Babylon 5 Mod

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Hotmail does not allow file attachments larger than 1 MB... just upload to the forums. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Doh! It was originally too big to upload, and then I pared it down to just the text files, but forgot to note thatit was now uploadable here. The file is 1064524735.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1064524735.zip)

Several significant caveats: this is NOT Timstone's Babylon 5 Version 2.0, though there are some similarities.

This is NOT either Val's nor Pathfinder's original concept for the Gold Version. The fighters have been heavily modded to use QNP, and the engine system is completely new.

There are many AI files that got shoved into places for safekeeping and never got trimmed (although I trimmed by far the bulk of them). They don't affect the game.

Some races are both major and neutral races - that is in accordance with the uncertain status of them in the mod as a whole. The game treats them all as minors.

The Ai still puts excess cargo capacity in some of its designs. Cargo holds were reduced from 70 to 45 kt for a number of reasons (like my desire to get rid of the vessels that "cheated" on QNP) and that has made for some strange AI effects that I haven't yet tried to track down.

Colonizers now lift 50 pop vice 4. This is deliberate, as the AI now gains useful colonies almost as fast as the human player.

There are some minor tech tweaks, such as making Shadow-based and Vorlon-based techs findable, as opposed to reasearched (for the case of the EA and SBT, anyway). However, there are no components or facilities assigned to VBT and few to SBT.

There are new hulls for Unique Hull Design tech, and new Neurotech Education Centers for Ancient Neurotech that are just in the playtest phase. They are almost certainly too powerful, so if you want to eliminate those techs (by making facilities and hulls that use them require higher-than-possible levels of the tech) that's fine. Alternatively, you could just eliminate those hulls and facilities.

However, the game DOES play in Gold, and play pretty well. That was the objective. It ain't pretty, but it works.

Note that you still need all the other graphics, sound, and text files to play.

[Timstone]

Crap Grumbler, you took post 3500!! Grr... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Concerning the progress of 2.0, I've had some time to numbercrush my way throught this week and I'm pleased to say I'm halfway throught the most important help file for 2.0. I'm afraid I can't explain within a few sentences, but it has something to do with the weapons of 2.0. I've completely rewrote the weapons (damage, size, range and cost).

G-Machine:
Why do you want to stay anominous?

Edit:
At least I got post 3501.

[ September 28, 2003, 11:09: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Omnicron1]

I know i've asked this b4 but it got lost in the 224 pages this thread holds...does anyone have the necessary files to make the b5 mod gold compatible...thnx!

[G-Machine]

Timstone:

I wanted to remain anonymous because I didn't want other people who are playing the pbw game with me to know which race was pumping out the great machines. But seeing as I can't seem to build them at all, I don't know if it matters, I guess they can know that I have dumped a ton of research into developing the great machine and now can't build it. Doh!!

[jimbob]

Yeah, annonymous hey?? I know who you are, and I'd like to renegotiate our original agreement in light of the fact that I could spill the beans on you. My silence will cost you 1 extra machine (bwahahahaha)

Other PBW Players: could we update everyone's component files to allow the use of the GM? I've got an interest in having this fixed, as does the "annonymous" member who has invested research points in this little device.

Edit: Oh, and my files are probably corrupted again. I'll need a day to delete and replace B5 mod. can we suspend the next turn by just one day (say Tuesday 6 pm) please? I promise I'll get on this quickly.

Cheers all,
Jimbob

[ September 29, 2003, 16:47: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Omnicron1]

can anyone make the B5 mod work in SEIV Gold?

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Omnicron1:
can anyone make the B5 mod work in SEIV Gold?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Check out grumblers recent post, there is a link to the Gold Version there. It is playable, based on the pre-gold mod, but is still a work in progress.

Unzip it overtop of the files from Rambies SE4 Shipyards, there is a readme.txt in the zip. You will also have to delete/rename the Yolu_AI_Fleets.txt and Yolu_AI_Settings.txt files as these seem to have been missed.

[Fyron]

Why delete those files? Just fix them yourself. All you need to do is copy some lines from the default AI files into those 2 files. The game tells you exactly what the lines are, even. Just open the default AI files from stock SE4 Gold and those from the Yolu (those missing lines) and copy over the lines missing. There are not many of them.

[pathfinder]

Swordsman: Da Path is me. I worked on the MOD until maybe March. I feel that I do not have the required knowledge to do the fixes to some fexing problems that the B5 Version I was working on AND the weapons balancing most players wanted. *shrug* Not a programmer here nor much of a B5 fan either. Another factor was "canon" vs non-canon and which data was which.

[grumbler]

Path! Good to hear from you again. Agree that the problems are pretty much as you outlined them. Your AI files were brilliant, though. I had to slightly mod a couple of them and was very impressed by the thought you put into them.

[pathfinder]

Grumbler: Thanks.

All: I may yet dive back in as recent play has reminded me of a coupla things that MAY help a couple of problems. No guarantees but I'll try. Still won't do much with the weapons as I honestly don't have a clue as to how to fix them. I do have a comment: I personally like the wide variety, especially the EA weapons. Mainly because the player is REQUIRED to THINK about strategizing research and getting most bang for the credit/time spent.

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Swordsman: Da Path is me. I worked on the MOD until maybe March. I feel that I do not have the required knowledge to do the fixes to some fexing problems that the B5 Version I was working on AND the weapons balancing most players wanted. *shrug* Not a programmer here nor much of a B5 fan either. Another factor was "canon" vs non-canon and which data was which.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Aha, I am now enlightened!

I am a programmer, a B5 fan, and willing to help where I can, but I may have play and learn the game a lot more to become useful.

[Swordsman]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Why delete those files? Just fix them yourself. All you need to do is copy some lines from the default AI files into those 2 files. The game tells you exactly what the lines are, even. Just open the default AI files from stock SE4 Gold and those from the Yolu (those missing lines) and copy over the lines missing. There are not many of them.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh. Didn't think of that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I thought it would be the same as the earlier AI problems I was having with the pre-gold Version, but apparently not.

[Timstone]

Da Path is back!

*Croud cheers fanaticly*

Good to see you back. How´s life treating you?

[pathfinder]

Timstone: Other than hurricane Isabel, things have been fine. You?

[jimbob]

Previously I posted:
Edit: Oh, and my files are probably corrupted again. I'll need a day to delete and replace B5 mod. can we suspend the next turn by just one day (say Tuesday 6 pm) please? I promise I'll get on this quickly.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks IF! Everything's fine now. I appreciate everyone's patience.

Also, any response on that whole Great Machine connundrum?

[Fyron]

Doesn't seem to be any response, unless there was some on the PBW forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif But then, the players in this game are not very responsive...

[jimbob]

Alright then, I'll restate my position. I'd like everyone in the PBW game to go into their components file and use find to locate the Planetary Gun. The line:

Vehicle Type := Ship

needs to be changed to

Vehicle Type := WeapPlatform

That's it really, and it will make the Great Machine usable for those of us that found the ruins and have researched it and/or are purchasing said devices from those who have spent the research points on developing this device. We will all need to make the text file change simultaneously with PBW however, or we will start getting errors (I guess this is sort of obvious). When can we make the change?

[jimbob]

Okay, yup, lots of you are okay with the change (just checked the B5 PBW forum again). I guess we just need our illustrious leader (IF, that's you, as if there was any doubt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) to coordinate the PBW side of things and get back to us on the timing.

Edit: Hey punk, I'm doing all the work here, I want an additional discount on my machines!

[ October 02, 2003, 15:43: Message edited by: jimbob ]

[Fyron]

No time to check PBW... but if a majority of the players (at least half of them) have posted in support of this, send an email to Geoschmo about it, as he is the one that handles the mods on PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[grumbler]

Have you changed the stats for the Great machine weapons platform? Because if you haven't, trying to deploy the GM will be kinda hard...

It is 20,600 kt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif A huge planet (with homeword atmosphere) has 16,000 kt of cargo space. Adding in a HH and depot gives a total of 26,000 kt, leaving little room for anything else. Colony Hub plus Manufacturing colonies plus depot does the same. Frankly, I only ever built one, just to see it in action, and it crippled that planet for use as a staging area. I suppose you could just build several depots to allow it to be housed (or get a bit more slack if you have AST), but ...

[Fyron]

The whole point is to cripple the planet as a staging area. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[jimbob]

yah, that's what I'm hoping for, cripple me up baby http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Timstone: Other than hurricane Isabel, things have been fine. You?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Whoeps, sorry for the not so speedy reply. But I'm fine, a bit busy, but fine. Work on 2.0 continues during my spare time (I haven't got the chance anymore to work on it during working hours (yes, I'm evil!)). Any damage due to Isabel?

[pathfinder]

Just a couple of trees down. Minor water damage to the master bedroom and den due to some bad siding.

[Timstone]

Hmm... that doesn't sound too good if you ask me. Were you right in the path (excuse the pun) of Isabel?

Damn, I thought I had the correct formulae for calculating the weight in relation to the damage of a weapon, but it prooved to be a misser... again. This is driving me mad, I'm busy figuring out the correct aproach for this problem for weeks now. This is really getting teadious.

[pathfinder]

Timstone: yes, eye passed just to the west of us. I am a bit inland so the winds were only 40-45 mph. Trust me....at least the trees did not hit the house. Plenty of others had trees fall on their houses or similar calamities.

[Timstone]

Glad you made it out without too much damage.

Question to all: Do you think it would gameplay greately if I change the whole weapon damage calculation (together with the weight stuff)?

[Fyron]

Here is a Version of the spread sheet Val made when he was making the weapons:

B5 Weapons.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1065736284.zip)

It is not the Last Version he made, but it has all the formulae in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Timstone]

Thanks IF! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
Too bad it doesn't have the formulae for calculating the weight of the weapons, it doesn't show the weight of the weapons at all. Ah well, better something than nothing, right?

SJ: How about that armor thingie I asked you about some time ago? Do you have any cool ideas?

[Timstone]

*an entire orchestra fills a tight room and plays as loudy as possible a very bombastic symphony*

Success! I have completed the biggest hurdle in the one file that is really going to help me build the biggest part of the 2.0 Version. The file in question determines weight, cost, damage, and accuracy of the weapons in The Mod. Once I've completed this file I'll be able to produce the weapons in a very short amount of time.
Coming weekend I'll have absolutely no time to continue on this great file, but in the weeks after that I'll have plenty of time to continue on it again.

Sight, I wish I could work fulltime on 2.0.

Suggestions, remarks, criticism, questions, all are welcome. Just post 'em here (or send me a pm).

Edit: Stupid typos, there are always more!

[ October 17, 2003, 10:00: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Suicide Junkie]

SJ: How about that armor thingie I asked you about some time ago? Do you have any cool ideas?<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oop. Get back to you right after this midterm exam, k?

[ October 17, 2003, 11:51: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Here's the file I found on it:

1066408792.txt (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1066408792.txt)
I thought there was something more on the walkers and the energy-guys, though.

[Timstone]

Thanks SJ!
I'll check them out and place any comments/questions after your midterms.
Good luck with your midterms.

[grumbler]

Tim,

Care to share the basis for the weapons rebuild? It might save some grief later on if we could hash out the basis for the values you want to assign to weapons before you actually assign them.

For instance, are you planning to have the same numbers of "generic" weapons, or will each race have a completely race-specific set of weapons (with perhaps advantages and disadvantages in the given weapons tech areas)?

Are you plannning to fill all the gaps in the existing weapons sets (lots of races have few or no mega/ultra weapons and/or advanced weapons)?

I would love to cover this on the forum or via email or PM if you want to. It's been something that has needed doing for a long time.

[Timstone]

Hey there Grumbler! Good to hear from you again.

I've been busy on a fairly big Excel sheet to calculate all the things you need for a weapon. Because I was absolutely not happy about the way Val decided to do things I wanted to change that. I wasn't aware of the enormous labor this required (which only made my admiration for modbuilders and Val bigger).

I decided to stick to a proven game; Babylon 5 Wars 2nd Edition. Val more or less coupled his values (damage, cost, weight) to all the weapons in this serie of playmanuals. To discover which method Val used to calculate his weapons, I set out to evaluate his values. In the end I more or less found the formualae Val used. I adjusted these for my own use and according to my own sense of logic. Then I had to decide how to implement each race into The Mod.

After much debating with a friend of mine and talking to you guys and girls, I decided I should go for the original set up. Each race has the same techtree. Each race has a tiny, light, medium, heavy, mega and ultra weapon (there can be more than one weapons in a given weapon class). I'm still in doubt wether I should give one race more weapons in total then the other. I compensate this by making the cost ofthat race higher.

This Excel sheet takes up much time to fabricate (I do have my work in real live too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ). Therefore work progresses slowly, but surely. I say around 75% of the sheet is done. After this Version I plan on making a Delphi Version, althought I haven't got the skill to do that very quickly, maybe I strugle a bit more with Excel. Who knows. But to cut to the chase, I'm not planning to release a unfinished Version of this Excel sheet just yet. After it's done, I upload it here and everyone can give his or her comments on it. Untill this glorious day, you're all free to give advise, suggestions, demands and the like.

I don't mean to be blunt in this Last piece of text. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
Just sit tight and I'll deliver.


Edit: typos, typos, typos...

[ October 26, 2003, 07:35: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Timstone]

Hehe, just bosting my Posts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

To get back on how I plan on releasing The Mod.
I want to release the first part of The Mod (2.0) with two Ancients and three Young races. After this first release you pepole can give comments/suggestions/demands/... and I'll see what will be implemented. After this period the big plan is to release a race at a time (like seperate module). Hope you guys and girls like this. If not, please feel free to post a post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Timstone]

Damn it! Very soon now I'll have to leave for a torture day with the rest of my family. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Ah well, such is live. At least my GF is going with me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I was thinking about the Nomads. Should we include them or not? I know the P&N Mod has had some troubles with the inclusion of Nomads. So, should they be included or not?

[Suicide Junkie]

Trouble? No, just indecision.
Giving them negative maintenance ships which allows exponential growth (and makes them major players just like normals) or giving them almost-zero maintenance and a modest starting income (for almost linear growth without outside support)

It really all depends on how you want them to turn out.

[Timstone]

Sorry for my late reply.

I haven't got a clue how I would like them to be. I think they should be a player just like any other player. Althought this isn't canon to the B5 series. This is the most playable option (I think).
Any suggestions?

[grumbler]

Re: the Raiders. I think that if you were to give them negative maintenance (the coolest idea) they would be too much for any race located near them at the start. OTOH, if you make them just another race there seems to be little point to them (unless there are more graphics on them than I have seen). There is no shortage of normal races.

They didn't play a very big role in the B5 canon, anyway. I say fuggetaboudit for the forseeable future.

[gregebowman]

I've been playing off and on (more off than on) ever since I got my new computer and had to start re-downloading everything. I have a B5 Mod Gold file, but not sure if it's the most up to date. What is the latest Version of the B5 Mod, and where do I go to d/l the file(s)?

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by grumbler:
Re: the Raiders. I think that if you were to give them negative maintenance (the coolest idea) they would be too much for any race located near them at the start.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, it would be the opposite. They'd grow in strength exponentially unless they are harrassed early on before they can build up their resources.
Keep them with weaker weapons so they only have a limited supply of the better (stolen) items http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ October 28, 2003, 22:01: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
I've been playing off and on (more off than on) ever since I got my new computer and had to start re-downloading everything. I have a B5 Mod Gold file, but not sure if it's the most up to date. What is the latest Version of the B5 Mod, and where do I go to d/l the file(s)? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">found in the races/ai forum here:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001

I haven't done anything really since .... March?

Timstone has a much modified Version but it has not been released yet.

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
[ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001

I haven't done anything really since .... March?

Timstone has a much modified Version but it has not been released yet. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I was out of commission from February to April, so that would be about right. But now I have a yen to play that B5 mod. Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

p.s., whatever happened to the sci-fi crossover mod? Did anyone ever complete it?

[Timstone]

Hehe... the Scifi X-mod is on a bit of a hold.
Let's say they're waiting for the part of B5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Because of my slow progress (believe me or not, I hate it too) a number of people are getting more anxious by the day to see what I've had in mind for 2.0. Therefore the Scifi X-Mod is also waiting for my part. Sorry...

[Timstone]

Okay, another post in quick succession.

Because I've a lot of work to do. Progress on The Mod will be slow. Expect not much work of me untill the XMas holiday. During the XMas holiday I'm going to the US (cool, I've never been there. Las Vegas and LA here I come!). I'm sure I can do some work during my visit in the US. So beginning next year I'll be able to launch the first release of 2.0. So a little bit more patience please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Actually, it would be the opposite. They'd grow in strength exponentially unless they are harrassed early on before they can build up their resources.
Keep them with weaker weapons so they only have a limited supply of the better (stolen) items http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The problem with the Raiders is that they only exist in one area and so will only be an issue for one race (two at most). I have played games with raiders like this and can attest that for the afflicted race this is a real burden. Late in the game, the Raiders are so far behind in tech that it doesn't matter, but early (between, say, turns 50 and 150) attacks by the raiders can be very debilitating and destabilize the game balance.

If raiders were more of a universal "background" threat they would be great.

[Timstone]

Da Path returns! Good to hear from you again!

Okay, the Raiders should have negative maintenance with weak weapons. And what about colonizing? Should they be able to colonize?
If they require too much work to do right now, I skip them for now and release them in the next Version. But by all means, keep the good ideas coming.

[ October 29, 2003, 12:29: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Timstone]

I've been looking to implemet the Raiders quickly, but it's a hell of a job to do in a late afternoon or a lost evening. So, I'll plan them in the next Version of 2.0. Sorry for this, but please let the good ideas coming. For now I concentrate on the Ancients and the Young races.
This evening is all mine! So, I'll can spend it all on The Mod. Jippy!

[gregebowman]

Pathfinder,

I now got the B5 Mod Gold and B5 AI files. how do I combine the two files? Where exactly do the AI files go?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
Pathfinder,

I now got the B5 Mod Gold and B5 AI files. how do I combine the two files? Where exactly do the AI files go? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The hard way. Unzip to a stand-alone folder and the go in and copy/cut each races AI folder from there and place in the B5 MOD/Pictures/Races (or Neutral Race) folder. Pain but I do not have the Version of winzip that has a self-extracting capability.

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by gregebowman:
Pathfinder,

I now got the B5 Mod Gold and B5 AI files. how do I combine the two files? Where exactly do the AI files go? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The hard way. Unzip to a stand-alone folder and the go in and copy/cut each races AI folder from there and place in the B5 MOD/Pictures/Races (or Neutral Race) folder. Pain but I do not have the Version of winzip that has a self-extracting capability. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, thanks for the info. Whenever I have the time, I'll do that.

[Timstone]

Okay peeps, the main file (to make the weapons) is almost done. But unfortunately I had to drop a very cool idea. Because I'm not that skilled with programming I chose to use Excel to make file which could help creating every weapon in The Mod. I wanted to implement a lot of things I had floating around in my mind. One of the ideas was to give each race a different resource useage for creating weapons. So each race uses different resources (different quantities) to create the same weapon. I was almost done implemnting it when I discovered I had to make 2640 different sections to accomodate it all in an ordely fashion. So I had to drop it.

I do have a small question about excel. I use Excel XP and I want to make a "listbox". How do I do that?! Please help me with this. Maybe I'll be able to implement the race specific resource useage then.

[jimbob]

hey, don't look at me, I'm happy when I can use it for standard deviation.

[pathfinder]

Don't know much about excel.

[Timstone]

So nobody has a good idea about my question regarding Excel?!

[XenoTheMorph]

Well I've never used a list_box in my life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
But after extensive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif testing (Excel 2000 only)-

1. Open the View menu and goto Toolbars > Forms.

2. On the Now visible Forms Menu choose the 4th icon down on the Left (at least in Excel 2000), place/size the listbox

3. Now Right-Click (you can assign a macro at this stage, for when the listbox is selected) to get the properties.

4. In properties you can of course cahnge the size of the box, also on the Control Tab You can assign the cells to get the list from (directly or by an assigned name), and the cell/s to write to.

O.K. thats the basics and I still don't know how to use them properly (for similar stuff I normally use the Data Validation List option). I have only been able to get them to output the number of the option on the list to the written to cell, and only with the Single selection option.

Best of luck
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Timstone]

Oh yeah! Now this rocks! Thanks for the info mate!

Okay, as soon as I have internet back at home (currently I'm posting from my work), I'll post the main creation file (the excel stuff. Then you all can give critisism, advise, demands and so on.

Till soon dudes!

[Fyron]

SJ and I have come accross a possible mix-up and do not agree on it... go into your B5 Mod\Pictures\Events folder and look at these two images:
IntelEspionageByUs.bmp
IntelSabotageByUs.bmp

Do these look like they should be switched? The espionage is a guy with a PPG and the sabotage is a guy using high-powered binoculars.

[ November 15, 2003, 03:36: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Atrocities]

Foregive my stupid question, but whatever happened to Val?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Foregive my stupid question, but whatever happened to Val? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He "disappeared" about this time Last year. Made a brief appearance in February and not heard from since.

[Stargrazer]

With regards to the immage issue... Yes, one does not usually sabotage with binoculars and spy with a PPG. Switch'em.

[Starfishy]

Yep, I say switchem as well.

[Atrocities]

That is a shame. When people are active for so long, and then just dissappear one has to wonder what happened to them. Are they alive, are they well?

[Timstone]

Hey guys and girls,

About Val, yeps. Pretty strange. I got a mail from him back in february, but that was all. Just like the other people I don't know Jack S!!t about his situation, but I sure hope he's alright and if he is. I sure hope he takes a look at 2.0 (when it is finished).

About the pics: Swithed them. Thanks for the info guys!

Btw: the main construction file (the help file I talked about) is nearing completion. I think it's ready the weekend.

Bye, bye, till soon!

[Lighthorse]

For the players of B5 mod PBW,

I notices that our PBW B5 Mod is slowly dieing off with about half the game positions open now. The length of time between moves is also increasing. I'm losing focus with my race the Narn Regime.
I will be out of town for Thanksgiving, so I'm not helping neither.
If there anyone interested in B5 mod, check it out at SE4 PBW, Babylon 5 game. There some real neat empires open. Be advise, this game is a slow developing game, thus it take so time to build up ones empire. So if you take over an open empire, your not at any real disadvantage.
After ninty turns invested in this campaign, I would like to complete it.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

PBW being down did not help the turn rate any... and several times the game failed to process automatically on PBW before it went down, which increased the delays. But don't worry, the game will be going fully auto after Thanksgiving (probably Saturday or Sunday). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Lighthorse]

You're right about the PBW being down didn't help any. My problem is I prefer gaming on SE4, t han any other computer game, bar none. My top seconds computer games are combat missions and the three total war games. I still enjoy SE4 star trek and B5 mod above all other games.

Lighthorse
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Looks like we get a new turn long before the deadline. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Has anybody mentioned how very useless solar panels are?

1) They need storage to match their supply gathering, or its all wasted.
2) They need to be more powerful (50 points vs 1000's for basic reactors?!)
3) They should be cheaper than reactors.

I suggest 50% the power output per kt size.
And 50% the mineral cost per energy generated, with little to no rads cost. (All relative to reactors)

Given reactors of size 5kt provide 2500 power per turn, that would mean solar panels of size 10kt should provide, perhaps 1500/2000/2500 per turn.
A cost of 200 would make it 50% less than the reactor.

I also think reactors could really use a rads cost increase, especially for the advanced level ones.
Is there some taboo about having rads cost higher than minerals cost??

[Fyron]

Is there some taboo about having rads cost higher than minerals cost?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You'd have to ask Val... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[jimbob]

SJ: PM

[grumbler]

I thought solar panels just a remnant from earlier mods from which this mod was derived. They have long since disappeared from my Version of the mod (since I never saw them in the series, except maybe for the mysterious Vorlon "wings").

In recent games I have become convinced that the Hyach are much too good for the sake of the game. As you mod this, you need to make them less powerful - they have excellent cloaking, superior laser weapons and PD weapons, and no counterbalancing flaws. Birthrate alone (plus maybe a reluctance to build colony ships) would keep them in check.

[Suicide Junkie]

Uhm... You see solar panels in every single episode.

Most prominently on the station itself.
Which points towards them being more economical, if bulky and useless on most warships.

PS:
Jimbob, I don't think I got your PM...

[ November 30, 2003, 22:48: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[grumbler]

I always saw them as heat diffUsers, myself. Maybe I was just engaging in wishful thinking, though. Why would anyone with a large fusion reactor (referred to multiple times) bother with solar panels?

Heat, OTOH, especially WITH a reactor, would be a problem in a densley populated station with a circular cross-section.

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Uhm... You see solar panels in every single episode.

Most prominently on the station itself.
Which points towards them being more economical, if bulky and useless on most warships.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[Suicide Junkie]

I think the solar panels could make up most of the standard-operations power requirements, while the fusion reactor would be used for peak periods, such as during eclipses, rush hour, and combat.

The sunlight is also free, while fuel isn't, and it can't be blockaded http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

[ December 01, 2003, 01:18: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[Fyron]

Unless, of course, you are the Shadow and bring in a planet killer to blot out the sunlight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The Vorlons can get a similar effect with their planet killers, but not nearly as effective.

[grumbler]

Maybe. Since B5 was in orbit aroubd Epsilon 3, though, and it was fusion not fission, what are the odds that the smart builder relied on there being more hydrogen available than sunlight? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Having looked at the panels in question, it seems that you are right, thought. They LOOK like solar power panels... but then what do we know about how 25th Century heat diffUsers would look?

It seems simpler to ignore the whole solar panels/reactor fuel question, but it WOULD make the game much more interesting to have fuel supplies be large but limited.

That would especially be true for fighters....

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Unless, of course, you are the Shadow and bring in a planet killer to blot out the sunlight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The Vorlons can get a similar effect with their planet killers, but not nearly as effective. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, if you kill the planet, are you worried abouthow much sunlight gets in to reveal the remnants? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[Fyron]

Originally posted by grumbler:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Unless, of course, you are the Shadow and bring in a planet killer to blot out the sunlight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The Vorlons can get a similar effect with their planet killers, but not nearly as effective. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, if you kill the planet, are you worried abouthow much sunlight gets in to reveal the remnants? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can blockade with a Shadow planet killer easily. Just move it over the target base or planet to blockade, half the work is done for you. Shadow planet killers do not have to be used to destroy planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Fyron]

Unfortunately, the only Vorlon based weapon that seems to exist is the improved neutron laser. Shadow based weapons have a few sizes of improved molecular beams, and that is it. So much potential, so much not there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I think that in the Gold Version of the mod, Vorlon-based and Shadow-based "weapons" should just be cool improved mounts, so any weapon can be enhanced without having to triple the number of components. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Suicide Junkie]

Plain old Hydrogen isn't terribly good for fusion reactors. Not enough neutrons in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You need to pull the minute amounts of Deuterium and Tritium from your collected gas, and that is where the big costs would come in.
http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/H/isot.html
(Tritium has a half-life of only 12 years, and thus isn't in the chart). Neutron bombardment will make you some.

[grumbler]

It is estimated that 1 in 7000 hydrogen atoms are deuterium. Not exactly rare or expensive!

My point is that a fusion reactor as the sole source of power makes far more sense than a mixed fusion reactor and solar panels in an orbiting station. Has anyone any actual evidence that the panels on B5 are primarily solar panels and not heat diffUsers? My copy of the B5 Security manual cals them "Heat Exchangers and Emergency Solar Collectors."

I don't think the game needs to bother with such things as "emergency power sources" else we will get into such trivia as having both "gravitational" and "magnetic" drives on the White Stars!

[Suicide Junkie]

That matches the abundance given in the link below. When 99.99% of your starting material is not what you want, I'd call that pretty rare.

The economics of it are unknown, but the cost, though low, is probably not trivial.

My copy of the B5 Security manual cals them "Heat Exchangers and Emergency Solar Collectors."<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Given their use as emergency power, they'd certainly be able to generate enough for rotation and lifesupport.
And, since there are zero costs to using solar panels if you've got them already, they'll always be generating some juice. (As I recall, the star was pretty much always at approximately the correct angles during "daytime")

Considering the station activities, lifesupport would be a very major portion of the peacetime energy budget (if you count illumination too).

Thusly, I would conclude that the solar panels will be juicing up the station for most of the day-to-day operations, with the reactor providing night/combat/peak usage services. Likely running at low output or just "warmed up" all the time except for maintenance cycles.

-----

PS:
All I really want is for the mod to have a viable set of Solar Panel components as an alternative to reactors in some situations. (Long-term, medium-low energy use bases and probes)

Some modest energy storage components would be nice too. Perhaps 4-turns worth of generation build into the solar panel component?

[ December 05, 2003, 03:46: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

[grumbler]

Seems the thread is a bit dead recently! I hope this is just because of the release of Victoria http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In any case, are we agreed that the radioactive resource is too widely available and too little required?

It would be pretty simple to fix both problems. However, I think that rads should also be needed more in the weapons field (and thus for satellites)... but I am coming to the belief that it is in the area of satellites that solar powered weapons and launch systems should really shine. (pun intended) If we get rid of the auto-refuelling nature of planetary facilities, then the satellites will need a power source, and THAT is where solar will "shine"!

[Klebdog]

Where can I download the latest Gold Patch for B5 and which one is it just to make sure?

[Suicide Junkie]

... but I am coming to the belief that it is in the area of satellites that solar powered weapons and launch systems should really shine. (pun intended) If we get rid of the auto-refuelling nature of planetary facilities, then the satellites will need a power source, and THAT is where solar will "shine"! [/QB]<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Setellites have infinite supplies via hardcode, so that dosen't really work.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Klebdog:
Where can I download the latest Gold Patch for B5 and which one is it just to make sure? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Go to my post (June 15, 2003) in this link:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Setellites have infinite supplies via hardcode, so that dosen't really work. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The truly sad thing is that once upon a time I think I actually knew that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[Timstone]

Sorry for the adsence lately. But things are very busy at work right now. I have only one more thingy to calculate before I can release the main help file for B5 2.0. Sit tight.

[jimbob]

woohoo

looking forward to it man!

[Timstone]

Ah great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif , tomorrow I (and my GF) will leave for the USA. Nowadays my GF is my secretary (oh, yeah!! Now I won't have a jealous wife when I say I have scr#@&d my secretary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif !) I'm afraid I won't be able to do some work on The Mod untill 2004. Sorry lads. Hope I can make it up to you guys.

Anyway, have a nice time during the holidays!!

[solops]

Is this mod done and where can one get it?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by solops:
Is this mod done and where can one get it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">See my post about 3 down, has a link. Nope, isn't finished but no work being done on the linked Version. Timstone is working on a modification of the B5 MOD...

[Atrocities]

With all the Posts this thread has, one cannot help but wonder where it all went wrong.

Where is Val?

[jimbob]

Tim:

as always, and for many of us: If you'd like some help, there are plenty of free hours in the day for me. I could help with the mod, it's just that I don't have the time to do a mod.

let me/us know!

[Timstone]

Hi guys and girls,

My first glimpse of America was very good. I might come to like it afterall.
As I said many times before I can't use your help yet. It's cool of everybody to offer help though. Only when the main help/construction file is ready I can offer jobs. Sorry for the long wait. The file WILL be ready when I return from my trip to the USA. So sit tight and wait a little while longer. Till soon!

Edit: Thanks so much for all the offerings for help. Really, really cool. Thumbs up for you all! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 29, 2003, 23:22: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Klebdog]

Pathfinder, Thanks for the link! I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but now that I am back into a semi normal schedule I'll give it a go. Does this patch address all those error Messages that pop up on the core Mod files?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Klebdog:
Pathfinder, Thanks for the link! I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but now that I am back into a semi normal schedule I'll give it a go. Does this patch address all those error Messages that pop up on the core Mod files? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It should.

[Timstone]

Yeah! Post 3600!! Jippie!
Okay, back to work... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Klebdog]

Swordsman - I just used your layout for the B5 Patches on my Gold Version and it finally started up without any problems. I had to adjust some little things in the AI Setting files (Had to Add % of ships for Defense) and a couple of lines to the General file, but after that the game ran smooth. I'll keep you posted if I get any error's

[Timstone]

Okay, I've finaly finished work on the main help file. Because I can't upload it to shrapnel, I've received help from SJ to make it available to the people here.
Tomorrow we'll exchange the files and it will be availble to you soon after... I hope.
Hang on and watch this thread, It's soon going to be a busy place again.

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Timstone:
Okay, I've finaly finished work on the main help file. Because I can't upload it to shrapnel, I've received help from SJ to make it available to the people here.
Tomorrow we'll exchange the files and it will be availble to you soon after... I hope.
Hang on and watch this thread, It's soon going to be a busy place again. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great news!! Can't wait to play this mod.

[Timstone]

Damn it! My work account has made the files I send to my home account unreadable. It won't let me send the files. I'll just have to take the files with me on a rewritable. Sigh... more delay. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[Growltigger]

Does anyone know where (or if) there is a good Centauri shipset and AI? I use the Narn often, but would love to see those Centauri vessels zipping around the SEIVG map

[Fyron]

Have you checked on PBW?

[Growltigger]

Fyron, I havn't but that is only because every time I went on PBW, it was down. I shall try now.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Growltigger:
Does anyone know where (or if) there is a good Centauri shipset and AI? I use the Narn often, but would love to see those Centauri vessels zipping around the SEIVG map <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Centauri shipset was included in Bab5 racepicture download, I think.
http://www.geocities.com/b5mod/B5ModHome.html

and ger RaceFiles.zip

AI will not work in stock game of course. You will need to borrow one from other races.

[Timstone]

Bumb. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

Everybody, hear hear!

I finaly send the files to SJ and he was so kind to upload them onto his webpage. Here's the link:

B5 Mod 2.0 Weapon Construction Files (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/miscellaneous/timstone)

Please remember I'm not a programmer and my skills with Excel aren't that good. These files are just a little help for creating the weapons for the B5 Mod 2.0. In the past I got quite a few Messages from people who wanted to help with 2.0, my steady reply was that I was busy creating a few help files. Well here's your chance! These files can help people create weapons without compromising the gamebalance. And without too many questions.
In the very near future I'll give some more guidelines for weaponery (how weapons many per race, which class of weapons (light, medium, heavy, etc.) for which race, what they can target and on what kind of vehicle they can be mounted).

If you have suggestions, comments, questions or demands, please feel free to post them here.

I know you all have been waiting for these files for quite some time now. I can only say I'm sorry. I really needed some time to puzzle all the info into 2 files, correct errors/typo's and I had to deal with life itself too. Well enough apologies and explanation, let's DL theses files and give your opinion!

Hail to B5 and it's fans!

P.S. Special thanks for SJ who made it possible to DL these files.

[Timstone]

Nice of you guys and girls to post some feedback...
Hope you people are still out there.

[pathfinder]

Sorry, I have not been paying too much attention here. I'll check out the file Timstone and post my impressions.

[Timstone]

Wohoo! A response by none other than Da Path! Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

Looks ok by me Timstone. Though in all honesty all those numbers make my head hurt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That why I did not fiddle with the weapons myself.

[Timstone]

Haha, alrighty then! Thanks for the reply. I'll just go ahead with the weapons then.
But seriuosly, no comments?! Hmm... maybe it's just a good file, I made. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

I think that everyone that was involved with the B5 Mod is now dead or something. Or just gone... either way... :-\

[grumbler]

Just downloaded the file now. I will look at the numbers as best I can, and get back to you. Good to see some progress on this - I was getting concerned the project was dying.

Personally, the Last time I played with this mod (well, my mod of this mod, anyway) was... today. Finally shook the "Victoria" bug that has laid me low the Last few weeks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[grumbler]

On a seperate subject, I wondered if anyone thought the announcement that there is a new B5 project afoot would add interest in this project? I would have thought the DVD releases would have done the trick, but no joy.

[Timstone]

Huh? New B5 project? What do you mean, please explain.

Oh, good to see you back here Grumbler!

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Timstone:
Huh? New B5 project? What do you mean, please explain. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">JMS announced late Last year that he was finalizing a new project, not print and not a series, regarding B5. The initials of the title are all we know: B5:TMoS. Most speculation inthe community is that this is "Babylon 5: The Memory of Shadows" since at one point JMS announced that someone on the newsgroup had, in fact, guessed the right title and at that time most of the guesses were on the order of "The Meaning of Spoo."

Could be a computer game, but that's not likely, because he has referred to the efforts neded to get the script finished. Most likely, it is a TV miniseries or a theatrical release.

I think www.b5tv.com (http://www.b5tv.com) has some of the better forum discussions of this. The newsgroup discussions are larger but more disjointed. The actual postings of JMS can be gotten through www.jmsnews.com (http://www.jmsnews.com)

[gregebowman]

Speaking of B5, one thing has always puzzled me. Was there ever an explanation of how Sinclair travaled back through time to become Valen? I was always curious about this.

[Loser]

Vorlon magic.
Wait... there was a whole episode about that. That was the one with that wonder full character Zathrus, who was brought back later, but he just wasn't the same.

"Not the one, not the one, not the ... never use this one..."

He had some great lines.

[gregebowman]

Originally posted by Loser:
Vorlon magic.
Wait... there was a whole episode about that. That was the one with that wonder full character Zathrus, who was brought back later, but he just wasn't the same.

"Not the one, not the one, not the ... never use this one..."

He had some great lines. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I remember the episode where B4 showed up, and this one odd character was on the station. Don't remember the name, and since this was a first season show, Sinclair was still on B5. Then after B4 went through the time warp (or whatever they called it), there was an older Sinclair on the station. But IIRC, there was no explanation of Valen's origin.

[Loser]

Yeah, well, they had another one during the Sheridan years that cleared all that up.

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Loser:
Vorlon magic.
Wait... there was a whole episode about that. That was the one with that wonder full character Zathrus, who was brought back later, but he just wasn't the same.

"Not the one, not the one, not the ... never use this one..."

He had some great lines. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The correct name of the character is Zathras. And he's not alone, he's got many brothers. All named Zathras. Confusing isn't it?

The episodes you're all looking for is "War Without End part 1 & 2". I'm not going to explain the episodes right now. I'm too tired. Sorry, you'll have to watch it for yourself. It's quite complicated. If you don't understand these two episodes you probabely end up thinkling this is just another "El Cheapo" serie.

Grumbler: Thanks! I'll go on and read it when I'm awake again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
I must say I didn't know about this. Shame on me.

[ February 26, 2004, 19:25: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[gregebowman]

Darn, I guess I have to seriously think of putting the B5 series on layaway. but it seems like every time I put one of these dvd sets on layaway, something comes up and I have to cancel the layaway because I need the money. I'll try to this year, and hopefully I can pay it off before another one of those emergencies comes up.

[Timstone]

So I understand nobody has found something he/she would like to change about my help files? Hehe, I've made a perfect program then. Yeah, I can do something M!cr0s0ft has never done in it's long existence. Hah, I'm close to godhood.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by gregebowman:
But IIRC, there was no explanation of Valen's origin. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sinclair became Valen via the same triluminary process that changed Delenn, only in reverse. In fact, I asumed when I saw the show that the tliluminary used was Delenn's, and since she inherited it from Valen's time, and he got it from her, that meant it was never actually created!

Unfortunately, JMS took away that bit of fun by pointing out the Sinclair's triluminary came from the (Not So) Great machine.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Timstone:
So I understand nobody has found something he/she would like to change about my help files? Hehe, I've made a perfect program then. Yeah, I can do something M!cr0s0ft has never done in it's long existence. Hah, I'm close to godhood. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like the process very much, but it doesn't answer some of my fundamental questions, like
1) Should lasers outrange plasma cannons? In SD the Alexander fires at the Roanoke using plasma cannons (I think that's what the weapons were, unless they were pulse cannons) right at the start, but has to close the range "right down their throats" before firing her lasers.
2) Are we assuming that the interceptors used to stop plasma/pulse cannon attacks are incorporated into the ECM system? But then how to explain B5's use of the interceptors offensively against the "Roanoke"? And how to account for fighters used as interceptor both against missiles (as shown explicitly in Endgame) and, from what JMS has said, implicitly against plasma/pulse attacks?
3) No missiles are ever shown (AFAICR) being fired by ships? Why not?

Note that I lack the B5 Wars books, so I have only series canon to go on with this, but since we are trying to match the series and not the books, I feel a need to see some discussion on this. The stuff in the early days of this thread seemed to be entirely between people who had the B5W books.

Oh, and there is one correction I would make to your instructions, Tim. Before you can edit the weapons file to make it suitable for inclusion in compnents.txt, you need to paste it in the notepad. You cannot edit the clipboard viewer (I know, 'cause I tried). So there is a step left out.

[Timstone]

Originally posted by grumbler:
I like the process very much, but it doesn't answer some of my fundamental questions, like
1) Should lasers outrange plasma cannons? In SD the Alexander fires at the Roanoke using plasma cannons (I think that's what the weapons were, unless they were pulse cannons) right at the start, but has to close the range "right down their throats" before firing her lasers.
2) Are we assuming that the interceptors used to stop plasma/pulse cannon attacks are incorporated into the ECM system? But then how to explain B5's use of the interceptors offensively against the "Roanoke"? And how to account for fighters used as interceptor both against missiles (as shown explicitly in Endgame) and, from what JMS has said, implicitly against plasma/pulse attacks?
3) No missiles are ever shown (AFAICR) being fired by ships? Why not?

Note that I lack the B5 Wars books, so I have only series canon to go on with this, but since we are trying to match the series and not the books, I feel a need to see some discussion on this. The stuff in the early days of this thread seemed to be entirely between people who had the B5W books.

Oh, and there is one correction I would make to your instructions, Tim. Before you can edit the weapons file to make it suitable for inclusion in compnents.txt, you need to paste it in the notepad. You cannot edit the clipboard viewer (I know, 'cause I tried). So there is a step left out. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because you lack the B5 Wars books, you didn't know there are some important data included there. But if you read carefully and give some test input on my sheet, you can see it from the sheet itself.
Range is determined by the damage deterioration. And that is included in the B5 Wars books.

The sheet I made doesn't give answers on the vehicles a weapon can be mounted, nor does it give answer to the question what target it can fire upon. I must set clear standards for that yet. I have good idea's, but they need to be typed out first.

In the beginning (when I came up with the idea to make 2.0), I explained why I wanted to use the B5 Wars books and not the series as the blueprint for 2.0.
1) The series are very contradictory, what can be done in one episode can't be done in another. Don't ask me for examples, but I'm sure there are such instances.
2) The B5 Wars books are already invented, they represent a gaming system that already has proven itself. Why invent the wheel again?!
3) The data from the books is easily translated into SE IV "language".

Hold in mind that the B5 Wars Books show generalisation. A good explanation for statement 1) is that every race has it's own weaponery, it's own modifications to it. So they perform different. Maybe the ship's captain has altered it's weaponery somewhat, who knows.
Anyway I wanted to adopt the B5 Wars books mainly because of statement 2) and 3). I'm a lazy type of guy.

Thanks for the comment on the instructions. I use a Dutch Version of XP, so I don't know the English names too well. It will be altered.

Anything else?

P.S. Thanks for the comments Grumbler. I salute you.

Edit: Typo's, damn them!!

[ March 02, 2004, 07:42: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Antarian]

Hi. It`s been a while since my Last visit...
Any update on the mod status? Is it way down the hill or what? What have you run out of people? Fun? Money? Time? Luck? Human resources? About a month ago a was in NY and bought 3 seasons of the show! Dudes, that`s the stuuuuffff. Plenti of data to use. Images to extract and etc. But you also do have those DVDs. But you still seem to have no inspiration? Or am i mistaken?
P.S. Excuse my poor english, typos and so on. Not native to eng-speaking countries. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Timstone]

We're still somewhat busy on the mod, but real life takes it's toll. I must regret to say we still haven't got anything to download yet. Well, exept for some mysterious help files.
My best advise is to sit tight and wait for another update.

[Antarian]

Greetings again. Is it possible to answer the following questions:
1) Who is responsible for mod development now?
2) Who is Val and where is he now? (After his... hm... departure mt erythinig is on a halt.)
3) On what stage is the mod now?
4) Who has the latest files?
5) What do you need in order to finish the mod?
6) Why not update at least one site about this mod?
Thanx.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Antarian:
Greetings again. Is it possible to answer the following questions:
1) Who is responsible for mod development now?
2) Who is Val and where is he now? (After his... hm... departure mt erythinig is on a halt.)
3) On what stage is the mod now?
4) Who has the latest files?
5) What do you need in order to finish the mod?
6) Why not update at least one site about this mod?
Thanx. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1-Timstone (MOD 2).
2-Val was originator of MOD, disappeared around November 2002
3-MOD 1 (Val Version) complete ((mostly)
4-Search the new mod forum for the files. OR search this thread....I posted them back in June 2003
5-*shrug* In my opoinion is done except for a few bugs and some weapons balancing
6-This site/thread is updated with the latest of MOD 1.

[ March 04, 2004, 21:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[solops]

ModCore Version 30 of the Bab 5 Mod is available for download at http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm for both SEIV 1.49 and SEIV Gold.

However, three additional updates are also available bringing it up to Update33.

BUT no comment is made on whether these are compatible with both SEIV Gold and SEIV 1.49. Since the mod was originally for SEIV 1.49 there is some question as to the updates’ Gold compatibility.

Can anyone clarify this?

[grumbler]

While we are awaiting the new weapons contents of the components file (and I cannot help with that as I have none of the B5 Wars books), I thought it might be useful to discuss the way in which the mod should address the “found techs.” These, right now, are:

20 - Cure for Nano-Plague
21 - Great Machine
22 - Ship Automation
23 - Stellar Balancer
24 - Ancient Neurotech
25 - Ancient Atmospheric Adjuster
26 - Unique Ship Class
27 - Universal Colonizer

20, 21, 23, 24, 25 and 27 have been implemented. I have never seen a use for 23, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. The rest seem to work as designed (once you correct the GM cannon to be a planetary vice ship weapon).

22, Ship Automation, COULD be implemented by allowing the discoverer to build Shadow-like CPUs, but this seems very much against the canon. Is there any way to have such a component count as two crew quarters and two life support? I haven’t been able to make that work.

24, Ancient Neurotech, can be implemented by creating a new series of facilities that have advantages over existing facilities. Since the description is “Allows your race to create a neural link to enhance research” I created “Neurotech Research Centers” in my mod of the mod to provide enhanced research capabilities. The downside to them in my Version is that you have to progress in both Neurotech and Research before you can upgrade a NRF... but that seems to work out as well.

26, Unique Ship Class, is a bit harder. It is described as “Allows your race to create more unique class of ship based on the wreckage” but the concept of “more unique” is a bit baffling! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I have tried two approaches:
1. Each class of ship now has an “advanced” Version of it, and a la the Whitestars and (possibly) the Warlocks, the “advanced” Version has limited self-repair (one component per turn up to BC, then 2 per turn up to SD, and then 3 for larger). Perhaps a speed bonus could go with it.
2. There is a “unique” hull for each basic ship type (subdestroyers, destroyers, cruisers, battleships, dreadnoughts, baseships, etc) that is built of advanced materials, or whatever, and so has an engine per ton ratio of 1 to 60 instead of 1 to 50.
The disadvantage of the first approach is that I cannot get the AI to use it. The disadvantage of the second approach it that it reduces the variation of ships produced once the tech is discovered.

I would also make two other changes to the unique techs:
1. Make Shadow tech and Vorlon tech (or maybe just the former) discoverable.
2. Make the actual discoverable tech “Cure for Nano-Plague Clues,” “Great Machine Clues,” etc, with the clues simply opening the tech area for research. This makes it the responsibility of the player to decide when to start research into these areas (the AI can be told to research them as a priority), and it also prevents the player from getting level 2 or 3 techs by finding the same tech multiple times.

I have also found that the Stellar Abilities file needs to be updated to allow all of the unique techs, but I will hold off on posting a proposed mod until we reach a consensus on what the unique techs should be.

Thoughts?

[Timstone]

Hah, it's great to have you around here Grumbler. I really apreciate all the thinking you do.

The books, no sweat mister. Let's put some sort of roster; who does what.

I say, I make weapons. And the divide them into the proper family, I also would like to take the facilities under my wing.

The rest is out for the grabs.

I will come up with some more rules for the weapons. I won't do all the races in one go, that would be far too much work for one person (I want to implement about 42 races). So I want to include only a few races in the first release of 2.0, I'll see later which races and how many.
If somebody can help me with the rest, please do. I would really appreciate that.


Question: What about the great machine? How should I implement it?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by solops:
ModCore Version 30 of the Bab 5 Mod is available for download at http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm for both SEIV 1.49 and SEIV Gold.

However, three additional updates are also available bringing it up to Update33.

BUT no comment is made on whether these are compatible with both SEIV Gold and SEIV 1.49. Since the mod was originally for SEIV 1.49 there is some question as to the updates’ Gold compatibility.

Can anyone clarify this? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess best thing to do is install these and be sure:

Data files for B5 Gold:

1055128545.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055128545.zip)

[ March 07, 2004, 19:48: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Nomor]

Dear All

A recent trawl of the internet on B5 matters came up with the returned http://www.frostjedi.com/vex/
or Voltayre's Encyclopedia Xenobiologica.

I spent some time checking our own histories of races and could not find anything that showed our 1,49 races to be in error, yet.

This site my be of use to those working on the Ancients and other lesser known races.

Regarding recent topics; I can't help but feel that these issues may well have been what caused Val to implode and disappear from this forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Please be careful Timstone . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Who is Val and where is he now? Did we really ever know? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Back to lurkerland....

[grumbler]

Nomor,

Good to hear from you again. Great link, especially as I thought I had discovered most of the good ones long ago (and even more especially as this site links to even more that I hadn't yet found).

Agree that there is a mass of spagetti here to unravel, and that this may have driven Val to distraction. However, I think that we can think the project through logically to a conclusion.

Care is needed, but also boldness, and an understanding of the basic system we are trying to mod. I have learned a lot following Pathfinder's explorations into the AI, and I think that my conclusion is that the AI requirements simplify the problem rather than complicating it. Maybe that is what Val failed to see.

I will have more on this soon, once I finish my (recently resurrected due to inspiration by Timstone) look at how the AI really does design ships.

My bottom line is that the "Val" weapons system seems FAR more complicated than is needed by the system, and that we need to draw the distinction between weapons systems needed for a functioning, unique, and capable AI opponent for each race and the "chrome" systems that are of utility only to human players of that race.

More to follow.

[ March 08, 2004, 04:51: Message edited by: grumbler ]

[Fyron]

One thing that really needs to be done is to change the descriptions of all facilities, components, etc. that have really vague ability descriptions. There is never a good reason not to display the relevant number in-game.

[Timstone]

Well good to see discusion going again.
I've begun changing the general weapons according to my homemade Weapon Construction File.

I wholly support Grumblers asumption of taking small steps at a time and have a logical aproach to this wonderful mod.

As far as the facilities concerning, I've given all the facilities a clear description and together with Grumbler (some time ago) we come up with a good way for a starting planet. Even the AI picks it up. Hurray!

Grumbler: PM!

[grumbler]

I think it would probably be pretty easy to get a valid facilities system going, so long as we acknowledge that the needs (and abilities) of the AI have to be priority #1, so that we avoid a facilities setup where "being human" is a hige advantage.

Similarly, we need to design the weapons system from the "top down" IMO, and the starting place for that is a general description of what we would expect a ship of any given type (massive ship, capital ship, carrier, cruiser, destroyer, escort) to have in the way of weapons suites.

That is to say, for example, would we expect a capital ship to be armed with two or three instances of the race's most powerful weapons, or six to eight? Should the capital ship have intermediate weapons, or should it just be primary weapons plus PD weapons? Should it have fighters? How much of the "weapon space" should be devoted to fighters?

Once all of these questions are answered, we can then build an AI model of the capital ship, and determine what the size charactorists of the weapons that will go in it should be. We can duplicate for each ship type down the line. Only THEN do we need to actually start to assemble the weapons characteristics.

The reason why this is a superior model to the "ground up" approach is because it then makes the AI opponent design ships that are fundamentally as good as what the human player builds, instead of having these quirks where the AI has 10kt less space than needed to put in the optimal weapons, and rather than shorting something else (as a human would do) it builds using the second-best weapons.

Plus, building weapons is a lot easier if you know the parameters for size and whatnot ahead of time, and merely adjust power to reflect size.

Anyway, that is my theory. Discussion?

[Timstone]

I thought that Val had already solved the weapons thingy. I thought he already decided how a certain ship would be composed, so I naturaly took on the job to adjust the weapons. Nothing more nothing less. Along the way I discovered I wanted to give the whole system a overhaul. When I tried adjusting the weapons I saw that the whole components.txt was a mess, a true jungle, a nightmare. I decided I would make the next Version of The Mod modular. I wanted to include only a few races at first and later on more races.
So I already I had a pretty good idea how I wanted to see The Mod when it was done.
Because I'm lazy I took on the B5 Wars books as a firm basis for it all. Like I said before, why invent the wheel again? I hoped that most of the problems were already solved by Val (like the ship thingy Grumbler mentioned).
I never asked for assistance because I wanted to do everything myself, soon I realised I couldn't do that. I still didn't ask for help. First I wanted to show the people that read this thread what I had in mind and then I wanted to ask for help.
Slowly my enthusiasm ebbed away. Along came Grumbler. Infusing me with new figor for The Mod.
I know we are the two main characters behind 2.0 (for now), but I still have my vision. I'll explain it.

First release:
Main files in place. Huge amount of quadrants, huge amount of formations, well every add-on file for SE IV would be included. I want the B5 Mod 2.0 not entirely B5 orientated, make it accesable for a large public. Included are only a few races.
Second release:
Adding more races and minor game adjustments.
Third release:
Even more races.

Every race has acces to the General Weapons and can research his racial tech stuff. Ancients cannot colonize and cannot send troops (no troopships). Nomads are uncertain if they can be implemented.

I wanted to follow the original B5 Mod as much as possible. Why? It is goooood.

I really like your thoughts on the facilities, but as far as the weapons concerned. I think we can adjust the ships too. Don't adjust the weapons, but adjust the ships. If you have this relation, you can proceed to making the rest of the facilities and so on. But to save us A LOT of work, I think it is best to leave the main system alone for now and do our primary modifications first. Then we playtest and decided what must be done.
But on the other hand, your aproach makes MUCH MORE sense. I'm a engineer and my guts tell me your way is the way to go.

So lets do it your (Grumbler) way and my way. I finish the general weapons (every racial weapons following this batch will obey the same set of rules) and the facilities. Then we can asses what to change to the ships and the like. Agree? Comments? Demands?

[Timstone]

Grumbler: I just read your Mail to me. I'll get back to you.

[grumbler]

I think that there may be some misunderstanding of what I am talking about when I say I want to use a common "model" for a ship type. What i mean is that i think we should agree with, for instance, a capital ship should devote (say) 40% of its hull size to weapons, 40% to speed, and 20% to electronics, or whatever. Each race would have different weapons and systems, and so different ships, but the overall outline would remain similar, just as (say) all WWII battleships had between 8 and 10 main guns. No "race" had 20 medium guns on a battleship.

The reason I am so anxious to start with a workable model for the AI_D_C is because it is the hardest thing to make work, and require playtesting to ensue that it works properly. You can automate the process of weapons design somewhat, and a given weapon isn't much changed by being 10% lighter and 10% less powerful, but a 10% change in AI_D_C is huge. If you have seperate "customized" ship designs for each race, you are creating a design monster - the very monster that Val himself dispaired of slaying (remember how the AI designs were always causing RCEs until Path went back and scrubbed them to get them into working order?)

The Mod "as is" is good, but the AI still does not build ships that can compete with a human for design utility. Some of the ships it produces are hardly mobile, while others contain a strange assortment of weapons. Given the complexity of the problem, and the need to make sure the designs WORK before making sure they WORK WELL, I find the suboptimal AI_D_C files quite understandable.

But if you are going to build the ships around the weapons and not the weapons around the ships, you need a lot of people who know how to make AI_D_C work right, and a lot of playtesting time, because that's the only way to do it.

I know, because I have been trying for a year, and I am not there yet.

[Timstone]

Okay, now I understand.
If you've been trying for a year and you reached this conclusion, I won't interfere with it. Alright, let's build the weapons around the ships.
Tell me what I must do and I'll do it. The AI is the first thing we need to fix.
I understood it wrong because I thought the diversity was going to be eliminated and I don't want that. I want lots and lots of options and stuff to goof around with. But now you've told me this I see we must make the AI work first. Changing the weapons and such is a piece of cake compared to the AI (I remember the RCE's).

[Minotaur]

Hello to all B5 modders, I’ve been playing the Last update of the B5 mod and find it excellent. I’ve been trying to do my own modifications to the mod (with limited success) and I’m willing to offer any help I can to get Version 2.0 off and running. I’ve only just gotten started trying to change the mod so I’m not sure how much help I can be…but if you need someone to crunch some numbers or just get you guys some coffee…I’m your man.

I agree with both Timestone and Grumble…we need to get the AI running smoothly and then build off that. Once we have a solid base for how the AI will design and use its ships, then we can add as much complexity we want afterwards. There’s nothing worse than playing the mod for 50 turns and moving into an unexplored system only to find it full of escorts and colony ships that are obsolete as hell and can only move one space per turn.

[Minotaur]

sorry...meant to say timstone and grumbler...stupid illiteracy.

[TNZ]

So all this mod needs is new AI research files, AI design creation files and a more AI friendly facility file. It might be a good idea to concentrate initially on the races that have the most in common. I don’t think that the ships of any race need to be bigger then any other, just make the components better this way the math stays the same. I also think it would be better to make the components the way you want them to be. Its much easier to delete a component that doesn’t work then add new ones. The Last patch has made making good AI design creation files a lot easier. I have not played this mod so I don’t know how good or bad the AI files are. Would it be possible for someone to upload a txt only Version of this mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[pathfinder]

A thought or two from me based on my feeble attempts Last year:

The weapons are not optimal (as ya'll already know). Either the ship sizes are not the best or weapon mounts or sizes are not synched optimally. Then there is the question of damage and range on some of the weapons. I think the systematic approach Timstone and Grumbler will, in the end, make a much better MOD. I also agree with Timstone (hopefully B5 fanboys won't blow a gasket) in that the MOD should NOT be 100% "canon". DO keep as much of the "canon" stuff as you can.

Speaking of AIC MOD...take a look at how JLS has set the AI up in there. MIGHT be worth using his setup.

Edit: typos...argh

[ March 13, 2004, 21:36: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Hah, Da Path has returned! Good to see you again.

Okay, Grumbler and I have combined forces. We yet have to divide the workload. I think I'll be doing much of the weapons stuff and he'll dive headfirst into the AI stuff. We also have to make a workingscheme of some sort. Because we also ha a real life, we have to earn a living, so we can't be modding all the time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Untill we have decided on a firm basis and are confident we can give work to other, we will ask it in this wonderful thread.
I didn't mean disrespect to anyone when I said we must be confident to give work to others. It's just a little risk of having too many people working on a mod. That way the whole balance can come in danger. Just sit tight and wait for those exciting Messages from Grumbler or me.

It's good to read so much support and interest for this mod. Keep it up!

Edit: Typo's!! I'm sure there are more...

[ March 13, 2004, 17:36: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[pathfinder]

TNZ: These are the txt data files. Are these what you wanted? or each individual race AI files?

1055128545.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055128545.zip)

There is NOT a place to upload them here anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The AI research files (IMHO) aren't too bad but the AI designcreation files most definitely could use tweaking. More important are the "make-up" of the facilties and the components. So that the AI can make "intelligent" setups of its various ships/fighters, etc.

Examples: Why do the Shadows AI always place two living cpu's onboard ALL ships when there is a restriction to having only 1? Why does the AI around mid-game start shoving cargo pods into spaces instead of armor? or weapons?

Why does the AI substitute trading Posts for manufacturing faciltities?

[ March 13, 2004, 22:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[solops]

In my continuing quest for Bab5 for SEIV Gold :Where in this or any other thread can I pick up the Bab5 AI files (Gold compatible)?

[ March 13, 2004, 23:49: Message edited by: solops ]

[pathfinder]

Solops: Look in this thread:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3


scattered I know but I do not have the time to search and post the specific spots.

[grumbler]

Here is my proposal for the AI_Design_Creation standard. Note that the goal here is to get effective ships designs in a file that is easy to playtest. After we are sure the “stock” AI_D_C is working, specialized AI_D_Cs can be prepared or the races by simply modifying the stock A_D_C. The specialized AI_D_Cs will be needed for such things as stealth components.

In this post I will just talk about warships. Other ship types can be dealt with similarly if everyone likes this approach.

Warships are considered to belong to one of four different size categories, each with three subdivisions which determine the types of components installed. The four major categories are:
1. Escorts: Escort (150kt), Corvette (200kt), ****
2. Destroyers: Frigate *(300kt), Destroyer*(350kt) Heavy Destroyer*(400kt)
3. Cruisers: Light Cruiser*(500kt), Cruiser* (600kt), Heavy Cruiser* (700kt)
4. Capital Ships: Battlecruiser* (800kt), Battleship**(900kt), Heavy Battleship*(1000kt)
5. Massive Ships: ****, Dreadnought*(1200kt), Heavy Dreadnought (1400kt)
* renamed ship
** renamed ship, new size
**** no ship in this Category (as there would be no rational reason to design such)

Within each Category, the subdivisions are equipped as follows:
1. Lightest ship: main (and secondary) weapons only
2. “Standard ship” main (and secondary) weapons plus PDF
3. “Heavy Ship” main (and secondary) weapons, PDF, and more armor.

Each Category of ship (cruisers and above) will have its own weapons mount. Larger ships will have more effective weapons with a given tonnage allocated. Smaller ships will retain the current defensive bonuses. Each Category (cruisers and above) will require an additional crew space and life support. Each succeeding Category will have a larger reactor size and each reactor size will be enough to power 120% of the ships engines required for the Category’s largest ship (much as it is now, but with the reactors “rationalized” a bit). Larger ships will also have additional components like scanners and such.

Speeds:
Warships will have the same “standard speed” regardless of size. While it might seem kinda cool to have battleships, for instance, be slower than destroyers, the computer doesn’t pay much attention to speeds when it creates fleets, and different speeds for different sizes will result in AI fleets being slower than they need be. Also, ships with different speeds tend to result in worse fleet performance in strategic combat.

Effective ship speeds by engine tech (ignoring such things as Ship enhancement):
1. Fission drive: 4
2. Fusion drive: 6
3. Anti-matter drives: 9
4. Gravimetric: 12

My idea is that these speeds should be achievable using 40% of the hull size for any given ship. Scouts will "cheat" a bit by having no requirements for LS or CC due to small crew size for the hull.

Now, how is the “generic AI_D_C” gonna work? It is really pretty straightforward. Each ship will have 5 main weapons family choices (ships larger than destroyers having secondary weapons as well), and, where appropriate, 5 PD weapons family choices. These will be numbered as follows:

21001-21005 PD weapons
22001-22005 First through fifth main weapons for escorts Category
23001-23005 First through fifth main weapons for destroyers Category
24001-24005 First through fifth main weapons for cruisers Category
25001-25005 First through fifth main weapons for capital ships Category
26001-26005 First through fifth main weapons for Massive ships Category

Now, the key is that for, say, the Minbari, weapon 25001 might be a Neutron Laser, while for the EA it might be a Trans-Phased Plasma Cannon and the Shadows would have the Heavy Molecular Slicer Beam. So long as no race has more than one choice for 25001 (or whatever), this seems to work out in testing. Secondary weapons for the larger ships would logically just be the primary weapons from the destroyers Category, though we can add more families if this doesn’t make sense.

It is entirely possible that 24001 and 25001 (or 25001 and 26001) will end up being the same weapon in different mounts, in which case we might not need all the families listed above. Not having the B5 wars books, I am unsure as to how much differentiation they have between the types of ships.

I would expect the xx004 and xx005 to be the general weapons. Thus early designs will all tend to look the same (unless we want to do away with general weapons entirely?)

Any thought on this approach? It is more “generic” than we will probably want to end up with, but at least it will get us started and will allow us to chase down the AI gremlins a bit faster.

[pathfinder]

Grumbler: Looks like a good plan...I especially like the idea of one main weapon type. This will simply things a lot and keep the AI from choking on having too many weapon choices. One comment: Keep generic or general weapons as not all the races have race-specific weapons. Unless this MOD is to only have the "primary" series races.

[ March 14, 2004, 22:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[TNZ]

I like your ideas for standardizing the making of the AI design creation files. I would, however, suggest that the ship sizes be a 100kt bigger so that the smaller ships are easier to design for the AI. It should be possible to get a ship’s engines to take up 40% of its hull size by using mounts for the engines. e.g. a escort ship(250kt)would have four engines with a tonnage space taken of 25kt each, a heavy dreadnought ship(1500kt)would have four engines with a tonnage space taken of 150kt each. It is also possible to increase the cost of the engines and their supply usage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[TNZ]

I think what Grumbler, is saying is that each race will have up to five main weapons and five secondary weapons just, the way the AI likes it. Because all races use racial area technology for their weapon technologies, you can use the same weapon family numbers in your AI design creation files.

Might it not be a good idea to use weapon mounts to achieve the Category changes of the weapons?

22001-22005 First through fifth main weapons for escorts Category
23001-23005 First through fifth main weapons for destroyers Category
24001-24005 First through fifth main weapons for cruisers Category
25001-25005 First through fifth main weapons for capital ships Category
26001-26005 First through fifth main weapons for Massive ships Category

[Timstone]

Grumbler: Could you send me some info about your engine mod? You wanted to implement it into the mod. Well, let me have a look at it. You've made me curious.

About weapon mounts:
Don't use them yet, they confuse the AI. More thing that could go wrong. Include them as eyecandy for the human players.

[ March 15, 2004, 09:39: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[Timstone]

Just testing my new sig.

1st edit: Not quite.

2nd edit: Maybe this?

3rd edit: Getting tired of this!

4th edit: Sigh...

5th edit: Keep your fingers crossed!

6th edit: getting closer.

7th edit: Failed... again.

[ March 15, 2004, 13:53: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[grumbler]

TNZ, have you actually gotten the system to use mounts for engines? I have never been able to pull that off. If you have, tell me how you did it.

The problem with using the mounts to differentiate between weapons (something I propose a year ago) is that in this game system the larger weapons tend to be slower-firing as well as longer-ranged and higher-damaging. Mounts do away with that. You want to use mounts to make satellites better with a given weapon, for instance, but since "we ain't afeered of large component files" they aren't needed for ships.

Tim, I will shoot you a copy of the engines mod. I need to update them for the Ancients a bit, as I have left the Ancients stictly alone up to this point.

[grumbler]

Anyone have any strong feelings about the x50kt hulls? If we got rid of them we could make the QNP ration 1 per 100 tons and big ships (over 1200kt) won't be limited by the 256 engine limit... we could go out to 2500 tons and still have speed-12 ships (with some movement bonus effects, of course).

[TNZ]

Try looking in this topic newton propulsion system idea for STM.
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=011058

Here is a small example of what this mount might look like if used in the B5M.

All engine components would be 500kt without the mount being used. Also, the AI would be told to use only four engines.

Long Name := Engine Installation1
Short Name := Engine Installation
Description := Installation mount for a ship engines.
Code := E+
Cost Percent := 100
Tonnage Percent := 4
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 100
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 200
Vehicle Size Maximum := 200
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Comp Family Requirement := 11400,11401,11402,11403
Vehicle Type := Ship

Long Name := Engine Installation2
Short Name := Engine Installation
Description := Installation mount for a ship engines.
Code := E+
Cost Percent := 100
Tonnage Percent := 5
Tonnage Structure Percent := 100
Damage Percent := 100
Supply Percent := 100
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 250
Vehicle Size Maximum := 250
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Comp Family Requirement := 11400,11401,11402,11403
Vehicle Type := Ship

[ March 16, 2004, 04:43: Message edited by: TNZ ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Why is it you want mount based QNP anyways?

Just use the spaces per one entry in the ship designs (put the engines first), and presto, you're set.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

movement rating based QNP doesn't work past 255.

[pathfinder]

What the little mousie said: trust me....the ship engine bit caused untold problems due to setup in one of the data files until I messed with them. As is they at least work. Otherwise too many RCE's after certain size ships were researched (also there was something in the engine Ratings that coupled with sship size caused and out of bounds error in the game engine). Gold solved a good bit of this also.

[TNZ]

Well, my only reason for suggesting the use of a mount based QNP system for the B5M is that I had the silly idea that we might actually want a propulsion system that the AI can use to perfection instead of one it barely tolerate.

[Timstone]

Okay, just call me stupid, but 50% of this conversation eludes me. But that's alright. Please continue it, it can only be good for The Mod.

How do you all feel if we implement the FQM in The Mod? I also wanted to use the Image Mod and the Formations Mod. Objections anyone?

[Fyron]

Well, if the new Version of the mod is going to be Gold, just assign an AI Ability Tag to each class of engine, and call for those instead of the movement points. No more need to worry about how the AI will design this ship with a different level of propulsion tech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Adding USM to the mod would be a great idea.

[TNZ]

I noticed that in the Version of the mod I have the AI would stop adding engines to its AI design creation at a certain point. I think I found the problem. It was the Jump Gate components. When I deleted them the AI started adding engines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[TNZ]

I think is would be a good idea to standardize the sizes of the components. Also I would suggest rounding the sizes of the components to the nearest 5kt.

[Timstone]

Rounding up or rounding down all the weights to the nearest 5 kT isn't a bad idea, but I won't do that for the weapons. They are just a bit too standard then. And diversity is one of the things we want, so no rounding up or down for the weapons.'But for components isn't it a problem. Let's hear/read what Grumbler has to say about it.

[Timstone]

Could someone do something for me? I need 5 reactor pics to be redone. There are 4 series of 5 reactor pics (example: Comp_673.bmp, Comp_674.bmp, Comp_675.bmp, Comp_676.bmp and Comp_677.bmp). I want those 5 redone. All the yellow spots need to be red. The kind of red you see in Hyperspace.
In the B5 War Books I read quite a bit about the Hyperspace Taps. I decided to inmplement these too.
Could anyone do this please?

[grumbler]

TNZ, I am missing something here. What keeps the ignorant player from using the wrong mount for his engines? I agree that this idea seems a pretty good one for the AI (which is the hardest bit) and simplifies the AI_D_C (especially using the abilities tag as IF noted).

It may even be better than my 40kt engine mod (devised because I HATE calculating how much supply 24 5 kt fusion engines would use to move 6 sectors! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) as it is infinately more flexible and doesn't get into the rounding problem of the x50kt hull sizes. However, I will have to think through the human player issue to satisfy myself that it is a non-issue.

On the rounding of components, I agree, but would point out that this is already the case except for a few races like the Gaim who get a bit more armor right now because their CC and LS components are 8 vice 10 in size (and maybe their bridge is, too). Weapons rounding could be done (and power simply improved) but there seems little utility to it from either the AI standpoint or the human standpoint, as you always end up filling the excess space with armor.

Lots of good thinking here, and I am glad to see some interest revive in the mod. My school is on spring break starting tomorrow, and I hope to finish the ship requirements analysis and look at the engine mount idea in the next coupla days. That will allow tim some time over the weekend to look at how the weapons might be modelled, and we can start production on the AI_D_C and components for maybe the five "major B5 races" (including the LNAW but not the Vorlons).

Is everyone happy with the basic thrust of the weapons paths for each of the major races? If not, now is the time to say so!

[Suicide Junkie]

Don't round off the armor sizes, either. They're small and the details matter a lot.

[TNZ]

The size standardization of weapons components that have the same weapon family number and of components that have the same family number is quite important for effective AI and player ship upgrading. Just try designing an Earth Alliance ship with level one heavy laser/pulse arrays. Now try upgrading your design. But how, or if, you standardize your components is up to you.

Its impossible with this system to use the wrong mount for your engines; there is only one mount available to players. Have a look at this topic: http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=011058
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[TNZ]

I was looking at the Earth Alliance’s Anti-Missile Missile and RF Anti-Missile Missile components and I had this idea:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=011274

This way we can have the same number of weapon components, with a way less complicated ship designing window.

[Atrocities]

Whatever happened to VAL?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Atrocities:
Whatever happened to VAL? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He just dropped off scene around Thanksgiving 2002.

[Timstone]

After thanksgiving 2002 I got one Last message from Val. He said he had planned a vacation. After his vacation he would continue work on The Mod at a more regular basis. At that rate he expected to finish The Mod at the end of 2003.
Too bed we haven't heard of him since. I wonder how he sees the whole continuation of The Mod?

Speaking of missing persons. Where did Hadrian Aventine go?! Has anyone heard something of him lately?

Edit: I vote against the LNAW, because they would just be a compilation of the races that make up the LNAW. They would be a pain in the butt to make and to fight against (too many advantages).

I'm almost done with the way how the new weapons will look in 2.0. The Last thing I must do is coming up with rules for the targets and the vehicles the weapons can target/be mounted on. This little problem should be finished before the end of this weekend. If I can't compile it clear enough I'll keep the files on my computer and distribute them when they are nicely compiled and easy to use.

Edit2: How about the reactor pics I asked about? Could anyone do this for me please?

[ March 18, 2004, 11:17: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[grumbler]

TNZ, I just realized that I still had a very old CompEnhancement.txt that lacked mention of "Vehicle Size Maximum (Optional)." With max size, of course, the problem goes away. Sorry for the confusion. I guess I need to check all my files to ensure they reflect the latest Version (there have been so many partial changes).

Given that my concerns were based on faulty data, this seems like the way to go. I will experiment with this over the next day or so, and make sure that it behaves as expected with minimal change to AI_D_C.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by TNZ:
I was looking at the Earth Alliance’s Anti-Missile Missile and RF Anti-Missile Missile components and I had this idea:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=011274

This way we can have the same number of weapon components, with a way less complicated ship designing window. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Has anyone experimented with short-ranged anti-seeker seekers? They seem to me to be a contradiction in terms, because they won't launch until the targeted seeker comes within range, and yet won't move until ater the targeted seeker moves again (i.e. until the targeted seeker has hit the ship, if the targeted seeker has a speed greater than the anti-seeker-seeker's max range).

I can see the desire to simplify the design screen, but won't AMM 5 replace RFAMM 4 in the design window when you have both available? That would mean having to turn of "show only latest" todesign a ship with RFAMM 4, which is superior to AMM 5.

In any case, as I say, I am dubious of the utility of anti-seeker-seekers (and no jokes about us pulling our heads out of our ASSes, either! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) Better to just drop the concept, IMO. That will simpify design considerably.

Note that I am also not convinced that the whole RF missile concept isn't too unbalancing. The EA seems to me to have way too many uberweapons.

[edit: typos]

[ March 18, 2004, 15:48: Message edited by: grumbler ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Quick Fix:

ECM and Combat Sensors:
These were altered from my original specifications without my knowledge. While it was probably done with good intentions, the original specs were quite intentional.

All three types of ECM components and CS components should be 10kt in size. NOT 10kt / 5kt / 2-3kt
The point is to have diminishing returns, and by scaling the extra components down, they all have the same effect/kt ratio at equivalent tech levels.

[TNZ]

Grumbler, I had the same concern about short-ranged anti-seeker seekers. However, on testing them in combat I found they worked just like any other point-defense weapon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re your question about AMM 5 replacing RFAMM 4 in the design window when you have both available? Take a closer look at the technology requirements of the AMM and RFAMM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Name := Anti-Missile Missile I
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Ballistic Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Earth Alliance Heavy Weapons
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Point-Defense Weapons
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1

Name := RF Anti-Missile Missile II
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := EA Advanced Ballistic Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Earth Alliance Heavy Weapons
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := Point-Defense Weapons
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1

[TNZ]

Here is an idea I had for using the vehicle size file’s “Requirement Min Life Support”. It might be of some use to the B5M. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

How To Make Engineering Components.

1. Make engineering component for ships.

2. Make engineering component for bases.

3. Add the two engineering components to the data file. Replace life support with the ship engineering component and replaces auxiliary control with the base engineering component.

4. Delete master computer component.

5. Set life support requirement in vehicle size data file to 1.

The AI will use the engineering component to fill its requirement for life support. It is possible to add more abilities to the component but only if the abilities are not targeted by the design creation files. New abilities could be supply storage and shield regeneration.

Ship and Base Engineering Component Provided.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1058395439.txt

[ March 19, 2004, 02:17: Message edited by: TNZ ]

[Suicide Junkie]

Why not just use the TAG abilities, and give the AI a "must have" ability of that.

[TNZ]

I think the ECM and Combat Sensors components need a bit more than a quick fix, more like a major overhaul, that is, if you want truly AI compliant ECM and Combat Sensors components. In my opinion, using AI Tags to get the AI to use the current ECM and Combat Sensors components would be a waste of time and AI tags. How about one component family with the “Combat To Hit Defense Plus” ability and one component family with the “Combat To Hit Offense Plus ability”.

[TNZ]

Grumbler and Timstone, I thought the mod could do with a more robust leaking armor system, so I made one. It seems to work well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Atrocities:
Whatever happened to VAL? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He just dropped off scene around Thanksgiving 2002. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is unfortuneate. I wonder if he is still, well you know, alive?

Its happened before on other forums, long time hard core members just stop posting and eventually it was discovered that they are no longer alive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

One can't help but wonder if Val is still around or not.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by TNZ:
Grumbler and Timstone, I thought the mod could do with a more robust leaking armor system, so I made one. It seems to work well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... the current system works extremely well. It is quite robust... What is wrong with it in your opinion?

Originally posted by TNZ:
I think the ECM and Combat Sensors components need a bit more than a quick fix, more like a major overhaul, that is, if you want truly AI compliant ECM and Combat Sensors components. In my opinion, using AI Tags to get the AI to use the current ECM and Combat Sensors components would be a waste of time and AI tags. How about one component family with the “Combat To Hit Defense Plus” ability and one component family with the “Combat To Hit Offense Plus ability”. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are a large number of abilities that can be used as AI tags. They are in no short supply. The current CS/ECM system (well the intended one, anyways) will work quite nicely, even with AI use.

[ March 20, 2004, 04:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[TNZ]

I noticed that in the Version of the mod I have the AI would stop adding engines to its AI design creation at a certain point. I think I found the problem. It was the Jump Gate components. When I deleted them the AI started adding engines. I think that the Jump Gate component’s 50 “Standard Ship Movement” point ability is causing the AI problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

As said in the other thread... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif AI tags will get around the jump gate issue nicely.

[Suicide Junkie]

Originally posted by TNZ:
How about one component family with the “Combat To Hit Defense Plus” ability and one component family with the “Combat To Hit Offense Plus ability”. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would leave nothing but stock.

The point of having three families is that you can boost your ECM/CS just a bit more by devoting a bunch of extra space to it.

Some ships might just go with the basic component, since they need the hull space for other things...
If you want the very pinnacle of ECM or CS power, though, you have to pay for it with extra space on your ship.

[Fyron]

I concur. Please leave the CS/ECM alone, other than to make them all 10 kT...

[TNZ]

Here is my proposal for the ECM/CS Components:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=011274

[Fyron]

That completely destroys the current system.

[pathfinder]

Anyone know why shipboard telepath has sensor level as an ability?

[Fyron]

So that it can detect cloaked shadow vessels. Not that there is a shadow cloaking device... :-\

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So that it can detect cloaked shadow vessels. Not that there is a shadow cloaking device... :-\ <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, reason I am asking is because of that ability, Shadows ships use it...stoopid Shadows.....EA/IA telepaths on their ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Another thing that puzzles me is why the Shadows do not use their own tech weapons but the Vorlons do. Their designcreation files are not that much different.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ March 21, 2004, 17:28: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Fyron]

Do their weapon family numbers overlap with some other weapons?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Do their weapon family numbers overlap with some other weapons? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope, they don't share weapons family numbers with the lasers...

Biggest difference that I can find is the weight/mass of the Shadows weapons. Gonna change those to be more in line with the lasers and see what happens.

Well, mass change didn't work either. Gonna change damage from skips armor to normal and see...

[ March 21, 2004, 18:43: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Intimidator]

Bab 5 mod is only for 1.49 isn't it ??

If so is someone planning/doing it for Gold ??

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Intimidator:
Bab 5 mod is only for 1.49 isn't it ??

If so is someone planning/doing it for Gold ?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's been Gold since January 2003. Just buggy as heck....though Gold is much more stable that 1.49...

[Intimidator]

where can I find it, searched for it..... but found always only the 1.49 Version

[Atrocities]

The mod does need to be updated and I believe that there are a few people working on it. I hope anyways.

[Ragnarok-X]

yeah, im waiting for this mod since about 2 years, honestly.
Some month ago i downloaded something, but it seemed to me that got the wrong things, because many files were missing. I hope that someday i can download a file archive which contains everything needed to play ... i guess its far away though.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Intimidator:
where can I find it, searched for it..... but found always only the 1.49 Version <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think maybe here is a start:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3

[pathfinder]

Be doggoned if I can figure out why the Shadows don't pick-up their race-specific weapons and the Vorlon do. I even have the Vorlons starting with their weapons (light electro cannon) but nooooo, not the Shadows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

and the AI rarely adds combat sensors of any level, ECM it does add but no combat sensors...

[ March 21, 2004, 22:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[TNZ]

Pathfinder, I found this post you made on page 1 of the Space Empires IV: AI Races/Ship Sets thread. Are the uploaded files in it the most up- to- date Version of the B5M?

Latest Version of the B5 MOD Gold.

B5 Gold "Main" files:

1055690978.zip

B5 Mod Race AI:

1055720287.zip

[ June 16, 2003, 00:39: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Imperator Fyron, I based my opinion about the mod needing a more robust leaking armor system on the article in the SEIV Modding 101 on leaking armor. The article suggested to me that the armor in the B5M had too few hit points.

[ March 22, 2004, 00:32: Message edited by: TNZ ]

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by TNZ:
Pathfinder, I found this post you made on page 1 of the Space Empires IV: AI Races/Ship Sets thread. Are the uploaded files in it the most up- to- date Version of the B5M?

Latest Version of the B5 MOD Gold.

B5 Gold "Main" files:

1. 1055690978.zip

B5 Mod Race AI:

1. 1055720287.zip

[ June 16, 2003, 00:39: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Imperator Fyron, I based my opinion about the mod needing a more robust leaking armor system on the article in the SEIV Modding 101 on leaking armor. The article suggested to me that the armor in the B5M had too few hit points. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe it is TNZ. Last updates I did were around June 2003. Timstone and Grumbler are working on a much re-done Version (I guess called B5 Version 2)

[Suicide Junkie]

When I was making the armor, I was setting it up with weapons that had close-to-stock damage ratios in mind.

I'm not sure about the regular races, but the shadow weapons I'm using in the PBW game have freaking huge damage per kt per turn.
Not that its really a bad thing, though. Everybody's weapons tend to really gut enemy ships when they hit on the show.

My battlecrabs (only moderate armor) were taking three or four direct hits from vorlon weaponry lately.
They can take quite a bit from regular races AFAIK from the simulator.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
When I was making the armor, I was setting it up with weapons that had close-to-stock damage ratios in mind.

I'm not sure about the regular races, but the shadow weapons I'm using in the PBW game have freaking huge damage per kt per turn.
Not that its really a bad thing, though. Everybody's weapons tend to really gut enemy ships when they hit on the show.

My battlecrabs (only moderate armor) were taking three or four direct hits from vorlon weaponry lately.
They can take quite a bit from regular races AFAIK from the simulator. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, now if I could just get the blighters (Shadows AI) to actually use their own weapons....

The Shadow weapons are awesome, couple them with advanced sensors...*shudder*...

Getting the Vorlons to use ECM and Ancient Scanners, now for combat sensors.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 22, 2004, 02:26: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[pathfinder]

Anyone else having the AI Shadows not using their own weapons after they are available?

[Ragnarok-X]

Is there any way i could get a newer Version (newer than the Mid 2003 released one) ? ^_^

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Is there any way i could get a newer Version (newer than the Mid 2003 released one) ? ^_^ <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">None available atm. You'll have to wait for Timestone to finish his Version.

[pathfinder]

Would resource cost be a factor in the AI NOT using its racial weapons?

[Fyron]

No. Resource cost is never a factor in the AI designing ships.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
No. Resource cost is never a factor in the AI designing ships. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I just found that out ....

just grasping at straws as to why the Shadows refusing to use their weapons. This all started after a HDD crash & burn. I now use win xp (used 98se before)....


Looks like the Shadows are, for some reason, acting like a neutral race??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ March 23, 2004, 01:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Timstone]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Is there any way i could get a newer Version (newer than the Mid 2003 released one) ? ^_^ <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">None available atm. You'll have to wait for Timestone to finish his Version. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hahaha.. my Version. Hmm... hey don't forget Grumbler. And of course yourself. All the thing we are doing right now are based on your work too. Give yourself a bit credit. You deserve it.

Anyways, The Mod is progressing nicely. Well, the weapons anyway. Me and Grumbler really must talk more to eachother. Yes, I'll send him a message. Oh sorry about the absence of mind Last weekend. I had to take some time from The Mod and spend it with my GF. Sigh... it's a dirty job, but it better be me doing it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by pathfinder:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
Is there any way i could get a newer Version (newer than the Mid 2003 released one) ? ^_^ <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">None available atm. You'll have to wait for Timestone to finish his Version. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is the Last revisions I did:

Latest Version of the B5 MOD Gold.

B5 Gold "Main" files:

1055690978.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055690978.zip)

B5 Mod Race AI:

1055720287.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055720287.zip)

[TNZ]

I have noticed that some of the component images the B5M uses are not in the image mod’s component packv22. I had a look at the component pack and it looks like space was saved for them, but the images were never submitted.

The images that the B5M uses but the image mod does not have are: 549, 550, 594, 595, 596, 597, 598, 767. I think that is all of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

Would you guys mind moving component 767 to slot 766? SJ has added another component to slot 767 in one of the previous Image Mod packs...

[Timstone]

Not at all, good enough for me.
As long as it work heh...

[Timstone]

Anyone seen of heard from Grumbler lately? I send him a mail, but no answer so far.

Oh goodie, goodie a new rank! Yehaa!

[ March 24, 2004, 11:41: Message edited by: Timstone ]

[grumbler]

I'm back in town now (and I thought I had a voice in how I was going to spend my spring break!)

I am getting together the list of how the weapons ought to look, from a tonnage perspective. I will have that to Timstone today, and then we can move on.

[Timstone]

WHAT vacation?! NOT in our time that will be!
Go spend vacation when you're dead!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good to have you back again.
I've made progres with the Ancients (not the Vorlons and the Shadows, just the other eight). I've given them weapons. So they can blow you all out of the sky. They are VERY powerfull. I think they need to have very expensive ships or high maintenance costs. Any thoughts?

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by Timstone:
WHAT vacation?! NOT in our time that will be!
Go spend vacation when you're dead!
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good to have you back again.
I've made progres with the Ancients (not the Vorlons and the Shadows, just the other eight). I've given them weapons. So they can blow you all out of the sky. They are VERY powerfull. I think they need to have very expensive ships or high maintenance costs. Any thoughts? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">High Maintenance costs....just opinion not based on much.


BTW been piddling around with the Version I quit on Last year. Mainly just so I can get the AI do do a reasonable job with designing the ships for a full tech game.

[ March 25, 2004, 22:22: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Suicide Junkie]

The ancients should have nasty fleets, seeing as they are at war with each other.

What if the ancient maintenance reducing components were simply made to require an "RP" racial trait?

[Timstone]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The ancients should have nasty fleets, seeing as they are at war with each other.

What if the ancient maintenance reducing components were simply made to require an "RP" racial trait? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">RP racial trait? What do you mean?

The Ancients are way overpowered now. They have far supperior weaponpower (as should be), but they also have the same ships the other races have. Combine the two and you have an adversary you really can't get into the grave, not even with a good ally. Because they have no transports, no colonising ability they are slow starters, but when their warmachine gains momentum they are unstoppable. One of their weapons does 360 damage every 2 turns. That's a hell lot of power.
You know what. I'll leave them as they are now (no special ships) and when the first release comes we shall see how they behave.
First the AI thingies Grumbler is working on. In the meanwhile I'll continue building weapons.
Yeah, I'm Weaponmaster Jha'Dur (well, the male counterpart).

[pathfinder]

Well, finally getting the Vorlons and Shadows to at least design some decent ships. Can't seem to get them to design popluation transports but other than that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Did any other race besides the EA (Minbari?) have shipboard telepaths?

[ March 27, 2004, 14:10: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[Suicide Junkie]

An RP racial trait.
Go into racialtraits.txt, and add "Roleplaying".
Make the ancient maintenance reduction require that racial tech. (Plus any other appropriate items)

So, if you're playing a free for all, you don't take the RP trait, and it works out to be about balanced.

If you're in a Roleplaying game, you can take the trait, and have the ancient uberpower races we all know and love.

[grumbler]

Okay, Tim, email en route. The pefect weather here finally broke, and so I have an excuse to stay indoors!

As for the ancients, maybe I am misunderstanding something here, but I thought the ancients were just supposed to fight one another (i.e be a part of the "ancient age" mod). Trying to mix ancients with youngers is a recipe for trouble in game balance, IMO, with the obvious exceptions of the Vorlons and Shadows, whose impact can be limited by their demeanor and happiness type (as well as the fact that they are being played by the AI, which isn't very aggressive). Having a bunch of ancient races strewn around the galaxy seems to me to be taking away, not adding to, the game.

That's just my opinion. In any case, I think it best to try to get the main races balanced out first, before worrying about how to balance the youngers with the ancients.

[Timstone]

SJ: That RP trait is going to have to wait. untill later. First Grumbler and I need to solve some issues. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Grumbler: E-mails finaly read and response is underway.

[grumbler]

Maybe someone can help me to get the AI to design the ships properly in this mod. I am starting simple, with a 100kt scout and a very simple set of files, so as to test the engine components mod. The contents of the files are all listed below. The game was set with max tech to start with, so racial traits are not an issue.

The goal is to have the AI build a ship with a military crew (0kt), bridge (10kt), a light reactor (10 kt), four engines that use the engine mount enhancement (40kt), and then fill the rest with a Medium BLast Cannon X (17kt) and 23 Light Armor Class 6F (23 kt).

The design instead has no crew designation, a bridge (10 kt), then four engines that use the engine mount enhancement (40kt), a light reactor (10 kt), then the Medium BLast Cannon X (17kt), and then two more engines (20 kt) and no armor. When the design is opened for editing, it warns that the design cannot be made because there are only four engines allowed.

So, what gives? Is anyone familiar enough with the AI_D_C to say what is happening here? It's driving me crazy (and the engine mod SOUNDED so cool!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Sorry about the difficult formatting.

This is the only ship available in AI_D_C.txt

Name := Scout
Design Type := Attack Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Optimal Firing Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 95
Size Maximum Tonnage := 140
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Solar Resource Generation - Minerals
Minimum Speed := 4
Desired Speed := 4
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 25001
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 25002
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 25003
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 25004
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 25005
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 25001
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 25002
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 25003
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 25004
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 25005
Shields Spaces Per One := 150
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 100
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 9
Misc Ability 1 Name := Standard Ship Movement
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 25
Misc Ability 2 Name := Sensor Level
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 3 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 4 Name := Long Range Scanner
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 5 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 6 Name := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 7 Name := Scanner Jammer
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 8 Name := Cloak Level
Misc Ability 8 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 9 Name := Solar Resource Generation - Minerals
Misc Ability 9 Spaces Per One := 100

These are the only components available in the components.txt:

Name := Military Ship
Description := Ship has a military crew and funding.
Pic Num := 50
Tonnage Space Taken := 0
Tonnage Structure := 2
Cost Minerals := 0
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Vehicle Class
Family := 11083
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := B5 Standard Race
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 4
Ability 1 Type := Modified Maintenance Cost
Ability 1 Descr := Military ships pay full maintenance and fight without penalties
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Combat To Hit Offense Minus
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Minus
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Ability 4 Type := Combat Modifier - System
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 0
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Bridge
Description := The main control center of a starship.
Pic Num := 1
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 10
Cost Minerals := 500
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Vehicle Control
Family := 2
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := B5 Standard Race
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Ship Bridge
Ability 1 Descr := Contains a ship bridge.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Light Fission Reactor
Description :=
Pic Num := 674
Tonnage Space Taken := 10
Tonnage Structure := 10
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 300
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Supply
Family := 11450
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Fission Utilization
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Solar Supply Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 2500 supplies for each star in a system per turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 2500
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Supply Storage
Ability 2 Descr := Stores 2500 units of supplies.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2500
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Solar Resource Generation - Minerals
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Fusion Engine I
Description := Fusion Engine for sublight travel.
Pic Num := 703
Tonnage Space Taken := 500
Tonnage Structure := 15000
Cost Minerals := 15000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 1500
Vehicle Type := Ship
Supply Amount Used := 1000
Restrictions := None
General Group := Engines
Family := 11400
Roman Numeral := 6
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Fusion Utilization
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Tech Area Req 3 := 0
Tech Level Req 3 := 0
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Standard Ship Movement
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 6 standard thrust.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 6
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Medium BLast Cannon X
Description := The MBC is much like the light Version, but is more powerful and has a much higher damage yield.
Pic Num := 530
Tonnage Space Taken := 17
Tonnage Structure := 23
Cost Minerals := 46
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 1
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 3
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 12509
Roman Numeral := 10
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Matter Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 10
Tech Area Req 2 := Belt Alliance Medium Weapons
Tech Level Req 2 := 4
Number of Abilities := 0
Ability 1 Type := 0
Ability 1 Descr := 0
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := 0
Ability 2 Descr := 0
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 78 76 75 73 71 69 68 66 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 2
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 149
Weapon Speed := 0
Weapon Modifier := 9
Weapon Sound := Mattergun2.wav
Weapon Family := 25003

Name := Light Armor Class 6F
Description := A low density, high strength composite material best for protecting delicate components.
Pic Num := 723
Tonnage Space Taken := 1
Tonnage Structure := 15
Cost Minerals := 30
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := All
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Armor
Family := 5101
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Inert Armor Physics
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Tech Area Req 2 := Inert Armor Manufacturing
Tech Level Req 2 := 6
Tech Area Req 3 := Inert Armor Engineering
Tech Level Req 3 := 1
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := None

This is the vehicles.txt file:

Name := Scout
Short Name := Scout
Description := Scout ship designed for extra-small crews
Code := SC
Primary Bitmap Name := Scout
Alternate Bitmap Name := Escort
Vehicle Type := Ship
Tonnage := 100
Cost Minerals := 200
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Engines Per Move := 4
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := B5 Standard Race
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 3
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Ability 1 Descr := Small profile makes ship 50% harder to hit in combat.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 50
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Ship Life Support
Ability 2 Descr := Contains life support.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Ability 3 Type := Ship Crew Quarters
Ability 3 Descr := Contains Crew Quarters
Ability 3 Val 1 := 0
Ability 3 Val 2 := 0
Requirement Must Have Bridge := True
Requirement Can Have Aux Con := True
Requirement Min Life Support := 0
Requirement Min Crew Quarters := 0
Requirement Uses Engines := True
Requirement Max Engines := 4
Requirement Pct Fighter Bays := 0
Requirement Pct Colony Mods := 0
Requirement Pct Cargo := 0

This is the ComponentEnhancement.txt file:

Long Name := Engine Mount1
Short Name := Engine Installation
Description := Installation mount for a ship engines.
Code := E+
Cost Percent := 2
Tonnage Percent := 2
Tonnage Structure Percent := 2
Damage Percent := 2
Supply Percent := 2
Range Modifier := 0
Weapon To Hit Modifier := 0
Vehicle Size Minimum := 99
Vehicle Size Maximum := 101
Weapon Type Requirement := None
Comp Family Requirement := 11400,11401,11402,11403
Vehicle Type := Ship

[Fyron]

The game was set with max tech to start with, so racial traits are not an issue. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes they are. Even on max tech, you can not have technologies that require a racial trait to be researched.

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Yes they are. Even on max tech, you can not have technologies that require a racial trait to be researched. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, the Narn (and the Minbari and the Centauri, all my test races) happily used the Belt Alliance weapon!

[TNZ]

[ March 29, 2004, 23:07: Message edited by: TNZ ]

[Fyron]

With engines, it is completely unnecessary to use standard movement as a misc ability. You want to set the desired speeds with "Minimum Speed" and "Desired Speed". The AI can use QNP engines just fine to get the entered values, after engines per move.

[PvK]

Does speed really get read by the AI as "number of engines", then? That sounds familiar, actually.

PvK

[Fyron]

Actually... on second thought, seems I misinterpreted those lines. They are indeed just a "number of engines to add" setting, and do not take engines per move of the ship hull into account.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by grumbler:
Thanks, guys, I got at least part of the problem: "Num Misc Abilities" is actually the number of ADDITIONAL abilities. Thus, the AI was adding engines because it put in four per the speed and then filled the remaining spaces with engines as Misc abilities. And yes, "speed" in this case is purely the number of engines. But with the engine mounts, this is moot.

Which also solves Path's Shadow Living CPU problem as well: the AI adds a LCPU as the required bridge component and then again as the misc ability "Master Computer" (I tested it, Path, and the Shadows use only one LCPU if you delete the Misc ability "Master Computer").

However, this doesn't resolve the issue of the AI not using armor. I read long ago in one of the threads that an "Armor Spaces Per One" setting of zero causes the AI to fill in all spaces with armor after completing its other requirments. Is this not true? I have tried adding armor as a misc ability and the AI will leave empty spaces before it will install armor. This kinda makes the great armor system of the game kinda redundent.

Anyone have any ideas?

Also, IF wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes they are. Even on max tech, you can not have technologies that require a racial trait to be researched. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That isn't true in this mod for weapons tech - Max Tech gives everyone all the racial light weapons, medium, etc, but IS true for other stuff (like the LCPUs). Not sure where the weapons discrepancy crept in, but you are right and I shouldn't have doubted it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ahhhh.....take out the Master computer? Hmmmmmm.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

UPDATE: WHEEEEE! YEEESSSS! Gone are double LCPU!

Thankee Grumbler!


Another couple of headscratchers: 1-Are population transport design/build associated with colonizing (Ancients not allowed to colonize)? Ancients (Shadows/Vorlons) are not designing/building population transports.

2-What would I have to do to get the AI to actually design/build repair ships? Put a call in the construction vehicles file?

[ March 28, 2004, 15:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[grumbler]

Okay, I have a "stock" AI_D_C that seems to work for all the normal races (haven't tried with Ancients yet, and won't until we get the normals at least done enough to play with). Still no armor, though. I don't want to add ability tags to armor unless I have to, because that will make the AI_D_C even more complex (we will be talking about a dozen or more special abilities per ship type). However, if that's what I gotta do...

I have left max engines at eight for all ship sizes so the human (or an AI that has some space left over) can add engines to create a slightly faster ship. Colony ships are still gonna be limited by the size of their colony modules to half the normal ship speed, though, unless anyone wants to argue that they shouldn't be!

Path, one of the things I had to do to AI_D_C to get decent transports, sat layers, etc was limit the hull ranges for the auxilliary type ships. In fact, what I am going to do is change the transport types to "off size" x50 ships to make the AI stop using warship hulls for transports. Merchant hull as half as expensive the way I have things set up, and require only half the crews of a warship. Right now, I don't see any call for a repair ship in the AI_C_V files, and I am not sure the AI would know how to use them. Any ideas on this? It would be cool if it does use them, but in games where I have built them to test the idea, they just sit on the homeworld.

Boy, TNZ, this engine mod you suggested (implemented a bit differently than you suggested, but still the basic idea you proposed) has solved a whole raft of problems. The jump gate component no longer needs the "normal ship movement" ability and that has solved a grunch of problems in the full-tech design system (and thus the late-game design system). I cannot believe I suffered from this problem for over a year and the new CompEnhance system was available all that time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Next step are the components. Anyone have strong feelings either way about the Bridge, CC, and LS components being hullsize-based as the engines are now? I was not going to implement this (the need doesn't seem to be there except in the very smallest ship sizes, and it could change the damage profile for the largest ships) but if anyone strongly wants to see this, now is the time to say so.

[Timstone]

Ah good, the engines part is solved? Great!
I have nothing to add about the rest of the components, I'm here to make the weapons.

I'm glad the community swings into action again. After a long sleepy period The Mod is back into action again!

Grumbler: I send you several mail today. I was bored, I should have done other things, but I could. The Mod called me and I responded. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Fyron]

That isn't true in this mod for weapons tech - Max Tech gives everyone all the racial light weapons, medium, etc, but IS true for other stuff (like the LCPUs). Not sure where the weapons discrepancy crept in, but you are right and I shouldn't have doubted it! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, it is still true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Some of the weapons techs are not actually racial techs, as they do not have a racial number requirement. So, they can be given to other races (via a ship to be analyzed in some cases). However, in a low/med tech start, you can not research them, as you can not get access to the techs that they require, as they are actually racial techs. With high tech start, SE4 gives you all of the techs that have no racial number, as it is assumed that you could have gotten them from someone, somewhere, in the past.

kay, I have a "stock" AI_D_C that seems to work for all the normal races (haven't tried with Ancients yet, and won't until we get the normals at least done enough to play with). Still no armor, though. I don't want to add ability tags to armor unless I have to, because that will make the AI_D_C even more complex (we will be talking about a dozen or more special abilities per ship type). However, if that's what I gotta do...<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Leaky armors have no ability, so you have to add one in order to get the AI to call them. Armor calls only add components with the Armor ability. SE4 AI does not consider leaky armors to be "Armor". You can just add the same AI tag to all leaky armors of the same size. Well, you probably don't need to add AI tags for the Scattering Armor - Primary type armors, as you can call for the emissive abilities. But for the other armors, you need one for Light, one for Medium, and one for Heavy. Otherwise, you will never get the AI to add any of them to a ship design, as it can not add ability-less components.

[ March 28, 2004, 17:42: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Leaky armors have no ability, so you have to add one in order to get the AI to call them... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ouch. I was afraid of that! I realized that the "spaces per one" will make the AI_D_C a bit easier than I first thought. However, trudging through all those almost-identical armor types to add the abilities will take a while. But if its gotta be, its gotta be.

[pathfinder]

Originally posted by grumbler:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Leaky armors have no ability, so you have to add one in order to get the AI to call them... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ouch. I was afraid of that! I realized that the "spaces per one" will make the AI_D_C a bit easier than I first thought. However, trudging through all those almost-identical armor types to add the abilities will take a while. But if its gotta be, its gotta be. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ack, been there, done that...tedious work I tell ya! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[pathfinder]

What would keep a race limited to 400kt other than settings.txt? The settings.txt is set to 0 so I can "see" all the ships & bases but the Brakiri stops at 400kt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[TNZ]

[ March 29, 2004, 23:05: Message edited by: TNZ ]