Babylon 5 Mod

[Val]

I must be smoking something, I have not yet posted 1.49.32.

But, the adjustments to 1.49.32 will be pretty much graphics, so we should be able to forge ahead without any issues.

[ October 09, 2002, 00:55: Message edited by: Val ]

[Timstone]

Hey, I'm from Holland, I could supply you with some pot if you'd like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Lighthorse]

Val

Have the infantry and ground support vehicle morale Ratings been changed yet?
If not, wouldn't it be better if morale was researched for each level. Everyone starts with militia grade infantry. Researching (ie training ) can increase infantry morale level, increase type of weapons and armor that could be use for either infantry and ground support. There would be five to six levels of research before one would reach elite grade.

I'm also rechecking the research list for the Narn Regime with 1.49.31/B5 mod, given all the additional research changes, should be done within a week or so.

Lighthorse

[ October 10, 2002, 02:56: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[AGoetz]

On the subject of Infantry and Vehicles - which are better for various purposes?
Would 75 Infantry equipped with Elite Infantry Matter Guns and Light Armor defeat 6 Heavy Vehicles equipped with Elite Versions of your preferred fighter weapon and armor to fill the gaps (I think I got the total tonnage to match)? Which would improve morale on a planet more?

Under the current system - why would you build anything other than Elite troops?

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: IMHO it isn't the morale of the planet so much but the sudden inlux of elite barbarians (ie enemy GROPOS) that is the problem...the ground support vehicles do help with that aspect of the game alot! they seem (not that I looked that hard at it) to be no difference in the planet morale boost part...

[Val]

Yeah, I do want to link troop experience/training to research. I thought in Gold there was a way to link Mounts to tech level researched, yes? That was the original goal of that. Plus, the Elites are a bit more on the expensive side, if you want to throw bodies on a backwater world, militia will often do.

All that being said, I do expect infantry / vehicles to be going through a MAJOR overhaul. I just ordered the B5 Gropos (discontinued) game, which has weapons for the major race's ground troops and vehicles. I'll be using that the same way I used AoG's B5 Wars Ship books to make a balanced system of weapons based on their 'cannon' (excuse the pun) material. I will also redo the research (as proposed) so that you will need to research levels of tech for the various areas, not just weapons and armor and vehicle sizes. I will also try to find creative ways to use the current combat system to our advantage. - like, I wonder if I gave certain troop types the 'armor' ability would they be hit first in the group, or does it just apply to the stack or what? Also, maybe give AA guns the 'Damage Engine' (or some other type) ability and make all flyers have their component include the engine statistic. This way AA guns will take out the ground troop's support flyers first. What do y'all think?

[pathfinder]

Val: The Pak-redo looks great! As for the infantry rules...better thee than me trying to untangle the abilities and such *shudder*. Would be nice though....

[Val]

PF
Glad you like what you see so far, though all I really did was take your DoGA files and do a little recolour job, along with a few perspective changes. Also added those outrider pods to the colony ship (as most other vessels had something of the sort. I never realized how similar their ships are to the Hyach! I'll send the finished products to you for your approval, then do the same with the Abbai. As you already did all the hard work, this is going much quicker;) Did you get the Gropos stuff in your B5 AoG library?

[Val]

The next patch is going to be a bit on the large side, Simon sent me some incredible BMPs fpr various events, intel and facilities. Then there are the new shipsets coming for the Abbai and Pak'ma'ra (thanks to PF), some new components and system graphics (possibly a jumpgate animation that Timstone is working on as well) The facilities will be getting a mini face lift and the Ancients will finally be getting their own! (Technomages and Soul Hunters will have their own special facilities as well, Place of Power and Whisper Gallery - respectively speaking. Simon, got anything good for a Technomage Place of Power?). I am also working on some of the unique tech area components.

[Val]

Sorry, Last post for now -

Quick question for everyone, would y'all prefer I just post what I have so far for 1.49.32 before we start the PBW (and hold the extra graphics until the .33 patch) or do you want me to wait to finish with all the graphics and post it together?

The one big advantage of the .32 is that Fyron can use the new B5 Standard quadrant to produce a B5 race friendly galaxy (since almost all races are O2 rock worlders). The other advantage is a few minor changes in the facilities - such as removing the construction ability from the colony and homeworld hubs so the Space Yards work properly (though it is still part of a manufacturing hub). Also fixed a few typos and suchnot.

Let me know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

How long would it be before the graphics would be ready?

[AGoetz]

I've been trying .31 with as many of the races put into the active directory as will currently work, no neutral players, hardest AI, highest AI boost.
As soon as I put Ship Capture components on my ships I become effectively unbeatable (went up 12 tech levels in one turn from analysing ships).
What, apart from the security component, protects from boarding parties?

Also : Val just got your email. I wouldn't mind getting .32 as it currently is so that I can try the changes you've put in it. As long as the map generator does leave some Hydrogen worlds for the Gaim I'll be happy (might even have to co-exist with others - http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[Fyron]

Self Destruct Devices work wonders. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

Ship capture is a good way to get techs, but the only real ways to defend (that I know of) is Security stations, self destruct and knocking you out of the air before you get close enough. The Gaim are insane boarders!

The graphics will take some time (as I will be driving back to PA this weekend to drop some stuff off at home), but can be easily updated and added in without much impact on the game in progress.

[Val]

This is what is done in the current patch so far:

1.49.32 - Fixed typos in Racial Text and Tech Areas. Added details to Technomage General file. Added 4 HyperSpace System Pics (128x128, 1024x768 & 800X600). Fixed a few minor AI errors. Added new Quadrant and System types (B5 Standard) that are geared towards the mod. Fixed error in VehicleDesign file. Added preliminary open/close jump gate sequences. Added new specialty Gaim components, new Crew Quarters for the major races (art to follow). Added special self destruct for Ancients and Technomagi.

[Val]

Graphics in process -

Pak'ma'ra, Gaim and Abbai shipsets.

Components (including the infamous Molecular Pulsar).

Facilities (many of these).

Event and Intel Pics (a bunch of these as well).

More changes to interface.

Space Station (based on Ring/Sphereworld idea).

Maybe add a few more special systems pics (like Hyperspace)

Jump Gate open/close animation.

I think that's it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Any requests?

[ October 10, 2002, 07:54: Message edited by: Val ]

[Val]

Data file adjustments in progress:

Facilities - Ancient/Racial specific, Unique specific and Atmospheric modifiers.

More racial unique components (eg: Gaim Bulkheads, Abbai Shields and Hyach Targeting CPUs).

Crew components (eg: Chief Technician).

Space Stations based on Ringworld/Sphereworld concept, so you can put facilities on them.

More ship Enhancement components.

More Intel projects (including Covert Support).

More Events (Zathras needs an event for himself, and I need a Zathras pic if Simon is lurking).

Gravitic weapons (mostly Brakiri).

Add at least one basic weapon in each class so races get at least something for their research.

Changing the VehicleText to include Prototype and Advanced ship designs.

Shadow/Vorlon assisted tech ships.

Make the Nomadic races usable.

Drakh race.

Add in the other unique techs.

Fix Ancient Mid range Engines.

Fighter weapons (will be modded as we see how bad/good the current ones are in the test).

Complete Infantry/Troops revision.

Continued upgrade of AI.

Continued updates of General description files.

Was also thinking about adding a 'mini' planet with a wrecked ship pic to use as a randomly placed derelict ship that you can 'colonize' (ie: send a scientific research team) to get tech. It just won't be able to hold any facilities. It would be like a ruins planet but have a spaceship pic instead.

Did I miss anything?

Any requests here?

[ October 10, 2002, 07:58: Message edited by: Val ]

[Fyron]

Ancient medium (and maybe heavy) reactors.

Are the "Ancient Ship" components supposed to be allowable on bases? Cause I can put them on a base and get negative maintanence costs. I don't know if that is a feature or an oversight.

[Val]

Initially an oversite, but left in for now as a means of letting the Ancients generate more resources. We'll see if it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Timstone]

Jumpgate: Under construction. A bit delayed, coz I have to do my homework like a good boy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Armor: Why is heavy armor better than light armor. The way I see it is that heavy armor is inferior to light armor. Why? Well, light Armor has more armor per tonnage than heavy armor.

Reactor: Everything larger that light reactor (doesn't matter wich type) sucks big time. Why? The light reactors have the highest energy output per tonnage. Isn't this all wrong, that way the larger reactors become completely useless. More reasearch for worse reactors.

[pathfinder]

Val, RE AoG: Yeah, really like the books. The Drazi will be SOOoooo easy now that I did a Gaim ship (bought or salvaged from the Drazi). Seems the Drazi have basically 1-2 ship styles. Gaim should should be done this week-end with Drazi very close behind.

[Suicide Junkie]

Armor: Why is heavy armor better than light armor. The way I see it is that heavy armor is inferior to light armor. Why? Well, light Armor has more armor per tonnage than heavy armor.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Light armor does has more hitpoints, but it also has a lower chance of blocking any one particular hit.

If you design two otherwise equal ships, and put heavy armor on one, and light armor on the other, the light ship you can see the difference.

The light ship has 6000 hitpoints, and the heavy ship has 4000 hitpoints.
But, the heavy ship wins 2/3rds or more of the time.

Why? The light ship's armor is breached more often, it loses its weapons, and proceeds to be beaten into a pulp.

Also, the heavy armor is much easier to repair after combat, since you need much fewer components to protect a ship.

[Val]

PF
Yeah, I have a few DoGA Gaim ships that I did for their Neutral shipset, plus I have their Centauri and EA hulls. I also have the color sets for DoGA already, so once you send me the DoGA files it will be easy to bring them in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The books are a big big help!

Timstone
Reactors - I think there is a natural progression, each progressively larger Reactor should be better. I will recheck all reactors, I had only heard of the Ancients having an issue with reactors, I thought the others were ok (a balanced progression).
Homework should always come first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 10, 2002, 18:12: Message edited by: Val ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Val:
Initially an oversite, but left in for now as a means of letting the Ancients generate more resources. We'll see if it works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, then I supposes there won't be a problem if I happen to build 2000 star bases over the Vorlon HW? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

hmmm, maybe not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif OR maybe we make ancient starbases more expensive to build so there is more of a comitment in resources to then create resources? Or make a dedicated type for it. Opinions? Could do this for all races, just make the values different.

[Val]

So, question still remains, should I post 1.49.32 patch now or not? It does work with all current 1.49.31 empires.

[Timstone]

Post the .32 now, then we start with our conquest of the galaxy the Babylon 5 way!

If I can find time for it, I will make the animation tomorrow. I don't mind if it isn't in the .32 release. There will always be .33. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

SJ: Thanks for the clearification.

[ October 10, 2002, 21:12: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Re: Armor.

Another strategy for combat would be to build a few light armor ships, or ones that have extreme structural reinforcement.

That way, your enemies may get distracted, and keep pumping round after round of plasma, missiles and various other implements of destruction into the decoy hulk while your real warships dig into their flank!

[Phoenix-D]

"That way, your enemies may get distracted, and keep pumping round after round of plasma, missiles and various other implements of destruction into the decoy hulk while your real warships dig into their flank!"

This is where the "damage percent" strategy comes in handy.

Phoenix-D

[Suicide Junkie]

Yep, but then, if they lower the damage percent too far in order to deal with your decoys, they might not actually disable your warships before they switch targets http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

In any event, there are bound to be lots of cripples on the winning side, which is a very nice effect.

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by Val:
So, question still remains, should I post 1.49.32 patch now or not? It does work with all current 1.49.31 empires.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes please post it now.

Oh have you done anything to the pulse weapon tech as before it was kind of not as good as laser tech and it takes more research. (laser weapons need physics 2 and laser weapons tech, Pulse weapons need physics 2, particle AND pulse tech). Also pulse weapons take more room. BUT do have one less reload time (3 compared with laser's 4).

Just what i've noticed as an avid Earth Alliance goodie goodie. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

I'll lower the Combo laser/pulse weapon weights (as I originally intended) but the upkeep/maint will be statying the same or increasing (they are described as very high Maint).

I'll try to post 1.49.32 by tomorrow night.

[Nomor]

Val:
So, question is , should send you what I have on Zathras now or should I crop and bmp them first?
I have 8 or 9 plus an Alwyn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Val]

Alwyn too? Amazing!

Go ahead and bmp/crop to 128x128, it'll save some time. We'll go for the non-letterbox, that has been looking better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks!

[Nomor]

Val: Too late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif already in your mailbox, but let me know...time for bed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[jimbob]

Val: Re email.
I have so much spam in my inbox that I accidentally erased your Last email (one of those "see it right as it's deleted" experiences). would you mind sending it again?

Thanks

[Val]

Jimbob
I think I was just asking your opinion on whether to send out 1.49.32 before we started the PBW or not, I think... it is a little late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All
Ok, here is the 1.49.32 update

b5modupdate149-32.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1034316176.zip)

It includes:

1.49.32 - Fixed typos in Racial Text and Tech Areas. Added details to Technomage General file and new Race Portrait. Added 4 HyperSpace System Pics (128x128, 1024x768 & 800X600). Fixed a few minor AI errors. Added new Quadrant and System types (B5 Standard) that are geared towards the mod races, making a more B5 friendly universe. Fixed errors in VehicleDesign file. Added preliminary open/close jump gate sequences. Added new specialty Gaim ship control components, new Crew Quarters for the major races (art to follow). Added special self destruct for Ancients and Technomagi. Added 2 new Unique Ruins Techs (Ancient Atmospheric Adjuster & Unique Ship Type). Added new facility and corresponding tech, Atmospheric Adjuster. Added new Intel project 'Release Contagion' and several new Intel/Event graphics.

Atmospheric conVersion takes a long, long time.

[AGoetz]

I have two things to say so far :

Any race that I'm at war with had better have Security details/Self destructs on their ships - those Gaim boarding parties make normal ones look weak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I thought that the standard games' 2-3 years to change an atmosphere felt long - 20 years if you have the Ancient Version, 40-60 years without ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Val]

Gaim infantry will be pretty rough too, after the revision. Yeah the Atmosphere conVersion takes quite some time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Timstone]

PF: Wow, nice odds, I wich I could handle a computer opponent with those odds. Impressive.
Yeah, I know I'm a biut of a rooky...

Val: I mailed you the reactor changes.

[pathfinder]

Timstone: Hehe, I was the one who got handled...hehe. The darn Grome had allied with the Narn and Minbari and I had to fight my way thru them to get to the Grome planet I had invaded (reinforce the PBI [poor bloody infantry])...was an interesting war...

[Suicide Junkie]

Question since this is neostandard shipset: what is the nameing convention if I want to do a variant as say heavy destroyer or scout?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The convention only applies to the filenames.

So if you are modding, you can use any of the names specified.
If you are making a Shipset, create as many as you like, and then my Neoshipsetbuilder can fill in the gaps.

[pathfinder]

SJ: So if I want to specify a particular model as the Heavy Destroyer it would like: Gaim_Portrait_destroyerheavy?

[Suicide Junkie]

Yep. Just don't forget the mini http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Kewl enuf! Thankee suh!
I just may have some modeling fun with a couple of the races, like the Gaim (maybe the EA if ya'll don't mind)

[ October 11, 2002, 17:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[The Canuck]

cool beans with all the updates...but, since i am going to be the raiders in the PBW game, are there going to be any additions to their shipset before the game starts cause they have basically nothin. just wondering. oh ya also i have an idea or 2 about ships u could use for the raiders, old EA ships, and other old ships, like 50 years old designs of the EA's, maybe dilgar war era ships? just to fill in a few larger ship slots. and finally im makin my emp file for the PBW gam and was wonderin what traits i should give the raiders, like are they nomadic or standard? well thats it. wow, i just wanted to ask one question and i just keep on typin...

[pathfinder]

Canuk, I'll make some up tonight....probably still won't be a full set, but at least there will be more there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'll be using the AoG books to make what I can.

For now standard, Nomadic traits aren't finished yet.

[ October 11, 2002, 20:23: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

PF - Don't worry too much about a 'complete' Raider shipset, their set is going to be a bit more unique (like the Technomage's) in that their progression will be different and not need a full set. If you like, just make the ones in the AoG books and we'll assign them from there.

Nomads are still not quite right, have to do a few more edits.

[pathfinder]

Ya...I'll email you the DOGA stuff Val. Done what I could, hehe...

[pathfinder]

Oh bother....now 2 races that are tough to kill off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Gaim and Grome both are like the weeds in my yard, ya never really get rid of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I tried invading the Grome one time...I never, even after 20 game-years finished that. I had to keep feeding in troops, but always kept a draw in ground combat.

[Timstone]

Ouch, that must hurt. Well, keep trying mister, they eventually collapse.

Val: I'm rebalancing the reactors. I'll send it to you when it is done, should be within the next 3 hours. Tell me what you think of the new balances (when you got them).

[pathfinder]

Timstone: I did not give any bonuses and only medium difficulty to the AI plus used "only" 200 vetern rated infantry (thinking I didn't want to be too "bad"...HA!)...never again, especially against the Grome...600-700 elite rated infantry III with best weapon & body armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif plus ground support (tanks!) are what MIGHT take those buggers out...

Hehe, ask the Narn about invading the Gaim Homeworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val: I should finish the Gaim tonight...or what I am doing to fill-the-gaps...weapon platforms, re-do of battlecruiser, battleship, cruiser, light cruiser, frigate done. Also added colony ship, escort, satellite, carrier, heavy fighter. have rest of carriers and mines to do. and btw, use or not or re-do as you please ...I just enjoy making them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 11, 2002, 13:07: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Question since this is neostandard shipset: what is the nameing convention if I want to do a variant as say heavy destroyer or scout?

[pathfinder]

Hmmm....Da path ponders...

Drazi or Hurr? Lort? next...

[Nomor]

Val: found a Homunculus. Done some more bmp's. will send asap. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif ..and Shadow Central...
and Places of Power. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 12, 2002, 04:14: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[killer]

Anyone.
Is there an upgrade for the B5 mod for SEIV gold out yet?

killer out

[pathfinder]

Killer: Nope, no upgrade for the Gold (aka PDF's).

[Timstone]

Val: What do you think of the reactor changes? Please, tell me. Which one are you going to use (or stay with the old ones)?

[pathfinder]

Val: Me like them purty, new event pics. Ah STILL detest the events but them pictures is purty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[killer]

Grrrrrr! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Nomor]

Val: You have Mail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif .... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Zzzzzz

[ October 13, 2002, 08:55: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Nomor]

Val: Your b5mod@yahoo.com account is over quota. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Some of my zips have failed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[mlmbd]

Numor,

mine isn't, just e-mail away!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[pathfinder]

What Color scheme (simple one) for the Llort?

Tried my hand with the Brakiri *shudder* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif can't get the curves right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Got something together for the Gaim and Drazi....

The Hurr, very few models available...so probably only a coupla uniques, rest will be from generic set... Markab have more but again no full set...

[ October 14, 2002, 03:29: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Rats...just when things are getting interesting an RCE by the EA....guess I step up to testing and see what the heck Sheridan and crew are up to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Val]

Nomor
Sorry 'bout the mailbox filling up, left for PA on Friday to start moving some stuff back home and only just got back this morning (and straight back to work). I will d/l it all tonight and clean out the box. Between you and PF the box fills pretty quick http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Timstone
I saw the E*Mail just before I left on Friday and printed it out to read while stuck in traffic, but the rainstorm kept me awfully busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I did look at it over the weekend, and think I'll be using some of it and adjusting the current costs and values. The whole problem was that originally it was designed totally differently but then not enough power was being generated, so I went back and upped most of the values, though I did some incorrectly. I will fix!

Killer
Sorry, work has had me a little too busy as of late. The really good news though is that we are getting very close to a finished product and will then go Gold.

All
I've got Raider facilities and a bunch of components, they have tested pretty well so far. I am working on the nomadic ships in the Data folder and also the ShagToth and Technomage special facilities for the game as well. Made an adjustment to the settings that makes long range combat a little more viable too.

I have a LOT of stuff in my mailbox, plus doing the once over on the three new races (or is it 4) to get ready to post a new ShipSet update.

Glad y'all like what you see so far and thank you to everyone who has been helping!!! The influx of ideas and graphics have helped to get this mod moving again!

[pathfinder]

RCE (I thimk) is due to an escort carrier (damaged by damaging warp point) doing something in a black hole sector (not sure what, RCE locks b4 I can do any thing).

Val: Once ya get that e-mail box thingy clear, ah got that RCE save game to send plus mebbe some more ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . *scratches haid* what race ships have I sent ya so far...me kinda fergits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Found I can kinda do the Minbari (except Sharlin) or at least some of them...

also except for the Avioki (sp?) and related ships I can do some of the Brakiri...and re-did the satellite a bit

I also re-did the Pak'Ma'Ra spacestation/battlestation/starbase model....more like the Ursh'tal'u now

[ October 14, 2002, 22:39: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

I've got a RCE that I can't track down - what would be the best address to send the save to?

[Val]

AGoetz
Post it here or send to b5mod@yahoo.com, though wait a little bit I am just downloading all the data from the box to make room http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PF
Raiders, Abbai, Gaim, Pak'ma'ra, Drazi - I think that's it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AGoetz]

Will do when I get home - so no rush on emptying that mail box.

[pathfinder]

Val: ah....guess I need to send ya the Llort DOGA stuff, tommorow maybe? and BTW what the heck is their color schemme? I threw (up) a Narn hull thingy with a bump-map on them...hehe, looks like something the cat barfed up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Val]

Ha, can't wait to see it. Not sure of colors for the Llort. I like the Drazi, just have to adjust the color scheme a little.

[Nomor]

Val: You should have more mail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[pathfinder]

and more (Llort and RCE .gam) sent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

hehe, and Val's e-mail runneth over http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Val]

and emptied as quickly!

Nice work guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lighthorse]

Val

Send you an email with attached Narn Research list.
The Narn's Pulsar Mine need a picture and a description to go with it.
I missed designing a space yard with civilian ship maintenance reduction of 90%. They were taking in 500 minials a turn when they weren't producing, but I agree why it should be corrected. By turn 50, I had sixty yards at full production with another thirty yards adding 15K of mineral into the bank. Look mom, no hands, but hereee 15K in minerals.
Oh Well, got to it the hard way now.

Pathfinder, I send you a private message two weeks ago.

Lighthorse

[ October 15, 2002, 03:52: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[AGoetz]

Yeah, I noticed the loss of the Civilian/Corporate(anybody ever build a Corporate?)/Military modifiers to bases. I was going to have two copies of every base, one Civilian, one Military. With only 1 component difference, the Retrofit cost and repair time wouldn't have been a problem.

The enemy is approaching Sol III - the military is authorised to take control of all Orbital Facilites now!

[pathfinder]

A PM? uhm...???

How? where? no notice??!!

Jeeeezzzz.......read and PM'd back Lighthorse.

Is there some kind of notice that ya have a PM (I do not normally check my profile thingy)?

Yeah, I noticed that loss AGoetz...wondered what the heck?!

[ October 15, 2002, 12:11: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

The Civ/Corp/Mil comp on the bases wasn't working as I intended, I am trying out a different component (same family and all for AI purposes) but for bases only. Also adding raider, nomad and other ones.

[Jamorobo]

Well i've started up a new game as EA (what's new there then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) with 3 planets to start with and it's now turn 110. I've had a look at the main races and this is what i've found....

1. Abbai are researching Gas colonisation i'm not sure but i don't think they should be researching this till Last! They are however doing quite well against the narns at the mo as they started about 2 sectors away from each other and have been battling each other from the start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

2. The narns are not using their race specific weapons. They have enery mines up to level 3 and ion torpedos up to level 7 but they are still happy to use Light laser cannon 2's on their main ships insted???????

3. A general thing about the ai research is that they do not buy weapons quickly, this includes the "general light weapons" etc research so twenty turns in i'm zooming around with killer particle weapons while there still using light bLast cannons. Oh also there not researching combat support over level 1, they are fine with sensors but only go up to level 1 with ECM's.

4. I'm seeing alot of fighter-less carriers flying around.

5. Val- Please, you need to sort out Pulse weapons as they are too costly to research compared to laser weapons and arn't as good overall.

6. Is there anyway to get more than 7 main races in a game when selecting "high" amount of random cpu players.

The babylon 5 setting for the galaxy is very good. Overall the Ai is good, it's just a shame the shadows + vorlons can't do much when played by computer players http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Well i think thats about it, i'll see if i can find anything else.

[Suicide Junkie]

6. Is there anyway to get more than 7 main races in a game when selecting "high" amount of random cpu players. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Settings.txt has entries which define the maximum and minimum number of races for each Category (high, medium, low)

[pathfinder]

Jamorobo: I'll check the Abbai and make sure I pulled all the gas colonization entries out of the Abbai AI_research file. What ships (destroyer, frigate, scout, ??) are using the lasers. Either I missed an entry in the designcreation OR they haven't researched the weapon I chose for that ship-size and are using #2 or #3 choice in AI_designcreation.

No Abbai gas colony research in the file...hmmm...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif Oops...designcreation only has the Narn using lasers........DOH!

[ October 16, 2002, 00:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

I am actually revising the Gas Giant colonies in a big way, instead of actually settling the planet, you will create a gas giant orbital colony that will be much smaller compared to the current gas giants. But, yeah, I don't really think any race should be researching it that early in the game.

Glad the Abbai are holding their own, they should be a mostly defensive AI when they are totally done.

I just got a Narn play-by-play research plan that will become the Narn research queue and we'll make adjustments for the weapons.

We could more combat orient the ai, what does everyone else think?

I thought the empty carrier syndrome was solved?

I am actually working on the pulse and the combination las/pulse stuff, it's just a bit tedious trying to compare it all out and balance it, sorry:(

Glad the galaxy settings are good, I appreciate the feedback, wasn't sure how that would work for people. Have you encountered a Hyperspace sector yet?

The Shadow/Vorlon (or any Ancient) races will get a big boost with the new Ancient Facilities I am working on for the next release. That should give the AI a bonus. I am actually surprised to hear they have done so poorly in your game, in the few tests I ran into them, the Shadows ripped my ships to shreds, I didn't even want to go try to take their world!!!

[pathfinder]

Val: Unfortuneately, I also ran into the "empty carrier" syndrome in my Last game (EA particularly). Thought it was gone but not so. I'll experiment and look at the TDM EA to see what value(s) is used there...

and no hyperspace sector yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 15, 2002, 22:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Thanks!

I know the 'original' B5 AI I posted way way back had working carriers, I'll see what I did there, if I can find 'em.

[AGoetz]

Have you encountered a Hyperspace sector yet?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes. Hyperspace Sector 1, 2, 3 are (as far as I can tell) pretty similar to a standard Nebula in terms of their effects. Hyperspace Sector 4 (the turbulent one) however is something I'm going to hate transversing. Is it just me, or do single ships fair better in one of these than fleets? (I've ships in one that stopped from damage, but no component actually destroyed, while I've had fleets that took damage on every move and usually lost components).

[Fyron]

If the damage is randomly assigned to a component with more structure (hit points) than the system does damage to it, then the damage is ignored. So, say you have a ship with a component with 50 hit points, and the system does 40 damage. If the game randomly selects that 50 HP compnent to be damaged, then the 40 damage does nothing, because ships do not store partial component damage out of combat. Hope that makes sense...

[pathfinder]

Running a quick game as EA with full AI less resupply. 1st Badger escort carrier has 64 light fighters/kamikazes on board (using Last 1.49 TDM EA AI_Construction_vehicles file). *shrug*

[Val]

The first three are pretty much like Nebulea, though I think I raised the cloak level in the one to be a bit higher.

I had originally made #2 turbulant as well with random movement in it, but that was frustrating in the early game. Maybe I will put that back in. I was also adding 'blank' storms that will appear in the Hyperspace sectors to create random pools of instability.

I made another major adjustment, this time to Gas Giants & Colonies. They are a bit easier to research now, but don't yield the massive facility/cargo abundance that standard SE IV gives you. Instead you research orbital colonies which are more on par with Tiny and Small Class planets. They use the planet's atmosphere to recycle the Colony atmosphere, so 'domed' gas giant colonies around non-compatible atmosphere types for your race need more LS systems, hence the less space for facilities or ability to support a larger population. I have new pics for all the Colonies as well.

[ October 16, 2002, 01:19: Message edited by: Val ]

[Val]

I remember a while back there were a few people and mods that made universal colonizers that had all three colony modules in one. Did this have to be put before the other three individual ones or after to make it work?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Val:
I remember a while back there were a few people and mods that made universal colonizers that had all three colony modules in one. Did this have to be put before the other three individual ones or after to make it work?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If placed after them, then every empire gets the universal colony mod tech at the start of the game. If placed before them, then everyone gets the correct colony techs to start with, but the AIs will never use them.

[Val]

If I place it after and make the requirement a different tech (such as Universal Colonizer), then all races will use it once it is discovered and researched?

[Fyron]

Yes, but they will also start with it. The game assigns colony techs in an odd manner, using the tech req of the lowest listed colony module with the approporiate colony ability to the appropriate races.

[Val]

Even if the tech isn't available?

[pathfinder]

*sneaks in quickly* Narn AI_designcreation re-done. Though they DO use a lot of lasers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

methinks the carrier/fighter problem may have been me... on examination the AI_construction_vehicles file looks like I (seem to remember doing it) used the default/neutral file to base the main races on as I worked on them....DOH! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif (they are kinda neutered so to speak in that area)

I guess I need input on which races are heavy fighter Users and which ones aren't (Pak'ma'ra arne't big Users for example, EA are...)

[ October 16, 2002, 03:16: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Lighthorse]

Val,

We could more combat orient the ai, what does everyone else think?

1.49.32 B5 mod, the computer races are easy prey to an agressive human race at present. Just push aside they ships and drop some armor troops on they homeworld and you just double the size of your empire. I will target the closest two to three AI homeworlds for a fast roll over by turn seventy or so. After that there no stopping an empire that three to four time larger than anyone either. The Last installment of B5 1.49.32 have the AI placing weapon platforms on they homeworld filled with point defense weapons. That didn't slow down my invasion at all. Just dropped in the Storm Troopers from troop transports.
The AI needs to be balance between a strong military force, strong econony with 15 to 20 space yards, a fast track research that centers on mostly weapons, and Lastly but a most important, is that the AI must be expanding into the surrounding systems right off from the start of the game as fast as possible. After colonize each planet, the first item that should be build is a weapon platform with the longest range weapon against spaceship the AI has, and a few point defense weapons to fill it out. Ai must keep on expanding, digging in as it expands, and with its mobile fleets in mothball waiting to counter any threats to it frontier and protect it homeworld from any threat.

That my two cents worth on what needed to improve the AI.

Also is there any other B5 races that you want to play test with and send you a detail research list for? I not a programmer, but I enjoy wargaming B5 over and over again.

Lighthorse

[ October 16, 2002, 04:15: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[AGoetz]

Hmm, Sounds like I've got to get a lot more expansionistic. I tend to take a couple of systems, park fleets on every jump point out and then tech.

A comment re Weapon Platforms. Imagine a high tech Vorlon or Shadow Player. Large Weapon Platforms mounting their massive guns with high rate of fire and range. Now just what are you going to escort those troop transports with - how many sacrifical ships will you deploy just so that the weapon platorms don't target your troop transports... (At which point the Ancient player changes the targetting priority to Unarmed first or some such thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

[Lighthorse]

AGoetz,

The Ai needs to expand until it hits up again another empire, build a strong fleet, etc., etc, to off set its weakest in the thinking department. The other point I should have stated is the AI should push out picket ships to protest its outer border. AI should allied with other AI races to assist each other against the humans. Lastly never allow any human player to enter an AI terriory without a fight. Human can't be trusted.

Lighthorse

[AGoetz]

Make no mistake, the AI does build some numerous forces. Maybe not how I would of designed them, but they always have more mobile hulls than me. It's just that these hulls are usually parked over some backwater world when my specifically constructed assualt fleets come a-knocking.

Largest force I've seen the AI throw through a jump point at me in B5Mod - 30 ships. Largest AI force I've seen latley when switching to them in order to cut down some of their ships to prevent RCE from too many ships in one sector - 70+ (mostly Heavy Cruisers), and that wasn't over a planet either.

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: the only item that I personnally know how to implement is the research weapons sooner bit. Thaat could be done. not in my abilities on the other items unfortunately.

[Timstone]

PF: The Vree, do the Vree! Me like the Vree, me play the Vree very often. Not very many ships of Vree, me sad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Point defense could target ships more easily than the evasive fighters it was designed for. how much damage it would do is another matter...

The real question should be "will allowing PD to target ships ruin their effectiveness in SE4 strategic combat?"

If you decide to allow PD weapons to target ships, perhaps you should give it "Quarter damage to shields", so that the Passive Armor on ships can shrug off the blows, while fighters are still thrashed.

[ October 16, 2002, 16:21: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Val]

SJ -
What I was thinking was:
1) Remove all existing weapons WP compatability.
2) Creating a few new PD guns for WP only. They would be very short range. There would be a mix of guns that could only target ships and those that can target fighters. Thereby seperating the two issues.

This would then avoid impacting space combat, but would make landing troops more hazardous. I'm still of the mind that Satellites and Orbital Bases are more in line with B5, so maybe we should just pump up the AI's satellite production.

[pathfinder]

Val: Hmmm... make bunkers an infantry component? or an ability of the military outpost? just thoughts?

BTW is GROPOS worth having? Just waiting for Miltaries of the Alliance and Dilgar Wars to get here....

short range WP PD...atmosphere only or just outside of atmosphere or ?????? Shadows fighter slicers (at max level) had range of 8-10 IIRC ...could make them untouchable if WP PD is much shorter.... EA uni-pulse has range (at higher lvl) of 4? 5? just a reminder of the give and take on this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 16, 2002, 20:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Val, question: why is the AM cannon (Vree) not capable of attacking satelites? If it can attack a moving target, why can't it track a non-moving target like a satelite? I understand why it can't attack a planet (antimatter explodes when contacted with matter (planets atmosphere is matter)), but it eludes me why it can't attack a satelite. This goes for almost all the AM weapons.

[Val]

I working on adding some planetary defense facilities as well - as per your suggestion.

The fighter slicers shouldn't effect planets. All planets do have planetary shields that should stop most damage from weapons not geared towards planetary destruction. Most planetary weapons have 'skip shield' so they ignore that. Maybe I have to add in generators for the shields on the planets so they regenerate. These shields aren't meant to be 'real' shields (like in Star Wars), just something to counteract ships from assaulting planets with ship to ship weapons.

[Val]

Timstone
Have to look at it, not sure off the cuff. Can it target fighters? Or is it ship only?

[pathfinder]

Val: Yeah, me no look at Shadows in a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Hehe, play balance is just Soooo much fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif . Planets should be able to defend selves so not a push-over but shouldn't be impregnable..... I know..me postulatin' the obvious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val/Timstone: The Vree antiproton defender (AM PD weapon) is, by component description, capable of firing on/destroying satellites. Component 1003 (or 12003 in component file).

[ October 16, 2002, 21:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Maybe I have to add in generators for the shields on the planets so they regenerate. These shields aren't meant to be 'real' shields (like in Star Wars), just something to counteract ships from assaulting planets with ship to ship weapons.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Planetary shields don't regenerate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif They also don't benefit from crystalline ability on facilities.

[Timstone]

PF: Yes, I know that the APD is capable of firing at sats, but it just eludes me why I can destroy ships and not staionary target like sats with a weapon.

Val: AM Cannon is capable of firing at ships only.

[jimbob]

A few things regarding v...32:

1) There are still no smaller spaceport facilities. I thought this would change by this Version... do we want everyone to have to pick Natural Merchants or was this just overlooked? If no new facility is planned I definitely want to change my .emp file.

2) nomads... are they simply incomplete, or is the player supposed to choose both the "B5 nomad" and "B5 normal" traits. Most damaging is the fact that the nomads have no space stations and that the "resource ship" requires colony components - which the nomads simply do not have.
Anyway, I've compiled a list of things regarding the nomads - should I leave this till later or is now a good time?

3) I thought that ancients were going to be incapable of colonization - did this change? Pretty sure that the components exist for them to colonize planets.

4) the "Ability 6 description" field says "1" instead of a description. Should these types of typo's be reported right now, or is that just a hassel at this point.

Sorry if this message seems rushed, just taking a coffee break. These little things (like typo's) I'd be happy to work on sort of at my own pace, then who should I send these to?

[pathfinder]

Timstone: think of it this way---does one use 16" rifle cannon to shoot down fighters and such? ....not normally, so one uses those weapons designed to shoot down fighters (40 mm Bofors as an example). Sats, in modern context, are very small, so it would seem anti-fighter weapons would be used gainst the sats...IMHO.

[AGoetz]

Was doing some experimenting Last night and I've come to conclusion that invading a high tech prepared Vorlon/Shadow world is going to be damn near impossible. Under the current rules (after all Val is still twisting things) I simulated an attack by 8 Vorlon Battle Cruisers equipped with Heavy Mount Medium Lightning Guns (a fairly potent force in my opinon) on a Vorlon Base (what ever the largest size is, forgotten the name) equiped with Massive Base Mount Mega Lightning Guns. Only one of the BCs got a shot off - all of the BCs were one shot kills by the base.

Seeing as 4000 pop world with a level 3 Space Yard could build these bases in 0.8 years without emergency build I wouldn't expect to face just one.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Nope, you'll see a minimum, IIRC, of 2 (if you're "lucky")

jimbob: nomads are incomplete atm..

Val: I peeked at the Shadows in that EA RCE game and noticed the following: They are using 3-4 living cpus/ship; fighters have 2 cockpits-1 regular and 1 semi-sentient one and only he kamikaze fighters have weapons (but the fighters have a bunch of engines!)

[ October 17, 2002, 00:40: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

The major races should be more fighter oriented (and the Drazi), and I know there was a minor race that was really into fighters, will try to find out who. The Shadows had a good amount, the Vorlons didn't use as many.

I'm still thinking about what to do with the WP, after getting the GROPOS supplement for B5 wars and a book on the Dilgar War (where there are a LOT of planetary invasions), even they only mention orbital defenses. I really have to sit and make a list of WP weapons and bunkers. Does anyone know if Point-Defense can be used to target ships (rather than just fighters and missile)?

[Nomor]

Val: Big zip coming your way.. hope your mail box ain't full? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[AGoetz]

re Pathfinder's comments :
Seeing as how I like to have at lest 5 orbital facilites on my homeworld, ouch.

Something else I noticed by going high tech start - the AI's colony ships had no engines. By the time they put on the Colony component, reactor, armor, point defence, ECM and what ever else, there was no room left for actually going anywhere.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Just try and take on a Pak'Ma'Ra planet with a defense base using ranged fUsers....almost as bad as Shadows with base-sized heavy molecular slicers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

and I too have noticed that "no engine" syndrome in full tech start games....

[ October 17, 2002, 03:07: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Lighthorse]

Pathfinder ,

Send you the excel file, enjoy.

Lighthorse

[AGoetz]

Of course my poor little Gaim just get their Particle Concentrators and Packet Torpedoes. At least the Concentrators give a bonus to hit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

[ October 17, 2002, 03:47: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

[jimbob]

Pathfinder:
Can I go ahead and make up some Nomad stuff then? Submit to you?

[Lighthorse]

Hey Guys,

I got an idea for WP. Allow everyone to have them and armed them as they would. If you can't defeat them in space, you're never get close enought to attack they homeworld.

Lighthorse

[ October 17, 2002, 04:06: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[Val]

PF
Yeah, kinda difficult http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'd like to make it so either you have to bomb a place into submission (or oblivion) or have to land troops to take it. That's the goal at least.
Shadows - I actually have to redesign the ancient ships so they only require a single of those components, to make it work in the AI.

SJ
They don't regenerate in that combat, but they do in between battles, right?
Also, I have some new Facilities, Planets and Components to add to the image mod. I used the latest 'master' files as posted on your page.

Timstone
Ok, now that I'm at my place, I was able to look in the AoG sourcebooks that I used as a basis for the weapons. The AM Cannon has difficulty in tracking fighters (has a negative bonus) and I had just set it as a standard that any weapon that is 0 or less will not be able to target fighters or other small targets (I like PFs analogy). I would agree that since satellites are easier to hit than fighters, there is no choice for Ship/Base/Sat, if I include Sats then I have to include fighters, which is not something that weapon is meant to do. Hope that helps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Also, used your Reactor spreadsheet as the basis for the new reactors in 1.49.33.

Jimbob
Spaceport - basic model - added to 1.42.33 until a better solution is found.
Nomads (as PF said) are incomplete, though I am striving to get them done by this weekend if possible. I have Raider facilities and components in a rough to go form (which include some Nomadic stuff). Send me your Nomad list (and any other lists), just send it to me in a private message (and let me know here) or to the b5mod@yahoo.com
Ancient colonies are available, but only if the Ancients research B5 Ancient Tech level 2. This should not be put in the AI, or be used in the PBW we are playing. It is there for an all Ancient game (once the other 4/5 Ancients are done) so they can spread out in the universe. I had made a mistake and given it to them at level 1. Oops!
The ability 6 description field says "1" where? Yeah, nitpick away, all typos should be reported to me. Although AI typos should also be sent to PF.
I have made some Nomadic stuff, if you want me to send you the 1.49.33 beta, i'd be happy to :0

AGoetz
Yeah, could you picture an ancient world being easy to take? Maybe intel could be used to weaken their base a bit, the only real way to get in is in mass waves. This is also why the Ancients aren't meant to colonize in a regular game.
I think that engine error could be taken care of through redoing the AI designs a bit, though I'm not really so worried about this until we are done.
The Gaim have some other nice advantages coming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Nomor
You weren't kidding, will look through them tonight!

[ October 17, 2002, 04:18: Message edited by: Val ]

[Val]

As to WPs, I'm still thinking towards my intial idea:
WP can only take out fighters and provide armor for defense - as bunkers (SJ is credited with this idea, at least I think it was him who suggested it). Then you have to rely on Sats, ships and bases for your defense. Which is pretty consistant with all the B5 material I have seen or read (other than that one episode that Nomor had quoted).

In almost everthing I have seen, the only thing they talk about that is on the planet is the control stations for the satellites and military instalations (bunkers, fortresses, etc).

I would put in the PD weapons to shoot down fighters and incoming missiles, but even Earth (the crown jewel of humanity) only had a satellite defense grid and supplemented it with ships in orbit. If anyone saw the tv-movie where the Drakh unleashed the nano-virus, those tankers that made it past the defense grid had no trouble in the atmosphere (other than being shot by ships in orbit and fighters).

The only exception would be the Great Machine, which would be a MASSIVE planetary gun that would take most cargo space on any planet and would be limited in shots. Though the hits would be guaranteed kills on just about anything.

[pathfinder]

Jimbob: pass it to Val as he does the hard-to-do AI stuff ...me just do AI_designcreation and AI_research atm... plus dabbling in the AI_construction_vehicle file to get fighters going better..

Val: yeah, IIRC SJ had the bunkers idea...

AGoetz: You using the Gaim? Hehe....those bugs are TOUGH hombres when defending their HW; just ask the Narn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 17, 2002, 04:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Thanks for saying so PF, but I tend to think your bit is the tough and tedious part, although Simon's work on the speech files borders on insanity!

Gaim are also tough borders! They also have some ship components that give them an edge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Val: hehe...Simon doing speech file? hehe...I tried that on a racestyle I was doing before getting involved with B5....veddy tough that be!

and do NOT mention the anger file...bleah, I go cross-eyed thinking about that one!

[Val]

That gave me fits on the ones I did! I did do a speech file for the Gaim and that took more time than everything else together for that race!

[AGoetz]

re : attacking Ancients
I figure a non-Ancient heavily armoured Dreadnought may be able to survive a single hit from a Massive Base Mount Super Weapon, but wouldn't be usable for much afterwards.
Anyone know just how many ships you can have in one sector with out getting a RCE? Wondering if a mass of bases could be swarmed by 100+ Scouts with Boarding Parties. The bases should have security/destructs (if not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ) - the security may work but as for the self destructs - I would consider exchanging a scout for a 'super star base of mega death' a fair swap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . In a war of attrition (which any attack on an Ancient stronghold would have to be) numbers can matter more than size.

Val : any idea on when .33 will be available for testing? I'm curious as to what you've added for the Gaim. It's ok if it will be a while, I'm patient.

[ October 17, 2002, 05:13: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

[Val]

I can post what I have anytime, but I'd like to include the Nomad and completed Ancient Facilities with the next release.

[Val]

So, real question is, when do y'all want to start the PBW?

[AGoetz]

I could start at any time in the near future - but I will not be ble to play from ~20th Dec through to ~6th Jan.

[Val]

Another question for y'all that are versed in B5 lore, I would like to set the personality types for the races to reflect the following:
Group 1 - Aggressive Races (Dilgar)
Group 2 - Defensive Races (Abbai)
Group 3 - Standard Races (Earth Alliance)
Group 4 - Ancient Race (this one is pretty obvious)

Or do you think it should be setup differently?

[Fyron]

That sounds good to me.

The PBW game can't start until everyone sends in an empire file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So... get those empire files in people!

[Lighthorse]

Val,

I'm in no rush to play B5mod PBW. I'm willing to wait until later this year. I'm enjoying assisting you with your B5 mod developement.

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

PBW can start whenever (no played one before so...)

as for that grouping: sounds good to me...

as for numbers in a sector, depends on what is setup but is somewhere bewteen 100-255 IIRC...could be very wrong though...

[ October 17, 2002, 11:28: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Val/PF: Thanks for the info on the AM cannon problem. I didn't know you had to add the fighter string also, I thought you could add any string you wanted in any order you liked.

Val: I think yoiu've chosen the more game oriented reactor-spreadsheet for use in the game? I'm currently working on the animation for the jumpgate. But like I said, it will be low-res. I simply don't have the high-res material tow ork with. But that will be corrected in due time.

[Val]

Timstone
Welc! I actually had a lot of trouble with the target variables, because I didn't want most shipbound weapons to be able to damage a planet, hence the addition of the planetary shields in all facilities.
I'd be happy with any animation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I actually used a mix of yours and my original. Costs are down, power is up and it is on a better curve. The only big difference is in your spreadsheet, you had the weight factor of the fusion reactors the same as fission (or have I got them backwards again), when they should be in line with the Grav and AntiMatter ones. Another note, I made AM reactors more Rad expensive, less Min expensive and Grav more evened out in cost.

Lighthorse
The help is greatly appreciated! Now that we have a pretty solid team of people working on the mod, it has actually been progressing at a good speed again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
The PBW is going to be a MAJOR help in finding out where the problems are, what is missing, what is too unbalanced and also, if people keep track of their research from turn to turn (as you did with the Narn), we can use that to augment the AI research file.

All PBW
Ok, so who is having trouble with their .emp files? I think we should try to get this started sometime soon, before we get into the holiday season http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All - On Groups
Group 1 30% - Dilgar, Drazi
Group 2 40% - Abbai, Cascor, Balosian, Gaim, Brakiri, Vree
Group 3 20% - Earth Alliance, Centauri, Minbari, Narn
Group 4 10% - Vorlon, Shadow, Torvalus, Kirshiac, Walkers, Mindriders

Need suggestions for where to put other races.

Other option is to have the Groups more like:
Group 1 40% - Major Races (EA, Narn, Minbari, Drazi)
Group 2 30% - Minor Races (Gaim, Cascor)
Group 3 20% - Nomadic/Special Races (Raiders, Technomages, Drakh)
Group 4 10% - Ancients (Vorlon, Shadows)

[pathfinder]

Question on fighters/AI_construction_vehicles: You want me to do all races or just report "findings" for implementation by other(s)?
Short tests with Narn and EA seems to show fixed (crosses fingers).

or does someone want those two files for further testing?

All I did was grab the TDM files from the Last non-gold Version by Mephisto.

[ October 17, 2002, 19:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

One thing that I think I can guarantee - in the early to mid game at least, he who hasn't researched and bought along fighters will lose the fight to one who has.
Races that can mount missles on their fighters in particular will be trouble for any combatant that doesn't include interceptor style chassis with their fighting forces - the PD weapons cannot target both the seekers and the launch platforms.
One thing that I think all AI research trees should have early is Fighters and Point Defence.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So noted.

BTW: I might have (FINALLY) got something (if you've drunk enuf beer) that remotely (sorta) looks like the Brakiri Avioki cruiser... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All that is left for the "touch of the path" for the Brakiri is a medium fighter and fighter group http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 18, 2002, 03:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Now the Brakiri is a truely amazing accomplishment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PF - send the new AI along and I'll package it with everything else.

[pathfinder]

Tommorow night ok? won't take long, I don't thimk, to finish the 5 main races and the others (only have EA and Narn with the "new" AI_Construction_Vehicle file).
I'll also zip up the Brakiri (both DOGA and the PF Version of the racestyle) tommorow.

[ October 18, 2002, 09:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Yo Val: empty that e-mail before it starts to overflow again...I just filled it with PF spam http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Timstone]

Yeah Val, empty the bucket, coz the open and close animations are coming your way!

[Val]

Box is at 99% full, but I won't have an opportunity to empty it until late tonight/early tomorrow, so hold off 'til Sat night if you can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

wwwhhhaaaaa..bad Markab! they beating up the EA in current test run... 5 Markab heavy destroyers with 6 particle cannon each just spanked 8 EA frigates with 3 medium lasers each....

[ October 19, 2002, 01:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Have you got enough armor on those EA ships?
And, who's fleet costs the most?

[pathfinder]

Not sure what the Markab had for aux equipment (sensors/ecm) but the EA had no armor at the time and no sensors or ecm. They now have the sensors and ecm (but not before the Pak'Ma'Ra wiped them a bit)

DOH...mistaken identity...twas the Grome (neutral) that whipped the EA...

[ October 19, 2002, 14:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Question on the AI_research: I did most of the AI in a quick, easy build. What are recommendations on making them unique (in how fast they research their race weapons and race-unque techs). Also, should I take out the weapon research that is not used in the AI_designcreation?

This is so the AI can cut to "the chase" so to speak and rapidly get tech it needs...

Also....post here if I left a tech out of a race's AI_research file. So many areass, I forget things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ October 19, 2002, 14:25: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Question on the AI_research: I did most of the AI in a quick, easy build. What are recommendations on making them unique (in how fast they research their race weapons and race-unque techs). Also, should I take out the weapon research that is not used in the AI_designcreation?

This is so the AI can cut to "the chase" so to speak and rapidly get tech it needs...

Also....post here if I left a tech out of a race's AI_research file. So many areass, I forget things http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not sure if i've said this already but all races are only building ECM level 1 and no higher at the moment. This has probibly been changed allready though.

The ai also need more PDF on it's ships as i can easly wipe out 4 light crUsers with 4 heavy fighters!

The ai also needs to defend it's home worlds, in my game at the moment i flew a 24 battle crusier's and a dropship fleet in to 1 of the 3 homeworlds the narn had, so while they huge crusier fleets were charging around the place my fleet had to only contend with 2 relay stations armed with light bLast cannons, 20 pfd weapon platforms and about 5 repair tugs. i simply captured their planet and they went down from first to sixth!!!!!

Well anyway for EA techy uniqueness...

EA used Plasma weapons early on at the start of the minbari war ( The nova class ships had 22 twin linked plasma cannons!!!! ) However i don't recomend this for the ai as plasma weapons suck even thought they are cheap to research.

The main big EA gun is the painfull to research Laser/pulse array ( For those that don't know you need the following to get the first level in this weapon: Physics 2, military science 1, Laser weapons 7, Plasma weapons 7 and a level in adavance laser weapons!!!) This is the holy grail of earth weapons (well kind off http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

This means EA ai will need physics 2 to get laser weapons pretty quickly, this should be fine as a good weapon, then military science a bit later to get pulse weapons. (if u want EA ships to use pulse weapons u need to remember that u need a level in particle weapons for every level in pulse weapons).

Particle weapons are needed for the Uni pulse cannon for fighters ( get this up to level 7 and u can fit 2 on a med fighter to get a "starfury" WOW!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif .

Do u think you could make it so large EA ships have 2-3 fighter bays on board. As this is a tatical advantage as well as being like in the series. I do it on my EA ships of Battle cruiser and above as with cobra bay 3's and 3 expanded fighter bays u can hold 18 heavy fighters, this takes care of any other fighters and of any small ships with boarding parties.

Oh that reminds me the ai does not use boarding parties so i never have to put self destruct devices on the ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[pathfinder]

Jam: What race do you normally play as? If Shadows...their weapons for fighters are rather long-ranged and strong..

Not sure how to make the AI use more than one PD weapon...anyone know how? May PD as secondary weapon?

I can reset the battlestations (EA Relay station) to use heavier weapons (if I haven't done so already) but they will be used ONLY if the heavier weapons have been researched.

As for the need to do all that research, one thing to remember is one doen't want ALL (IMHO anyways) research to be weapons, infrastructure does have it place, otherwise the AI runs out of materials quick...

Another thing I noticed is that while the EA design fighters with missiles they do NOT build them. Must the AI dude put anotations for each type fighter in the AI_construction_vehicle file in order for them to be built?

Hmmm..all the race I checked have level 9-10 sensor and 6-7 levels combat support (multi-plex and ecm)...I simply have not added the ecm support/sensor support and advanced ecm methods/advanced sensor methods yet.

The ability for launching fighters is in designcreation, not sure how to have AI place fighter bay(s) on ships (as per the show).

[ October 19, 2002, 19:59: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Working on the 1.49.33 release now, added PF's latest AI enhancements and all the shipsets he has sent in. Also added a bunch of pics from the vast assortment Nomor sent in. Worked some more on the components. Made a change to the fighters that might make them a bit less effective against
larger ships. Made some other changes as well and am also working on the Raiders/Nomads to make them more playable.

PF
Would rather have the races go for their unique weapons a little quicker, but the choice to when is up to you.
To get more PD weapons I had made PD one of the required components and had raised the per ton value so they had one, then inserted another PD requirment after a few other 'essential' components(this time with a lowered tonnage so they would take more), this seemed to work in my initial AI.

[pathfinder]

Okies, me will look at the 5 main races and see what I can do to "cattle-prod" them to faster weapons research (though me thinks I did this with the Shadows)

[Timstone]

Val: please hold on with the release of .33. I can make those anmimations work. I'll have them ready the comming monday.

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Jam: What race do you normally play as? If Shadows...their weapons for fighters are rather long-ranged and strong.. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-Well i play as Earth alliance most of the time, and my 4 heavy fighters armed with 3 uni-pulse cannons VIII each, took out 4 narn heavy cruisers all armed with 5-6 partical cannon V's and a plasma PDF weapon without a single loss.

Originally posted by pathfinder:
As for the need to do all that research, one thing to remember is one doen't want ALL (IMHO anyways) research to be weapons, infrastructure does have it place, otherwise the AI runs out of materials quick... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-I'm just saying about weapons as the AI at the moment are doing fine with infastructure as they at turn 120 have all their facilities at level 3 except space yards. The only problem with the ai is that although they expand, they do not move population to colonies so facilities take ages for the ai players to build. The ai's only problem at the moment is that it's research is too much to do with infastructure and not enought to do with weapons and combat.

I'll for instance see on the player comparison that the narns for example have about the same amount of tech levels as me, i'll then decide to give them all the light/med/large general weapons techs i have, 3-4 levels of propultion and a few levels in a couple of weapons techs, they except and shoot up 50 tech levels on the comparision chart. This shows that they are researching alot of things to do with infrastructure, but not weapons. I keep having to give research gifts to make the ai challanging to play.

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Another thing I noticed is that while the EA design fighters with missiles they do NOT build them. Must the AI dude put anotations for each type fighter in the AI_construction_vehicle file in order for them to be built? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-It might be that the ai just doesn't need to build them at the moment as it has enought fighters. On a similar note the ai only builds new ships, it is quite happy to have ancient designs rolling around untill they get killed, they don't seem to retrofit old ships in to new designs and especilly do not retrofit bases.

Originally posted by pathfinder:
I can reset the battlestations (EA Relay station) to use heavier weapons (if I haven't done so already) but they will be used ONLY if the heavier weapons have been researched.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-you misunderstood me, i was EA attacking the narns and their bases defending their homewords were NOT upgraded from what they had first built them as and therefore you do not need to change any file, i'm just saying that they don't retrofit their ships.

-On your point about the ai running out of resourses i don't think that is quite true as with the reduction in maintanace costs you can support about 40-60 ships from one homeworld with about 10 mine/refinary things on them and still have enoght left for a large construction que
(this is early on in the game when ships don't cost loads).

-The ai is also not using mines as i've captured several planets where there have been mines on the planet but they have not been launched or to my knowledge used somewhere else.

[pathfinder]

Haven't a clue as to how to get them to move population, only time I have seen the AI do this is when I set the population minister on along with one or two thers when I am playing and not testing AI.

3 uni-pulse, eh?! I only use 2 with rest being reactor, engines and armor.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I had the Shadows with 10 light fighters take out 70+ Minbari frigates, corvettes and destroyers. The light molecular slicer they had (forget the level) had the Minbari outranged by a coupla spaces...no contest Shadows 70+ Minbari 0.

Funny, the EA AI is constantly upgrading the ships and bases....wonder why the Narn aren't...

Oh and Jam, not disagreeing with ya at all. See some of the same things, just mostly don't know what to do about them (me novice at AI stuff)

[ October 20, 2002, 00:40: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

Val: Personally I'd rather have Version .33 yesterday http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif as I gives me Sunday to experiment, and I want to try making an Abbai Empire file, which doesn't see to want to happen at present? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Timestone: We can always have the animations In .34 on Monday. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[pathfinder]

Nomor: lemme know what ya think of the Abbai shipset. I don't know if Val has done anything to it but it is one of the best I have done (well better than than the Pak'Ma'Ra anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Hopefully Val had time to put some graphics "magic" to it.

[Nomor]

PF: Will do... soon as .33 is up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Can't wait. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
Val you have mail.., not a lot.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Hey I just got promoted..! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
(Just found that Vorlon OP, in your box now.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[ October 20, 2002, 02:46: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Jamorobo]

I can't wait for .33 ohh i have to take a sponge bath every time i think of it.

ohhh the ai...... the pulse weapons......

*realises everyone is looking at him*

Anyway how's the ai comming pathfinder? are they kicking your proverbial buttocks?

[pathfinder]

Jam: Yeah, the flipping Pak'Ma'Ra are of all races *hides in shame* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Speaking of the AI: If, for example, the Gaim use only particle weapons, would I not delete/not enter research for say plasma in their AI_research file?

Of course there is always the flipping EA which research ballistics, lasers, pulse and plasma http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif what a nightmare they gonna be to re-do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Oh man, this is going to take awhile....re-doing the EA so that they have 1 level early of each of their techs...bleah...I keep getting the levels screwed up... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Finally got the EA more or less done (at least the advanced laser is done so the laser/pulse weapons are available kinda early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Now for EA Advanced Ballistic weapons

EA done (for now), also added some levels of sensor/ecm support/advanced techniques

Gonna have to hold off on Minbari...until their advanced weapons are clarified...They already had stuff advanced, fast forwarded anyways..

[ October 21, 2002, 03:02: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

Well, in the tech for .32 anyway, the only weapons research the Gaim need is Gaim Tiny (Particle Beams), Gaim Light (PDF Scattergun), Gaim Medium (Scattergun), Gaim Heavy (Packet Torpedoes, Particle Concentrators), Point Defence, Ship Capture, Ballistic and Particle - that gives all the Gaim specific weapon techs as well as a scattering of Particle based general weapons.
When Val releases more Gaim tech (which he has indiciated that he has worked out, but hasn't indicated whether is will be in .33) that list may have to be extended.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Yup, Gaim got those in the AI I done plus I worked on their ship capture (they get the "full Monty" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) (or do in what I did to them today..hehe)

Ya'll verify please, the following techs (available):

Shields: Abbai, Minbari, Vorlons, Shadows (anyone else?)

Jammers: Minbari (anyone else?)

ECM Support: ? (EA Have full tech here atm)
Sensor Support: ? (EA have full tech here atm)

Advanced ECM techniques: ? (EA full tech atm)
Advanced Sensor Techniques: ? (EA full tech atm)

Llort only get level 1 sensors (IIRC). No ECM or multi-track. unless Val dials-in their targeting lasers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 21, 2002, 03:48: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

Val: Hope you're checking in on a smoke break... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
New bmp's for structures in your mailbox plus miscellaneous .. you may have a place of power? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
I guess it's about 3.45pm your end? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Done about as much as I know how to do with the weapons tech/research for Narn, Vorlons, Minbari, EA, Gaim, Centauri.

[jimbob]

Val: private message.

[ October 22, 2002, 17:29: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[pathfinder]

Nuts: Just upgraded DOGA L3 and lost all of Val's parts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

wheee.....just had to get correct parts list to correct folder... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ October 22, 2002, 04:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Val: any comment on my mail?

[Val]

Hey All! Went back to PA for Sunday/Monday to clean my house and get the groundwork done for cable or dsl connection. Lots of mail to check tonight, eh?

Timstone
The anim for the jumpgate is more like a flipbook than a GIF, you just make a progressive picture from frame to frame and it will 'flip' through them. Black is the mask color.

Nomor
Sorry, missed your request or I would have posted it as it is. I will try to post 1.49.33 tonight/tomorrow.
I also saw the new stuff you sent, but have to wait until later to really get a good look at 'em.

PF
I may have some new parts for you for DoGA, I have to check and see when I Last made some.
I have almost finished the Pakmara and am working on the Abbai and Raiders (since they are important for the PBW). Not really doing much to them other than minor modifications, excellent work on the sets!!!! All that and AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I think the easiest way to do the research bit (from when I was doing AI) is to play the race and research stuff as you would , but only 4 projects at a time.
Don't worry about shield research yet, it's useless.
Jammers - Minbari and ancients.

AGoetz
The Gaim will now also have their bulkheads (which work like old SE IV style armor)

Jamrobo
Pulse weapons have been fixed (I hope to your liking).

All
I was thinking about giving all Ancient class vessels an inherent mine sweeping ability, based on size. What do y'all think?

[Timstone]

Val: Yeah, I know how the animation works. But I can't figure out how to correct the "glare' of picture 11 and 12. How do I reproduce it?
Let me explain. I had a picture of the gate of 129X94, so I had to make a bit of 128X34 to make the whole picture 128X128 (SE filles the picture until it is 128X128). So I got stuck with the picture 11 and 12. They have a glare (of the jumpfunnel opening which give off a white glare. How do I make that glare myself (to fill up that bit of 128X34)?
Oh, and any ideas about the closing sequence?

[Urendi Maleldil]

You could try flashing a single frame of all white. That would give a nice flash effect.

[Fyron]

How about giving the Vorlons a small ship that has a built in cloaking ability, and only the Shadows can detect it. This would allow the Vorlons to keep tabs on other races without making their presence known.

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Urendi Maleldil:
You could try flashing a single frame of all white. That would give a nice flash effect.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No can do. The frame is not all white. It's glare, a flash, a ring of light. Check my avatar, then you'll know what I mean. Thanks anyway.

[Val]

Timstone
Heh, sorry, my misunderstanding!

For the glare, I think there is a lens flare tool in Photoshop and PSP that will let you make a Halo, that should work, I think.

For the reverse, just reverse the flipbook on the animation, or maybe we just make the blinking lights go dim and darken the picture. Could also do the yellow warp inside the gate instead. Your choice really http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Val: I also have a set of DOGA called nishino_parts. can't remember where I got them. another set is one you had back in March/April. Those, plus the "stock" set, are what I have.

[Val]

What are the Nishino parts? How big a zip?

I'll check the dates on my parts, but I think it is my home PC that has the more recent turrets and weapons.

[pathfinder]

They are kinda hard to describe, seem to be armor and robot parts. at least 1 gun cupola/turret and double barrel gun. unzipped folder is 6.64 MB. I could zip it (zip is long deleted). lemme know if got all that PF spam out and I'll zip and email it to ya.

Hehe, problem with me doing research and using that is I never follow same pattern any two games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif EA are ok, coupla minor tweaks and they should be ok...maybe the EA player in the PBW could give some suggestions (same goes for the rest, tho' someone did give ya the Narns IIRC)

One of the PBW players mentioned wanting a Dilgar set...depends on which group. The main ones probably will be difficult for me...they are the ones whose bow looks like a set of short/fat crab claws. The curves are what I find hard to make (plus these kind have puffed/rounded look). Boxes and tubes I can fake-it but curves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 22, 2002, 23:29: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Urendi Maleldil]

A single frame of white will look like a blinding flash depending on how fast the animation is played. They did it in Star Wars in some of the space battles.

Paintshop Pro Animation shop can make nifty flares, and I'm sure there's one for Photoshop.

There's a nice lense-flare plugin that comes with Moray. You have more control over the POVray Version though.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
How about giving the Vorlons a small ship that has a built in cloaking ability, and only the Shadows can detect it. This would allow the Vorlons to keep tabs on other races without making their presence known.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seems everyone missed my post...

[AGoetz]

How about giving the Vorlons a small ship that has a built in cloaking ability, and only the Shadows can detect it. This would allow the Vorlons to keep tabs on other races without making their presence known. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Saw your post. It is an idea - but would you want the Shadows to also get such a hull? And would this weaken the TechnoMages with their specialty disguised hulls?

[Fyron]

Don't the Shadows have cloaking devices or somesuch? They should.

[Dead Meat]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Don't the Shadows have cloaking devices or somesuch? They should.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not that I have noticed while looking at them. I wouldn't mind having the Vorlons cloak so long as the shadows can see them / do the same. Though I don't recall the Vorlons being able to do so in the show. I could be mistaken though.

Can't say about the Techonmages(sp?) sense I havn't looked at their techs. But you could just make it so that the Shadows, Vorlons, Techonmages and the other Anchents can see each other but not the younger races

[pathfinder]

IF: The Shadows had the capability to "half-phase" beween hyperspace and "normal" space using a phasing drive and bio-thrusters(which made them almost invisible/indestructible). Don't know how/if Val plancs to implement this ability/component. Nothing else found Vorlons or Shadows (yet).

[ October 23, 2002, 01:00: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

IF: I've seen shots of the Mars Shadow vessel being dug up and it shimmered with the same colour as the earth background. It would appear that the Shadow being a "living" ship had a sort of chameleon ability that would make it hard to see, the perfect camouflage.

In the episode were Keffer gets fried the Shadow did not appear on his scanner as anything he could recognise and he just got lucky/unlucky that it phased in, in front of him.

Being a "living" ship may have given it a low EM signature. We can assume that the Shadows therefore have a stealth mode by this nature, but would they need to develop a true cloaking system as they can phase in and out of real space at will. They are too powerful to be bothered by the lesser races seeing them and the other Ancients would likely have some way to detect a cloak. IMHO. Phew... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 23, 2002, 00:54: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Dead Meat]

IF: The Shadows had a "phasing" device which made them almost invisible/indestructible. I'll check my AoG source material and see.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I remeber that, but I have read conflicting reports on weither or not it allowed them to cloak (though persoanl i think that it does) so i didn't want to come out and say that they (shadows) should be able to cloak.

[ October 23, 2002, 00:54: Message edited by: Dead Meat ]

[Fyron]

The Shadows enter Hyperspace in a manner that allows them to become invisible. The exact method used doesn't matter. This would be represented by a cloaking device in SE4. Not a ship hull with cloaking built in, but an actual comp that could be placed on any ship. I though the Shadows would have this already. This is why I suggested the Vorlons get a small ship size (smaller than Scout) which has a cloaking ability built-in, instead of an actual cloaking component. Although, they can enter special pockets (dimensions?) in Hyperspace, which allows them to hide from the younger races. So maybe they could get 1 type of cloaking, which they and the Shadows have scanners that can see. The Shadows would get another type of cloaking, which only they could see. Then, add Stealth devices, which races such as the Minbari have, which would be for the younger races to use. The ancient races would be able to easily detect these (scanner at level 1 ancient tech).

[pathfinder]

Yow, I was editing my post on "cloaking"....and couple more Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Try not to make a post until after you have written what you want to write in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Nomor]

That seems perfect. Now how about lesser races having fighters that can hide in Asteroid belts and spy on their siblings. You could also give Asteroid Belts a 1% ship damaging property so that fighters could not park out there the whole time. Caused by stress and collisions with small debris. Ships with mining equipment would be immune to this effect? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[pathfinder]

Finished a bout of tweaking the AI. anyone want it?

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Nomor:
That seems perfect. Now how about lesser races having fighters that can hide in Asteroid belts and spy on their siblings. You could also give Asteroid Belts a 1% ship damaging property so that fighters could not park out there the whole time. Caused by stress and collisions with small debris. Ships with mining equipment would be immune to this effect? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could add sector-sight obscuration to asteroids, and then anything could hide in them. You could not set it up so that only fighters could hide there.

Asteroid belts have vast amounts of empty space between asteroids. Hiding in them is extremely unrealistic. For all of the probes that NASA has sent out through the asteroid belt in our solar system, none of them had to worry much about course corrections to avoid asteroid collisions (IIRC).

Sector-damage is a fixed value, not a percentage. If it does not do enough damage to destroy a component of a ship or the whole fighter in one turn, it will not do anything. eg: if the ship's weakest component has 10 hit points, then a sector that does 9 damage will never harm the ship. Partial damage does not stack outside of combat.

[Suicide Junkie]

You could add sector-sight obscuration to asteroids, and then anything could hide in them. You could not set it up so that only fighters could hide there.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could give Type A cloaking to the sector, and Type B to the fighters.
Give sensors both type A and B detection, but slightly less than the cloaking.

Only fighters or ships with active cloaking devices will be able to hide in that location.

Or is your only option for sector cloaking the broadband all-5 cloak?

[ October 23, 2002, 03:18: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Fyron]

Sector cloaking applies to all types evenly. It's level can be customized, but unfortunately it cannot have different levels in different types.

[Nomor]

That might be even more fun .. having Asteroid Belts with random damage values that would or would not damage components based on their damage resistance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

" Asteroid belts have vast amounts of empty space between asteroids. Hiding in them is extremely unrealistic. " I don't see how that follows. A NASA probe is designed to avoid collisions with objects.

A manned space craft could if it wanted manoeuvre close to a large rock, put on the parking break, shut down all non essential systems and make like another rock and thus be less visible than a ship in open space. The fact that there are large distances between asteroids still doesn't stop you from hiding behind one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I thought this would a great motivator to research scanners and provide a strategy level that isn't there in the original game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
SJ: Thanks for the above.. oink in the flyment.

[ October 23, 2002, 18:58: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Your quadruple post has been cut down to size.

You need a little more patience next time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron: How about this: double the cloaking ability of cloak type B for every component.

That way, an asteroid field with obsucration level 2 is effectively giving the fighter level 2 in type A, but only level 1 in type B!

Then, the method I described should work!

[ October 23, 2002, 19:03: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Val]

I like the hide in asteroids bit, could also give the ability to small ships (Scouts, Escorts, Destroyers) as well as fighters. I had actually considered the asteroid cloaking all ships/fighters myself while I was editting the quadrants and such, but had set the idea aside.

I do have a question with Scanners though - If a ship has a cloak component with level 3 Gravitic (or whatever it was called), do you need a gravitic scanner of higher level to penetrate? Or can you also penetrate with an EM/Active scanner of sufficient level?

As to Vorlon's cloaking, never really saw it happen in the show or books, though they should have scanner jammers to avoid scanning at distance. I know the Shadows had the phasing in and out of Hyperspace, but that wasn't like the Star Trek cloaking, they actually entered and left Hyperspace during the combat, it was as if they were jumping into and out of combat, not actually cloaking their vessels (there is a rule in the AoG stuff that allows them to phase in and out to avoid being targetable, unless you follow them into Hyperspace). So I would say no there too.

On the other hand, the Torvalus (Dark Knife vessel in the Coriana fight with all the ancients) do have a real cloak, the technomages also have a cloak (and Illusions) and the Hyach have some sort of cloak. The fact that the Technomages can do it suggests the Shadows should be capable (as Technomage tech is derived from the Shadows), but maybe the Shadows never bothered or just preferred the enemy see them coming. I believe the Drakh may also have one, though not sure.

[Suicide Junkie]

I do have a question with Scanners though - If a ship has a cloak component with level 3 Gravitic (or whatever it was called), do you need a gravitic scanner of higher level to penetrate? Or can you also penetrate with an EM/Active scanner of sufficient level?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As in the humans-only P&N mod, the grav cloak only protects against grav sensors.

All ships get the basic level 1 active scanners (or is it passive?). The scanner only attempts to beat the cloak type matching its sensor ability type.

[Fyron]

Val, I never said they had star-trek cloaking devices. But, cloaking devices are the only way to model this in-game. There are 5 different cloaking abilities, so they could all be used to model the different kinds of cloaking, phasing and stealth technologies.

Vorlons don't have the same type of thing that Shadows do, but they can have their ships enter special pockets in hyperspace, and hide there from other ships in hyperspace.

Edit:
Oh, and Val, get an avatar. SJ keeps confusing us for some reason. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ October 23, 2002, 23:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Doh! Val, get an avatar, so I don't keep confusing you with Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

The Last time I tried to apply sight obscuration to asteroid fields it made them invisible! And yet did not affect any ships that enetered the sector. Dang... so as far as I know it only works for hiding ships with storms. Does this conversation mean that it has changed and asteroids work properly with sight obscuration now? Or is this pure speculation?

[Val]

Pure speculation, though we'll be testing it soon enough.

Any suggestions for an Archon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

IF
Sorry, wasn't meaning to imply that you were saying they were like Trek cloaks, was just saying that since that was the only way to do it I wasn't really for it (not that I am the final word). Though I am for Jammers for the ancients so they can't be scanned to see what they are carrying.

I'll work on splitting up the various kinds of cloaking/jamming so at least we have a start in whatever direction we decide to go.

[Fyron]

The cloaked scout for the Vorlons wasn't meant to be a war ship, just something basic to represent them keeping tabs on their "projects". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

A special ship to spy with... very small, like a probe?

[Val]

Or more like their personal transports?

[AGoetz]

If the Vorlons are going to have a auto-stealth spy ship, I propose no larger than Frigate (I'd prefer only an Scout or Escort size) - otherwise you'll be facing Spy Ships able to gut a Younger Race Battleship - and Tech-difference or no Tech-difference, that is getting a bit much ...

After all the Technomage illusion-ships are Frigate sized from memory - and I'm interested to see if they will be worth having in an actual game where their hidden flag could mean something (it's useless against the AI)

[Fyron]

Val, prolly the personal transport or something.

Agoetz, it is supposed to be smaller than a scout.

[Val]

AGoetz
Yeah, the hidden flag is pretty useless against the AI, though if the AI is using the Technomage illusionary ships (I'm working on a special Technomage ship design AI - though if PF wants to do the research file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), it could confuse a human player who isn't paying attention.

IF
Maybe a personal transport/flyer type thing then that will be pretty small, like between a fighter and scout. Give it some built in stuff and then you would be left to outfit it. Wouldn't be able to effectively carry more than a defensive weapon or so - if it hoped to have any sort of speed. Could give the same to all ancients, make it an observation ship. But we would have to give the ancient facilities an ability to scan and see whatever level cloak it is so it would be harder for the Vorlons and Shadows to spy on each other.

[Nomor]

So is this for .33 or is it for .34? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Looks like Summer's finally over. It tried to snow today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif (sorry off the topic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[ October 24, 2002, 02:24: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Val]

.34 - don't want to delay .33 any longer than I have to.

Actually snowed here (in Mass) this morning, though it all melted by midday.

[ October 24, 2002, 02:28: Message edited by: Val ]

[Fyron]

Val, I was going on the assumption that other ancients (Shadows, namely) would have real cloaking devices. So, the observation ship would be useless to them. And, there would be a scanner to see it available at Ancient Tech 1.

[ October 24, 2002, 02:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Val]

So far the only ancient I actually gave cloaks to is the Torvalus.

I don't really see the Kirshiac using them, or the Walkers, maybe the Mind Riders (I think they are the ones with the thought shield).

I'm still unsure about the Shadows cloaking, still kinda just see that as their way to hop into/out of Hyperspace and not so much as a way to monitor and sneak around.

Too bad we can't have a component with a disengage option...

[pathfinder]

Val: Technomage research. Okies, I'll have to see what they have in the tech area file. If I can't get it done by Sunday it'll be another week as I go on a business trip next Tuesday.

Only Ancient I can find with cloaking is the Torvalus with the Shading Field.

[ October 24, 2002, 03:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

It's close enough to be modeled by a cloaking device. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

Timstone
I can't find your E*Mail address, so figured I'd just post here. Tried something on frames 11 & 12 to extend the flares (I think those are right), what do you think? Excellent work on the gate animation BTW!!

WPOpen.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1035436894.zip)

[Dead Meat]

I'm still unsure about the Shadows cloaking, still kinda just see that as their way to hop into/out of Hyperspace and not so much as a way to monitor and sneak around.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">While I don't have any of the books or AOG. I have seen all of the TV shows/movies (except for Crusade, to which I only saw the movie and the first 2 shows, and the episode where the Centauri homeworld get attacked). It has always been my belief that the Shadows (and some of the Ancents where able to cloak their ships).

Arguments can/have be made for boths side. But personaly I think the they do have some type of cloak techology that they used. I remember one website saying that they, the Shadows, where able to phase into a place inbetween normal space and hyperspace. Ofcourse shorlty after i read another site that said that they couldn't do it. But I think that if you take a look at some of the battles that the Shadows fought, especaly the battles where they set up an ambush, their is stronger evidence that they can cloak when they need/want too.

For example: The episode during the Narn-Centauri war where Gr'Kar warns the Narns about the up coming Centauri attack on their homworld. But the Narns still decided to attack the Centauri's supply lines only to be ambushed by the Shadows. Also, the episode where Londo told Mr. Mordan about the Narn mission to Z'ha'dum. Too which the Narns once again get the bad end of the Shadow Beam.

As for the fear of having a "phased" Shadow fleet over your Homeworld, well yeah, I can see where that would suck. So as the rep for the Shadows, I gerentee you no more than 2 ships above your homeworld at any given time.* How's that for a deal?

*Disclaimer: This offer void when I'm about to launch a sneak attack against you, your allies, or any other race that does not support my way of thinking.

[Val]

Here is what I have for the 1.49.33 release so far:

1.49.33 - Made change to settings for combat modifier. Changed all Gas Giants to new size Groups to represent Orbital Colonies (Mid Range, Massive & Enormous), they have smaller facility and population allowances. Added Colony Pics for all the various types. Added new ruins tech (Universal Colonizer). Added more Intel and Events. Revised Reactors for all classes. Added new Derelict ships to planet pack. Added updated AI. Added new WPOpen pic. Reworked combat adjustments for ships and fighters, added Vorlon Personal Transport and added Scanner Jammers to Ancient Ships.

What do the rest of you think about Shadow Cloaking?

Dead Meat
Heh, love the disclaimer.

[ October 24, 2002, 07:07: Message edited by: Val ]

[Fyron]

Derilect ships as planets? How does that work? I hope you can't load much population or facilities on to them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[AGoetz]

.33 sounds good to me.

The Universal Colonizer - is it be the same price as a normal Rock/Ice/Gas or is it more expensive?

Without a few Trade treaties, can the Shadows afford to support two ships over everyone else's homeworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by AGoetz:
Without a few Trade treaties, can the Shadows afford to support two ships over everyone else's homeworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most certainly. They can build bases that make them money, without having to remote mine. And, their ships have very low maintanence costs to boot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif 2 shadow ships (esp. carriers) is a formidable force.

[pathfinder]

Val: for whatever reason my hotmail is hosed, so me asking this here: any preference as to what ship size has allegiance converter (technomage)?

AI_research drafted and AI_designcreation done for Technomages except for AC ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They just need some playtesting

Also, shouldn't the AC III be available after psyco-tech III not II?

[ October 24, 2002, 12:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

PF
Not a problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I brobably made a typo, I'll check it. I wouldn't put the allegiance subverter on any particular ship yet, I'm going to put it on the Kamakazi (sp?) ship and just tell it to make a few of them, else the AI will go a bit crazy using them.

IF
The derelict ships (which I would still like to get a better pic for - maybe the derelict ship they found in that episode of Crusades) have 0 pop 0 facil, but some will have special techs on board. I basicly added a ship pic to the Planets.bmp and made it a rock planet (so it could be 'colonized'). A few show up here and there in the various systems, but with no techs. Then I added a few to other systems (including Hyperspace) that have ruins. In my test games I have seen (on average) 6 derelicts, 2 with tech on them. Never made it to settle one though, so it is still untested.
Too bad I can't make it generate a ship you can repair and tow back to base, then reverse engineer.

AGoetz
The Ancients can afford quite a bit in the way of ships, especially if they get a few treaties going.
The Universal Colonizer is more expensive, but hey, you don't have to worry about planet type when you go to colonize http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nomor]

Val: The pic from crusade of the derelict ship is very dark http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif but I'll send shortly. (sorry.. you mentioned it before) The other pic is of the Drakh ship that crashed on a planet, but you have that already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Sent just prior to this edit... should be there now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 24, 2002, 18:57: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Val]

As always Master Librarian Nomor, thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And thank you to PF for the technomage AI hint pickup as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AGoetz]

2 shadow ships (esp. carriers) is a formidable force. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can just picture it now - 2 Shadow Carriers loaded to the spines with Heavy Shadow Fighters with their long range and damage weapons orbiting the Gaim Homeworld - whose Racial Point Defence weapon has a range of 1 ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Dead Meat]

2 Shadow Carriers loaded to the spines with Heavy Shadow Fighters with their long range and damage weapons orbiting the Gaim Homeworld - whose Racial Point Defence weapon has a range of 1 ... <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm well if thats the case then I'll save my self some time and just have one carrier with light fighters. Hows that?

[AGoetz]

Could I have a look at the design specs for those fighters please. I want to see if I can design anti-fighter ships with at least twice the combat speed so that I can get them into range. After all if you're just going to use Light Fighters, there isn't a lot of room left for engines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Should throw together a high tech start and see how many Shadow Fighters 60 PDF-Scattergun only Gaim Frigates can defeat ... Surely it's at least 5 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif What size Carriers will those be?

[ October 25, 2002, 01:36: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

[Val]

Y'all are too funny!

Anyway - opinion time:

I'm thinking of the following ship types for the mod:
Civilian (B5 Standard Race) -80% Maint, -60% Combat
Corporate (B5 Standard Race) -65% Maint, -30% Combat
Military (B5 Standard Race) -50% Maint, 0% Combat
House (Centauri) -70% Maint, -15% Combat
Ancient (B5 Ancient Race) -75% Maint, +5% Combat
Tender (B5 Nomadic Race) -90% Maint, -30% Combat
Mercenary/Privateer (B5 Nomadic Race) -80% Maint, -15% Combat
Military (B5 Nomadic Race) -70% Maint, 0% Combat
Independent (Raiders) -75% Maint, -5% Combat

[Fyron]

What's the reasoning behind this one:
House (Centauri) -70% Maint, -15% Combat

[Val]

Ships are sponsored by one of the great Centauri Houses, where there are trained and outfitted, obviously their training isn't as good as standard military.

I was also thinking of adding the 3 Minbari Castes as different ship types mirroring the Civilian, Corporate and Military.

[pathfinder]

Val: More PF spam! Sent ya the draft Technomage AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and the rest of the AI too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

BTW ok by me on the type ship stuff.

Popcorn!...Peanuts! Get your latest PF B5 AI here.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Latest B5 (non-gold) AI. Added technomage (draft) and tweaked all AI_research files.

1035562311.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1035562311.zip)

[ October 25, 2002, 17:15: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Lighthorse]

Val

Here another arguement for having WP's on planets.
Took this from Maxims of Bonaparte's.

"The fate of a Nation may sometimes depend upon the position of a fortress."

Sorry that I haven't joined in on the forum lately, due to demands of work and home.

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: We got a saying in my gaming group: Real life first...

[Lighthorse]

PF
Fair enought.
Lighthorse

[Val]

Lighthorse
Real Life always has to come first, otherwise the game will suffer in the long run http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I do like WPs in the regular game of SE IV, my argument has only been against them in the B5 Mod, not that I don't think they would be useful, just that they aren't in line with the B5 universe that I have read up on.

PF
Thanks for the latest / greatest, does it come with real butter or that fake oil stuff?

[pathfinder]

Parkay http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

hehe...me having a fit with the bLasted Hyach in my test game of the new AI...mainly 'cause ahm too lazy to co-ordinate space yards to up my fleet and/or replace fighters. Those Hyach are using large mount particle cannon IV and heavy bolter iv in heavy cruisers with a single PD particle weapon. so far I have "only" lost one small planet in sector and all the defense on a tiny moon, not to mention 3 escort carriers, coupla hundred fighters and dozen or so destroyers, frigates and light cruisers. I find that I MUST use space born defenses of all "flavors" in order to survive. I have a heavy pulse space station a fighter station an anti-fighter station then a base space yard for repairs on all planets in the two contested systems. Been interesting...

BTW WPs have not been "involved" yet. Currently only put PD/anti-fighter weapons, sensors and armor on them. Oh and I can't build/emplace enough mines to more than be an inconvience to the Hyach...

[ October 25, 2002, 20:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

I can't believe it's not butter http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yeah, the Hyach will also have some new components in a bit that will make them an even harder opponent. That along with their special Stealth Sub ships... not a fun race to piss off. Good thing they have such a low birth rate and are pretty non-aggressive!

[jimbob]

I was also thinking of adding the 3 Minbari Castes as different ship types mirroring the Civilian, Corporate and Military.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes please! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
And I like the nomad thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Val]

Jimbob
I hoped you'd like the nomad stuff, it is based off of stuff you suggested mixed with some stuff I had put in for .33 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The only thing is, if I can get this out this weekend or so, any nomadic empire in the PBW should remake their EMP file.

[jimbob]

Yah, and now I wanna play a nomad instead of these crappy... crpyy.. oh, what the heck was I playing again?

..oh yah, stinkin' Minbari! What was I thinking?

Edit: Val, I'll have the remote resource comps to you tomorrow night + some ship types.

[ October 26, 2002, 00:17: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Captain Kwok]

How many races are in this mod not including neutrals?

Edit:

Just thought I would make a legimate post to get to 2000.

[ October 26, 2002, 01:07: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

[Atrocities]

2001th reply. Just had to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Capt Kwok: 13 if I counted correctly.

LNAW, Raiders, Vree, Vorlons, Shadows, Earth Alliance, Narns, Centauri, Drazi, Pak'Ma'Ra (unless Val makes them neutral), ShagToth (Soulhunters), Minbari. Not sure where Val is going to put technomages, if regular then that makes 14 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . The neutrals here generally get their own research and designcreation since they (or most do) have their own tech trees.

Whoooo...Twin arrays in WPs...saved a huge/rock-oxy planet from an attack by ~50 fighters (these had gotten by the orbital defenses)...

[ October 26, 2002, 02:19: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Lighthorse]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Val:

Lighthorse Real Life always has to come first, otherwise the game will suffer in the long run http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks for at least for letting me state my thoughts on WP. If its not in B5 universe then it shouldn't be in the mod.
Are the Nomadic race ready enought to play?

[ October 26, 2002, 03:17: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[Lighthorse]

Pathfinder,

I upload your later AI files.
I received the following errors;
Error Ai Reserach
Unknown valve "Psyco-tech control" for tech area name in record "Psyco-tech control".
Unknown valve "Psyco-tech control" for tech area name in record "Psyco-tech control".
Unknown valve "Psyco-tech control" for tech area name in record "Psyco-tech control".
Unknown valve "ShagToth Shag Toth weapon" for tech area name in record "ShagToth Shag Toth weapon".

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I'll post the corrected AI later...should be Psyco-Tech not Psyco-tech DOH! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

AND need to delete that double shagtoth (they do not have advanced weapons) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Thanks for pointing that out!

[Lighthorse]

Pathfinder and Val,

I'm play testing the Shadows.
Neat weapons and ships are so cool.
They don't have small or medium satillites in they research areas? If B5 mod have no weapon platforms, and no satillites, that makes to a little hard to defence ones planets?
Also keeping tracked of research for the Shadows.
I will forward it to you later, Val.

Lighthorse

[Dead Meat]

Lighthorse: Would you mind cc the research for the Shadows to me also so i can take a look at it for the game?

[Lighthorse]

Originally posted by Dead Meat:
Lighthorse: Would you mind cc the research for the Shadows to me also so i can take a look at it for the game?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Dead Meat,

I have no problem cc you a copy, unless Val doesn't want us sharing that information. Tell you what, let's share the research on the Shadows. I'm at present at turn 137, with 59 items of research just completed. I plan to stop at turn 250. If you do the same, then we can exchange research notes. I would be very interested in what your researched for the Shadows, since you have been testing them too. So far the Shadows are un-stoppable. They only threat is EA, and that no contest. I'm have backed off the Shadows ( They would have won by turn 150), and just going to wait and watch the other AI empires slowly grow.
Dead Meat, you should have no problems with the Shadows, just remember the Narn Regime are on your side. We're friendly to the Shadows.

Lighthorse

[ October 26, 2002, 09:21: Message edited by: Lighthorse ]

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: Hmm...no satellites? The Shadows SHOULD have them....must me be an oversight on my part... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif oops.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Edite: They do (currently) have up to level three (of 4 possible) satellite research. level 2 is about half-way down the research tree.

There are WPs but equipped only (in designcreation) with PD...they have proven useful in most of my tests as fighters are (with matter weapons) one of the few things that can destroy a planet without having to invade...

BTW ALL Shadow molecular-tech based weapons, both ship and fighter born can damage planets.

[ October 26, 2002, 16:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]