line that used them, or so he says.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif ..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ............................ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Just saw this. Version 2.0 has plenty of hyperspace systems. I haven't played the stock mod in a year so i cannot remember why it wouldn't have them. They aren't that significant in strategic play, except to balance out the greater probability of earthlike planets in the non-hyperspace systems. The ship-damaging hyperspace systems may not have been fully implemented. In any case, they kinda serve as the deterrent systems you are looking for, because ships will have a very difficult time geting through them without losing components, and ractors seem to be the first thing to go, so maybe they will have the effect you are looking for.

If we give nomadic races alone the capability for onboard repair, then you will have the effect you want, with crippled non-nomad ships (no supplies) being relatively easy meat for the raiders. As races acquire the self-repairing "unique ship" capabilities, this advantage will diminish.

Does that sound about right from a player perspective?

grumbler

May 13th, 2004, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Re: Sats
It might be nice to change sats into tiny, maintenance free bases.
They'll spread around the planet/sector for better coverage, plus the dispersed fire should make them less overpowering than 80 guns in one square.Doh! That is exactly the kind of thing I should be looking at! Maybe we just create small bases that represent, say, 10 satellites each and as you say they will be spread out (the one thing I wish had been added to SE4 as is). This might make management a bit tough, and I don't know if the AI won't just put all its "satellites" around homeworld (as it does for bases at present) but I will look into this solution.

grumbler

May 13th, 2004, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
As for armor...
How much are you adding?
Try comparing ships with 10%, 20%, 35% and 50% armor by mass.
In fleets, too. I have been experimenting with 10 v 10 ship engagements, with between 20% and 40% armor, and extra firepower seems to overcome extra armor. This is all at full tech levels. There may be a breakpoint at lower tech levels, but armor is so much harder to research than weapons that I doubt it. Note that this is all inert armor - I haven't started looking at reactive armors.

Suicide Junkie

May 13th, 2004, 02:44 AM

Hmm... Are you using ancient weapons, or normal race guns?

Also, Light or Heavy armor?
Heavy armor would be better for small skirmishes between normal races, but when fleets & firepower get big enough to kill ships in one or two rounds, Light works better.

-----

Hmm, perhaps the inert armors should be researched in the reverse order... heavy then light as tech increases (and more colonies mean increasing fleet size)

[ May 13, 2004, 01:48: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Nomor

May 13th, 2004, 07:46 PM

Oh pooh....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ May 13, 2004, 18:58: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

May 13th, 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
I've got them posted now.
Zip of 50 Megs, and an self-extracting RAR of 35 Megs.

----

PS:
As for imagemod compatibility, you only had the Last 7 facility pics ... which were not actually used in the mod.

Let me know what credits they need, and I'll add them in the next Version Not sure on the facilities. I gues Val either made them or found them on the WEB. <hr /></blockquote>I sent those facilities to Val. I have some more that are Narn and Centauri specific. There are also a few Minbari. I intended to add some descriptions to these as to what they might be used for. They are all from the Babylon 5 and Crusade series, taken from the B5 Cards and some from screen captures. Nearly all were sourced from the web, though some are now extinct.

If Val had still been active they might have appeared as Race specific Facilities. As soon as I've cobbled together the others I was going to submit them to the SEIV imagemod as many are suitable for the current Gold 2 mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
OK I have a RAR file to unload,1.46Mb, how do I do it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif I'm being dumped out, message saying make sure you are authorised to blah.. blah

[ May 14, 2004, 22:59: Message edited by: Nomor ]

grumbler

May 15th, 2004, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Hmm... Are you using ancient weapons, or normal race guns?Purely normal race weapons. I haven't even started to muck with the ancients - they have to relate to the normals, and so until the normals are "known" the ancients cannot be.

Also, Light or Heavy armor?
Heavy armor would be better for small skirmishes between normal races, but when fleets & firepower get big enough to kill ships in one or two rounds, Light works better.50% mix of medium and heavy.

Hmm, perhaps the inert armors should be researched in the reverse order... heavy then light as tech increases (and more colonies mean increasing fleet size) Light armor gets too expensive, I have found, and the "leakiness' of it seems excessive based on wholly inadequate testing (which is to say that I stopped even employing them pretty early). Actually, one-ton components get really unwieldy on larrge ships. Can we re-think the idea of one-ton components except as fillers?

astruskustuvas

May 15th, 2004, 08:46 AM

this armor thing is realy buged 1 shot from neutron cannon X kills all my turets.
And some technological things are missing like: vorlon\shadows bioarmor, vorlon shields and many more.
oh and limit ship sizes for lesser races to baseship bcuz they had no planet killers or super base ships.
and ship size dependant on racial trait would be cool( EA have only like 7 types of ships, Minbaris have 2, shadows have 3 Battlecrab types)

I could fix this myself but i have no skills at moding, but i have many great ideas and can share them with you.
Write me if you are interested-razor@post.m-1.lt

and realy sorry guys for my english typo:)

Lighthorse

May 15th, 2004, 06:32 PM

Bug report

I notice that the Plasma Tor level 1 and 2, seeker speed was zero. That not very fast is it.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

pathfinder

May 15th, 2004, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
Bug report

I notice that the Plasma Tor level 1 and 2, seeker speed was zero. That not very fast is it.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif Uhm....not just level 1 and 2....eeepppp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 15th, 2004, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Nomor:
ftp://imagemodserver.mine.nu/uploads
Upload link gives me a FTP Folder Error:-

Windows cannot access the folder. Make sure you typed the file name correctely and that you have permission to access the folder.
Details:
The opperator timed out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

None of this makes any sense to me.... help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Can I not just attach the file to an email and send to the interested party? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif What are you trying to upload now?

I don't usually have the FTP server turned on unless I'm expecting an upload.

Nomor

May 16th, 2004, 01:22 AM

ftp://imagemodserver.mine.nu/uploads
Upload link gives me a FTP Folder Error:-

Windows cannot access the folder. Make sure you typed the file name correctely and that you have permission to access the folder.
Details:
The opperator timed out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

None of this makes any sense to me.... help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Can I not just attach the file to an email and send to the interested party? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 15, 2004, 12:35: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

May 16th, 2004, 06:14 AM

Suicide Junkie:
QUOTE:What are you trying to upload now?

Sorry... I've got the rest of the Facility bmp's organised in a rar file with a txt file on their origin. All are B5 related and might serve in the current gold mod. For consideration for the SE4 Image ModPack. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I've also just completed adding descriptions to the Facilities.txt file starting from the top and ending 2/3 down. So we now know what all the abilities for each facility are. From PF's latest Gold Mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The latter needs testing to see if it meets everyone's approval. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

However I missed out explaining the following because I don't know what they do, or how, although some do seem self exlanatory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Unknown Abilities:
Ability 7 Type := Quantum Reactor
Ability 6 Type := Mine Sweeping
Ability 9 Type := Destroy Black Hole
Ability 6 Type := Stop Black Hole Creator
Ability 3 Type := Ship Life Support

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ May 16, 2004, 06:25: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Lighthorse

May 16th, 2004, 07:43 AM

Good news, Rambie web site has Babylon 5 v1.8 available for download.
http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Alneyan

May 16th, 2004, 10:58 AM

The Quantum Reactor ability resupplies all ships in the fleet at the end of the turn (and the ship having this ability will not run out of supplies, except perhaps if it cannot store any supply) It is used for ships, unlike the "Resupply all ships in sector", used for facilities.

The Minesweeping ability allows this component to sweep X mines, where X should be the number of mines per sector.

The Destroy Black Hole ability is used to destroy a Star and make a Black Hole in its stead, while the Stop Black Hole Creator prevents this component working in the system it is located. (The System Gravitational Shield thingie has this ability in the vanilla game, along with the other "Stop [a Stellar Manipulation component] from working")

And Lastly, a Life Support ability is needed if the ship requires Life Supports. Having no such component when the ship requires them slow down your ship by a certain factor. (You lose 2/3 of your speed or something along these lines, as I don't quite recall the figure for this one. But when all your Life Supports are gone, your ship should have more pressing concerns than speed I guess.)

Nomor

May 17th, 2004, 01:08 AM

Alneyan: Thanks for that. These abilities were all in the Facilities file, so the Quantum Reactor seemed a bit redundant.

How do you explain a Minesweeping ability for a Facility? : Has little bitty mini mine clearing drones that patrol for mines.

Stop Black Hole Creator: Ok I get that but trying to justify how a facility has this ability is the problem.

And Lastly, a Life Support ability , Ok this means that a ship entering the system with this Facility inside suddenly loses all speed restriction it had as a result of being low on Life Support. How would that be explained. Perhaps these are best left as hidden talents.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

grumbler

May 17th, 2004, 01:21 AM

Nomor,

These are "dummy abilities" that force the AI to build specific facilities on a planet, as opposed to the "generic abilities" like "SpaceYard" that would never have the AI building Manufacturing facilities because there is a facility with greater spaceyeard capabilities (namely, the spaceyard itself). They are used only to link a specific facility type to a specific planet type, they mean nothing in and of themselves. They are needed because in this mod facilities have far more abilities than in the basic game.

For instance, "Quantum Reactor" is used as a tag so we can tell the AI to build a depot in that planetary slot. "Ship Auxiliary Control" tells it to build a manufacturing colony.

Does this explanation make sense?

grumbler

May 17th, 2004, 01:26 AM

Can anybody tell me how the AI decides which attack ship design it selects to build on any given turn in any given spaceyard? I still have races building almost exclusively scouts on turn 240, even after I have played around a bit with the planets per ship requirements in AI_Construction_Vehicles.txt. They are designing large attack ships, they are just not building them.

Also, does anyone know (or have a link to where I can find out) what changes the AI state and how I can tell what the AI state of a race is?

Nomor

May 17th, 2004, 01:33 AM

Yes
Thanks

So I was right to not describe these "abilities", yes? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif phew

Now who wants this txt file I seem to have spent the weekend working on?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
PM me with an email address and I send it off. Backup the original first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 16, 2004, 12:38: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Alneyan

May 17th, 2004, 01:43 AM

I should have checked you were only speaking of the facilities.txt file. *Grumbles* Giving the explanation wasn't exactly needed, as a facility will have a hard time doing any kind of minesweeping. (The only one that is actually a facility ability is the Stop Black Hole Creator in your list, as the others do not quite make much sense here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

The One

May 17th, 2004, 03:26 AM

The Brakiri research for medium and heavy weapons are non-exsistant; is this on purpose or will there be weapons for this in the final Version?

[ May 17, 2004, 02:28: Message edited by: The One ]

The One

May 17th, 2004, 03:27 AM

what weapons do the Brakiri have in their arsenal that can allow them to stand up to other races?

[ May 17, 2004, 02:29: Message edited by: The One ]

Fyron

May 17th, 2004, 05:54 AM

and the ship having this ability will not run out of supplies, except perhaps if it cannot store any supply The ship that the QR is on does not have to store any supplies at all.

Stop Black Hole Creator: Ok I get that but trying to justify how a facility has this ability is the problem. Check out the stock game's system gravitational shield facities.

[ May 17, 2004, 04:57: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

The One

May 17th, 2004, 04:20 PM

In what order should the Brakiri research so that one can get all weapons that that race should have, and why are some of these weapons for the Brakiri blank and give you nothing when you researh it.

grumbler

May 17th, 2004, 05:31 PM

TO,

The mod is not complete as it is. Whether anyone will complete the Brakiri in the current Version I couldn't say. Timstone and I are working on a "Version 2.0" of this mod that pretty much rethinks everything here, including weapons. In Version 2.0 the brakiri will have weapons of all sizes, some of them Brakiri-unique and some generic.

Our goal is to have 2.0 done by the end of summer. Until then, you can either make up your own brakiri weapons of simply "turn off" the inapplicable research by making its prerequisite research higher than possible (e.g. Brakiri racial tech level 3).

The One

May 17th, 2004, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by grumbler:
TO,

The mod is not complete as it is. Whether anyone will complete the Brakiri in the current Version I couldn't say. Timstone and I are working on a "Version 2.0" of this mod that pretty much rethinks everything here, including weapons. In Version 2.0 the brakiri will have weapons of all sizes, some of them Brakiri-unique and some generic.

Our goal is to have 2.0 done by the end of summer. Until then, you can either make up your own brakiri weapons of simply "turn off" the inapplicable research by making its prerequisite research higher than possible (e.g. Brakiri racial tech level 3). In the manuel that came with IV Gold, is there a section that talks about making weapons in the mod? I'm bad about reading everything, guess I just don't have the time.(what an excuse).Thanks

Raging Deadstar

May 17th, 2004, 08:31 PM

Not sure

This might help though http://se4modding.spaceempires.net/

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

May 17th, 2004, 08:40 PM

4101 Post

Sorry could not resist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

May 17th, 2004, 11:46 PM

TO: Nothing that I know that specifically goes into how to make the data for weapons as used in the components file. Maybe somewhere in a FAQ or newbie guide or IF's MODding guide.

Also the Version of the B5 MOD I have been using since June Last year has Brakiri researching all levels of their weapons. Maybe upgrade with the Lastest (1.8) from SJ's site?
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/mods

Or Rambies?
http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

[ May 17, 2004, 22:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

grumbler

May 18th, 2004, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
4101 Post

Sorry could not resist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif My browser shows your post as 4118! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

May 18th, 2004, 03:37 AM

All your post are belongs to us!

No, wait, that's Fyron...

The One

May 18th, 2004, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
TO: Nothing that I know that specifically goes into how to make the data for weapons as used in the components file. Maybe somewhere in a FAQ or newbie guide or IF's MODding guide.

Also the Version of the B5 MOD I have been using since June Last year has Brakiri researching all levels of their weapons. Maybe upgrade with the Lastest (1.8) from SJ's site?
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/mods

Or Rambies?
http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm Thanks for the help, but I have downloaded the latest Version of the B5 mod from Rambies site and this is the one I'm having trouble with when it comes to the Brakiri not getting all their weapons from the research, and in regards to the other link, it is broken, but I'm having a heck of a good time playing this mod. Thanks guy's and I can't wait for the finished Version.

Timstone

May 18th, 2004, 07:11 AM

My, my, I'm gone for about one week and look at the huge amount of Posts in this thread. Great!

Oh yeah, I'm Dutch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

People, I'm really, really sorry for my long absence here. And especially sorry for Grumbler. He's doing ALL the work now. Damn internet stuff. My provider promissed me to install (on their end of the line) the new stuff at the end of this week, but I have my doubts. I really hope they can mak it work. The only place for me to contact you guys is at my friends house or via my work. And I'm not that much at work these days. I hope I can be of assistance soon again.

But this unexpected break from the internet does wonders for a relationship you know. My Polish babe really likes it. Now we have more time for other "games" and stupid beachwalks, bleh... Luckily she doesn't make me visit my family more often, that would have really ruined it all.

Oh yeah, I'm Dutch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Grumbler:
Why would you want to implement the LNAW? They are just a collection of races. They must have (to be canon) all the techs of the races that are included in the LNAW. That makes them at least as strong as an Ancient. Not very fair, now is it? I say leave them out of The Mod.

Oh yeah, I'm Dutch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Damn, I'm behind schedule with my Posts. I must reach more Postst, must gain another rank...

Ragnarok-X

May 18th, 2004, 08:56 AM

then again, the Vree are a member of the League, and since i really like the Vree i vote for: Include the Vree !

Fyron

May 18th, 2004, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
then again, the Vree are a member of the League, and since i really like the Vree i vote for: Include the Vree ! They are in the mod already, and have been for years...

pathfinder

May 18th, 2004, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by The One:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pathfinder:
TO: Nothing that I know that specifically goes into how to make the data for weapons as used in the components file. Maybe somewhere in a FAQ or newbie guide or IF's MODding guide.

Also the Version of the B5 MOD I have been using since June Last year has Brakiri researching all levels of their weapons. Maybe upgrade with the Lastest (1.8) from SJ's site?
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/mods

Or Rambies?
http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm Thanks for the help, but I have downloaded the latest Version of the B5 mod from Rambies site and this is the one I'm having trouble with when it comes to the Brakiri not getting all their weapons from the research, and in regards to the other link, it is broken, but I'm having a heck of a good time playing this mod. Thanks guy's and I can't wait for the finished Version. <hr /></blockquote>I'll have to see if other requirements (gravitic weapons or whatever) are being researched.

Suicide Junkie

May 18th, 2004, 10:44 PM

Hmm, a good question is, what Version is currently on imagemodserver? I should label it and update if nessesary.

pathfinder

May 18th, 2004, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Hmm, a good question is, what Version is currently on imagemodserver? I should label it and update if nessesary. I called it B5 MOD v 1.8 *shrug* I didn't exactly keep a good running total of "refinements". It is the same Version as on Rambie's site.

The One

May 19th, 2004, 07:28 AM

Was wondering where one finds the pictures for the shipsets?

[ May 19, 2004, 06:31: Message edited by: The One ]

The One

May 19th, 2004, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The One:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pathfinder:
TO: Nothing that I know that specifically goes into how to make the data for weapons as used in the components file. Maybe somewhere in a FAQ or newbie guide or IF's MODding guide.

Also the Version of the B5 MOD I have been using since June Last year has Brakiri researching all levels of their weapons. Maybe upgrade with the Lastest (1.8) from SJ's site?
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/mods

Or Rambies?
http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm Thanks for the help, but I have downloaded the latest Version of the B5 mod from Rambies site and this is the one I'm having trouble with when it comes to the Brakiri not getting all their weapons from the research, and in regards to the other link, it is broken, but I'm having a heck of a good time playing this mod. Thanks guy's and I can't wait for the finished Version. <hr /></blockquote>I'll have to see if other requirements (gravitic weapons or whatever) are being researched. <hr /></blockquote>It seems the Gravitonic weapons are there and once you get this available then the Brakiri heavy and medium weapons start researching Gravitonic weapons, but Brakiri ultra so far is still not available. What type of weapons do the Brakiri have besides Gravitonic?

[ May 19, 2004, 06:32: Message edited by: The One ]

pathfinder

May 19th, 2004, 12:16 PM

TO: The only other weapons they would have available are the generic (matter, laser, particle, plasma) but only up to heavy level ( think).

grumbler

May 20th, 2004, 01:26 AM

Tim,

Good to hear from you again. I have no problems at all with making each of the League races a seperate race. If they want to partnership with each other, that's great! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Actually, one of the problems with the League being a complete race is that they have a different atmosphere type, and so make great targets for predation (to steal pops that aren't dome-limited). Certainly a great many of them were oxygen-breathers. Making them a bunch of races (many of them minors) would limit the "atmosphere effect" so I favor it.

Nomor, I have looked over the file you sent me, and will spend some time this weekend putting together the combined efforts of yourself and myself (you have a lot of text I never entered) and explaining the facilities concept. Anything you can think of as race-specific facility-wise will add to the atmosphere of the game, as facilities are now rather generic. Keep in mind that we want facilities to use the same "meaningless" abilities tags to keep the AI files manageable. For example, make different Homeworld hubs that are mutually exclusve, not additional homeworld hubs that have to be chosen between.

Nomor

May 21st, 2004, 03:45 AM

For Insomniacs.

At the end of the Earth Minbari War there was a scramble by Earth to obtain new technologies and resources to fund their fleet rebuilding program.

IPX (Interplanetary Expeditions) soon became leader in the discovery of new worlds for colonisation and exploitation, and new technologies either through first contact or by actual acquisition from "lost civilisations".

They consequently became the developers of proto colony modules , designed for rapid deployment on new worlds, to legitimise any claims based on first discovery. They proved so successful in this role that IPX were able to market the modules for use to other Races too busy or low tech to develop their own. IPX usually tied sale of these modules to a share in any technological discovery.

The first of these modules, the IPX DOME was essentially a pre fabricated modular research unit that could be operational in weeks by a skeleton workforce. Initially designed for the Institute of Xenostudies, its research potential was quite high. It also had communication links and a limited scanning facility of up 2 or 3 sectors. System wide scanning was considered too high profile for what was essentially covert research but it was deemed necessary to know who was interested in your activities should you be paid a visit. Later developments provided workshops for equipment repairs.
Net products:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Research - High
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Intelligence - Low
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Repair/construction? - Subsistence

The other modules were more profit making modules to further fund IPX's primary mission of research and tech procurement:-

IPX (AMP) Module or Atmospheric Modification Plant . This facility Changes the atmosphere of the planet to one that is breathable.

Due to a reluctance to fund earlier AMP designs due to their long construction times and even longer modification times a new philosophy to Atmospheric ConVersion emerged. The new AMP facility took just under a year to begin operation. It still took 60 years to convert an atmosphere unless more resources were applied, however investors could start to see a probable return for their investment. The only side effect to this method was the total detriment of the conditions of a planet and the negative effect on the resources value, due to flooding and other forces of nature. Reactors for these facilities are crude and consume resources the whole time the facility is operational. Once ConVersion is achieved the facility is best destroyed.

Universal Terraform : a mega-corporation that explores and prepares new worlds for colonisation or exploitation, had a deal with IPX to provide Climate Control and Value Improvement Modules that would begin repairing the damage caused to the eco system by the IPX-AMP . At least these operations could be conducted in breathable atmospheres. Pioneer colonist rather enjoyed the challenge of improving new worlds and would flood to the new colonies for the satisfaction of expanding the human condition.

The above all became available generically to the non aligned races with the more advanced races using their own processes.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Tech Specs A.U.R http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Available upon ....

[ May 21, 2004, 03:28: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Fyron

May 21st, 2004, 06:45 AM

Careful with the length of descriptions used in-game... if they are too long, they will cut off the ability descriptions, making them all just bullets. If there is so much text description that the description goes below the bottom of the graphic for that item (component or facility), the ability descriptions disappear, with only the bullets remaining. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Nomor

May 21st, 2004, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Careful with the length of descriptions used in-game... if they are too long, they will cut off the ability descriptions, making them all just bullets. If there is so much text description that the description goes below the bottom of the graphic for that item (component or facility), the ability descriptions disappear, with only the bullets remaining. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif This is not meant as "description" but a wooden spoon on the issue of facility build times.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

grumbler

May 22nd, 2004, 01:41 AM

Nomor,

I think the best approach to making terraforming facilities use up resources during the conVersion (an idea I had already incorporated) is to simply make them so expensive that they will use resources for years before completing the conVersion - but then converting the atmosphere immediately upon completion. In esence, they are processes rather than facilities. Other than that, I like the idea of having the converters damage the environment and values and additional facilities being required to restore the damage.

The ancient varients of these should be much more powerful - in one of the trilogies the Shadows are described doing an atmosphere conVersion/ terraforming in a few years... and we want the process to be completable in a normal game, else it makes little sense to include it.

I am interested in hearing your (or anyone's) ideas for how to make homeworld hubs race-specific. If ANY facility should be race-specific, it is this one. I think a wide range of mixing and matching should be allowed. In fact, the only limits are the numbers of abilities that make sense in the canon and the total number limit on abilities for any one facility.

Try to limit the build rate on HHs, though, to 2000. One of the main concepts of Version 2 is that ship construction should be in orbital bases. The base construction rate of planets is 2000 and so building a planet-based shipyard serves primarily to gain the ability to build the orbital acilities.

grumbler

May 22nd, 2004, 01:47 AM

Suicide Junkie,

I tried out your idea of having satellites be bases. It seems to iron out a lot of wrinkles, but then it seems impossible to make the AI build them, as the AI wants to build honking big bases when it builds bases. Also, the numbers of bases around the planet become a management issue unless you allow bases to join fleets (in which case you just make a "Satellite Fleet" at each planet and tuck 'em out of sight)... but then I don't know if the AI won't make its fleets immobile by sticking bases in them.

Also, when I experimentally limit AI bases sizes to force them to build these little satellite bases, they just build every satellite base around their honeworld (and the AI not spreading out bases is an issue that needs to be tackled if possible anyway).

Sigh.. any thoughts, anyone? I sure wish satellites orbited planets in the basic game.

Fyron

May 22nd, 2004, 07:14 AM

AIs don't add bases to fleets.

Nomor

May 22nd, 2004, 12:26 PM

Question: I know we can create troops that are transportable as cargo , that can be stored on planets and in ships cargo bays. Is it possible to have a troop that is assigned an ability such as increase research or increases intelligence. If certain structures have cargo capacities and these are then stocked with these Intel/Research troops it gives a bonus to the production of these type of facilities. These troops in effect become scientists and spies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Re: Home Hub Vorlon : The presence of such, should give a boost to the reproduction of Vorlon population say 50%, as these are very low for this race. It should perhaps be system wide and not empire wide . I'm assuming that Vorlons can colonise for this ability, either through Colony ships or by conquest.

I've always thought the Vorlon troop should be worth 20 of the lesser race troops due to their encounter suits. Shadow troops worth 5 to 10 of lesser races due to a personal cloak that could only be negated by telepaths or high level scanning facilities. Shadow reproduction should be higher than Vorlon

Whether or not it is possible to have troops with telepathic abilities is again unknown by me, it would be nice to be able to trade such troops to the Narns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif The Minbari HH or Unification Plaza could have the effect of minimising rebellion or the chance for Minbari ships to be lost by joining another races cause.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[ May 22, 2004, 18:46: Message edited by: Nomor ]

grumbler

May 22nd, 2004, 03:10 PM

We are not at the point of adding Ancients to the mod yet, but the idea that they cannot colonize in the B5 timeline has been retained. If there is an Ancients mod later on, then obviously this will have to be relaxed.

It is a pity that races cannot have different "tons per pop" factor, as this would simply allow us to make the Vorlon and Shadow pops too big to move, and only their minion races would be able to move pops.

The "ground forces" of both the Shadows and Vorlons will represent minion race troops, not actual Shadows and Vorlons. Both were nearly immortal and so would not risk themselves in such combat (and in fact the Shadows didn't even risk themselves in ship combat, though it appears the Vorlons did man their ships).

grumbler

May 22nd, 2004, 03:14 PM

It is certainly possible to make ground units able to use the Combat Telepath component. I cannot think of any example other than Lyta's presence on Mars, but that doesn't mean anything as we certainly didn't see many of the actions of the Shadow War.

Nomor

May 22nd, 2004, 06:32 PM

PF & Grum: Re Vorlon colonisation. That's actually better that Vorlon's colonise through conquest. We know that Vorlons can fight because Kosh fought the Shadows on B5 and the security when Mk II was evicted. We also had the Shadows being zapped on Centauri Prime when Morden was terminated.

They certainally showed the stomach for it at the final battle but if that's they you want to go for now that's fine.

Re: the Atmospheric Modification Plant ; rather than " make them so expensive that they will use resources for years before completing the conVersion" why not instill the following abitity:

Resource Gen Modifier System - (Radioactives Organics and Minerals)*
Value1 = Percentage change of resource generation for entire system (+/- percentage).
Value2 = -10

* need not be the same value for each resouce!

Ideally if this was Empire Wide it would make more sense, the cost of modifying a planet would be like a tax on the Empire, until such time as the planet was converted.

The other thing I've always wanted was for Planet's with Ancient ruins/technologies to also have the following:

Planet Point Generation Modifier - Research
Value1 = Percentage change of point generation for entire planet (+/- percentage).
Value2 = 20

Planet Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence
Value1 = Percentage change of point generation for entire planet (+/- percentage).
Value2 = 5

So that any Facility placed on a planet that had the Ancient tag would provide an increase to any research or Intel facility placed on it.
This would also preserve the Ancient planets identity which always went once the colony ship colonised it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Why not also have an increased chance of plague hitting the colonising race due to some microb they dug up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ May 22, 2004, 17:42: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Suicide Junkie

May 22nd, 2004, 06:44 PM

The problem with that idea for the atmo modders is that only the best value is used.

A zero or positive value modifier anywhere else in the system will negate all of its effects.

Instead, why not just use a big negative for "point generation" (which is independent of planet value)
Only good for Gold, but for Classic, the solar resource generation would be an acceptable substitute in most cases...

Ragnarok-X

May 22nd, 2004, 07:07 PM

do you mean you can give components and facilitys a negative point generation value ?! i never thought of that. Imho that has much potential for modding in general !

Nomor

May 23rd, 2004, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The problem with that idea for the atmo modders is that only the best value is used.

A zero or positive value modifier anywhere else in the system will negate all of its effects.

Instead, why not just use a big negative for "point generation" (which is independent of planet value)
Only good for Gold, but for Classic, the solar resource generation would be an acceptable substitute in most cases... grumbler: Like what he says... (SJ that is)...do that instead.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 22, 2004, 23:30: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 23rd, 2004, 01:38 AM

Nomor: do not know how Timstone and Grumbler are handling the Vorlons (all ancients for that matter) but the concensus Last year by most players was that the Ancients would NOT have ANY colonization capability. They would only be able to get colonies through gifts or conquering. So that is the way the MOD I just "finished" is set up.

Phoenix-D

May 23rd, 2004, 01:58 AM

Might want to be careful. Point generation is independant of planet value but I don't know if is effected by things like Robotoid factories..your -100 minerals per turn could turn into -160!

Nomor

May 23rd, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Might want to be careful. Point generation is independant of planet value but I don't know if is effected by things like Robotoid factories..your -100 minerals per turn could turn into -160! Would someone care to explain this and related Posts? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nomor

May 23rd, 2004, 03:32 PM

Re: Ancient Ruins . Is there not a way to have a description that remains in the planet window that indicated that this planet has ruins on it.

This always used to vanish after your colony had landed. It would also be nice if these planets had a modification value to Research and Intel that remained, to indicate continued discovery. This would make the planets with Ancient Ruins valuable for conquest even after the initial settling. A motivator for War.. Hurrah! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Can this not be done? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ May 23, 2004, 14:37: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

May 23rd, 2004, 09:44 PM

I must be the only one without a life.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I seem to remember that it was possible to give an ability to weapons so that they targeted certain components such as engines and maybe weapons.

I think it would be a great idea to assign some of the fighter weapons with this ability. They could be a separate branch of the existing weapons e.g.
Uni Pulse Cannon:
Description: Trained to only target engines
Ability:- Targets engines only

Then you could have certain fleets that only targeted engines. I'm a bit upset http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif that my current fighter wing keep's murdering civilian colonist that try to pass through my system. I'd much rather capture them and put them to work as slaves on my colonies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

However it would be nice if they would simply disable then until I can get round to sending a boarding vessel to intern them all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ May 23, 2004, 20:46: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Suicide Junkie

May 24th, 2004, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by Nomor:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Might want to be careful. Point generation is independant of planet value but I don't know if is effected by things like Robotoid factories..your -100 minerals per turn could turn into -160! Would someone care to explain this and related Posts? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr /></blockquote>If a robotoid factory - like facility says it increases resource production by 30%, then:
-200 minerals x 130% = -260 minerals.

If you have a net loss of resources in the system, a robotoid will make the loss even worse.

Rambie

May 24th, 2004, 04:28 AM

New PBW Game "Babylon5 - The Great War" is open and looking for players. This game uses the newly released mod for SE4 Gold that is available from my site: http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

I'm also going to use the expanded "facility.txt" data file that Nomor made.

I'm sorry it took so long to get this going... I've had an illness in the family that has taken priority.

[ May 24, 2004, 03:32: Message edited by: Rambie ]

Ragnarok-X

May 24th, 2004, 04:24 PM

Rambie: The link on the index page does not work !

Nomor

May 24th, 2004, 04:53 PM

So it is not possible to have a facility that just consumes named resources per turn. Like a Mineral miner produces 250 minerals per turn the AMP would just take from Empire Reserves. -250

Mr Junkie: Is it not possible t upload to the imagemodserver ?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Nomor

May 24th, 2004, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Rambie: The link on the index page does not work ! No... but you can get to the files by clicking the Files icon at the bottom of the page.

The "Updated Facilities.txt file" is not 10Mb but 123kb.

Thanks Rambie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 24, 2004, 18:39: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Ragnarok-X

May 24th, 2004, 07:49 PM

I noticed that, too. I just thought i may tell it to Rambie so he can update the index page.

gregebowman

May 24th, 2004, 10:43 PM

Just d/l the mod. CAn't wait to check it out.

The One

May 24th, 2004, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Rambie:
New PBW Game "Babylon5 - The Great War" is open and looking for players. This game uses the newly released mod for SE4 Gold that is available from my site: http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

I'm also going to use the expanded "facility.txt" data file that Nomor made.

I'm sorry it took so long to get this going... I've had an illness in the family that has taken priority. I have a question is this mod the very latest or an older Version from Last week when this was first put on Rambies site?

Rambie

May 25th, 2004, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Rambie: The link on the index page does not work ! Sorry, I'll fix it. The file is available from the Files section... uh, looks like Nomor beat me to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Rambie

May 25th, 2004, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by The One:
I have a question is this mod the very latest or an older Version from Last week when this was first put on Rambies site? I was not aware there was another Version. This is the file I was sent on a CD-R by Henry Thomson on May 3rd. If there is a newer Version, that the developers are wanting posted, I can replace the one on my site.

Rambie

May 25th, 2004, 03:22 AM

My proposed B5 Games settings:
- Large B5 Standard Galaxy
- No Events
- Low Tech Cost
- 1 Good starting planet
- 20K Starting Resources
- Med Starting techs
- 3K Racial Points
- Simultaneous turns

Suicide Junkie

May 25th, 2004, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by Nomor:
So it is not possible to have a facility that just consumes named resources per turn. Like a Mineral miner produces 250 minerals per turn the AMP would just take from Empire Reserves. -250

Mr Junkie: Is it not possible t upload to the imagemodserver ?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I just finished some testing. There is nothing I can find that will affect the points generated by that ability.

The production modifiers do not change it. Even racial traits do not affect the amount generated (or destroyed)Yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'll turn the upload back on for you.

Lighthorse

May 25th, 2004, 04:44 AM

Orginally Posted by Rambie
I was not aware there was another Version. This is the file I was sent on a CD-R by Henry Thomson on May 3rd. If there is a newer Version, that the developers are wanting posted, I can replace the one on my site.

I got the CD-R orginally from Pathfinder. Pathfinder label it as 1.8v Babylon 5. I think it the latest verion completed in the later April, 2004 by Pathfinder. Was unable to upload onto PBW SE4 since the file was to large 70MB's. Rambie offer to post it on his website, thus I mailed it off to him. Thanks again, Rambie.
Rambie please save the Narn Regime for me in your B5 Great War campaign.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

May 25th, 2004, 05:47 AM

what about these setings? Im more interested about RP aspect of this game, what is special rules for this?

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 1
Home planet value: Good
Score display: allied
Technology level: Medium,
Racial points: 3000 or 5000 ?
Quadrant type: B5 map type
Quadrant size: Medium,
Event frequency: Low-Medium ?
Event severity: Low-High
Technology cost: Low
Computer players: none-low
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium-High
Neutral empires: Yes

Nomor

May 25th, 2004, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nomor:
So it is not possible to have a facility that just consumes named resources per turn. Like a Mineral miner produces 250 minerals per turn the AMP would just take from Empire Reserves. -250

Mr Junkie: Is it not possible t upload to the imagemodserver ?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I just finished some testing. There is nothing I can find that will affect the points generated by that ability.

The production modifiers do not change it. Even racial traits do not affect the amount generated (or destroyed)Yay! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'll turn the upload back on for you. <hr /></blockquote>This is one of thoes No I mean Yes or Yes I mean no answers. Sorry Is that a good thing: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
There is nothing I can find that will affect the points generated by that ability.
Can you actually have such an ability because that would make the AMP workerble. i.e To have resources consumed much like ships require maintenance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Thanks for the upload thingy. I take it they arrived safely? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 25, 2004, 07:14: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Fyron

May 25th, 2004, 08:03 AM

The problem with the new point generation abilities is that they do NOT show up anywhere in-game. You have no idea how much they are making or losing in total. Your resource stockpiles change correctly each turn, but the empire status screen does not record their production. Neither do the planet reports. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Nomor

May 25th, 2004, 08:10 AM

IF: I see... I think... but how about this:

Re: Ancient Ruins . Is there not a way to have a description that remains in the planet window that indicated that this planet has ruins on it.

This always used to vanish after your colony had landed. It would also be nice if these planets had a modification value to Research and Intel that remained, to indicate continued discovery. This would make the planets with Ancient Ruins valuable for conquest even after the initial settling. A motivator for War.. Hurrah!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Can this not be done?

Fyron

May 25th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Sadly, no. Abilities like the ones used by Robotoids and Computer Complexes do not work when given to the planet itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Nomor

May 25th, 2004, 08:22 AM

But we can have weapons that target certain components... like engine. But what are the restrictions.

Ideally targeting reactors would be next best, or to have an EMP minefield that took out the scanner components.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

narf poit chez BOOM

May 25th, 2004, 10:32 AM

I want weapons that target that instantaneus communications link.

Suicide Junkie

May 25th, 2004, 12:45 PM

Well, they target the engine ability, rather than the components...

All the damage types should be listed at the top of the file.

Timstone

May 25th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Well hello again,

Tjeez, I beginning to feel like a, a, a person without internet!!!! Aarrrgggg!!!!!
My whole social life is dying... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I really wish those @$$#0|3$ at planet internet did something. This little mistake of them is taking a few months now to rectify. Stupid idiots.

Grumbler:
Glad you decided to take out the LNAW. I hope I can be of assistance pretty quick cuase this is getting on my nerves. It's not right. I should do my part.
Anyway, I hope I can be back here before the end of this week. But again no promisses. I don't know how incompetent those fools on the other end my internet connection are.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Raging Deadstar

May 25th, 2004, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Timstone:
... But again no promisses. I don't know how incompetent those fools on the other end my internet connection are.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Only The Best Incompotent Fools of Course! It's an ISP afterall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 25th, 2004, 05:40 PM

Did the marketing department actually get you to believe the "I" stood for "internet" instead? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Rambie

May 26th, 2004, 02:34 AM

Lighthorse

May 26th, 2004, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by astruskustuvas:
what about these setings? Im more interested about RP aspect of this game, what is special rules for this?

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 1
Home planet value: Good
Score display: allied
Technology level: Medium,
Racial points: 3000 or 5000 ?
Quadrant type: B5 map type
Quadrant size: Medium,
Event frequency: Low-Medium ?
Event severity: Low-High
Technology cost: Low
Computer players: none-low
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium-High
Neutral empires: Yes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still vote for no AI but I'm cool with Low events with medium severity. Depending on how many players we have a Large map will give us more room. We had a large map Last game and was pretty much ontop of eachother - NO FUN.
I myself prefer high computer bonus for AI in case a player drops out and the AI takes over. Thus start the game with no AI player, except neutral empires. Also I would want a large cluster map, there more planets/sections in a large cluster map. Rambie right, it doesn't take long before your bumping into another players.

I would like a high technology cost to increase to lenght of the campaign. Low cost your always refitting your ships to keep current on the latest tech. And, we should start with low technology level for the same reason.

Lastly I would want to view one own score only, adds more fog of war to the campaign. Racial points, 2K or 3K or 5K, doesn't matter to me.

My two cent worth
Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

May 26th, 2004, 08:13 AM

astruskustuvas

May 26th, 2004, 08:40 AM

How expanded fighter bay should work, cuz i cant add fighter bays when this component is instaled,
is it a bug?

Ragnarok-X

May 26th, 2004, 02:49 PM

i agree "view own score only" -> very important to me.

Nomor

May 26th, 2004, 07:05 PM

I've very much enjoyed the current single player game using EA in the quick start menu. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

There are only two bugs that spring to mind:-

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif comp_853.bmp is missing; ( from a Vorlon Ship.)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif All the AI Fighters I've come across are suicide pilots armed with Kamikaze Warheads. Oops.. Minbari only. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

There are two other things I've noticed which make me think that an earlier Version of a file was used to work on the Current Mod:

The Advanced ECM and Advanced Combat Sensors should be 5kT to show that they are an extension of an existing component ( Basic ECM etc..) and not 10kT . I think the non AI player will be more inclined to use them if they don't hog space. (Can you check your old set ups to confirm this, I may be going mad.)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Other than that I'm going to try the following to see how it plays out:

Change the damage on the Uni_pulse fighter weapon from normal to engines only and weapons only . Sheridan was always saying target engines and weapons only and I need the resources the helpless ships should provide.

Modify the Atmospheric ConVersion Plant to the Basic Original game construction time frame but with the penalties discussed in the forum, still with the 60 year conVersion time.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif I'm going to trawl through the weapon component and try to get some of the descriptions and abilities done, on a backup file so that my corruptions are not on it. I'll make a Comp_modification. txt file to show the changes made.

All infantry troops should have a Maintenance cost of 1 Organics

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ May 27, 2004, 02:59: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Fyron

May 26th, 2004, 07:33 PM

engines only and weapons only A weapon can have only one or the other.

Nomor

May 26th, 2004, 07:46 PM

Damn ... I can't do anything in this mod.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ...
... .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif OK half my Fighters will have Engines only and the other half... Weapons only ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ May 26, 2004, 18:52: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Lighthorse

May 27th, 2004, 03:46 AM

i hope you like this.

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 1
Home planet value: Good
Score display: own
Technology level: low(medium please)
Racial points: 5000
Quadrant type: Cluster
Quadrant size: Large
Event frequency: Low
Event severity: medium
Technology cost: high
Computer players: none
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: High
Neutral empires: Yes
Special rules? i hope you like this????????????????????????
I was only expressing what I would prefer. This is a forum for excharging ideas and thoughts, right. Hopefully we can get more people interested in the campaign, and they can discuss that they like or dislike. It doesn't have to be only my way, but if you want to, sure.
As for special rules, the most common one I notice is No Surrendering, thus prevents someone ruining the campaign for the rest of players, since he/she isn't winning.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

May 27th, 2004, 12:45 PM

dont be so egoistic, this is not only for you, unless you are playing alone?

grumbler

May 28th, 2004, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by astruskustuvas:
dont be so egoistic, this is not only for you, unless you are playing alone? Where did this come from, and to whom was it directed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Lighthorse

May 28th, 2004, 04:28 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by astruskustuvas:
dont be so egoistic, this is not only for you, unless you are playing alone?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where did this come from, and to whom was it directed?

Grumbler,
astruskustuvas directed it again me. As the saying goes "No good turn goes without publishment" This is what I get for trying to assisted astruskustuvas.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

May 28th, 2004, 10:36 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i hope you like this.

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 1
Home planet value: Good
Score display: own
Technology level: low(medium please)
Racial points: 5000
Quadrant type: Cluster
Quadrant size: Large
Event frequency: Low
Event severity: medium
Technology cost: high
Computer players: none
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: High
Neutral empires: Yes
Special rules?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i hope you like this????????????????????????
I was only expressing what I would prefer. This is a forum for excharging ideas and thoughts, right. Hopefully we can get more people interested in the campaign, and they can discuss that they like or dislike. It doesn't have to be only my way, but if you want to, sure.
 dont be so egoistic, this is not only for you, unless you are playing alone i just posted my seting and asked do you like seting that i prefer (i mean all players). If you dont then post sugestions not insults.these words sounded like I DONT CARE WHAT SETINGS YOU PREFER.

Its just our cultural diference and my bad english skills.

What about RP rules?

V..Peace..V

Timstone

May 28th, 2004, 02:02 PM

Grumbler:
With some good luck and a lot of bribing, I might be Online again comming tuesday. Yeah!!
Keep your fingers crossed.
Could you please send me a nice progress update, if you're not too busy?

Nomor

May 28th, 2004, 06:03 PM

astruskustuvas: I was a lurker for more than a year before I dipped my toe in this bath. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 28, 2004, 17:04: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

May 28th, 2004, 11:09 PM

Sorry if this is "off topic" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is my Version of the Uni-Pulse Cannon that only takes out engines. I tried to add this to the components.txt file with mixed results.
It worked,but had undesirable effects on other things.I ran a test by modifying the original that worked. I had a fighter with 2 cannons, one only engines the other only weapons, that disabled any ship that ran into it that had no point defence. I cleaned up on the resources front at the loss of components to research.

Also whilst it appeared next to the original Uni-pulse when configuring fighter components it would vanish if the "latest" setting was invoked. Ideally I want it to be visible along side the original as I only intended to have Marks I to V for this mount. As level VI of the Original is researched the Mk V disappears. How do I assign this so that it is available to pick no matter how far up the research tree you are.

If I can get this to work I'll do a weapons only Variant.

What do I need to change to keep this visible for picking when configuring fighters? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I don't want to effect any research tree.

Name := Uni-Pulse Cannon I (EngTL)
Description := The Uni-Pulse Cannon is a fighter-mounted weapon which is often found paired on most basic fighters.
Pic Num := 610
Tonnage Space Taken := 4
Tonnage Structure := 2
Cost Minerals := 2
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ftr\Trp
Supply Amount Used := 1
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 12741 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif change by one = solution
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Particle Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Earth Alliance Tiny Weapons
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := 0
Tech Level Req 3 :=
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Cloak Level ( bogus ability to allow for description: below)
Ability 1 Descr := Targeting CPU locked on engines only.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 10 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Only Engines
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 149
Weapon Speed := 0
Weapon Modifier := 3
Weapon Sound := SFuryGun.wav
Weapon Family := 1741 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif change by 1 = solution
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ May 29, 2004, 12:24: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Phoenix-D

May 28th, 2004, 11:18 PM

If two components of the same family are right above/below each other in the file, the one on the bottom is the ONLY one shown when "latest only" is selected.

If you want both to show up you have to put a different component of another family in between, or change the family on one of the components.

Nomor

May 28th, 2004, 11:29 PM

So if I do Marks I through V of this and stick the Only Engines at the start of the txt list and the Only Weapons at the end of the list it should work??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Thanks in advance.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
The above didn't work... so changing family name.. won't that mess with the research tree? I would need a legitimate number, I can't just make one up, can I?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ May 29, 2004, 00:26: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

May 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM

Side track again....

Made changes to the below so that it was constructed in about 4 to 5 turns by a colony of 100 million. Still waiting for one to change having played for a week. The Last line had a very interesting effect. The negative effect only showed up in the Colonies Menu (F4-key) under Production , and not in the Empire Status (F11-key) although it was clear it was deducted from the Net Resources Per Turn totals.

What was noted was that -500kT was reduced by the % production from happiness etc so that -51% meant that only 249kT was deducted from the Empire pool. This works well as a Tax effect for building Atmos Adj. as the population is only taxed on it's income. As it gets happier the Radioactives deducted increase. Unfortunately the conVersion time is still too long (600 turns) because all this negative effect makes the Planet valueless and the research tree does not provide the counter measure until much later.

For the sake of playability if the conVersion time was reduced to say: 30yr/25yrs/20yrs i.e. 300/250/200 turns this would give you low value plants earlier and would still make the Ancient Version desirable as it starts at 20yrs and does not have any of the negative effects. I still have not managed to research Atmospheric Adjuster II so the game is still relatively slow.

NB. Placing one of these on a Planet that needed no conVersion had no effect on the resources i.e. Radioactives were not deducted.

Modifications: original shown in bold

Name := Atmospheric Adjuster I
Description := Massive atmospheric processors which slowly change the atmosphere of a planet to a breathable state.
Facility Group := Planet Modification
Facility Family := 44
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 67
Cost Minerals := 1000 was 50000
Cost Organics := 500 was 50000
Cost Radioactives := 1000 was 50000
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Atmospheric Modification
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 7
Ability 1 Type := Planet - Change Atmosphere
Ability 1 Descr := Changes the atmosphere of the planet to one that is breathable by its colony over 60 years.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 600 (Change this to 300 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Planet - Shield Generation
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 200
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Planet - Change Conditions
Ability 3 Descr := The upheaval to the planets eco system and weather patterns will steadily decrease the planet's value by as much 2% per year.
Ability 3 Val 1 := -2
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Planet - Change Minerals Value
Ability 4 Descr := Errosion and corrosion has a negative impact on Mineral and Radioactives values of planet by 1% each rotation.
Ability 4 Val 1 := -1
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Planet - Change Radioactives Value
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := -1
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Planet - Change Organics Value
Ability 6 Descr := As these are primitive worlds the organic properties are similarly affected.
Ability 6 Val 1 := -1
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
Ability 7 Type := Resource Generation - Radioactives
Ability 7 Descr := Consumes 500kT Radioactives each turn. NB. +/- at Mean Average Production.
Ability 7 Val 1 := -500 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Ability 7 Val 2 := 0

The problem with the current Version of this Facility is that if you are invaded at turn 599 of your construction the whole deal is lost. However by having a quick construction time, any one capturing your planet suddenly has a negative resource problem that they may not be ready for. ( That'll teach em) Also the conVersion may still go on.(unsure on that... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif )

Your comments eagerly awaited. Timstone; grumbler; PF; SJ; Rambie;Phoenix-D etc..

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ May 29, 2004, 12:20: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Phoenix-D

May 29th, 2004, 02:16 AM

Changing family doesn't affect the research tree at all. That's controlled 100% by the tech area req part of the component.

grumbler

May 29th, 2004, 05:01 PM

Nomor,

A coupla thoughts about atmosphere conVersions and the related domed planets:

1. If the conVersion takes 600 turns, no one will undertake it. I haven't ever played a campaign past about turn 400, when the outcome is obvious.

2. Placing a "tax" on ACs makes them even less likely to be undertaken.

3. When domed planets finish all of their construction, they appear in the build queue window as empty of construction. However, they have quite small cargo spaces, so unless you keep transports standing by to empty them, they quickly "fill up" and can undertake no more construction. Now, the BQ window is an essential management tool, as it shows where construction can be undertaken. I don't like having to scroll past lots of "useless" empty queues to find the ones where I can actually build something and not worry about having space left for it.

Thus, if you simply make the AC a long-term project that converts atmospheres when completed, you:
1. Have the "tax benefit" of your proposed mod, and
2. Keep the project in the build queue so it isn't "empty" and there isn't any need to scroll past the planet to find "valid available build queues."

As a side benefit, you actually start to use new AC technology as invented by simply "upgrading the construction" rather than having to upgrade the facility. This makes AC tech much more valuable to research. As it is under your suggestion, it makes little sense of research AC until you simply don't have anything else to research, since it won't give you a benefit you can use.

Now, AC isn't really undertaken explicitely by anyone in the canon bar the Shadows, but if we assume that it is being undertaken implicitely by, say, the humans on Proxima, then a process rather than a standard facility type still makes sense. After all, Proxima isn't producing its own satellites or whatnot to help against the blockade, so they must be, in game terms, producing something else - which I propose is an AC.

Currently, my thinking is that an AC should take, at max tech and max (600) domed population, some 100 turns to build. In effect, this will mean something more like 200 years from game start, as planets will take time to reach max pop and it will take time to research AC3. I think this sort of timeframe will make the effort worth undertaking, but am willing to listen to other ideas.

Timstone

June 1st, 2004, 07:32 PM

Alrighty then!!I'm back in the air again!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
After a long period named the dark age I was cut off the primal source of life, namely the internet. But on this glorious day I, Timstone, regained my rightful place in the community again. Long live the internet, and electricity, and Babylon 5, and women, and Hertog Jan Pils, and of course my beloved homecountry Holland.

Mordred

June 1st, 2004, 08:50 PM

Hi ppl!
Is there any Manual or something like this out?
I just installed the Mod but got some problems.

For example. If i play "B5 Noamds" tech tree, do i need the "B5 standart" tree too?
I used the Nomads tree, but i was unable to colonize (sure, i'm a nomad! ;-) ) and got only 1500 research points (not enough!)....i was unable to capture ships or colonys or so....
mhm....pls help ;-)

best would be a manual!

Mordred

June 1st, 2004, 08:52 PM

<removed due to "doubleposting">

[ June 01, 2004, 19:58: Message edited by: Mordred ]

pathfinder

June 1st, 2004, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Mordred:
Hi ppl!
Is there any Manual or something like this out?
I just installed the Mod but got some problems.

For example. If i play "B5 Noamds" tech tree, do i need the "B5 standart" tree too?
I used the Nomads tree, but i was unable to colonize (sure, i'm a nomad! ;-) ) and got only 1500 research points (not enough!)....i was unable to capture ships or colonys or so....
mhm....pls help ;-)

best would be a manual! B5 Nomads does NOT operate properly.

grumbler

June 1st, 2004, 11:25 PM

There is a Bit Torrent link to the music to the abandoned B5 game "into the Fire" here (http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=105360#post105360). There is a discussion of the "legality" of releasing this in that thread, so you might want to read it to understand what you are letting yourself in for if you decide to download it.

Fyron

June 2nd, 2004, 01:45 AM

Personally, I think the focus should be on speeding up the gameplay of the B5 Mod, not slowing it down even more so than it is now... it is bad for PBW in it's current state.

Lighthorse

June 2nd, 2004, 04:11 AM

Hey Rambie,

Apply to join Babylon 5 PBW game.

Here how I would like the game to be set

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 1
Home planet value: Good
Score display: own
Technology level: low
Racial points: 2000
Quadrant type: Cluster or B5 standard
Quadrant size: Large
Event frequency: Low
Event severity: medium
Technology cost: high
Computer players: none
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: High
Neutral empires: Yes
Special rules: No surrendering, The ancient race unable to colonizes new planets thus they gain new planets by gifts or conquest,players can save the map during the game, players can see complete tech tree, and players can only colonize home planet type.
Max/min for ships and units set to 20,000
Victory condition set to none

This is what I would like, but I open to other suggestions too.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

June 2nd, 2004, 10:18 AM

Special rules: No surrendering, The ancient race unable to colonizes new planets thus they gain new planets by gifts or conquest,players can save the map during the game, players can see complete tech tree, and players can only colonize home planet type.
I like it:). But without colonization they should get biger planet sphere/ringworld (?). oh and if they get them, then they cant attack minor races till turn 10-100(?)

Racial points: 2000 i agree but ancients should get more 5000 or 3000.

..................................................
V..Peace..V

Nomor

June 3rd, 2004, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Personally, I think the focus should be on speeding up the gameplay of the B5 Mod, not slowing it down even more so than it is now... it is bad for PBW in it's current state. As the Vorlons might say..... "Yes".

This is a list of the PF 1.8 Gold Mod Facilities and their build times relative to population quantities. All are jubilant. All times are number of turns. 10 turns are equal to 1 year.Game Time.

_____________________Homeworld_Rock__Tiny-Domed__Domed
.................................................. ...2000m....... 500m..........100m.........4m...

Colony Hub I.....................................8........... .....52..............147.........191
Homeworld Hub...............................20.............. 148..............367..........477

Listening Post..................................2........... .......9...............25............33
Covert Ops Center............................3............... ..17..............47.............61

Manuf. Colony I................................6................ .35..............97............127

Military Outpost I.............................4..................2 7..............74.............96
Adv. Mil. OP I..................................7.............. ....41.............115...........150

Trading Port....................................2......... .........13...............35.............46
Recycling Center.............................3.............. ....16...............44.............57

Atmospheric Adjuster I.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ........11.................. 69 ..............193...........250 .....( + 600 to convert i.e. 60 yrs) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Medical Center I..............................2.................. ..9................25.............33

Archaeology Site I...........................1....................7 .................9..............25.....(
Educational Center I........................3...................17... ............47..............61

Mining Colony I...............................2................. ..10...............26..............34
Aggressive MC................................1............... .....5...............13..............17
Agricultural Colony...........................1................ ....6...............17..............22

Ship Yard I......................................4.......... .........25...............70.............91
Ship Yard II.....................................5.......... .........33...............93............121

Depot I...........................................7..... ..............43..............122............158

If playing PBW and one turn is taken per day then all the figures here represent the # days for construction of named facilities.It gets worse as the later levels appear.

This might well be the best place to start discussing the current mod and how much of your life you wish to commit to the next PBW.

I mean that in the nicest possible way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Sorry for the wonky columns.

PS. I'm not going to play 69 days for my Atmospheric Adjuster to be built and then play a further 2 years for the conVersion to take place just to have some Dutchman with a Polish girlfriend invade my planet one day before conVersion.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif .. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 14, 2004, 18:49: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

June 3rd, 2004, 02:44 AM

@Nomor: your Last line...*snicker* hehe

Yeah, I just did NOT take the time weasel with all the facilities and weapons and all the other stuff that seems out of whack. That is more than one person could do.

Nomor

June 3rd, 2004, 02:59 AM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 05, 2004, 05:06: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Lighthorse

June 3rd, 2004, 04:54 AM

I like it:). But without colonization they should get biger planet sphere/ringworld (?). oh and if they get them, then they cant attack minor races till turn 10-100(?)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Racial points: 2000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i agree but ancients should get more 5000 or 3000. There two type of races in Babylon 5, the two super powers ancient races and everyone else. There a need to balance the game by limiting the ancient ones to no coloniztion, otherwise the ancient will easy win the game everytime. They technology is light years ahead of all the other races. Try playing either ancient race and you see what I mean. They racial points should not excess the other races too for the same reason.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Fyron

June 3rd, 2004, 05:03 AM

Sorry for the wonky columns. If you use the code tags, you can get whitespace (blank spaces for example) to appear as intended.

It seems to me that if we delete the Population Modifiers that are currently in use and restore the stock SE4 ones (from latest 1.91 Gold patch, for the smoothed Version, of course), it would go a long way to making the mod more playable, with a significantly faster pace. Such a change would require very little work to accomplish (5 minutes at most).

Remember, GAMEPLAY trumps REALISM and CANONISM any day.

[ June 03, 2004, 04:06: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Timstone

June 3rd, 2004, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Nomor:
PS. I'm not going to play 69 days for my Atmospheric Adjuster to be built and then play a further 2 years for the conVersion to take place just to have some Dutchman with a Polish girlfriend invade my planet one day before conVersion.... Hahaha... LOL!!!! Great line Nomor. Again , thumbs up for you.
Just to let you know, I've spies at all of your colonies, I will hear every fart you make. And the moment your Atmosperic Adjuster is ready I'll take over the whole colony. It's like Pinky and the Brain.
Oh, beware of the Underwear Gnomes.

astruskustuvas

June 3rd, 2004, 11:57 AM

no colonization 100%
yes one minor have no chance against ancient but few of them then they are dead.
I say ancients should have biger planet(more recources/Research ponts)without it they will lose against 3-4 minors

Fyron

June 3rd, 2004, 07:47 PM

Lighthorse

June 4th, 2004, 05:20 AM

Actually... the ancients could (individually) easily take on about a dozen younger races without breaking a sweat. At least, for the first 400 turns or so of a game. Maybe, just maybe, the younger races could catch up by that time. Not likely, but possible. I agreed with Fyron, play neither the Vorlon or the Shadow and you run over all the other races. Each race resistance would be like a speed bump for the ancient ones.
Thus the ancient ones need to be handicap by some means or only allow the them to be control/played by the AI. That way they won't focus on a single player at a time, before moving on to the next race. The Last game both ancient races were played by Fyron and SJ. They did an excellent performance by role playing the ancients races. Other races stay out of they way and war among themselves. Fun game. maybe Fyron and SJ would be interested in a repeat performance?

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

astruskustuvas

June 4th, 2004, 07:19 AM

rules dosnt mater to me but RP does. As a shadow i dont intend to war with minors, only with vorlons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

oh anyone interesting making B5 map or something similar my map isnt finished yet cuz im busy atm. Im using this map as example

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/Screens_Misc/spacemap2258.jpg

Timstone

June 4th, 2004, 09:46 AM

Whoa, nice map! Where did you get it?!

astruskustuvas

June 4th, 2004, 10:23 AM

im big B5 fan:P
If enyone have info about systems like how much what type planets etc.etc. gime link i'll download it.
My map needs only planets placed (earth alliance planets are placed)

Timstone

June 4th, 2004, 11:43 AM

Sorry I have very few info about the actual systems themselfs. Maybe a short reference here and there in the B5 Wars books about the systems, but that's all.
Hope you can amass enough info to make a B5 map for SE IV. Good luck.

Timstone

June 4th, 2004, 12:17 PM

Wow, post #4200, I almost wasted it on someone else...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 04, 2004, 11:18: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Atrocities

June 5th, 2004, 10:40 AM

70 megs!!!! Good GOD!

Mordred

June 5th, 2004, 10:48 PM

but there's no manual or guide or something like that out?

for example: i have left some techtrees i can research, but i get no reward (that means, i'm researching "nothing"....)

and still some other thinks im wondering 'bout

Sure, this mod isn't complete, i know, but a small manual would be nice....

say. which races are at the moment playable, which techtrees and which options do i have to activate to play a working game?
How do i set up a ship that's fast in the frist rounds.
Why does'nt the "wormhole generator" work? etc.

Alneyan

June 5th, 2004, 11:10 PM

The map in question comes from the B5 Total ConVersion project for Freespace 2, but I cannot tell if it was made for the project or if it comes from a fan site.

I am not sure how developed this project is for the moment being either, as it has been some months since I Last dabbled in Freespace 2 and its mods. Now back to your regular programs, and forgive me for this interruption.

The One

June 6th, 2004, 05:03 AM

how does one get the jumpgates to have enough movement in order to work properly, so far I have not been able to get one to work at all.

[ June 06, 2004, 04:04: Message edited by: The One ]

Raging Deadstar

June 6th, 2004, 12:13 PM

I've played around with the game and if you add the "Agile Ship" (?) component (it has the solar sail image) you can get it to move. Of course i can't quite remember how far up the tech tree this is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Nomor

June 6th, 2004, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by astruskustuvas:
im big B5 fan:P
If enyone have info about systems like how much what type planets etc.etc. gime link i'll download it.
My map needs only planets placed (earth alliance planets are placed) http://www.chronology.org/b-five/

This may help, but you have to search as the info is not all in one place.

There is a list or table of Stars from the show in:- Appendix:Table of interesting stars Follow Astronomy, then Appendix:

[ June 06, 2004, 15:01: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Nomor

June 6th, 2004, 03:39 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ... Delete me.

[ June 06, 2004, 14:58: Message edited by: Nomor ]

The One

June 6th, 2004, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
I've played around with the game and if you add the "Agile Ship" (?) component (it has the solar sail image) you can get it to move. Of course i can't quite remember how far up the tech tree this is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I have added the Agile sail and it shows 2 movement points when it is in the create ship screen, but when it is built is shows "0" movement.

Ragnarok-X

June 6th, 2004, 07:50 PM

there are components which give a specific bonus movement ability. To work, you have to have at least one "regular" engine, or else the "bonus" wont be applied. Try adding one conventional engine and it SHOULD work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Mordred

June 6th, 2004, 08:05 PM

i build a "mobile space yard" and constructed the wormhole generator direct in space.
It was outside the range of any planet, it got a 20 000 resuply generator and nevertheless it was unable to open a wormhole.
I got the "Create wormhole" dialogue, the action was added into the queue but the wormhole never was established ;-(

grumbler

June 6th, 2004, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by Mordred:
i build a "mobile space yard" and constructed the wormhole generator direct in space.
It was outside the range of any planet, it got a 20 000 resuply generator and nevertheless it was unable to open a wormhole.
I got the "Create wormhole" dialogue, the action was added into the queue but the wormhole never was established ;-( You have to have an unexpended MP for the ability to be used. I had the exact same problem on about page 150! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Mordred

June 7th, 2004, 05:38 PM

next question and please forgive me
but, what does "unexpended MP" mean? in special, i dunno the shrotcut of "MP"

Fyron

June 7th, 2004, 06:07 PM

Movement Point. Stellar manipulation requires that you have a movement point to expend during the procedure. Thus, it does not work, at all, on bases. They can not have any (non-combat) movement.

The One

June 7th, 2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
there are components which give a specific bonus movement ability. To work, you have to have at least one "regular" engine, or else the "bonus" wont be applied. Try adding one conventional engine and it SHOULD work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif there is not enough space to put a engine first then the Agile sail, so now what to do?

Raging Deadstar

June 7th, 2004, 06:36 PM

Mod the hull to have a built in movement point, like the stellar manipulation barge in devnull. Moves 1 sector per turn. That should be good enough http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Mordred

June 7th, 2004, 09:02 PM

but that means that the "Jumpgate" ship design i found in this mod is.....worthless at the moment?
I mean, i can only use it if i edit the file to add a movement point, but not before?

*mhm*
Sorry for my english.....hihi but i lack the experience and vocables....

Raging Deadstar

June 7th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Actually it was just a suggestion for the modmakers, but try it if you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 07, 2004, 21:51: Message edited by: Raging Deadstar ]

Goatfoam

June 8th, 2004, 04:57 AM

Hey guys, I tried to read this entire thread from the start and fell short around page 200.

Anyway. So far, great job on this. I recently got into modding myself, and am a huge fan of Babylon 5, so if you need any help let me know. Probably the biggest thing that's been problematic during play is the lack of ability descriptions, especially on facilities. So I don't mind going through the file and putting those descriptions in if you can't think of anything else that needs doing?

Let me know.

Rambie

June 8th, 2004, 05:35 AM

The B5 MOD made the front page at http://www.firstones.com/

Way-to-go dudes.

Atrocities

June 8th, 2004, 07:33 AM

Congrats to all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities

June 8th, 2004, 07:37 AM

I was going through the race images and discovered that many of them need to be remasked. And additionally the inclusion of the Style Tester adds a lot of weight to mod. I would suggest using Adres HTML file and ditch the style testers.

I would be happy to do this for the mod if any one cares to say ok.

pathfinder

June 8th, 2004, 10:37 AM

Atrocities: Go ahead if you want.

Timstone

June 8th, 2004, 12:11 PM

Whoa! We've made the frontpage. Congrats to us all indeed!

Nomor: Thanks for the mail you've send me. I haven't had time to read the text file you've send with it, but the pics are great.

GRumbler:
PM!

[ June 08, 2004, 11:14: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Nomor

June 8th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Oops... Timstone: the text file is the same one from Rambie's site. It just has the facilities descriptions on it. I only got 2/3 down. None of the Ancients.
You can pass the pics on to Grumbler if you think he'll like them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ June 08, 2004, 18:54: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Goatfoam

June 9th, 2004, 01:57 AM

Other than the description bugs/typos et al, there were also quite a few other things that I noticed (or the lack thereof) that I'd really like to see in this mod, hell, even work on if you'd let me. Bare in mind that I haven't tried any of the following ideas out yet, so I don't know how easy they would be to implement, but I'm sure something could be arranged. That's if you like the ideas, of course.

Babylon 5
There... well, there isn't one. I'd love to see it. There are two ideas I had of how you could go about doing this. The first would involve setting Babylon 5 up as a race all of its own. The second would involve new tech trees, most likely for the EA (which, if implemented properly, would probably make them highly unbalanced).

Both have pros and cons, obviously.

Babylon 5 as an "Empire" would throw the timeline off kilter, since it could be said to have been around since space travel first became possible. This is the most obvious con, but one that I feel could be overlooked. Like the Vorlons and Shadows, population growth would be next to nothing. However, fortunately for Bablon 5, they would be in orbit around The Great Machine, which would be a definite benefit - I was thinking that Babylon 5 could be represented by an actual station in orbit around the planet, and while the planet itself would have several facilities (probably construction), the majority of the work would be done by the station itself, which would be made up of many new components to simulate normal planetside facilities (some examples would be: Red Sector - Organics, Grey Sector - Construction, Yellow Sector - Cargo, Brown Sector - Minerals (mainly from trade)... I could go on), as well as other components that, as well as the more standard parts (weapons, defence grids, cobra bays) could represent ambassadors like G'Kar, Londo, Delenn and Kosh (who would provide Diplomacy Points (which would function like Intel)) - not to mention other famous faces like Garibaldi, Lyta Alexander... I won't bore you with a list of characters, but I think you can see the point I'm getting at.

As for "Diplomacy points" - they were another idea I had, since Babylon 5 really isn't the sort of empire to be sneaky as their goal is obviously peace. So, you'd have a host of B5-specific Intel techs to open up, which would tamper with relations (not sure if this is possible yet), open up new trade routes, set limits on people being naughty (mass drivers, anyone?), diplomatic espionage and more. With options for rangers, ships from different empires, and technology from Epsilon 3, there'd be plenty of stuff to keep the player busy, especially in a multiplayer RP scenario.

Of course, as I said, the other option would be to add Babylon 5 technology to EA, which would probably totally unbalance them. I much prefer the empire idea, personally. Either way, though, it'd be a shame to miss out on Babylon 5 itself in the finish product, right?

Diplomacy
I'd also propose a seperate Intel tech purely for Diplomatic actions, since, again, I feel that a lot of the flavour of Babylon 5 comes from the politics involved, as well as the intrigue and the various wars. These wouldn't be quite the same as the Babylon 5-specific techs, but could be fun. I also think it would be great to tamper with the general diplomatic model (the message thing) to flesh it out a little more as far as treaties and the like go, but again, I haven't looked into that too deeply yet.

Would anyone be interested in either or both of these ideas, or do they suck?

Atrocities

June 9th, 2004, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Atrocities: Go ahead if you want. What are your long term plans for the mod? Right now it seems a bit bloated. 70 megs of files, mostly sounds, such. This mod is way to big for most people to dial up and download.

Rambie

June 9th, 2004, 05:39 AM

Goatfoam, your ideas are interesting. However, there is only so much you can MOD in SE4. I'm not sure you can do what you suggest with SE4.

Besides, the pic of B5 is part of the EA shipset. The EA needs to research Base Construction to get to the level to build a B5 type station.

Rambie

pathfinder

June 9th, 2004, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Atrocities:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pathfinder:
Atrocities: Go ahead if you want. What are your long term plans for the mod? Right now it seems a bit bloated. 70 megs of files, mostly sounds, such. This mod is way to big for most people to dial up and download. <hr /></blockquote>I have no long term plans. My part is done.

Goatfoam

June 9th, 2004, 10:56 AM

Rambie: You're right, yeah. Also, the other point that was raised about the mod being huge already is another good one.

I'm still interested in making a more diplomacy-based game, though, so I'm going to have a play with it and see if anything can be done. It might be best to do it as a single player "scenario" type thing, with modded techs, races and facilities. But I'll see if it's possible first - I'm sure fiddling about with the Anger AI/Intel could produce at least some results, but probably only in a specific scenario type game. Anyway, we'll see.

gregebowman

June 9th, 2004, 10:32 PM

Long story, but I finally started playing the mod this past Sunday. Wow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif I'm impressed. Great work, to all those involved. Unfortunately, we're having thunderstorms in the evenings this week, so I really haven't had the chance to play it very long. But I'll keep on playing it when I can.

Timstone

June 10th, 2004, 06:10 PM

Thunderstorms? Does that really bothers you?
I have a huge array of condensators in my backyard. Any powersurge from lightning is instantly converted to heat with which I heat my sauna. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Raging Deadstar

June 10th, 2004, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Timstone:
Thunderstorms? Does that really bothers you?
I have a huge array of condensators in my backyard. Any powersurge from lightning is instantly converted to heat with which I heat my sauna. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Such technology is Not Human!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

You've been meddling with that dam gearbox havn't you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Dammit you Dutchman! First you flaunt in the face of the laws of what works for a society, then the laws of Not sinking when your country is below sea level and Now you defy the Laws of Physics!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif When will it end??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 10, 2004, 17:23: Message edited by: Raging Deadstar ]

gregebowman

June 10th, 2004, 06:56 PM

Timstone

June 11th, 2004, 04:25 PM

Grege:
Ok, that is a good enough explanation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RD:
"It is I the great defyer!" (hope that's not a typo...)
"I'll never stop breaking/bending the laws, coz I'm powered by Duracel... like the bunny!"
How's life treating you nowadays?

[ June 11, 2004, 15:26: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Nomor

June 12th, 2004, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Remember, GAMEPLAY trumps REALISM and CANONISM any day. I read an interesting paper by Robert M. Zubrin (Pioneer Astronautics) and Christopher P. McKay ( NASA Ames Research Center.) on the Technological Requirements for Terraforming Mars and found a very interesting section on Moving Ammonia Asteroids. http://www.Users.globalnet.co.uk/~mfogg/

The purpose of such an exercise would be to import Greenhouse gases to Mars to assist the melting of it's frozen water reserves and create an atmosphere more suitable for human activity.

"Consider an asteroid made of frozen ammonia with a mass of 10 billion tonnes orbiting the sun at a distance of 12 AU. Such an object, if spherical, would have a diameter of about 2.6km and changing its orbit to intersect Saturn's (where it could get a trans-Mars gravity assist) would require a DV of 0.3 km/s."

It involved collecting asteroids of approx 2.6 km in diameter from the outer solar system and using nuclear thermal rocket engines to heat some of its ammonia up to 2200 K (Kelvin). This would produce an exhaust velocity of 4 km/s, which would allow them to move the asteroid onto its required course using only 8% of its material as propellant. Ten years of steady thrusting would be required, followed by a about a 20 year coast to impact. (This is based on current NASA technology.)

On impact with Mars enough energy would be released to melt a lake 140 km wide and 50 meters deep. In addition, the ammonia released by a single such object would raise the planet's temperature by about 3 degrees centigrade and form a shield that would effectively mask the planet's surface from ultraviolet radiation.

Forty such missions would double the nitrogen content of Mars' atmosphere by direct importation, and could produce much more if some of the asteroids were targeted to hit beds of nitrates, which they would volatilise into nitrogen and oxygen upon impact. If one such mission were launched per year, within half a century http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif or so most of Mars would have a temperate climate, and enough water would have been melted to cover a quarter of the planet with a layer of water 1 m deep.

Humans could not breath the air of the thus transformed Mars, but they would no longer require space suits and instead could travel freely in the open wearing ordinary clothes and a simple SCUBA type breathing gear. However because the outside atmospheric pressure will have been raised to human tolerable levels, it will be possible to have large habitable areas for humans under huge domelike inflatable tents containing breathable air.

Activating the Martian hydrosphere in a timely fashion will require doing some violence to the planet, and , as discussed above, one way this can be done is with targeted asteroidal impacts. Each such impact releases the energy equivalent of 10 TW-yrs. If Plowshare* methods of shock treatment for Mars are desired, then the use of such projectiles is certainly to be preferred to the alternative option of detonation of hundreds of thousands of thermonuclear explosives. After all, even if so much explosive could be manufactured, its use would leave the planet unacceptably radioactive. ( *peaceful use of nuclear explosions for industrial applications )

Mars as it is now has a CO2 atmosphere that is only about 1% the pressure of the Earth's at sea level and would require a space suit similar to those used for the moon landings and space walks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

It is clear from the Babylon 5 series that Mars has had some work done to it for Garibaldi, the Doc and Lyta Alexander to be able to run around in Eskimo suits and fireman's masks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

So Mars Terraforming can now be considered cannon. How having jumpgates and mile long Agamemnon's would improve/speed up these tasks is debatable.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Perhaps war and politics got in the way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

This should allow the Atmospheric Adjusters back into the Mod and consequently the other Planetary Improvement "Facilities". Whilst it may be said that these are processes more that facilities that can be changed simply by having a different picture to represent the chosen option. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

In my test mod using a "tax" of -500 rads per turn I was able to have a dozen or more planets undergoing Atmospheric Adjustment and still conduct a War on several fronts. I set them to be constructed in 4 or 5 turns by a planet of 500 million and to convert in 20 yrs or 200 turns. This of course made the planets inhospitable and reduced the mineral values, but that would be in keeping. One can assume that a inhospitable O2 planet is one that is still requiring domed habitats but at a reduced cost and quality that will eventually be dispensed with as further improvements are made.

Sorry it's a bit wordy... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 12, 2004, 06:29: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Fyron

June 12th, 2004, 08:22 AM

Refer to the post you quoted. Seriously... screw realism. 200 turns is far, far too long, especially if you want this to be an option in multiplayer games... Very few of those ever Last 200 turns.

Fyron

June 12th, 2004, 06:23 PM

I think going to a more stock level of SY production from pop values for planets is a must. They can be some what slower for low pop worlds, like maybe 50% production, but that is it. Lower makes the game horrible unfun.

Also, bringing Atmospheric Converters down to, say, 30-20 turns, as in stock SE4, would be better. Even 50 turns would be pushing it...

People that want slow converters in their SP games can modify them accordingly. We can even provide a duplicate file that just has the convereters being slow. Same with Settings.txt for the horridly slow pop bonus system.

[ June 12, 2004, 17:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Nomor

June 13th, 2004, 01:21 AM

I agree, but I was trying to get things down from 600 turns conVersion time , plus construction time of a similar amount as per current Mod settings, which means conVersion wouldn't happen even in a single player game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

However it would be nice if we could all put some time tables in the hat to see what we find acceptable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was really quoting you in response to Grumblers comments on Atmosphere Adjusters and canonism. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 13, 2004, 02:12: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Ragnarok-X

June 13th, 2004, 09:58 AM

i have to agree with Fyron once again. Right now the game is way to slow, and the changes he suggested will make it "faster".

Right now its even to slow for singleplayer imho.

Atrocities

June 13th, 2004, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
i have to agree with Fyron once again. Right now the game is way to slow, and the changes he suggested will make it "faster".

Right now its even to slow for singleplayer imho. I too agree if my $0.02 cents are worth much.

PvK

June 13th, 2004, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I think going to a more stock level of SY production from pop values for planets is a must. They can be some what slower for low pop worlds, like maybe 50% production, but that is it. Lower makes the game horrible unfun.
...You could make a "fast" Version that is more like unmodded SE4.

However, Fryon just basically doesn't like slow development as a matter of taste, and frequently Posts things like it's just "horrible unfun". Not all of us agree.

I, and some other players, actually enjoy games with slower development. It's not just a matter of "unfun" or "slow" but of what the game is about. Games with Proportions construction rates ARE NOT ABOUT TURNING THE WHOLE GALAXY INTO HOMEWORLD CLONES. They are about conflict between fleets. Combat and ship construction can be rapid enough in Proportions. Colonization and turning all planets from acid-covered boiling swamps into homeworld clones in a year or two is just not what the game is about.

If you make a PBW game where there is tons of uninhabited space between everyone, though, there may be little reason for conlfict. It can be tricky to get the desired density.

I recall that the reason for using Proportions as a foundation for this mod was that it matched the Babylon 5 situation better. I'm not a B5 fan myself, but I understand that throughout the series Earth is pretty much the only fully-developed Terran planet, and the colonies are minor outPosts by comparison. That's the effect you get in Proportions.

If you just want to use B5 stuff but in a SE4 style galaxy-remodelling game, ya a fast-building Version would make sense.

Perhaps there could even be two Versions (Slow Facilities and Fast Facilities), and the fast Version could be used to create scenarios with appropriate density quickly, with the game switching to use the slow Version of the mod when it was ready for a detailed conflict (if desired).

Then one or more scenarios could be developed perhaps with the non-humans getting a head start from distant homeworlds, and then the scenario having goals for the Terrans of survival, and holding on to their surrounding systems. The aliens would have larger and more developed empires and technologies, but their homeworld and strong colonies would be so far away that it would be somewhat difficult for them to dominate the space right near Earth (because they would have other parts of their empire to defend, and their remote construction bases would be perhaps slower and more expensive).

That kind of scenario isn't really possible in a game with economics (facility speed) like unmodded SE4, because in SE4 the larger empire simply oveewhelms the smaller empire by volume of everything, since practically any colony can be fully developed as good as a homeworld, or better, in 10-30 turns, so size = almost everything.

PvK

Ragnarok-X

June 13th, 2004, 08:03 PM

somehow i have to agree with PvK, too.
I have to admit i like it more "realistic" BUT too much realism = no fun. I dont like if it takes 10 turns just to build a minor city which in the end gives about no benefits. Then again i dont like if im possible to transport half of my homeworlds population on other planets just to see that that my homeworld is filles another 10 turns later.

Anyway: gameplay OVER realism. Why dont we somehow balance it out ?

Fyron

June 13th, 2004, 09:42 PM

I recall that the reason for using Proportions as a foundation for this mod was that it matched the Babylon 5 situation better. Actually... this mod was started a while before Gold came out, so it was not based on Proportions. Convergent evolution. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When a mod requires 600 turns to complete a game, it is bad for PBW use, except in those rare circumstances when you can get people able to play 20 turns a day. I never said it has to be the same speed as stock SE4. Just changing the pop bonuses and atmosphere conVersion times still leaves it much slower than stock, as the facilities tend to still be very expensive.

I, and some other players, actually enjoy games with slower development. There is nothing wrong with slower development, for single player games. But when it comes to PBW, too much slower than stock hurts the game. Not everyone wants to spend 5 years on the same game.

Perhaps there could even be two Versions (Slow Facilities and Fast Facilities)... That would be the best solution. Sort of how Pirates and Nomads mod is. Except that the PBW Version is the one with really slow build rates with low pop values...

[ June 13, 2004, 20:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

PvK

June 14th, 2004, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I recall that the reason for using Proportions as a foundation for this mod was that it matched the Babylon 5 situation better. Actually... this mod was started a while before Gold came out, so it was not based on Proportions. Convergent evolution. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<hr /></blockquote>No, B5 mod started before Gold, but after whoever was in charge at the time saw Proportions, they asked me if they could take things from the economics and so on, because the more realistic development speed matched B5.

When a mod requires 600 turns to complete a game, it is bad for PBW use, except in those rare circumstances when you can get people able to play 20 turns a day. I never said it has to be the same speed as stock SE4. Just changing the pop bonuses and atmosphere conVersion times still leaves it much slower than stock, as the facilities tend to still be very expensive.
It still sounds like you're not noticing what I said. Proportions games do not have to go 600 turns. They just can go that long and still remain interesting and have things going on, whereas an unmodded game tends to run out of techs and un-maxed planets much sooner. JLS' LAN group used to finish a game in a day or two (and not very many turns). That's because they weren't trying to play it like unmodded SE4, where you expect to reasearch all the best stuff and colonize an entire quadrant before the game is over. They were playing it like a wargame, which is more appropriate, and much faster (especially in a quadrant without many systems). The game can be "over" for a player as soon as their homeworld gets permanently blockaded, and that can actually be accomplished faster than in the unmodded game, in many cases, because the homeworld provides a good income, ship/base construction, and research rate from turn 1.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I, and some other players, actually enjoy games with slower development. There is nothing wrong with slower development, for single player games. But when it comes to PBW, too much slower than stock hurts the game. Not everyone wants to spend 5 years on the same game.
<hr /></blockquote>Not pleasing everyone and hurting the game aren't the same thing. Especially if you set up a small game and play to win rather than to build fully developed planets from scratch, or to exhaust the tech tree.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Perhaps there could even be two Versions (Slow Facilities and Fast Facilities)... That would be the best solution. Sort of how Pirates and Nomads mod is. Except that the PBW Version is the one with really slow build rates with low pop values... <hr /></blockquote>Yep! Especially if you can switch back and forth between them - Fast mode for peace time and to set up scenarios, then switch to slow mode when you're ready for a war.

PvK

PvK

Fyron

June 14th, 2004, 02:16 AM

I remember seeing slow development in B5 Mod before Gold came out... maybe it was a beta tester that saw Proportions during the Gold beta and asked you about it?

I did read what you said, and it does not affect my statements about PBW usage at all. LAN Groups are not akin to PBW in any possible way. I am not talking about isolated LAN Groups, but about PBW play. In PBW, you rarely get more than a turn per day. Maybe two or three in the early game, if you are lucky. Proportions, AIC, B5, etc. take far longer to play to completion than stock SE4. 600 turns is obviously a hyperbole. With the beta test PBW game we did of B5 Mod, it stopped around turn 140, when RCEs killed it. There was very little progress towards reaching the end game stages. It could easily have gone on for another 2 years before it was over.

Aiken

June 14th, 2004, 02:41 AM

Fyron, probably you simply can't imagine late stage of pbw game (>100 turns) without maxed tech and hundreds of planets under your control? Then it's just a dogma which can be thrown away. I sure that you can have interesting and fun pbw game (and not Lasting for eternity) even without a fleet of 300 Mega Dreadnoughts armed with Hyper APB XXII and Super Phased Shields XV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Fyron

June 14th, 2004, 02:51 AM

That has nothing to do with it... the development and build up stages necessary to get usable fleets is too long. The game doesn't have to have as many ships, have 100s of planets, nor reach the end of the tech tree, but it also doesn't need to take forever to reach resolution. In a galaxy with 100 systems (shudder at the thought of more...), it takes way too long before the game reaches the stage that war can be waged succesfully and the game can end. 80 turns for a spaceport facility without depleting your HW is excessive... and that is not a made up number in B5 Mod.

PvK

June 14th, 2004, 05:10 PM

Ok, well those are two different issues.

1) In Proportions, it is quite possible to resolve a game quickly, if the players build fleets and go to war, rather than trying to colonize the galaxy and climb the whole tech tree first. "LAN Groups are not akin to PBW in any possible way."? Gimme a break. They are different ways of playing the same game, and they are very much akin in terms of the number of turns required to do something. Yes LAN and PBW are different in some ways, but turn lengths are the same, and the turn lengths were my point. The main advantage JLS' LAN game had over PBW games you were and I were both in is that they could talk to each other in person and they wanted to get into the action right away, so they did. While in the Proportions games you and I were both in, we had large numbers of systems to explore and colonize, and players were learning the mod and roleplaying relatively peaceful races, rather than fighting a war on a smaller map.

2) I haven't tried B5 mod. Given how much you exaggerated other things, I don't know what to make of your "80 turns for a spaceport facility without depleting your HW" example, but that would seem like a lot, I agree. Certainly a lot more severe than Proportions.

As for the non-point about my off-hand remark about people asking to use Proportions stuff in B5... my memory is whoever seemed to be in charge at the time expressed enthusiasm for Proportions
stuff after Proportions came out, and asked if they could base things on it, and that later in this thread, people were talking of it as if they had used and adapted several things from Proportions. If you enjoy thinking that I mis-remember that, go ahead, or go a hundred or so pages back and read up on it. I know I'm not interested enough to look for it.

PvK