Babylon 5 Mod [Archive] - Page 3

Val

April 5th, 2002, 02:24 AM

Good news, I spent a bit of time yesterday and got the main AI to build ships for all the races with engines, it was a problem with the Ship Sizes - Pathfinder set me on the right path with his comments on the Colony ship, and low and behold... it now works, even with the original 300 size ship and 150 size colony component. I do believe I will change the size of both the colony ship and module anyway, to give it more of that ponderous feel. Thanks Pathfinder! I'll upload the datafiles later today and then rename your data folder Data2 and replace with the ones I post so we can see how it does http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

Also, once I get the basic AI to build ships with reactors and the basic weapons, I will zip the entire thing (it iss pretty big) into one file and post for a single downloadable working mod. Then we can start detailing AIs for each of the races.

There are a few components that I do not yet have pics for, but I pointed the components to the right spot so I could just update the components - the ones I have intentionally done are:

Fighter Engines : 697, 702, 707, 712
Molecular Disruptor & Pulsar : 547, 546
Pulsar Mine: 594
Pulsar Mine : 595
Scanner Jammer : 854
Stealth Cloak : 855
Shading Field : 856

Every other weapon should have a component pic for it.

[ 04 April 2002: Message edited by: Val ]

Suicide Junkie

April 5th, 2002, 04:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Haven't seen it yet, though Armor is a bit further down the list in what is to be researched. Two of the AI are getting close then I will let you know what happens <hr></blockquote>I would think that at least some of the very basic armors should be taken right at the start!

Hmm. 120,000 points to get started on armor is a bit much.
I can set the starting level in "armor" to 1.
Then its only 20K points to get structural supports and Class 0 light armor.
60K gets you into the full light armors.

Medium tech start should probably start you out with basic Heavy Inert armor (none of the manufacturing/physics upgrades).
Armor tech areas.txt (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/tempstuff/b5/armortechareas.txt)

PS: The B5 mod is also hosted over at my place (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/b5mod), and though it may not always be up, and has a somewhat limited pipe, it will never run into transfer limits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif .

[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

pathfinder

April 5th, 2002, 11:46 PM

Coupla notes before I dive back into the beta-testing mire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif : The Narn seem to have a problem with the little check box for AI being turned-on for new ships (block is unchecked in AI/ministers area). This is evwen when I have them start as AI only. Means they sit and research but nothing else until I check that box. Then I have to design ships (they won't). Once designed they build but unless I check that box the ships just sit in orbit.

EA don't seem to have this problem (well except the design one).

Val

April 5th, 2002, 11:54 PM

PF:

Have you tried to download the new AI and Data files and replace the old? All races will design and build ships - though they are not the greatest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Also, I kept the AI files that were flavor files (General, speech and the like) for all the races, so they maintain and EA/Narn/Centauri feel. Next step is to add the correct research and ship con files to each race.

SJ:

I'll give everyone Armor 1 to start and restart a game, see what comes of it.

Suicide Junkie

April 6th, 2002, 12:27 AM

"I'll give everyone Armor 1 to start and restart a game, see what comes of it."

The new armor tech areas file i linked to should do that for you.

Val

April 6th, 2002, 12:34 AM

Ah, did not realize you went back and editted that in.

I'll cut and paste it over the old techs.

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 01:07 AM

nope I hadn't..or don't think I did. still can't access that web site. guess I'll go to SJ's site and see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 01:23 AM

Hmmm, I loaded/reloaded it and now get a message with most of the "normal" weapons missing ie: "Unknown Value phased-energy weapons/energy-stream weapons/projectile weapons/...."

after getting past this and I end turn to go to next I get "Acess violation at address 005A238F in FFFFFFFF"

I'll check the AI's (EA and Narn) to see which one may have the problem (designcreation.txt?)

Update: They both still have references in the research.txt file to the "normal" weapons. I believe this is what is causing the error.

[ 05 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 02:35 AM

Deleting the lines dealing with all the normal weapons got rid of both error.

Note: IMHO the fighter weapon sizes need to be halved or the power cells/engines need to be smaller http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Same size issue as the colony ship engine/hull; so I cut the tiny weapon sizes (the ones that show up for the fighters) in half so that a light fighter can have a bit of an aresenal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW: Both the EA and Narn are doing their own designs now. Good job!

PPS: I had to load the gold planets pics folder...there was a call for a p0581 and none existing in the folder at the time. I loaded it in and voila...missing warp points appeared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

also I experimented with setting the tiny weapons to zero so they would be available; they are but to both races (eg Narn tiny is available to EA & vice versa) bleah...how to get race-specific weapons on start without letting other races have them available too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 05:40 AM

Who the heck are the ShagToth? Are there any pictures of them? I have not been able to find any...

Baron Munchausen

April 6th, 2002, 06:45 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by pathfinder:
Who the heck are the ShagToth? Are there any pictures of them? I have not been able to find any...<hr></blockquote>

That's another name for the Soul Hunters. I forget now if it's the Minbari name for them or their own name for themselves.

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 06:47 AM

ahh..thankee suh! now to either re-name the folder or rename the shipset http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

TheGunslinger

April 6th, 2002, 11:13 AM

hey Pathfinder, i have EXACTLY the same problem that you have (many Unknown Values for Weapons at the start up)

can you please explain (exactly) how you solved that ?
Thanks

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 05:38 PM

What weapon series do the ShagToth (soulhunters) use? Psychic abilities yes but what weapons? I didn't find any "psychic" weapons except the shipboard telepaths. Common series maybe?

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 06:38 PM

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

The blighters now design but design colony ships with 2 colony modules and no reactors, and the escorts/transports with no reactors. So they just sit there.... Edit: I fixed---seems I needed to up colony module back to 200KT with minimum % for the module to 40%...well it werks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

On my earlier post about weapons; maybe all races start out with level 1 general tiny and general light then research their prospective race specific (if they have any) weapons. Just a suggestion so that all races start with SOMETHING! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT/UPDATE: Seems that if you add a statement reactor=true and number reactor=1 in the shipsize file they put a reactor in. Also I seriously recommend the light fission reactor be upgrded to 1500 instead of staying 500 for output (otherwise the ships just sit because they don't have ennough supplies to move).

PPPPSSSS: I guess the two issues that get me are the engine to ship size // light reactor output issue and the no weapons at start (which I fixed in my setup)... when these two issues are "fixed" I think some "serious" tweaking can be done (not that you guys haven't beat this thing into decent shape so far)
[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Tnarg

April 6th, 2002, 11:13 PM

Where might I find the sight to download this Mod.

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 11:21 PM

tnarg: this mod is being tested, not quite ready for prime time.

now if ya wanna help test http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

this is suicide junkies site: http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/b5mod

no instructions, the one with instructions used up its bandwidth and currently is available.

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 6th, 2002, 11:28 PM

Weapons: Uhm...what would be a good "general" startup" technology to use? The 'General Light" series have to have physics researched...

Seeems to me there should be something (mass driver, DUC, ???) at the very start available to all...

guess I'll be quiet...starting to repeat myself.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Fyron

April 6th, 2002, 11:29 PM

Mass drivers are powerful weapons of mass destruction. They wouldn't be very appropriate as a basic weapon.

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

pathfinder

April 7th, 2002, 02:17 AM

The AI_research.txt file (found in the picture/race folder) for the two B5 races I am beta testing for the B5 mod had references to the regular weapons for the game. These weapons did not have a corresponding note in the component.txt file in the data folder. I merely deleted the lines in the AI_research.txt file to the weapons that I got errors from.

I would back up my files before doing this!

Hope I am clear enough here.

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 7th, 2002, 03:54 PM

Well I was thinking of mass drivers in Wing Commander style not planet-killer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW: What are main weapons of each race? So far all I can figger out is the EA Ballistic (missiles); do they have a beam or projectile-type weapon also?

EDIT: Still can't get the buggers to use reactors. They also put huge engines in escorts and then no room for anything else...DOH! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Guess I'll have to enable tech tree visible in-game, eh?

[ 07 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

April 7th, 2002, 07:39 PM

Reactors will have to be called for via a useless ability, just like the engines. Don't ask for supply storage, or you'll just get the biggest thing around.

What you might be able to do is time your reactor/engine research to follow your ship construction, so you'll always have room for it when you get the next bigger size of reactor/engine.

pathfinder

April 7th, 2002, 08:20 PM

Trying that but the only ship design that the EA & Narn "listen" to are the colony ships and for soem reason they insist on put an external cargo pod on them.

One thing that seems to help the early game is an increase in movement in the light fission & light fusion engines. I upped them to 3 per and that seems to give enough "umph" until the medium fission engine is developed; otherwise they either run out of space or reach max number engines before getting movement 1.

What would kick them into designing attack ships? The seem to forget them for some reason.

[ 07 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 07 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

April 7th, 2002, 08:35 PM

Why is there a max # of engines?
That defeats the point of QNP!

If you want to design a ship that looks like a can of people on top of a great big pile of engines, go ahead! You'll find that it costs a king's ransom in radioactives for all those engines, but if you want or need something like that (for scouting, say), then go ahead.

pathfinder

April 7th, 2002, 08:47 PM

Dunno on the max # engines, that is way some of the smaller ships are setup. I'll change that and see what happens.

Edit: doesn't seem to matter, all they do is increase or decrease the number of external cargo pods (for some reason that is the "choice" cargo unit)

[ 07 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Suicide Junkie

April 8th, 2002, 02:35 AM

I mean the hull shouldn't be restricted as to the number of engines.
The AIs should only be told to add a reasonable number, but that is a completely different thing.

pathfinder

April 8th, 2002, 12:46 PM

Gonna take a break from this, all I do is go in circles..

Val

April 8th, 2002, 02:50 PM

Wow, very surprised to see so much activity after missing the weekend. Sorry guys!

PF - Didn't know we could add the Reactor := True bit, that is pretty cool! I had been getting them to add the reactor by requiring the generic AI to put supplies or solar generation on the ships (which only reactors and solar panels have). But, as SJ said this only gets the biggest reactor. The useless abil thing will need to be added as work on the AI progresses.

Some answers:

Web Site - Sent Spaceports an E*Mail about the site, once reactivated I am posting the mod in it's entirety as a single zip file. I will then post updates as the AI is fixed and new races are added.

Max # of Engines - the only places I put a max number of engines are on things like the Colony ship, Transports and Carriers. If you look closely on most of these ships the max number of engines IS the most engines you can put on the ship do to requirements in Colony/Cargo/FighterBay modules and in LifeSupport/Bridge/CrewQuarters. The AI was not building the ships until I changed this. It worked, so I left it as is.

External Cargo Pods v. Internal - In the show most ships seemed to use the external pods, so I stuck with that theame. You can change it around if you like.

Slow Move Early in the Game - The only reason everything is so slow at the beggining of the game is because of the fission engines, they are meant to be slow to make the begining of the game a slow expansion, which will pick up speed as you research better technology. If you want to make the game speed a bit faster, go into the TechArea.txt file and find "Fusion Utilization", change "Start Level :=" from 0 to 1. Then change "Tech Level Req 1 :=" from 3 to 1. This will start all races with Fusion Engines. Now you will need to do a FIND and REPLACE in the "Default_AI_Research.txt" file and replace Fission with Fusion to allow the AI's to research the higher levels as well.

Shag'Toth - They are (as BM said) are the SoulHunters. There should be a pic in their directory. The AI that is currently in the ShagToth folder looks for the Psychic tree, but this is for a game of standard SE IV. Instead of the Physic Racial ability they should be given "ShagToth Race" (Use caps as shown). This will give them access to their special racial techs (those that have been added as of yet.

AI - Weapon not "whatever" not found. This is because you still have AI in whichever race directory. Go into C:\Program Files\Shrapnel Games\Malfador Machinations\Space Empires IV\B5Mod(or whatever folder you put it in)\Pictures\Races\
Then go into each race folder and make sure the only "Race_AI_" files are the Anger, Fleets, General, Settings and Speech files. Then make sure you have the AI files I posted (further down this list) in an AI folder at the root of the B5Mod.

Individual races using their own weapons - Working on this now, I just wanted to focus on the generic AI first so it would be easier to convert at the end. I'll upload some specific racial AIs some time this week. If you want to do it yourselves, there are three main things you have to do:
1) Go to the Race_AI_General.txt file and change the "Race Opt # Num Advanced Traits :=" to one higher for each of the 3 (Race Opt 1, Opt 2, Opt 3). Then add a new Adv Trait line under each with the name of the race and the word race. So for the NarnRegime you would Up "Race Opt 1 Num Advanced Traits :=" from 2 to 3. Then go down 3 lines and add "Race Opt 1 Adv Trait 3 := Narn Race" then go down to "Race Opt 2 Num Advanced Traits :=" and raise it from 3 to 4. Go down 4 lines and add "Race Opt 2 Adv Trait 4 := Narn Race" then go down to "Race Opt 3 Num Advanced Traits :=" and raise it from 5 to 6, then go down 6 lines and add "Race Opt 3 Adv Trait 6 := Narn Race".

2)Now copy the "Default_AI_Research" file from the AI folder to the specific race folder and then do a find and replace for "General". So, far the NarnRegime, we would copy "Default_AI_Research" into the NarnRegime Race folder and rename it "Narn_AI_Research" then we would open it and do a FIND for General. Then replace the word general with the word "Narn", repeat this throughout the file. Now the AI will reserach Narn weapons. I would actually recommend copying the lines where they reserach the general weapons and pasting them right underneath and just change that to the "Narn" weapons, this way the race researches both types of weapons.

3) Now the hard part: Copy "Default_AI_DesignCreation" to the individual racial AI folder and edit the weapon types. Narn again - Copy file to the Narn folder and rename to "Narn_AI_DesignCreation". Go down to the various ships to the lines that say "Majority Weapon family Pick # :=" and change the numbers to Narn weapon numbers - this will require you to check the Components file and find out what Weapon Family each weapon belongs to. This can take a LOT of time.

No Weapons at start - This should not be the case if you are using the new Data and AI files. You should start with a few basic weapons.

Reactor Output - yeah, have to raise that!

Colony Mod issue - haven't seen the AI drop in 2 colony modueles, the colony ships were my first priority when I started to redo the AI, and if you are using the AI I posted (not the AI designs that came

Mass Drivers - These are pretty easy weapons to make and are pretty simply technology (occording to B5 tech material). The down side is they are Banned in most major treaties, so in a game between humans on a PBW it would be an atrocity, would love to have some major ANGER reaction in the game to when this weapon is used.

(Edit - Spelling)

[ 08 April 2002: Message edited by: Val ]

pathfinder

April 9th, 2002, 12:11 AM

" Didn't know we could add the Reactor := True bit, that is pretty cool! ... "

Not sure it is working But I did add a requirement of reactor=true and requirement reactor minimum=1 ...transports, sat layers (escorts) still did't equip the reactors though.

"Web Site - Sent Spaceports an E*Mail about the site, once reactivated I am posting the mod in it's entirety as a single zip file. I will then post updates as the AI is fixed and new races are added." Kewl, looking forward to some good stuff, not my "hacking" with a dull axe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

"Max # of Engines - the only places I put a max number of engines are on things like the Colony ship, Transports and Carriers. If you look closely on most of these ships the max number of engines IS the most engines you can put on the ship do to requirements in Colony / Cargo / ighterBay modules and in LifeSupport/ Bridge/ CrewQuarters. The AI was not building the ships until I changed this. It worked, so I left it as is."

Did not matter in my setup (wonder if I botched something?!)

"External Cargo Pods v. Internal - In the show most ships seemed to use the external pods, so I stuck with that theame. You can change it around if you like."

Naw, s'ok. I haven't watched much B5, so it ok. Big problem I have is how much cargo they hold. This ends up with a single pod on a colony ship allowing the colony ship to something like 200+ million. Ya know fast a homeworld depletes with the AI colonizing like mad? hehe....too darn fast IMHO anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Slow Move Early in the Game - The only reason everything is so slow at the beggining of the game is because of the fission engines, they are meant to be slow to make the begining of the game a slow expansion, which will pick up speed as you research better technology. If you want to make the game speed a bit faster, go into the TechArea.txt file and find "Fusion Utilization", change "Start Level :=" from 0 to 1. Then change "Tech Level Req 1 :=" from 3 to 1. This will start all races with Fusion Engines. Now you will need to do a FIND and REPLACE in the "Default_AI_Research.txt" file and replace Fission with Fusion to allow the AI's to research the higher levels as well.

Naw, fission at start is fine, what I was concerned about was AI filling up with engines and no reactors, just get to 1 space/sector movement per turn. I upped the movement for each small fission and small fusion to 3...which maybe too much. I agree slow in beginnning is more "realistic". This is sorta similar to the colony ship/engine size thingy I pointed out earlier.

"Shag'Toth - They are (as BM said) are the SoulHunters. There should be a pic in their directory. The AI that is currently in the ShagToth folder looks for the Psychic tree, but this is for a game of standard SE IV. Instead of the Physic Racial ability they should be given "ShagToth Race" (Use caps as shown). This will give them access to their special racial techs (those that have been added as of yet."

Yeah....mehtinks I'll work on this one. Nice challenge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

"AI - Weapon not "whatever" not found. This is because you still have AI in whichever race directory. Go into C:\Program Files\Shrapnel Games\Malfador Machinations\Space Empires IV\B5Mod(or whatever folder you put it in)\Pictures\Races\
Then go into each race folder and make sure the only "Race_AI_" files are the Anger, Fleets, General, Settings and Speech files. Then make sure you have the AI files I posted (further down this list) in an AI folder at the root of the B5Mod."

Okies....

"Individual races using their own weapons - Working on this now, I just wanted to focus on the generic AI first so it would be easier to convert at the end. I'll upload some specific racial AIs some time this week. If you want to do it yourselves, there are three main things you have to do:
1) Go to the Race_AI_General.txt file and change the "Race Opt # Num Advanced Traits :=" to one higher for each of the 3 (Race Opt 1, Opt 2, Opt 3). Then add a new Adv Trait line under each with the name of the race and the word race. So for the NarnRegime you would Up "Race Opt 1 Num Advanced Traits :=" from 2 to 3. Then go down 3 lines and add "Race Opt 1 Adv Trait 3 := Narn Race" then go down to "Race Opt 2 Num Advanced Traits :=" and raise it from 3 to 4. Go down 4 lines and add "Race Opt 2 Adv Trait 4 := Narn Race" then go down to "Race Opt 3 Num Advanced Traits :=" and raise it from 5 to 6, then go down 6 lines and add "Race Opt 3 Adv Trait 6 := Narn Race"."

Hmmm...okies...

2)Now copy the "Default_AI_Research" file from the AI folder to the specific race folder and then do a find and replace for "General". So, far the NarnRegime, we would copy "Default_AI_Research" into the NarnRegime Race folder and rename it "Narn_AI_Research" then we would open it and do a FIND for General. Then replace the word general with the word "Narn", repeat this throughout the file. Now the AI will reserach Narn weapons. I would actually recommend copying the lines where they reserach the general weapons and pasting them right underneath and just change that to the "Narn" weapons, this way the race researches both types of weapons."

Okies...

"3) Now the hard part: Copy "Default_AI_DesignCreation" to the individual racial AI folder and edit the weapon types. Narn again - Copy file to the Narn folder and rename to "Narn_AI_DesignCreation". Go down to the various ships to the lines that say "Majority Weapon family Pick # :=" and change the numbers to Narn weapon numbers - this will require you to check the Components file and find out what Weapon Family each weapon belongs to. This can take a LOT of time."

*Eyes glaze over, mumble to self* I see.....oh, mah achin' haid!

"No Weapons at start - This should not be the case if you are using the new Data and AI files. You should start with a few basic weapons."

Yeah,, methinks I may be using some older Version....DOH!

Val

April 9th, 2002, 02:17 PM

Reactors := True
Haven't had time to test either, but would be nice if it does work. Opens possibilities to title the engines as "Light Engine", "Medium Engine", etc.

Web Site :
Hoping to get this done by tomorrow.

Max # Engines:
If you botched something and it works, all the better! Make sure to save those Data & Vehicle files to compare.

External Cargo Pod Space:
Population is meant to take up more cargo space and was changed early on. Apparently we lost that at some point when making a revision. Will add it back in.

Slow Ships:
In most of the test games I have played, the AI is making progress - though at a slower pace than a human. Reactors have been appearing on ships, but not quite as many as I would like. Maybe I will give all Engines some extra storage space to help balance that out. Though only the reactors can 'regenerate' the supplies (or a layover at a supply base).

ShagToth:
One minor issue you'll have with the Shag'Toth is that all their special EM weapons haven't been added yet (same with the Vorlons). I had stopped short of finishing all the weapons when reports of the AI not working surfaced, now that the AI is on track I will get the Last two weapon areas completed (ElectroMagnetic and Gravitic).

Individual Racial AIs:
If y'all can wait till the weekend, I'll put together some basic racial AIs. They will change as I improve the base AI, but they will at least use their individual racial techs.

Data/AI Files:
Go to your B5Mod directory and rename the Data folder to DataOld, do the same with the AI directory. Then go back a few pages in this thread and download the most recent Data/AI zip and install in your directory. You should notice a few differences. Also, you need to make sure that the AI in the Pictures/Races/"whatever Race" and the Pictures/RaceNeutral/"whatever Race" folders only include the following 5 AI files, otherwise it will not work: "Race_AI_Anger, Race_AI_Fleets, Race_AI_General, Race_AI_Settings, Race_AI_Speech" (though it is ok if they do NOT have all these files - they will then use the defaults).

Rambie

April 9th, 2002, 09:15 PM

I know I haven't been as active in this MOD as others, but if you'd my site can be a mirror for the MOD.

www.xmission.com/~rstulce (http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce)

Rambie

Rambie

April 9th, 2002, 09:15 PM

I know I haven't been as active in this MOD as others, but if you'd my site can be a mirror for the MOD.

www.xmission.com/~rstulce (http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce)

[ 09 April 2002: Message edited by: Rambie ]

Val

April 10th, 2002, 06:32 PM

Another mirror certainly could not hurt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, though I have had success with the AI in the past week, I am still having issues with the different sized engines, though I can force the AI to choose engines of my liking, it is a HUGE pain in the butt and would require me to make vehicle designs for each size group. Instead I am reworking the engines al together. Sizes will remain in a range of 5-10 kt, but the amount of output will differ (as will supply drain). Trying to figure this out and will then post the results.

Suicide Junkie

April 10th, 2002, 07:12 PM

Val:
Are you making the AIs use a fixed number of engines?
If so, why is the "x engines per KT size of the ship" not working for you?

Val

April 10th, 2002, 07:44 PM

I was trying to make the AI use a fixed number of engines, but what would always happen is they would reach the next 'plataeu' of engine (eg: from light to medium) it would put too many of the large engines on the ship, making it unviable in combat. If I lower the # of engines then the ships are too slow until the larger engines appear. Unless I am doing something wrong... I can post the AI later if you would like a peek at it.

Suicide Junkie

April 10th, 2002, 09:01 PM

If there isn't a huge efficiency difference between the engines, why not just stick with light drives?
The AI could then concentrate on other research areas.

Later on, when you get large ships and large drives, you can design the ships with X heavy and Y light engines per KT.

pathfinder

April 11th, 2002, 01:41 AM

*groan* I knew that the B5 component.txt file was big but jeezzzzzzz.......

My eyes have been a problem when looking at how this thing is setup so I thought I would print a copy so I could look at the designcreation.txt and research.txt for each B5 race....

almost 1700 pages later.....

almost got a hernia carrying the box to the car too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I never claimed to be the sharpest tool in the tool box! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Andy Watkins

April 11th, 2002, 03:07 PM

Hi all,

I'm a big B5 fan, been playing SEIV a couple of weeks now and getting the hang of it.

2 questions.

Is there anywhere I can just download a set of graphics from B5 for SEIV. Say Narn or Shadows etc.

2ndly is there an actual B5 mod that goes further than this? I presume so hence this thread.

Unless it's really easy I would be happy with just the pictures!

Ta

Andy

Suicide Junkie

April 11th, 2002, 03:12 PM

B5 Mod Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/b5mod/B5ModHome.html)

Val: Your homepage link goes to a 404 on spaceports. You might want to update it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

April 12th, 2002, 05:01 AM

Andy: Some of the B5 races are available in the racestyles area, some are available at the site SJ gave (careful..if ya D/L the mod stuff it is incompatible with Gold atm).

Question #2: The B5 MOD is being developed and tested, not ready for prime time yet..

pathfinder

April 12th, 2002, 05:07 AM

Val/SJ, et al.... been comparing the Hyach (uses default AI in my setup) vs the EA. One peculiar thing I noticed was that the Hyach will put reactors in their attack ships (escorts) and troop ships (small transport) the EA didn't until I deleted the .emp file and made a new one. Colony ships still don't put a reactor on board nor will pop transports.

Val

April 12th, 2002, 06:29 AM

First Things First - Here are the latest Data/AI files--

DataAI041202.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1018585734.zip)

Something that needs to be done- Mod the Systems so blackholes & nebula have an 'invisible' star, using either the BlackHole Star or 'blank' star from the planets folder. This is important for the reactors to work properly.

Pathfinder:
Oh man! I can't believe you actually printed the whole kit-n-kaboodle out! Insane!! Well, at least you'll get a good workout carrying it around http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif If you would like a list of the Weapon Families by race, I am working on an Excel list to make AI modders lives easier. If you were printing out for some other reason, let me know what you are looking for and maybe I can make your life easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks much for the tireless effort (that goes for everyone else working on this as well). You might want to use the latest Data and such files posted above and move all the old EMP files and AI out of the mod folder.

Andy:
Right now my main site is down, but you can go to one of the other sites (SJ posted a link below, plus there is a mirror at SJs site and may soon be one at Rambie's) and if you just download the Races zip file, you will have the shipsets for everything we currently have. The actual mod aims to go much further though. Once the mod is completed it will have different graphics (including win/lose/title screen - thanks Rambie), a variety of new weapons (when Last counted over 200 unique weapons each with up to 10 Versions), different armor system (thanks SJ), some new shipsets (such as the Shag'Toth, aka SoulHunters, and Hyach - thanks Oleg & Zircher), new Random Events (including Dracus' - Danka) and quite a few other things (thanks Atomannj, Master Belsarius, Imperator Fyron & Pathfinder). But we need people to test it as we get the AI finished and start working on the individual AIs, so if you're up for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Engines & Reactors:
Revised both for all types. AI is much happier with it this way. Size is consistant, thrust/cost/struct differ. Instead of Light/Medium/Heavy/Huge now Prototype/Standard/Advanced/UltraEffecient. Reactors provide enough fuel for ship to avoid the Narn circle (fly out one turn, fly home next because it thinks supplies are low). Hope y'all like.

AI:
Working a bit better, still working on base AI, though I have at least changed the racial AIs to include their individual races as a first step.

Weapons:
Still have to add ElectroMag and Gravitic. Now that engines/reactors are working I will do this weekend.

pathfinder

April 12th, 2002, 06:34 AM

Val: Yeah, I was looking to setup a database or spreadsheet so that weapons mod-stuff would be easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'll go ahead and get those data/ai files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

April 12th, 2002, 06:46 AM

*Dances jig* WHooHoo! ya got the reactors fixed!

*Salute* Good job Val!

Only one not using them is the escort-based satellite layer *shrug*...

Val

April 12th, 2002, 07:03 AM

Ah, who needs satellites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

April 12th, 2002, 07:13 AM

WeapList.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1018588228.zip)

Here is a rough excel sheet, if you look in the tech column you can see what race the weapon is for (in some case more than one race). Also, most basic weapons can be researched by all races (such as light/medium lasers) up to a certain level, then you need to have the specific racial trait or tech (depending). I also included a corrected AI and Data folder (1 file in each). Doesn't do too much, just corrected a few things. Must get some rest now.......

Andy Watkins

April 12th, 2002, 09:48 AM

Thanks everyone I've downloaded nearly 5 meg of race piccies, will see if I got the right file!

Andy

oleg

April 12th, 2002, 02:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Thanks everyone I've downloaded nearly 5 meg of race piccies, will see if I got the right file!

Andy<hr></blockquote>

See what have you done :

"The web site you are trying to access has exceeded its allocated data transfer. Visit our help area for more information.
Access to this site will be restored within an hour. Please try again later." - this is what I get when I tried to download B5 files.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geocities sucks !

oleg

April 12th, 2002, 02:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Andy Watkins:
Struggling a bit with the piccies.

What I have tried is moving the Earth Alliance directory into the main game pictures/races directory.

When I looked at the others they had about 6 or so .txt files for aggression, facilities etc, these did not appear to be with the race pics on the B5 page, and from what others have said I am not sure if they would work with SEIV gold anyway??

---
Andy<hr></blockquote>

Race AI files are in separate download link "AI files 1.49" and yes, AFAIK, they will not work with Gold. But you can still utilize EA speach file. It is quite hilarious.

Andy Watkins

April 12th, 2002, 02:32 PM

Sorry to be dim, but I have been playing for a couple of weeks (with the speakers switched on!) I get explosions in combat but that is it, I have never heard any voices?

Andy

But you can still utilize EA speach file. It is quite hilarious.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Suicide Junkie

April 12th, 2002, 02:35 PM

It is "AI_speech.TXT", that he is referring to.

Combat should include weapon firing sounds as well as the explosions, but not voices.

Val

April 12th, 2002, 03:34 PM

Andy:

Here are the Gold compatible AIs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

1018617744.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1018617744.zip)

Andy Watkins

April 12th, 2002, 04:50 PM

Dear Suicide Junky,

I meant I didn't get any voices at all anywhere in the game ever, not in combat. Presumably they should be somewhere or there is little point having a speech file?

Andy

It is "AI_speech.TXT", that he is referring to.

Combat should include weapon firing sounds as well as the explosions, but not voices.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Suicide Junkie

April 12th, 2002, 05:01 PM

My point was that it is a text file, not a .wav, .mp3, or some sound format.

The AIs "read speeches" when they send you political Messages. It is text, not voice, and the file causes the various races to use words appropriate to their culture when communicating.

Val

April 12th, 2002, 07:32 PM

Would be great if they do eventually get a few WAVs in the game for each race. Would be cool to hear a voice proposing a treaty or declaring war http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

AI:
Making progress, ships are flying all over the place, colonies springing up sectors away from homeworld! Scout flying about and AI now builds each new shipclass as it becomes available. Having issues with how well armed the ships are, AI prefers to load ship with engines - of course this can be tailored for each individual race as we go along to intentionally stress Speed over FirePower, but I would like to see the AI put in a few more weapons on the generic ships then adjust up/down from there depending on race. I posted a query in the main forum asking for help with a more detailed explanation, go check it out and see what y'all think. Also, once that is fixed I am going to fix the 'lack of armor' on the AI ships.

Vulture-B

April 12th, 2002, 07:53 PM

Hi,

you can find a large load of wav-files at the Babylon 5 Sound Archive (http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/bab5/)

ru

vulture

[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: Vulture-B ]

Andy Watkins

April 12th, 2002, 07:54 PM

Dear all,

Help !

I have broken SEIV. I have loaded lots of new races etc. I have also loaded the new GOLD race ai's that were suggested, but am concerned I have loaded some non gold generic or neutral ai's? Are these gold or non gold?

Message I get it is

"Could not find field percentage of resources to reserve for unit construction in record 1"

The B5 races I set up seemed to work fine. Had about 10 other computer controlled races and about race 5 of these gets this message when I press end of turn.

I am sure I can undo the damage, but not sure which records to get rid of, I reckon it is the neutral or generic races??

Andy

Val

April 12th, 2002, 07:58 PM

What subfolders do you have in your genericraces folder?

Andy Watkins

April 12th, 2002, 11:19 PM

Val,

picture \ race generic \ no sub folders, a lot of files I may have overwritten?

pictures \ race neutral \ (Gaim) (Grome) (Hurr) (Llort) (Mako) (Neutral1) (neutrral2,3,4,5,6) Yolu.

Do you think it is the extra sub directories in the neutral races? Or my possibly overwritting the files in the generic race.

My guess the nuetrals....

Andy

Val

April 12th, 2002, 11:49 PM

Try removing the subfolders for the 'named' neutral races (eg: Gaim) and see what happens.

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 12:25 AM

Val: my baby test of the EA v Hyach is going nicely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So I guess I'll be "enabling" all the rest of the B5 races with the current build and run a larger test run this week-end

Good job!

[ 12 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

capnq

April 13th, 2002, 12:43 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> "Could not find field percentage of resources to reserve for unit construction in record 1" <hr></blockquote> According to History.txt, that line was added to AI_Construction_Units.txt in v1.66, and that file was only added in v1.64.

That narrows down where to look to fix the problem, at least, because that file is ignored if it hasn't been included in the AI's files.

I forget whether I've posted to this thread at all. In case I haven't, I'll put another plug in for my AI conVersion instructions, in the second link in my sig. These instructions get rid of the errors that pre-Gold AIs generate, but don't teach the AI how to use drones.

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 12:50 AM

Val: Drat !

seems the escort size ships revert to "old tricks" by putting an external cargo pod and self-destruct device on them and no reactor. Saw this in escort-sized attack/sat layer/kamikaze ships. The races had just gotten standard engines and medium reactors..

Val

April 13th, 2002, 12:55 AM

Good to hear it is working http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It has been frustrating getting the AI to do what I want, and it is by no means anywhere near finished (even the basic), but it is at least providing me with a challenging game early on, with any luck we can get this developed to the point of a challenge throughout and very individualized races.

Try these files out (you may want to copy the old files elsewhere first), it should give you better results:

AIDATA041202New.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1018652100.zip)

Val

April 13th, 2002, 12:55 AM

Val

April 13th, 2002, 01:05 AM

Spoke too soon... actually, if you still have medium reactors then you definately need to use the latest files posted below. Your components file is out of date. Also, if the reactor is not on every ship built (before the 3rd engine is placed on board) then you are using an older AI_Design file. Both these files and a few other corrections are in the Zip in my Last post. Try loading them in and seeing how they do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

So far, in my test game, I have been spreading as quickly as possible, and was pleasantly surprised to find the Narn, Vorlons and Yolu around me - all with quite a number of worlds setttled (I know it is rather UnVorlon like, but we can work on the Ancient races more later). The Narn were beligerant and went right on the offensive, the Yolu wanted trade in a bad way and the Vorlons... politely asked me to get my ships out of their system before they were 'accidently' lost.

With all luck the next set of revisions to the base AI will get me far enough that I can start some basic AIs for each of the races (would prefer to see the Narn using Narn weapons instead of the same old BLast Guns everyone else is using).

Anyway, back to work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 01:11 AM

Ach, thought it might be that. Me gonna d/L those files and re-build the mod my end. hehe, they ARE being rather aggressive (Hyach and EA).

I'll enable the others as I said...while I "re-build"....

Val

April 13th, 2002, 01:19 AM

BTW - in case you were wondering:

The External Cargo Pods are being put on because the ship sees them as Armor (which is an ability they have, to represent the fact they are usually hit first in combat). To get around this I lowered the Armor number in the AI_design to 0 and will add a different ability to all of SJs current armors so we can control the AI better.

Reactor Issue - Added this as a required ability with different sizes for each group of ship classes (well Scout through Super Dreadnought at the moment plus the generics the game comes with).

Engine Issue - After finally figuring out how the AI loads the ship up and with confirmation from SJ, the engines are now just enough to get the ship moving at a standard pace with extra engines added in after all other components are slapped on. Engines are also now all around the same size.

Self-Destruct - Removed the component from the AI_Design for now, didn't see too many people destroying their ships in B5 to avoid capture. Though some races will have this as part of their racial identity. Just means we'll have to make sure security teams are researched sooner to protect from takeover.

Andy Watkins

April 13th, 2002, 01:20 AM

Struggling a bit with the piccies.

What I have tried is moving the Earth Alliance directory into the main game pictures/races directory.

When I looked at the others they had about 6 or so .txt files for aggression, facilities etc, these did not appear to be with the race pics on the B5 page, and from what others have said I am not sure if they would work with SEIV gold anyway??

So I copied all the files from "Terran" into Earth alliance and changed their names. This seems to be OK and seems to work?

Did I do the right thing just to get the pictures?

Any ideas as a quick fix which .txt files I should copy for narn, vorlons, shadows etc,

or am I doing it wrong

or are the .txt files available that work on SEIV gold.

or is it irrelevant what these files are anyway??

Ta

Andy

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 01:28 AM

Andy: Terran to EA txt files will work. Not sure whch "stock" races match up to the other B5 races but doing similar opration that you did with the EA will work across the board.

I haven't tried the B5 Gold AI yet...

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 02:43 AM

hehe..Thanks Val and S/J. Got me dandy going, even if only with general light weapons and slow but long-legged (depending on race) ships. LNAW and ShagToth are going at tooth and claw...

No major bugs seen with the new files so far

Val

April 13th, 2002, 03:01 AM

I'm almost done with basic (general) weapon AIs, it now progresses as the AI researches more powerful weapons rather than a straight shot of Light Bolt Cannons. Next stop is armor then targeting/ECM systems!

Val

April 13th, 2002, 05:56 PM

I'm getting ready for the next step for the AI and had a question for y'all:

I need to assign point costs to the various racial traits. In general most races get a bunch of specials for their race (weapons, components and eventually facilities), some only get the basics plus their rather pathetic technology, a few have more powerful weapons in general and some get access to ancient tech.

What I was thinking, was to base the race cost on the 'age' the race falls into on the show - since the technology in the game is based on the level they achieved by the time of the show.

So:

Fledgling Races (like Grome & Hurr) - 100
Young Races (EA, Narn, Centauri) - 250
Midborn Races (Minbari, Yolu, Hyach) - 500
Ancient Races (Vorlons, Shadows) - 750 (this is actually 2 racial abilities)

What do y'all think?

pathfinder

April 13th, 2002, 06:13 PM

Sounds ok to me. I didn't get to watch much B5 so I'll defer to those who did.

TheGunslinger

April 13th, 2002, 10:48 PM

I fine with it, sounds good, though arent the Humans more "advanced" or "wiser/older" whatever, than the Narn Regime ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Val

April 13th, 2002, 11:09 PM

The Narn actually had space flight and more advanced weapons before the humans, stolen from the Centauri of course (or is that 'reappropriated'). There is some variance between the main 'young' species, but it is a relatively level playing field. The Minbari would be a step up, the Vorlons would be a jump up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

TheGunslinger

April 14th, 2002, 12:52 AM

oh didnt knew that :]

well the reason i like Babylon 5 are mainly the wars and combats in space. it just looks fcking great :] though i know a bit from the background story, still you know more, Val http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Andy Watkins

April 14th, 2002, 01:30 AM

Val,

I deleted everything I could think of and it made no difference ot the error message so I reinstalled the entire game, and JUST copied in the pictures / races / earth alliance files. I can now play as sheriden. All other races are standard SEIV. Will do for now!

Andy

Try removing the subfolders for the 'named' neutral races (eg: Gaim) and see what happens.

Val

April 14th, 2002, 05:12 AM

Gunslinger:
That's what drew me in as well and is what I am hoping for in the mod (with time).

Andy:
You have Gold, right? I will try to check all the B5 Gold AI sometime this week and repost in an 'easier to use' format. One thing MM recomends is that you create a subfolder in the SEIV folder andd put all your mod stuff in there, then use mod launcher (which is on the CD) to run the mod. This way, if you mess something up in the mod, you don't mess up your game. The way the whole B5Mod started for me was when I was trying to collect all the B5 races in one mod folder to play normal SE IV, then I got this bright idea...

Fyron

April 14th, 2002, 06:58 AM

Is the game going to be scaled similar to the Proportions Mod in regards to homeworlds and colonies? This would be most appropriate to B5, since there are few colony worlds (mostly controlled by older races) that posess similar levels of production as the homeworlds.

Andy Watkins

April 14th, 2002, 09:48 PM

Val,

Yep I have SEIV Gold and modded it up to 1.67 with the latest patch

Andy

Andy:
You have Gold, right? I will try to check all the B5 Gold AI sometime this week and repost in an 'easier to use' format. One thing MM recomends is that you create a subfolder in the SEIV folder andd put all your mod stuff in there, then use mod launcher (which is on the CD) to run the mod. This way, if you mess something up in the mod, you don't mess up your game. The way the whole B5Mod started for me was when I was trying to collect all the B5 races in one mod folder to play normal SE IV, then I got this bright ide

Suicide Junkie

April 14th, 2002, 10:26 PM

Fyron:

Colony construction rate begins at 10%.
Add +1% for every 25M people after that

Resource production follows a sine wave up from 0% @ zero people, peaking at 225% for populations between 520M and 620M, and then falling to 100% at 1.73 Billion population.

Val

April 15th, 2002, 06:30 AM

IF:

As SJ posted, he had the pop proportions thing done a while back, though I may ask PvK if he minds us stealing a page from Proportions in using the "Cultural Centers". I had had a similar idea for the B5 Mod with multifunction 'cities', 'mining colonies', 'Centauri Houses' and so forth, but hadn't thought it out to the extent PvK had (kudos to him). Once the basic stuff is done (we are almost there) we will move on to facilities and then (finally) each race will be fleshed out with extra goodies. Should make for a diverse game.

Andy:
Once I test the Gold AI I will post and let you know.

Val

April 15th, 2002, 06:35 AM

Maint rates are going to have to be adjusted as well, else there is no way you could maintain the huge B5 fleets. My favorite quote was for the Gaim race (which only has a single homeworld, no colonies) saying they had a small fleet... of a couple thousand ships!

Fyron

April 15th, 2002, 07:05 AM

SJ:
So, which production curve is that, the P&N one or the Proportions one? Or is it a new one? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Val:
Small fleet of 1000s of ships? Damn. What would they consider a large fleet? 100000000? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Technically, Shadow and Vorlon ships should be maintainence free. They are completely self sufficient. And besides, all of the Shadow fleet remained in hibernation for 1000 years, all without any resource production what so ever (at least by the Shadows themselves; their "allies" still did stuff during that time period, but nothing could have gotten to the ships).

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2002, 06:48 PM

So, which production curve is that, the P&N one or the Proportions one? Or is it a new one?
That is the one from the B5 datafiles.
I think I'm using the same thing for P&N v2.6

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Technically, Shadow and Vorlon ships should be maintainence free. They are completely self sufficient. And besides, all of the Shadow fleet remained in hibernation for 1000 years, all without any resource production what so ever (at least by the Shadows themselves; their "allies" still did stuff during that time period, but nothing could have gotten to the ships).<hr></blockquote>Sounds like mothballing to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Something like a -98% to maintenance built into the hulls of ships, and -99% for bases?
In that case, purchasing racial maintenance bonuses can reduce your maintenance from 2% down to 0.5%

A ship would be good for 50 turns before you've paid enough maintenance to buy a new one.

Val

April 15th, 2002, 06:52 PM

It's the same as the P&N one (IIRC).

I can't recall, but the Earth Force fleet was incredibly HUGE in the 'official' storyline - some ridiculous amount! So I think adjustments will have to be made to maint. Also, been trying to figure out a way to do the Ancients so they aren't really building colonies and spreading about the universe at large. Rather have them more nomadic. What's the opinion of Joe (or Jane) Public?

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2002, 08:26 PM

Remember that SE4 has a limit of 10,000 ships & bases, and human players can't be expected to deal with that many ships. Scale down the numbers to manageable levels first, and then reduce the maintenance appropriately.

Giving the ancient races powerful remote extraction tech would cause them to generally drift around, holding only a few colonies for maintaining contact with aliens, and to get research points.

thorfrog

April 15th, 2002, 08:36 PM

I'd like to make a recomendation. You may want to think about simplifing the engine tech. Maybe getting it back to the way SEIV origanlly had set for them. Customize around that in stead of the Quasi-Neutonian Version. I think it would make developement a little bit easier.

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2002, 08:53 PM

From what I've heard, it is not the QNP itself that is causing the biggest problems. It is the many different sizes of engines (Small, medium, large, massive) The AIs always like to add the biggest engines, and that throws things out of whack, especially on the smallest shipsizes.

Joe Public (#7)

April 15th, 2002, 08:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I can't recall, but the Earth Force fleet was incredibly HUGE in the 'official' storyline - some ridiculous amount! So I think adjustments will have to be made to maint... What's the opinion of Joe (or Jane) Public?<hr></blockquote>

Now I'm not sure of Jane's opinion, but I'm thinking that the ship numbers have got to come down a bit. 10 000 ships is just too much micromanagement, at least the way the game interface is currently set up, for one person to follow.
Of course Joe Public is hoping that B5 and Sci-Fi mods will one day fuse, so for his sake, consider bringing the number of ships in B5 to lower values (or make the ships weaker, but that's a poorer option).

PvK

April 15th, 2002, 09:12 PM

Hmm. I'm just popping into this thread and reading a few Messages back, and have almost no Babylon 5 knowledge, but here are some thoughts on the question of trying to mod based on a universe with 10000-ship fleets.

1. The latest gold patch actually allows 20,000 max ships and bases in space, per player!

2. How many inhabited systems is the B5 populated part of the galaxy supposed to contain? Perhaps a game of SE4 could just represent one part of the whole region, so the player isn't supreme emperor, but a regional governor?

3. You could just assume that in reality, each ship would be about ten, fifty, or a hundred actual ships in the B5 universe, but is numerically simplified for sanity's sake.

4. If B5 has a large difference in size of ships (for instance, the 10,000 ship fleet consists of 10 flag ships, 100 capital ships, 1000 medium ships, and 8,990 comparitively tiny ships, then you could define ship sizes (and/or fighter sizes, and/or drone sizes) that represent squadrons of smaller ships, especially if they tend to operate that way in the B5 fiction.

Just some ideas...

PvK

Val

April 15th, 2002, 10:16 PM

Engines:
The engine thing has been pretty much resolved, by knocking all engines down to the same size (roughly). In all my tests this seems to be working very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

10,000 Ships:
Heh, I wasn't actually hoping for that many ships, not without an equally large fleet of administrators to watch over them. I was just hoping for slightly larger fleets with less maint cost. As PvK said, we don't need fleets of 1000s of ships - and ships can represent squadrons. In my test games I only had a few fleets of no more than a score of ships. As SJ said, we get it working first then scale the maint.

Joe Public:
Well, I did ask for your opinion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yeah, the goal is to make it easy, fun and ultimately mergable with other mods.

Suicide Junkie

April 15th, 2002, 10:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>2. How many inhabited systems is the B5 populated part of the galaxy supposed to contain? Perhaps a game of SE4 could just represent one part of the whole region, so the player isn't supreme emperor, but a regional governor?<hr></blockquote>
Earth Force is just that. Earth. Maybe a little trade with Mars, and the occasional scientific outpost.

[ 15 April 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Fyron

April 15th, 2002, 11:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Sounds like mothballing to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Something like a -98% to maintenance built into the hulls of ships, and -99% for bases?
In that case, purchasing racial maintenance bonuses can reduce your maintenance from 2% down to 0.5%

A ship would be good for 50 turns before you've paid enough maintenance to buy a new one.<hr></blockquote>
Mothballing would require the Shadows to have a large storage of resources to use to unmothball their ships, which they just don't have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And they'd need space yards on all those random planets and moons where they kept their ships.

That system could work, as long as you can also reduce the number of colonies that they make.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Earth Force is just that. Earth. Maybe a little trade with Mars, and the occasional scientific outpost.<hr></blockquote>
The Earth Alliance has 24 worlds in 14 star systems (http://www.oinc.net/B5/Enc/display.php?ea).

Suicide Junkie

April 16th, 2002, 02:59 AM

"The Earth Alliance has 24 worlds in 14 star systems"
Ah, I had no idea.
From the descriptions there, they all seem to be very small. Can any of them make a serious contribution to the space forces?

ZeroAdunn

April 16th, 2002, 03:54 AM

Most of those colonies aren't very developed.

Colonists aren't moved around that easy too either.

The shadow ships require very little support, one survived on mars for how long and still came back Online fully functional?

Val

April 16th, 2002, 03:56 AM

Even though EA has 24 worlds in the alliance (many are independent colonies that are only part of the EA for military protection and still have a great deal of independence), Earth is the only 'homeworld' class world. Mars comes a close second and only had something like 3Mil people, and the planet still relied on domes for atmosphere.

This is what I'd like to reflect more of in the facility/colonizing side of the game. I see colony ships costing more and different facilities being added, also going to something more like the proportions Cultural Centers for the homeworlds to increase their importance and contribution to founding the colonies yet maintaining a level of superiority that colonies could only hope to achieve in many, many, many years.

pathfinder

April 16th, 2002, 04:24 AM

Val: Is this why it takes 2.5 - 4.0 years to build space ports, resupply depots and shipyards? just wondering, as I thought that might be the case when I was testing stuff...

Fyron

April 16th, 2002, 05:39 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>The shadow ships require very little support, one survived on mars for how long and still came back Online fully functional?<hr></blockquote>
~1000 years. They had hundreds (if not thousands) of ships in the exact same situation as the one on Mars.

Val

April 16th, 2002, 03:38 PM

Yeah, that is part of why it took so long. Facilities are actually going to be multifunctional, rather than single purpose (other than the monoliths).

Here's what I was thinking about:

Facility What it does
Homeworld S.Port, Res Gen/Store, Intel/Res Gen
Colony Same as homeworld but at lower levels
Manufacturing Col Storage, Space Yard, Sup Generation, S.Port
Mining Colony Res Gen/Store (Min & Rad)
Agressive Min Col Same, but reduces planet value and condition
Agricultural Col Res Gen/Store (Org)
Depot Res & Cargo Storage, Sup Gen
Arceological Site Research Gen + ??
Military Outpost Training, Supply Gen, Cargo Stor, Reduced Maint
Listening Post LR Sensors, Intel Gen
Ship Yard Space Yard, Comp Repair, Cargo Store
Medical Center Plague Prevention, Pop Happy, Research Gen
Recycling Center Resource Reclaimation

As tech advanced, there would be better Versions of some of these facilities - with higher yields or extra abilities (eg: Med Center - Mod Reproduction, Mining Col - Improve % for system). There would also be a few special facilities for the races, like:

Psi Core (EA) Intel +%, Change Bad Intel Chance
Great House (Cent) Various production bonuses
Hive (Gaim) All in one, very productive, suffers on Intel/Research
Corp Cntr (Brkiri) Res bonuses
Relig Cntr (Min) Less Bad Events, Pop Happy, better Research

We could also add cities of various sizes (like in proportions).

What do y'all think?

Val

April 17th, 2002, 05:50 PM

I know some people were having trouble with which data/ai files to use in the mod.

Here are ALL the files for the following Folders:

/B5Mod/Modinfo.txt - Replaces file
/B5Mod/AI/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Data/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Dsgnname/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Empires/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Pictures/RaceNeutral/"Race"/ - Replaces AI for all B5 Neutral races
/B5Mod/Pictures/Races/"Race"/ - Replaces AI for all B5 races

Be sure to delete all the AI files that already exist in the /B5Mod/Pictures/Races/"Race"/ directories before installing the new ones as all the AIs are not yet complete and need to default to the generic AI.

DataAI041602.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1019058112.zip)

Andy Watkins

April 17th, 2002, 09:04 PM

Val,

Are these the mod files for the GOLDVersion of SEIV, 1.67 patched even??

If YES, would you mind mentioning how you are supposed to apply a whole mod, do you just unzip the files, replace existing ones, or use some form of mod tool off the CD???

Ta very much

Andy

/B5Mod/Modinfo.txt - Replaces file
/B5Mod/AI/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Data/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Dsgnname/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Empires/ - Replaces all
/B5Mod/Pictures/RaceNeutral/"Race"/ - Replaces AI for all B5 Neutral races
/B5Mod/Pictures/Races/"Race"/ - Replaces AI for all B5 races

Be sure to delete all the AI files that already exist in the /B5Mod/Pictures/Races/"Race"/ directories before installing the new ones as all the AIs are not yet complete and need to default to the generic AI.

DataAI041602.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1019058112.zip)[/QB][/QUOTE]

Val

April 17th, 2002, 09:23 PM

Sorry, the AI/Data files are for 1.49 still, once we have completed the mod and it works in 1.49 we will convert it over to Gold.

To apply these files to a 'whole mod', you need to make a subfolder in your SEIV GOLD folder and call it B5Mod, then you would copy in the folders following the same structure as in the SEIV Gold base folder (AI - Data - Dsgname - Empires - Pictures - etc. folders), though you would only copy over the new stuff to those folders. The you can use ModLauncher to choose this Mod and play it.

By putting it in it's own folder and choosing that mod, what will happen is that the game will first look in that directory for the needed files, then move to the base directory for any files it doesn't find there. So, you could just put all the Races in the Pictures folder (even without AI) and have a 'mod' that would feature the B5 races but uses the generic AI for them.

Val

April 17th, 2002, 11:41 PM

More good news, the Spaceports site is back up - though I do need to update it!

I am thinking about posting the mod as one zip called "CoreMod-Version###" and then post zips for "ClassicDataAI-V##" and "GoldDataAI-V##". Then post any updates to the Core seperately.

What do y'all think?

B5 Mod Homepage (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~b5mod/)

Fyron

April 17th, 2002, 11:56 PM

Posting the whole thing in one file would be good.

Did they ever respond to your request for a space upgrade?

Val

April 18th, 2002, 12:08 AM

I'm up to 35 MB, so I can post the files in the 'new' format later this week. Hopefully it will save people some headaches. Also, by making a 'core' section people who want Gold B5 can at least have the framework for their game - even if it is only using the basic AI from Gold.

pathfinder

April 18th, 2002, 12:30 AM

Val: whatever works between you and spaceports. as long as an explanantion is given there or here as to how/what on d/l and placement of files(me being a simple minded person http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

[ 18 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Tnarg

April 18th, 2002, 03:10 AM

I noticed that this seems to be a pretty extensive project. I was kind of curious if someone on the inside might be able to give a synopsis of what exactly the BAB 5 is going to offer. I suppose I could read the 627 Posts to this thread but that could be pretty time consuming. Also I am curious if there may be a projected date that this may be unveiled to the public for use. I appreciate it, and am a big Bab 5 show fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

April 18th, 2002, 03:21 AM

Well, my participation is merely a johny-come-lately beta tester for the group. From my (sorta, somewhat) objective view, Val and the others are trying to make an SEIV mod that can be as true and "realistic" to the TV show as is feasible within the SEIV game engine.

Gonna be tough to do but it sure seems like they are going to, at least, make a VERY interesting and different mod. Unique weapons for each race (12? or more races), possibly some proportions mod type stuff, other unique race stuff/sbilities...and this is a VERY short list http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Been interesting and fun testing so far! (aside from losing some of my hair trying figure out 1 challenge..hehe)

Fyron

April 18th, 2002, 05:36 AM

Val:
You should put a link to the sight in your sig.

Val

April 18th, 2002, 06:14 PM

Ok, I've uploaded all the files in a more user friendly download. I am working on the webpage now that explains what you need to do to get it running. What I'll most likely do is make the Geocities site (the old homepage) into a place where you can d/l the individual Groups of files (like it was) and the Spaceports site the 'all-in-one' d/l. By tomorrow it should be up and running.

TNARG:
Go check out the website B5 Mod Homepage (http://galileo.spaceports.com/~b5mod/) and check the history and info pages. Our goal is (as Pathfinder put so well) to make a mod that will give the player the feel of the B5 Universe. This includes a lot of reworked art (ship components, warp points look like jump gates, events, races, etc.), new weapons (based on the AoG B5 Wars ship combat game) and a bit more of a 'realistic' feel (like proportions). The mod is playable, although the AI is currently only using the basic weapons (unique racial AIs have not yet been built) it does work well for human v. human. Give it a try, updates will be posted on the website (with notification here), so once you download the core mod and the 1.49Data files you will be able to keep up to date. Let us know what you like/don't like.

Pathfinder:
Thanks for the kind words and compliments http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We can only hope it is enjoyable once it is done!

IF:
Done.

[ 18 April 2002: Message edited by: Val ]

Tnarg

April 19th, 2002, 07:55 AM

WHHOOOAAAAHHHH! I just downloaded the core b5mod, and I must say that I can hardly contain myself.
This is super, exactly what I have been looking and waiting for, well not exactly, but pretty darn close. So does anyone have an inkling of when perhaps this little gem may come together?

I am also glad to hear that aspects of the Proportions Mod are or perhaps may be incorportated. It just seems to add a bit more realism.

Please say that the finished Version (I completely understand that there is a great deal of work going into this)is just around the corner.
Swell, keep up the good work, looks excellant so far.

Val

April 19th, 2002, 08:01 PM

Tnarg:
Glad you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The next release should have a few 'proportions' like mods made to it, and hopefully AI for the individual races. Rambie is also working on Victory/Defeat pics and those should be included as well. I am also working on the jump gate open/close animation for when a new gate is open or an old gate falls into disrepair (right now a warp point opens). SJ is working on specialty armors, and Master B is looking at the AI. SO, not right around the corner, but close!

Everyone (including Lurkers):
Anyone who has downloaded the whole shebang, I would love to hear what you like and don't like so far. What does it need to feel more like "B5"? How is the generic AI so far? Do you want anything else as we develop it?

Thanks!

Tnarg

April 19th, 2002, 08:13 PM

I've noticed in the Pictures folder that there are quiet a few files for new component art; however, when I load a game it is the regular SEIV components. Am I forgetting to do something?

Also the ship-sets look outstanding. My only gripe where that several races (namely the main ones) had the same weapons platforms, satelites, mines, or even space stations. I don't know, just an observation. Other than that woooahh.

pathfinder

April 20th, 2002, 12:29 AM

tnarg: naw, the AI files haven't been loaded with the race-specific stuff IIRC. For instance the Minbari and a coupla other races use a special race-specific crew quarters which you see IF you have the AI setup to get them (or you do it yourself). Also the Race-specific weapons haven't been enabled in the research.txt files or designcreation.txt files. They will be sometime (and trust they are pretty neat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Val, et al: hehe, I d/l the latest build and will let ya'll know what I think in my usual, socially despicable manner http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 19 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 20th, 2002, 02:32 AM

Small thing noted: several of the generic pics have "generic" spelled wrong.

Also the intro screen rocks!

AI (EA) is producing ships (escorts mostly) but the mineral/radioactive production can't keep up (*shrug* so what else in new...this been an old problem IIRC)

[ 20 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 20 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

April 20th, 2002, 03:27 PM

Hehe, I wonder what the Minbari are up to, they just finished researching planetary weapons and got mass drivers I & II. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So far so good....no big glitches...

Rich04

April 20th, 2002, 04:57 PM

Very nice. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I am playing EA and there seem to be missing pic's. Comps 697 and 702 fighter engines. There may be others but I havn't run across them yet.

Also when a fighter is created by the AI it will show a speed 6-8 in the design screen. This normally would mean speed 3-4 in combat. Instead they have only a move of only 1. Slower than that of ships. I believe this is due to it not being given a fuel source.

[ 20 April 2002: Message edited by: Rich04 ]

Suicide Junkie

April 20th, 2002, 05:34 PM

I suggest building a primary reactor right into the fighter hull. You could then add secondary powerplants if you want your fighters to carry bigger-than normal guns.

pathfinder

April 20th, 2002, 08:04 PM

There are fission/fusion/gravimetric, etc cells that are the fighter power supply http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , so those have to be placed into the fighter hull for "supplies"...

Fyron

April 20th, 2002, 09:21 PM

The Gaim Light Cruiser bmp is named:
Gaim_Mini_LighttCruiser

And the Medium Fighter is named:
Gaim_Portrait_FighterMed

[ 20 April 2002: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

ZeroAdunn

April 20th, 2002, 11:47 PM

Is there any way you could split up the download of the B5modcore file? 16.8 megs on a dialup is going to take a loooonnnngggg time.

pathfinder

April 20th, 2002, 11:49 PM

I think Val is but at a different site ZeroAdunn.

pathfinder

April 22nd, 2002, 01:42 AM

Whoever has the B5mod email: Please look for an e-mail from me. Bug report sent earlier today

Val

April 22nd, 2002, 07:05 PM

Tnarg:

I would like to see a the racial pics changed as well, and that is something that will happen in time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PF:

Spelled Generic wrong? Must ahve been a long night... Have to fix that. You can thank Rambie for the cool intro screen. He's also working on some victory/defeat pics.

Is it only the EA AI that is running out?

Also, got your SAV and I will load it to see what is going on.

Rich04:

Like the quote in your sig! I think those 2 pics aren't made yet, will make them and post this week. I believe I may have forgotten to tell the AI to give fighters a fuel cell, I will remedy that in the next AI and DATA post (also see the SJ note below).

SJ:

Do you think it would be better to build the fuel cell in, or just make the AI put it on? I can do the same thing I did for the reactors on ships.

IF:

More spelling erorsr http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , I ficks them aswell.

ZeroAdunn:

I am working on posting a splitup Version at the older Yahoo site. I'll post here when I finish.

Suicide Junkie

April 22nd, 2002, 07:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>SJ:

Do you think it would be better to build the fuel cell in, or just make the AI put it on? I can do the same thing I did for the reactors on ships.<hr></blockquote>I was thinking both http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Give a decent Built-In reactor (cell), and have the option of adding more power if you want the fighter to have more range and/or big, powerhungry guns.

pathfinder

April 22nd, 2002, 08:55 PM

Val: EA, Centauri, and either ShagToth or Hyach (uses generic AI only)..... LNAW were in fine shape as were the Minbari. Seems this is either early or mid game problem as I met the EA in another game later 1 on 1 and they did not have that problem.

On the SAV: Not sure what was going on...1st the RCE showed against EA, I went to them, seemed to go away, then showed up with Centauri...never found cause of it there and it didn't go away. Shame too, was shapeing up nicely.

One note: seems the Minbari and LNAW get along great. every time they start near each other they go straight to a partnership..
[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 22 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Val

April 23rd, 2002, 01:37 AM

Good to hear the LNAW allies with the Minbari, LNAW is supposed to be mostly friendly and partnership oriented, Centauri/Narn are too hot headed to ally I would imagine. Not so sure 'bout the EA.

I will work on all the mentioned things. Need to try to track down that error too, I don't want to get that far and have to give up!

pathfinder

April 23rd, 2002, 01:52 AM

What causes RCEs? I got one in a 1 v1 of the ShagToth vs Hyach. I am playing as ShagToth with minimal AI ministers. Sure it is something in the Hyach (some action) but sure what to look for..

Rio

April 23rd, 2002, 04:54 AM

Anyone know how to get the Babylon 5 mod (ships/ai/data) to work on a stock Version of SEIV:Gold? This is the first mod I have tried, and I just get errors when I try to just throw the files in the directories, or use the included mod launcher from the CD.

The errors include things like "Cannot find field "..." in record 1."

Thanks for any help you can give.

pathfinder

April 23rd, 2002, 06:05 AM

Rio: You won't at the moment. Strictly v 1.49. You CAN use the shipsets, just not the AI and data and components files...yet...the mod is being tested on V 1.49 first then on to Gold... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Rio

April 23rd, 2002, 06:17 AM

Crud, I was really looking forward to playing with the modified techs and AI's. The ships look great though.

Well, when time comes around for testing with Gold, feel free to email me.

Suicide Junkie

April 23rd, 2002, 03:51 PM

Don't worry.
Once the 1.49 Version is done, the gold Version can be created from it in an hour or two.

Rio

April 23rd, 2002, 04:43 PM

Aye, and therein lies the rub.

How long do you expect it will take for the 1.49 finished? I'm not exactly sure how long mods for SEIV take.

Val

April 23rd, 2002, 09:21 PM

Has anyone else encountered the RCEs? I can't seem to lock down the whys, not sure if it has something to do with one of the Generic AI files or what...

We're getting a bit closer to finished with the mod, I plan to spend some time this weekend on the facilities and then the AI to use/research said facilities.

pathfinder

April 24th, 2002, 03:07 AM

Val: I pulled this from a search on RCE's:

Atrocities: "RCE's can be caused by many differant things. I would recommend that you uninstall and reinstall the game. Then add your extra's one at a time. Most RCE's were caused by Computer Controlled AI trying to do something really dumb like refit a ship that could not be refit."

I'll try turning off a minister at a time to see if I can get past the RCEs..

Hmmm...could not get past in that LNAW RCE but in the ShagToth/Hyach game I had one in, I went to the Hyach, turned off design minister for 3-4 turns and no RCE. *shrug*

BTW silly AI (Hyach) is sticking like a bunch of Advanced fission engines to make a movement of 24 with only one 1 mine sweeper component in a cruiser based minesweeper http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . They use a default AI from the AI folder...

[ 24 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

[ 24 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Val

April 24th, 2002, 05:28 PM

Thanks for the research!!!

You know what, I'm looking at the AI after what you said, and I only ever really fully updated the Attack ships. I need to finish the AI for the other ship, fighter, troop types. Then maybe these RCEs will go away.

Klebdog

April 24th, 2002, 07:49 PM

Val,
I'm back and I just found a cool website that has some very cool ship sets for the B5 mod you are working on. It's "Ultradrive.com/b5.htm", you probably already have this but I thought you may like it anyway. Plus anyone else who is interested can check it out.
Klebdog

Rambie

April 25th, 2002, 02:53 AM

I'm looking for a few players for a B5 MOD Multiplayer game for SE4 Classic... anyone interested let me know via Email.

pathfinder

April 25th, 2002, 03:13 AM

Val: I shut the AI down completely in my little ShagToth/Hyach test game and got past the RCE there. I did notice that it was doing a good bit of calling a ship a new design but a message would pop up and say "designame X is a duplicate of designame Y".... wonder if this has something to do with the RCE? One of the shipss ( an escort I believe) was being retrofitted within a fleet but after I shut the AI down that stopped the retrofit and the ship went on its merry way with the fleet and missing a component (not sure if it was an engine or weapon)...

UPDATE: At least in this ShagToth/Hyach game shutting off the design minister seems to enable getting past the RCE in this game. The re was a message about a duplcate ship design/retrofit...

[ 25 April 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Val

April 25th, 2002, 03:20 PM

I would be interested in a PBW test run, though it will depend on available time - as I just switched job locations.

I've been reworking the AI, and think I may be close to fixing some of the RCEs, hoping to have one for y'all this weekend.

Val

May 3rd, 2002, 04:51 PM

I have some new updates I will be posting soon - which include reworked facilities, some new ship types (including Repair Tugs), typo fixes, added stars to Nebula/Black Holes (for reactors to work right) and AI_Designs for everything from Fighters through Planet Killers. Right now I am just trying to find out how to pick the starting facilities.

In the works I have specialty facilities for some of the races (the main ones and some of the major LNAW races), new weapons, new specialty race components and some new art.

Sorry for the delay since the Last post, been busy!

pathfinder

May 3rd, 2002, 10:34 PM

S'ok Val. R/L can be a drag. And with the size of that components file to deal with...whew.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 3rd, 2002, 10:57 PM

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Here are the latest batch of changes to the Data and AI files:

DataAI050302.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1020458784.zip)

The new AI for ship construction is not yet in there as I am still testing it, but it does have revised facilities (more will follow once these are tested) and some new ship types (repair tugs).

Just unzip the file to your B5Mod directory and let it replace the old files.

As usual, let me know what errors you find.

Also, does anyone have any ideas for race-specific facilities and abilities for them? Some of the ones I came up with:

Psi Core Base (EA) - Improved Intel, Pop Happiness decrease, less chance of bad event/intel

Great House (Centauri) - Improved Version on Manufacturing center, reduce planet value (they had a habit of 'raping' worlds)

Religious Center (Minbari/Markab) - Improved Hap, Combat bonus in system, bonus research

Hive (Gaim) - Increased production, less research

Corporate Center (Brakiri) - Production bonuses

Now y'all give me some suggestions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

pathfinder

May 4th, 2002, 04:03 AM

I am 50 turns in and so far so good.

Hehe, it sure takes awhile to build hubs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ 04 May 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Gil Hamilton

May 4th, 2002, 09:24 AM

Thought it'd be different to have the 666 post here.

VAL- Some suggestions...

1) Psi Corps

2) I'll have to check out the mods, but Minbari facilities might also include something with increased production for the worker class, and something with an incresed ability or two for the warrior class. It was rumored they were delving into bio-organic tech. 3 basic Minbari Languages and 97 different subtongues should make for interesting scenario possibilities with these guys!

3)How about some of that excellent tech. only breifly glimpsed at down on Epsilon 3 (planet Bab 5 orbits)?

4) Not too sure about reduced Hap. for Psi Corps facilities- but how about intel centers with 2x, 3x, or even 4x effectiveness over regular ones with appropriate research branch, or, just th Nx modifier to reg. ones?

Can't wait to get into the new mods! Give a "hollar" if you'd like a hand in ship graphics area. I'd offer more, but not edumacated enough in modding yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ 04 May 2002: Message edited by: Gil Hamilton ]

[ 04 May 2002: Message edited by: Gil Hamilton ]

pathfinder

May 5th, 2002, 01:48 AM

Val: I like the premise of these hubs (and the other facilities). While they take awhile to build, they make sense in a "realism" type of sense. Also they will make strategy much different (IMHO). Is this an idea from the proportions mod?

pathfinder

May 5th, 2002, 03:33 PM

1 minor quibble: on the research colony---it should be spelled: archaeological.

hehe, this Version has me intrigued..the hubs are provided some thought(uses, when/where to build, etc)

[ 05 May 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 5th, 2002, 04:45 PM

One thing puzzeling me: All the races, if at war early in game, seem to have a heck of a time allocating resources (they run out)...

They are also doing a lot of designing "new" ships which are actually duplicates, therefore generating an error message.

[ 05 May 2002: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Val

May 6th, 2002, 05:45 PM

Gil:

Psi Corp will appear for the EA as a facility (or two), some special ship components and possibly the Black Omega Squadron.

The Epsilon 5 style techs will be available as 'Runins Techs', in fact, once the mod is done that will be the only way to get a planetary gun (Weapon platforms will be vanishing as they was no real evidence/mention of planet based defenses).

I was going to do the reduced happiness because of the uneasiness humans have towards psykers.

If you are up for some art work, I am trying to find screen shot examples of the computer screens to work on the interface. Also, if you would like to do a shipset, there are many races that could use more ships (Drazi, Brakiri, Vree)

Pathfinder:

The Hubs are inspired from the 'realism' in the proportions mod and accented by SJs pop production curve. One way to speed their production is to ship in more colonists. The costs are actually based on the original SE IV facility costs, but you pay for everything in it (I broke down how many minerals per point) and then added organic and mineral costs. They are meant to slow down expansion. I am adding ship components next that will allow more diverse fleets, things that will effect maint costs.

More spelling errors! You should have been around during the fission/fusion mess!

Hmm, you're right about the races designing too often. I will test more and I think I may up the starting resources a bit to help the AI out.

Any ideas from anyone on how to slow designs down?

Captain Kwok

May 6th, 2002, 05:55 PM

I not a big fan of the Babylon 5 series, but I downloaded the Bab 5 Mod and took a look around. I must say that I am very impressed by the amount of work that has gone into the files and graphics. Well done.

After this, any chance of working on a Star Trek Mod? I think such a product could use your dedication.

ts22

May 6th, 2002, 07:16 PM

I also recently checked out this mod and was amazed at the level of detail. I kind of wish I knew more about B5, it's too bad they don't have reruns on tv. The show must have been great to attract such a devout following. Besides, after watching the show, I might have an idea about what the races are supposed to be all about!
As for the Trek mod, I posted to the SciFi Crossover topic to find out what the status was but no one replied. I assume the Trek part of the SciFi Crossover mod never got completed. Anyway, although I have no graphic/drawing abilites, I would be willing to help on AI, descriptions, etc. if someone was to get a Trek mod started.
Regardless, great work on this mod!

wr8th

May 6th, 2002, 07:20 PM

The reruns are on Sci-Fi

ts22

May 6th, 2002, 07:57 PM

Ok, what I meant to say was that I don't have the Sci-Fi channel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

wr8th

May 6th, 2002, 08:13 PM

Wow, someone whose cable sucks worse than mine (assuming you have cable). I didn't think it possible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Truly, if not for Sci-Fi, TNN and THC (the History Channel, not the plant product) I'd probably kill my TV.

Val

May 6th, 2002, 09:37 PM

Capt. Kwok:

Love the Geezoid pic in your sig, looks cool!

Glad you liked what you saw, we're hoping to make something that is SE based, yet give it a more 'unique' feel.

I know there were some people working on a Star Trek Mod as part of a Sci-Fi crossover between SW, ST & B5, but I haven't heard much in a while. I can't speak for anyone else working on this, but I know I'd be more than happy to help with a Trek Mod once we get this more or less done.

TS22:

Thanks for the compliment as well, a lot of people have worked hard to get this mod going, with any luck it will be a good simulation of the B5 universe. You may want to post in the Sci-Fi x-over mod thread again, or maybe start a new thread and try to attract some people to assist in a Trek Mod.

If you are interested in the various races, I am trying to type in a little bit on each race at the website (check my signature).

Hope you get a chance to watch more of the show, the detail and storyline was very well done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Wr8th:

Good taste in channels, though I think I'd add on TLC & Discover http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

May 6th, 2002, 11:25 PM

Val: ran into another RCE late Last night. I'll check it out as soon as I can and either isolate it or email you the save game. Shame too, again just as the game was getting interesting (mid-game?) I think it may have to do with the design minister and refit (was the Last time) but not sure...

pathfinder

May 7th, 2002, 01:14 AM

RCE over come, at least temporaryly by turning off the design minister in the LNAW. One thing I notice, both the ShagToth and LNAW are building carriers like crazy BUT no fighters being put into them...

I know the ShagToth have fighters but simply aren't filling the carriers....not sure about the LNAW, didn't look that close...

Captain Kwok

May 7th, 2002, 05:56 AM

Val:

Thanks. I'm hoping to finish off my Geezoid Fleet sometime this month. Hopefully I will actually finish this one as I have enough stray ships already on my computer.

I look forward to the end product of the Bab 5 mod...what's the ETA on the first fully functional Version?

Also, what program(s) have you used to create the new component pictures and such?

[ 07 May 2002: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Val

May 8th, 2002, 03:49 PM

Cpt. Kwok:

Looking foward to the finished product http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Pathfinder:

I'm testing out some new AIs that seem to be doing a bit better, I'll most likely upload within the week http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Everyone:

The new facilities are giving the AI some problems, so I am changing them a little to make the AI work (I would love it if you could tell build queues to work off a family number!!!!).

I've added ship class components for a variety of maint reductions : Civilian -90% maint, Corporate -70% & Military -50%. They are 0 space components that can be put on any ship or base. The down side is that Corporate and Civilian crews are poorly trained in comparison to Military crews and they suffer penalties to their attack and defense. I am testing these with the AI right now.

Other things I am working on: adding more ruins tech (including - Planetary Gun, a few unique weapons, Automation for ships and a few others), Shadow/Vorlon influenced ships, Gaim and Hyach unique techs, crew upgrades for ships/fighters/bases and Station Keeping drives for Bases. Also working on Stations that will be constructed like a Ring/Sphere world, so you can do a project like the Babylon Station and then have it have facilities on it.

Also wanted to thank Simon for the Repair Tug and SRB ideas (among many other ideas he sent).

Finally - does anyone know how to specify a specific star in the systemtypes.txt file? I want to make the Black Hole/Nebula star the blank black mask to make it 'invisible'. Thanks!!!

Val

May 8th, 2002, 04:22 PM

I have a question for y'all (including the lurkers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ):

Since the beginning weapon platforms were going to be removed from this mod - forcing players to rely on satellite and base defenses (and picket ships) to protect the planet. My original reason not to include them was that there was never any episode (or book) that had planetary based defenses that were able to fire into space/orbitting vessels. Usually the defense of a planet was done by ships, bases and satellites. The only notable exception was Epsilon 5 - which will be an available Ruins tech.

As it stands right now, most capital ships can't harm an established planet (as all facilities provide shields) unless they use Planetary or Biological weapons (there are exceptions, such as some Shadow weapons), so capital ships aren't as much a threat to planets (except newly formed colonies).

Recently someone mentioned that they would like to see WPs remain in the mod, and he made some good arguments (which I hope he will type in this forum).

I would like to know what y'all think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

wr8th

May 8th, 2002, 04:37 PM

IMHO, it would seem that a lessened reliance on WPs for planetary protection (especially for new colonies) would mean having a greater dependence on fleet patrols of the other empire rim systems... You can no longer have a rock (Singapore/Hong Kong type) sitting there like an unsinkable gun platform, but rather it forces you to make use of it as a forward staging base for incursions (or threat thereof) of an opposing empire. This will probably elicit a major re-thinking of strategy from the unmodded Version.

PS: looking forward to the release of this mod for Gold. Already downloaded the earlier Version for perusal and am impressed by the scope of this mod. Might even get a B5er friend of mine to buy the game....

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: wr8th ]

Captain Kwok

May 8th, 2002, 04:53 PM

Val,

If you still want to remove the Weapons platforms then maybe you can increase the size of satellites...or even make the weapons platforms into "orbital platforms" (as in ST-DS9) that are capable of delivering a punch to an incoming fleet.

PS - Didn't Earth in one of the Bab 5 shows have extensive missile platforms orbiting the planet?

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Val

May 8th, 2002, 07:08 PM

Wr8th:

Glad you are enjoying and that your friend is considering SE to play the mod (not that there aren't enough reasons to own it anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

As you said, I'd prefer a slightly different strategy than the 'Rock' for planetary defense, and force people to actually use picket lines and defensive ships a bit more.

Cpt. Kwok:

There were a few episodes that showed the defense grid around Earth, but everything was orbital, not planetary based. This can be done with sats and bases - though I do believe sat size needs to go up, as you suggested. A 'DS9' can be achieved by building a Base and arming it as you see fit.

Captain Kwok

May 8th, 2002, 07:46 PM

What I meant by DS9 was the Orbital platforms the Cardassians and Dominion used in a few episodes...they were essential big, big, satellites with lots of power. So, I guess it makes sense just to add a few larger satellite sizes...maybe up to 200-250kT?

Val

May 8th, 2002, 08:49 PM

My misunderstanding http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also, forgot to answer your earlier question: I use mostly DoGA 3 and Paint Shop Pro 7. What are you using?

Suicide Junkie

May 8th, 2002, 08:50 PM

Another option is to give a wider variety of mounts for the satellite weapons.
There could be varying grades of "Siege Mount" weaponry, which cost more resources and space to get more range.

Another good defense should be mines. The very first episode had a colony protected by mines, so mines must be a decent defense.
I believe the only reason why they were breached so quickly was because the control station was destroyed before they could arm the mines.

Captain Kwok

May 8th, 2002, 09:14 PM

I use Moray 3.3 to build the 3D model, POV-Ray to render, and I make the imagemaps in Adobe Photoshop 6 to give the ships detail.

[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Val

May 8th, 2002, 10:57 PM

I couldn't get used to Morray. I need to see someone use it to get the hang of it quicker.

Mines are still important, and (iirc) there are a variety of warheads for them. New mounts need to be made for the entire mod - something else in the works http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

So far the vote seems to be towards removing weapon platforms - or at least not against it.

pathfinder

May 8th, 2002, 11:01 PM

Val: Kewl enough....the proportion modding sure make this veddy interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Suggestion or maybe question in reference to WPs: Since it takes a good long time to build a planet to where it can "afford" to raise some planetary defense if a base is the only way...maybe the "basic" base be a bit cheaper, faster to build but maybe a bit weak??? "course if not, then this means PF may need to REALLY re-think his start strategy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 8th, 2002, 11:10 PM

I've been rethinking the facilities a bit - both to help get a planet started and also to help AI along. I should have some changes soon.

You could also drop mines/sats in orbit when you colonize http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

May 8th, 2002, 11:14 PM

Val: Gotcha...tried that in a "regular" proportions game I have going,...it can work as far as starting a colony off...

Though as one of the other suggested maybe more choices on sizes, etc maybe in order http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

as if ya didn't have enought to do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 8th, 2002, 11:28 PM

More satellite sizes and mounts are definately in order! Both excellent suggestions from SJ and Captain Kwok. As far as things go, those should be among the easier to accomplish. Right up there with fixing spelling errors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'd like to get this mod a little more solid by months end and try a PBW game with as many races as possible - I can dream http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I also still have to add the various levels of ECM/Targetting Comps so the AI doesn't just choose the 'newest' one. Must also add in armor usage for the AI.

I should also have some 'end game' pics from Rambie soon. So far he has sent a cool 'human dead' pic, shouldn't be too long. The next patch should also have his new EA updates.

Val

May 9th, 2002, 07:56 PM

If anyone here is interested in seeing the B5 flight sim game come into being (the one Sierra was going to make), visit the pole at the following URL and let your voice be heard:

B5 Game Survey (http://gamesurvey.radiusco.com/index.php)

Thanks!

Val

May 9th, 2002, 10:59 PM

Has anyone tried a game as one of the B5 Ancient races? Using the Kirishiac, Shadow, Torvalus or Vorlon Racial Ability along with the B5 Ancients Racial Ability?

I'm curious how well they are working, and also if the special fighter cockpits are working. Most of them feature a built in Neural Net ability, to simulate the command ship controling the fighters. The Kirshiac feature fighters that are meant to ram into other vessels.

pathfinder

May 9th, 2002, 11:23 PM

I set the Vorlons up but really haven't played them exclusively (just checked on a 1 - 2 turn basis to see how they were doing). Guess I couold check them out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Suicide Junkie

May 9th, 2002, 11:24 PM

I also still have to add the various levels of ECM/Targetting Comps so the AI doesn't just choose the 'newest' one. Must also add in armor usage for the AI.Dosen't it just choose the most powerful one?
IE: Basic ECM VIII?
The basic ECM provides 57% of the maximum ECM available. You may want to get it to add the advanced ECM as well, but the elite may not be worth it for the AI.

Val

May 10th, 2002, 04:12 PM

All:
I have attached a zip with corrections for the facilities (had to change them a bit to make AI work), corrected the AI to use these facilities, fixed a few spelling errors and added a few components (4 new Mine warheads, ship class maint modifier - civilian, corporate, military, ancient). I believe the rest of the files were in the Last update, but I reincluded them just in case.

Update051002.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1021039882.zip)

Pathfinder:
The Shaodws or Torvalus may be more interesting, as almost all of their weapons and bonus tech are in - where the Vorlons are missing many of theirs:(

SJ:
It will pick the highest - as you said - but I would like the larger AI warships to choose to use what a human player would, to make it as challenging as possible.

[ 10 May 2002, 15:14: Message edited by: Val ]

pathfinder

May 10th, 2002, 10:53 PM

Val: Okies, I'll try Shadows or Torvalus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 10th, 2002, 11:30 PM

Thanks for testing them!

In the more finalized Version, ancients will suffer from a LOW - LOW - LOW (almost non-existant) birthrate, so every ancient life will be a valuable commodity (I reset the minimums on Reproduction so they can go down to 10%). They will get some production bonuses for their homeworld (some special facilities and such) though so they can build a bit faster.

The next big thing I have to incorporate is SJ's Nomad/Pirate traits and components so I can add the Raider's and the Nomadic Races.

Have a good weekend y'all!

pathfinder

May 11th, 2002, 08:42 PM

Current game: morale for Shadows is indifferent which means that their % reproduction is 0%. Really hinders them IMHO.

Update; Fix to that problem was to send in the troops to keep the unwashed masses in-line http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 13, 2002, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Fyron

May 11th, 2002, 09:50 PM

What is the point of a Medium Ancient Reactor? The Light Ancient Reactor makes 700 supplies per kiloton, whereas the Medium one makes only 533.3 per kiloton. They cost the same per kiloton. The light ones have more damage resistance than structure, and the medium ones have less damage resistance than structure. I can see no purpose to using medium reactors over light reactors.

Also, if I upgrade my Space Station with a Ship Yard I on it, it gets replaced by a Shipboard Space Yard I.

Another interesting thing: I gave my Space Stations Civilian Ship comps, and I have 10% racial maint. red. They have negative maint. values, thereby generating resources. Was this intentional?

Suggestion: Place the different "ship type" components in different families, so that they all show up and they don't get replaced by unwanted ones when performing upgrades.

[ May 13, 2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

pathfinder

May 13th, 2002, 10:54 PM

Imperator: In the Shadows test I am doing the medium then heavy reactor (ancient) come into play when engaged in combat the additional supplies sure help with beam weapons, especially the heavy molecular slicers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . They hold up better that the fission/fusion ones...IMHO anyways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PDF

May 14th, 2002, 11:55 AM

IIRC the current B5 mod is for SE4 1.49, pre Gold...
Is there an ETA for Gold Version ?

Val

May 14th, 2002, 03:25 PM

As PF said, the increased amount of supplies are meant to help the larger ancient vessels through the long battles (this will be even more important once converted to Gold). The amount generated per/kt may be off - as I had to adjust the numbers several times in the previous releases, odds are I may have made an error, as each level up is meant to be an improvement:(

As to the bases negative maint rate, those components were supposed to be for 'ships only' - I accidently left in the Ship\Base line. Though, if this is actually generating resources... we may have accidently discovered a way to make resource generating components (when coupled with a vessel that has a built in maint reduction)!

I don't see how the Shipboard Yard can replace the Space Yard as they are specified as either Base or Ship, not both. Anyone else have this problem?

If I make the various "ship type" components different families, then I can't restrict a ship to only 1 per vessel, or am I wrong?

This mod is still 'pre-gold', once this mod is tested and working reasonably well, then it will be upgraded to Gold. There is actually a test game being setup between 4 players right now that will hopefully determine the mods playability and balance. I do have some new AI I have to post, along with some minor add-ons (like the new Sat sizes and such). I am hoping to have a good solid Version of this mod by June, maybe run a PBW test and then go Gold by July... but I've always been a dreamer;)

pathfinder

May 14th, 2002, 04:35 PM

Val: I haven't noticed that spaceship yard vs space yard bit yet, though I haven't really built them due to the cost (resources and time). Guess I could set up a new game and see if I can duplicate this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

pathfinder

May 14th, 2002, 07:19 PM

Oh the horrors http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif : the EA just lost several fleets totaly about 50 ships in a "backdoor" black-hole system into the Shadows region in space....all they lost was a medium troop transport (with the Shrapnel Legion on board {oh my! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ] and a satellite layer....

Seems the Shadows may need to play hardball with the EA... hehe

[ May 14, 2002, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Phoenix-D

May 14th, 2002, 07:36 PM

"I don't see how the Shipboard Yard can replace the Space Yard as they are specified as either Base or Ship, not both. Anyone else have this problem?

If I make the various "ship type" components different families, then I can't restrict a ship to only 1 per vessel, or am I wrong?"

If the family number is the same, they WILL upgrade. (or downgrade). So make sure they have different family numbers and you should be OK..

If the ship type components are different families, yes, you can't restrict them. However, check to see if you can restrict them even with the same family number- because I think the "one per ship" limit only works for *identical* components.

If not- if it's restricted by family- you can still force them to display seperately by putting components of differing family numbers in between. Not sure what effect this has on upgrading.

Phoenix-D

Fyron

May 14th, 2002, 07:40 PM

Pathfinder:
Imperator: In the Shadows test I am doing the medium then heavy reactor (ancient) come into play when engaged in combat the additional supplies sure help with beam weapons, especially the heavy molecular slicers . They hold up better that the fission/fusion ones...IMHO anyways
Of course they are better than fission/fusion ones. The light ancient reactors are just so much more powerful than the medium ones.

Val:
Yeah, there probably is a typo for the reactors. I had assumed that that was the purpose for the larger reactors (that, or just increased efficiency).

Though, if this is actually generating resources... we may have accidently discovered a way to make resource generating components (when coupled with a vessel that has a built in maint reduction)!
Actually, SJ discovered that a long time ago; it was in an old Version of P&N as a way of allowing Nomads to grow.

If I make the various "ship type" components different families, then I can't restrict a ship to only 1 per vessel, or am I wrong?

Good point.

Val

May 14th, 2002, 11:35 PM

PF:

Ouch, sounds like the Shadows are working pretty well on a power level;)

Pheonix-D:

So, if components are in the same family, but are specified as Base OR Ship, they will overlap due to the family being the same?

Putting a different component inbetween the various types is a good idea!

IF:

Appologies to SJ, should have known if there was something to find, SJ would have found it first;)

When I get a chance I'll check over the reactor ratios.

pathfinder

May 15th, 2002, 07:04 AM

*scratches head*

Imperator: More powerful? Guess I read things differently. Bottom line: light reactor has 3500 supplies, medium 8000...at least in the Version I have. If you have Shadow specific weapons you'll need every drop of supplies you can get, regardless of other characteristics..

Val: hehe, the black hole is what got those fleets and my 2 ships....though I did have a smallish (12 ships) fleet take on a 20+ fleet of Hyach and rip them without a loss. My fleet had a cruiser, 2 light cruiser, coupla destoryers, rest frigates...I tell ya those molecular slicers will tear butt...ya just hope ya got enough supplies (big enough reactor) to Last 30 combat turns...

[ May 15, 2002, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

PDF

May 15th, 2002, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Val:
(snip)
This mod is still 'pre-gold', once this mod is tested and working reasonably well, then it will be upgraded to Gold. There is actually a test game being setup between 4 players right now that will hopefully determine the mods playability and balance. I do have some new AI I have to post, along with some minor add-ons (like the new Sat sizes and such). I am hoping to have a good solid Version of this mod by June, maybe run a PBW test and then go Gold by July... but I've always been a dreamer;)Is there a technical issue preventing the mod from working with Gold ? Did someone try ?
I'm not sure about it, but it seems that only trivial changes to files are needed, provided you don't use the new drones - problem is that I don't know them ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
Am I wrong ?

pathfinder

May 15th, 2002, 07:42 AM

PDF: patience .... Val is doing this a step at a time, getting at least the major bugs out the way . he (others?) decided to start with 1.49 first. I accidently put them in gold when I first started testing and they did't work there....

one thing to remember is that this mod has totally different tech trees and components to get "right" and implement in the AI files...a real tough thing to do IMHO.

[ May 15, 2002, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

pathfinder

May 15th, 2002, 07:51 AM

Val: baseship doesn't have a pic to use, I get an error message (program can't find one).

also, is there any way to replace the dreadnought pic....?? get pics for the infantry?

Shadow mega weapons leads no where...intended?

Val

May 15th, 2002, 11:14 AM

PDF:

SJ could guide you on converting the mod to Gold if you would like (and if he has the time). I think there were also a few threads that explained how to convert it over. The only reason we haven't done it is that we wanted to focus on making sure everthing worked in 1.49 before advancing it to Gold - to avoid having to make repairs in both at the same time - too much!

PF:

There are other Shadow and ancient weapons on the way, I just bought a book about the Ancients and it includes a bunch of new weapons that I will be adding in my next round of weapons.

Never realized the Shadow Baseship was missing. The Dreadnought pic should be the 'death cloud', though that needs to be changed. The Shadow shipset does need a bit of work, anyone up for fixing it?

PDF

May 15th, 2002, 11:36 AM

Val,
I dloaded your mod and just looked at the files -and wooohoo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ! it's the most impressive one I saw : superb graphics, new sounds, very rich tech and components, with lots of race-specifics, all this with a real SciFi background, I'd really want to play this !

Obviously I just can admire the files , lol, as I'm stuck with my Gold Version, and so am quite angered by *not* being able to play this where non-Gold owners can ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

So I'll have a look at converting, if SJ just can be kind enough to guide me, I'm not too dumb computer-wise http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thx to all !

Val

May 15th, 2002, 10:01 PM

I've been working on a Ruins Tech that will 'stabilize' a star. Basically it is building a spher/ring world, but it is cheaper and has almost no space on it. I've attached a zip with the 'test' bits (you would have to add each piece to the relevant file in your mod). The only problem I am having is that when it builds the 'Balancer' it does not mask the BMP of the planet, so the star appears to disappear in the game. Anyone have any solutions?

StellarBalancer.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1021492765.zip)

Suicide Junkie

May 15th, 2002, 10:13 PM

I've ideas on what to do for the various levels of active armor, but I just haven't had time to type them up yet. This weekend, unless we go to the cottage:).

The only problem I am having is that when it builds the 'Balancer' it does not mask the BMP of the planet, so the star appears to disappear in the game. Anyone have any solutions?Make the Star Stabilizer planet look like a Star? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Say something like "The stabilizers moderate the fusion reactions in the star, and locking its energy output to that of an average G-type star" (yellow, sunlike)
Then your stabilizer planet image can look like a yellow star with a thin spherical grid of energy beams around it, or something similarily cool looking.

I would reccommend making this stabilizer facility have a limit of zero people and zero facilities.
When a colony ship lands, they are just taking control of the automated stations, and will get strategic vision from the place. The place is already fulfilling its primary purpose (saving the lives of everyone in the system), and dosen't need to be inhabitable.

Val

May 15th, 2002, 10:28 PM

I was thinking along the same lines (using a star for the image), but I like your description about why it turns Yellow and the pic idea:)

I will drop the pop down, but I was thinking that 1 facility would be cool - like Education Center or Archeoligical Site. What do y'all think?

Suicide Junkie

May 15th, 2002, 10:39 PM

If you're trying to stabilize your star before it blows up in three years, I don't think you want to be building any more than is the bare minimum. Why build a city?

What might be more useful is a series of stellar objects between ringworlds and planet stabilizers.

If it is an emergency, throw up a stabilizer. If you have more time, you can build something more complex, expensive and more productive. But the bare-minimum, "save our butts" option should not have any frills http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 15th, 2002, 10:48 PM

Good enough argument, I will make the changes in the final Version unless the grand masses think it should be otherwise.

Can you actually make it so Pop & Facilities = 0 without it giving an error?

Suicide Junkie

May 15th, 2002, 10:52 PM

As long as you don't make it negative, it should be fine.
I tried making really tiny planets way back when, and it worked reasonably well.

geoschmo

May 15th, 2002, 11:01 PM

One thing I never got around to testing when I was playing with this idea a while back. Is there any way to "Undo" a created planet. Do planet destroying weapons have any effect on them? Or Star destroyers? If not then creating a balancer would be effectivley removing any possibility of ever having a ringworld or sphere world in that system in the future. if planet and star destroyers have no effect on these, then about the only way I can think of to get rid of one would be to have it in a binary system and blow up the other sun.

Geoschmo

Val

May 15th, 2002, 11:08 PM

I would guess a "destroy planet" component would work, since it is based off planet size and the Balancer is "Tiny", so should be susceptible to any planet killer. The question I have though, would the star then resume it's countdown to destruction? I would say no, but would be cool if it did.

pathfinder

May 16th, 2002, 12:42 AM

Val: Yeah the Shadow dreadnought is a blurred cloud looking pic...sheesh, not much that I can find other than the "Battlecrab" ship model (SE IV battleship for Shadows)...not sure what would work. Be nice if the destroyer, light cruiser, colony ship were more Shadow-like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

all I have is DOGA L-3, not sure if models by that would fit-in....

Val

May 16th, 2002, 01:21 AM

PDF:
Glad you like what you see so far, it's required the work of quite a few people to get it to this point and there is still much to do! You may want to post a new topic and ask for help with converting the mod to Gold, or do a search (if it is working again).

All:

Below is the latest update.

It includes:

1.49.27 - Revised Satellite sizes and added Huge Satellites. Renamed Civ Station to Relay Station. Revised facilities to work better with AI. Added ship maint adjustment classes (Civilian, Corporate, Military, Ancient). Fixed star error in Black Hole/Storm/Nebula systems (looks much better). Added 3 new cultures. Added more ancient ruins techs (5 total). Added new mine warheads.

Update051502.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1021479297.zip)

Even though new Ruin techs have been added, the actual coresponding components/facilities/ships still need to be added.

Val

May 16th, 2002, 01:51 AM

SJ:

Know you've been busy, but wanted to know if you got any further on the armor/shields? Thanks!

geoschmo

May 16th, 2002, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by Val:
I would guess a "destroy planet" component would work, since it is based off planet size and the Balancer is "Tiny", so should be susceptible to any planet killer. The question I have though, would the star then resume it's countdown to destruction? I would say no, but would be cool if it did.Ok, I did a little test. The ringworld or sphereworld can be destroyed, as long as you have a tectonic bomb that can handle the size as you said Val. However, the result is an asteroid field. The star is gone.

Geoschmo

EDIT: OK, here's something interesting. If you destroy the "Balancer", you have asteroids, and then since the created planet is now gone, you can then make a star in the center sector where the asteroids are. You could then make a ringworlds or sphereworld around that star, and make a planet out of the asteroids, and have two planets in that sector. Or I suppose you could make another balancer, blow it up, make another star, make another balancer....How many planets do you want? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A way to get somethign from nothing.

[ May 16, 2002, 04:25: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Suicide Junkie

May 16th, 2002, 06:20 AM

Fascinating.

You aren't quite getting something for nothing, since you are using piles of your stored resources to build these things, but its very close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Perhaps in a finite resources game it would work better: your would be able to recover the resources used to build the world, and then use the planet for intel or research...

Gil Hamilton

May 16th, 2002, 07:10 AM

Gees; and here I was, debating how many supply boxes to put on my destroyers... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Val- I've done 5 ships- Large and small carrier, small transport, colonizer, and escort. Not sure what would be a good race for them though. If you'd like to see the ones done, let me know where to put them and in what format. (I guess 48x48 .bmp would be best , eh?)

PDF

May 16th, 2002, 09:52 AM

Sorry to interrupt your cosmic considerations, some low level questions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif :
* Are there some b5 maps or scens that go with the mod ? Where ?
* Any chance to have more doc for the mod ? I mean tech tree, background, special races techs, new components...
* Can you give some links to good B5 sites ? I'm not versed in B5 background, but the mod look soooo good !

Thanks !

I did begin conVersion to of the mod to Gold, seems easy... Think of completing this soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif !

About this, SJ,
can you just tell me if I'm right with just changing those files :
* Settings.txt : adding new lines as per Gold reqs
* Components : updating vehicle/target types Ships/Bases... to new types (incl drones)
* AI files, as per capnq receipe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Are there others ?

Val,
Do you have plans to include drones in the mod, once it is converted to Gold ?

pathfinder

May 16th, 2002, 12:24 PM

VAL: AI isn't loading carriers with fighters. LNAW and EA in current game.

PDF:
* Are there some b5 maps or scens that go with the mod ? Where ? None that I know of.

* Any chance to have more doc for the mod ? I mean tech tree, background, special races techs, new components... Val will have to answer this one but remember---these are still being developed/implemented....

as for background, I'd recommend going to the mod web site for a start, I believe the URL is in Val's signature...

[ May 16, 2002, 11:28: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

PDF

May 16th, 2002, 02:06 PM

Ah ah, DONE !!! I've a working B5 mod for GOLD, after a paltry 1h30 of file updating !
In my previous post I forgot about this VehicleSize.txt file that now has 2 entries for bitmaps, but this was quickly corrected !

I've to test more but the game looks like it works normally ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Will upload the Version soon !

Val

May 16th, 2002, 05:09 PM

Geoschmo:

Thanks for testing that. Is there a way to set a new planet size for below "Tiny" then we can set a special weapon that will only destroy these "balancers".

Gil:

Sure, love to see them! Post them here for all to enjoy or send them to me in a private message (or to b5mod@yhoo.com). 128 x 128 is best for the large pic, 36 x 36 for the overhead. Thanks!

PDF:

Map: There is a map in the mod, though it is incomplete. It does have all the JumpGates and systems named, but many of the systems are currently 'empty'. The ultimate goal is to use this map to create a scenario based around the time of the show will tech levels and colonies appropriate.

Documentation: On the website (as Pathfinder said, see my signature) there is a list of the races with descriptions - this will evolve as the races are added. A tech tree is something I was also planning on doing, though I am not sure when. The components will all have descriptions in them, so that will have to do (when we're done, maybe we can go through the components file and seperate all the descriptions or something.

Gold ConVersion: Thanks, let me know what sort of trouble you run into! Looking foward to the upload. Try to track the changes you made so as newer files are released you can easily update.

Drones: Drones do have a place with some races, so they will appear, just not sure if they will be restricted by race or free for all.

Pathfinder:

Was the AI loading the fighters in the past Versions? Damn...

Gil Hamilton

May 16th, 2002, 08:35 PM

Here they are... I'm not pleased with the rendering prog. I'm using, so the colors may change later. Also, I seem to not be able to get the ships in the same exact orientation. Any suggestions or gentle criticizms are most welcome.

http://www.gev.cc/SEIV/Ships/GEV/GEV_Ships.html

Link to a page might work better...

[ May 16, 2002, 20:51: Message edited by: Gil Hamilton ]

Val

May 16th, 2002, 10:54 PM

They look good, and might be suitable for the Markab, Grome or Hurr (I'll check the others and see if they have ship styles similar).

Could render them in DoGA 2, easier to get a consistant angle.

Suicide Junkie

May 17th, 2002, 02:04 AM

Like I said before, Goldifying is pretty easy once you've got a 1.49 mod.

FWIR,
- Add the two lines to settings.txt
- Search-replace the allowed vehicle type and the weapon target types
- Replace Bitmap name:= with Primary bitmap name and secondary bitmap name.
- Replace quadranttypes.txt

And that should be pretty much all, except for tweaks to support new gold features.

Such as the Organic armor / combat repairs thing.

Fyron

May 17th, 2002, 02:22 AM

Imperator: More powerful? Guess I read things differently. Bottom line: light reactor has 3500 supplies, medium 8000...at least in the Version I have. If you have Shadow specific weapons you'll need every drop of supplies you can get, regardless of other characteristics..Umm... you can place multiple reactors on one ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 3 Light Ancient Reactors make more power (2500 more, to be precise) than 1 Medium Ancient Reactor, for the same cost and tonnage.

[ May 17, 2002, 01:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

pathfinder

May 17th, 2002, 03:25 AM

Val: yeah, Last test with Last Version Hyach and EA both had carriers and did not fill them with fighters..

Imperator: hehe, understood...I prefer to reserve the slots for other things...never though about adding in 3 little ones for the medium....*shrug*...

PDF

May 17th, 2002, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Like I said before, Goldifying is pretty easy once you've got a 1.49 mod.

FWIR,
- Add the two lines to settings.txt
- Search-replace the allowed vehicle type and the weapon target types
- Replace Bitmap name:= with Primary bitmap name and secondary bitmap name.
- Replace quadranttypes.txt

And that should be pretty much all, except for tweaks to support new gold features.

Such as the Organic armor / combat repairs thing.Thx SJ, that's just what I did, but I overlooked Quadranttypes.txt w/o having any problems (but surely I won't have the new types!).
I just didn't think it was so easy ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now I will make some more test and post a Goldified B5 1.49.27 this evening.

Val,
I looked at the AI files and they seem pretty bare : no special designs, and no specific research for major races...
As I mostly play solo (even if I have 2 ongoing PBWs !) I'd glad to have good AIs !

As for facilities there are many descriptions lacking making it difficult to see what they do (for example Mining Colony doesn't report that it generates Minerals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif , and many facilities generate Planetary Shields without info..)

Modifying these files is pretty easy, how can I help - if you need help ... ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 17, 2002, 15:35: Message edited by: PDF ]

pathfinder

May 17th, 2002, 12:30 PM

Val: I checked a minute ago (maybe 50-60 turns later) and the LNAW and Vorlons are putting fighters on their carriers but the EA aren't--they still haven't designed one! Maybe something with when they build/design in an AI file? *scratches head* The AI's all have the same design file...??? So why aren't the EA designing fighters? *pathfinder staggers off muttering, "glad ah don't have ta figger that out!" *

PDF

May 17th, 2002, 05:53 PM

Me again, some questions :
- What's the rationale behind the "non euclidian" cargo, with 75 KT comps holding 400 KT cargo ?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif
BTW, why not having smaller comps (say 25Kt instead of 75), they would be easier to manage on small hulls...
- Now that I have a goldified B5 I can change population weight : what values do you think would fit ? A standard 5 kt/M or a proportionesque 100 ? Beware, this as a HUGE impact on colonization process.

And a suggestion :
- Why not adding DevNull/Derek's or PvK's mounts in your mod ? They are more varied and I love Spinal mounts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Val

May 17th, 2002, 07:00 PM

PDF:

Gold: Good to hear the Gold conVersion is going so easy:)

AI: I wanted to make the current AI solid, then it is a more simple mater to tailor it for each individual race - mostly choosing to use their racial specific weapons and tech research.

Facilities: I'll get more descriptions in. The Planetary Shield description is intentionally left out as the are not really supposed to be planetary shields. I had added them to prevent ships from easily damaging a world that is established with non-planetary weapons. All the planetary weapons will bypass shields. This means a little fleet of destroyers armed with Particle Beams won't be able to hurt the average colony.

Cargo: I made cargo in bundles of 75kt to encourage use of Cargo ships. 75 was also used because it is the smallest number of required cargo for a ship. The reason why it is 'bigger' is that with external pods, only a portion of the pod is 'in the ship'. I look at the 75kt as more of a 'Structure Point' system, so you spend 75 structure points to get X# of cargo tonnage. There are also alternate cargo components for fighters, troops, satellites and mines which have various costs and ailities. I tried to make the abilities on each 'container' more desirable for a specific task so people would choose them over choosing standard cargo pods to carry combat units.

Colonists: I was thinking of changing pop weight to something in between the two, either 25 or 50. What do the rest of you think?

Mounts: There were special mounts way back in the early Version of the mod, and it is on my list of things to update. The Spinal Mount won't make it in though - as there is are a few Spinal Weapons in their already.

Pathfinder:

Glad to see that at least some races are doing what they are supposed to! I'll work on making EA/Hyach do it this weekend.