Babylon 5 Mod [Archive] - Page 13

Timstone

May 15th, 2003, 07:43 PM

Hi all!

I'm back for a VERY short period. I'm heading for the next adventure in my life very soon. Fortunately it won't take that long, I'm a bit traveling sick. I would really stay much longer at home now.
First of all I owe all you guys (especially Fyron) a BIG apology. I volunteered for playing the Vree in the PBW. When the game began I couldn't forsee the huge changes my life has gone through. Let me explain.
First of all I was offered a job across the globe (Down Under to be precise), but the job included heavy traveling. So I couldn't enter the PBW anymore. Then the next change occured, I got another job, this time I was due to Chile (Latin America), I got to work on the VLT (Very Large Telescope). Only a month ago I entered my beloved home country again. All this work took it's toll on my life and friends (and my internet obligations). I feel I have to choose for my friends and family (they have seen me twice this year and only once Last year (during my worlking period)), so I officially quit the PBW.

But there's also good news. Coz all the work, I really have a renewed enthusiasm for SE IV again. I have started working on my own Version of the B5 Mod. I had some contact with our revered Val and I mentioned it to him I might do that when I got back home. Well, Last night I decided to do it. So I've begun my epic quest. I don't know how long it's going to take. I hope not that long. To make my life easier, I decided to copy as much as possible from the original B5 Mod (I'll send a message to Val first and I'd better ask everyones permission). So, I hereby ask permission of everybody who worked on the B5 Mod to use their material, file, pics and so on for use in the B5 Mod 2.0.

BTW. Work on the mod won't begin untill I'm back from Poland and the Czech Republic. It will take about two to three weeks to complete my journey.

pathfinder

May 15th, 2003, 11:58 PM

Hiya Timstone! Yeah, you can use/abuse any of the shipsets I made (Raiders, Gaim, Abbai) to include the AI.

Timstone

May 16th, 2003, 12:28 PM

Great to hear that! Da Path rulez!
But actually I only want to do the mod itself, not the races. I only want to "upgrade" the mod and undo some horrible unbalncing things. I want to make the mod modular. If you want to add a new races, you can do it in a jiffy. I standardise. If it turns out to be a faulty concept, we always have this Version. I hope my Version works out fine (not to mention doesn't take too long to make).

Timstone

May 16th, 2003, 05:11 PM

I realize I need to change the races too, but that's for later on, first I want the structure of the mod operational.

oleg

May 16th, 2003, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Embarrassment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I should have gotten Rambie's permission to alter/add to the EA shipset....

The same could be said about the Vorlon also....Atomannj and Oleg...

Is it ok?Fine with me

cybersol

May 17th, 2003, 03:29 AM

Wow, over 200 pages of Posts. There seems to be a lot of activity here, so I was wondering how often do updates of the B5 Mod occur?

Also, please tell me if this is the quickest way to get an up to date B5 gold mod. Download the total B5 Mod 1.49.33.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052175132.zip) that IF posted. Then install Pathfinder's Gold Update (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1044155514.zip) over that. Will that work? Thanks.

pathfinder

May 17th, 2003, 04:36 AM

CyberSol: Exactly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

latest updates have been graphics (Vorlon & EA ships).

The Gold Version I did was off either the v 1.78 or 1.8 Gold so isn't TOO out of date.

Geryon

May 17th, 2003, 07:22 AM

PF I was playing a game and got a missing bmp error when looking at the weapons of an enemy ship (I can't remember what race). It was components/comp_855...

Is this a bmp that was mistakenly looked over or is it there and I don't have it due to an extraction error from the zip or something?

I've been checking out certain aspects of advanced research ingame and I was curious if there are some things still unfinished or if I just am missing something while playing. I've noticed things like Hyperspace studies, telepath studies, cloaking, molecular and gravitic weapons, EA specific weapons such as EA advanced matter and Plasma, etc but researching these things apparently doens't do anything. Are these just incomplete or am I not researching the correct stuff to make these work?

I also haven't a clue how to research Jump Gates or Jump Engines, I've never seen any listing for them are there other things I have to research before seeing these on my list?

I'm having a ball with the mod btw. The only thing that kinda annoys me is that the species usually don't act according to their cultures and psychology, but I think that's more of a problem with the game itself not the mod. I got the Dilgar as psychotic berserkers and they always ally themselves to me while the honorable artisan Vorlons usually go psycho and declaring war for no reason lol.

[ May 17, 2003, 06:24: Message edited by: Geryon ]

Timstone

May 17th, 2003, 08:15 AM

CyberSol: Nice avatar! What the heck is it?

P.S. I'll leave for Poland and the Czech Republic in three days. Tuesday is my Last day here.

pathfinder

May 17th, 2003, 02:05 PM

Geryon: No, probably need a different components file(s). I'll check and see if I have it and if so, zip and post it. The MOD uses a number of additional pictures.

Update: I don't have it either, sooooooo......irritating..

855 is the Hyach Stealth Cloak. Wonder what the heck that looks like?

On the techs: Some techs are race specific and not documented unless you take the time to look at the components.txt file in the data folder. Guess that would be something for a to-do list...Also some techs simply have not been developed (eg EA Mega weapons).

On the Dilgar....Guess I could get them to be a bit bit more nasty...probably have to look at either the TDM Xi'Chung and/or Rage anger and/or politics files to how those values are done. I have had a very difficult time figuring those out and usually get permission to plagerize another race's files.

[ May 17, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 18th, 2003, 12:35 AM

PF on the demeanors/cultures don't really bother with that unless you really want to. I was merely making an observation and pointing out how it's kinda ironic that I had made the Dilgar as psychos yet were extremely friendly and the Vorlons who are serene artisans when apecrap on me shortly after first contact. Again, just an observation.

I suspected as much about the tech lists. I am fully aware this is still a WIP. It isn't really that important, I was only curious and making sure that I wasn't missing out some techs I needed to research ingame.

What I am still curious about is if you know if there's any actual hyperspace, jump tech or telepathic tech active in the game so far. I've only managed to get around using the standard warp points connecting the systems and a friend apparently told me you can either build Jump Gates or have jump engines that will allow longer range travel? The telepathic stuff I'm just curious in case I need it to fight the Shadows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

About the cloak...hmm, I have no idea what that should look like, then again I have no idea what any kind of cloak should look like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

AGoetz

May 18th, 2003, 01:09 AM

re Jump components

Jump Gate 1 (100 LY range)
requires Jump Gate Construction 1 (requires Hyperspace Studies 3),
Propulsion 10,
Fusion Utilization, 4
(Jump Gates 2-5 (200LY-500LY) just require more Jump Gate Construction research)

Jump Drive 1 (50 LY range)
requires Jump Drive Construction 1 (requires Hypespace Studies 4)
There are no upgrades for the Jump Drive.

A Jump Drive requires 100 space so can fit on most ships, a Jump Gate requires 4995 space and is intended to go on a Jump Gate Hull (requires Ship Construction 14 and Jump Gate Construction 1)

pathfinder

May 18th, 2003, 02:32 AM

Like AGoetz says...the tech is there but WAY down the road http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The EA I know can get the psych warfare stuff, not sure about the other races...

Geryon

May 18th, 2003, 02:35 AM

Thanks for the info AGoetz. I had researched hyperspace studies up to the first level but since it said none under expected results I stopped; same as telepathic studies, molecular weapons (I had hoped for the Omega-X Light Molecular Slicer), EA Advanced matter and plasma weapons, etc. Thanks again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

DigitalBlakAngel

May 18th, 2003, 05:09 AM

Has anyone heard a date when the B% mod will be out for SE4 gold.

pathfinder

May 18th, 2003, 05:10 AM

Molecular weapons (current in components): Yolu & Minbari neutron lasers, Shadows Molecular slicer. If/when Drakk are setup, they'll have them. Didn't know the EA had them too...Update: Ah, I see the Shadow Omega had both molecular slicers and an advanced pulse weapon (AoG B5 Wars).

BlackAngel: I put out a Version in February. a few pages back are the links. Too tired atm to put them up...

[ May 18, 2003, 11:25: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Timstone

May 18th, 2003, 02:47 PM

A little question.
I have a family tree with the name "Medical" in the Compnents list and in the Facilities list. Is that possible, does the program accept it?

pathfinder

May 18th, 2003, 03:30 PM

Timstone: Not sure. I know "regular" SEIV does...can't remember for sure but would think it would be [ossible as one can develop bio weapons (Plague missiles)...

Timstone

May 18th, 2003, 03:37 PM

Weel, I don't feel like testing, so I'll alter it in "Population Support" in the Facilities list.
Thanks! "I follow da Path!" Sorry, couldn't resist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

May 18th, 2003, 03:56 PM

Hehe...you have fun in Poland and Czechoslavakia.

Timstone

May 18th, 2003, 08:11 PM

Thanks, btw. nowadays it's The Czech Republic. Slovakia is another country.

But I'll be here untill tuesday, I'm not away yet. And besides I'll be back soon.

Work on the restructure commences without many problems, surprisingly...

pathfinder

May 18th, 2003, 10:34 PM

All: Anyone know if the Yolu had anything but light molecular weapons (light fusion cannon)?

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 12:18 AM

Yup the EA was given light molecular weapons by the Shadows to put on their Omega-Xs (Shadow Omega), they appeared in the series as a blueish beam. In the episodes they appeared, they didn't fire pulses but I suppose they might have updated their pulse technology as well.

How hard would it be to incorporate the Omega-X weapons to the mod at this point?

On the Yolu I have no idea. They were never closely featured in the series if at all and unfortunately AoG closed down before I was able to get any League supplements.

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 12:30 AM

Yeah, the League supplements I have to not have the Yolu listed. As for the EA...probably not TOO hard to add, Light Molecular slicers only? Also what is the advanced EA Plasma called (guess I could look it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

My guess is to give the Yolu medium and heavy molecular (fusion lasers?) but if anyone objects just say so and they won't be added.

[ May 18, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 12:50 AM

Question (SJ, IF, ???): A number of plasma weapons in the component.txt file of the B5 mod START at high levels (> 5). How would the AI handle research if 1/2 or more of the tech weapons are missing?

Update: Nevermind, got my answer in another thread.

[ May 19, 2003, 00:00: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 01:16 AM

The Plasma weapons depend on who you're going with. AoG lists the most advanced Plasma weapon as the Heavy Plasma cannon, Tim Earls who was the technical director for B5 listed there is a Trans-phased plasma cannon which is the main pulse cannon in the Warlock and the heaviest pulse cannon in the EA. Hope that helps... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 01:23 AM

A pulsing plasma weapon? hmmm...interesting...

heavy only or light thru heavy?

Maybe this could be EA Mega + advanced EA Plasma (have to see if I have to add that tech)...maybe like fuser or ranged fuser of Pak/Ma/Ra??

[ May 19, 2003, 00:27: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 01:28 AM

All Plasma weapons are pulse weapons, they all fire in bursts of pulses or single shots I mean. Yeah they have them light through heavy. I'm not sure however if plasma and trans-phased plasma are different. Perhaps the trans-phased plasma weapons have longer range, better fire rate and are stronger than normal plasma?

[ May 19, 2003, 00:34: Message edited by: Geryon ]

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 01:37 AM

Hehe, guess, once I get back from Cincinnati I can make a new EA plasma weapon tech. They already have plasma available, just need to add this as maybe EA advanced plasma (better range & damage...similar IMHO to ranged fuser of Pak'Ma'Ra---simply 'cause it'll be easier for me to add http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[ May 19, 2003, 00:38: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 01:44 AM

That's cool. It'll be nice to see some advanced plasma weapons and maybe those molecular slicers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Enjoy your trip.

Nomor

May 19th, 2003, 02:07 AM

Has anyone done anything with the Drakh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I have a history text that can be added to the Drakh_AI_General.txt and a race bmp but nothing else yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 19, 2003, 01:14: Message edited by: Nomor ]

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 02:12 AM

Nomor: Not yet but I guess I could do something maybe in 2-3 weeks from now. Going to Cincinnati for 1-2 weeks. Probably grab a shipset from someone and just add the few known ships from DOGA based on the pics available to it.

There is some Drakh tech in the components file and in the techarea.txt file (and of course create their various AI_files).

[ May 19, 2003, 01:17: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Nomor

May 19th, 2003, 02:36 AM

Thanks PF. Have sent you the Race portrait to look at.

Like? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 03:18 AM

Yup, sure do...

Hmmm...used SJ's tech-grid thingy to whip up a new EA plasma weapon (trans-phase plasma cannon). Looks ok but not sure about the range/damage increases.

[ May 19, 2003, 02:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 05:28 AM

Sounds good, man you sure work fast. I suppose the damage and range should be closer to the heaviest pulse cannons though not quite since Plasma weapons get weaker as they travel through the coldness of space...unlike the particle based pulse cannons. However you can make the plasma weapons stronger than the other pulse cannons as a trade off. You can either use other heavy pulse cannons that have longer ranges or the plasma cannons that have lesser range but are much more damaging.

pathfinder

May 19th, 2003, 07:17 AM

Geryon: Hehe, just used the Pak'Ma'Ra Fuser as a template...may be a bit strong *shrug*

Timstone

May 19th, 2003, 09:19 AM

Because I'm busy with the B5 Mod 2.0, the weapons section must also be restructured. But I wondered how I would do that.
I previously suggested to standardise all the races (give them a set number of weapons available to them beside the general techs), but now I think it might not be entirely what we want. The mod is about two things: many, many, many weapons and as true as can be to the serie. The many weapons issue can be taken care of, not that difficult. But true to the serie is a little bit harder to satisfy. One race appears quite regularly in the serie and the other only a few shots, fortunately we have the AoG books to draw inspiration from. But the most important thing is to balance it all. Every race must have an equal chance to kick butt. Now there can be a race with 500 weapons and another with only 10. Not very cool.
So, any suggestions about how to solve this? Hope you guys have some ideas.

Jamorobo

May 19th, 2003, 06:42 PM

Hi all i'm back after an age and a half.

Well a question first off:

I know there is a Gold Version as well as plain Se4 but which is now being developed, are all of the improvements going to be in Plain se4 then Gold at a later date as it was or is it just gold now.

It's just that i ain't updated by Plain se4 B5 mod since the start of January and i was wondering if i should download the Gold Version (don't worry i don't need directions to the Gold Version, i have looked back a few pages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

Right now on to me explaining things:

The Pulse weapons take up too much kt at the mo, Val admitted this (it was a mistake on his part whilst typing it) and yet after me badgering him for 6 months still nout has been done.

Also pulse weapons are not as good as they should be as EA changed their laser wielding capital ships for Pulse cannon ships as they had a longer range even though they do a little less damage. Hense the warlock EA destroyer using Pulse weapons. At the moment in the mod Laser weapons fire further and do more damage than pulse weapons. so a complete reversal!

It's good Plasma weapons are getting an overhaul as there pretty much pointless at the moment being out ranged by other weapons even though you can fit alot on one ship.

Geryon

May 19th, 2003, 11:14 PM

Welcome back Jamorobo, to help answer some of your questions:

As far as I know we are working on the Gold Version of the mod, I am uncertain if PF and Val (when he returns) will plan to import any new additions/changes from the Gold to the standard Version.

The pulse cannons are a bit heavy in tonnage I agree. As to the weapons efficiency, here's what I can tell you. Lasers are correct in having longer range and more damage, most EA ships carry lasers in one form or another.

Originally, the EA relied on plasma and matter weapons such as Rail Guns at the time of the Dilgar Invasion. The Dilgar were the first to develop particle pulse weapons which the EA and others retrofitted into their own technology while other major powers such as the Centauri and Narns already had them. Plasma weapons are stronger than particle weapons but only at closer ranges due to the coldness of space which diminish plasma's heat as it travels.

Laser weapons were developed by the Narns from reverse engineered Centauri weapons and later sold to the EA during the Minbari War.

There are several EA ships which still use plasma weapons such as the Olympus and the Hyperion's smaller turrets (the large batteries in the front are particle). Most ships have been rearmed with the particle pulse weapons such as the Warlock, Nova and Omega. Still Lasers are used in abundance as a standard weapon in the EA.

The Omega and Hyperion both contain the X-Ray Heavy Laser (the Omega combining it with the pulse cannons on the same turret). The Warlock however uses the same Heavy pulse cannons as the Nova, adds missiles and torpedoes, reincorporated the Rail Gun and has the 2 forward huge Particle Cannon beams.

Basically Plasma weapons have more strength but are short range, particle weapons have longer range but are a bit weaker while lasers have both the benefit of range and strength.

The strongest weapon the EA has fielded though was the Light Molecular Slicer derived from the standard Shadow Molecular Slicer. This weapon was given to the EA by the Shadows to originally be mounted on the Warlock which was the original ship intended to have the hybrid shadow armor, when Clark panicked as he was losing the Civil War, both the hybrid armor and the Light Molecular Slicers were adapted onto new Omega hulls and rushed into service. This was a blue beam as opposed to the X-Ray laser which is red. The LMS has further range, more damage than standard lasers and it didn't require practically any recharge time as the Omega-X's just let them rip and didn't need to stop, recharge and then fire again like other lasers. It was suspected that the tech for these weapons were destroyed by the Shadows after Clark lost the war but in the series Crusade it was planned to be revealed that EA special black ops had in fact successfully adapted EA shadow armor and the molecular weapons, which would appear in a ship often referred to as the EA/Shadow Hybrid. So it is also believable that the EA still has Light Molecular Slicers in its inventory and might even have been fitted into later models of the Warlock as originally intended.

[ May 19, 2003, 22:26: Message edited by: Geryon ]

pathfinder

May 20th, 2003, 01:36 AM

To add to what Geryon states the AoG book "Ships of the Fleet" also has the Shadow Omega with molecular pulsar (similar to a Minbari weapon) and another molecular weapon (Light molecular cutter IIRC). I am looking at LEAST the light molecular slicer being added since it actually was in the TV show (testing it in my current game---need something to combat the Minbari & Shadows (regular molecular slicers in battleships mounts *shudder* ).

As for the plasma range...is a problem only if the plasma-equipped ships run into Vorlon, Shadow or Minbari ships or ones with lasers/pulse weapons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 20, 2003, 01:29: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 20th, 2003, 02:32 AM

As for 1.49, I am NOT going to go back and try and untangle the RCE's due to engines (and whatever else). The Gold Version has proven to be very stable (>900 turns in previous game without so much as a whimper).

AGoetz

May 20th, 2003, 02:40 AM

Just checking that I'm following correctly : Version 2.0 will be Gold only.
Version 2.0 will have completely new weapon systems, hopefully giving every race a usable range of comparable power (Ancients will of course have the best)

pathfinder

May 20th, 2003, 02:54 AM

AGoetz: Gold Version already out. Timstone is doing a bit different Version. I am attempting to re-do some of the weapons in current (unofficial) Gold Version.

I am not going to fiddle with 1.49 any more as the RCE's and their root cause are beyond my limited abilities to determine and/or fix.

pathfinder

May 20th, 2003, 03:56 AM

Can anyone tell what the heck, in SEIV terms, a gunship is?

Geryon

May 20th, 2003, 06:19 AM

A gunship is the modern day equivalent of an attack helicopter such as an Apache. In B5 terms a Gunship might be a warship-like transport (think something like a battle Version of a shuttle) or it can even be a small capital ship such as the Drazi Sunhawk that is a Gunship.

In terms of SE4 you might be able to use it in either a larger fighter/attack shuttle role (if possible) or in a smaller capital ship role between scout and escort.

Oh and one Last thing, I was browsing through the booklet that came with my Gold game and it says that it includes a bunch of mods in the cd. I recall one of them having some sort of pirate race that actually assaults other ships to survive and thrive and don't require planets, I was curious what do you think about this for the Raiders? I haven't got a clue how to implement it or if it's from the normal game itself but that does portray them closer to the series. What do you think?

[ May 20, 2003, 09:20: Message edited by: Geryon ]

Timstone

May 20th, 2003, 10:23 AM

My Last day here, tomorrow I'm off to Poland and the Czech Republic. Jeha! I really want to go there, two very cool countries.
Anyway, back to bussines.
I see that nobody has given me any advise about how to do the weapons for every race. Than this is what I'll do. I'll convert the rest of the Ancients (I already had plans for them) and then I'll post that Version and see what you guys think of it.
I repeat, nothing special is done to it. I'm just restructuring the whole mod for easy use by other people. Also that way I can add anything much faster (when that Version of the mod is accepted).
So PF, I'm not doing something different. It's still the same mod, only with a different internal structure. It'll be entirely Gold orrientated.

Geryon: Very impressive knowledge. I comment you.

[ May 20, 2003, 09:24: Message edited by: Timstone ]

pathfinder

May 20th, 2003, 12:10 PM

Geryon: That would be the Pirates & Nomads MOD. Both the Raiders & ShagToth will have these traits (no colonies IIRC) if/when they are implemented. I have no clue as to how that works so atm they both are "normal" races.

[ May 20, 2003, 11:11: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Jamorobo

May 20th, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Geryon:
Welcome back Jamorobo, to help answer some of your questions:

As far as I know we are working on the Gold Version of the mod, I am uncertain if PF and Val (when he returns) will plan to import any new additions/changes from the Gold to the standard Version.

The pulse cannons are a bit heavy in tonnage I agree. As to the weapons efficiency, here's what I can tell you. Lasers are correct in having longer range and more damage, most EA ships carry lasers in one form or another.

Originally, the EA relied on plasma and matter weapons such as Rail Guns at the time of the Dilgar Invasion. The Dilgar were the first to develop particle pulse weapons which the EA and others retrofitted into their own technology while other major powers such as the Centauri and Narns already had them. Plasma weapons are stronger than particle weapons but only at closer ranges due to the coldness of space which diminish plasma's heat as it travels.

Laser weapons were developed by the Narns from reverse engineered Centauri weapons and later sold to the EA during the Minbari War.

There are several EA ships which still use plasma weapons such as the Olympus and the Hyperion's smaller turrets (the large batteries in the front are particle). Most ships have been rearmed with the particle pulse weapons such as the Warlock, Nova and Omega. Still Lasers are used in abundance as a standard weapon in the EA.

The Omega and Hyperion both contain the X-Ray Heavy Laser (the Omega combining it with the pulse cannons on the same turret). The Warlock however uses the same Heavy pulse cannons as the Nova, adds missiles and torpedoes, reincorporated the Rail Gun and has the 2 forward huge Particle Cannon beams.

Basically Plasma weapons have more strength but are short range, particle weapons have longer range but are a bit weaker while lasers have both the benefit of range and strength.

The strongest weapon the EA has fielded though was the Light Molecular Slicer derived from the standard Shadow Molecular Slicer. This weapon was given to the EA by the Shadows to originally be mounted on the Warlock which was the original ship intended to have the hybrid shadow armor, when Clark panicked as he was losing the Civil War, both the hybrid armor and the Light Molecular Slicers were adapted onto new Omega hulls and rushed into service. This was a blue beam as opposed to the X-Ray laser which is red. The LMS has further range, more damage than standard lasers and it didn't require practically any recharge time as the Omega-X's just let them rip and didn't need to stop, recharge and then fire again like other lasers. It was suspected that the tech for these weapons were destroyed by the Shadows after Clark lost the war but in the series Crusade it was planned to be revealed that EA special black ops had in fact successfully adapted EA shadow armor and the molecular weapons, which would appear in a ship often referred to as the EA/Shadow Hybrid. So it is also believable that the EA still has Light Molecular Slicers in its inventory and might even have been fitted into later models of the Warlock as originally intended.Good, it's ok i checked the site i tried to remember the info from and you are correct, np. Also i looked at a B5 war sheet of a EA Destroyer and the Heavy laser does have more range than a Heavy Pulse cannon. ( it looses -1 acc every 3hexes to the pulse cannons -1 every 2 hexes) This loss of acc is apparently how Val decided the max range of weapons.

Anyway i'm glad to see someone agrees with the prob with the pulse weps size http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Are we going to keep Val's formula for weapons as they are and just tinker to improve gameplay (this includes adding some weapons to give some races more choice in what to use)?

Or are we going to start from scratch.

Apparently Val took all his specs for weapons from the B5 War game and did somthing to make it so he had levels of weapons insted of just the one. it this somthing we could contunue as it does give a solid bases for weapon damage and range to a point, the only problem is you don't get lvl1-10 heavy laser, only one type of heavy laser (i hope you get what i mean). So you would need some type of formula for each weapon (how it increases in range and damage over the X amount of levels the weapon has).

On a different note, the Shaddow based EA weapons are catered for on the mod allready arn't they. IIRC vorlons and shaddows have "Shaddow/vorlon based weapons" as a research field and the idea is the player gives this tech to another race eg. EA and with the tech and another tech eg laser weapons 4 and biological weapons 3 the EA player is able to produce the kickass hybrid weapon.

Anyway i'm off to download the Gold Version of this mod and the latest Version of the Gold se4 patch

Suicide Junkie

May 20th, 2003, 05:05 PM

The way it works is:
a) The race has no colonization ability
b) The race is given bonus components for improving their ability to capture ships cheaply.
Small boarding party components, anti-boarding defense crew toxins, shield disruptors, etc.
c) The race is given bonus components for living in space... Tiny spaceyards, no maintenance costs, completely undetectable ships (Blend in with the civilian traffic), etc.

All combined, this gives you a race that will quickly spread out and build small bases and outPosts in secret places. They will be able to use their stealthiness to pick and choose the targets they attack (unescorted transports, small colonies, etc). They can then plunder the planets and deconstruct the ships for cash and tech.
Low or No maintenance allows them to survive even after taking losses to unexpected resistance, and when the other races have their military doing extra patrols and escorts.

Timstone

May 20th, 2003, 09:34 PM

Quote Jamorobo:

Or are we going to start from scratch.

Yes! That is the thing I suggested a long time ago, but nobody wanted that, so I dropped it.
I have some books from AoG and that would be a perfect basis for the new stream of weapons.
I'm currently restructuring the whole mod for easy use and further component implementation. If we have some sort of rules available for use on weapons, we could steam ahead with incredible speed. What do you say people?! We start with this new project?

Sadly I'm off to Poland and the Czech Republic, so I'll be out of the picture for about 3 or 4 weeks. I hope I have some sort of acces to a internet connection. I'll upload all my stuff on my laptop, that way I can at least continue work while I'm there.

I hope this new wind will sweep new life into our mod. Hope you guys are willing to help.
Till soon!!

jimbob

May 21st, 2003, 12:48 AM

Ok, sorry Timstone, I didn't want to give advice when I'm really not that useful for the construction of the files, etc. Nevertheless, your call for suggestions elicits this:

I think it would be nice if the special racial tech weapons wouldn't require several levels of the racial tech. As it stands now, a researcher would need to do say 4 levels of racial tech to get a race specific weapon... but they would get nothing at levels 1, 2 or 3. For a new player they're going to be confused and not persue it. Instead, I propose that the race specific weaponry would work like this:

Super-duper Raiders Laser
Requirement 1: laser weapons 8
Requirement 2: (general*) medium weapons 2
Requirement 3: raiders racial tech 1 **

versus the current system:

Super-duper Raiders Laser
Requirement 1: advanced laser weapons 1 ***
Requirement 2: raiders medium weapons 2 ****

* of course there would no longer be a "general" Category, and there would be no "racial" categories here. These are really confusing, and often do not provide any immediate component pay-off. Unless one wishes to delve into the text files, they take their life into their own hands gambling on an uncertain tech tree. What if we just up the price and reduce the number of empty technologies? As far as the general and racial specific categories go, just colapse this down to a general Category, and use the racial trait instead.
** this technology will of course never need to be "researched" by the player so is a "hidden". The result? The player has one less thing to worry about.
*** which requires lasers 7 (the addition of "advanced" lasers instead of lasers 8 is confusing to me anyway. The ambiance is nice, but the confusion is overwhelming = not worth the ambiance IMHO)
**** which requires raiders light weapons 2 + raiders medium weapons 1... neither of which results in any useable components.

This way it is still necessary for the racial tech to be present, but the system is a little less convoluted. Even if things become capturable by this method, it has the advantage of elegance/simplicity = good in my book!

Geryon

May 21st, 2003, 01:01 AM

Ok,

Jamorobo: The EA Shadow-hybrid weaponry and armor (the Omega-X hybrid armor) are not in the mod yet to my knowledge. PF is working on the Light Molecular Slicer and the trans-phased plasma weapons (EA advanced plasma weapons).

Suicide Junkie: Firstly, fantastic job on the Pirates and Nomad mod. The concepts you created are perfect for Raiders and Soul Hunters. Again I have no idea how this could be implemented into the B5 mod should it be decided to do so. I have seen the Soul Hunters use something called B5 nomadic race traits, but I'm unsure if they are the same as what you created. If it is the same, then the Soul Hunters already have this style and all that would be needed is changing the Raiders from B5 standard race to B5 nomadic race.

Timestone: I like the idea of using authentic weapons system for the mod but considering how far Val's Version is right now I don't know if it would be the best to rewrite the weapons system all over, that would certainly push the mod back a long ways and take much more time to develop and balance. But after this mod is finished I can see great potential for an addon with the new weapons system, again just my opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PF: I already added the ship sizes that were in the yet to be added txt and I have a question. Since Breach Pods and Assault shuttles carry troops are they supposed to house some sort of cargo bay or do they automatically have the numbers of troops stated in the description? I ask because both of these fall under the fighters Category and I can't see any kind of cargo bay to add to them to hold the troops. Since they were wip I was wondering if I needed to add these cargo bays somehow...do you know? Thanks.

pathfinder

May 21st, 2003, 01:13 AM

Geryon: Not sure on the Assult shuttles and breaching pods. Guess Val was trying to figure this out to.

I have the EA lt mol slicer and the new plasma weapon in-game (though not used in combat yet). All I would have to do to get the armor is add that research path. The armor IIRC is already in the components.txt file so doing the research statements is all that has to be done.

and on Nomads, me just clueless on HOW to write those statements up. Guess I need to study the Nomad trait(s) in the P & N MOD.

[ May 21, 2003, 00:19: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 21st, 2003, 01:23 AM

Ok thanks PF. I guess I'll just have to build some breach pods ingame and see if they successfully capture an enemy or derelict ship...I think I'll try it on some of those derelict Ancient ships and see if they get it. If it doesn't work, then that's probabaly the reason they hadn't been added yet.

Since Suicide Junkie added a ship capture system I can also have a look at this and see if something like it can be done...again, if it doesn't already work which I hope it does, I was more interested in playing this mod than modding it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Well as soon as you get those new weapons working, give me a holler...I'd love to give them a test run...if I can add them mid-game otherwise, it would be a while until I could reach them in a brand new game, being advanced weapons and all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 21, 2003, 00:25: Message edited by: Geryon ]

pathfinder

May 21st, 2003, 02:15 AM

Oh oh...The EAS Yorktown (heavy cruiser) (3 Light Molecular Slicers) just popped a Hurr Battlecruiser (9 squares, 152 damage http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Yes, they do work...so human players would have them available now. I need to add molecular research to the AI_research.txt file) and 1 ship(?) class to have the slicers in AI_designcreation.txt file...which one?

The EA will be required to research both Earth Alliance Ultra weapons and molecular weapons.

Also, just the light molecular slicer? or also add the pulsar and cutter?

[ May 21, 2003, 01:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

AGoetz

May 21st, 2003, 04:38 AM

I've given in and ordered the Gold Version. When that comes I'll see if I can of any assistance with newer Versions than is currently in use in PBW.

Research in particular feeling much slower in PBW than in single player - guess that's the difference between 5 end turns and a week and a half ....

Suicide Junkie

May 21st, 2003, 04:57 AM

Notes:

Units can not carry cargo or capture ships via boarding parties... Allegiance subverters would work, but are insanely powerful skip-all weapons that would stack the chance to convert (even at 1% chance, 100 fighters in a stack will get you 100% chance to convert. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif )

You will want a small ship with boarding parties instead. If you put the boarding party ability into the hull, the ship will never lose them, and can capture an infinite number of ships in combat.
A special mount that reduces the size or cost of boarding parties on the assault transport would be effective.

pathfinder

May 21st, 2003, 05:10 AM

Hmmm...ability to the hull.....

Boarding attack ?

Looks like I need to drop the 25% cargo requirement (no cargo hold small enough currently in-game) and/or add a boarding attack ability. My vote is to drop the cargo requirement and add the ability.

[ May 21, 2003, 04:20: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 21st, 2003, 06:10 AM

Hmm, I haven't the slightest clue how to add the boarding ability to the hull (wish I did to get it working asap) but since PF seems to get it...phew!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I take it this means my breach pods do nothing at the current time...oh well.

You can add the molecular pulse weapons and cutter if you like, though I really don't know the difference between the slicer and cutter. The ship to naturally carry the Light Molecular Slicer would be the Omega-X or battleship in mod terms. Though I can assure you I'll be adding them also to the super-dreadnought variant of the Warlock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Update: I checked the designcreation.txt in the Pirates and Nomads mod and compared it to the ones in the B5 Mod and the normal game. And the Assault Ship type has the boarding ship abilities so I suppose I can classify the Breach Pods as an Assault Ship and it should work fine. I have no idea what to do with assault shuttles since they are supposed to be used as combat dropships and troops are dropped into planets via normal transports, I also haven't a clue about regular shuttles for that matter since I can't find a use for them. So I guess we already have functioning breach pods, all we need now is those advanced EA weapons and we're set http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 21, 2003, 06:50: Message edited by: Geryon ]

Timstone

May 21st, 2003, 03:24 PM

Damn, I'm glad to login on the www! In my hotelroom (in Germany) for the night is a internet connection!! Jeeha!!! I just love those thorough Germans.

Thanks for the input Jimbob and Geryon. I'll see what I do with it. For now, I'll just clean up the mess the mod has developed in over the Last few Versions.
What about the armor section? What the heck do I do with the hazy concept of Primary, Additional and Alternate armor? I don't intend to let them stay all three. I would like to scrap one of them. The concept is hazy, even to me. A noob would know the difference or the usefulness of those three Versions. So, I plan to scrap the Alternate Version. Would make it a bit more clear. What do you guys think?

Damn typos! Grr...

[ May 21, 2003, 14:26: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Suicide Junkie

May 21st, 2003, 03:34 PM

At tech level 1, you get Primary which is a big chunck that provides most of the special ability.

At tech level 2, you get Alternate, which allows you to add one more chunk of special ability armor.

At tech level 3, you get the Additional, which allows you to have as many of the extra special ability armor chunks as you like.

This keeps large ships from getting an overwhelmingly large advantage from those special abilities, and provides a tech progression to gradually improve the number of armor segments you can get to "work together" for use on the large ships.

I can provide a set of components with more detailed descriptions if you want.

[ May 21, 2003, 14:36: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Timstone

May 21st, 2003, 04:19 PM

Thanks for the quick reply SJ!
Aha, so that is how it works. Well, I still think the Alternate Version is a bit superfluous. It takes up research points and it delivers only a fraction of the help a Primary bit gives you, if you research some more, you get heaps and heaps of the same advantages (Additional) and to make it worse, you can only fit one of the Alternate one on your ship. I think it's a waste of space, research and filelength.

Quote SJ:
I can provide a set of components with more detailed descriptions if you want.

What do you mean?

jimbob

May 21st, 2003, 07:29 PM

Timstone: Yah, well I hope the ideas are useful. I'd like to think of myself as a good SEIV players, but really, I'm a bit more of a newbie when it comes to the complex tech trees. Just think of me as your litmus newbie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I was also thinking, almost all the mods have self destruct devices at only the 3rd level of propulsion. Since playing pirates and nomads, where ship boarding is supposed to be important, I've come to believe that self destruct devices are introduced way to early in the tech tree. Could we bump them up on the tech tree? Maybe have a computer requirement too? This would be especially important (IMHO) if the B5 mod picked up some P&N-like races.

hope these ideas help,
jimbob

Timstone

May 21st, 2003, 07:38 PM

Jimbob: That can be arranged. I'll give it a computer requirement besides the normal requirements. When it is done, I'll report it here.

Tjeez, I really like this German hotel, nice women behind the intake desk downstairs, a cool bar with my favorite Dutch beer, a fairly spaceous room, an internet connection at a low price and nice colleagues to travel with. It's a real pitty I leave here in two day's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Could someone please tell me what the point is in having three types of ECM (Basic, Advanced and Elite) and also three types of Combat Sensors (Basic, Advanced and Elite)?! I couldn't make heads or tails from it when I played the mod, it's not very diffirent now. What should I do with it?

Edit: Jimbob: I've changed the requirements for the Self Destruct Device to Level 5 Propultion and Level 1 Computers. Is this more like it?

[ May 21, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Jamorobo

May 21st, 2003, 09:02 PM

well i've started a new B5mod game on gold, (3 planets start off, ai has medium bonus, with all the races that are emp files at the mo and randomly generated empires ticked which means 2 narn races! Oh well

It's turn 15 at the mo and i'm 6th but i havn't really started to try and expand (i've only colonised 3 other planets bringing my total to 6). Checking on the score screen the ai empires don't seem to be going fast at all even with the bonus i gave them they have the same or just below the amount of techs i have and some have less planets, IIRC in my se4 plain games the Centuri would grab any and every planet in site and the minbari were the same, in this gold Version they seem to be rather stale at the mo.
We really need to give the ai a kick in the arse to get them going.

Keep the Sensors and ECMs as they are, the idea is that instead of having one component which just increases your to hit chance to a stupidly high number or whatever you need several components wich each give a small advantage so to get a really good hit prob you need to use alot of your prescious space on your ship to get it.

With weapons, val used the B5 wars AoG stuff (not on everything offcourse eg. bLast cannons,) now if val was here he could tell use how he converted the weps for use in the mod, he might of used a scaling formula for different types of weapons/ race weapons. who knows http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif what we do need regardless is ideas on weapons or weapon fixes which can be seen and agreed by all before final implimentation into the next Version of the mod.

Suicide Junkie

May 21st, 2003, 09:24 PM

Aha, so that is how it works. Well, I still think the Alternate Version is a bit superfluous. It takes up research points and it delivers only a fraction of the help a Primary bit gives you, if you research some more, you get heaps and heaps of the same advantages (Additional) and to make it worse, you can only fit one of the Alternate one on your ship. I think it's a waste of space, research and filelength.Whether it is a waste of space or not depends entirely on the situation...
If you are facing enemy guns that do 50 damage, and your primary armor blocks 30, an alternate that blocks only 10 will reduce the damage you take from 20 to 10, and your ship survives twice as long.
As for being a waste of research, that also depends on the situation... These armor techs are designed such that players CANNOT race down the entire tree. You will quickly reach a point where the additional research costs are too much for the value you'll get... However, after a few years, the other techs you work on will get to be the same way, and you'll come back to the armor tech again!

Filelength? Ha! Not a problem at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Have you seen my 7 meg components file upgrade for P&N? It still loads in a flash, and dosen't hurt SE4's speed in the least.
Quote SJ:
I can provide a set of components with more detailed descriptions if you want.Well, seeing as I designed and wrote the armor components, I should be the one to update 'em http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Could someone please tell me what the point is in having three types of ECM (Basic, Advanced and Elite) and also three types of Combat Sensors (Basic, Advanced and Elite)?! I couldn't make heads or tails from it when I played the mod, it's not very diffirent now. What should I do with it? Keep the Sensors and ECMs as they are, the idea is that instead of having one component which just increases your to hit chance to a stupidly high number or whatever you need several components wich each give a small advantage so to get a really good hit prob you need to use alot of your prescious space on your ship to get it.Pre-cisely! In addition, the tech requirements are also arranged so that in order to get really good ECM, you need to know some sensor techs... knowing how they work allows you to better understand how to defeat them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 21, 2003, 20:28: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Starfishy

May 21st, 2003, 09:41 PM

Downloaded the mod, have tried it out a little, and wouldn't mind getting in on the game. I have applied for the open spot for the Vree, can I have it?

Thanks,
Starfishy

Timstone

May 21st, 2003, 11:27 PM

Last post before I turn in for the precious night.

SJ, Jamorobo: Thanks for all the info. It's crystal clear now.
Sensors: Do they need work? If so, who's the best person to do it?
Armor: SJ designed them. So the questions are, do the need work and is SJ prepared to do it for the mod?

Tomorrow I'll be Online most of the day (good hotel, lots of free time... after some stupid meeting with uninteresting people). So please feel free to spew you ideas, suggestions and the like.
I had a little idea about how I get the mod going a bit sooner. When I have the time, I'll begin with the work on it. Yes, I foresee great things.
Yeeess... (Megatron stile)

pathfinder

May 22nd, 2003, 12:26 AM

StarFishy: One note: you need to have SEIV v 1.49 to use the B5 PBW... SEIV Gold will not work.

pathfinder

May 22nd, 2003, 12:57 AM

B5 Cascor: Neutral race atm:

1053557771.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053557771.zip)

jimbob

May 22nd, 2003, 01:54 AM

Timstone: Yes, that would be nice. Propulsion 5 and computers 1 pushes the selfdestruct up the tech tree just a bit, buys some of the players just that little bit of extra time.

cheers,
jimbob

Timstone

May 22nd, 2003, 10:25 AM

Stupid meetings! Grr... Ah well, at least I get to drink some excellent tea and talk about things I won't have to use my brain with. I hope it's over soon, I want to work on the mod again. If I'm not so lucky I'll be stuck in that room with those uninteresting people for about the rest of the day (if they feel the offer we make isn't good enough). Hope it's over soon.

Jimbob: Hope I pushed it far enough behind. I wanted to push it to L6 Propulsion and L1 Computers, but that would be just a little bit too far and it wouldn't make sense. You can make ships, but not destroy them with a single bLast to the powercore? A bit strange. Ah well, we'll see if this is enough.

When I'm done with the business talks, I'll commit myself to the mod again. I'll strip all the race dependant thingies and then I add every race bit by bit. One race at the time. I'll begin with those Ancients, coz I already have some ideas for them in store. Hope it works out fine.
See ya all later!

pathfinder

May 22nd, 2003, 12:16 PM

I'll withdraw since this is being totally re-written. Ciao..

Timstone

May 22nd, 2003, 12:29 PM

Path: Are you mad at me? I hope not.
Tha Version I'm making is a Version beside the one that already exists. A sort of supplement. I'm very curious if my Version is as good as the mod we have at this moment.
I thought you guys by now understood my Version is a test. If not, I'll tell it again.

MY VERSION IS A TEST VERSION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL DO BETTER THAN THE MOD AT THIS MOMENT.

Please Path, I don't want you to be mad at me. When all the basic work is done, I need your experience with the race files and the like. I apologize if I did something very wrong.

Suicide Junkie

May 22nd, 2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by Timstone:
SJ, Jamorobo: Thanks for all the info. It's crystal clear now.
Sensors: Do they need work? If so, who's the best person to do it?
Armor: SJ designed them. So the questions are, do the need work and is SJ prepared to do it for the mod?Well, I desinged the sensors too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The biggest thing with them, I believe, would be their effectiveness relative to purchasable racial traits...
Doubling the strength of the sensors & ECM is a possibility.

Jamorobo

May 22nd, 2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
I'll withdraw since this is being totally re-written. Ciao..Don't be like that Pathfinder, OUR mod isn't being re written, we need someone to code the ai and i personly don't know how to do it, and you are doing a damn good job.

Anyway, we need to decide on what we want or need to change in the mod before we do anything substantial, ai is an exception as that is a general ongoing process which needs to be updated constantly as new idea's come along.

Could i also have names of people who want to contibute to the mod either through creating new components + adding ones that haven't been implemented yet or general testing of new components and ai. This will make it easier to gather names when a new Version of the mod is created and when sorting out who is doing what.

I myself would like to see if i can sort out Pulse weapons for EA which are currently taking too much room for their worth.

Timstone

May 22nd, 2003, 06:53 PM

Stupid meeting is finaly over, damn, those people were picky. Each and every thing had to be talked over. Tjees!

Quote of Jamorobo:
...OUR mod...

Sorry my good man, my mistake. Thanks for correcting me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

The plan I had in mind for this Version is the following:
1) Stripping eveyrthing ot do with races.
2) Restructuring following a certain pattern (I came up with).
3) Add all the tech that every race can get.
4) Discuss a standard way to make a race.
5) Implement a few races.
6) See wat has to be changed.
7) Implement the changes
8) Add some more races.
9) etc...

I've done 1 and 2, but now we have to decide on point 4. A standard outfit for every race. Point 3 is a relatively simple thing. I'll do that too. I think it'll be finished next week.
But as I mentioned, point 4 needs attention. That way everybody can design his or her favorite race.

I have made preparations for the Ancients (except the Vorlons and the Shadows), so I want to implement those.

Path: Please don't leave. You're one of the senior (sorry for the word) member, you have solved soooo many problems with the AI, made dozens of important changes to the mod and delivered a huge amount of shipsets. I really hope you decide you stay and help. If you feel I should apologize for anything I might have done wrong I will. But please decide to stay with us, you're very important.

Timstone

May 22nd, 2003, 07:21 PM

SJ: If you would like to update the Armor and the Sensors, please do. If you have them ready could you send them to me? Don't worry about the family number, I have that covered. I'll fill them in when you have them ready. If you don't want to update them, please give instructions on how I should do it. Thanks!

Timstone

May 22nd, 2003, 08:41 PM

Well, I'll sign off for today. I've continued work on the restructure and it is done now. Next stop are the weapons, the greatest changes in the current Version.
I hope you people discus a bit about the standard for every race (how many weapons and how many from which sort (heavy, light, medium, pointdefense, mine, etc...).
Tomorrow is my day of, so I think I'll be off with my friends to see something from this little town (don't even know it's name). The day after tomorrow is the Last day here in this wonderfull hotel, so I think I won't login then. See ya!!

pathfinder

May 22nd, 2003, 11:56 PM

Mad ...no. Refusing to waste my time on a MOD that may be totally re-designed..yes.

Geryon

May 23rd, 2003, 12:15 AM

WTF just happened here? I leave for a day or two and when I come back the mod is being redesigned and PF sent in his walking papers?

Timestone: I understand you're making your own Version of the mod with your personal preferences and all I can say is keep up the good work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PF: I hope you're seriously not considering leaving. I am not interested in changing the mod's contents myself aside from what we've been discussing. In my point of view the mod as it stands is quite ahead in progress and it would be a real shame if you dropped out of it now. I know I've only been of marginal help to you with your work and you've had to take up pretty much everything since Val's gone AWOL for so long, but I do hope you stay and finish the mod as it currently stands. If you still decide to leave then thanks for all your hard work and great job on the mod.

Timstone

May 23rd, 2003, 07:29 PM

PF: Damn, I don't know what to say to you PF. I really want you to stay and see the final update of the next Version of OUR mod (Thanks Jamorobo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).
Wait with resigning until you've seen the first things of this Version. We need you with the testing of the mod. You know more than anyone else (besides Val) how the mod should be, feel like and look like. For me, you're the undisputed champ of this mod. You kept it going when Val disappeared and did all of the frustrating things like the AI and ironing out the RCE's.
All I ask of you is to be patient. Wait until you see the first glimpse of this Version.

Edit:
Geryon: Thanks for your trust. I think you can help build the mod too, I'll let you know later on. Thumbs up!

SJ: Ehh... what do you say about the Armor and the Sensors? You would like to redo them? I really hope so, I'm not that good at those kind of things. Goes a little bit too deep.

[ May 23, 2003, 18:31: Message edited by: Timstone ]

pathfinder

May 23rd, 2003, 10:00 PM

Let me be very clear: NOT retiring (completely anyways). Simply NOT wasting my time with AI or data files until the situation clears. I really do NOT want to do 2 sets of AI/Data files.

and yeah I AM bummed a bit: about year doing this to have the work flushed... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Geryon

May 23rd, 2003, 11:32 PM

I can see how this might have been misinterpreted, but the way I see it Pathfinder the mod you've been working on (Val's Version) is the official TBP mod. I personally find this mod quite complete as it stand, except a few things here and there; shipset reworkings, weapons or a tech or two that needed to be added.

Timestone's mod is a variant of this mod as he has explained, it's not inteded to replace the normal Version at all.

Anyways, I do hope we can continue to work on the mod PF, I was really looking forward to seeing the new weapons you developed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 24th, 2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Timstone:
SJ: Ehh... what do you say about the Armor and the Sensors? You would like to redo them? I really hope so, I'm not that good at those kind of things. Goes a little bit too deep.Well, the descriptions anyways.
As for the sensors; if you guys feel they're too weak, I wouldn't have any problem doubling the strength.

pathfinder

May 24th, 2003, 12:10 AM

Oh that Version will come out and as a "complete" d/l. may have to be 2-3 parts (30 mb limit here) but several things: smaller size pulse weapons (especilly heavy), a bit longer (especially heavy) plasma in general tech tree, already have added light mol slicer for EA along with an advanced plasma weapon. looking at adding advanced armor (but way down tech tree) to EA (shadow armor ala Omega). that light mol slicer I guess goes in EA battlecruiser. also have a number of shipsets for neutrals and a new generic shipset. will also add Drakk.

[ May 23, 2003, 23:10: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

jimbob

May 24th, 2003, 12:12 AM

PF: PM

Fyron

May 24th, 2003, 12:47 AM

Could i also have names of people who want to contibute to the mod either through creating new components + adding ones that haven't been implemented yet or general testing of new components and ai. This will make it easier to gather names when a new Version of the mod is created and when sorting out who is doing what. I made the Formations file. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

For the Gold Version, I suggest that the Ultimate Startegies Mod (see sig) be merged into B5 Mod. The formations in it are much much better, as well as the strategy options. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 23, 2003, 23:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Geryon

May 24th, 2003, 12:48 AM

Sounds great PF, can't wait to see it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

May 24th, 2003, 12:52 AM

IF: will do

Geryon

May 24th, 2003, 01:03 AM

Btw PF is there any chance the new changes and additions can come out as an addon to the existing mod? Since I added the breach pods, assault shuttles, a few bmps here and there, etc. I'd really appreciate it if I could just add it into my currently existing mod so I wouldn't lose any changes or have to do them again. If you can that is, if not, I'll make do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 24th, 2003, 01:21 AM

Updated armor names & descriptions.1053731983.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053731983.zip)

Primary, secondary and grid.
The descriptions in secondary and grid armors mention the fact that they are addons, and that the secondary armor has a limit of one per ship, while the grid does not.

pathfinder

May 24th, 2003, 01:53 AM

Not sure that I can since I do not know specifically what was done..

You could unzip to a dummy area/folder then pick-and choose..

[ May 24, 2003, 00:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 24th, 2003, 03:11 AM

I can do that, all I need to know is what files I have to add to get the new Plasma and Molecular weapons ingame. Because right now I don't know which files you altered to make them work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

May 24th, 2003, 03:41 AM

I think we should work towards speeding up game play a bit. It takes too long to get anything done, esp. in PBW games...

pathfinder

May 24th, 2003, 03:44 AM

My hands are full doing what I am doing...no time to figger that out IF.

Someone else what to take on research and build times (cost)?

[ May 24, 2003, 02:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Fyron

May 24th, 2003, 03:54 AM

Just halving the costs of most facilities is a good start. 5.5 years for a Spaceport-type facility is just excessive...

Jamorobo

May 24th, 2003, 02:01 PM

Geryon: to get Path's weapons when he gives them out, just unzip the files in to a different folder then look through the component text where the new weapons will be and copy them in to the same place in you component text. The n just do the same with the tech area text i'm path has made and changes to it.

THEN post up the new combined comp text so we will all have it therefore making it the latest Version of the text we can build on. (i just like the sound of assault ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

IF: The main thing about construction speed is it is based aLOT on population amount therefore in a new colony with few population construction will take longer, basicly u need to shift loads of population from your homeworld to colonys to get a decient production rate out of them, i can get Shipyards down to 1.6 years on my first non homeworld colony.
I do agree however that this can be slow at times, The main problem with the system at the mo is that the ai can't handle it very well as they rarely move population around so their colonys take a good 70 turns to get anything close to what i get in 30 turns. And since the ai relys on being able to expand and produce quicker that you to make the game a chalange, they ain't pulling it off, Computer on hard with medium bonus and 3 starting planets is still quite easy.

pathfinder

May 24th, 2003, 02:29 PM

assault ships are already made by the AI(breach pods researched, uses heavy destroyer thru cruiser hulls, capture ship strategy.

[ May 24, 2003, 14:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Fyron

May 24th, 2003, 10:44 PM

Then make the pop penalties much les stringent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geryon

May 24th, 2003, 11:41 PM

Thanks for the info Jamorobo, I'll definately be on the lookout for these files once PF finishes them. I'm dying to try out those Light Molecular Slicers for the Omega-X.

For the Breach Pods and other assault ships, those have to be activated (and a few things added to them) so they can work. I have got them ingame but I haven't used them yet so honestly I don't even know if they are working properly...but I think so http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Jamorobo

May 25th, 2003, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Then make the pop penalties much les stringent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Why thank you for volunteering IF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geryon

May 25th, 2003, 02:47 AM

Hey PF, how do I set up a laser to use blue beams such as the light molecular slicers in the Omega-X? Thanks.

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 03:28 AM

Geryon: Not sure which graphic is used. I'll have to check. which ever one is "beam weapon" for the EA. Ahhh...uses pic #103 for the slicer, maybe should be #108.

BTW which class vessel would that advanced plasma EA weapon go into? gonna put it in larger space bases and dreadnought/baseship for now.

[ May 25, 2003, 03:52: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 25th, 2003, 04:59 AM

The trans-pahsed plasma cannons were set on the Warlock according to Tim Earls, Cgi Director of B5. He also stated that those are the same cannons on the Nova.

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 05:06 AM

Soo...down to battleship level.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I should be able to at least post the components.txt and the 2 EA files tommorow/latest Monday.

[ May 25, 2003, 04:10: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 25th, 2003, 05:20 AM

That sounds great man. Thanks for the new weapons, can't wait to use them against the Shadows and a few other misfits causing me trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 05:56 AM

Enjoy:

EA AI Update:
1053834828.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053834828.zip)

B5 Components.txt Update:

1053834897.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053834897.zip)

narf poit chez BOOM

May 25th, 2003, 07:39 AM

jamorobo, cute pic.

Fyron

May 25th, 2003, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by Jamorobo:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Then make the pop penalties much les stringent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Why thank you for volunteering IF http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <hr /></blockquote>http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
What sort of pop curve to we want to change it to?

Suicide Junkie

May 25th, 2003, 08:09 AM

I've got a program to generate pop modifiers... just give me an equation and I'll plug it in.

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 04:03 PM

Why would a neutral with only an AI_General.txt file not have any facilities built on the homeworld and none show up top be built? Blank spaces somewhere in the generic AI files?

[ May 25, 2003, 15:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 11:26 PM

Cascor AI_General.txt file fixed to allow its use as a neutral in B5 MOD (Gold Version):

1053897863.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053897863.zip)

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 11:54 PM

Update for Markab AI_General.tx file to allow them as a B5 Neutral Race:

1053899586.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053899586.zip)

pathfinder

May 25th, 2003, 11:57 PM

One thing that is holding up B5 Nomads is my confusion on techs and components: Are all the required ones available? If not, what is neeeded?

[ May 25, 2003, 22:57: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 26th, 2003, 01:12 AM

Hi PF,

Superb job on the EA Advanced weapons. About the B5 Nomads, I haven't noticed anything missing with them...My Shag'Toth are Nomads and they work fine. Although they don't colonize other worlds, but I thought that's part of the Nomads in the first place isn't it?

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 01:59 AM

Yes, but nomads are supposed to use resource ships/stations, not sure how they expand/take over systems. also, how do they start (base yard to make ships for instance). So they need some kind of start facilities). space-borne education/training facilties, etc

My head hurts: adding some Cascor weapon tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 26, 2003, 01:03: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 26th, 2003, 02:52 AM

LOL, well Suicide Junkie could answer those questions since I believe that is associated with what's used in the Pirates and Nomads mod of his. Send him a PM or E-mail maybe he can clear up your doubts.

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 05:32 AM

Had to add a B5 Nomad Race life support (or change resource ship to not needed that). definitely a challenge playing them!

Geryon

May 26th, 2003, 05:41 AM

Ok so did you find anything wrong or missing in the B5 Nomads? If you did could you tell me what it was so I can put it in?

I already have 3 AIs as B5 Nomads; the Soul Hunters, Raiders and Technomages and if there's anything that needs to be fixed for them I'd like to do it because I'm in the middle of a game with them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 05:52 AM

Yeah, I had to copy paste life support (regular one for B5 Standard Race) to bottom of components.txt. called it B5 Nomadic Race Life support with requirement of B5 Nomadic race (takes place of B5 Standard race).

[ May 26, 2003, 04:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Geryon

May 26th, 2003, 05:57 AM

Thanks, I'll fix that pronto!

Btw, I saw there are bunches of unused component bmps, such as the little dude in the EF uniform, the doctor, the EF Security Officer among others. They looked pretty cool, I activated a few of them instead of using SE 4 standard pics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 26th, 2003, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Yes, but nomads are supposed to use resource ships/stations, not sure how they expand/take over systems. also, how do they start (base yard to make ships for instance). So they need some kind of start facilities). space-borne education/training facilties, etc

My head hurts: adding some Cascor weapon tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Every race gets a home planet to start with...
What the pirates & nomads do, is take their little mini spaceyards on escorts and set up bases to build/refuel/repair/scrap/analyse their ships at.

I hold zero hope of getting a decent Nomadic or Pirate AI. They'd just attack the nearest warship instead of waiting cloaked for a juicy unescorted transport ship.

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 06:29 AM

SJ: couldn't the strategy be set to other than warship...1st choice being unarmed?

hmmm....no Nomad-sized shipyard, smallest atm is 500 kt.

So, I made one ...copied from P & N, just changed the requirement to B5 Nomadic Race

[ May 26, 2003, 06:08: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 04:11 PM

Geryon: Refresh my old man's memory on breaching pods please. Weren't they ejected from a warship to capture another ship (kinda like a purpose-built shuttle/fighter)?

seems to me adding either an ability to the hull or a special component (breaching party/marines). These components would be small (3-5 kt) in size in order to fit the 20kt limit currently in the assault shuttle & breaching pod craft.

assault shuttle I guess would be a planetary assault craft? for small, commando raids.

Trick is to get the AI to use these properly...

[ May 26, 2003, 15:12: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

jimbob

May 26th, 2003, 05:45 PM

Just out of curiosity...

... would it be possible to switch the "B5 Nomadic Race" to plain ol' "Nomadic Race" instead? I personally hope to one day see a cross over mod, and that would simplify things for the (hopeful) eventual fusion.

pathfinder

May 26th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Yes and no: entails a bit of re-write of racial traits which I am not going to do.

Geryon

May 27th, 2003, 12:44 AM

PF: Lol, old man memory.

Yeah breach pods are launched from assault ships to capture enemy ships or stations. Troop Transports have assault shuttles or dropships for planetary assaults.

At the moment I do have breach pods, assault shuttles and normal shuttles installed. But I must admit I am very unsure as to if they work at the moment.

The breach pods and assault shuttles for example should be able to have some sort of troop hold so they can hold their respective commando teams. But fighters (where these ships fall under) do not have any kind of cargo hold at the moment and again have very low tonnage available which means you'd have to pack in a huge amount of breach pods to capture 1 ship and I can't even imagine how many assault shuttles would be needed to secure a planet.

On the other hand, I noticed that currently there are breach pods as weapon components. This is what I pressume the player uses to capture enemy ships. Can't the AI use these breach pod weapons?

Since the breach pods function as weapon components right now and troop transports just drop their troops on planet without a need of a ship to deliver them, I find that the brach pod and assault shuttle don't really serve much purpose ingame, I have no idea what Val was thinking of doing with them. Unless the comp doesn't use breach pod weapons or drop off its troops for assaults, the breach pod/assault shuttle ship isn't really necessary, though I would like to find a use for them.

If you can think of something, let me know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW, the Pirates and Nomads mod has a boarding party component if you are looking for one for reference.

[ May 26, 2003, 23:47: Message edited by: Geryon ]

AGoetz

May 27th, 2003, 04:42 AM

My understanding from the current PBW Version is that you install the breech pod componenets on your ships and assign them capture ship orders - works for me anyway. The AI will use them when it designs Ship Capture hulls.

Raiders and Gaim have their own Versions that are better than the standard component available to the other races. (The Gaim one may not be in the current PBW Version, will have to check).

pathfinder

May 27th, 2003, 05:00 AM

Geryon: Yeah, the current method of ship using breach pods as a weapon is right on. Me not sure what Val was thinking of doing with the "fighter" Version of breach pod. or the assault shuttle. the assault ships do just fine in planetary landings http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron

May 30th, 2003, 12:52 AM

Some nice random B5-related links:

http://www.b5mods.com/site/news.htm
http://www.tgu.org.uk/Users/darkage/darkagesite/indexmain.html

Timstone

June 3rd, 2003, 02:20 PM

Hi all!

This is me from Poland where the weather is really freaky. In the beginning of the week we've had very warm weather and now it's sucky sucky weather. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Ah well, at least I found a internet connection.

I didn't have had any time to spend on the B5 Mod 2.0, but soon I will try to find some time again. Sorry, work is pressing me.

Jimbob: I'll try to correct that (as I stated in my PM).

All: Keep up the good work, till soon!

HVD

June 3rd, 2003, 07:09 PM

Hi,
This is probably a stupid newb question, but when I try to run B5mod in SEIV gold, I get an error message saying that many fields are missing from settings.txt

I was wondering if anyone new how to fix this problem, thanks.

Fyron

June 3rd, 2003, 07:11 PM

You are trying to use the 1.49 Version of the mod in Gold. Search back in this thread a few pages to a post by Pathfinder for a link to the Gold conVersion of the mod.

jimbob

June 3rd, 2003, 07:52 PM

Timstone: Oh yeah? Well PM you buddy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

HVD

June 3rd, 2003, 11:31 PM

Thanks a lot, IF! It works now

Hmm, this is odd. I'm playing as the Earth Alliance, and according to Components.txt I should be able to put Ion Bolt I on my ships once i have researched Ion Weapons level 1 and Gen. Light weapons level 1. I have got Ion Weapons level 9 and have maxed out General Tiny/Light/Medium/Heavy and EA Tiny/Light/medium/Heavy/Mega and I still cant add any weapons at all to my ships or bases. i also have Particle 9 Matter 3 and Molecular 2, and nothing.

What's going on? Help, please

[ June 03, 2003, 22:34: Message edited by: HVD ]

pathfinder

June 4th, 2003, 02:31 AM

When you set up the EA did you already have a .emp (empire file) or did you "add new" to start the game? if you did the "add new" you need to make sure you add BOTH Earth Alliance Race AND B5 Standard Race in the advanced traits area. or nothing will show up..

other than that, me not sure what happening..

HVD

June 4th, 2003, 03:51 PM

it is, and im using the matryx launcher to run it. i can research everything except weapons; i can get armor, jump tech, everything. Also, when I research any weapons tech, it says "none" under Expected Results

[ June 04, 2003, 15:02: Message edited by: HVD ]

HVD

June 4th, 2003, 04:01 PM

Hmm, i think I've found the problem. i was using the components.txt that came with the gold mod, but i replcaed the parts dealing with armor with the new armor definitions posted a few pages back. When I tried a new game with the original components.txt without the armor changes, it worked fine.

Very odd

Suicide Junkie

June 4th, 2003, 04:14 PM

Those new armor definitions are just supposed to be cut & pasted over the old armor in the components.txt file...

I didn't include the whole components.txt cause its huge, and there were probably changes to other components by other people.

HVD

June 4th, 2003, 05:09 PM

That's what I did duder, and it broke my weapons. I'm investigting further

Suicide Junkie

June 4th, 2003, 06:27 PM

Watch out for double blank lines... they'll be treated as an end-of-file. (Useful for debugging)

HVD

June 4th, 2003, 08:45 PM

That's exactly what it was, a big fat double-blank line right after Emissive Armor VI. Thanks a lot duder, I appreciate it.

oleg

June 4th, 2003, 09:26 PM

How do you define "duder" ? I know (or just think know ) who is a dude. But duder ? somebody who makes dudes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

HVD

June 4th, 2003, 09:34 PM

A duder is a dude... I guess. I dunno really, I just made it up/picked it up

jimbob

June 4th, 2003, 11:10 PM

... duuude.

HVD

June 5th, 2003, 01:14 AM

I created a new race, but the only difference was that I unchecked the psychic race option and took propulsion experts instead. Also, I checked the other races, and none of them can build weapons either, and they all use emp files that came with the mod.

maybe it has something to do with my components.txt?

pathfinder

June 5th, 2003, 01:19 AM

B5 MOD is supposed to be loaded in its own folder with its own components file.

[ June 04, 2003, 12:19: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

HVD

June 5th, 2003, 03:00 AM

look man, I don't know where your car is

Sukerkin

June 5th, 2003, 10:26 PM

After finally getting my hands on the Gold update for this stupendous mod I've put in a couple of hours of play ... it's just like being a beginner all over again as I have no idea what order to research things in, what bit of tech does what etc etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

However (and I hesitate to bring this up as it seems churlish given the immense amount of effort that's gone into this), I've come across a few niggles and I wonder if they've been brought up before or if it's the result of something I've broken when I installed the files?

Firstly, the Gold update 'patch' has an error in the Minbari Scout entry in the DesignCreation.txt file; the text for Default Strategy was 'Maximum Weapon Range' rather than 'Weapons'. Every time I ended a turn this scolding dialogue would come up about an invalid entry - luckily it was specific about where it was so it was easy enough to fix.

Secondly, in the star map that I generated for the game, several systems have no name (and of course neither do the planets in those systems). No exactly a fatal flaw but a bit odd.

Thirdly, when you're in the Ship Design 'forms' the info box for the Ion Bolt weapons loses the text for Abilities at the bottom - it looks as if something is overlaying it and obscuring the words.

Fourthly, trying to use the Tech Areas part of the Technology Tree viewer (but not the Tech Levels strangely) causes an Access Violation in SE4.exe. Plus, you can't Export the tables for viewing outside the game (again, no problem with the Tech Levels).

An extra wrinkle is that if you use the page-up/down keys rather than the scroll bar then this happens much less. I found a text error under the Advanced Planetary Weapons entry in techareas.txt ('Balistic Weapons' rather than 'Ballistic') which I thought might be the cause but it wasn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .

I hope you chaps who worked on this don't take this as whiny criticism as I'm immensely impressed by what you've done. So any help or hints you can give on how to cure these minor ills would be much appreciated.

[ June 05, 2003, 21:57: Message edited by: Sukerkin ]

Fyron

June 6th, 2003, 02:42 AM

Secondly, in the star map that I generated for the game, several systems have no name (and of course neither do the planets in those systems). No exactly a fatal flaw but a bit odd.

Check SystemNames.txt in the B5 mod data folder. If it has fewer names than the number of systems the map generates, it will make systems with no name. Do you have the B5 mod systemnames file, or the normal one? I forget how many names are in it, but it should have enough.

HVD

June 6th, 2003, 11:39 AM

Something i like to do is copy and paste the MOO3 system name list into the SEIV list, this extends the list enough that you will never need to worry about nameless systems.

pathfinder

June 6th, 2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Sukerkin:

Firstly, the Gold update 'patch' has an error in the Minbari Scout entry in the DesignCreation.txt file; the text for Default Strategy was 'Maximum Weapon Range' rather than 'Weapons'. Every time I ended a turn this scolding dialogue would come up about an invalid entry - luckily it was specific about where it was so it was easy enough to fix.

Thirdly, when you're in the Ship Design 'forms' the info box for the Ion Bolt weapons loses the text for Abilities at the bottom - it looks as if something is overlaying it and obscuring the words.

Fourthly, trying to use the Tech Areas part of the Technology Tree viewer (but not the Tech Levels strangely) causes an Access Violation in SE4.exe. Plus, you can't Export the tables for viewing outside the game (again, no problem with the Tech Levels).

An extra wrinkle is that if you use the page-up/down keys rather than the scroll bar then this happens much less. I found a text error under the Advanced Planetary Weapons entry in techareas.txt ('Balistic Weapons' rather than 'Ballistic') which I thought might be the cause but it wasn't http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif .
1: Have not seen that kind of error in a while so whenever I put out the next beta that should be fixed.

2: A number of weapons have that. no idea what causes it and is not fixable as far as I am concerned. this would, if I am not mistaken, need code work and I don't know how to do that.

3: Never seen that...since it is an access violation again probably needs code work and I am not up to that.

and don't feel bad about *****ing about error. only way I find out about them is by someone telling me.

Sukerkin

June 6th, 2003, 02:23 PM

Thanks for the responses chaps, very much appreciated and I'm glad I didn't upset you with what might have been perceived as 'nit-picking' errors.

IF, I think that I've got the right SystemNames.txt files installed, as Last night one of my scouts flew into Zha'Ha'Dum ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif !

When I started the game tho' I generated a large map (to give me a chance of not running into someone until I'd figured out what I was doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) so it's probably just that there're too many systems.

Pathfinder, it's a shame that those little flaws appear to be down to the base code of SE4 and so aren't readily curable. Still, they're only small irritations rather than game wrecking bugs so it's a credit to the work of you and the team that they're all the problems to be seen of late http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Much kudos to you gentlemen ... now all I need is a manual/strategy guide for the myriad facilities and technological devices :lol:!

pathfinder

June 7th, 2003, 12:07 AM

Sukerkin: Hehe, I need one of those strategy guides too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I only bits and pieces of the AI, so I need help wading through all that is there..

Sukerkin

June 9th, 2003, 03:37 AM

Hi Pathfinder

I assume from that, that the documentation for the mod is in fairly standard condition for a software project then :lol:.

As you were kind enough not to mind when I reported those little 'bugs' I discovered, I hope that your patience will continue as, after a couple of days play now, I've found a few more.

1) I don't know if this is generally true as it's the only ship size I've put this many engines on so far but if you try to put more than 42 engines (Advanced Fusion III's in this case) onto the Large Repair Tug then the Movement drops to zero.

2) The level 3 facilities for Manufacturing Colony, Homeworld Hub and Colony Hub don't appear once you've attained the prerequisite technologies (B5 Standard race and Industry II).

3) If you upgrade a Base Space Yard then it exceeds the size limit as it seems to add an extra 50kT from somewhere. You have to manually remove the Space Yard component and re-add it.

Again, these are nothing major (tho' the level 3 facilities not showing up was a bit of a downer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) and I'm enjoying playing the mod a great deal.

I do have a fair number of questions about what particular components and facilities do in conjunction with each other but I don't want to clutter up an already large thread with them.

Is it worth opening up a new discussion for technical questions or anomaly reporting on the B5 Mod do you think?

Suicide Junkie

June 9th, 2003, 03:45 AM

As for #1, that is a limitation in SE4...
Maximum 255 points, after which it wraps around to 0 again.

Basically, think of it as the maximum engines the ship can support...
If you really need to go faster, use a smaller hull (less mass means the same thrust(#engines) moves it faster)

#3 Is, I believe, a family number problem. Hitting upgrade makes it use the ship yard instead of the base yard or vice versa.

pathfinder

June 9th, 2003, 04:00 AM

Sukerkin: No, go ahead and post your questions for B5 here.

As for #2: Val kept dropping those techs out each time he did a new Version. I guess when I finish the next one, I'll add them back.

[ June 09, 2003, 03:02: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Starcrusade

June 9th, 2003, 05:00 AM

Well I realize that it is available somewhere (even in this thread), but I've been unable to find an up-to-date Version of the mod. I am having un-imaginable trouble with the Version I do have (the multiple downloads from the Malfador Mod list).

If it is at all possible I would appreciate it if someone could direct me to a place where I can find the data files at least or the full mod if possible.

pathfinder

June 9th, 2003, 05:11 AM

Starcrusade: Gold or pre-Gold Version?

One place to go is:

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

Data files for B5 Gold:

1055128545.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055128545.zip)

[ June 09, 2003, 04:16: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Starcrusade

June 9th, 2003, 06:42 AM

Hey Thanks, those data files fixed most of the problems. For some reason the files I downloaded didn't have proper component and setting files. I managed to get the settings updated by myself, but the components had a couple hundrederrors it was reporting, I didn't have the desire to fix that.

By the way that is the website I originally downloaded it from.

Thanks again.

Fyron

June 9th, 2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by HVD:
Something i like to do is copy and paste the MOO3 system name list into the SEIV list, this extends the list enough that you will never need to worry about nameless systems.Check out FQM (linked in my sig). It has 56,068 system names in it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

If you want to better understand the quasi-newtonian propulsion model (which B5 Mod uses), check out ~Chapter 17~ (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~kazharii/ModdingTutorial.html#Chapter17) in SE4 Modding 101.

[ June 09, 2003, 06:00: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

pathfinder

June 9th, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Starcrusade:
Hey Thanks, those data files fixed most of the problems. For some reason the files I downloaded didn't have proper component and setting files. I managed to get the settings updated by myself, but the components had a couple hundrederrors it was reporting, I didn't have the desire to fix that.

By the way that is the website I originally downloaded it from.

Thanks again.What you had then was the pre-Gold and using it with Gold. My guess is that the rest of your errors are from the AI's not have the proper Gold statements in them.

[ June 09, 2003, 11:14: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Timstone

June 13th, 2003, 04:39 PM

Hi all!

A quicky. How do the restrictions and the requirements work in the Racialtraits.txt?
I tried filling in the name of the requirements (like: Crystallurgy, requirement: Temporal and restricted: Organic), but it didn't work. I could sellect Crystallurgy and Organic at the same time with no problemmo. Also the program didn't complained when I sellected Crystallurgy first and the Temporal. Hope you guys can point me in the right direction. Oh yeah, how many restrictions can be given? Val had 33 restrictions, but I need a few more.

pathfinder

June 14th, 2003, 03:16 AM

Timstone: I really do not have a clue. Sorry.

Fyron

June 15th, 2003, 01:32 AM

A quicky. How do the restrictions and the requirements work in the Racialtraits.txt?
They do not work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

grumbler

June 15th, 2003, 03:29 AM

Okay guys, I am back after 3 months without a computer (bad crash, ended up having to replace the whole thing).

I am catching up fast on what has been going on in my absence, and anxious to get into some work.

What needs to be analyzed/modded? PF, need anything done from your end (other than graphics, which I cannot do)?

pathfinder

June 15th, 2003, 04:11 AM

Grumbler: Nothing that I know of.

YIKES! I was hoping to make a single zipped file of the MOD but the folder is 160 + MB!

Timstone

June 15th, 2003, 12:15 PM

PF: Hehe... welcome to the world of huge bytes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

IF: Would you like to redo the sensors too? Just the way you did the armor? Excelent job of the armor by the way. Two thumbs up!

Edit: Oh yeah, I'll give the list of races and advanced options I've done (you see them in the Advanced Traits section when creating a new race).

Jimbob: Note the change of B5 Ancient Race to Ancient Race, B5 Standard Race to Standard Race and B5 Nomadic Race to Nomadic Race. In order to do it, I had to change Ancient Race (sees the whole galaxy at start of the game) to Ancient Travelling Race. Hope you like it.

Advanced Power Conservation
Advanced Storage Techniques
Ancient Travelling Race
Emotionless
Hardy Industrialists
Lucky
Mechanoids
Natural Merchants
Propulsion Experts
Ancient Race
Nomadic Race
Standard Race
Abbai
Belt Alliance
Brakiri
Cascor
Centauri
Descari
Dilgar
Drakh
Drazi
Earth Alliance
Gaim
Grome
Hurr
Hyach
Ipsha
Kirishiac
Llort
Lumati
Markab
Minbari
Mindrider
Moradi
Narn
Orieni
Pak'ma'ra
Raiders
Shadow
Shag'Toth (Soul Hunters)
Sh'Lassa
Streib
Technomage
Third Space Aliens
Torata
Torvalus
Triad Chaos
Triad Combined
Triad Neutrality
Triad Order
Vorlon
Vree
Walkers of Sigma 957
Yolu

[ June 15, 2003, 11:26: Message edited by: Timstone ]

grumbler

June 15th, 2003, 02:45 PM

I have resumed a several-months-old game as the Centauri and have noticed something I didn't see before. It may be a glitch, or it may be that I am just behind on a problem that was already solved.

None of the races seem to build spaceports under the AI!

Now some races are natural merchants and don't need them (but then they also don't get Homeworld hubs at the start of the game, which produces an almost-crippling lack of intel points early on, especially against the Vorlons or Shadows), but other just don't build them at all.

I tried going back and adding the trait "Scanner Jammer" to the trading port facility (and also made the TP facility family 1102 so that the AI wouldn't try to build manufacturing plants when it was still too early) and since scanner jammer was required by all the resource colony types but not yet used, and this seems to have no effect, even when I restarted the game.

Any clues? Anyone else encounter this?

grumbler

June 15th, 2003, 02:48 PM

Also, I am curious if anyone else thinks the engine system needs an overhaul?

I have modded engines for my own use, increasing the size of the engines to make the larger ships less impossible to design/calculate reactor requirments for, but was wondering if anyone else thinks that the whole system needs and overhaul to reduce choices and make the ship design sequence a bit more intuitive? If not, I will just use my mods for me and leave the topic alone on the board.

pathfinder

June 15th, 2003, 03:45 PM

Grumbler: Don't care one way or the other myself. Don't have a clue as to how to do it. Hope what you do doesn't break other things that I did to get rid of the RCE's.

[ June 15, 2003, 14:46: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

June 15th, 2003, 03:45 PM

Oh and bTW Grumbler....Spaceports are an "ability" of trading Posts, colony hubs and manufacturing colonies. There are no separate space ports.

[ June 15, 2003, 14:51: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

grumbler

June 15th, 2003, 05:27 PM

Sorry, PF, I meant to have the AI built Trading Posts without having to change any AI files.

Turns out the AI will build TP as the second facility when you add "scanner jammer" as an ability to TP and also (this is what I forgot to do) change the number of abilities to 10! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

They only do this, of course, if there is no SP cabability already in the system.

As for the engines, I don't propose any changes in the basic system (which I like a lot) just in the numbers of engines needed to reach a given speed. In other words, do things like double every value so that one new engine does the work of two old ones (and maybe have some quad-sized engines so the old Agamamnon has more like 4 engines as in the series rather than 16!)

One thing we might want to consider at some point is having single "reactor" tech rather than the four we have now. It clutter up the ship design ccreen to have obsolete components presented, which seems inevitable with the seperate techs. However, that would change the AI_Research files, so we don't wanna do it until we are changing them for somethning else anyway.

[ June 15, 2003, 16:31: Message edited by: grumbler ]

Timstone

June 15th, 2003, 05:32 PM

Hmm... Grumbler, that is an excelent idea! Yes, I like it, why didn't I thought about that! Hmm... I'll implement it into 2.0. Thanks for the idea.

Edit: Ehh... you don't mind when I use your idea and implent it into 2.0? Hope not.

[ June 15, 2003, 16:33: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Suicide Junkie

June 15th, 2003, 05:41 PM

As for the engines, I don't propose any changes in the basic system (which I like a lot) just in the numbers of engines needed to reach a given speed. In other words, do things like double every value so that one new engine does the work of two old ones (and maybe have some quad-sized engines so the old Agamamnon has more like 4 engines as in the series rather than 16!)Doubling the engine thrust will cause problems with the 255 MP limit.
Halving the Engines-per-move of all the hulls would prevent that problem, but would give you some rounding errors.

I took over as a replacement in the B5mod game on PBW, and I think the speeds are perfectly fine as is...

I have 5 MP warships, and 13(!) MP scouts.
I'm pretty sure the speed scale of this game is intentional, and quite fair.

Also, considering the speed of colony development, having slow warship speeds is a very good idea IMO.

Timstone

June 15th, 2003, 05:47 PM

Hmm... maybe I was too fast on your idea Grumbler. Let us consider.

Q: Why do we have all the reactors in different flavours?
A: Well, you need different tech for each one of them.
Q: Why not put them into one big group?
A: Well, not every reactor is the same. One reactor might have a greater energy output, but is also a bit larger than it's predecessor. That way you have to make a choice between energy and tonnage-efficiency.

Maybe the idea to put them into one big group wasn't good idea after all. Hmm... I'm abit confused wether this might be a good idea or not. I mean, it's easier to put them into one group, but it's also a bit more clumsier to pick the right one for the job. I sometimes use older types of reactor even when I have newer reactors at my disposal. It's also more difficult for us to sort out which reactor is better than the one before (you must give the computer a clue which one is the weakest and which one is the best). Please people give your opinion on this interesting idea.

Edit: Ehh.. I might have made a little booboo. I asked IF to redo the sensors, but it was actually SJ who did an outstanding job on his armor. So, SJ, would you like to redo the sensors too? Sorry for the little confusion, my apologies.

[ June 15, 2003, 16:49: Message edited by: Timstone ]

pathfinder

June 15th, 2003, 06:19 PM

The different reactors are basically to be somewhat "canon" and to give some differentiation (having all races with same old same old, well gets old...quick.

Suicide Junkie

June 15th, 2003, 09:22 PM

So, SJ, would you like to redo the sensors too? Sorry for the little confusion, my apologies.What changes were you looking for, anyways?

Timstone

June 15th, 2003, 11:04 PM

Well, make them a little bit more understandable for the mere mortal like me. I don't really understand anything of the sensors the way they are now. You did a hell of a job on the armor (even I get it now), maybe you could something simillar to the sensors too?

grumbler

June 16th, 2003, 12:43 AM

Timstone: I would like to work with you on this 2.0 mod, if I could. Maybe another forum or even a yahoo egroup would be better than confusing this effort even more, but I like the idea of taking what is here and "rationalizing" it in some ways that cannot be done without causing unexpected faults in what is a workable system right now.

SJ: What I meant was to double even component "hull" sizes when doubling output, so that the effect is identical, but yet i don't have to count to figure out whether I have 23 or 24 of these 5 kt engines on my battleship so as to make the total energy requirements work out.

The next effect would be zero, except that ships would lose their speeds due to damage in a less smooth curve. It also wouldn't take three times as long to refit a ship as to build it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

TS: I have founf that when playing the game I actually only research the final stages in the existing reactor techs when I need something for a battleship. It is actually easier to get gravimetric reactors than A-M ones, and in general gravimetrics are better (though the small reactor is exactly like the small A-G one except more expensive).

If you want to keep some reactors out of the hands of some of the races, it should be trivial to add racial (i.e Ancient) requirements to the reactors themselves rather than to the techs needed to research them.

In fact, if you do things the way I envision, the ancients can do the same research that leads to, say, Fusion reactors for the younger races but get ancient ones instead. I mean, who believes that the ancients didn't have fusion reactors after a million years anyway!

On the issue of the sensors and ECM: the existing system seems to me to be quite intuitive and elegant. They are one of the few areas I would leave exactly as is, given my druthers (except that maybe the basic sensors get too expensive reletive to the extended and elite ones, but I haven't done the research to say for sure that this is true, and I expect SJ has!).

Timstone, if you look back at maybe January or February's Posts, SJ explained the whole thing rather nicely. It's basically a system of diminishing returns with the additional types of sensors, designed to restrict them to the hulls that can afford the space.

[ June 16, 2003, 01:06: Message edited by: grumbler ]

pathfinder

June 16th, 2003, 02:00 AM

Suggestions on how to get a decent, simple upload for those who want to play/use the B5 Gold MOD. The pictures folder is the hang-up. Simply too big and looks like (to me atm) that I'll have to load each race individually (bleah!).

I have WinZip V 8.1.

grumbler

June 16th, 2003, 02:05 AM

I think there are some free "zip" programs that are better at "crunching" graphics files than good ol' winzip.

I will have to do some research to confirm this, though. Anyone have the answer off the top of their heads?

pathfinder

June 16th, 2003, 02:17 AM

Not interested in another program. Just a simple methodolgy so that folks will have a simple way to d/l the MOD.

[ June 16, 2003, 01:19: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Timstone

June 16th, 2003, 09:24 PM

Grumbler: Thanks for the advise, but I'll continue alone on the mod untill I have some good idea how to give people (who want to) a clear and simple job. Sorry, be patient a little longer. In about two weeks I have full time again to continue on the mod. But thanks anyway for the enthusiasm, greatly apreciated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Timstone

June 16th, 2003, 10:07 PM

Hmm... we still have the biggest thread, but the Ice cream thread is closing in rappidly. We have to do something about this guys.
Come on, post like maniacs! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

pathfinder

June 16th, 2003, 11:56 PM

IF:In response to your e-mail and the 1.49 MOD and PBW: A very slow game to say the least. Not sure that it is condusive to enjoyable play. This is my first PBW so I have no other experiences to compare it to.

jimbob

June 17th, 2003, 12:02 AM

Mostly I'm posting to keep us ahead of the ice cream thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PF: I've only played a handful of PBW games as well, but they were all running considerably faster than this one. I think only proportions is much slower in terms of R&D.

Still loving it though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Especially now that we're back on track with the game turns.

Rambie

June 17th, 2003, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
IF:In response to your e-mail and the 1.49 MOD and PBW: A very slow game to say the least. Not sure that it is condusive to enjoyable play...I haven't played any other MODs, but I have played many multiplayer SE4 games.

I agree that this is a very slow game, only my first colonies have managed to build ONLY 1 facility each...

I know you want a game that's more realistic in colony building, but I feel this is way to slow. As it is, your homeworld(s) are all you effectivly have for the entire game.

Suicide Junkie

June 17th, 2003, 04:33 AM

As it is, your homeworld(s) are all you effectivly have for the entire game.Which, really, is how it should be according to B5...

Although, ISTM that there should be some allowance for slow construction ships earlier on.

You could use the "builds with only two resources" trick, or just limit the build rate of base yards as well.

Fyron

June 17th, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by pathfinder:
Not interested in another program. Just a simple methodolgy so that folks will have a simple way to d/l the MOD.WinRAR (at www.rarlabs.com) (http://www.rarlabs.com)) makes Zip files that WinZip can open up just fine that are much smaller than WinZip can make them. I suggest you use it to make the zips.

Timstone

June 17th, 2003, 10:43 AM

I've posted this before. But there was no reaction, so I'll post it again.

SJ: Well, make them a little bit more understandable for the mere mortal like me. I don't really understand anything of the sensors the way they are now. You did a hell of a job on the armor (even I get it now), maybe you could something simillar to the sensors too?

Suicide Junkie

June 17th, 2003, 07:10 PM

Well, simply, one of each type will stack.

1) Start with the basic sensors/ECM... they're almost always worthwhile, except on civilian ships.
2) Then consider the advanced sensors/ECM... decide whether it is worthwhile to spend 10kt (or 20 for both) of space to get 8% (or whatever level you have) more combat bonus...
3) If you decided to add the advanced, then take a look at the 3rd level sensors/ECM... is it worth spending yet another 10 or 20 kt for an even smaller combat bonus?

Timstone

June 17th, 2003, 07:46 PM

Quote form SJ:
is it worth spending yet another 10 or 20 kt for an even smaller combat bonus?

?Que? More space for less bonus? What the... I don't get it.

Timstone

June 17th, 2003, 08:55 PM

Ehh... oeps. I think I lost the sensors. Damn, I erased them all. And no, I don't have a spare copy with me here in the Czech Republic. Could someone be so kind to send me all the sensors?
Tjeez, I feel stupid now. Hope you guys can help me out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Suicide Junkie

June 17th, 2003, 08:57 PM

You start with say, 40%/0% (ECM/Sensor modifiers)

If you spend 20kt for basic components, you can get that up to, say 60%/20%

If you spend 40kt for both basic and advanced, you get up to maybe 50%/30%
(10%/10% MORE, for 10kt more)

And if you spend 60kt for all 3 classes, you could get 55%/35%
(5%/5% more, for 20kt more space)
IE, less of a boost for the second and third addons... diminishing returns, you see?

Timstone

June 17th, 2003, 09:24 PM

Yes, now I see. Thank you for enlightening me oh, ye Great Knower of All. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Ehh... hope someone has time to upload the sensors for me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Sukerkin

June 17th, 2003, 10:19 PM

Hi again Pathfinder

I'm now reaching the closing stages of my first B5 game - it's been a long haul but generally speaking very entertaining.

Fathoming out the tech's has been a game in itself as I deliberately didn't read through the data files in detail to find out what research lead to which devices; that meant that I went up a few blind alleys before the scientist types sheepishly owned up that they'd wasted all the funding I gave them :lol:!

A few oddities have shown themselves as the games progressed and I have a couple of more general Queries too:

1) Anti-Matter engines and reactors didn't show up in the 'available kit' list when designing ships until I developed the engines up to Prototype V - then they suddenly popped into existence. The technologies would be reported as discovered in the 'start of turn' news but they were nowhere to be found - curious.

2) Multi-warhead missiles don't seem to be able to target seekers - I wonder if this is because they're not actually Point Defence weapons?

3) Only Jump Drive I seems to be available, no matter how many tech levels you develop in it - is this a deliberate restriction or simply that the other stages aren't in the Components file yet?

4) There are no pictures for War-Stations, which gave SE4 a headache when I tried to build one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I transplanted a suitable pic and all was fine again but it would be nice if a race specific image was available (I don't have the artistic skill to do this for myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif !).

5) Despite there being a tech tree for them, there aren't any Advanced Matter Weapons - this was one of the 'blind alleys' I spoke about earlier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

6) I can understand the reasoning behind Ionic Weapons giving a negative bonus to ships with crews but I'm not sure that it makes sense for them also to give a minus when fitted to satellites (tho' I suppose it's possible to argue that as the satellite is so small the radiation has a negative impact on it's electronics).

7) The "One Space Yard per planet" restriction works fine in the un-modded game but it was an unpleasant surprise in the B5 mod to find out that once I'd built a Space Yard III on an outpost I couldn't then construct an Advanced Military base (which had been the whole point of founding the colony). It might be an idea to put a little warning message on the Space Yard to let players know in advance that this restriction is in effect.

As before, don't take these minor niggles as nagging criticism - it's a great mod you chaps have developed with a lot of interesting ideas that take the game in whole new directions. I hope you take my comments in the spirit they're intended i.e. a form of play-testing report.

One Last question ... I understand the concept of 'leaky armour' inherent in the mod and think it's another one of those good ideas the mod's stacked full of ... but ... isn't it a bit too leaky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ? I was going up against Destroyers (with fairly puny particle weapons) in Battle Cruisers with maxed out Refractive Armor and was getting big holes shot in my ships!

I guess I was just surprised that the armour was so ineffective and surmise that I must have been doing something wrong on the design front. I was mixing up the various flavours (i.e. Primary, Alternate and Addtional) as well as including ten or twenty units of Structural Supports - does that have a negative impact on the efficiency of the protection? Or did I have unrealstic expectations of how much protection the amounts I fitted (five or six 'slabs') would afford me?

Any clues from the designers as to how to properly construct the 'armour belt' for ships will be gratefully received http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

pathfinder

June 18th, 2003, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Sukerkin:
Hi again Pathfinder

I'm now reaching the closing stages of my first B5 game - it's been a long haul but generally speaking very entertaining.

Fathoming out the tech's has been a game in itself as I deliberately didn't read through the data files in detail to find out what research lead to which devices; that meant that I went up a few blind alleys before the scientist types sheepishly owned up that they'd wasted all the funding I gave them :lol:!

A few oddities have shown themselves as the games progressed and I have a couple of more general Queries too:

1) Anti-Matter engines and reactors didn't show up in the 'available kit' list when designing ships until I developed the engines up to Prototype V - then they suddenly popped into existence. The technologies would be reported as discovered in the 'start of turn' news but they were nowhere to be found - curious.

Methinks this is because there are some components (weapons, engines, et al) that start at say lvl 3 or 4 or somefink. not sure why, but I have not bothered to change that (big headache to reverse-eingineer so to speak).

2) Multi-warhead missiles don't seem to be able to target seekers - I wonder if this is because they're not actually Point Defence weapons?

I'll have to check the description, so I'll have to get abck with you on this one.

3) Only Jump Drive I seems to be available, no matter how many tech levels you develop in it - is this a deliberate restriction or simply that the other stages aren't in the Components file yet?

Yeah, only 1 level developed so far...

4) There are no pictures for War-Stations, which gave SE4 a headache when I tried to build one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . I transplanted a suitable pic and all was fine again but it would be nice if a race specific image was available (I don't have the artistic skill to do this for myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif !).

Yeah, me slowly adding something resembling them. me thinks warstaion should be warbase or vice versa...

5) Despite there being a tech tree for them, there aren't any Advanced Matter Weapons - this was one of the 'blind alleys' I spoke about earlier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Yeah, another tech tree unfinished (or maybe not going to be there...not sure).

6) I can understand the reasoning behind Ionic Weapons giving a negative bonus to ships with crews but I'm not sure that it makes sense for them also to give a minus when fitted to satellites (tho' I suppose it's possible to argue that as the satellite is so small the radiation has a negative impact on it's electronics).

Me head is hurtin' now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif dunno, most of the wepon stuff was before my start doing the AI...

7) The "One Space Yard per planet" restriction works fine in the un-modded game but it was an unpleasant surprise in the B5 mod to find out that once I'd built a Space Yard III on an outpost I couldn't then construct an Advanced Military base (which had been the whole point of founding the colony). It might be an idea to put a little warning message on the Space Yard to let players know in advance that this restriction is in effect.

If I remember I'll add some kinda warning in the description. When I can get to it that is...

As before, don't take these minor niggles as nagging criticism - it's a great mod you chaps have developed with a lot of interesting ideas that take the game in whole new directions. I hope you take my comments in the spirit they're intended i.e. a form of play-testing report.

no biggy, I didn't start out doing the AI but was just testing the MOD but when no one came forward to help Val Last summer...I did some race sets, then some basic AI, then....

One Last question ... I understand the concept of 'leaky armour' inherent in the mod and think it's another one of those good ideas the mod's stacked full of ... but ... isn't it a bit too leaky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ? I was going up against Destroyers (with fairly puny particle weapons) in Battle Cruisers with maxed out Refractive Armor and was getting big holes shot in my ships!

Only leaky I understand is when I drink too much beer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I guess I was just surprised that the armour was so ineffective and surmise that I must have been doing something wrong on the design front. I was mixing up the various flavours (i.e. Primary, Alternate and Addtional) as well as including ten or twenty units of Structural Supports - does that have a negative impact on the efficiency of the protection? Or did I have unrealstic expectations of how much protection the amounts I fitted (five or six 'slabs') would afford me?

Dunno, my fleets are always prepared to die since I stink at strategy (and ship design)....

Any clues from the designers as to how to properly construct the 'armour belt' for ships will be gratefully received http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .Yeah, I know, hard to read my answers in the middle of the quote...so sue me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 17, 2003, 23:26: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

June 18th, 2003, 01:19 AM

I guess I was just surprised that the armour was so ineffective and surmise that I must have been doing something wrong on the design front. I was mixing up the various flavours (i.e. Primary, Alternate and Addtional) as well as including ten or twenty units of Structural Supports - does that have a negative impact on the efficiency of the protection? Or did I have unrealstic expectations of how much protection the amounts I fitted (five or six 'slabs') would afford me?Well, first of all, structural supports are just that... since they have fewer hitpoints than most of your components, they are usually hit LAST.
As the description says, though, this can hold the ship together...
If the enemies aren't careful, they'll probably waste shots attacking the dead hulk...

For moderate to small ships, you probably only want the "Primary" Passive Armor, and possibly a second for cruisers.
It gives you some crystalline ability, so you'll take less damage from each hit, but dosen't provide the "bulk"...

You will want to bulk up using inert armor for more solid protection
(the crystalline effect will reduce incoming fire, the inert armor can protect the internals from the rest)

In general, the Heavier the armor, the better.
Even though it has a lower hitpoints per size ratio, the heavy stuff absorbs a greater % of the shots, letting less damage leak into the critical components.
Of course, if your ships are getting vaporized in one volley by large fleets, try lighter armor, for the added hitpoints. Your ship will still be a writeoff, but it will distract the enemies longer.
In small combats, heavy armor is better because your weapons and engines will remain intact longer, allowing you to dish out more damage.

-----
For inert armor;
Light armor = more total hitpoints
Medium armor = average all around.
Heavy armor = more protection to critical systems.

Structural supports are a special case past the extreme-light end of the spectrum... They have infinite hitpoints per KT space, but provide basically no protection to internals.

Passive armor reduces the incoming damage, but can't do all the protecting on its own... think of it as multiplying the hitpoints of your inert armor by a few percentage points.
EG: if your passive armor totals 5 CA points, and your enemy's guns do 20 damage, your inert armor will effectively have 30% more hitpoints.

PS:
And don't bother expecting to not get holes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
With armor, the holes will just be smaller; in combat, anyone who is hit will bleed.

[ June 18, 2003, 00:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Lighthorse

June 18th, 2003, 04:29 AM

Imperator Fyron,

I need your assistance in emailing me a copy of my Narn empire file and anything else that I will need to stay in the B5 campaign. My computer bio were conrupted Last week, and lost it all. I got SE4 1.49 up and operating B5 mod OK. Tried downloading my Lastest turn from PBW, but the SE4 wouldn't access those saved files.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide
Lighthorse

Fyron

June 18th, 2003, 04:43 AM

Well... this probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but this is a zip file of my B5 Mod folder (so it works with the PBW game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ):
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1052175132.zip

If you don't want to download all of that again, I can upload a zip of just the Data folder.

Timstone

June 18th, 2003, 02:27 PM

Phew... I found a copy of the sensors on my laptop. Jehaa! We're back into business. Today is a slow day. I think I can spare some time to work on 2.0. Yes, live is good with this kind of weather.

At the moment I'm sitting on the balcony of my hotelroom. Beside me is a nice beer and above me shines the sun. I'm overlooking Prague and I'm enjoying the company of my good (and willing) girlfriend. Yes... live is good on days like this. Czechia rulez! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Growltigger

June 18th, 2003, 02:31 PM

Timstone, you are in Prague with a good and willing girlfriend and YOU ARE FIDDLING ABOUT ON YOUR COMPUTER!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Hmmmm, you need to get out more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Timstone

June 18th, 2003, 05:12 PM

Hey, my stuff needs rest sometimes. Tjeez, give some rest will you?!

And how are you Big Cat? How's live treating you?

Later this evening we'll dine at a very expensive restaurant. Yeah, I can affort it easily. That's also great about this country. I'm like a tourist. I can pay for everything easily. I have (compared to here) a high wage, so I can spend money like the upper class here. Great I tell you!
Yes, maybe I'll go and stay here. Nah, not good idea. Lower wage here and I'll miss my sweet good old Holland. But this expensive diner is only the first step towards a big question. I'll ask this girl (sorry woman) if she would like to go with me to Holland. Hope she agrees. If not, I'll knock here unconscious with a brick (Bricktop from Snatch, hehehe) and kipnap her. yeah, that's the way to go.
Oh, to clarify the whole predicament (for the Big Cat). I met this girl before (I mentioned her in a story of mine in Ye Old Cantina, oh sweet memories), but she was on holiday in Holland (she lives in Poland, but a large portion of her family has moved to Holland). She went back to Poland. About three (maybe four) weeks ago I met her again (what are the odds!!) via a friend of mine in Poland. He said he knew a cool girl for me. Our surprise was huge when we saw eachother agian. Since then she and I went to Czechia (I had to go there because of my work) together. Now fingers crossed and off to diner. Yeah! Feeding frenzy!

P.S. The 2.0 Version of the B5 mod is back on track again. I won't have much time this week and the next. But from time to time I have some time to work on it.

Edit:
Reffering to the P.S. piece: Time?! This is no time to argue about time, we don't have the time...

[ June 18, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Growltigger

June 18th, 2003, 05:47 PM

Timstone, I am confused. I dont understand what is happening other than you are working in PRague and some young Polish lady seems to have introduced to you several times as your perfect partner...

Enjoy living like a prince. What work do you do anyhow that takes you to Prague?

Timstone

June 18th, 2003, 06:01 PM

I'm an engineer (remember the famous gearbox?) and currently I'm establishing traderoutes if you will with a Polish company and a Czechian company. The name of the game are generators. The one for powering a large factory (2 to 5 MW). It has been a long trip (two months). I really wnat to go home again, but with a prize... hehehe...

Growltigger

June 18th, 2003, 06:06 PM

OK, so you are fiddling about with some generators for a Polish company and a Czech company and also a Polish bird....

Right, does this involve nappies?

Timstone

June 18th, 2003, 06:11 PM

Hahaha... would like to know eh...
Nah, she's toilet-trained.
A little question Big Cat. Do you still remember the tale I posted in The Cantina (the one about the timetravelling gearbox and RD and I ending up in Midevil Europe)? Hope you do. Otherwise the tings I told you now would be meaningless and not understandable for you. If you need any clearification just tell me.

Growltigger

June 18th, 2003, 06:32 PM

Timstone, I am trying to forget that story - as I recall, that kicked off when I was "off forum" in Japan or Borneo or Morocco so dont remember all the details, other than the fact that we didn't manage to lose you in 1240.

Oh well, better luck next time. Perhaps you should make a guest appearance in the BarTrek thread as our resident Dutch engineering and nappy expert

Timstone

June 18th, 2003, 06:40 PM

Hahaha... fiasco! You bastard you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
You what they say in Holland about not able to lose me? "Onkruid vergaat niet." It roughly translates as "Weed never dies.".
And no, I'm not starring as the Famous Dutch engineer and nappy expert, I really don't have the time. Maybe, just maybe after two weeks, when I'm back home. With my prize, I hope...

Now, I off to diner, wish me luck.

Growltigger

June 18th, 2003, 06:50 PM

No worries Timstone, now remember that the fork goes to the left of your plate, the knife to the right, dont put your napkin in your collar or in your troUsers, dont especially pull your trouser pockets inside out, unzip your flies and pull your "bratwurst" out and tell your girlfriend this is your elephant impression.

Do use cutlery, dont guzzle your wine, dont fart at the table, and dont say to your girlfriend "hey, I said to Eric Clapton that if he likes my "Wonderful Tonight" song then go ahead and use it, just dont mention me on the record" chat up line

jimbob

June 18th, 2003, 08:15 PM

Good luck Timstone, a bird in the hand is... well potentially messy really, but we're not talking that kinda bird are we. Hope it goes very well.

Oh, and I thought you were a physicist... didn't you go and do some work on the large telescope in Hawaii at one point?

Sukerkin

June 18th, 2003, 09:08 PM

Thanks for the responses Pathfinder and SJ :thumbsup:.

The advice on the use of all the disperate types of armour will come in handy next game SJ ... I knew I was doing something wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif .

I was aware that the Structural Supports didn't contribute much to the overall 'armour' effect, I was just concerned that by putting them on I was somehow intefering with the ability of the advanced armour types to do their job (as I vaguely recalled reading somewhere around here that mixing up the kinds of armour caused the protection effects to become eratic).

From what you say tho', it seems I either misremembered what I'd read or that the problem has now been cured. Many thanks.

Raging Deadstar

June 18th, 2003, 09:17 PM

-=-=-=-=-= NON Babbylon 5 Mod related stuff-=-=-=-=-=

Hey Timstone! Before Jean Luc recruits you for the TSSS Phong's Head you could always join me. The Deadstar continuum is always looking for an ally to combat The Galactic Federation. I mean it's like 5-7 guys against poor old me! Ragnarok isn't posting much so any help would be appreciated when you get back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I'm sure we could find an overly evil and destructive use for that gearbox of yours! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I Now return you to your preprogrammed Babylon 5 Mod thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Suicide Junkie

June 18th, 2003, 09:47 PM

The only difference you should notice when adding two different types of armor is that you have less space for each individual type, and thus get less of their effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Timstone

June 19th, 2003, 12:47 PM

Dinner went well, and the night even better...

Big Cat: Thanks for the advise, I needed it. Always forget those basic things when I'm having a feeding frenzy.

Jimbob: That would be the VLT (Very Large Telescope) in Chile. I only went there for one month, enoug to Last me a livetime, bleh...

RD: Sure, I'll join you. I'm always on the lookout for other evil geniuses, but after my work/vacantion in Czechia. Sure is a pitty that good old Rags doesn't post anymore. btw, how's old Mac?

B5Mod 2.0: Ah, yes. Yesterday I sorted out the weapons every race can get (general stuff).
Now a question about the weapons families. How do they work? Is it so that every laser (no mater how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number and every missile (no matter how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number or does every tech (be it, bLast laser, breaching pods, basic missile, etc.) gets a different family number? Oh, and most important, what does it represent, how does the computer use it?

SJ: Ehh... yesterday I saw that the armor is a bit strange. You gave Structural Support 1A the same roman numeral as 1F, only 2A till 2F has a higher roman numeral. Why is this?
The same with the light, medium and heavy armor. They all got roman numeral 1. Does that mean the computer also sorts out the different upgrades (better armor) acording to the research levels involved? I don't get it.

Timstone

June 20th, 2003, 02:56 PM

Bumpski...

oleg

June 20th, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Timstone:
Bumpski...ohh, God, he is learning Polish already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Timstone

June 20th, 2003, 08:33 PM

Hahaha... LOL!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron

June 20th, 2003, 09:42 PM

B5Mod 2.0: Ah, yes. Yesterday I sorted out the weapons every race can get (general stuff).
Now a question about the weapons families. How do they work? Is it so that every laser (no mater how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number and every missile (no matter how it's called) gets the same Weapon Family number or does every tech (be it, bLast laser, breaching pods, basic missile, etc.) gets a different family number? Oh, and most important, what does it represent, how does the computer use it?Every weapon type needs it's own family (as they have now). All missiles do not get one family, each type of missile needs its own family number. In the unmodded game, Capital Ship Missiles and Plasma Torpedoes are both missiles, but they get separate family numbers because they are different weapons. CSM I and CSM II have the same family, but PT I has a different family. The AI uses the family numbers in making ship designs.

SJ: Ehh... yesterday I saw that the armor is a bit strange. You gave Structural Support 1A the same roman numeral as 1F, only 2A till 2F has a higher roman numeral. Why is this?
The same with the light, medium and heavy armor. They all got roman numeral 1. Does that mean the computer also sorts out the different upgrades (better armor) acording to the research levels involved? I don't get it.The letter part of the name is an upgrade of that level of armor (the number part). 1B is not a new level of armor above 1A, it is an upgrade of the 1 series of armor. I hope that made sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Timstone

June 20th, 2003, 09:47 PM

Yes, quite clear my good man. Thanks for the advise.
The only thing I can think about now is why does the computer need two family numbers (Weapon Family number and Family number), but that should be of use with the non-weapon thingies.
Thanks again for the clear explanation. Two thumbs up for you.

Edit01: Almost 600 Posts. Yehaa!

Edit02: Nice number of Posts in this thread; 3232. Niiiice.

[ June 20, 2003, 20:49: Message edited by: Timstone ]

jimbob

June 21st, 2003, 01:37 AM

Timstone: good news on the girl... excellent!
Oh, and PM for you too.

Edit: Hey, I'm only 3 Posts away from 600 myself! That's a surprise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Course I'm still less than 1/10 of the way to the number of Posts that Fyron has...

[ June 21, 2003, 00:39: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Rojero

June 21st, 2003, 02:25 AM

i have got a low amount of Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 12:10 AM

I finally finished going through the tech file to sort out the confusion it was causing me. The conclusions I reached follow. I will split it into three Posts to avoid the "huge page of ink" effect and boost my post count! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

1. Mine Tech beyond 3 is only used in the various Versions of the Anti-mine Missile. This seems counter-intuitive. AMM progress should be based on Ballistic Missile technology, with Mine tech 1 required to advance to AMM III, then Mine tech 2 to AMM VI, and Mine tech 3 for above VI.

2. Similarly, the minesweeper component should need progression in Mine tech as above.

3. I think jump gates should be bases, not ships. The explorer class ships, BTW, were construction ships for the EA jump gates, and the jump gates were immobile once constructed.

4. We need to implement pseudo-Newtonian movement for fighters. As it is, larger fighters are mostly just faster than small ones, which seems counter-intuitive. I have started this already, if anyone wants to see it.

5. The Anti-fighter Missiles, like the AMM, require fighter tech equal to AFM level (even though fighter tech only goes to level 6, and thus AFM above AFM VI will never be available). The fighter tech required for AFM should mirror that of the AMM above.

6. Infantry max level should be 3, not 4. There is no result for Inf tech 4.

7. Currently there is no way to raise planet conditions. This can be a crippling factor for the races that have low reproduction or low tolerance if they get a planet with �unpleasant� conditions. I recommend that the Homeworld Hub get the added ability of raising planetary conditions by 1%, 2% and 3% for levels I, II, and III respectively.

8. The Shipboard Space Yard should have a family different than the Base shipyard. I recommend 11005, which is free.

9. The Supply depot component doesn�t seem necessary. Recommend it be deleted.

10. It is peculiar that the cargo hold component size is so big (75 kt), given that a cargo hold is the most easily resized component there could be: it is just space, in essence. Recommend that all sizes, costs, and capacities be divided by five, to make the cargo versus speed payoff more interesting. Troop, fighter, satellite, and mine capacities would be unchanged.

11. The resupply tech seems a waste of space. Its only effect is to allow for larger depots, which would logically be a function of cargo tech, not resupply tech. Recommend that it be deleted and the resupply tech requirements in facilities.txt be changed to cargo.

12. Nothing uses any armor tech level above 2 except the Drazi external launch rails II component, which requires armor level 3! Since armor is one of the more expensive techs, recommend that the armor requirement for the Drazi be dropped, and that the max tech level for armor be set to 2.

13. Nothing uses the cloaking technology. Should be deleted.

14. Nothing uses sensor tech above level 8. Recommend making the max tech level 8.

15. The current treatment of scanners doesn�t make sense to me. Current, scanner tech can go to level 7, but only the Ancients can use Long Range Scanners level 6 and 7. There is no logical reason why Scanner 6 and Scanner 7 components should not be �Ancient Scanner 1� and �Ancient Scanner 2�, with added scanners 3-5. Then, limit scanner tech to level 5. The ancients should enjoy the advantage of their ancient tech. They shouldn�t have to research the �mundane� scanner techs to get to the �good stuff.�

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 12:10 AM

16. The only payoff for Computer tech beyond tech 1 is �Computer combat� which isn�t a tech used in this mod. Recommend delete CC tech area and set max computer tech level to 1.

17. The only thing that uses Minerals Extraction tech 4 is the Aggressive Mining Colony III. AMC advancement is unusual: AMC I is available at ME tech 2, AMC II at tech 3, and AMC III is available at tech 4. I think it is cleaner and more logical to assume that AMCs are not higher tech, they are just less careful. They should be available at the same tech level as their non-aggressive counterparts, and the ridiculously low payoff for the hideously expensive ME tech level 4 wouldn�t have to be rationalized. Players also get to make the choice of doubling their output at the cost of reducing the planet to a wasteland (for Am doubles the effectiveness of the equivalent regular MC, but that assumes that the choice is between the two, which it is not if the AMC requires a higher tech). I also think the mineral costs should be the same for the AMC as the MC, rather than higher. In fact, it probably SHOULD be lower, given that no environmental safeguards need to be provided.

18. Max level for ME, OE, and RE should be 3, not 9!

19. The Stellar Manipulation tech is not used and should be deleted.

20. The max level of Applied Intelligence that is used is 3, not 4.

21. The maximum level of Medical Technology used is 4, not 10.

22. Organic technology is not used, but should be. I think it should be left in for now, and self-healing ships should be introduced at some point.

23. Planet Utilization tech is not used and should be removed.

24. Advanced Military Science is okay as is, but I did note that the facility �Advanced Military Outpost� really only makes sense as a replacement for the manufacturing colony. It does not generate any resources, though (not that I ever understood why the ManC did so!) nor is it a spaceport for the system. This facility needs a bit of work before it is ready for prime time.

25. Applied Political Science tech is not used and should be deleted.

26. Organic Engineering is not used, but should be as per above.

27. Physics should have a max level of 2, not 4.

28. Psychic Studies is not used (except by Psychic weapons, itself not used) and both should be removed.

29. Psychology is not used and should be removed.

30. Religious Studies is not used and should be removed.

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 12:11 AM

31. Temporal Studies is not used except by Temporal Weapons and both should be removed.

32. Biotech Weapons should have a maximum level of 10, not 12.

33. �Ballistic� is mis-spelled under (the first) Advanced Planetary Weapons in the techarea.txt file. There are two techs, both called �Advanced Planetary Weapons.� One is under weapons technology, the other under advanced weapons technology. Dunno if this was deliberate or not, but there are two approaches to the weapons allowed by that tech. Of course, researching the second one is dumb if you have already done the first!

34. Organic Weapons is not used and should be removed, unless there is a desire to use them for Old Ones.

35. Ditto Crystalline Weapons.

36. I didn�t even try to do anything with the unique techs, as we all know they need work.

37. Stellar Harnessing is not used and should be removed.

38. Fission Utilization should have a max level of 4, not 3.

39. Fusion Utilization should have a max level of 4, not 3.

40. Ditto for A-M and Gravimetric Utilization

I didn�t look at all the racial and weapons techs. They need to be examined race by race.

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 12:19 AM

I also have had some time to get deeper into my engine analysis. the current engine setup isn't very continuous, because it has big jumps at certain points. It also maxes out speed of the big ships (due to the 256 engines limit)quite early.

What i am trying to do is come up with a schema that uses a better mix of engine points and bonus movement points to create a more continuous curve of improvements, without getting too distorted by the effects of bonus movement points.

Timstone, I strongly urge you in Version 2.0 to stick with ship hull sizes in even multiples of 100, and make it cost 1 engine per 100 KT to move, vice the 1 per 50 now used. That would simplify things a lot.

PF: I also have been looking at the AI effects on research and speed. Two things struck me:
1. The AI doesn't seem to get a call to research propulsion above level 13. Am I reading that incorrectly?
2. The AI gets the call to research Antimatter Utilization very late - after it could have been using AM engines, in fact. Was that by design, or just the way it turned out?

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 12:21 AM

BTW, I could add my new tech file, but have forgotten how to upload here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Fyron

June 22nd, 2003, 07:51 AM

To upload, go to the main Intel Forums page. Go into the first Category (mods scenarios uploads), and pick the appropriate thread.

3. I think jump gates should be bases, not ships. The explorer class ships, BTW, were construction ships for the EA jump gates, and the jump gates were immobile once constructed.
You have to have a movement point available to open or close a WP, so bases can not use them. So, they must be on ships.

10. It is peculiar that the cargo hold component size is so big (75 kt), given that a cargo hold is the most easily resized component there could be: it is just space, in essence. Recommend that all sizes, costs, and capacities be divided by five, to make the cargo versus speed payoff more interesting. Troop, fighter, satellite, and mine capacities would be unchanged.
Val had a very good reason for making them so large. Perhaps someone else will remember.

[ June 22, 2003, 06:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Timstone

June 22nd, 2003, 12:45 PM

Grumbler: Tjeez, you've been busy. Too much time on your hands? Rest assured most of the thingies you've found will be taken care of. The strange things you've found in the facilities did escape me. So I've changed them accordingly.The reason for the large amount of open tech levels is (very surprisingly): The Mod isn't finished yet.
Because of my busy schedule at the moment I can't take care of all the bugs, but Posts like this really help track them all down. When I'm ready to release a test Version of the 2.0 Version, hope to get as many Posts with good advise and bug locations. Keep up the good work!

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 03:19 PM

IF: Good point about the movement. I had forgotten (never actually built any, meself, in all the games that I have played! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif )

Timstone: I know that the mod isn't finished yet, and that's why "delete" for the time being should consist just of adding a racial area to the tech, such as 2 (deeply religious). You have to do this for the nonce anyway, since the AI still calls for those techs and if you simply erase them you will get an error message.

I did find out why you cannot have aggressive mining at tech level 1, though: if you do, all the mining stations on the homeworld are aggressive in the setup! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif That might be kinda cool for a "we have to get off the homeworld before we choke on our own excesses" scenario, but that's not B5's canon.

So, while I still think the tradeoff should be there, it cannot start at Mining Tech 1. Perhaps the AMC I should be deleted and the tradeoffs just be between MC II and AMC II and MC III and AMC III.

And, TS, I didn't do this all in a day. I actually started the tech-tracing before my computer went down in the early spring, and I finally got the couple hours needed to finish it.

Timstone

June 22nd, 2003, 07:22 PM

Good digging Grumbler. And good thing you are on the net again.
I've done some digging and numbercrunching of my own and I decided to swap the costs of the Agressive Mining and normal Mining buildings. I also modified the tech levels a bit. Though, I'm not sure what to do with the excess levels (Val gave 9 levels of minerals extraction, rads extraction and organics extraction). Ah well, maybe a good idea will come to me (probably in the middle of the night).
Again, excellent work my good man. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Edit: Oh shoot I forgot, could someone upload his (or her) settings.txt? I really need it to verify some things.

[ June 22, 2003, 18:24: Message edited by: Timstone ]

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 09:13 PM

Thanks, Tim,

Another bit of data I grubbed out but never got to post, on Education Centers and Arch Sites:

Comparing the Archaeological Site with the Educational Center we find that we have some problems.

The following rations help explain the problem ratios are the AS number divided by the EC number:

AS I to EC I:
Cost Minerals: 0.41
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation � Research: 0.67

AS II to EC II:
Cost Minerals: 0.44
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation � Research: 0.75

AS II to EC II:
Cost Minerals: 0.45
Planet - Shield Generation: 2.00
Point Generation � Research: 0.80

Each has a unique ability usable by only one per planet, but these I will ignore for the nonce, because as I will show, the AI will build a single AS on each research planet anyway, and the Ship Training capability is not generally applicable.

The problem with the current setup is that the AI follows a very inefficient path on its research planets. To give an example of how profound this can be, I will use the following case:

Assume a small planet. Assume that the population of the planet is 250 million (though this assumption is only for illustrative purposes, it isn�t too far off from what you typically find). Ignoring for the nonce population growth, you have 380 construction points per turn. Assume Research tech level I.

The AI will follow the following pattern when it builds up the planet:
Build EC I
Build AS I
Build three more EC I
Build Medical Center I
Build two Covert Ops Center I
Build two EC I

I, as a human player, on the other hand, build more rationally and never use the EC as follows (I will build the MC I and CoC I even though I probably wouldn�t myself, as otherwise the comparison becomes impossible):

Build five AS I
Build Medical Center I
Build two Covert Ops Center I
Build two AS I

Now, the AI will spend 286 turns to complete the planet, while I will spend 172 turns. True, at the end of it the IA has a planet producing 7446 RP per turn and my only produces 5986, but I have had a lot of RP production in the meantime that the AI has not.

After 50 turns, the AI has totaled 19,710 RP, and I have 44,530.

After 100 turns, the AI has totaled 110,960 RP, and I have 201,188

After 200 turns, the AI has totaled 565,969 RP, and I have 670,578

In fact, after 300 turns my method still holds the edge in total accumulated RP, 1,225,378 to 1,155,225. Given especially the disproportionate advantage of early RPs, it is clear that the AI strategy, while logical, give a human player an enormous advantage.

There are two solutions: reduce the cost of the EC, or increase the cost of the AS. As the game already moves so slowly, I think that former is the solution.

If the EC�s price is set to 150% of the AS, it still makes sense to build both of them on a planet. While building an all-AS planet still provides an early edge, by turn 100 of the planet�s history the AI strategy will be 16% better than the all-AS strategy.

In order for this solution to work though, the ratio of the EC producing 50% more RPs than the AS must be maintained at the higher tech levels. The current methodology simply adds 250 RP per level to both facilities. I think that it would be better to just increase production by 33% for each facility, thus yielding the following RPs at levels I/II/III (rounding a bit for ease of comprehension):

Archaeological Site: 500/665/885
Educational Center: 750/1000/1325

Thoughts?

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 09:18 PM

And I think everybody has realized that the costs for Covert Ops Center and Listening Post sould be reversed? Otherwise, no one should ever build a CoC, as they are twice the cost but not as good.

One LP is the most any system needs.

grumbler

June 22nd, 2003, 09:41 PM

Another somewhat trivial question: was it deliberate that the scout ship and fast courier do not obey the Newtonian rules (i.e. have one engine per move vice what should be 2 and 3 respectively)? Would it not be better to simply not require life support or crew quarters under the assumption that the bridge was big enough to include all that for the small crew?

My problem is that I guess I have a hard time making seclected ship typres violate the laws of physics to make the game work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As it is, the scouts are no big deal, but the advantage the FC has is so enormous as to make it generally unwise to build any other transport type.

grumbler

June 23rd, 2003, 01:47 AM

Still having problems getting the AI to build spaceports properly. I thought the "scammer jammer" dodge would work, but since SJ isn't a system-wide phenomena, every planet builds a trading post if you give the SJ ability to the TP. But if you don't, then no system builds a spaceport-type facility.

If you actually call for the "spaceport" ability, then the AI choses the most advanced facility with that capability - the Homeworld Hub! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

If we use an unused system-wide capability to get the spaceport ability, then all of the AI construction_facility files need to be redone. If we just use the SP ability (and just not make the HH a spaceport), then this will still require rewriting the c_f files.

The easiest thing to do would be to just make all the races "natural merchants" (or whatever that trait is called that eliminates the need for spaceports) and get rid of the SP ability for homeworld hubs (else you will not start with one), but it seems a shame to get rid of a concept that is so inherent to the original game and which makes so much sense.

Thoughts? Alternative suggestions?