Babylon 5 Mod

[pathfinder]

The ultraefficient Gravimetric engines have 8 movement per engine then add 1 bonus movement point and 1 bonus combat movement point. IIRC the bonuses are 1 time (not per engine).

There was a discussion awhile ago (May, early June) about the issue of limiting the # of engines, can't remember the outcome.

[pathfinder]

For those of you who want the B5 Gold MOD (done by PDF) here is a link (sorta) to the MOD Forum:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000002;p=3

look for a post by PDF on June 4, 2002.

It is before Val's Last patch but is Gold compatible....

[killer]

My dad's PC isn't working well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Mabey it's that.

[Timstone]

The link Pathfinder provided leads to a file I also DL'ed. This works perfectly, but (there always seems to be a "but...") with thst file installed I can't build any ships. And the "Races" directory is indeed filled with pictures of ships and the like. Strange, isn't it?

Thnaks for the little toturial you wrote for the noobs under the B5Mod Users (like myself).
Again, keep up the good work!

[pathfinder]

Timstone: Build ships? Are you trying to make .emp (saved empire or race) files or new ships sets for new races? If trying to make .emp files. Use the AI_general file to build the race characteristics then save file (in-game menu). IIRC there is a tutorial in the Gold manual on how to do this (if not maybe on the CD?) If you want to make new ship pics-the game has no editor as such to do that, those who make new shipsets use 3d party 3d modeling and/or graphics programs.

The races folder within the pictures folder (then a folder for each individual race) is a normal SEIV convention.

Here is an article by Tampa_Gamer on MODs and MODding in SEIV: http://www.cgOnline.com/tips/spaceempir-04-t1.html

Also here is a link to the SEIV launcher by Matryx (and his Mod Launcher): http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000002;p=7

Just look for his post(s) on that thread page.

What I am saying here is: Me confused as to what the problem is??!!

[ August 30, 2002, 10:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[HEMAN]

Timestone,you can't build any ships?,Do this on setup with a race go to (advance trait) and select B5 Standerd race 0, or nomadic 0 this will show begining ships to build in ship design window.This is a MUST to build any ships in the game. Note;I made this mistake of Not selecting this, because i thought it was some cheap begining tecks of sorts.

Ferengi Rules of Acquisition #89 Ask not what your profits can do for you,But what you can do for your Profits

[ August 30, 2002, 11:30: Message edited by: HEMAN ]

[Timstone]

Ah yes, now I see.
And could you give me/us a brief ist of wich races are complete? And wich major things need to be done before the whole mod is ready. I know, a good mod is never completely ready.

[pathfinder]

None of the AI are complete; however, I have done some very basic AI (race specific research and designcreation) for the following: Earth Alliance, Minbari, Centauri, Narn regime, Shadows have basic less armor (they only have inert not the full blown passive armor(s)), Vree and Brakiri.

I'll have to update the zip file I have in the shrapnel MOD forum as I have updated/added to the files in it since I posted it Last week.

Some of the things left to do are (IIRC): Vorlon weapon tech tree/area, pics for at least two (2) of the Minbari race-specific weapons, update to the default_AI files with more complete research and designcreation files. Finish the Abbai, LLort, Markab, Grome and Gaime neutral race AI files (several have race-specific weapon tech trees). IIRC, Val said there are some tech areas not implemented that need to be done (1 I remember is that industry has 3 levels, not one as implemented atm).

[ August 30, 2002, 22:30: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Jamorobo]

Pathfinder: Have you removed Shields from the Ai research list in the latest ai files for each race and default? I't's just i checked the minbari computer opponent in my latest game after adding your ai patch and found that they had researched 7 levels of shield research even though there arn't any shields to get! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Anyway the new ai is a bit better than the default ai even though there was a minor problem with the Centuri research files with RCE on "Ecm" and it looking for the "weapon platform" tech when it's actually "Platforms". I was wondering is the centuri the only race that researches better weapon platforms as races such as minbari don't have them in there research files.

I've also noticed with the ai that they won't build attack ships bigger than corvetts and any ship bigger than that is a specialist ship eg. minelayer. they do have the technology for big ships and they also have designs for large warships but they never build them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
It becomes a problem when i start pushing through the galaxy with my authentic EA Battle crUsers (Which i'm very pleased with) and i'm pushing aside escorts armed with medium laser 2's, with my laser/pulse array 8 wielding hulks of death http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I think this might be down to them not having good enough engines as most of the space in the ai's big ships ends up as early engines insted of weapons.

The ai's going well though and to my suprise the ai is coping well as the vorlons and the shaddows. the vorlons have captured 4 planets off the minbari in a war in my recent game. The shadows however were stuck behind 4 black holes in the game so they couldn't really get anywhere.

Oh that reminds me can we please have less black holes when creating a galaxy as two races have been screwed in my game as they can't expand as there are black holes in the way ( try sending an early colony ship through a black hole sector http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Other then that the mods damn cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[pathfinder]

Ach, I REALLY need to upload the latest Version of the files. I had several typos in the Centauri. Dunno why the Minbari are researching shields as they are NOT in the Minbari_AI_research file.....

Val (others?) decided to not include shields (very few, if any B5 races had them...maybe in later for those that did as a race trait)

*Da path wanders off aimlessly muttering about getting a molecular disruptor and disrupting the Minbari research minister* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Me been wunderin' wtf on that warships no bigger than frigates too...but in my Last coupla tests the Narn at least have been building destroyers (real ones---with those *&^%$# ion torpedoes...bleah). Maybe the AI research files need propulsion researched earlier to get those larger (standard & advanced) engines.

[ August 30, 2002, 23:23: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Jamorobo]

well shields appear in ALL of your new (BETA) ai research files

Firstly....

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 10
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

and then secondly...

AI State := Not Connected
Tech Area Name := Shields
Tech Area Level := 5
Tech Area Min Percent := 25

These are the only 2 mentions of shields in each of the research files. I think this is also true in the defalt ai research file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think this is what is causing the problem with them researching shields http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was gonna see if i gave the ai in my game all my propultion tech up to gravametric engines, if they would start building big ships, however i just deleted all my save games for old ai b5 so i could start afresh with new ai about an hour ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif oh well!

Also is there any way u can make it so the ai uses population transports and ships pop to other planets as it would make them alot better as there colonys otherwise take YEARS to build the simplist of things.

[Timstone]

HEMAn got it right! That's what I meant. Hmm... so I have to click that little thingie? Alright, I'll try it. Thanks!

[pathfinder]

Yup, you're correct. I just finished checking them myself....forgot to look at unconnected....

I'll fix and post a new set in the MOD forum in a few.

population minister SHOULD be doing that....???? maybe another AI minister needs some disruptor "persuasion"? Tell me about how long it takes! even with a fleet of transports it can take years to get even a manufacturing colony (hub?) built much less a colony hub or homeworld hub..

[ August 31, 2002, 00:18: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

ah ha! and if ya want race-specific stuff you gotta put in the race (see the AI_general file for the trait name). matter of fact ya gotta have BOTH to get it "right".

[pathfinder]

Update is delayed. I keep getting the following error when I try to upload:

"Illegal File Format (extension)
You can not upload this file format"

I used a newly created .zip (made by winzip) but it won't load. I have contact Shrapnel to see what can be done.

[Jamorobo]

I've found that Manufactoring hubs and Colony/homeworld hubs are the worse thing you could put on a planet with lots of slots as you can only have 1 space yard on a planet and the above count as one so no Colony hub and a space yard on the same planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif . This gets even more anoying whn trying to build other stuff afterwards as. eg. a colony hub can produce with 300 minerals a turn. However it will lower the minerals/turn on a planet even if with out one the population creates stuff using more minerals per turn.

eg. the population of 4000mil on a planet builds at 1600minerals/turn. I'f u stick a colony hub on it reduces it to 300min/turn and just adds on a production bonus for population size !!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

This is why i allways build a space yard on all my planets first even if it takes about 2yrs to do it as after that building are produced much quicker!

[pathfinder]

my .zip must have been corrupt(?). I made another one and it took. Updated files are at :

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001

the zip file is: 1030751107.zip.

Hope the errors are gone.

Jamboro: There are other advantages to a colony hub/homeworld hub. Me, I make MOST colonies as a manufacturing colony but combines with mining and/or agricultural colony. Homeworld helps get pluses for any fleets engaged in combat in-system. Also helps with morale and storage of materials and add cargo space...spaceyards don't. As in all things, trade-offs are there...*shrug*

[ August 31, 2002, 00:57: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Jamorobo]

About how long it takes....

A planet with 4mill ppl on it will take 14.0 yrs to make a space yard.

A planet with 254mill ppl on it will take 7.0 yrs to make a space yard.

that 250mill was moved by 1 population trans with 2 cargo modules on it 600kt of cargo space i think

I think that is alot of differance in time, thats a whole 70 turns difference in the creation of a space yard! so you can see that just moving 1 lot of population can make the ai much more of a chalange as it will over time have a bigger industry for research and materials which is allways a good thing in gameplay terms.

[pathfinder]

I know Jamboro, I simply do NOT know HOW to tell that population minister to get off his/her arse and move the population... except when I am the Emperor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 31, 2002, 01:00: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[oleg]

SE population minister works this way :
-- It moves population only to "native" atmosphere planet. That is if you are oxygen, no methan planets will ever receive any transports http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I do not know what will happen when you capture homeworld of another atmospher race. I suspect it will not move them though.

-- In every moment there is only one "target" planet to get population, all transports are always directed to one particular planet. According to my observations, it is the closest planet with native atmosphere to homeworld.

-- Sometimes AI turns transports back. Ships must have about 150% supplies to make round trip. Otherwise they will be caught in silly "resuply" loop without moving any population at all.

-- I still do not know when AI decides when one planet get enough people and switch to another planet. I suspect it is when "population bar" is filled up to 2/3

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by oleg:
SE population minister works this way :
-- It moves population only to "native" atmosphere planet. That is if you are oxygen, no methan planets will ever receive any transports http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I do not know what will happen when you capture homeworld of another atmospher race. I suspect it will not move them though.

-- In every moment there is only one "target" planet to get population, all transports are always directed to one particular planet. According to my observations, it is the closest planet with native atmosphere to homeworld.

-- Sometimes AI turns transports back. Ships must have about 150% supplies to make round trip. Otherwise they will be caught in silly "resuply" loop without moving any population at all.

-- I still do not know when AI decides when one planet get enough people and switch to another planet. I suspect it is when "population bar" is filled up to 2/3<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1-yup...

2-yup...

3-doesn't apply to B5..or have nOT sen it in a LONG time anyways..

4-It usually stops at around 600-700 million regardless of how much population the planet can hold (unless of course that is less than 600-700 millions) then IIRC the 2/3 rule applies.

[pathfinder]

Question on ship size: What determines what size ships to build. I (and others) have noted that the AI only build to the level of destroyer (me) or frigate (others). The vehiclesize.txt files for B5 seem to be ok, so what controls WHAT size is actually built? Only vehicles that are bigger are specialty ships such as mine layers, troop transports, etc.

[oleg]

Does it design bigger ships ? If not, then problem is with designcreation.txt. If designs exist but AI does not build, problem is in vehicleconstruction.txt - check out out what names are used in that file and how do they corrspond to design names in designcreation.txt

[pathfinder]

yeah designs made but not built...thanks!

only ship mentioned in vehicleconstruction.txt (default) is attack ship, which is NOT mentioned at all in designcreation...hmmmm..???

ugh..me gonna gets sick....guess this means race-specific vehicleconstruction.txt files need to be made....*whaaaa* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Anyone with suggestions on how to make race-specific vehicleconstruction file? Remember most races have some unique race-only weapons so EA cruiser will be Much different from Narn (for example) so a "generic" attack ship won't do (if I understand this correctly).

In other words, what ship size do I put into that file...destroyer, cruiser, ?????? or do I actually make an attack ship in the design creation with that races "best" weapon? same with defense ship??

Confoosed: All the ships (scout to base ship) have listed "attack ship" as "type" ....so why aren't the light cruisers and above being built?

[ August 31, 2002, 14:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[oleg]

Using "attack ship" in construction file should work. Are you using 1.49 or Gold ? They treat construction.txt very differently. Also, check out AI_setting.txt file. First several lines set up maximum hull size to be used for how many turns from start. It is unlikely to be a problem, but check anyway.

To learn how to make race-specific construction files, check latest TDM. Most original races have truly unique files !

[ September 01, 2002, 04:42: Message edited by: oleg ]

[pathfinder]

Oleg: I use both, though "officially" the MOD is only being tested atm for 1.49.

eeeewwww...some had no values there....

[ September 01, 2002, 05:26: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Next question: Would the Raiders be a B5 Nomadic race?

[ September 01, 2002, 05:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Lighthorse]

Pathfinder

Next question: Would the Raiders be a B5 Nomadic race?
I would think so, I don't remember the raiders having a homeworld. Thus they would be nomadic, right.

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: That was my line of thinking, just wanted to make sure it wasn't the beer thinking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Timstone]

Ehh... when does someone release a Version of the Raider shipset?

[pathfinder]

Timstone: the set I have is very incomplete (from Val's Last update), just enough to prevent most in-game errors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I been beefing up its AI along with the others. Though this is one I have not as yet done the research and designcreation on....yet..

[ September 01, 2002, 15:34: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Haha, we'll wait, us fans are patient. Keep up the good work.

[Fyron]

So, umm... are we gonna be playing that PBW game anytime soon? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I strongly suggest that it be done in Gold.

[pathfinder]

IF: dunno, Val wanted to get the Vorlon tech done and a few graphics/component pics done but I haven't heard a peep out of him in several weeks.

[Fyron]

Me neither. Vorlon techs would be nice for a Vorlon player to have in a PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[J.]

I understand the mod ain't ready yet, so in the future are the vorlons and shadows not allowed to get the colony techs since I read that they won't be ablo to colonize? Or have I understood it wrong? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Oh and how many people are making this mod, so does anyone know when it'll be finished? thanks

[pathfinder]

Mod is nearly finished for v 1.49 (non-Gold). Some of the racial techs have to be put into the techarea.txt file, componet pics made for them then the AI developed. Some of the AI need AI or the AI more polished. Some race-specific weapon pics need to be made. You guess is as good as mine as to when it'll be finished.

As for the Vorlons and Shadows colonizing *shrug* don't matter to me on way or the other (though the Shadows weapons, especially fighter weapons are awesome, almost unbalanced).

[Fyron]

That is partially why they can't colonize. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif They don't really need it to become powerful.

[Rambie]

Val, me and a two others were playing a non-gold game and noticed some peculiarities. I was working with him on a new Facility data file for the non-gold Version.

Did he sent it to anyone else? If not I can pass it on.

I'm looking for more players for a non-gold game, so if you'd like to join let me know.

Thanks,

[Fyron]

I'll sign up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[AGoetz]

I am interested as well. Don't know how well I'd go as I've never played SEIV multi before.

[Timstone]

You just struck 1300 replies!! This thread is by far the largest in the list (well the first list anyway)!! Celebrate!!

[Lighthorse]

I can't get other races(co2 breathers) that I (I started with oxygen) have captured to colonizes other types (Co2) of atmospheres/planets. As anyone else had this problem too?

[Nomor]

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
I can't get other races(co2 breathers) that I (I started with oxygen) have captured to colonizes other types (Co2) of atmospheres/planets. As anyone else had this problem too?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I always used to colonise with my EA (O2) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif and then ship them out and replace them with the appropriate type of atmosphere http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif breathers/population. I can't remember if putting CO2 breathers on a colony ship had any effect on the actual colonising process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif What exactly is not happening? This may be a new bug? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (These Graemlins are great)

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: Beats me, I never tried colonizing with the captured races.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
I can't get other races(co2 breathers) that I (I started with oxygen) have captured to colonizes other types (Co2) of atmospheres/planets. As anyone else had this problem too?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is it possible that you started a game with "home atmosphere types only" ? If yes, then all other planets will still be "blank" even if you have the appropriate people. Otherwise, it should work just fine - planet is still labeled with red star but once you put the right people it will be undomed.

[killer]

My dad's PC won't let me go to PBY.

Could any of you add a link on a thred so I can get the B5 mod there.

killer out

[ September 04, 2002, 05:19: Message edited by: killer ]

[Lighthorse]

Thanks Oleg, I did start game with "home atmosphere types only". I didn't think that should cause a different. Live and learn
Thanks to Nomor for your reply too.

Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Killer:

http://seiv.pwb.cc

Make an account and enjoy the Download Section!

[Mylon]

You made a typo. That's http://seiv.pbw.cc

pwb asks if you want to buy the domain.

[Timstone]

Woops! Thanks for noticing.

[Lighthorse]

Val,

Weapon platforms for B5mod, there some discussion about removing them from B5 mod. I use them in my game to prevent other races from using my planets as targets. I would prefer to keep the small weapon platform around and do away with the medium and large size weapon platforms. I do use the sat/mines/fighter/bases later in the game, but I find small weapon platforms service well in the first part of each game, protecting new colonies.

Lighthorse

[Suicide Junkie]

Bunkers! Everybody needs bunkers! When you have a whole bunch of armor platforms on the surface, your valuable people can survive combat. With the changes to armor & defenses, it is likely that a few ships will manage to limp past your lines and fire some potshots. Get your people underground, and save lives http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just remove most of the weapons from the platform options. Missiles might be OK to leave in (shorter range maybe?), some range-1 PD would be reasonable too.

[pathfinder]

SJ: In the designcreation files I have done, PD weapons are the only choice given. not sure if th AI will load other weapons but they are not scripted. not sure how to script an armor requirement...

[AGoetz]

Got a range check during the AI's turn Last night (I'm just playing solo). Anyway I can determine what caused that? The game died at that point.

The situation : As the Earth Alliance I'm fairly small (about 12 systems) and have just assimilated one of the neutrals that was near me (the other agreed to a partnership treaty and I'm going to honor it for now). Each of the 6 jump points out of my controlled territory has a fleet containing 1 Medium Repair Tug, 1 Carrier (200 Heavy Fighters - Paired Uni-Pulse guns) and 2 Cruisers (Medium Lasers and Standard Particle Beams). The fighters are the main force, the ships are just for support. None of the AIs have yet tried to expand in my direction (one Shadow Escort paid me a visit but the Destroyer/Corvette fleet I had present at the time didn't even take any damage from that dark foe).
In terms of size the Narn, Centuri, Minbari and League make me look tiny - the League has 200 planets across almost 40 systems and is generating more research points then me.

[Timstone]

When does there come a new dowmnload, a next piece of the puzzle called the B5Mod?
I'm really looking forward to it.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: You may want to change to the offending race for the turn that the RCE showed up (if you have a save game immediately prior to the RCE). My mememory is susoect but IIRC the RCE is usually caused by an AI doing something outside the norm...so if you take over, the AI doesn't do that unusual/forbidden task and the RCE doesn't happen.

[Nomor]

Question: Is there a Facility design option that would allow for the creation of more living space on a planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Could we have a facility called, say "Underground Habitat" that when built would increase the population value for a given planet. Or is the only option to convert the atmosphere to one your people can breath.

I'm thinking specifically of None Atmosphere and Alien Atmosphere planets?

I've looked in the facilities files and can't figure out if this would work. I'm using the Non-Gold Version ie 1.49.

Does the Gold Version cater for this type of thing?

Anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ September 06, 2002, 01:43: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[pathfinder]

Not realy Nomor. Val has not implemented the additional levels of HW hub, colony Hub and manufacturing colony. Though I am not certain those will increase population capacity. It dowa thru upgraded hubs allow additional storage, cargo and minerals/radioactives/organics.

[Lighthorse]

Hey Pathfinder,

What happen to Deeply religious ? I use it for the Narns, and my research only receivies nothing as results. Is organic manipulation water down or has nothing too?
Just wondoring what to used for the Narn, if there isn't religious or organic, maybe Psychic.

Lighthorse

[HEMAN]

To those that might be confused with research that show 0 & no teck.I just found out that Hyperspace studies shows 0 on research?, but I researched it 3 times and Whala?, jumpgate tecknlogie came up & with componet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif .SO Results for players. Research tecks that have 0 and eventully you will recieve somthing?.perhaps in other areas untill it is not highlighted or somthing pops up in research?.

[jimbob]

HEMAN: until the help file is put together (which I foolishly offered to help with http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) you'll need to go into the Components text file (in Data folder) and search for what various technologies will allow you to build (use the search function).

Sometimes it's difficult to figure out what technology prerequisites are needed for further research, and so in that case you'll need to crawl about the underbelly of the TechArea text file.

Hope that helps.

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: the key, as jimbob puts it is in looking through componets, techarea and facilities files. Laborious undertaking ....

and you have to look for EACH race as they all have different traits/abilities/techs

and somethings Val, et al have not "turned-on" yet. In all hoensty, even though I been testing since April and have, on my own recognance, been dabbling in the research & designcreation files, I have not gotten all the techs/abilities/etc figgered out yet...

[ September 06, 2002, 23:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

Has anyone heard from Val recently? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
He may have got lost hiking and broken is mobile phone. Should we a send search party? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[pathfinder]

Nomor: I haven't heard from him but Rambie is apparently deep in a PBW game on the MOD with him and several others. My guess he is deep in upgrading and fixing things in the MOD.

[Lighthorse]

Thanks Guys, I guess I got to do a digging into the technology tree.

Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Brennan]

Hey, just wanted to take a second to post. I am really looking foward to the gold Version of this mod. Keep up the good work guys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Just to let you know, the B5 mod was one of the main reasons I got this game. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way! Thanks.

[pathfinder]

Lighthorse: If you want, I'll e-mail a spreadsheet I did so I could have a bit easier time making the AI_research and AI_designcreation.txt files.

[Nomor]

Just to stir the pot whilst Val and co are off PBW-ing.....

Three things I'd like MM to implement: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

1) Fighters to be able to use Jump Gates/Worm Holes.

OK ..I know it has been said that they were too powerful in the beta but it would be possible to limit them in other ways to make for a balanced game. We could have smaller point defence weapons for a start, say @ 3 to 5 kT.

2) Reactors... a component that produced 'X' amount of supplies independent of any other factors such as Suns or Nebulas

3) An ability to increase /decrease population values on a planet based on good/bad practises such as Eco friendly terraforming/hostile mining or underground habitation/industrial pollution-waste. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

We should make a list. Comments anyone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 07, 2002, 23:00: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[jimbob]

1) Fighters to be able to use Jump Gates/Worm Holes.

OK ..I know it has been said that they were too powerful in the beta but it would be possible to limit them in other ways to make for a balanced game. We could have smaller point defence weapons for a start, say @ 3 to 5 kT.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Warp capability for fighters would be great.
But when you decrease the size of point defences, you will decrease the potency of missiles too. I would hope to solve this problem by the introduction of a new ability ("fighter warp" or "hyperspace motivator") so that the player could choose to make some fighter warp capable by adding a specific component. Then we could mod this component to be larger or smaller as game balance dictates.

[Nomor]

Jimbob: In the B5 series fighters needed to transmit a code to activate the jumpgate. You also had to pay to use jumpgates controlled by other races. Once jumpgate tech is researched it could be possible to have some sort of tech or component such as Jumpgate Sequencer to activate the jumpgate. "hyperspace motivator" I like that name; good for Warp points.

I take it that's two votes for Fighters Jumping gates. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 08, 2002, 00:21: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[jimbob]

Han Solo in Star Wars talked about the "hyperspace motivator" if my memory serves.

[Lighthorse]

Pathfinder,

Please email your spreadsheet of the AI_research and AI_designcreation.txt files.
My email address is res0br0j@verizon.net.
Still can't find anything on religious or organic technologys.

Thanks
Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Lighthorse]

Nomor,

I checked for those B5 books at Bridgetown Hobby shop today. They weren't there, must where been sold. Try Agenys of gaming, they printed all the B5 books. Looked at some other books, they only the races for which they were written. That should be a heavy invertment to made.

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

Lighhthorse: Done. I don't have all races on it but it should help some at least. It is mostly concerned with weapons. Also no organic or psychology tech available atm IIRC. There IS psychic so that the EA can develop Combat psychics (Psy-corps) to combat the Shadows living CPU's.

[Lighthorse]

Thanks Pathfinder

Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

ooooopps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[AGoetz]

2 Questions :

AI's with either 'Ancient' or 'Nomadic' never seem to get anywhere in the games I've started. Is there anyway of giving them a kick start?

Is there anyway of getting those 'Normal' AI players to build a combat hull larger than a Destroyer? My Heavy Cruisers are getting sick of swatting Corvettes. If giving the AIs both Propulsion and Gravimatric tech will do it, I'll happily comply. I'm already the Mega Evil Empire and haven't expanded my system count for the Last 200+ turns just to try to get some decent assualts out of the AI (The Minbari are trying the hardest, they have their 'Error:Cannot view' guns mounted on their ships and Scattering Armour)

[pathfinder]

1-Val coded it so that the Ancients (Vorlons & Shadows) can only colonize by either invasion or having planets gifted to them. Not sure how to give a kick to the Nomads.

2-I been wondering why the AI only builds warships to destroyer size. They will design larger, just won't build them. They will design and build large specialty ships (eg mine layer/sweeper).

[Suicide Junkie]

AGoetz:
You are missing the imagemod componentpack.
I have a link to it on my homepage (see top bar in this post; the house icon)

[Timstone]

SJ: could you give the link to your site?

[Timstone]

Sorry, I didn't look under your profile. I got it now, thanks!

[javaslinger]

How's the Gold Version of the Babylon 5 mod coming? Or actually is the latest build of Babylon 5 finished testing?

Thanks,

Ken

[pathfinder]

javaslinger: beats me, I haven't heard from Val in weeks. The only "official" Version is what Val posted to PBW and it is for 1.49 (non-Gold). Yes, one could mod the mod by putting the correct script in the AI_settings.txt and AI_fleet.txt files....*shrug* .

[Timstone]

Where is the alleged Val actually? does anybody knows that?

[Nomor]

I have a premonition that Val will be making contact ...soon......
very...soon.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Lighthorse....you have a private message... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 10, 2002, 23:03: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Val]

One hell of a premonition

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by Val:
One hell of a premonition<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well Val now your here, any updates for the mod? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif *HINT* *HINT*

Any NEW mod updates? *Big Hint*

By any chance are you going to give us the up dated files? *Big, Huge, Mega beast of a hint*

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Val]

I'm pretty impressed with the activity in my absence; I have one hell of a read ahead of me!

Anyway, sorry about the extended time MIA, had a little mishap with my car (well – thankfully a rental car) followed by a pipe bursting in my corporate apartment which did a number on my laptop and all my paper notes (not to mention some of my reference books), to make matters worse, my new apartment was sans-phone until this past weekend.

Unfortunately, I lost quite a bit of work, but fortunately I had just posted most of the Mod to PBW and had backed up a good amount to send to Rambie for the new (and improved) B5 Mod website he’ll be hosting.

I’ve managed to recover a lot of stuff and am working on what I remember changing, as well as re-adding everything people had sent me in the B5mod@yahoo.com account (if you had mail returned due to space restrictions, please try to resend to me now). Some of the things lost that I am currently rewriting are – EM Weapons, revised Intel, Technomagi player, Vree Shipset and AI. Right now I’m about half done with the EM stuff and am hard at work on fixing the Intel stuff (one of the few surviving note sheets).

Anyway, I have a TON of reading to catch up with and see what wonderful directions y’all have taken this mod to.

I will try to compile up a release in the next week or so with all the latest and make comments/replies to all I have missed.

Edit - Jamorobo, I'll make sure you are one of the first to know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 10, 2002, 22:07: Message edited by: Val ]

[Val]

Damn, had to go back and print out the past 19 pages just to get current! Y'all been busy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Hehe...nice to see ya back Val!

Sent ya the latest in my Version of the AI_designcreation and AI_research files.

[pathfinder]

*bangs head on desk* whhaaaaa!

I just did the AI_designcreation and AI_research for the Abbai...but no shipset....DOH!

[Val]

Ok, I've read up to August 30th, still have more to go, hope this stuff hasn't been covered already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

First off - thank you to Pathfinder, Fyron, SJ and so many others for fielding all the Q&A for me while I was away.

Zero Adunn
Many of the obscure races have some minor weapons or components, and not too much more. This is why their Racial Trait is usually less expensive than other races. That being said, I also wanted to have the structure in place for further expansion, as any changes to the RacialTraits file messes up the Empire files.

Pathfinder
Excellent work on the AI, I'll add it to the newest release.
Jumpgates/engines tech was added mainly for humans to use - like for PBW - so it may need some reworking for it to work well for AI. Also, Jump generators were very expensive to build as it required a rare element to produce it (Q40 I believe). Most races had access to Jump tech, though only the major races are quoted as having built gates - even though it was said they don't fully understand the tech behind it.
Ion Bolts - There are actually 2 Versions of the Ion Bolt, one for fighters and one for ships.

Rambie
Thanks for posting the link and hosting the mod.

Geo
Thanks for hosting the mod and PBW games and the compliments, hope we can live up to expectations.
The limit of races right now is due to shipsets, many more are in the works and you can get the 'unfinished' races from Rambie's site (I think). Always looking for volunteers for more shipsets?

Timstone
What Version SE are you using?

Nomor
I had an idea a while ago (or maybe someone else had the idea and I'm confusing myself) to use the sphere/ring world components to make Space Stations that could be assembled at remote locations and support a population, but haven't worked it in yet.

Javaslinger
As Fyron said, priority is on the Classic Version because I don't want to not have it available for owners of SE IV Classic (double negative is proof positive), plus (as mentioned by others) it is easier to convert up to Gold rather than down. I'm looking forward to converting it, but only after it is relatively 'complete'. Also, I preordered Gold minutes after I saw it was announced and can hardly wait to implement some of the newer features into the mod. I just really want to support the 'old timers' that have yet to upgrade.

Gil
Hey, if you still want to update the mod to Gold for us, please go right ahead, then send me the Data folder and AI folders and I will ask Rambie if he can post them on his page. Anyone want to help him?

Jimbob
'None' expecteed for results - this is usually due to requiring more than one tech for a true result (as you already discovered) and this does make it a pain for newbies, I really gotta make that tech map (if only in the interest of saving your marriage, job and nap time)! There are also a few techs that really do give nothing, they are in place for future expansion work I'm doing - new components and facilities for example.
I'll check on the laser weapon descriptions and reload times. I think I intended the Hyach weapons to fire faster than other races as they specialize in Laser tech.
Also, thanks for the compliments.

Jamorobo
Right now I don't think anyone has programmed the AI to use jumpgates, as I said to Pathfinder, I had really intended to use them only for strictly human player games. In the one hotseat game I had going, we actually made a 'hyperspace' zone (like SJs FTL map) and you could only jump into hyperspace, then you had to navigate through the warp and could jump out into normal space through existing gates or using the jump engine.
I've also been meaning to fix the pulse weapons. They are meant to be a bit better than Lasers, though they have lower range and higher energy costs, their sizes are a bit off though.

AGoetz
Shadows and Vorlons are unable to colonize planets because - 1) In the spirit of the show, they are meant to be more like Neutrals than a conquering race. 2) In tests that let them run wild they became all but imposible to beat, and that was with crappy AI, I can't even imagine it now with the newer AI. 3) You can give them the ability to colonize by making them a Standard race instead of an ancient race, no Ancient race can colonize (Torvalus, Kirshiac, Vorlon, Shadows, Mind Riders, Walkers, Triad - also Third Space).

Ideas I have picked out (from Posts, e*mails and my notes):
1 - Add more cargo to domed facilities
2 - Smaller Jump Drive for White Star style ships
3 - Special Shadow/Vorlon tech ships for younger races (white stars and shadow omegas)
4 - Asteroid Belts provide low level cloaks
5 - Listening Post, try to limit scan ranges
6 - Ring/Sphere World space stations
7 - Armor and anti-infantry for WPs
8 - Add at least one basic weapon for each class of weapon types

Things to fix:
1 - Laser weapon reload times for Hyach ships
2 - Colony hub reduces build per turn from 1000 to 300 - anyone else have this issue?
3 - Fix Jump Gate 4's pre-req levels
4 - Fighter weapon ranges (actually, Simon is hard at work on some of this)
5 - Pulse Weapon cost/size
6 - Descriptions for some things
7 - Harm Missile disruption times (oops)
8 - AP Missile - recheck why I did what I did
9 - Molecular Disruptor picture

I still have more to read and catch up on, but so far so good.

[pathfinder]

Question on shipsets: Abbai, based on the Agents of Gaming minatures had really very different styles for each class of ship....and so far all I can find are a cruiser, a frigate, a carrier and a fighter...how much license would a shipset modeler have *hint* hehe...

I have done, in DOGA, something that sorta resembles the cruiser, the frigate is being a pain in the arse, haven't tried the carrier and fighter...

Val: That AI was pretty hastily thrown together. I keep finding boo boo's but what I sent tonight should be ok. Also, someone may want to look at how/when I placed some of the tech in research file(s). A different pattern/set-up may be desirable....me not sure how each race acts in the show (saw only a coupla shows).

[ September 11, 2002, 03:27: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Gil: If you want, I could zip the Gold B5 races folder I have for your "tweaking" if ya want.

Mine is a slightly updated Version (AI-wise anyways) of PDF's B5 Gold stuff posted back in June (based on the 1.49 B5 MOD).

[ September 11, 2002, 03:31: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

I've only played against the AI (and never finished a game as I always get a Range Check Error eventually - it is usually during the Minbari AI's processing and (on the Last occasion) trying to take over that side just before the crash didn't help as it occured after I hit End Turn but before the next player came up.

Currently playing with the Narn's trying out their Ion Torpedos. I forget the name of the weapon but going by the ingame displayed stats I don't see a real use for the Narn heavy ballistic weapon (at least at only a few levels of ballistics, all I've got so far). Compared to a same tech level Ion Torpedo, it's twice the size, twice the damage, same damage resistance on the seeker head, same seeker speed and massively more expensive.
Also, there is something wrong in the pricing for Medium and/or Heavy Passive Armour - Heavy Armour costs the same as Light while Medium costs much more?

I have been trying to get some decent attacks out of the AI, this game is a bit better in that way. My Narn empire started with just one jump point out - directly into the Minbari home system. I've lost count of just many Minbari ships I've blown up so far - there were 14 Frigates in one fleet that came through. However I'm up to a point now where I don't fear them - on that entrance point I have 6 Light Cruisers, 9 Destroyers, 3 Medium Repair Tugs and 195 Light Fighters (was 200) in 5 Groups. I can defeat most fleets that have come through to date in 2 tactical turns (1 to launch the Torpedoes, 1 to wait for them to reach their targets) - playing stratgic takes longer as the AI tends to have 3/4 of the fleet all fire at the same ship wasting a lot of shots. What I'll do next is put together an attack fleet so that I can finally do some expanding (will have to do some Point Defense research first, my exploration ships got taken out by fighters.

[Rainstorm]

I'm not really up to date on the modding going on with SEIV (I'm having fun just playing it) but being a B5 fan, and noticing some references to Agents of Gamings' B5 Wars stuff, is any of this being used in this mod? In particular any of the Ancient race (besides Shadows/Vorlons) stuff? If so, I have a good resource, since a friend of mine wrote that book and several of us beta tested it. I'm sure he'd be glad to go on at length about his theories for general fleet design for Walkers, Mindriders, as they are in that book. (Even if he doesn't play SE, to my knowledge.)

[Lighthorse]

Val,

The AI has got better in my latest game. The league of Non-Aligned worlds was my ally before attacking me without warning. They destroyed three planets before I could pushed them back. Interesting part, it was the first time the AI in B5 use a light carrier with 60 to 70 light fighters to destroyed my planets. It was turn 175 when they start our war. They light fighter were armed with light particle gun I, and power by fission engine I. They other vessels were armed with Light laser carron II, PDF Plasma II, Basic combat sensors and ECM level II. I have since pulled the Non-Aligned worlds back to only 17 planet from the orginal 22 before hostiles. Naturely all the other races declared war again my Narns too. Only down side is some (about a third) of the AI races are just sitting in they system and doing nothing.

Looking forward to B5/PBW game

Lighthorse

[pathfinder]

Rainstorm: So far only the Shadows and Vorlons have any AI tech and/or shipsets (at this point in development). I guess mainly because of the Ancients, they are the two races mostly seen in the show. It would be nice to have an expert on the Ancients give that information though. One of the difficulties I have had, especially on the minor and "miscellaneous" races, is finding information on them, especially what weapons compositions they normally used.

If the Ancients, any of them, used special formations that would be useful, as that can be easily modded into the game.

One thing I would personally ask is: Realize it is very difficult to get/produce "canon" models and behavior in this game. we all have made great efforts to make the MOD resemble the show as best we can buit 100% accuracy is probably out of the question. Constructive criticism is one thing, what happened ala the Star Trek race-styles is another.

[ September 11, 2002, 10:10: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Val:

Timstone
What Version SE are you using?

I'm using the Lastest Version of SE IV: Gold. Version 1.78
I got the mod running, but it misses many pictures and descriptions. I compiled my working Version from 2 Versions of the mod. But I won't play it now. I'll wait untill there is a decent Version for the gold edition.
Thanks for asking.
Keep up the good and hard work. I would like to participate in the hard, but fun, work on the mod. But I really have to do something about school. This year is "break or make".

[Val]

Timstone
Good luck with school! Hope to get the Gold mod out in the coming months to give you something to do over winter break http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Pathfinder
Be as creative as you like with an Abbai shipset, I had looked at them as well to start modelling a shipset, let me see if I can find any of the models I made, hopefully I didn't lose them!
As to the AI, as we find the mistakes in testing, we will continue to fix them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Yeah, it's almost impossible to get all of this stuff down as cannon, but we try to keep it in the spirit of the show (and supplemental materials) as much as possible.

AGoetz
Could you send/post a saved game? You are using SE IV Classic with 1.49.30 of the mod? Try to tell me the name of the weapon and I will check it for balance, not sure which one you are talking about.

Rainstorm
Yeah, I loved that book - congrats to your friend on a job well done! I have already added the Torvalus (including their drone fighters and stealth tech) and have added some stuff for the Walkers, Mindriders and Kirsh Lords, but have a lot more to go, such as adding in the new weapons he introduced in that book. I would love any insight he has, and if he'd like to do (or assist in doing) the AI general descriptions and history that would be great! My overall goal with the Ancients was to be able to include them in a 'neutral' form like the Shadows and Vorlons, but to have the option of making them a standard race and having an 'Primordial Ancients War'.

Lighthorse
Are you using Pathfinder's AI? I have seen the old AI use fighters a few times, glad to see it surprise you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lighthorse]

Val,

I don't think I was using Pathfinder AI, but its still an interesting game.
That what we all want, right.

Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Val:
Timstone
Good luck with school! Hope to get the Gold mod out in the coming months to give you something to do over winter break http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, but if everything goes well, I will have something completely different to do during the winterbreak. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
But if it doesn't go as planned, I will knock myself out with the B5Mod.

[Rainstorm]

Val: New private message for you.

[Jamorobo]

The new Ai update of pathfinders AI seems to have a problem..

Both minbari and narn are having problems with "Antimatter Utilization" tech Saying the value is incorrect.

This is also happening with narn's "Narn advanced molecular weapons" tech also saying the value is incorrect.

[Val]

Ok - read the rest of the Posts:

Rainstorm
Thanks! I'm talking with Matt to see what he is interested in doing.

Jimbob
Thanks for the offer to help on a help file, when do you want to start and what can I provide you to help it become a reality?

Brennan
Like that Ash quote!

Javaslinger
Gold... still not there, but maybe Gil or PDF might still be interested in converting the next release over to Gold.

AGoetz
Can you upload the savegame? Also, tell us which Versions of everything you are running (game wise).

newbie4ever
Ancient Colonies - see the post I made yesterday. There are actually quite a few people working on the mod contributing everything from Shipsets, Components, Artwork, AI, Descriptions through to Playtesters. You can check the Author line in the modinfo file to see the credits. Also - if I missed someone, please let me know!

Lighthorse
I left the standard racial traits in so a person (who was so inclined) could just append this mod right on top of the existing SE IV 1.49 and have them both work with a minimal of fuss.

Killer
Are you still having trouble d/ling the Mod?

HeMan
Good job finding the 'hidden' hyperspace techs, talk about persistance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Hopefully things like that would be solved in the tech tree.

Topics:

Shields - As mentioned way back, there aren't many races that use shields, mostly just the Vorlons and Abbai (and the Mindriders) the Brakiri have shields as well, though I believe they stole the tech from the Abbai.

Raiders - The shipset is far from complete, I was actually thinking of giving them a purposely incomplete shipset with a smaller range of ships.

PBW - Ok, who is still up for the PBW game and can someone volunteer to coordinate setting it up? I'd prefer to focus more on getting out the next release.

WP - I do know there were some mention of Planetary defenses, but for the most part they were in atmosphere weapons, so I think SJs idea to have special WP weapons that are very short range would be best. Opinions?

Other things to Fix:

1 - AI Shipbuilding to work for ships larger than destroyers.

2 - Galaxy creation to make a B5 Mod "Galaxy"

3 - AI Transport population

4 - Fix manufacturing/colony/homeworld production value bug

Have I missed anything?

[The Canuck]

hey Val from what ive seen of the mod u need help with the ship sets (if not ignore this post) i may be able to help, i know some people who have alot high poly models of B5, canon and non-canon, and also other that u could use for those odd races that didnt have their ships in the show that often or at all. so if u do need help just give me the go ahead and it will be done.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Jamorobo:
The new Ai update of pathfinders AI seems to have a problem..

Both minbari and narn are having problems with "Antimatter Utilization" tech Saying the value is incorrect.

This is also happening with narn's "Narn advanced molecular weapons" tech also saying the value is incorrect.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">1-Drat, thought I had gotten that out. Fix is that all lines with that statement should read "AntiMatter Utilization" Notice the capital "M" DOH! I'll fix that later tonight and post the fixed file(s) in the MOD Section.

2-Grr.....same here...that line needs to be deleted entirely. See above for fix.

[ September 11, 2002, 23:35: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

It'll be tonight (Australian time) before I'll get to send up my saves, they're all at home.
I'm using the 1.49.30 files to best of my knowledge.

[Val]

Austrailian time, eh?

The Canuck
Consider the light as green as possible. I'd love to see some Drazi, Pak'ma'ra and Brakiri, as we have them ready to go, they are just lacking shipsets. I do have some basic framework for them (see Rambie's site for the d/l). Raiders would be another good one - though (as I said) this one may not need things like dreadnoughts.

Progress Report:
Ok, starting to re-re-work the Intel into 4 new Groups so an empire can focus on particular types of Intel and also so these types could be individually removed rather than removing all of Intel.

The areas are:
1 - Espionage : Includes all information gathering Intel and Stealing Intel
2 - Black Ops : Includes all Intel that causes another empire damage in some tangible form
3 - Counter Intelligence : All the Intel defense and Intel sabotage (best defence is a good offence)
4 - Covert Support : This one I was playing with, the biggest issue is that the Counter-Intel will still prevent these pretty much beneficial Intel projects. The idea is to have things that can be used to decrease a planet's anger (Media Propaganda) and repair damaged ships that are too far from a repair ship (Repair Team). We'll see how this works out.

Additionally, the variable Intel Ops will improve as your level in that area improves - so a Ship Bomb will do increasingly more damage as your Op teams learn new tricks and research more powerful concealable explosives.

Opinions or ideas?

Off to watch Legend of the Rangers (the other LotR) on Sci-Fi channel. Talk to y'all later!

[pathfinder]

Ok, hopefully I got those Antimatter Utilization errors gone and the Narn Advanced Molecular Weapons error gone. also fixed some missing tech in the Centauri.

Go to the shipset/race forum and pick up file

1031794916.zip

[Val]

Thanks PF!

Here is what I have completed so far for the next release:

1.49.31 - Revised Intelligence into subcategories and added new Intel Ops. Fixed Torvalus cost in RacialTraits file. Added Vree and Technomage shipsets. Added AI for other races (Minbari, EA, Centauri, Narn, ShagToth, Shadows, Vree). Added Hyach Miniaturized Life Support and Aux Control. Fixed the Lasers descriptions. Fixed Jump Gate IV typo. Changed Aux Control to be smaller and harder to destroy. Halved tonnage space for Advanced and Elite ECM & Combat Sensors components as they are extensions of the Basic ECM & Combat Sensors.

Since I had to fix the Torvalus cost, the new RacialTraits file will invalidate any Empires y'all have setup in your games. Since I really hate messing them up, I want to make any other additions to this file that I can now. Any other races y'all want to see added? Any new racial traits to be added? Let me know ASAP.

[ September 12, 2002, 05:38: Message edited by: Val ]

[pathfinder]

Hmmm...I got the Hyach AI_designcreation done. Just need to do their AI_research and they will be done too. Guess I know what I'll be doing tommorow night http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Update: Wheeeeee.....initial draft Hyach done. I'll re-check and probably post them tommorow night.

[ September 12, 2002, 04:24: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Val, can you give us an estimate of when the new release will take place?

[pathfinder]

*bangs head on desk*

I forgot to include the Centauri advanced weapon techs in the AI_research file Last night. They have been updated, again

*walks way muttering about Cantinas, beer and...*

go find the following file in the race/shipset forum:

1031827673.zip

[Val]

Timstone
Next release within a week, just need to finish up the Vorlon weapons again so they are usable and make some of the other fixes I mentioned.

Pathfinder
Found an error in the ShagToth AI as well, do a search for Shadow ShagToth and replace with ShagToth Mega to fix. I really need to fix the Nomadic AI...

[Timstone]

Alright! I'm looking forward to it.

[Jamorobo]

I've just started a new B5 game as Earth Alliance and at around turn 29 i decided to save it, then looked at the narns just to check how the ai was doing by making them playable and then getting round to their turn. When i looked at what research they were doing i was very surprised to find that they had 49,000 research points and with this amount they had researched physics, industry, and three other 50000 pt research projects, all to level 1! and this is only 29 turns in, which was interesting as there planet could only produce 9000 research points a turn!

I decided to end the turn and see what happend to the research points next turn, i found that they had gone to the origional 9000! ( i guess this is because the computer saw a human was now playing the narns ) So what i'm asking is, is the comp given a research boost at the start which gives them say 40000 extra research points every turn for x amount of turns so they can keep up with the Human players or somthing? as they had researched quite alot in the 29 turns with included lots of 50000 rp research areas.

If it is doing this is it a general se4 thing or somthing you have done?

[Suicide Junkie]

You must have had the AI bonus set to high.
That gives a big multiplier to production and research. Also, the value shown in the research window was the amount of points that were generated during the Last turn processing (where the AI got the bonus.
Resources update continuously, so you don't see the AI bonus in that Category.

[Crazy_Dog]

where can i download the B5MOD ?

[Val]

You can d/l it at:

Rambie's Shipyards (http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce)

or

Play By Web (http://seiv.pbw.cc)

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
You must have had the AI bonus set to high.
That gives a big multiplier to production and research. Also, the value shown in the research window was the amount of points that were generated during the Last turn processing (where the AI got the bonus.
Resources update continuously, so you don't see the AI bonus in that Category.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok well i've only had the game 1yr and STILL didn't know that! I thought that the comp bonus was how much racial points the random comp players got http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So the bonus gives bonuses to research and production? well i be damned you learn somthing every day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Anyway what do u think are good settings/ what do u use, to have a B5 game on?

I usually have it on a medium galaxy with lots of empires on high dificulty level. i did have high bonus to ai players, but now i know what it really does i'm not too sure if i show have it high as it is really too much of an advantage to the ai ( turn 27 and the centuri have the first level of their main weapon which needs about 3 different theorteical sciences, where i have basic missile 2 and medium bLast cannons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) i might put it to none to make it so everyone is on an even platform, however this might make the Ai a real walkover!!!

[Fyron]

Ok... we will be starting the PBW game soon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It will be called Babylon 5 Game. Here is the most recent list (that I could find) of the players that wanted to play, and the race they wanted to play:

Pathfinder - SoulHunters
Imperator Fyron - Vorlons
Lighthorse - Narns
Milton - Centauri
Rambie (?) - EA
Gandalf - Undecided
Simon (?) - EA / BA / Raiders
Dead Meat - Shadows
Tesco Samoa - EA?
Zero Adunnn - Minbari
Jimbob - Hyach

Is everyone still interested in playing?

[jimbob]

ZeroAdunn and I switch races if that matters, but yes I'm in.

A friend of mine (call him StarGrazer for now) also wants to play, but we're not sure what races are still open.

[Dead Meat]

Yep

[ZeroAdunn]

Yah, sure I am in.

[Fyron]

Ok...

Pathfinder - SoulHunters
Imperator Fyron - Vorlons
Lighthorse - Narns
Milton - Centauri
Rambie (?) - EA
Gandalf - Undecided
Simon (?) - EA / BA / Raiders
Dead Meat - Shadows
Tesco Samoa - EA?
Zero Adunnn - Hyach
Jimbob - Minbari
Stargazer (?) - ?

[The Canuck]

ive downloaded the B5 core file and the sound files but where do i get the data file for GOld? the only one i can find is the one for the old SEIV.

[Nomor]

Lighthorse: You have a private message. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Canuk:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000002;p=3

This the Last Version of PDF's B5 Gold MOD. It was done back in June so it is a bit dated. You could get a data file from there. Not sure how compatible it is. I do not have any problems with it....Though you may have some difficulties as Val has updated the tech area (at least) in the 1.49 Version since then.

[pathfinder]

Fixed the errors Val reported with the ShagToth plus several I found. Added the Hyach AI_designcreation and Hyach AI_rsearch files.

Go to the race/ship set forum here and get file in my Last post there:

1031873798.zip

Remember 1 thing: The AI_designcreation and AI_research are the only two files I am working on atm.

[ September 13, 2002, 00:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Impatiently awaiting my copy of AOG "Ships of the Fleet 2". It has a CD with schematics of ships plus a book with background on many of the races in B5. Maybe I'll get some more information on Abbai ships design.

[ September 13, 2002, 02:56: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[jimbob]

pathfinder, Val, et. al.:
What Version of the B5 mod are we going to use? Will there be an update before we test?

Edit: cause I have to burn a CD each time I want to take it home. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ September 13, 2002, 03:00: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Val]

Pathfinder
Ships of the Fleet 1 & 2 are really cool books, I used the pics in them to design the Markab and Gaim ships I've done so far.

Jimbob
Using 1.49.30 - Classic SE IV. It's all posted up on PBW. There will be a patch for 1.49.31 very soon, I'm trying to get it out before the start date so the Vorlon weapons and new Intel are added in. I'm all but finished with the Intel, but still working on the weapons.

I can't remember if I already had added this in 1.49.30, so I'll ask y'all, is the tech Illusions in there? Along with the special Technomage ships?

[AGoetz]

I can see nothing about Illusions in the TechArea.txt file, though the Vehicle.txt file does mention the Technomage Pinnacle, looks like a faster Frigate if I'm reading those stats correctly.

I am interested in playing, but have idea of which side. If there is an under-represented side I could take that.

[ September 13, 2002, 03:20: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

[Val]

Thanks for the check on the Technomages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I don't really think there are going to be sides (other than the Vorlons and Shadows trying to influence the other races to their sides), for the most part it will be roleplaying the various races as the were in the show, with one exception - no preconceived notions of hatreds or alliances, as (in this alternate B5 universe) none of these races have encountered each other yet and so there was no Centauri enslaving the Narn or Earth Minbari War. This doesn't mean it won't happen though, as a Centauri player should be into empire building and the glory of the Centarum and would probabably try to take advantage of a weaker race. The only hatred that will be considered to be there from the start is between ancient races (ie: Vorlons and Shadows).

So, long story short (too late), you can pick any race you like that is not yet taken.

[ September 13, 2002, 03:52: Message edited by: Val ]

[AGoetz]

So I shouldn't see a Vorlon/Shadow Alliance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If there is a race that has functional graphics/tech tree that no one has taken yet, I'll play them.

[pathfinder]

Abbai: So far I have cobbled together: Frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battle cruiser, Carrier, escort, infantry pics and the accompanying minis. also have main, bigexplosions, shields pics done.

I use DOGA L3 so the ships are basic ones.

[ September 13, 2002, 04:47: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

I have population/race pics and the General AI (and a kick'n Speech file) for the Abbai as well.

The Abbai are Matriarchal and are very peaceful - they are the founders of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds. They tend to be a defensive race. They are also the only young race that will have shields available to research easily.

Pathfinder
When you upload the shipset, could you also zip and send me the DoGA files? Thanks!

[ September 13, 2002, 04:55: Message edited by: Val ]

[pathfinder]

Val: sure thing. I am using the "Unfinished" Abbai folder I found at Rambi's site or PBW, so me thinks I have those files....may not be your latest tho' as it doesn't have the speech file.

I'll get a number more ships done tommorow night and will send those in at that time...along with the doga files to you. The shipset is gonna be kinda eclectic...kinda like the AOG minatures that are posted on their website.

Hmmm...shields.. I'll have to update their AI_research file then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 13, 2002, 04:59: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Intel will need a reworking for the AI as well.

[Val]

Actually, the reason Intel needs a rework is that after researching Applied Intelligence you now get 4 new techs (only the first 3 of which the AI should care about) - Espionage, Black Ops, Counter Intelligence and Covert Support(Last one not yet finished). These techs need to be researched to get the various projects.

Here are the beta 1.49.31 data files if they might help on AI design.

Data.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1031926108.zip)

[Lighthorse]

Namor,

Yes I received your email.
I be waiting for your additional information.

Lighthorse0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nomor]

Originally posted by Lighthorse:
Namor,

Yes I received your email.
I be waiting for your additional information.

Lighthorse0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lighthorse: At the top of the forum page, under new topic is the link called "my profile". Click on that to go to your profile.
Inside this link is a message. once again, thanks.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Applied Intelligence and Applied Research re-worked. I'll upload tonight sometime.

[pathfinder]

Val: There were errors anyways. Either no intell researched or reverse in levels....re-did intell and/or research in all the AI I have done so far...

[ September 14, 2002, 12:56: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Gotcha.

Also, FYI to all, the data files I posted will invalidate any Empire files you have created. The files should work well (in other words, anyone who wants a peak at what is coming can install this data files in place of their old data folder), even without the extra graphics that will be in the 1.49.31 release. I've also changed around some of the existing projects to fill out the levels. I'm interested on feedback on the Intel work and suggestions for more Intel programs - particularly race specific ones (there are two Shadow specific ones in there already, fitting I think).

[pathfinder]

Kewl. Working on getting an Abbai-specific zip up for you. Then an updated AI of the rest. Probably Last one until after next MOD Version comes out.

This Last one will include basic Drazi AI_designcreation and AI_research. That leaves the Vorlons and Raiders to do. hmmm.....guess I COULD do a basic (less race-specific weapons) for the Vorlons. *Naw...went ahead and sent the rest to Ya Val*

Oh and to be a REAL P.I.T.A....pics for the Minbari molecular disruptor and Minbari pulsar? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 14, 2002, 18:03: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

Yeah, I'll have those in 1.49.31's graphic update, I just didn't want to kill space for no reason.

Also, for now I kept a Hyach AI I had been working on for ship designs (no offense), though I am testing yours to see what they do.

I figure with Intel most races will concentrate on Espionage (4 levels) and Counter Intelligence (3 levels) while the more underhanded races will go for Black Ops (6 levels of this). The Covert Support (4 levels) really is pretty useless to the AI unless there is a way to specify which Intel it will use - anyone know this answer?

How are the Abbai doing? I'd love to start the drazi next, maybe we can split that shipset up? Any other budding (or veteran) shipset builders out there?

[pathfinder]

Val: No offense taken at all. All the AI I have done (at least at the start) were so I could "see" the available tech in 'action". No biggie, as a matter of fact, the AI_research ones probably need to be re-done . Some tech acellerated, other not reseached at all...I "shotgunned" most of the tech. *shrug* Still learning the various races, to "personalize" the research and the designcreation to the specific races.....hehe, seems to be a never ending story http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Abbai: have not done any more ships as I have run out of ideas...waiting for the book from AOG http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When ya get home and open the Abbai zip: battle cruiser, cruiser, escort, carrier, frigate and destroyer are what I have done, IIRC.

[ September 14, 2002, 19:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Val:
Espionage projects are useless to the AIs. They don't remember what they learn from them.

[Val]

Won't they benefit from ship bombs and the like? At least cause general chaos and disorder?

[Val]

Also - when do y'all want to start the PBW?

[Fyron]

Ship Bombs are Sabotage, not Espionage. By Espionage, I was refering to things that only give information, like Force Concentrations, Covert Recon, Census Thefts, etc. The missions that only give information do not help the AI at all, cause they don't remember that info. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When will 1.49.31 be ready? We can start after that is set up on PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Does anyone care about player order? In 1.49, the lower numbered player always gets to act first in combat. So, we can maybe have the ancient races be first in the list, representing their enhanced combat abilities. Or, we could have them Last, representing their tendencies to be slow to act. Or, we could just let everyone sign up in whatever order they come, firt come, first serve.

[ September 14, 2002, 22:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[pathfinder]

IF: Don't matter to me what order....

Val: After V 1.49.31 is ready and out...

[gregebowman]

Val, when you have completely done the B5 mod for 1.78 Users, please let us know. I downloaded the files from PBW awhile back, but haven't downloaded anything since. Every time I check this thread, there's like a dozen upgrades. I can't keep track of it all. I've just been waiting for a message saying that you're completed the mod and you can downloaded it at such and such site. I can be patient, but ever since I got this game back in May(?) I've been wanting to play this mod.

[Lighthorse]

Val,

I prefer to wait until you think that B5mod is ready for PBW gaming
I think that most of the B5 races should start out as oxygen/rock types, with a few exceptions.
My reasoning is that most of the B5 races were oxygen breathers in the old TV shows. It wouldn't seem right to be able to habitable any gas, or ice and rock planet. With all that hard effort that you put into this mod, I think we should play it as close to possible like it was portrayed in the TV series.

One B5mod player opinion
Lighthorse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Val]

IF
I like the idea of the Ancients going first, I would say Shadows then Vorlons. Then maybe continue in racial age order. Minbari/Hyach/Soul Hunters(actually, Soul Hunters first of those three), then Centauri/Narn/EA and the rest.

Lighthorse
I would actually say all races are Oxygen/Rock, the only exceptions are the Vorlons (Methane/Rock) and Gaim (Hydrogen/Rock). I think the mod is probly more ready for PBW than anything, plus it is a good way to see what is/isn't working well. I'd say the 1.49.31 release should have more than enough in it for a good solid (hopefully balanced) game.

Gregebowman
Wow, sorry for making you wait so long, there is a somewhat playable Version of Gold that PVK did a while back, but I'm not sure how long it will be before we go Gold on this, probably within 2 months.

1.49.31
Should be ready next week, then we can start PBW the following week. I just want to get the new weapons into the game so the Vorlons have something to fight with, and some new graphics.

[Fyron]

Assuming we use the idea for player order that Val just proposed, we have:

Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - Pathfinder
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunnn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ):
Gandalf
Simon
Tesco Samoa
Stargazer (?)
AGoetz

These are some "common" races available (although, I don't know whether they have special techs available or not):
Markab
Raiders
Belt Alliance
League of Non-Aligned Worlds
Abbai
Gaim
Drakh
Drazi
Dilgar
etc. (I'm sure there are more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

What about the Third Space Aliens? Are they playable?

If everyone would give me their PBW names, I can simply assign everyone in this order, and simplify everything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Abbai, Raiders, Drazi have some race-specific techs. The shipsets are playable but incomplete.

[Val]

I'm Valll on PBW.

The Vree have unique weapons and shipset. The Gaim are pretty good, and usable. The Belt Allaince and the Raiders also have unique techs, and could use the EA shipset. The Drazi have a lot of unique weapons, partial shipset.

I'm thinking about testing the technomages, fly around and observe the universe, act all mysterious and all, see if their cloaks work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Third Space Aliens are not playable yet, I haven't added in anything for them yet, so they would just be an expensive handicap for anyone taking them. I'm thinking they will get the Allegiance Subverters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

New list time:

Assuming we use the idea for player order that Val just proposed, we have:

Technomages - Valll (maybe)
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - Pathfinder
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai -
Drazi -
Vree -
Gaim -

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ):
Gandalf
Simon
Tesco Samoa
Stargazer (?)
AGoetz

I stuck the Technomages as #1, cause they always seem to be able to show up and leave whenever they want, before anyone else has a chance to act. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The Last (unassigned) races are just in their in a random order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

IMHO, the AS given to the Third Space Aliens should have damage something like this (assuming 5 levels):
Level 1 - 40 10 0 0
Level 2 - 50 12 0 0
Level 3 - 60 15 0 0
Level 4 - 70 17 0 0
Level 5 - 80 20 0 0

Btw... what is the Belt Alliance?

[ September 15, 2002, 06:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[pathfinder]

IF: If IIRC, Belt Alliance is sorta like the Raiders but good guys.

gregbowman: Two things you could do is 1-go to the shipset forum here and pick-up the B5 Gold done by PDF (June timeframe). This one is very old Version but could be updated with the AI I have posted. 2-wait until after Val Posts the next Version, then convert the AI_Fleet files (add the lines for drones) for all the AI and the line about defense in AI_Settings for all of them. B5 is very playable either way. Just depends on how much fiddling around you want to do. The AI I have been posting are not optimized, just the AI_designcreation and AI_research files so that the AI can get some level of their own race-specific weapons and other components (stealth coating, psychic units [EA psi corps], etc) unique to the races. It got a bit boring playing against the races which had all the same, limited techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 15, 2002, 11:56: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[tesco samoa]

no Drakh ...??

Tesco would love to play the Drakh...

If not then Tesco will play what ever race no one wants to play...

and if there is only one race left... Tesco will take it..

But if the Drakh show up... thats it for me.

[Val]

Drakh are another oddball race that will probably get special treatment. I do have a few ships for them and I also have weapons mapped out. I'll see if I can compete by Version 31

[Fyron]

New list time:

Assuming we use the idea for player order that Val just proposed, we have:

Technomages - Valll (maybe)
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - Pathfinder
Drakh - Tesco Samoa
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai -
Drazi -
Vree -
Gaim -

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest ):
Gandalf
Simon
Stargazer (?)
AGoetz
Timstone

Are the Drakh in a good place in the list?

[pathfinder]

Oy...learned something about the Narn. Their fighter light ion torpedo is great against ships but ain't meant to be used against fighters. 10 EA Matter Gun III equipped Light Fighters ripped 60+ Narn light fighters equipped with 2 X light ion Torps...designcreation called for 1 with a particle gun as secondary....maybe I don't understand secondary...??

[Fyron]

Or you put too many primaries in the design. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Val]

There are a lot of fighter weapons like that, kind of forces you to take a mix. That's also why I have several 'fighter types' in the generic AI.

I'd say the Drakh are in a good spot, but put Tesco's name by the Vree too - in case I don't get enough done for them. My priority is on the existing races and Vorlons right now.

[ September 15, 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: Val ]

[pathfinder]

Hmmm..I'll have to fiddle a bit with that. Thankee...

those fighter battles can be kinda tense/kewl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 15, 2002, 23:22: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

Val et al

Re: Drakh ships. Would it not be acceptable to use some of the Shadow ships to fill in the gaps.

The Drakh were to the Shadows what the Minbari were to the Vorlons, only more so. The Shadows used human Telepaths in some of their ships. Since some of the Drahk are telepathic is it not safe to assume that the Shadows had some of their ships piloted by Drakh and would thus serve as part of the Drahk shipset?

Or is this taking the easy way out?

The Drakh can have some unique ways for taking control of ships/colonies by use of their "Keepers".

Val you will shortly have a private massage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 15, 2002, 21:55: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[pathfinder]

Nomor: hehe, Drahk ships are being used to flesh out the Shadows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Not that the reverse couldn't happen ...

[ September 15, 2002, 21:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[tesco samoa]

earth alliance is that just bab 5

or is it the earth , moon mars etc...

or both combined

I would recommend that the pbw game be set up... have everyone join and then the custom map start points be adjusted to where each player is located in the pecking order from pbw

or just set up each empire and get the people to take over each empire...

[Nomor]

Pathfinder: My watch has 22.00. What is the time in your neck of the woods? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

If I was the Shadows I would be more than happy to loan my sycophantic minions some of my ships knowing full well I could recall them at a minutes notice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Question: Is it possible to create an Empire that already has an established partnership e.g. Minbari with Vorlon partnership or Shadow with Drakh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ September 15, 2002, 22:23: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[pathfinder]

Nomor: 18:15 or 6:15 EDT.....

Anyone: after I loaded the new data files from Val, the following pics dissappeared from add component menu's: tiny fission engine, tiny fusion engine, tiny gravimetric engine and external cargo pod. Some of the particle cannon pics did too (repeater cannons). No lock when right clicked as the data & pics pop up and pics are in the component graphics folder..... they displyed before I loaded it.... just seemed weird is all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

*pathy sniffs his beer can to see if any foreign substances were added*

Val: The Vree are tough hombres. Took 400 Vet rated Infantry to root a 100 million Vree planet w/1 defense

[ September 15, 2002, 23:24: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Looks like the project is coming along just fine. Lots of discussion about the new races and techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I'm really looking forward to the next release of the mod.
BTW, I would like to join, but I'm just accepted in another PBW. But still I would like to join you guys. Could you please enter me as the Vree? I've always liked those gray guys flying around in their frisbees.

[AGoetz]

I could take the Gaim - their disadvantage is that as the only non-O2 breather allowed to colonize, everybody is going to want to capture my populations in order to un-dome their Hydrogen worlds (tried it in game Last night, transferring captured Gaim to my worlds, big difference)

[Val]

It's not so much the ships for the Drakh, it's more that I haven't added in any of their tech yet and I have a ton of notes I am trying to decipher to create them. They are going to get a unique (and incomplete from the eyes of a standard shipset) shipset and will be nomadic.

The EA is Earth, Mars, some colonies and B5 - originally.

We could start the Minbari as Vorlon agents and Drakh as Shadow agents (if we get them done), or the ancients can be left to court the younger races and see who they can sway, though I doubt the Shadows could offer the Minbari anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Also, there are going to be unique Shadow and Vorlon influenced ships for each race (not just EA and Minbari), the only way to get these techs is for the Vorlon/Shadow player to give the younger race the tech Vorlon/Shadow Aid (me thinks).

I will check into the ghost components when I get home from work.

[ September 16, 2002, 00:16: Message edited by: Val ]

[Val]

Something you should know about the Gaim - they are tough ground fighters too! I don't remember if I added in their special troops yet or not, but they will be getting tougher ground troops and will have bio-engineering techs available in time. Their ships can also be equiped with Bulkheads that act much as standard armor originally did in SE IV taking damage first.

[pathfinder]

Tell me about the Gaim!

Those ugly mugs kept 350 of EA's finest infantry at bay (after the EA invaded) then slowly killed them off.....the transport was destroyed and by the time a replacement was built and got to the system it was too late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 16, 2002, 01:06: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

I've been thinking about some of the attributes that you can take when you're creating a race and I've come to suspect that Natural Merchants (That's the one where you don't need Space Ports, isn't it?) could be under priced. As I understand it, only Homeworld Hubs, Colony Hubs and Manufacturing Hubs (?) count as Space Ports and these all take a long time to build, much longer than single purpose structures such as Space Yards and Mines.

[Val]

Good call, never thought about that one!

Either we should up the cost, or make a smaller 'space port' only facility that could be built (as already exists in standard SE IV). Opinions?

Hey Fyron -
Did you ever get in touch with Rambie about the CD?

Path
I will be getting the CD out to you this week!

[ September 16, 2002, 01:27: Message edited by: Val ]

[pathfinder]

Hmmm...small space port only facility similar to stad SEIV. Might work...but can't put on same planet as the other space-port with colony facilities. Just like the space yard. gives one options. me likes the big facilities due to the added storage but would be handy to get stuff/goods quicker if not EA...

[President_Elect_Shang]

I just downloaded the B5 Mod and may I say nice job. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif My hat is off to all of you who worked on it. I was taking a good long look at the external components and I see that you came to the same conclusion I did. I decided to toss mine out the window as they aren’t really external, just small internal. I still wonder if there isn’t a way around this? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[AGoetz]

Shang's post reminded of something that happened - I had a Medium Transport filled with External Cargo Spaces, loaded with Infantry and Ground Support Units. My fleet hit an unmapped minefield. None of the combat vessel capabilities were seriously impaired, but every single ground pounder got a lesson in vacuum breathing. It took my Homeworld and attendent Base Yards close to a year to build all of those units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Fyron]

New list time:

Technomages - Valll (maybe)
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - Pathfinder
Drakh - Tesco Samoa
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai -
Drazi -
Vree - Tesco (if Drakh unavailable)
Gaim - AGoetz

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest ):
Gandalf
Simon
Stargazer (?)
Timstone

Hey Fyron -
Did you ever get in touch with Rambie about the CD?
Yeah.

And I still need everyone's proper PBW name, exactly as it appears there (including capotals and all, for insurance).

[Timstone]

Say, I asked if I could play the Vree! If Tesco gets to play the Drakh then I want to play the Vree (just as I asked). If Tesco is going to play the Vree, then you're free to place me at any race you want.

[ September 16, 2002, 09:50: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[pathfinder]

IF: my pbw nic: pathfinder (notice... NO caps, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[ September 16, 2002, 11:27: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Suicide Junkie]

I would reccommend starting at 30%/30%/30% (10% miscellaneous devices)
Do a bunch of simulations with varying amounts of each, and see what a good balance is for your tech level.

Once you meet some aliens, try to have +1 speed over thier ships. When ship speeds get too high, switch back to the slow, heavy ships which can swat the flies.
A mix would be good: fast interceptors, and heavy assault ships.

[Timstone]

Thanks for the advise SJ.
But what about the building queue of a new colony?

[ September 16, 2002, 14:16: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[tesco samoa]

Timstone... My secondary request is the empire that no one wishes to play or the Last empire left.

So the empire is yours http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Really?! Thanks, jippie!
I hope you get to play the Drakh.

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by Timstone:
I'm willing to forgive it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I just hope Tesco gets to play the Drakh that way I can play the Vree. If not, $h!t happens, I'll just play another race. No sweat.

Oh, and could you guys give me a few reasonable setups for beginning planets? I don't know what to bluid on a new colony. And how about ships. What is a "good" setup for a ship (Y% armor, X% engines, Z%weapons, etc...)?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well on my first colonys (this is for planets that are the same apmospher as u) i allways build a Space yard first, it allows you to build the rests of the facilities much quicker than you would otherwise. Sure the Space yard may take 140 turns with the basic amount of population, but if you sent about 5 transports worth of pop from your main planet it will only take around 24 turns to build, once you have this and with the large amount of pop u will have on the planet, things such as research centers will take about 6 turns each.

I can't stress how much research centers are needed, as getting an early advantage is very good. As weapons not only increase in power and range the higher up the tech levels they go but they also decrease in how much space they take up, which means you will be able to fit more of your big weapons on your ships.

Ship wise for a "good" allround ship i recomend the following (This is what i mainly use for my Earth ships)

Engines: you firstly need good engines as the larger the ship the more thrust it needs. At the start my engines take up alot of room if u want to go fast. Try if possible to get the ship to go atleast 4-5 movement, later on all ships can easly get 8 movement with the use of gravametric engines etc, engines cost space so don't forget to upgrade engines as space for more armour/weapons/point defence can be created by improving the engines.

Combat sensors etc: These are a must have, get all of them you can on your ship as they are your first line of defence and attack as there is no point in having guns if you cannot hit them even if your life depended on it. (It does http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Point defence: early on point defence is not really that useful as no one really has fighters and it's only the odd missile that comes your way. Also you get poor PD until you research Military science. however early to half way though the game your main ships will need at leasts 1 piece of PD maby two if you find you have some extra room as a weapon doesn't quite fit. CrUsers and upwards should have atleast 2 PD.

Armour: Mucho important, i have 8-10 pieces of medium armour of ships of heavy destroyer and below and any higher i use Heavy armour of 8-10 pieces, this may vary if the ship has i little bit more room left that nothing good except armour can go in to.

Weapons: I normally have 2 heavy weapons on a ship supported by as many medium weapons as possible as heavy weapons do alot of damage but usually have a longer reload time, also with some weapons like lasers, heavy ones tend to have a long range so sometimes waste their shots at a long range so the medium weapons are a sort of safty net as they have a shorter distance.

I think my EA battle cruisers (which were set up pritty much like the ones in the show) had two Large Heavy laser\pulse cannons and 4 medium laser cannons, this was however because the weapons were level 8 and had reduced in size by about half from when they were level 1!

Fighters: Do get these in you normal attack ships as they can be deadly in a 1on1 fight and even in large battles, 3 fighterbays on a battle cruiser will allow 18 medium fighters which is dealy against another ship with a normal amount of PD. You may have the problem of having to constantly buy fighters but it's much cheeper than having to buy new ships, They also act as PD against other fighters and missiles. They are just a must, i've simulated two Battle cruisers Vs one BC with fighters on board and the one with fighters one 3/5 times.

I think thats it for the mo. if i've left any areas of a ship out do tell me and i'll give my view.

[Dead Meat]

Imperator Fyron: My PBW name is Dead Meat

[Fyron]

New list time:

Technomages - Valll
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - pathfinder
Drakh - tescosamoa
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai -
Drazi -
Vree - Timstone
Gaim - AGoetz

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest ):
Gandalf
Simon
Stargazer (?)

[ September 16, 2002, 21:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Val]

Timstone - oops, sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[jimbob]

It looks like the Drazi is still free, put Stargrazer down for them.
Thx

Edit: Are the Pakmara available? I think he mentioned them, and I found them mentioned in the components file a few times. If so, how 'bout them?

[ September 17, 2002, 00:20: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Timstone]

I'm willing to forgive it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I just hope Tesco gets to play the Drakh that way I can play the Vree. If not, $h!t happens, I'll just play another race. No sweat.

Oh, and could you guys give me a few reasonable setups for beginning planets? I don't know what to bluid on a new colony. And how about ships. What is a "good" setup for a ship (Y% armor, X% engines, Z%weapons, etc...)?

[ September 16, 2002, 12:14: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[AGoetz]

I've created a PBW account under the name AGoetz.

[pathfinder]

JimBob: Check out the pakmara in the B5 Unfinished races at Rambi's website. Not much there ...bare bones atm. may be do -able in pBW....no shipset tho', just race pics.

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

[ September 17, 2002, 01:09: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

New list time:

Technomages - Valll
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - pathfinder
Drakh - tescosamoa
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai - Nomorlurk (Simon)
Drazi - Stargrazer
Vree - Timstone
Gaim - AGoetz
Pakmara (maybe) -

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest ):
Gandalf

Ok... someone get in contact with Gandalf and see what race he wants to play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 17, 2002, 03:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[pathfinder]

How many ships can be in a single area...like parked in orbit around a planet? Narn have 238 atm around one planet with 3 fleets of 20+ enroute to it in same sector....would having those 60+ more ships cause an RCE?

Hmmmm...seems the Narn-induced RCE is that idiot design minister agin....not sure what blooper he/she is making... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Oh and pic #594 (pulsar mines) seems to be a missin' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 17, 2002, 02:49: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

So the Range Check Errors that have killed every game I've let go long enough could be caused by too many ships in the one location? No idea on how to prevent the AI doing that, especially as it continues to build hundreds of Scouts even when it has the tech for Battleships. Guess I'll have to declare war on everyone and send a fleet of Battleships/Carriers through all the empires looking for large concentrations. (Currently giving the Vorlons a try, bulding no colony ships and I've only taken planets in my starting sector that were colonized by AIs that declared war on me - only the Narn and EA have done so. I'm generating ~12000 research natively and I'm getting ~100000 from my treaties http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Each of my planets are protected by 100 mines, 100 Light Fighters, 50 Super Heavy Fighters, 500 Infantry and several War Stations equipped with 10 Heavy Improved Neutron Laser X each. Is that enough for a game against human opponents?

[ September 17, 2002, 03:09: Message edited by: AGoetz ]

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
IF: gregbowman: Two things you could do is 1-go to the shipset forum here and pick-up the B5 Gold done by PDF (June timeframe). This one is very old Version but could be updated with the AI I have posted. 2-wait until after Val Posts the next Version, then convert the AI_Fleet files (add the lines for drones) for all the AI and the line about defense in AI_Settings for all of them. B5 is very playable either way. Just depends on how much fiddling around you want to do. The AI I have been posting are not optimized, just the AI_designcreation and AI_research files so that the AI can get some level of their own race-specific weapons and other components (stealth coating, psychic units [EA psi corps], etc) unique to the races. It got a bit boring playing against the races which had all the same, limited techs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I couldn't find that earlier Version of the B5 mod through the forum, but it looks like I downloaded some form of the B5 mod back in July. Among the authors listed in the readme file are Val and PDF. I'll have to look at it and see if I need to download those files. But I may just wait until Val releases the v1.78 mod. I usually don't have that much time to get on the computer, and my time is divided between wanting to play the game or getting on the internet and download a new race or mod.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Trust me, your planets, once they get to that level are gonna be P.I.T.A. to invade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I set the AI to just PD in their WP...the Narn use the heavy interceptor which is also capable of taking on ships. The Last planet I tried to invade had maybe 5 or so WP with those.....ripped by planet buster fleet to heck and gone...

not to mention it took 400 garrison rated troops to take out 1 defender plus militia on a Vree planet (200 were stalemated so I had to reinforce).

Seems to me that planet busting gonna be darn difficult once a game gets going, especially mid to late game.

gregebowman: Yeah, may be best to wait a bit. Hopefully it won't be TOO long before the basic Gold Version is done.

[ September 17, 2002, 03:57: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Val]

jimbob

You could use the LNAW set with the Pakmara Main.bmp They have a LOT of plasma based weapons. Devestating stuff at close range!

Gregbowman
It may be a bit, if I have some extra time after the next patch (or two) I will update it for Gold 1.78 so it is playable.

Path
As for planet busting, well, the Vorlon's and Shadows have the ultimate in those departments http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif You could also research those evil biotechs and plague a planet. I am trying to add a plague Intel op that will cost quite a hefty amount.
Thank the Great Maker that you are here to remind me of all the missing pic files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I checked the other pics, I think your Version may have the misnumbered components before SJ had adjusted them for me. You may need to reload the Core part of the mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Or just reload/renumber those offendeding pics.

Has anyone had a chance to look at the new intel op stuff yet? Very interested in feedback. We are using Intel for the PBW, yes? (Oh, I am going to miss rollplaying the Cnetauri, yes, they were not doing so well, but in our glory days we covered more sectors than all three of the other major races combined! Our ships - though a bit outclassed by the Minbari I admit - filled the voids of space. Yes, I shall miss the Centauri. Now I have to roll play all solemn and mystic like and disapear for weeks at a time... wait, this should be a cake walk for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[ September 17, 2002, 04:27: Message edited by: Val ]

[pathfinder]

Val: I'll reload the core again....and no problem, t'is the life of a beta-tester http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

OH Yeah....coupla weeks ago the Narn got VERY ill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I was using the intel.....The EA (me) seem to be messing up the Narn with it...they ended up only doing counter-intel. Can't remember what I set them (Narn) to research though...

I seem to use (via Intel Minister) a lot of minor bombs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I checked the tiny fission engine pic and all seems to match bUT it doesn't show in the menu where you design a fighter. also doesn't show if you click on a fighter (to check components) in a planet or carrier. Dunno, beats me one day there gone the next.... Me using B5Core V 30

[ September 17, 2002, 05:05: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[AGoetz]

Sounds like I should get around to researching those medical facilites - of course in about a third of the games I tried I've found Medibay 5 tech in ruins (Cure for Nano-Plague).
Several of the ruin techs I've found don't seem to lead to anything, like Ancient Machine and Ship Automation.
As for the actual planet glassing, is there any in-game penalty for using Mass Drivers? They are short range but they do a lot of damage - the Mark X Version does almost 3000 a shot, skips shields and has a reload of 1.

[pathfinder]

AGoetz: Only penalty I know of, IIRC, is that use of mass drivers will make you "Evil Empire" with all races you are in contact with...

[Lighthorse]

Val

I send you a private message, please reply.

Thanks
Lighthorse

[President_Elect_Shang]

I have been toying with a component for external racks as such:

Tonnage Space Taken := 0
Tonnage Structure := 1

Any comments? I have found a few bugs (sigh) with this but let me hear what the rest of you have to say.

[ September 17, 2002, 05:10: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Fyron]

As for planet busting, well, the Vorlon's and Shadows have the ultimate in those departments You could also research those evil biotechs and plague a planet. I am trying to add a plague Intel op that will cost quite a hefty amount.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Keep in mind that the more expensive you make a project, the harder you make it to defend against too.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
I have been toying with a component for external racks as such:

Tonnage Space Taken := 0
Tonnage Structure := 1

Any comments? I have found a few bugs (sigh) with this but let me hear what the rest of you have to say.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Keep in mind that the size of a ship represents all of it's mass. It is not a measure of volume. Having a component be "external" does not mean that it hass less mass than an "internal" component.

Originally posted by pathfinder:
AGoetz: Only penalty I know of, IIRC, is that use of mass drivers will make you "Evil Empire" with all races you are in contact with...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, using those weapons doesn't really have any effect upon the other empires around you, and doesn't make you into an "Evil Empire". Unfortunately, SE4 doesn't model such things.

[ September 17, 2002, 05:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[pathfinder]

IF: ah...okies.....Looks like I "read" thee wrong soul http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Val: DOH! I had loaded the latest imagepak ...reloaded the components pic...the one with the gazillion min-pics in it and voila! the missing pics (tiny engines and external cargo) are there.....

[Val]

IF
Yeah, that's was how I thought it worked. Maybe I will mess with the Intel projects a bit more and make some higher priced Versions of existing projects to increase the chance of success. I also think the Plague Intel should be expensive, but not too much (based on yer comment).

Prez Elect Shang
As IF said, you want to make the component tonage larger, and I think it should take at least some space on board the ship (to represent the support struts to attach it to the vessel). In the B5 mod, all external components also act as a sort of unintentional armor (I gave them the traditional SEIV armor ability) as they tend to absorb the first hits.

PF
Let me know if the reload works.

Poor Narn:(

Lighthorse
Ok.

Agoetz
Right now Mass Drivers (and Bio weapons) don't really do much, though I think I can set the AI to react to glassing planets as a hefty negative modifier, achieving the same sort of effect. I do wish we could have certain weapons deemed 'evil' and cause a negative to all races that don't employ such devices.

[President_Elect_Shang]

[/QUOTE]Keep in mind that the size of a ship represents all of it's mass. It is not a measure of volume. Having a component be "external" does not mean that it hass less mass than an "internal" component.[qb]

Well first I don't see how the mass of an object plays into an external component for damage of a system that is being designed with the ability "Armor" because it is exposed on the outside of the ship.
Second this is a ship in space, and this ship has engines able to accelerate it to x% of c in a matter of moments without turning the crew into anchovy paste. A large percent of c that is.
Third if you are assuming a ship that CAN accelerate to x% of c than you can also assume (we all know what that means) that a little change in mass is not important if we can design a component that more closely mimics “external”. Right now the B5 Mod “external” systems are just small “internal” systems.
Wait. Not done.
Finally a true “external” system in a zero g environment (a ship in space); is only limited by the surface area of the ship; the true weight (mass) of this component would be near meaningless.
Right?

[ September 17, 2002, 05:41: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[pathfinder]

Val: what worked is getting the correct components.bmp and loading it. I can now see the external cargo pod and tiny engines. The one replaced had quite a few more pics on it but none (I believe/hope!) were B5 images.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Val, why would you want to make the component tonnage larger? It’s on the outside of the ship.
I see your point with the armor trait, but I would think that a true external component should not absorb enough damage to be considered a form of extra armor. Note that I do agree whole heartedly with the damaged first idea.
Also I would think that if a species is capable of building a massive ship in an even larger space dock (think Star Trek sized) than they would also be able to not have an I-beam from an external mount running through the chow hall. “Hay cookie! Look out for the (thump), never mind.”

[ September 17, 2002, 06:13: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Phoenix-D]

"Val, why would you want to make the component tonnage larger? It’s on the outside of the ship."

"Well first I don't see how the mass of an object plays into an external component for damage of a system that is being designed with the ability "Armor" because it is exposed on the outside of the ship."

"outside" or "inside" is *not* relevent in terms of mass. It's either part of the ship or not attached, nothing in between. Bolting something on the outside has no effect in and of itself; no air resistance.

Phoenix-D

[killer]

I have managed to get the PBY B5Mod but a new probleme has arrisen. While the game is loading it stops and a window appears thatlooks like the one there would if you deleted the Componets txt. file on the normal game.

Anything you can do?

killer out.

[Timstone]

What kind of errors apear on your screen?

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Val:
Gregbowman
It may be a bit, if I have some extra time after the next patch (or two) I will update it for Gold 1.78 so it is playable.

)<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can wait. But I hope that it is the Version where I can play against the computer solo. Most of these Messages seemed to be geared towards a PBM type of game, which I don't want at this time. Just let me know when it's ready and I'll be happy.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by President Elect Shang:
Keep in mind that the size of a ship represents all of it's mass. It is not a measure of volume. Having a component be "external" does not mean that it hass less mass than an "internal" component.

Well first I don't see how the mass of an object plays into an external component for damage of a system that is being designed with the ability "Armor" because it is exposed on the outside of the ship.
Second this is a ship in space, and this ship has engines able to accelerate it to x% of c in a matter of moments without turning the crew into anchovy paste. A large percent of c that is.
Third if you are assuming a ship that CAN accelerate to x% of c than you can also assume (we all know what that means) that a little change in mass is not important if we can design a component that more closely mimics “external”. Right now the B5 Mod “external” systems are just small “internal” systems.
Wait. Not done.
Finally a true “external” system in a zero g environment (a ship in space); is only limited by the surface area of the ship; the true weight (mass) of this component would be near meaningless.
Right?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Force = Mass x Acceleration
The more massive an object is, the more force (thrust) it requires to accelerate the object. Whether a component is "internal" or "external", it should still have roughly the same mass. The location of the mass is irrelevant. In a vacuum there is no resistance from the media (or lack thereof). A sleek starship requires the same force to accelerate as an equal mass oblong hulk. So, an external component shouldn't necessarily be less massive (ie: fewer kilotons (smaller)) than an internal one.

[ September 17, 2002, 19:54: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
A sleek starship requires the same force to accelerate as an equal mass oblong hulk. So, an external component shouldn't necessarily be less massive (ie: fewer kilotons (smaller)) than an internal one.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is incorrect Imperator. A sleek and smooth spaceship requires less thrust for the same acceleration than a bulky spaceship. There is ALWAYS resistance (stray space dust, small meteorites). It's almost nothing compared to the atmosphere of a planet, but there is still some resistance. And that resistance is very large if you're heading in the direction of a sun (the sun is emitting photons, that's why a solar sail gives thrust to certain artificial recon moons) or if you're traveling inside a nebula (particles make up a nebula).

[ September 17, 2002, 20:07: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Lighthorse]

Val,

Have you ever thought about mounting missile racks on the side of spaceships. It should slow them down some, but shouldn't count against the vessel tonage. Also vessel could tow missile pods too. This should only be allow for one or few of the minor races, to off set they technology disadvangate with the big boys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Lighthorse

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Timstone:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
A sleek starship requires the same force to accelerate as an equal mass oblong hulk. So, an external component shouldn't necessarily be less massive (ie: fewer kilotons (smaller)) than an internal one.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is incorrect Imperator. A sleek and smooth spaceship requires less thrust for the same acceleration than a bulky spaceship. There is ALWAYS resistance (stray space dust, small meteorites). It's almost nothing compared to the atmosphere of a planet, but there is still some resistance. And that resistance is very large if you're heading in the direction of a sun (the sun is emitting photons, that's why a solar sail gives thrust to certain artificial recon moons) or if you're traveling inside a nebula (particles make up a nebula).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sleek vs. oblong hulk was an exaggeration.

The resistance in normal space would be so small as to hardly make a difference for the purposes of SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif In reality it might make a very minor difference, but SE4 doesn't handle such things. And you cannot make ships move slower when heading towards a star, or in a nebula, in SE4, so that doesn't affect my arguement much in terms of SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyways, your points may be valid, but they don't affect my arguement of external vs. internal components a whole lot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nomor]

Re: Mass Drivers

When I did a stint on an Evil Empire ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif as part of an Officer exchange program they always used to launch their Mass Driver projectiles from as far away as 15 to 20 combat squares to avoid Satellite defences and surface to space fighters. They were only able to get off two shots and then had to retreat. The range didn't seem to matter, in fact the gravity well of the planet meant that the further away from the target the "mass" was fired the more damage it did due to the increased speed upon impact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

They were not very accurate until some bright spark suggested bolting small thruster rockets to the "mass" which could be fired remotely as a primitive guidance system. On one occasion they used it on a stricken carrier that had its engines disabled. It was only a partial hit but I reckon the carrier was only good for scrap after that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

One of the most devastating direct fire/come slow seeker weapons I'd ever seen in action. Easy to avoid as long as your engines are working. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif Hell, you only fire mass drivers from Orbit if you like to watch the dust plumes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif I once saw a colony defend against this by launching fighters equipped with warheads and crashing into the driven "mass". They ejected just before impact. They managed to destroy it but having sacrificed all their fighter, surrendered anyway.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 17, 2002, 21:41: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[oleg]

Speeking about drag in space: Does anybody ever estimated what kind of kinetic impact can interstellar dust have on a starship cruising at near-light speed ? At 0.99 c, even a vety, very tiny piece of mater can produce a megatone impact...

[Fyron]

Unfortunately, you could never ever reach anywhere near 0.99 c. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Nomor]

Would it not be relative. If a pea came hurtling at you at .99c and hit your 6 foot steel hull would that not be the same as a 6 foot steel hull hitting a pea at .99c. The greater mass would win? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
I think this was why energy shields were "invented", to push the debris of space out the way or deflect it?

[oleg]

Good question. It can be traced to two tween's problem. Once we get to aceleration/breaking, we move from special relativity theory to general relativity and that is out of my field of expertise.

[Nomor]

That is incorrect Imperator. A sleek and smooth spaceship requires less thrust for the same acceleration than a bulky spaceship. There is ALWAYS resistance (stray space dust, small meteorites). <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is that why Thunderbird 3 was pointy at one end? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Jamorobo]

Originally posted by Nomor:
Would it not be relative. If a pea came hurtling at you at .99c and hit your 6 foot steel hull would that not be the same as a 6 foot steel hull hitting a pea at .99c. The greater mass would win? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
I think this was why energy shields were "invented", to push the debris of space out the way or deflect it?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well The Challenger space shuttles windscreen was cracked in 1982 by a 0.02mm piece of paint, of course it was traveling at 32,000 kph. So a pea sized chuck of metal would do a hell of a lot of damage to a ship

[Nomor]

Ha...... That's what they tell you....... I think a mechanic dropped a spanner and they just wanted to claim on the insurance! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
(I think the USA end has all gone to bed.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif It is 10.30pm after all!

Does anyone know what a fleck of paint travelling at 32,000 KPH would do to a 6 foot steel hull?

To borrow a quote: "NEVER argue with fools, they only bring you down to their level and beat you... with experience." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ September 17, 2002, 22:31: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[Jamorobo]

naa USA is about 5 hours behind the uk so it's 5:30 on the east coast, therefore they should be getting back from work (The word "work" is sooo misleading) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Also Val, will the mod be done by the end of the week? Perhapse with new ai???

[pathfinder]

Werk? what that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

New AI? *passes out*

[Val]

Val is still at work and probably will be until laaaate tonight, hence my lack of frequent Posts. One of the team had a heart attack so I'm picking up the slack and working something on the order of 14-17 hour days. Bleck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I'm still hoping to get out of here early on a few nights in the later half of the week to get this next release for the mod done. Regardless, I will have something by the weekend (or real early Monday morning) that will be of <hopefully> considerable worth.

I'm still mulling on Ph-D's whole external/internal mass thing, oy my head hurts!

Internal/External
Consider it more effective cargo storage. So a strut is mounted on the ship and the increased cargo capacity are large cargo containers that are attached to the ship. How's that? Ditto for the external fighter catapults. The reason they kind of act as armor is that they are more exposed and easier to target, and who wouldn't want to cripple a ship's ability to launch/recover fighters?

Gregbowman
The current target is a lot of PBW stuff, but PF, Simon and I have also been hard at work on the AI side of things. The PBW/M is important, as it will let us test the mod as a whole in ways I would never think. It will help us to root out abussive weapons or make useless weapons useful. It also gives us some insight into what to have the AI do. My 'ultimate' goal is a solid AI with a quality mod, something that is challenging, but not impossible. Ah, to dream!

Killer
What type of errors?

AGoetz
I downloaded your save and am trying to fix up the AI to avoid the errors.

Lighthorse
What I 'really' want is one shot missiles/weapons, or has that been added and I missed it? I know I can make it fire once per combat giving it a reload of 30. Could also make it destroyed after use, or is that only for components used on the main screen of buttons?

Nomor
Heh, good story http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Pathfinder
I'm sure he is referring to having all of your AI in one easy to use capsule - not actual new AI again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 18, 2002, 00:14: Message edited by: Val ]

[jimbob]

Nomor asked:
Would it not be relative. If a pea came hurtling at you at .99c and hit your 6 foot steel hull would that not be the same as a 6 foot steel hull hitting a pea at .99c. The greater mass would win? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If my Newtonian physics memory serves me, the equation for momentum is p=0.5 x mass x velocity^2. Therefore an increase in velocity has far more effect than mass in determining the total kinetic energy delivered. Of course this only applies at lower (Newtonian) velocities. I think that the energies required to accelerate a mass into the higher velocity realms would be much higher, imparting a greater kinetic energy, and so a higher damage potential than would be expected by Newtonian equations.

As to how well a 6 foot steel hull would stand up to this, you would need to determine how much kinetic force it could withstand (steel grade, reinforcement, any curvature for ablative effects, etc. all would come into play).

Val: I think that the intention of ship size is to indicate how much mass could be held within the confines of the ship (that is "inside" the ship). So while anything bolted onto the exterior should, in purely physical terms, count towards the mass limit for the ship type, the game simply doesn't allow us to model the difference between total ship mass and interior volume.
So, for the sake of gameplay, reducing the mass of external components remains the best method for modelling the fact that it is on the exterior, leaving more room inside the ship for other components. I suppose there should be a limit to how many externally mounted items there are (maybe limit of 1-2 of each item per ship) to indicate that you can't just keep stapling on more and more parts - there should be a theoretical limit to how much surface area a ship has afterall.

Just a few pennies worth...
Edited some sentences, now my pennies make more cents

[ September 18, 2002, 00:31: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Nomor]

I still think someone dropped a spanner.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif It's 12.45 AM Time for bed. I agree with your pennies worth... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ September 18, 2002, 00:50: Message edited by: Nomor ]

[President_Elect_Shang]

I must point out my original post (Sep. 17 at 5:09) in that my “external” component was 0 tonnage space and 1 tonnage structure. It would absorb some damage (hence giving the armor ability) but would not take up any “internal” space of the ship. So why did this open a can of worms? Val said that the component needed the tonnage increased. I still say no it does not. This component works as I have tested it but now the AI Moding gurus need to see if they can make something like this work. The problem I was referring to in my original post is that without tight limits placed on each hull size I would think that the AI could run away and place hundreds of such components on a ship. This is also (if you were wondering) how the topic of mass and the affects of mass got started. This was not my intention.

*Edited after reading Jimbob's post again* Ya, what he just said!

[ September 18, 2002, 02:11: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Captain Kwok]

I also have made a component with zero tonnage and 1 damage pt. I haven't had many problems with it, but I haven't tested it all that much. I would recommend that you limit the amount of these components that could be added to a ship with "One Per"-"Ten Per".

[President_Elect_Shang]

Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I also have made a component with zero tonnage and 1 damage pt. I haven't had many problems with it, but I haven't tested it all that much. I would recommend that you limit the amount of these components that could be added to a ship with "One Per"-"Ten Per".<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I did 1 per 50 hull spaces. In SE terms 1 per 50kt of the total ship size. I think more or less the same thing you did. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
What I am really driving at is that my Mod is a very, very long way from finished and I have yet to start working on the AI. So I don't know what kind of effects this component will have. At this point an AI Moding guru is needed to review and test it.

[ September 18, 2002, 02:40: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

[Captain Kwok]

I think you misunderstood. I was referring to limiting the amount of components allowed using the "One Per Vehicle" through "Ten Per Vehicle" entry for restrictions.

[killer]

For example "Could not find "Primary Bitmap Name" in record Destroyer"

My dad and I can hix these arers but it is very time consuming.

killer out

[Captain Kwok]

Originally posted by killer:
For example "Could not find "Primary Bitmap Name" in record Destroyer"

My dad and I can hix these arers but it is very time consuming.

killer out<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks like you might be using the non-Gold Version of the Bab 5 mod - that would generate those kinds of errors!

[Timstone]

Imperator Fyron:
I know that all this has nothing toi do with SE IV, but I just wanted to bring in some real physics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Jimbob:
Good work man! You sound like a real scientist.

And you can really achieve .99 c, it's takes up a lot of energy, but it can be done. I must point out that we CAN'T do it now, we haven't got the technology for it yet. Yet...
The problem is energy. You need energy to propel your craft towards c. If you calculate how much energy you ned to propel your craft you would find you need more mass of energy that you have mass of the craft. So need more room to store the energy, that brings in more mass and that in turn brings in more energy needed. A loop.
The ting we need is a far more efficient powersource and far more effecient engines.
Here are 2 very interesting links:
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/images/warp/warp07.gif
http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/PAO/warp.htm

I'm sorry if my English isn't that good, but I've had a very long and busy night (working late).

[Fyron]

Originally posted by jimbob:
Nomor asked:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Would it not be relative. If a pea came hurtling at you at .99c and hit your 6 foot steel hull would that not be the same as a 6 foot steel hull hitting a pea at .99c. The greater mass would win? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If my Newtonian physics memory serves me, the equation for momentum is p=0.5 x mass x velocity^2. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... your Newtonian physics memory doesn't hold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif In reality,

p=m x v
(momentum) = (mass) x (velocity)

E=0.5 x m x v^2
(energy) = 0.5 x (mass) x (velocity squared)

Timstone:
Well... Jimbob didn't use real physics there. He confused 2 equations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 18, 2002, 19:16: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Timstone]

Woops!

*His face gets redder than the shell of a lobster*

Damn, feeling stupid right now. I didn't look very well to the formulae. Won't happen again!

[Fyron]

Your points are still valid, nonetheless. They just don't really apply to SE4, cause such minutia can not be accurately modeled. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

So back to the list:

Technomages - Valll
Shadows - Dead Meat
Vorlons - Imperator Fyron
Soul Hunters - pathfinder
Drakh - tescosamoa
Minbari - Jimbob
Hyach - Zero Adunn
Centauri - Milton
Narns - Lighthorse
Earth Alliance - Rambie
Belt Alliance -
Raiders -
Abbai - Nomorlurk (Simon)
Drazi - Stargrazer
Vree - Timstone
Gaim - AGoetz
Pakmara (maybe) -

These players are either undecided or haven't picked yet (or there were conflicts of interest ):
Gandalf

Ok... someone get in contact with Gandalf and see what race he wants to play.

Is Milton the name that guy uses on PBW? If so, that's fine. If not, I need his PBW nick, to be able to assing all the players to empires in one fell swoop. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif